Is the internet "hurting" social interaction and skill levels?

[Retroboy]

There's all sorts of ways to interpret the topic, so I'll try and be clear.

The pervasiveness of new electronic interactive media for both business and pleasure has obviously changed the way many of us interact with others. But take away all the non-web stuff like cell phones, inexpensive gaming consoles and text messaging, and look at the online component only.

With the creation of easy and simple online interaction in chat rooms, game lobbies, MMO's, forums, messageware and other virtual media, is there a danger that the younger generation(s) will have an incomplete level of experience in face-to-face personal communication? Is this skill even important these days, or is a virtual friend just as good as a personal friend that you can physically touch?

Discuss. I'll post my own opinion a bit later.

-- Retro

[Kratos]

MMOs can hurt peoples social interaction, because they focus to much on this virtual "world". But instant messenger like icq on the other hand further improve communicatiion with friends, that life far away! It`s way more simple to hold contact with a daily little chat, as only seeing each other once a month!

People with already "sick" social capabilities "can" (must not) lose themselves completly in a MMO! :bonnet:

[Statuskuo]

No. Although I frequent many forums and socialize in online multiplayer, I still think I have the necessary social skills to deal with people irl. Right now, I'm at uni orientation, and despite all my foruming and whatnot I have been as successful as everyone else in making friends.

[Tails]

Is this skill even important these days, or is a virtual friend just as good as a personal friend that you can physically touch?
While keeping connected through the virtual world is a good way to preserve a friendship, there is absolutely no substitute for friends and family to be in the actual physical presence of one another, and that much should be obvious enough.

[Kratos]

Indeed, also this "skill" will always be very important! Because it heavly influences how good we can bargain, convince other people or influence them in any possible way!

[Vakarian]

I believe that it DOES harm social interaction as far in as that people are not getting face to face experiance, which imo is vital to the "growing up" stage of children/teenagers.

Anyone can talk online, and we create alter-egos for ourselves, where as in Real life you just can't do that as effectivly as people are able to see if you are lying or exaggerating. Its not inherently bad but its not particularly good either.

[Beregonds]

I believe in alot of cases, yes. But after uses of some things like forums, it can lead to a better articulation of what you want, or your standpoints on thoughts. But things like the blueberry's can be the death of the human race :D.

[Retroboy]

Nitpick:we create alter-egos for ourselvesNot all of us do. My online ego - or is 'persona' a better word? - is remarkably similar to my ego IRL.

Here's my thought, and what sparked the thread: my writing skills are considerably more advanced because I participate heavily in online discourse on this forum and other venues. And I learn a lot. So the appeal is definitely there.

But sometimes (and not all the time) after a bit of a marathon session of several hours online surfing or whatever, I get off the computer and feel a bit empty. I could have been playing with the Retrotykes, getting some work done around the house, or gone out with a friend for a beer and a chat to get my "social fix". That's not to say I WOULD have done that if there was no internet. Perhaps I'd have read a good book or sketched a picture or something instead. But it can occasionally feel like lost time where I'm not really growing at all.

When I look at the number of hours many younger people these days rack up in their online pursuits, I have to wonder if they're going to grow up, for lack of a better word, "emptier".

-- Retro

[Tiresias]

hmmm with more and more webcams this might actually become less of a problem. That said if it makes people socially inept it might also allow socially inept people to socialise to some extent so I think it may even out to some extent :P

[Alex Drake]

Its harmful up to the point that it becomes a crutch for the lack of a well-rounded social career. it also cheapens human contact in the same ways that phones [can]. in the right context, it enriches, but in lives full of excess and lack of control, it often does as much harm as it does good.

Case in point; myspace.com

[Kapyrna]

The internet is a tool. The problem is in the people that use it wrong.

With that said, I spend much of my free time in front of a computer. I use it for communication and school, primarily, but it also serves as music and photo storage and the occasional DoW DC LAN parties. I don't consider myself socially inept, but I see a lot of this on the web. I wish for the day when IRC is cam-based and I can laugh face-to-face at some of the webdolts out there (no offense, #hw, it's mostly elsewhere). As Retroboy pointed out, my e-persona is very similar to my RL-persona, and I talk more with old friends online that in person and on the phone, so the internet is not socially detrimental to me. Unfortunately, I seem to be a rarer case.

