DoW 2: Which would be the ideal factions?

[Gabriel Angelos]

Now first of all this is not just another wath race would you like to see in DOW2, but search wich factions would make the game more complete.
ATTENTION! Before posting make your statement clear with your points on why this race would be ideal and not just because it would look cool and or I like that race.

Also make the factions very different from each other however not just the functions of it are important but the actual 40k race.

I tought this on a while and came with the conclusion that this races may come in handy.

Tyranids:Covering the Close Combat oriented race they can either be numerous as Orks or very strong like chaos.

Lost And The Dammed:Large shooting numbers of the Imperial Guard,and the strong support of various chaos units including CSM.In cmparation to the actual CSM faction they have strong tanks like Leman russ etc..(mixing chaos and Imperial guard in a few words)

Space Marines:The tuff the race and simply you cant have a DOW game without Blood Ravens isnt?

Dark Eldar or Eldar:Cant think of any other fragile fast race, I would go with Dark Eldar but since they are in SS already then perhaps we could continue with Biel-tan and farseer macha.

so as you can see I have made my points on why this could be the ideal races.

[ImmortalChaos]

Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines
Eldar
Tyranids

That is all. Orks might make it in for a 5th race, but I highly doubt there will be more than 4 races in the second game. I'm going to assume that chapter/legion/craftworld/hivefleet perks will be included, but only to a farily small extent, and techtrees may be larger so as to use more units that are these at races disposal/ 6+ races? forget it.

Also, there have been several other threads discussing this.

[Fading Echo]

Marines
Eldar
Tyranids
Tau

That last one sticks in my craw, but in the interest of presenting as diverse a range of playstyles as possible, this would be a good selection. I'd personally take Necrons over Marines, but it's pretty much a given that DoW2 is going to have Marines.

[SpinDizzy]

For me personally.

Space Marines
Chaos
Orks
Tyranids.

I can live without the Eldar due to their stuck up nature.

Whereas interesting things can be done with chaos, like summoning random deman warp spawn monsters, plus they have a bit of character to them, and are the main nemesis of SM's who have to be in.

Orks are too fun to be left out.

Tyranids have to be done because everyone wants them.

[ImmortalChaos]

Can't have a 4 race game with 3 bad guys!

Eldar give a nice 2nd "good" race to play, and since they are at complete disagreement with the IoM it adds in a bit of controversy with who the real good guys are.

[zuma]

space marines
chaos
tau
imperial guard (I hope they have the IG modeled are the the Death Korps of Krieg!)

[Corbie]

Having Space Marines and not Chaos... I dunno.. I personally would have no issue with it, but Chaos is like the Joker to the Space Marines Batman.

In the interest of making the best game possible though.. id go with this:

Space Marines: You have to have them..they are the poster child for the 40k universe. Other than that..they also fill the roll of "all around faction" that is diverse, powerful, adaptable, and easy to play.

Tyranids: The Zerg/rushing faction. They are included because they are the most noticable exception from DOW1.. but also because they fit an important role in the RTS genre...and because one would expect that one of the key features of the new DOW engine will be the capability of including large horde forces like the Tyranids.

Eldar: The finesse race. Speed and damage at the cost of durability and simplicity. The "difficult to play, but incredibly powerful in the right hands" faction. They also fill a few other key roles in the game... such as "sleek and stylish".. "mystical".. and "beautiful".. all of which are attributes that attract certain players to a faction.

At this point..we have basically recreated Starcraft's factions.. which is bad because it is going to lead to a bunch of ignorant fanboi kids showing no interest in the game because they will view it as a "cheap knockoff". So with that in mind, I think the last race has to be something COMPLETELY different from what Starcraft offers.

My final selection is:

Necrons: The defensive faction..for turtlers and people who like little micromanagement. Basically.. the "easy" faction. Yah I know a lot of people dont like to see Necrons labeled like that..but that is the role that best fits them in an RTS. They are also the only faction left which can offer a completely different style of play..and they are also unique enough that they will make Starcraft fans take a second look at the game.


With those 4 races you have four completely different playstyles.. you have 2 good factions and 2 evil factions.. and you also have 4 different art styles.. 4 different "mindsets"..

All in all I think it would be a perfect set of starting factions.

If I could include one more faction I would put in either the IG or the Orks. IG id put in because they would give a vehicle faction, as well as a "normal human" faction.. which I think would be good additions. The Orks id put in because they add TONS of personality to the game.. are, hands down, one of the most unique races in the 40k universe.. and because their most recent Codex gives them alot of very cool units that would be awesome in a DOW RTS.

[NeoHunter]

Well, off the top of my head...
1.) Space Marines (how can a Warhammer 40,000 game be a Warhammer 40,000 without them?)
2.) Chaos Space Marines (some of you absolutely love and worship them no doubt)
3.) Tau Empire (I love to shoot from far)
4.) Eldar (ohhh...the mystery~)
5.) Tyranids (you all have been calling out their name since the first Dawn of War)

[Silent]

*Space Marines
*Chaos
*Tyranids
*Eldar

Combine it with a Force of Order (Space Marines, Eldar) vs. Force of Disorder campagin (Tryanids, Chaos).

Ork and IG for the second XP.
Tau and Necron in the third XP.
Dark Eldar in a final XP that focuses on the Eldar/Dark Eldar Blood Feud.

SoB...I really don't know what to do with them. Er.

[jpsc949]

+1 to immortalchaos' first post

If those four races arent what we see in DoW2 I'll eat my hat (as long as its made of chocolate)

[neucromaner]

all 9 races + nids + dh (bought from compiler) = DOW2
that is the ideal factions

any race remove will be unexceptable to me.

[Taliesyn]

If I had to choose four factions, I'd really have to go with the four DoW had to start:

Space Marines
Chaos
Orks
Eldar

To me, those four groups are the quintessential races of the game. Of course, I'm an old-timer, having played TT back in the Rogue Trader era.

First expansion, though, I'd REALLy want to see Imperial Guard and the Tyranids. Necrons eventually, although I'd like to see them balanced a bit better next go-around.

What I don't EVER want to see again are the Dark Eldar and the Sisters of Battle. To be honest, I'd rather see a Harlequin army first, although I'm probably biased, since my RT-era army was harlequins. My poor, lost Death Jesters. :cry:

[NecronGuard]

*Dark Eldar
*Eldar
*Tyranids
*Daemonhunter

That would be cool n_n

[Corbie]

Never want to see Dark Eldar!?!?

:ebil:

Bah.. I can understand Sisters of Battle.. they really shouldnt even be their own faction in the Table Top game.. Gamesworkshop should just combine them with the Daemonhunters and make one faction called "The Inquisition".

But no Dark Eldar? Cmon!!! they are a great faction. Great background..great units.. and on that magical day in the far far far far far far future..when GW decides that it is FINALLY time to update the dang codex and miniatures.. they will probably be just as popular as Eldar/Orks/Tau..etc..etc..

[Taliesyn]

To me, pretty much from the start, Dark Eldar have been sadistic eldar with a liking for melee. Pretty much "let's start with Harlequins, goth up their armor, and throw in a touch of Marquis de Sade and a whiff of sociopathy and see what comes out." They've never really differentiated enough from Eldar and Harlequin armies to really seem even remotely interesting.

[Avatar of War]

* Space Marines
* Chaos Marines
* Eldar
* Tyranids

And if there was a fifth faction:
* Orcs


Now as for what factions I would actually like to be in DoW2 at launch:
* Space Marines
* Imperial Guard
* Sisters of Battle
* Chaos Marines
* Tyranids
* Orcs

[Tadatsune]

Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines
Orks
Imperial Guard


*Screw Tyranids.* There, I said it.

[Mardhyn]

After playing Soul Storm extensively, I pray that the Dark Eldar are included in DoW2 within the first game/expansion. They are just a freaking awesome race that deserves a powerful engine to accent there awesomeness.

[Shuma]

Well, what i whant is:

Space Marines
Necrons
'Nids
Eldar

What we'll get is that, just change necrons with Chaos and that's it.

[Shadow Walker]

give me all original races and that is it=SM,CSM,Eldar,Tyranids,IG and Orks [and yes there were also Squats but who cares?]. 4 of them in first game and IG+Orks in first [and last] expansion[no more wh40kmore Sims-one but great expansion set].

[Shakrith]

I think if Chaos were made more different from Space Marines it would be great. More representation of cultists and individual Chaos gods. Lost and the damned style - ranged cultists, melee mutants, spawn. I want to see noise marines, plague marines, khorne berzerkers, and the chaos space marines themselves, even undivided, would be veterans available at tier 2.

Other than that, Space Marines of course, nids, and either imperial guard or eldar.

[Energizer Bunny]

SM - Definate
Chaos - Definate
Nids - Damn near definate
4th race - completely up for grabs

4th would be either Orks or Eldar I'd assume. I'd probably guess Orks since otherwise you're going to have 3 ranged armies vs one melee one. With orks it would be 2v2.

[DeadorK]

I don't know why people are gobbling over 'nids. Personally the 4 original factions were the most diverse (imho).

[Fenrir_hun]

Space Marine
Chaos
Tyranids
Orks
Eldar

Space Marines and Chaos are not even worth questioning, the whole w40k world is about them.

Tyranids: Nids are an everlasting desire for players and sure its something new, which reeeaaally could express a new engine handling incredible masses = incredible fights/battles


Orks: Well, personally they are my favourites,so I hope they will be there, and there is no real fight without the orks. They give the spice to the w40k universe, beeing original and always good for a fight.. problem is that I have never seen a proper story with them, Its that they are a decoy or smash in and burn/chop/slash/dakka things up.

Eldar: Well with the eldar story and everything would be allright, but its just ...naahh eldar are weak :D

[aerziel]

1.) Space Marines - because they are in every other w40k game might as well.

2.) Chaos - something like an opposite to Space marines like SM can be a bit range but not godly while chaos can be melee a bit but not godly as well.

3.) tyranids - like a previous post rush race.

4.) imperial guards - defence oriented race.

[Imperial Honour]

Dawn of War 2 really need Imperial Guard and Tyranids facing off for one epic reason, so I can have persistant bodies and every graphical detail set to maximum and watch the carnage as my screen piles up with gruesome corpse victim to battle and ragdoll physics.

So my selections would obviously be;
* Space Marines - The Emperor's Finest Protect (Everyone's Favourite, While Small In Numbers They Are Lethal In Combat)
* Imperial Guard - Victory Through Numbers (More Defensive Kinder Race to New Commers)
* Chaos - Eternal Enemies of the Imperium and the Eldar (Well there Chaos what isn't there to love from Daemons to psycopathic twisted marines running at you with chainswords and bolt pistols in a Rhino rush reminisent of TT)
* Tyranids - Swarming Over Everything Harvesting Biomass (Rushing, or Zerg Rush, aggressive and very mellee\swarm orientated, well they seem that way in TT anyway)

[aerziel]

off topic: hmm i been thinking about this how about using biomass as gibs?

[Energizer Bunny]

I don't know why people are gobbling over 'nids. Personally the 4 original factions were the most diverse (imho).

The community has been salivating over the prospect of Nids since DoW first came out. Relic has always said that they wouldn't implement them in an expansion pack as the engine couldn't do them justice. They aren't quite a 100% definate, but their pretty damn close.

[FerociousBeast]

If there aren't five races in DoW2, I swear I will... not do anything at all, but I won't be happy. There's no reason not to have five. So, here's my pick for the five:

Space Marines -- no brainer.
Chaos -- also a no brainer.
Imperial Guard -- IG are a big favorite among players, and they offer a unique playstyle.
Tyranids -- almost a no brainer. See Energizer Bunny's posts.
Dark Eldar -- a good choice to mix up the palette a little bit. They're still Eldar, but they're not.

Space Marines would be the small number of elite units race. Chaos would be the super-hard elite units backed up by expendable masses race. Imperial Guard would be the massed range and vehicles race. Tyranids would be the massed close combat and monsters race. And Dark Eldar would be fast, mean, glass cannon race.

That would provide a good mix, in my opinion.

[Imperial Honour]

If there was the possibility for a fifth race I would go with either Dark Eldar or the Eldar due to two playstyle reasons, they are micromanagement heavy yet quick and hit hard. So for the more skilled players in the community a fifth race being Eldar or Dark Eldar would make much sense since they can micromange insane amounts of tasks compared to a new player, almost be everyone on the battlefield in a few click or hotkeys and with a strike fast, yet fragile glass cannons, hit hard attitude of the Eldar and Dark Eldar can be used for quick hard strikes everywhere on the map.

[CyberFish]

What races would I LIKE to see? Imperial Guard, Chaos, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids. But that's just me.

What races are most likely to actually be in the game? Space Marines are practically a given, and Relic would catch so much flak for not including Tyranids that they're practically certain to be in as well. I'm betting on four races (no-one would be happy with fewer races than in the original, and five is pushing it a bit). I expect to see two of the "good" races and two "evil" races so there's something for everyone.

Necrons are likely to be saved for an expansion pack because, let's face it, they're boring and no-one likes them. Sisters of Battle and Daemonhunters are kind of niche forces and aren't iconic enough to be in the first release. Orks, while really cool, aren't likely to be included alongside the Tyranids because then you have two melee horde races.

That leaves Tau, Eldar, and Imperial Guard fighting over the "good guys" slot and Chaos and Dark Eldar fighting over the "bad guys" slot. Eldar and Dark Eldar feel too similar to be included together in the first release, and to be honest I think Chaos and Space Marines play too similarly as well, so I think the final line up will be:

Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Tau OR Imperial Guard - probably Imperial Guard for storyline reasons.

Or, if Relic decide to include Chaos despite them being very similar to space marines, we'll probably have:

Space Marines
Chaos
Tyranids
Eldar

If we have five races, I kind of expect the fifth to be the Orks - Relic apparently really love Warboss Gorgutz. Or it might be the Imperial Guard. Who knows?

[Flagg]

If DOW2 is going to become a reality, I just cant see how you cannot have SM, Eldar, Chaos and Orks in the starting line-up. If relic really wanna treat us and start with 5 races, i'm guessing they'll go for IG or Tyranids as the 5th army.

[Energizer Bunny]

I don't see IG getting in myself. I could be wrong but I just don't think they're popular enough amongst the player base for Relic to include them. If there is a fifth race though (which I personally don't think there will be) then I'd agree IG are probably it.

[Octopus Rex]

What makes you certain there would be four races guys? It's totally conceivable that they would go for two a la CoH to make it easier to balance. However, the WW2 setting has the whole one side vs another, rather than the W40k free-for-all. I dunno, I just wonder whether they might try and do only 2 really really well, which also leaves them maximum expansion potential, and we all know how much they (or is that 'we'?) love expansions. ;)

I don't think any will be different in so much as "this is a CC race and this is a shooty race" because DOW wasn't like that. Tyranids have loads of bio-guns for example. IG is the only race that really lacks either kind of troop (melee), but it still has some. Too much CC/shooty bias would just break the game probably.

That being said there'll be a couple givens I imagine, regardless of gameplay:
-there'll be an equal number of 'light' (pretty) and 'dark' (ugly) races
-Space Marines will be in there.

Personally, I always felt that Orks were the classic rivals of Space Marines. I know Chaos are basically anti-marines, but I never used to see Chaos fight them it, was always Orks - the horde vs the elite, the many vs the few. It took longer for Chaos to become a fully established race, Orks were always soild. I would find Orks & Marines more varied and interesting than having both the 2 most similar races of all, Marines and Chaos. Boring.

So, that's Marines and Orks. The other two, well for varieties sake I'd say Tyranids and Eldar/Tau. Many vs Few vs Organic vs Technology. But really I don't think Relic will have much say in it at all. Games Workshop will probably be dictating what races go in, or will at least have a very heavy hand in it. It depends what races they want to pimp at the time.

[Iwasfrozen]

This is what i would like,
Space Marines (Can't have a game without them)
Chaos (The oposite of the SM, act as an antagonist to the Imperium.)
Imperial Guard (A nice defensive race, very popular.)
Dark Eldar (A lot like Eldar, but more attack orianted, also the Dark Eldar codex is coming out in '09 so it would be a great oppertunity for games workshop to expand these guys.)
Orkz (Provide comic relief, also they are the "swarming" race.)

As much as i would love to see Tyranids in DOW II given their popularity, it is most likly relic will release them in the expansion.
:bonnet:

[FerociousBeast]

I would find Orks & Marines more varied and interesting than having both the 2 most similar races of all, Marines and Chaos. Boring.They're pretty similar right now, I'll admit, but I'd like to see Chaos change in DoW2. I'd like Chaos to consist of super hard core (and expensive) units, where the base Chaos Space Marine squad is like a regular Space Marine squad on crack, backed up by hordes of expendable cultists and daemons. That would make for a much more diverse playing experience.

As for Orks, well, if the nids are in it, unfortunately the Orks probably won't since the two armies are very similar both in conception and fighting style.

[medizichen]

here's what i would like to see.

Space Marines and Chaos These guys are like the staple for the warhammer 40k universe. you just cant have a game on warhammer 40k without them.

IG and Tyrannids Both races would involve massing cheap units except one is more of a turtler and one is more offensive. plus its cool to see masses of infantry and tyrannids battling it out in a large meat grinder.

I'd like a 5th race. if there was, i'd want either Orks or Eldar though i have more preference for Orks cos they're so damn fun. if there are only 4 races, they must be included in future expansions. heh.

[Inquisitoriae]

I agree with Octopus Rex: How about abandoning the codex limits and instead do it CoH-style with a faction branching off into 3 or 4 distinct factions. Below is a suggestion on how this could be done. Maybe my suggestion is too detailed, but I'd rather see a few races with more fluff and more fleshed out than just DoW with better graphics/physics. And I'm all for the 40k-Sims concept: I say bring on the expansions! :)

DOW2 - the game:
The Imperium (could be specialized in four ways: IG only, SM only, ID, WH)
Chaos (could be specialized in four ways: Khornate SM, Tzeentzch SM, The Lost and the Damned, Daemons)
Tyranids (can be specialized in four ways: Leviathan (cc-style dominant), Kraken (shooting dominant), Behemoth (psyker dominant), Genestealer Cults (infiltrators))

SM/Chaos is IMHO defining 40k, so DOW2 can't be without them, Tyranids are a must based on popular demand.
...

An almost full priced standalone XP with the two arch enemies and a cool War of the Old Ones campaign:
Eldar (can be specialized in four ways: Craftworld Ulthwe (heavy numbers, wraithguard), Craftworld Saim-Hann (speed specialists), Craftworld Alaitoc (unseen death from afar), Harlequins (deceivers))
Necrons (can be specialized in just two ways (unless GW updates the Necron codex with the Void Dragon and the Outsider): Nightbringer (terror, cc), Deceiver (deceive, shooting))
...

A cheaper standalone XP with a cool Armageddon style campaign continuing from where the original campaign ended:
Orks (can be specialized in four ways: Goff Clan (allrounders), Clan Snakebite (primitive, cc), Clan Bad Moons (shooting), Evil Suns (speed).

I know that many see the orks as must-have, but quite a few think they are ridiculous. That's why I think they belong in an XP.
...

A cheaper standalone XP with a cool Raider style campaign continuing from where the original campaign ended:
Dark Eldar (can be specialized in two ways: Raiders (speed), Commorragh battle force (more heavy)).

[FerociousBeast]

I like your ideas, Inq.

But back to whether or not IG will be in it, I believe that if Tyranids are in, IG almost HAVE to be. In the fluff, nids have two natural enemies: Orks and Imperial Guard. Orks because the two sides have a blast chopping each other up into little tiny bits (ultimate meatgrinder) and Imperial Guard because they are the army which most often attempts to prevent the nids from consuming a planet.

But, as I've said, Orks are conceptually too similar to the nids, so, if for single-player-campaign purposes only, IG will have to be in the game if nids are.