I'm not emptier as a result of the internet, I'm just filled with different stuff.

[Kratos]

Yeah, also a lot people use voice communication for mmos like WoW! Btw, with the upcoming patch WoW will have a build in voice communication! When you have to talk to the other person, you will behave a lot more normal as just by typing!

[Paladin]

I would actually argue that the Internet is a positive influence on social interaction in that it, particularly email and forum use, encourages the development of critical thinking and communication skills, much in the way that old-fashioned snail-mail correspondence did.

[Kapyrna]

much in the way that old-fashioned snail-mail correspondence did
Just quicker, and with slightly less expectations for each correspondence.

[Zepherian]

It goes both ways depending on the individual imo. Otherwise outgoing people might get caught up in internet addictions and leave their social circle, introverts might find friends and new relationships via the web, which disguises their shortcomings. In depth studies would have to be done to get the proportions though.

[Paladin]

Well, the pace of it is necessary, the entire reason that snail-mail correspondence died out was that the pace of it rendered it irrelevant in the modern world.

[Ammon Ra]

It does hinder the development of personal face-to-face interactions and stuff like that, but on the other hand, people can be in constant communication with their friends, with their family, and so forth. If anything, people like that have a larger social network than traditional socializing because they can meet and interact with anyone who is on-line.

They're trading in one form of social skills for another set. that's how i see it. People from the traditional social network find it hard to understand and interact with the virtual social network. Similarly, internet-socialising people may find it more difficult to cope with the traditional way (going to a pub, concerts, mass-gatherings, parties, etc). Some might be good at dealing with both the new and the "old" aka face-to-face.

Inspired by the recent CNN future summit, maybe? :D

[Paladin]

Well, I would say that face-to-face relations, old model socializing, is actually rather shallow anyway. It's mostly a matter of learning to deal with a bunch of people you don't really like or share any common interests with. In short, it's the skill of talking about nothing so that your differences of opinion and lack of common interests is never brought to the forefront.

Whereas on the Internet one tends to associate with people who do share a common interest, because physical location is no longer a factor.

[naradaman]

That's very insightful paladin.

Anybody can get along with people they like. I've always admired my older brother's (what I see as) amazing social skills. Now that I think about it, that mainly comprises of making conversation with people you don't know.

Myself, I don't think internet has hindered me one bit.

[Alliance]

Kratos, I really disagree with your first statement about MMOs. while playing an MMO you have to be very socially aware of your surroundings and happenings if you want to become anything close to a good player. You learn people management skills (try running a 25 man raid in WoW), social skills (finding 25 people you can trust to run such a hard raid) and person skills to raise a guild.
On the other side, you could live your whole life as a blue collar worker, just moving crates in a warehouse and living your life with your childhood friends.

I'm pointing out extremes, but I think you get my point. MMOs when not taken to extremes, which are unhealthy on a completely different level, can be very helpful to a persons social skills and adaption.

[WhiteGulls]

No. No no no no no. Not true.

I have a group of friends. They like to play WoW. They /met/ on WoW. Almost every night of the week, they meet up and hang out at a local Starbucks. I find it amazingly hard to believe that with things like that happening, aside from the people who are amazingly socially awkward, the internet is killing friendships. It's just... It's not a good replacement for face time, really, it isn't.

[Shin]

It's all positive.

Whatever you lose due to "opportunity cost" (ie: staying online instead of going out) is more than made up for by the more pervasive means of interacting with people. I consider all forms of modern messaging as a product of the internet.

[Qwaar-Jet]

Due to various reasons, I can't leave the house that often, so I don't get to socialize face-to-face that often, so Online interactions such as the social aspect of EVE have allowed me to still be social and keep those skills alive. Without the net, I would just be a hermit in the house, thanks to the net, I can still claim to be somewhat sociable.

Following on from EVE, i've found a lot of the relationships i've forged in EVE are closer and generally better than a lot of the "real life" friendships i've had, so I don't see any negatives.

[Beregonds]

To be a well accomplished in WoW you had to have somewhat of a social skill, applying for raiding guilds was like applying for a job on my server ;).

[SpinDizzy]

\/\/ha7 aR3 yu0 alls yapp1ng ab00t? lulz noobies

[The Collector]

Constructive social interaction is usually a plus. Developing the skill of working with ad hoc groups ("pick up groups" in MMOs and scrambled teams in FPS), and learning to work in a coordinated fashion with people other than those you have to be in the same room with (clans and guilds). I'm sure in the future with telecommuting we'll be getting used to working with people who aren't in the same room as we are.

But the web has it's consequences. It may lead to people accumulating a huge buddy list but maintaining an otherwise tenuous social depth with each, which isn't particularly fulfilling or intellectually stimulating.

[Paladin]

I find the opposite is true Collector... I have vastly deeper and more meaningful friendships online than in RL, because it's far easier to find someone you can reveal yourself to completely in cyberspace. There's less need to effect a persona, in my experience, or to try and pretend to be "normal". It's far easier to find persons who are compatible with your particular mindset and quirks, and therefore I tend to find people I can be far more open with.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Heh. This reminds me of a book that Alan Dean Foster wrote: You can learn rote stuff from a computer at home, so school should teach critical thinking, social skills, and such.

[Malarky]

The INETERNET. Double edged sword no? You can use it to send Email to friends around the world (a brother in Iraq for me), talk to them over messenger programs for hours as compared to running up your phone bill or you can use the internet to become a recluse. Had a friend once who would rather play WoW than go meet a hot japanese chick another buddy of mine set him up with. WTF!! :donny:

To be a well accomplished in WoW you had to have somewhat of a social skill, applying for raiding guilds was like applying for a job on my server .

It's like that on alot of servers. The guild im in for example has only one rule 'Don't be a douche'. I've kicked a lot of people for being... maladjusted? I don't care how good you play WoW you refuse to get along with other guildmates you get the boot. While a lot of other big raiding guilds their social dynamic is a lot like a high school. Sure they have a lot of skilled people but a lot of those people are... morons or just plain assholes.

EDIT.
I'd like to remind everyone the internet is not a big truck... it's a series of tubes.

[ChienAboyeur]

The opening post seems to me slightly off target, mixing two separate issues: communication skills and RL/VL issues.

On the internet, you use your communication skills and at a high rate, higher rate than many other means .Many times, you do not have to wait for the other's action to developp your own. Initiating an action is easy on the internet, getting anyone in the thick of the communication activity quicker. And you can go deeper in improving the communication skills because you are in total control of the flow of your own speech. You do not have to wait for another one point of view to be finished with before you deliver yours.

The internet is an excellent ground to train your communication skills: it is immediate, it is open 24/24, there is food for all tastes: most of the time, it is communicating for communicating with no serious involvement behind the stuff.

Two consequences I am for underlining: the difference between socializing with face to face people/virtual people and the interactivity.

Separate from the communication skills.

In real life, a good communication skill help to define your friends and your enemies, with solid consequences: you can count on your friends and have better to guard from your enemies. On the internet, the deal is different or made virtual. Generally, you will not be able to rely on your virtual friends save for virtual matters and you do not have to protect from your enemies save for virtual matters.
It voids the communication skill of any concrete end. In this regard, it can harm someone with good communications skills who would have it better to use it in real life rather than wasting it on the internet.

The interactivity is another face of the deal. Now anyone is more or less able to interact with any kind of speech, whereas in real life, such opportunity does not exist.
You cannot interact for example with a president's speech even if you are a direct witness to it (save of course you are accredited for doing such a thing) etc...

In real life, there are constructions to allow breaths in the flow of a speech, handed down by traditional ways. It does not exist on the internet where anyone can immediately intervene. Actually the internet and the online chat and stuff are very opposite to any attempt to contemplation, to the listening, learn, assimilating sequence. On the internet, you have to participate at once.

The internet is a much much denser ground to exert communications skills (by the way, Retro, by excluding the other ways of communicating carried by the internet, you have created a biais) and it comes at the expense of some other social skills like contemplating, patient listening etc...

[Retroboy]

The internet is a much much denser ground to exert communications skillsIf I'm interpreting your word "dense" correctly, I disagree - face-to-face communication is much more dense. The complete collection of communication skills that we have at our disposal is more than just reading, thinking fast, and typing fast. Anyone that is a good communicator in person also knows how to read body language, understand how to interact with a group at once, use their perceptual vision, start their own contribution at a correct pause in the flow, look empathetic, detect emotional undercurrents, modulate their voice, and make themselves appear acceptable and appealing to their audience. That's a lot of management to do at once, and the internet is a lot more forgiving if you slip up.