[Narj]

I'm kind of saddened by the sheer amount of "it's okay to settle for more of the same" going on in this thread. What's wrong with demanding more than four races in the original game? They don't all have to make it into the single player. You guys are already giving them the a-okay to wow you over with "Dawn of War 2: Four races and Blood Ravens...again!". So very disappointing...:noway:

Personally, I'd like to see at least six races right from the start. If they're going to do a sequel, then they should take the time and make the game worthy of being one. I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I'd much rather it took them far longer to produce a sequel that was a very polished, balanced, and diverse product then to settle for a rushed heap of déjà vu.

---Edit line!---

It seems to me that you have a 2 sets of natural opponents with an easy to set up story line (SM are called in to help the IG which is struggling with the beginings of a Tyranid invasions. Chaos Doomsday cultist and renegade - aggitated by Alpha Legion trickery - are trying to subvert the defesne effort so that the Tyranid invasion in order to distract and weaken the Imperium, planing to swoop in for the kill once the SM finaly put the tyranids down.) Two elite faction, two horde faction, two more melee focused, two more shooty. Shared technology = shared physics, and less work for developers.

See what I mean!?

Case in point within that entire quote, but the bold just did me in...:cry:

[Tadatsune]

here's what i would like to see.

Space Marines and Chaos These guys are like the staple for the warhammer 40k universe. you just cant have a game on warhammer 40k without them.

IG and Tyrannids Both races would involve massing cheap units except one is more of a turtler and one is more offensive. plus its cool to see masses of infantry and tyrannids battling it out in a large meat grinder.

I'd like a 5th race. if there was, i'd want either Orks or Eldar though i have more preference for Orks cos they're so damn fun. if there are only 4 races, they must be included in future expansions. heh.

This is more or less exactly what I am thining. I'd perfer Orks to Tyranids personally, but it would be fairly suicidal for Relic/THQ not to put the 'nids in after skiping them some many times with the exuse of engine limitations.

It seems to me that you have a 2 sets of natural opponents with an easy to set up story line (SM are called in to help the IG which is struggling with the beginings of a Tyranid invasions. Chaos Doomsday cultist and renegade - aggitated by Alpha Legion trickery - are trying to subvert the defesne effort so that the Tyranid invasion in order to distract and weaken the Imperium, planing to swoop in for the kill once the SM finaly put the tyranids down.) Two elite faction, two horde faction, two more melee focused, two more shooty. Shared technology = shared physics, and less work for developers.

[Inquisitoriae]

Games Workshop will probably be dictating what races go in, or will at least have a very heavy hand in it. It depends what races they want to pimp at the time.It's funny where these rumours come from: In every interview I've read, listened to or watched with game designers or devs, they all say the same: "... We had free hands on deciding the content. ... GW only helped us making our ideas more aligned with the fluff... etc. etc.".
So, where do you know these facts from?

IG will have to be in the game if nids are.I disagree with your whole argumentation about this. The nids have only one enemy: Life that are not Tyranids, so they will fit in any campaign with or without IG/Orks.

[RMX]

DOW2:
- Space Marines
- Chaos Space Marines
- Imperial Guard
- Tyranids
- Orks

DOW2 1st Expansion:
- Eldar
- Necrons
- Sisters of Battle

DOW2 2nd Expansion:
- Dark Eldar
- Daemon Hunters
- Tau

= everyone happy

[Koozer]

4 races is plenty to start a game with, and the more races you add the more unbalanaced it'll be at launch no matter how much testing they do.
As said before it'll probably an even mix of good Vs evil and horde Vs elite. Space Marines are definately in, Tyranids most probable, then either Chaos Space Marines or Daemons. Adding Daemons could be a bit of free advertising of GW's new TT army of the same name and also stop the difficulties Relic have of differentiating CSM from SM, not to mention being a more fun and different race for a player than basically spiky marines.
The last race would have to be 'good' so the 4 starting races would be (in my opinion):

Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines/Daemons
Tyranids
Eldar/Tau

No Imperial Guard because all 4 races need to be differentiated.
It's also probably a given that they'll be able to specialise in-game like CoH, so Chaos forces would pick a god and gain access to their daemons/troops, Tau would pick from their Kauyon/Mont'Ka thingies (I'm not too good on Tau lore :) )etc.
Maybe, just maybe there'll be 5 races to stop complaints about being the same as DoW 1 but with a pretty engine, but definately no more than 5.

[FerociousBeast]

The nids have only one enemy: Life that are not TyranidsWell, of course. But, who is it that ALWAYS fights Tyranids and who provides them with their best/most typical match up? Imperial Guard. If the nids are attacking a human world, the IG WILL be there to contest it. Thus saith the fluff.

[gorays]

Tyranids
Space marines
Imperium
Chaos

[Tadatsune]

I'm kind of saddened by the sheer amount of "it's okay to settle for more of the same" going on in this thread. What's wrong with demanding more than four races in the original game? They don't all have to make it into the single player. You guys are already giving them the a-okay to wow you over with "Dawn of War 2: Four races and Blood Ravens...again!". So very disappointing...

Personally, I'd like to see at least six races right from the start. If they're going to do a sequel, then they should take the time and make the game worthy of being one. I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I'd much rather it took them far longer to produce a sequel that was a very polished, balanced, and diverse product then to settle for a rushed heap of déjà vu.

Oh yes, much better to make ridiculous demands and hold the developer to an impossibly high standard! Hell, why don't we put down our foot and demand ALL the Wh40k races with ALL their TT models and options while also insiting on top quality graphics, physics and game mechanics. Throw in a huge scripted campaign which can be played by each faction, and a bunch of different multiplayer modes as well!

Look, I'd like variety as much as you and I want the product to be as good as possible. However, something somewhere has to give, and if its going to be a choice I'd rather have the game blanced, bugfree and polished rather than one crammed full of features. 4 totaly distinct races in an RTS is fairly huge task for developers; most have only 2 or 3, and those with more are often heavy on overlap. Hell, I'd even settle for DoW2: SM vs Chaos whith kickass gameplay, though I think it would be a mistake to include less than 4 sides given the variety of the source material and the expectations of the fanbase. You don't have to accept a faulty or lackluster product (re: soulstorm), but that doesn't mean you should have unrealistic expectations. Save the rest of Wh40k races for the expansions. If the DoW -> Soulstorm phenomenon is anything to judge by, if the base product is quality people will buy expansions for it for years to come.

The only thing I agree with you on is the "Take your time" part. While people may scream for earlier releases, no-one is really benifited by a half finished product; taking your time and getting it right means both the fans and the franchize are much better off in the long run.

[Inquisitoriae]

Well, of course. But, who is it that ALWAYS fights Tyranids and who provides them with their best/most typical match up? Imperial Guard. If the nids are attacking a human world, the IG WILL be there to contest it. Thus saith the fluff.Humans and orks are the most numerous in the galaxy, so ofc they will be attacked. But fluff is not the issue because there's also a truckload of exciting fluff about Iyanden that would make one hell of a setting IMHO. I see your point and I think it would make some cool campaign element with the Imperium vs Tyranids, but I still disagree that IG/nids is a "natural" couple.

[Dorian Gray]

Correct me if am wrong, for I know not so much about the 40K Background to talk with expertise, but aren't the Tyranids a lot like the Zerg? I wish not to compare and say, 'that one is better!'...I'am just curious of how many comparisons would arrive if the melding/absorbing of the Nids makes in to the final product (Such as Starcraft's Zergs seems to show). Can anyone guess, or have a good ideia of how the Nids would be structured, and unique?

[FerociousBeast]

Blizzard copied the Tyranids in making their Zerg, so the onus of distinction lies with them, I'm afraid, rather than Relic.

4 totaly distinct races in an RTS is fairly huge task for developers; most have only 2 or 3, and those with more are often heavy on overlap.
First, no, very few RTSs these days have only 2 factions. CoH vanilla was the exception in that regard. 3 is still fairly common, though.

Second, four or five armies will not be as difficult for Relic to balance as other games might experience for two reasons: a) they have years of experience in DoW1 to fall back on, and b) they have the invaluable resource of GW's table top game as inspiration, a game which, with 11 factions, is pretty well balanced right now with a very few exceptions.

[Dorian Gray]

From 9 to 4, I don't know. Doesn't feel right. Would go for a minimum of 5. Unless each army branches into others..

[Benjamin]

I always the IG and SM to be represented in some kind of Imperium faction with the Space Marines units being used as call in options on certain "trees." If they do decide to go down the "tree" way of call ins that is...

[Znuff]

Its not very obvious what they will go for. They will end up with diffrent races depending on if they prio gameplay, iconic or popular races. Althou I think we will see more races then in original DOW, if for no other reason then that it will let them say 'more races then original DOW'. This would put my guess at 5 races (duh, why work too hard). Its possible that they can incorporate better gameplay by rewamping the current DoW races. CoH style specialisation choises would add some spice to the older races. That would actualy cause some trouble for some of the newer tabletop factions as its mostly the older ones who have special army versions that are suitable. I dont think Necrons and Dark Eldar has any such things atleast.

There is also the small chance that they will go for something totaly diffrent. The main reason that there wont be all races from the start is because they want to make expansions. But there is the option of having all current races plus tyrranids from the start and then have commander specializations, new units, space battles etc in expansions. At the very least so have they stated that they wish to incorporate spacebattles into DoW someday. This idea is pretty diffrent from Relics model, but other designers have done it this way before with good results.

[Octopus Rex]

Tadatsune - good response to Narj there, covered a lot of my feelings.

Narj - 6 races. FFS, you're just being silly. You can have fewer higher quality races, or more hastily done and badly thought out ones. Take your pick. What you cannot have is lots of high quality races AND a super duper new engine in the first release. Far too much work, far too much cost, and you're killing revenue by denying yourself expansion exclusive races. Great business move! :awesome:

Inquisitorae - loved your ideas about branching thingies, those have been chewed over quite heavily since they first appeared in CoH. While that would be cool, I'd love to be surprised by something really really new that we haven't thought of. Most people say they would be happy with DoW w/CoH engine, but I sincerely doubt that.