Also - forums are on the list, and are different from other forms of internet communication such as chat. You don't get a "do-over" if you are talking to someone and slip up in RL. The only edit button we have access to is an apology.

-- Retro

[ChienAboyeur]

As I wrote, the opening post is creating a biais by excluding other means of communication carried by the internet. You refer to communication skills involved in oral cases.
Same could go for people valuing more the written communication skills than oral skills.
It is not by writting letters or stuff like that that you learn how to read body language etc...

Obviously, written communication skills are different from oral communication skills.
In this regard, it would be more a topic about oral communication skills vs written communicatin skills.

I am not sure about handling and behaving in a group. My clan experiment where we used to debrief thanks to a msn like tool makes me think that you have to face similar issues.
As I tried to suggest, the difference might come that you do not have to wait for the other's responses to give your point of view. It can happen simultaneously. People writting their thoughts ,finishing them and delivering nearly at the same time.

Personnally, I use largely the internet as a means to attend conferences, meetings or stuff like that. It mixes both written skills (every one is usually connected to a msn like communication tool) and oral skills (mic+vid cam)
It has differences but I would not say it harm communications skills.
Fact is you can interact with anyone anytime using the internet.
In normal conf, someone gives a point of view and I am not located near this person, I can barely interact -and communicates with this person-until the end of the conference without disturbing the conf.
In internet supported confs, a few lines through msn while another person is speaking is totally possible. It is nearly invisible, more efficient that words on little papers handed from one person to another till the target.
This can help boosting a relationship with a person because you can help this person by providing useful data to support a point of view, playing the backroom staff part.

Another point I would like to inject: usually singling out a face of activity put highlights on the others.
The internet, through its forms relying on written contents, might get people being more aware of the other faces when they are confronted with.
In my case, this has translated in the fact I am more sensible to odors, smells from people I speak to in RL. I can for sure define two periods in my life.
Not that sensible to people's smells/ sensible to people's smells. And it is especially true when I am first introduced to the person through the internet.

By denser, I meant that anyone can exert communication skills anytime, any place thanks to the internet.
It is a training ground open round the clock, with available partners at disposal anytime, providing opportunities to train communication skills in a denser way than any other support.

Your last remark makes think again it is more a RL vs VL issue.
And it is also very interesting. Another face is in RL that you can not dig up past convos as evidences to support your point of view.

Why if two peoples quarrel on the internet, using a msn like tool?
Later, both will be able to support their claims using the recorded quarrels.
"See what you wrote on 19th, May, 2006 at 19:26pm?" "No, I did not edit it etc..."
So there is no do-over button but you have to be carefull in another way.

[trash.the.ego]

You're not really describing pure communication though Retro. If anything the majority of what you just stated are ways to manipulate your social environment. Such a definition of communication skills while in person seem to fixate on those of control, not only of yourself but of those around you.

This is the major problem I see with this discussion. Communication and social interaction are quite separate things even though they're often usually considered the same thing. One only deludes the other.

Spoken words certainly hold more power. You can end topics, questions, or even interactions with simple statements in the right tone. Such power can even throw off ones 'read' on the subject's physical state. But generally this power also hinders spoken language from being able to trigger the multiple meanings found in language. It's the basic question of 'do you listen as well as you read?' and a truthful yes is a very rare answer.

There are also many many more walls in place between spoken language and the listener. Think of how often, even fortuitously, you don't listen to someone. Think of the social hierarchy in place that affects those 'listening' to actively listen, on a given level, to what is communicated. Beyond all this there are the mental faculties which have insane effects on the fidelity of listening.

However online (or rarely these days, in print), you're heard by higher percent of your audience. Misconceptions about what you say are brought up almost always unlike verbal chat where the majority of misconceptions are shrugged off. Written language's fidelity of information is insane in comparison to verbal - it's much harder to get stuck on a previous point and ignore the whole, if it happens it is easily pointed out and understood. And as stated before, the physical 'threat' of face to face communication does not (generally) exist online. If it does exist... it is quite easily overpowered by words. Unlike in person, when social ties and physical observations can limit communication from the start.