Have you ever thought "wow, this album is ace!! I hope the next is just like this!" - then the next album comes out and it IS just like the last one, and that's actually disappointing, it's just more of the same. I guarantee if DOW2 was too similar to COH people would whinge their bitchy little tits off about how "it's just COH reskinned", even though that's exactly what they asked for. Also, I really doubt Relic would be satisfied with that either, they'll want to do something new and try some new things out, push the envelope some more.

So while those ideas would be cool, I hope they do something that surprises us more than anything else, and while they'll obviously play it safe to some extent, I just hope that they don't play it too safe. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. :)

As for GW interference: I have my sources, but I either way it doesn't matter all that much.

[Tadatsune]

Blizzard copied the Tyranids in making their Zerg, so the onus of distinction lies with them, I'm afraid, rather than Relic.

Not remotely true. Relic's tyranids WILL be judged by their distinction from the Zerg, wich are the RTS standard. It makes no difference that TT Tyranids came first, as only TT fanboys will consider that in their evaluation.

That said, it won't be much of an issue. Relic is bound pretty tightly to the GW IP for Tyranids, and the IP is sufficiently distinct from the Zerg that it won't be a problem. Sure, there are large superficial similarities (biotech, zergling/gaunt swarms, acid spores, huge ultralisks/carnifexes), but when you consider that Starcraft doesn't make much real use of "evolution" mechanics (beyond upgrade names) or real physics (which we hope to have in DoW) or morale or synapse based leadership/pop limit mechanisms, I think they will end up playing quite diffently.

[Inquisitoriae]

Can anyone guess, or have a good ideia of how the Nids would be structured, and unique?
They would first of all look cooler than the Zergs. Just look at the latest SC2 cutscene and you will know that will be the easiest part ;) : http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31706.html
- They would need Synapse creatures for controlling them or they will revert to a primitive AI mode (i.e. attack the nearest enemy).
- They would probably also have fearsome infiltration units.
- Their presence will likely change the fauna and cause changes in the weather.

EDIT:
Have you ever thought "wow, this album is ace!! I hope the next is just like this!"
Nice points. I see. I also agree completely with your say on Relic - they always deliver something innovative with great gameplay value. And they are always credited with good reviews! I agree that my suggestion was too much like coh - and that Relic probably has something even better up it's sleeve! :)

[Znuff]

Well, of course. But, who is it that ALWAYS fights Tyranids and who provides them with their best/most typical match up? Imperial Guard. If the nids are attacking a human world, the IG WILL be there to contest it. Thus saith the fluff.
Well, fluff wise so are the IG usualy just food for the Tyrranids and its the Spacemarines that saves the day or virus bombs the planet if they cant. :bricks: Genestealer infestations are another thing, that IG could handle, if they get proper directions from some experienced commander. Fluff wise so wouldnt it be unusual if the commander was a Spacemarine or Inquisitior thou. :-\

[Dorian Gray]

Good to know there are good differences between those two. On another side, one thing that makes a me a little sad is the fact that I think the Nids won´t have real voice acting (Though that may not be the case...). But that is another matter.

If a sort of "army branch mechanism" makes into DoW2, Do we really need 4 Imperium sub-classes??, if you consider that mechanism, The Marines themselves have their chapters...Anyway, for now we can only guess...

[Narj]

Narj - 6 races. FFS, you're just being silly. You can have fewer higher quality races, or more hastily done and badly thought out ones. Take your pick. What you cannot have is lots of high quality races AND a super duper new engine in the first release. Far too much work, far too much cost, and you're killing revenue by denying yourself expansion exclusive races. Great business move!

I found your suggestion of two races to be rather um, "silly", as well. Also, thankfully, it's not up to you (or me, or anyone here) to decide where to draw the line for "too much work". Also, don't tell me what you can and cannot have in a product unless you're somehow directly involved in the creation of DoW 2. As far as killing revenue goes, I think they're doing a pretty good job of that on their own. For the sake of this thread I'm not going to dig deeper into the previously mentioned point, however.

There is nothing wrong with setting the bar high. If you don't, then you leave nothing to be achieved but mediocrity. I would rather have high expectations than have the attitude of "make it just like vanilla dow!1!" (not that I believe that's your particular attitude), as the latter encourages stagnancy.

[Dorian Gray]

Maybe it's just me. But there is something I fear, and some may share it, some may not. But lately, in franchises like Unreal (Which I always enjoyed), the older ones just seemed better. I preferred UT over UT2004, and UT2004 over UT3...It seems the magic had wear thin over the time...I really hope DoW2 doesn't go the same way for me...

[Octopus Rex]

Narj - I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with setting the bar high and that yes we should actively do so (hence I haven't bought SS), but that's slightly different from 'demanding' far too much and then whinging when those demands aren't met. I am setting the bar high also. I would rather quality over quantity. You seem to want oodles of BOTH, which I think is just unrealistic.

So you find having 2 races in COH ridiculous? Fair enough. Anyway, just for the record, I wasn't suggesting that they should go for two races, I was simply saying that they might not go for the four that everyone is assuming.

Neither of us want a re-hash, and yeah as you probably read, I would NOT be happy with "DOW with COH engine" that most people are. So I think our opinions are not so different.

[CyberFish]

I, for one, would be happy with as few as three races, but if there are less than four races people will say "wtf, Dawn of War 1 had more races than this. Suxxorz."

IMO, the best races for gameplay would be SM or Chaos (durable elites), Eldar or Dark Eldar (fast and fragile), Tyranids (hordes and huge monsters), and Tau or IG (overwhelming firepower).

The best races for the storyline would be Tyranids (the principle antagonist descending on a populous world) Imperial Guard (valiantly trying to hold an almost-certainly-doomed planet), Space Marines (arriving in the nick of time to pluck victory from the very maw of defeat), and Chaos (offering the populace a chance to escape the ravening Tyranid horde for the small price of their immortal souls).

[Young Nastyman]

I kinda fancy the idea of an Imperium faction that starts with basic IG stuff but let's you branch through various factions to the point where you can choose between masses of fine IG infantry (Karskins, Catachans and whatever exotic units they posses) plus tanks or go the Space Marine way and settle with a few elite units. And now imagine the same for Chaos, from cultist to several Chaos Pantheons.
This way, players could start with a relative neutral faction but customize it in a way they see fit to best annihilate the opponent (who of course,can do the same thing)

This way two factions wouldn't be a problem since they're extremely diverse and this way a metamap campaign doesn't result in Imperial factions fighting each other just because it's a free for all. I admit it'll need some serious tweaking but then again, we 're setting the bar high aint?

[FrostPaw]

I actually don't care which 40k race appears in DoW2 I just hope they don't end up giving us another meta map campaign.

[Gabriel Angelos]

I have seen many people ho wants Chaos and Imperial guard as a definitie race in DOW2.
Well guess wath, you could have em both in the same race with Lost and the Damed.

I belive that LOST And The Damed would be ideal due to it will combine the Imperial Guard and the Forces of chaos (for chaos fanboys)into a single faction that would result into an even better faction with good vehicles and not so weak troops.

[Eisenhorn538]

My choices:

-Space Marines
-Tyranids
-Chaos Space Marines
-Eldar

As much as I'd rather have IG, you can't do anything 40K without fitting the Space Marines in there somewhere. Hopefully IG will be in the next expansion, not Lost and the Damned, loyalist Guard.

If Orks aren't in then Tyranids are going to be the horde race and everyone including me has wanted them for ages.

Chaos Space Marines are there for those who don't want to play marines or want to play as a darker side. And it's just fitting to have SM and CSM squaring off at each other at the end just like at the end of the first DoW.

Eldar are one of the factions that I like the least because of their playstyle. However their playstyle will provide variety in this game which will be a good thing.

If there is a 5th faction it has to be Orks simply for the humour. :D

[AzK]

All the ss races, for the simple fact that leaving even 1 of them out could annoy some people.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by FrostPaw
I actually don't care which 40k race appears in DoW2 I just hope they don't end up giving us another meta map campaign.

Couldn't agree more...Happy were the days of "normal" campaign...Or at least, if they so want to implement this meta system (which by the way they love and adore), do it the right way. Right now it just feels a bit empty. Has potential though...

[Tseng_Fox]

I would hope to see a generalised Inqusition force.

Core units could be:

Inqusitorial Stormtroopers
Priests
Acro-flaggulants
Pentient Engine
Missionary
Confesser
Inquisitor + full retinue
Inquisitorial Rhino
Inquisitorial Chimera

Doctrines would focus on the chamber-militant armies for each of the different orders of the Inquisition:

Ordo Hereticus: Allows for Sisters of battle units to be used as well as the basic units as well as some defensive focused abilities

Ordo Malleus: Allows requistion of Grey Knight units and for Offensive oriented abilites

Ordo Xenos: Allows for Deathwatch units and a variety of different and unique research

Adeptus Arbites: Allows for Arbites units and focuses on a 'pure' inquisition force. Has abilities to boost resources and increases unit strengths of the core units.

I feel this would be very suited to the doctrine system.

The campain could be about the Imperial Guard and Inqusition fighting against Chaos while Tyranids suddenly attack with the Space marines arrive to back up the imperial forces. It would make up too for the fact that the Inqusition is always the race that gets added the last.

[s33k]

My choice for four races in DoW2

IG: saving the planet from the 'Nids
SM: c'mon the overall "good guys", saving the IG ass before total annihilation
'Nids: Everyone wants em, give the people what they want
Chaos: I see the Chaos coming in, using the 'Nids as a distraction, while they raise some daemon, find an old Chaos relic, idk something

[WhiteDeVile]

Personally I'm getting sick with space marines as the main thing in the game.
Srsly, how many times can one race play the main role in the plot ?
As far as Im concerned Rites of War or Final Liberation was about Eldar/IG fighting Nids or Orkz, so it doesnt always have to be:
OMGZ GW WANTZ DEM SAPCE MARINZS SO THERE BE DEM RINS <__<

Me and most of my friends always thought (we've talked about an actual DoW2, for a hundred times)
that in DoW2 there'll be 4 basic DoW races plus Nids,
So, SM, CSM, Orkz, Eldar and Nids to make all dem fanbois happy V__v

From an economical point of view we all know that having all 9 DoW + WA + DC + SS races ALREADY in DoW2 is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE PERIOD, plus it would propably be boring.
If it would happen anyway I'd shit brix.