Just some of my thoughts. I personally think it's all fine when it comes to hurting or improving social skills. The experience of using such a high fidelity form of information transfer as a normal form of communication can have impressionable effects on verbal communication, not only that by vocabularies grow faster through reading and written use. But there is a threat of building an alter-ego... although then the topic is delving into psychological grounds of ones personal image, which get quite murky.

As a side note, I've lived with a diagnosis of Asperger's since I was 8. Social interaction takes a lot more mental focus for me. I've never had real issues because of it thankfully to a large family and perfect schooling environment growing up. I certainly feel more comfortable communicating through written language so I may be a bit biased. But I do my damnedest to be as objective as I can.

[Retroboy]

You're not really describing pure communication though Retro. Nor was I trying to. I was responding to one of Chien's specific points that I disagreed with, not responding to the topic at large.

Just to restate the premise because I think we're drifting a bit here, the thread was created to discuss the relative importance of the venue of RL face-to-face communication due to the impact of online venues for same.

Trying to contrast the two venues is a logical element of an on-topic response, but it's not the specific theme of the thread.
Communication and social interaction are quite separate things You cannot possibly have social interaction without communication.

-- Retro

[Nurizeko]

Is the point of this thread to ask whether internet socializing is negatively effecting the real world social skills of todays youth?....because as far as I am aware most of todays youth can and do make friends in real life, and most of their "e-buddies...or iBuddies" are in fact real life friends to.


The internet also gives an atmosphere of freedom, a place where folk can be more open and honest (sometimes) and likewise gives a sense of safety, warranted or not. It has allowed me to "make friends" with folk I would never have spoken to before, meet people who live as far away as Japan and back again.


In conclusion, Retro, I totally disagree with the point the question is getting at. The internet, like most things, becomes unhealthy with irrational heavy use, but otherwise, it is a handy tool, a unifying digital network that has brought people together. The internet is still a seething scum pit of villainy and the worst examples of humanity, but, its also a world wide forum for the best of humanity to.

Yay intrawebs!.

[trash.the.ego]

Just to restate the premise because I think we're drifting a bit here, the thread was created to discuss the relative importance of the venue of RL face-to-face communication due to the impact of online venues for same. Trying to contrast the two venues is a logical element of an on-topic response, but it's not the specific theme of the thread.

But the impact cant truly be discussed without delving into the differences of verbal and written communication, along with the effects of social interaction on the communication of information versus an online community's effects.

There are staggering differences within the topic itself that need to be addressed. Like which way do the effects run stronger, RL -> Online or Online -> RL, and which kind of effects exist. If we're looking for a 'good or bad' result, all of this needs to be considered along with the vague statements of what's socially 'appeasing' in said face-to-face interactions.

[Mullertime]

The only downside I would say to internet-based communication, is that the mind works at a slightly different speed that it does when typing.
The thing is, when you type, it's slower than when you talk, isn't it?
Your midn creates or even 'narrates' what to write, and you essentially filter it into a good sentence. And the good thing there is that there is enough time whilst you're writing, to work out where to go from there.
As verbal communication is a lot faster, I wonder if excessive internet usage, or use of written comms, might mean that the person might trip over their words. As they talk faster than they woudl write, they essentially don't have the time or ability to 'edit' or 'do over' the things they write. I don't mean "Go back and edit". But as you write, you end up with a few extra seconds to make the sentence more fluent. But when talking, you don't have this, so people might end up having trouble with descriptions. They'd try to explain something, but it's be very 'jagged'.

Sounds farfetched, but I think that's a minor thing at the moment. More and more people have trouble talking to others around them. With mates, they're ok. But with others, so many mumble. They're nervous/unsure, and end up mumbling quietly. They're in a way not used to too much social interaction. They're out of their comfort zone.
They spend ages talking online, talking to others with the advantage of having a screen, only detailing what they write. No speaking up involved there.
But in social situations, they retreat into their shell more.
Many, many people now have trouble speaking up or presenting things to others.
The sheer amoutn of times I wanted to hit my head against the table, as members from the class would do a presentation. All any of them would do, is mumble what's on the screen.
I CAN READ TOO!!!!!
The worst thing is that tone is going. It's all monotonous. The exact same tone is used when giving presentations, particularly titles...
It would be: "Endangered Species. There are many endangered species in the world. Examples. These are some examples of endangered species..."
All titles would be said monotonously.