Anyway, 4 basic races, plus nids in main campaign of another "galaxy domination" would fit perfectly.

OR a risky alternative of 3 basic races (choose of IG/SM, CSM, Eldar, Nids)
in THREE DIFFERENT CAMPAIGNS
(yesh SC style, in befo "aw god not this again")
That would ALL be about race vs nids conflict.
Awesome.

[Zeru]

I personally vote for the Original races + Nids.

The 4 races in the original DoW are Iconic for 40k, and to an extent, so are the Tyranids. (Thus the reason people are foaming at the mouth for them)

I could definetly see alot of CoH's ideas being used to give us more diversity within these factions to, specifically the Doctrine system.


Chaos= 4 Chaos Gods, easy enough, and seperates them from the marines by a good margin.

Space Marines= Could be divided up by companies. 1st company (Veteren marines and Termi), Armory support (more tanks and varients) etc.

Tyranids = could be seperated by the type of hive fleet they are, mostly Gaunt based, Genestealer cult, heavy assault fleet (lots of big creatures) etc.

Eldar = Rapid strike force (jetbikes), Wraith heavy (guard and lords), Seer Heavy (More Warlocks and Seer Council, additional powers), or Aspect heavy (more aspect warriors/Exarchs)

Orks = The different Ork factions, they offer alot of diversity.

I think DoW 2 could handle 5 factions, especially since Relic has had the experience from the original DoW and its expansions behind them.

Necrons, Tau, and Guard will sadly have to take a back seat, I am especially sad about the Guard, but they would be implemented in the first expansion, no doubt.

DE, SoB are both rarer armies (DE raid after all, not engage in open warfare), and the same could be said for Daemon Hunters.

[hylander25k]

Adeptus Arbites: Allows for Arbites units and focuses on a 'pure' inquisition force. Has abilities to boost resources and increases unit strengths of the core units.

I always viewed Arbites as an elite military police or tactical urban street warfare...not so much inquisition. That how the IG codex describes them anyway.

[Tseng_Fox]

I always viewed Arbites as an elite military police or tactical urban street warfare...not so much inquisition. That how the IG codex describes them anyway.

They are but they can be requisitioned by the Inqusition. I think it could open up the lore for them more and maybe lead to them being a more focused branch of the Inqusition to diversify it. I view them of being just a little bit stronger than a guardsmen but having better tech to make up for it.

It could be fluffy, representing a world just being driven into anarchy by heretical cultists with the Inquistion arriving and taking control of all police forces on the planet.

I would see them suited to a City fight involving IG or Chaos. They could be the Inquistions counter doctrine to them.

[Narj]

Alright I'll bite; let's talk about initial races in a theoretical DoW 2! I guess if I was held at gunpoint to pick out some races, they'd be as follows in no particular order:


Space Marines - Just a given.
Chaos - Same here.
Tyranids - Relic will be burned to the ground by a horde of angry nerds otherwise.
Eldar - They're my favorite race. So there.
Tau - I think the sequel could be a good way for Games Workshop to flesh out Tau better, as it sounds like they could stand to do a better job from what I understand.


Mind you, I don't think it'd be necessary for all the races to make it into the campaign. In fact, given Tau's position to certain Hivefleets I think it'd make for a good way to incorporate Tyranids in and have a "fluffy" storyline to boot. <insert deity of your choice here> forbid the Space Marines aren't the poster boys for the campaign.

Also, if you wanted to push it further, at some point in the storyline you could even have Eldar (for the sake of being different..*gasp!*) of the Craftworld Iyanden show up at some point to assist Tau. Iyanden's history with the space bugs could come into play there. Let's stretch that even further and just say (theoretically) that Prince Yriel doesn't wish to have home worlds of any race experience what happened to his own. Say he makes a very special appearance (and possible brief player control) in some climactic battle alongside Tau towards the end of the game...

Ah, how happy that would make me. I obviously got lost in my own dreaming there, but you get the idea. :p

---If your name is Octopus Rex, continue reading. Otherwise, the on topic portion is now officially over. Carry on.---

Narj - I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with setting the bar high and that yes we should actively do so (hence I haven't bought SS), but that's slightly different from 'demanding' far too much and then whinging when those demands aren't met. I am setting the bar high also. I would rather quality over quantity. You seem to want oodles of BOTH, which I think is just unrealistic.

If you find that realistic, just imagine how ridiculously hard I am on myself. ;)

I'm just "like that", I guess you could say. Of course, at the same time you won't see me needlessly whining either. I try to keep things level headed but stern. I do get the point you were making all the same.

So you find having 2 races in COH ridiculous? Fair enough. Anyway, just for the record, I wasn't suggesting that they should go for two races, I was simply saying that they might not go for the four that everyone is assuming.

Ah, now see I read it as something to the effect of "only have two races at release and balance the piss out of them!". Perhaps I was mistaken on that notion?

Neither of us want a re-hash, and yeah as you probably read, I would NOT be happy with "DOW with COH engine" that most people are. So I think our opinions are not so different.

Indeed they aren't so different. After reading my previous reply, I realized the tone was a bit hostile overall. Hopefully it wasn't received in such a manner. :nervous:

[kommissarprower]

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Chaos Space Marines
Tyranids

[Schiannath]

I would like to say go quality over quantity people have just to races to start off with and have them really complete.
This would of course make it very easy to balance and in turn it would then make it very easy to add in more races with expansion packs because you can see what it missing.

As for what two races? awe hell i have no idea, I'll let you guys decide on that I'm gonna get the game regardless :)

[BubblesFloat]

nids ftw...

We have nothing like them, however I don't want their building system to be like that of the ones int he nid mod for dc, I think they would be much more suited to a single building that expands kinda like zerg creet only the creet itself would bethe building and it would be raised from the ground... it would be one massive organic building, which would expand depending on how many synapsis points you have and instead of acquiring strategic points for requisition you could be able to build a certain amount of nids compared to how big and advanced you synapsis local mind is, kinda like the necrons style of unit producer, but with maybe 3 buildings in total, the main base that expands, strategic point building that could make an area of whats-em-a-call it, the stuff nids need to operate, the hive mind or what ever its called, well yeah strategic points could act like conduits for that allowing nids to move around and build more freely, and maybe the builders would have infinite telleport radius, but it must be to another area of synapsis (lol woops just remembered the name, but I am too slack to look back through my post and fix it XP). the third building would be some minor form of the strategic point synapsis generator, but can be built any where, the only problems being that its aoe would be small and so there fore you wouldn't be able to make massive colonies on one.

The orcs need an overhaul, instead of their current building type, they should make orcy forts :D where you can build ramshackle old walls just at the rim, that would be awesome :O and maybe gretchins should finally be able to comandeer vehicles when the vehicle is on very low health... :D

[Warp Holder]

Nids, Eldar and SM.
I'd love to see Tau instead of Eldar, but those Space Elves are more 40,000 than the Commie Gundams...

[BubblesFloat]

:O.... lies warp holder, lies...

nothing is more 40k than fire warriors rampaging across a battle field, or a krootox ripping off some ones face :O...

[Frankie7508]

I'd say:
Tyranids
Space Marines
Imperial Guard(or Eldar/Orks)
Chaos Marines

[BubblesFloat]

actually rethinking about it, why don't they pull their finger out of their arse and have all the races we have so far >.>... the ideas are there, all they need to do is reskin and re animate... I would be fine with seeing generally similar units in dow2 to what we have right now... but thats because i know its gonna happen any way >.> XP

[SmellyTerror]

Not orks, please. Why? http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2889860#post2889860

Having both IG and SM is problematic, fluff wise, since you have to think of reasons for them to fight (or in the case of SS, just pretend it isn't a problem). I think they'll go with a storyline campaign, so I think IG should get the chop.

So my guesses:

Certain
SM (can't avoid it)
'Nids (to avoid lynching)

Probable
Eldar (obvious contrast with SM and 'Nids)
Chaos (easy to introduce a lot of demon variety)

(Note that everything above represents 4 of the more popular table-top sides, in my experience).

Possible
Tau (hard to balance their melee side with 'Nids)
Orks (see Tau, only more so. Also they suck balls)

Doubt it
IG (too hard to fit, fluff-wise)
SoB (ditto)
Necron (got plenty of shooters already, hard to keep within fluff and also balance)
DE (Eldar first, I think)

Personally I think we're looking at 3 sides, maybe 4.

[Rathos]

I would think:

Imperial Guard
Tyranids
Eldar
Chaos

All of these would certainly have a reason to fight each other, none of these races are similar. Space marines could assist IG during the campaign yet not available for skirmish/online until an expansion.

Gasp, no Space Marines? Yes I think the IG taking up the front man spot wouldn't do too much harm.

[Warp Holder]

the ideas are there, all they need to do is reskin and re animate...

I think it is much more than that.
If they make a completely new engine for DoW2, they will have to make everything from scratch.

[Captain Commie]

The races they must have:

SM: simply you cant have any good W40K with out them

CSM: cant have SM without CSM to fight

Orks: they're every were and good for fighting with your SM or IG

IG: simply put were theres humans there's IG, the two cant be seperated. You cant have a campain with out IG involvement anyways as we saw in vanilla DOW.


Races that are maybes:

Tyranids: they're a bitch to put into game engines, especialy anyones that require resources and building bases mostly because thats not what tyranids do. I dont think most people just want a zerg look alike but a new unique race. The challenges of implementing Tyranids would be very taxing on a game engine.

Eldar: mostly because they can fit into any situtation and we need some overly smart race of beings trying to control everyones destiny

Races that are definite expansion pack races:

First exspansion: Tau and Necrons

Second: DE SOB or anyother race

[BarxBaron]

Screw all of you.

Put in 4 different ork clans with 4 different aspiring warboss-wannabes. Just pick 4 clans at random to base each tribe style on....