People just have less and less experience in speaking publically. The most experience they generally get is talking in small friendship groups. When others are involved, it's another game

The social networking and social capabilities aren't affected as much with the net. You're still maintaining a social lattice. The difference is how the communication/networking is performed. Thus, the impact you're looking for will be in written and verbal skills...

But the impact cant truly be discussed without delving into the differences of verbal and written communication, along with the effects of social interaction on the communication of information versus an online community's effects
Simple: Practise
Whenever you do something, it's essentially practise. The more you do it, the more skilled you get at it.
So the 'impact' of the net comms is simply less practise in real life convos, and more practise in net convos.
What does this entail?
These skills get practised more:
-Written communication
These skills get practised less:
-Verbal communication

That's essentially the gist of what happens. If you're not in different social situations. You don't learn to mananage them. You don't practise dealing with social situations. If you talk on the net a lot, you continue to practise typing and written communication.
Thus, writing becomes more your forte, but verbal stuff is overlooked more.
This in turn leads to confidence. We're all confident in stuff we know well, and can do well. So you're obviously more confident in playing an instrument you've practised with, than one you haven't. You're more confident in a sport you knew well, than one you don't...
The same happens here. When you practise written communication a lot, you prefer it. It becomes your comfort zone. It's the form of communication you've had most experience in, thus, you generally feel more comfortable online. But as you have less experience in verbal comms, you feel a bit more edgy about it. It's out of your preferred comfort zone. The amount of people who get worried about making phone calls... amazing...

[Tails]

I get the feeling with some of you that your definition of 'social interaction' is too competitive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/barevaperjan/ch950805.gif

[A176]

the modern internet says hi (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=140337)

[Retroboy]

A176, with respect to the topic, that thread is hilariously ambiguous. In it, we have real-time internet-based interaction within a huge community that includes all interested worldwide participants of RelicNews Forums.

But that's so they can follow an event that could ONLY be as fun as it was because it had direct and face-to-face communication involving the meeting of flesh-and-blood people, and everyone got along.

Aside from getting your kicks from confusing the living fuck out of me ( :) ), what, specifically is your point?

-- Retro

[Hiro Protagonist]

Only things that internet communication that is bothersome is danger inherent in deviant behaviors of some people(not going to talk much about this, so don't ask plz) and the face that it is giving more shy, introverted people an easier method with which to speak out (this one I will).

A person who is normally quiet, unobtrusive, and generally skittish will find it 2^16 times easier to communicate over a more inpersonal medium as typing a few keys while in front of a monitor is no where near as intimidating as being on the phone and hearing the emotions of the other person conveyed through their voice, much less in the actual presence of someone else.

Sure, these people might be totally awesome who due to their nature have a hard time expression themselves in real life, or they might be total dicks who might not otherwise say somethings, or maybe they are for all intents and purposes just like any other person but with a phobia of interaction.

I find communicating via text to be waaaaay easier for me, because my voice is naturally very soft and quiet so I need to forcefully project or yell to be heard, which bothers me to no end. I don't get this problem with text, as you can plainly read what I am typing right now (minus emotional tone, but c'est la internet).

I personally find it hard to maintain a friendship with das innarnets unless I've actually hanged out with this person at one point or another (my best bud back home is a case in point). This is just me, of course, even though I know friends of friends who aforementioned friends met online (that was convulted XD) and I don't have a problem with it, but thats not how I roll.

In short, It's not so bad, just gots ta adjust to it is all.

edit: soz if I lost my coherency, if you find it give it back, no reward.

[Noble]

I have some pretty nasty social anxiety, and I can tell you it is infinitely easier for me to communicate on this board than it is for me to speak to people in real life. At the same time however, message boards, chat rooms, even ventrilo servers are no substitute for real interaction. I can chat all day online and still feel lonely. Because of that, I don't think the internet hampers my social skills, I still very much have the desire to go out and actually be with real people. I think that psychologically, in order to be healthy most people need to be in the physical presence of other human beings. We are pack animals after all.

[A176]

Retro, the interaction during 'real life' spawned almost entirely from the online portion of their relationships. Many of them were meeting each other for the first time in real life, but that did not stop them from interacting. Even for those that had no idea who the others were, the one fact that they were all part of the same online forum was cause enough to begin interaction. You can't argue that 'oh, its the relic forums'; what makes us so special or unique that we happen to succeed in real life, where others might fail?

Anyways, my point is that the internet of today is very much different than the internet of yesteryear, as I believe where you might be coming from with your points. I think you can thank the blog/myspace/etc for changing the internet into another communications 'venue' (as you state it), rather a virtual domain of its own. Going to somebody's house evolved into calling somebody's house evolved into emailing somebody's house, and so on. Whats next, video communication? Would you argue that that would hurt communications skills as well?

If you're thinking of the fact that many 'denizens' of the internet are somewhat less sociable than others might be in real life, you'd be right. Here's the contradiction: the traits of intro/extroverts has always existed, the beginnings of the internet provided that secluded domain for where introverts can go and be relatively safe and to themselves, while still being able to voice what they want to. The internet of today however is a much more 'mainstream' venue, and both intro and extroverts can converge here and use it as a communications medium. Because of this, shy people can learn to chat with more outgoing people, whom they'd probably never talk to in real life, begin to form relationships, and infact grow their social skills more than they would have sans internet.

[QuixotesGhost]

LOL @ Tail's.

When my sister and I were in a conversation we didn't like we'd conspire to play games like that. My favorite was called "I'm not gay!" which was played when talking to your typical group of jock/fratboy lunkheads. The goal was to provoke the most salient homophobic reaction in the marks. You could normally do this pretty simply by dropping "Brokeback Mountain" in a conversation and standing back and watching as they trotted out all their lame Brokeback mountain parody jokes - normally "Brokeback Mountain? You mean ________!". And what was funny is that they would compete against one another to see who could trot out the gay-bashingest joke of them all. Hence the title of the game - what they were really doing is screaming "I'm not gay! I'm not gay!" as loud, obviously, and desperately as they could to their friends and anyone else who happened to be in the vicinity.

I think the joke for me and my sister was just how generic and predictable (and thus manipulatable) most people are. So yeah -it's possible to play competitive games in conversations and have fun with it. :)

Sorry for the tangent, btw.

[Kapyrna]

Aye, Calvin's right. I find it funny that some people (me included) can quite effectively carry a conversation about literally nothing and then be incapable of serious discussion. Also, I can type fairly well, but my brain works much faster than my hands, and much closer to the speed of my mouth. I like text communication, though, because no one interrupts me.

[Mullertime]

A person who is normally quiet, unobtrusive, and generally skittish will find it 2^16 times easier to communicate over a more inpersonal medium as typing a few keys while in front of a monitor is no where near as intimidating as being on the phone and hearing the emotions of the other person conveyed through their voice, much less in the actual presence of someone else
It gives shy people a chance.
But the only catch there is that the shy person might end up relying more on the internet-based comms, simply because it's one of the fields they feel most comfortable in.
Yes, it's nice that the net is giving them a chance to show more confidence, but the slight problem is that during this, they are not getting used to social interaction, verbally and face-to-face. Essentially, one of the only ways you can become more confident in social situations, is to basically keep going through them. Even though they might be awkward, the more times you have to talk to others face-to-face, the more you get used to it, and build confidence from it.
The catch with the net is that it provides a nice alternate route for those who are shy (Plus point), but it means that they might not get as used to social interactions, and may be left more dependent on written messages, ending up very nervous if thrown into a face-to-face situation, as they have had fewer experience in it (Minus point)

I know this is a generalised statement, and that yes, talking online can be a good way of slowly building up confidence in general. But in a way, when people were forced to talk socially all the time, they essentially got used to it and developed confidence there. This alternate route isn't giving as many people the experience/shove in the right direction which might be best. But then again, it could act as as 'easing in' platform for confidence.
Essentially, constantly being thrown in social situations is like being thrown in at the deep end. So after retreating and panicking a few times, you soon get used to it quickly. But with talking online, you essentially start in the shallows, and can slowly make your way over to the deep end. It takes longer to take effect, than just jumping in at the deep end, but is a more 'friendlier' apporach, as it were.

@QuixotesGhost
That sounds quite fun. Do you have any other 'convo games' like that?