Now THAT a good n' proper fight. ;)


and yes.... no orks = my $$ stays with my pocket till a expansion puts them in :P

(if you can't tell I'm a ork freak)

[Gabriel Angelos]

IG: simply put were theres humans there's IG, the two cant be seperated. You cant have a campain with out IG involvement anyways as we saw in vanilla DOW.

You will have Space Marines for sure so having 2 races from the same faction(Imperial of man) would be silly and a waist of race space.

Better combine Chaos and Imperial Guard, there you got Demons,Chaos Marines and loads of crazy IG.

I explained WHY it would be ideal with gamplay and Unit facts and not just why I tought it was cool.

Space Marines and Tyranids are for sure, so you got 2 races left.
Tyranids are going to be the main antagonists of the game cause they are making their debut in dow so to not make competition to their place but you still want chaos then go for Lost and the Damed, you got CSM and Demons there too.

I am not supporting Imperial Guard cause having 2 races from the same faction doesnt sound like variety to me.

[Imperial Honour]

The Imperium of Man is definately not a faction, it most definately is a galatic empire with many factions under its control though in my opinion. Whether they be the loyal and noble Space Marines, the Inquisitorial Forces or the regiments of the Imperial Guard, who serve to die on the battlefield each day to hold back the enemies of the Imperium. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard have two very different gameplay styles, going by TT\Fluff anyway, for the Imperial Guard are normal humans equiped with a mere flak body armour and armed with a flashlight (:P) who use numbers to overcome their foes. Yet the Space Marines, servants of the Emperorm are small in number yet elite troops capable of fast precision strikes or slogging it out in a massive pitched battle, often with the finest technology in the Imperium as well so they can operate in the various conditions and objectives they face. There is much difference, even in there art to set them apart whether they both be from that galatic empire we all know and love\hate the Imperium of Man.

Thats my opinion anyway...

[Znuff]

Tyranids: they're a bitch to put into game engines, especialy anyones that require resources and building bases mostly because thats not what tyranids do. I dont think most people just want a zerg look alike but a new unique race. The challenges of implementing Tyranids would be very taxing on a game engine.Actualy, aquiring resources is exactly what Tyrranids are all about. The only difference is that they arent interested in minerals but organic matter. The entire goal of Tyrranids are to convert all biomass on a planet into Tyrranids and then load em up and do it again on the next planet. So while they arent mining so are they collecting all the plants and animals in the area. You could for instance have ripper swarms moving about around the points simulating collecting biomass and they would also work as the defence for the points. They also have seed pod thingies (dont remember the name, but they drop down from orbit anyway) that produce Tyrranids, so that can obviously be their base and production building. :corn:

[Imperial Honour]

Well the Tyranids could always get their resources from killing people and such, they are being compared to the Zerg rush by people so having to kill your opponents stuff to get more resources fits that in a sense.

[Corbie]

Sounds like the Nids would work similar to the Necrons.. except they would only need requisition..rather than Power.

[Arcturus]

I understand a lot of people like Imperial Guard and all, but a Space Marines, Chaos, Imp. Guard, Nids release would be really boring, one Imperium group is enough.

I would love to see:
Marines
Chaos
Eldar
Tyranids

and hopefully a continuation of the original DoW plotline with that Demon and Angelos, and Tyranids entering the fray.

[Imperial Honour]

Were anyone in the business solely for the money they could save the Tyranids for an expansion (not stand-alone) that requires all the previous titles, sure they might lose some sales from disgruntled Tyranids wanters and such early on in the series, BUT they could possibly make more money from including Tyranids later and making them require all the previous titles in a Dawn of War 2 series.

[Corbie]

That is how expansions used to work Imperial.. and actually that is how alot of them still DO work.

Making an expansion "stand alone" (meaning it doesnt need the previous title to be played.. is actually a business decision intended to make more money..since, theoretically, more people will buy the game if they dont have to ALSO spend money on the previous incarnations.

[Imperial Honour]

Could go either way really, because you could either think, well people will just wait for the Stand Alone Expansion featuring the Tyranids or "Well if people only have to buy one game to play their favourite race then they will be more like to buy the Game".

[BubblesFloat]

warp holder...

I think it is much more than that.
If they make a completely new engine for DoW2, they will have to make everything from scratch.

I think you missed what I am saying, of course there will be a new engine and they will start from scratch, but all the unit ideas are already visible, they are in the game right now, so there goes a butt load of work, having to come up with new character designs, but of course they also need to reskin them and reanimate as it will look out of date on a new engine. sure its gonna take forever to make, but they already have the base line for the project out of the way. :D

captan commie...

Tyranids: they're a bitch to put into game engines, especialy anyones that require resources and building bases mostly because thats not what tyranids do. I dont think most people just want a zerg look alike but a new unique race. The challenges of implementing Tyranids would be very taxing on a game engine.

hate to break it to ya spud, but there is a mod for dc that is of fairly high quality featuring the nids, there is no reason that they can't be implemented other than relic being slack.

EDIT...

imperial honour...

Well the Tyranids could always get their resources from killing people and such, they are being compared to the Zerg rush by people so having to kill your opponents stuff to get more resources fits that in a sense.

just going out on a limb here, but you realise the zerg are based on the nids >.>... there was a court case about it, GW was gonna lay the smack down on blizzard >.> Blizzard got away with it because zerg has individual personalities amongst the mindless, there was that ho' and then every other conduit mind... I fail to see how it makes them any different really, its just like the hives >.>... so after all that they will naturally have the same strats

[Gabriel Angelos]

Most people just want to have Tyranids remplacing the orks, and I belive that DOW2 should be different and not the same style of things.

The Imperium of Man is definately not a faction, it most definately is a galatic empire with many factions under its control though in my opinion. Whether they be the loyal and noble Space Marines, the Inquisitorial Forces or the regiments of the Imperial Guard, who serve to die on the battlefield each day to hold back the enemies of the Imperium. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard have two very different gameplay styles, going by TT\Fluff anyway, for the Imperial Guard are normal humans equiped with a mere flak body armour and armed with a flashlight (:P) who use numbers to overcome their foes. Yet the Space Marines, servants of the Emperorm are small in number yet elite troops capable of fast precision strikes or slogging it out in a massive pitched battle, often with the finest technology in the Imperium as well so they can operate in the various conditions and objectives they face. There is much difference, even in there art to set them apart whether they both be from that galatic empire we all know and love\hate the Imperium of Man.

Both are humans and from the same side, so if a campaign or metamap styled one ever comes another imperium vs imperium would just be silly.

The limit of raves would be probably 4 and the ones that I belive wont change are Space Marines,Tyranids and Eldar.
This would leave a slot for chaos or Imperial guard.
And belive it or not you can have both with the Lost and The Damed.

Just because there are space marines doesnt mean you need to have bad space marines, if so then I would say the same about the Eldar, put Dark Eldar cause there cant be eldar without their evil counterparts.

[Imperial Honour]

Space Marines are not human, they are Super human there be a difference :P... Actually the Imperial Guard are not entirely human they have their squads of Ratling Snipers, there brute force Ogryns and other mutans and such. Linear campaigns do not have Imperium v Imperium though, look at Dawn of War and Winter Assault, the Imperial Guard PDF and Ultramarines were factored into the story easily without being foes, could do the same for a meta-map campaign if your determined enough to not have a Space Marines v Imperial Guard situation. Heck the campaign could be like WA with Order and Disorder which would still work and you wouldn't need to have a Imperium v Imperium situation just becuase there in the game together.

[Gabriel Angelos]

The point is that both serve to the emperor and they ususally never fight eachother except when one goes rouge.

Seriously wath is wrong with the Lost and The dammed? I think its a great idea in order to include 2 factions in 1 race.

[Imperial Honour]

Unless your in Dawn of War and playing in Multiplayer or Skirmish then its all for themselves unless allied together obviously... The points being though? a campaign doesn't have to have all the races fight each other, you could have two race co-operate throughout the campaign, look at the final mission in Dawn of War for an example of what perhaps could happen as in having Allies to "aid" you through the missions. So you do not want another Imperium v Imperium thing, apart from that and it being rarely likely if we have a linear campaign and the continuation of the Gabriel Angelos story from where it left off where lies the problem apart from being both being humans and from the Imperium.

[Gabriel Angelos]

Dawn Of War Original had 4 different factions, none of them from the same side, I think the sequel should go the same way in that aspect.Besides wath is wrong with having Evil Imperial Guard mixed with chaos stuff?
Most people here just want a purist choas or IG, and going up to have 2 to 3 Human based armies.

[BubblesFloat]

look there is nothing wrong with having both IG and SM, as it is an attempt to add every army to the fray, it was bound to happen some time and I am thankful it did as its good as a first time players race, with everything being rather quick and easy to get a hold of you can learn the ropes within your first few battles rather than stuffing around with easy bots for a few weeks before it all becomes clear :D...

Besides that they are a major part of any Imperial conquest, there are rarely times when both factions don't work together as IG are the perfect support army, while lacking in direct strength they make up for it in tactical skill. To lose IG would be a slap to the face of the emperor himself, saying that his men aren't good enough for war... besides that who would soak up my stealth suit fire... its not like they can kill anything stronger than your base IG squad XP... jokes

[Corbie]

well id like to see IG come in the final expansion for DOW2.. that way we can avoid YEARS of fanboys crying about how the IG and SM are fighting each other in the campaign.

Im so tired of hearing that crap.

[matthew]

i think everyones forgot that the new 'race' codex is out soon !

Chaos Daemons!

So with that in mind... here are my choices for DOW 2...

Chaos Daemons!
Tyranids

Eldar (to oppose slaanish daemons etc) (with more Harlequins!)
Space Marines (Ultramarines in the campaign) Fluff wise, they're the SMs who mostly fight 'nids.

Campaign: youre buildings stay put when you leave a map! :cool:

[Eisenhorn538]

Putting Chaos and IG together is just plain lazy and is going to drive fans away. I'm an IG fan and I wouldn't play them because they're traitors and because I don't like the play style of Chaos (close combat etc.) and I'm sure some Chaos fans are gonna be pushed away because they don't want weak troops replacing their Chaos Marines.

In the end all I can see it leading to is a horrible mix of both races. There's absolutely no reason why Relic can put both factions in. I'm happy to wait for an expansion to play my Guard again.

[dams]

The races I am going to propose arent the ones which I prefer but the ones I believe should exist as the first DoW 2 races.Many people wanted imperial guard space marines etc I think there should be 1 imperium of man race(space marines most likely)and the rest to be added as expansion content.Second should go the Tau who are very different from the other races making another diverse race and afterwards the Tyranids which are asked by many many many DoW fans.And the 4th race could be the Orks for diverse race reasons.Also a 5th race in my opinion would be a good idea and Eldar are the ones imo.The rest of the Warhammer 40k races should be added with expansions 1 at the first expansion like WA and then 2 by 2.

[Tseng_Fox]

Why not add Lost and the Damned as a different race then? that way IG and Chaos are not changed.

[Gabriel Angelos]

Why not add Lost and the Damned as a different race then? that way IG and Chaos are not changed.

Thats wath I am suggesting but everyone is just waay to purist and want to have Imperial Guard and space marines.

Remember this is not about wath race would you like more, I would leave Loyalist Imperial Guard for an expansion and would leave 4 races from different factions on the initial game.

Also Tyranids and Orks on the same expansion wont work cause both are swarm like and close combat oriented.

Chaos is Cloe combat oriented but lost and the dammed arent, tought it is true they ve got stronger close combat units than the loyal imperial guard wich would make them not that vulnerable like the current ones.

[medizichen]

even if ig arent a race in dow 2 i'm pretty sure they'll appear in some rudimentary form in the single player campaign (vanilla dow) which i pray to god wont be one like dc or ss.

and if tyrannids are in dow2, hopefully they'll be clever enough not to have voice actors for them. heh.

[Tseng_Fox]

I think it might be better for 1-2 races that are well known for the first one (space marines, chaos, tyranids etc) and 1-2 less well known ones (Dark Eldar, Inqusition, Lost and Damned etc)

why? well, make the main game have 4 races and you can do a WA style of campain. Choose 'order' and you have the Space Marines and Inquisition as allies fighting off against Chaos and their ally, Lost and the damned. Makes it much better as its linear but replyable.

[Corbie]

Personally I hope they stick with the campaign system of DC and SS..but also implement a real storyline to go along with it. Best of both worlds.

I like the idea of allies..and it could be achieved best with the first 4 races, imo, if they went with SM, IG, Chaos, and Dark Eldar. Yes Chaos and DE are not exactly "perfect" allies.. but they are two factions that follow the same principles/god(s) and they both have unique play styles.

then each expansion could either add to the 2 existing factions..or create another faction all-together.

Tau + Eldar for their own faction (again..its a loose alliance)
Necron + Tyranids (yah..this is getting pretty flimsy)
Inquisition for the "order" side, Orks for Chaos (very flimsy indeed)


Ok so maybe that wouldnt work. But i still like the idea of a DC style campaign with DOW style storyline.

[Tseng_Fox]

Dark Eldar don't follow the chaos gods. They eat souls so that theirs won't be eaten. They despise the chaos gods.

[Rook]

Necron wouldnt fit with Nids, they are kind of polar to one another.
necrons wanna kill all life while the nids want to eat everything so they can breed and expand there own life. the only thing in common is that every one else dies

or did you mean odd one to the "good" side and the other to the "evil" side but like you said its still flimsy :P

i really do like the idea of allies its stupid having this IoM civil war going on

i agree that having the SS/DC meta map (but good) with a good story line would be awesome

[Dot]

SM, Orks, Chaos, Eldar. The original four and a linear campaign.

[Switchking]

i agree that having the SS/DC meta map (but good) with a good story line would be awesome
No More metamap campaigns please!!, also, to those who don't know, necrons aren't turtlers, they are raiders,they strike from nowhere without any warning, they kill everyone , and dissapear, they should be something in between eldar and tyranids (they do not make any alliances), they would fit well, even with nids, or especially with nids, it would make the game a bit polar, but it would be good IMHO, but i would put there at the beginning SM, IG ,chaos & orcs (it is a must)also it would be cool to have an Eldars, Nids and necrons could be quite good expansion...

[Can Not]

What if DoW2 had all nine (like a port) but included Tyranids? or included Tyranids but went the route of Pokemon Red and Blue?

[Morkeau]

DOW2 Vanilla:
Imperial Guard
Tyranids
Orks

Parrallel to the fluff with some story appearances by SM; how the hivemind was diverted to fight the orks. Would be an excellent technology demonstration too, with massed ork, tyranid and IG armies.

The rest should remain in themed contrasting pairs; Eg;

DOW2 Astartes Exp1:
Space Marines
Chaos

DOW2 Eldar Exp2:
Eldar
Dark Eldar

DOW2 Young v. Old Exp3:
Tau
Necron

[Imperial Dane]

Space Marines for a start: Why ? They are iconic of the entire WH40k franchise, it would be a little odd and a little empty without them.

Imperial Guard: Well considering that most attacks happen on human settled worlds, you kinda need the IG, at least to play PDF, and that could be really fun actually for a campaign with the IG i would imagine. Plus i like IG :)

Chaos: Well things would be a little dull without these psychopaths and all their funny tricks.

Orks: Well if you mix them with the CoH engine i am sure you could get some fun things with looting, plus they are kinda a standard foe.

Tyranids: This is not for a fifth race, more either this, orks or Chaos, i am certain they would be fun, but a campaign wouldn't be that interesting or deep i imagine, would mostly be a bunch of defensive missions, and make a campaign where you play them ? Well i would be curious how they pull of the hive mind thing.

[Kalledon]

I expect DoW2 to probably have 4-6 armies at release, unless they are able to easily transfer the armies from DoW into it.

Definitely in
Space Marines - You just gotta have them in 40K

Tyranids - Since they weren't in DoW, fans are likely to lynch relic if they don't get into DoW2

Eldar - Ancient, "wise," mysterious race quota

1-3 of these will be in (no particular order)
Tau - Their army is different enough from other 40K armies to make them a good pick

Chaos - Evil and good analog to Space Marines

Imperial Guard - Good defense oriented army

Necrons - Slow heavy hitting army, plus evil

Orks - WWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGG

These armies will only be in if they can transfer DoW armies in
Dark Eldar - Glass Cannon x100; Very small fan base

Sisters of Battle - Small fan base and I'd expect both IG and SM to make it in first, giving the Imperium a strong showing to start

Lost and the Damned - Seriously small fan base

[Elerium]

Demiurg, Genestealer Cults, Thyrrus and Hrud ;)

Nah on a serious note I'd say some sort of campaign seperate from Chaos taint and such for now. I'm thinking perhaps some private war on the Eastern Edge?, so that means Tau, Space Marines, Orks, IG and Tyranids. 5 Sides is possible and should look alright, the concepts and such are there from the first DoW game, despite it being out slightly longer than usual I guess it'll keep us all busy for quite some time. A Chaos expansion could be introduced as well (this time taking place away from the Eastern Edge), along with the Necrons, Witch Hunters and Dark Eldar and Eldar (heck you could put DE and Eldar in their own expansion, both under the story of trying to outdo the other in mystery with all the interruption by all the sides and stick Necrons/Chaos/WH in another).

[Mosh4Life]

Face the truth.
SM are in it FACT.
Theyre the sorta mascot of the DoW series. Theyre the middle ground of all races.
Chaos are therefore almost gaurented to be in to contrast. Theyre the oposite of the SM and would give the classic "Good vs. Evil" that makes us buy games every time [eg. Final fantasy, Resident evil, Spyro, Halo. All on the good vs. evil formula]

The next are admitedly debateable
But agen its sorta obv. which are viable choices.
Necrons, Sob && DE will NOT be in DoW 2 until the expanshions

This leaves the Tau, Eldar, IG, Orks && Tyranids
Rationally Tau will most probs not be in. Due to theyre difficult play style. The vanilla game should be easy to pick up and play even if you havent played a RTS before. Tau are too complex to be beginner friendly. They die too fast and relly heavily on ranged surport where other armys can afford to not have alot of ranged units. But compaired to Necrons, and DE they are more user friendly.
Tyranids vs Orks, both a melee based race, and little complications. But seein the demand for tyranids, they nids will be the melee race for DoW.
For balance, we now have 1 "good" race and 2 "evil" races.
To balance this there needs to be another "good" race
This leaves IG or Eldar. The IG are very much like the Tau in sum respects, they require lots of care as theyre so fragile. They also require veical surport. Although not the hardest of races to play, this is still rather hard. In comparison the Eldar arent plain salein to play, but aint that demandin. Although they use hard counters, its still fesable to play them as a beginner. So Eldar would be in.

Im presumin here that thy put in 4 races. Due to time to make the game and to have this "good/evil" balance. There may well be a extra race added if theres time. But thats unlikly. If it does happen though it will be IG or Orks.

Thx for readin all that ;]

Mosh4Life =]

[Kalledon]

I wouldn't rule in Chaos just because of the predestined inclusion of Space Marines. If you want a good 40K Good vs. "Evil" you don't have to look any further than Ultramarines vs. Tyranids. Since we can pretty much assume Tyranids (being the one army not introduced in DoW) are in so it's not a huge stretch to assumed they will be paired off against Ultramarines.

That leaves the door open for a second evil race. It could still be chaos, or Relic could choose to go Dark Eldar or Necrons since they were both added so late in the DoW series. I doubt well have Orks simply because while they have certainly different mechanics, they still have a bit of a swarm army feel to them that would make them feel somewhat redundant to the Nids.

[m10 101]

who says it has to be 4 factions, well any way, I would go with 6: Space Marines (Obivious)
Eldar
Imperial Guard
Chaos
Tyranids
Orks

[Ghengiskhan]

IMHO you can't /won't get more than 4 factions in DoW2, maybe even less. They will have to completely build every faction from the ground up. more than 3 or 4 and you'll see either obscene development times or shoddy work. 3 or 4 is fine with me with more factions coming out in expansions.

i think the factions will be
SM + CSM + Tyr + Eldar which isn't my personal choice but thats what makes sense. I'll miss my beloved orcs until they release them in a future xp.

If they do the doctrine tree thing like CoH (which i think could be a great idea especially for chaos) it will take some time to even balance and fill out 4 factions.

[m10 101]

actually I seen brand new games with 6+ races that played allright, it just depends on devs commiting themselves, and the Publishers giving them time.

[OldOfEvil]

We need Tyranids!

[YuriStriatov]

Why do we need Tyranids? I don't need Tyranids, and I have no idea why are people peeing themselves so much for them. Why, people, why?

Here's what I think will come up:
Space Marines - all round exterminators
Tau - shooty army
Chaos - melee army
Eldar - stealthy army

One could also add Orks for the massing army, but every other game nowadays has a massing army. So I dunno.

[Shakrith]

Clearly Space Marines are in, and clearly some form of Chaos must be in, as these basically define the 40k universe.

I can't see, however, why everyone is saying that Eldar are necessarily in. Sure, everyone likes them, in a general sense. They're cool, they're alien, they're different, but they're not all that different from the more tasty Dark Eldar, and the cool, alien aesthetic applies equally well to Tau, who personally I would prefer to Eldar for the first release.

I think Nids are fairly certain if DoW 2 is going for an epic feel. If we're going to get massed armies, I can't see how Nids wouldn't be in it. I can, however, imagine a grittier Kill-Team sort of game, like Company of Heroes, and the Nids wouldn't fit into that well at all. Orks would be a melee race then.

The Imperial Guard, I think, would be a very important part of DoW 2, and whether or not they're a playable race in it or they're just auxiliaries like in vanilla, they need to be there to make sure people know the Imperium is more than just the glamorous Space Marines.

So here's how I see it:

Space Marines
Chaos
Tau
Nids
(Imperial Guard)

[Vrugar Gutslice]

Think I'll put my two bob in about this subject in both regards to number of factions and faction makeup.

Two Races: In my opinion this would be a bad idea, while it would allow for a more heavy focus on the seperate factions the potential downsides I could see are;

1: Lack of Diversity for a campaign and multiplayer setting.

2: Problems with muti race balance in later expansions: At first each faction would be exclusively balanced against each other.

Fast forward to whatever expansion with extra factions and all that balancing will most likely have to be chucked out the window and the whole thing rebalanced again.

3: Lack of factional options; since there's only one opponent certain factional options may very well be rendered usless/undesireable depending on the opponent faction.

While this could save alot of dev time, it's not likely to impress the players having such limited options for their possibel favourite races.

May also lead to the dreaded 1 and a half team syndrome that plagued many RTS in the past.

Suggested Factions for 2 team limit:

Space Marines: I don't like em, but they're popular and GW's poster boys, can't see it without them.

Tyranids: Only big faction that never made into the original DoW; Tryanid fans of course want them and other people may be curious to see how they play.

Chaos: In my opinion the least likely to get in for a 2 race faction, as it was in DoW they were a bit too close to SM as it was; for Chaos to work (and this should be for them whenever they get in) they need some serious work to differtiate them from regular SM. Relic should use the 3rd edition Codex as a major source with a sprinkling of 4th edition stuff.

Three races: In my opinion the very minimum number of races required for the sequel, still could be possible problems.

1: More likely to have a basic multirace balance, easier to work with for future expansions.

2: Depending on the combination of races there still could be a lack of options.

3: More diversity for a multiplayer setting, but perhapsstill perhaps too small for a good campaign setting. (Remember DoW had 4 races and the guest IG for the campaign)

Suggested factions for two team limit:

Space Marines: Enough said.

Tyranids: As above.

Chaos: As above, but not ideal; would force most Tyranid Broods to take Rending Claws (If an option) to counteract SM and CSM Power Armour. Tyranid ranged weapons as per codex also don't have very good AP for most of the part which would also help make them feel overly weak against both SM and CSM.

Orks: Orks are the most warlike race in the galaxy easy to add from a campaign stand point as the Orks will fight anything. The Orks also have a large range of various unit types that could be used effectively against most races. (Put more Looted Vechiles in! I know the latest codex removed them but it really helps to give da boyz an extra edge.

Eldar: Can't really say much about the Eldar other then they'd cuase the Tyranids the same AP problem as SM and CSM. Campaign wise they seem easy enough to write in so bonus points there. Minus points however if combined SM and Tryanids as more undecided gamers may decide (with the help of more ignorant gamers) that DoW is really a Starcraft ripoff... yeah we know it's not, but those not in the know don't know otherwise. This is would be a purely sales issue.

Imperial Guard: The Guard in my opinion didn't get the justice they deserved, DOW 2 should hopefully have enough options to make them a more interesting race to play as. They fit into a campaign setting well when allied with SM, they're a massed shooty race and the avoid being so overarmoured that a Tryanid race has to focus on a specific upgrade path to help counter that.

Preferance order; SM, 'Nids, Orks/IG, Chaos, Eldar.

At this point I think the 6 races suggested cover the more important factions from DoW, Yes I know Tau have been left out (Good for options harder for campaign perhaps, don't want more Meta Map garbage) The Necrons, well the thing about them is I'm A: really not sure how well they can be written into a campaign and B: There's nothing really more they can be given.

Now I haven't really played SS much it runs terribly on my computer, so I won't comment on DE in regards to the Sisters of Battle though I think they should be saved for a latter expansion, I'll go into that a little later.

Suggested Factions for 4 team limit:
Any of the big 6 I mentioned as long as it doesn't contain SM, CSM and Eldar and the Nids tacked on, too much powered armour to overcome = too many limited options.

5 team limit: In this situation I'd see Orks/IG as the last ones left.

6 Team limit: The ideal number in my opinion, allthough probably not the realistic one (That's probably 4) Would have all the more major factions.

Expansions: Each expansion should look to add 2-3 races in my opinion. First expansion should bring it up to the big 6 I mentioned.

A Second Expansion should include the left out major factions Tau, Necrons and DE.

A thrid Expansion if they do one should add the more minor/ add on factions. In this case The Inquisition. Rather then splitting them up into seperate factions The Inquisition could cover The Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos (If there's any more info on them by the time) The team should start off with an inquistorial stronghold which at first can only produce the basic Inqusition troops (aka Stromtroopers).

The player could then select the specific Ordo through an upgrade and then appropriate chamber millitant and/or allies.

Could also expand the SM and IG armies with Inquisitorial allies.

This next one might be a bit out there, but I'd like to see a Lost and the Damned army, not only would they make good opponents for two of the Inquisitions, but also add a bit more flavour to Chaos as a whole, (Not all of them are Marines) An Appropriate army list however would have to be cobbled together from any older material concerning them, The 3rd edition CSM Codex for cultists, The Daemon Hunters codex concerning daemonic possession, The Witch hunters Codex in regards to Rogue Psykers, Apostate Cardinals, Mutants and Traitors and probably Forgeworld's Imperial Armour 5 I think.

[Mossa]

Space Marines is needed. I also think Eldars and Orks have to be in it.

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Eldars
Chaos
Tyranids
Orks

Expansion
Dark Eldars "witches"
Sisters of Battle "witch hunters" Even tho Eldars also fall under the witches "and alien" I think SoB's is a good counter vs Dark Eldar.
Tau
Necrons

Maybee some sort of Tyranid attack story.
Space Marines "Ultramarines"
Tau
Tyranids
And uuuh.. Another more evil race. "DE, Nec, Ork, Chaos"

[Iwasfrozen]

I think
Space Marines (GW poster boys)
Orkz (Humor)
Chaos (The antagonist of the Imperium)
Eldar (Harder to play and stops the game getting "boring")
Tyranids (I hate them and Relic would make more money putting them in an expansion, but as said earlier Canada will burn if their not included.)

[dams]

@Mossa Orks arent ''evil'' they are simply crazy green maniacs who love fighting.

I believe:
Space Marines:W40k game cant be done without them(huge fanclub)
Tyranids:I dont like them either but that's what most people ask and ones that dont like them must accept them if they want the game to sell good so it gets patched and given expansions.
Orks:A perfect CC race which is also very diverse from the rest giving a variety to the game.
Tau:NOT because they are my favorite because they are a ranged army contrary to the orks and tyranids,they are also very diverse from the rest(high-tech alien race,batlesuits,other alien allies)and could be well implemented in a campaign where the tynarids invade in Tau territory,Space Marines come to repel them in fear of crushing the Tau and attacking Imperium planets and orks smelling the battle,getting excited and preparing to crush humies and bugz.


Also a 5th race could be implemented which I believe should be not Chaos because of their similarity to SM and they are also alll-consuming like tyranids,no necrons who they arent popular anyway,no another imperium race because there are already SM,so Eldar should be the 5th race who are diverse,popular and fit well in the campaign mentioned above.Dark Eldar could be aswell but in my opinion Eldar have priority.

[random guy]

Why only 4 races, they'll probably have them all and expand from there. You can't go back once you have included a race. Am i wrong?

[Riess]

You are wrong. They don't already have them all included if they're building a new game from the ground up. They'd need new concepts, new art assets, models, textures, animations for all units and buildings to fit the new engine. New balance to fit new gameplay elements.
The development time and costs would go into the unmanageable. It's possible, although very unlikely that there'd be more than 4, at most 5 races at start, practically impossible that we'll see the full roster of SS.

[Insight]

As stated many times, the original DoW races will most likely be in DoW2, plus Tyranids due to very high demand.


Space Marines
Chaos
Orks
Eldar
Tyranids


I'd kill for Imperial Guard in DoW2 Original, but I guess that's a long shot. I'll just have to wait for the expansions. :(

[JoeCool1837]

I saw a rumour that the Orks wouldn't make it, just SM, Chaos Marines, Eldar and the Tyranids. Just get the same treatment the Imperial Guard did in the original Dawn of War. We'll see what happens. :salute:

[RMX]

I enjoy all things orky, so I'm gonna miss them in DoW2, and yea, with 'nids in, them and IG are going to be missed by many until we get an expansion

[dams]

JoeCool1973 where you saw that rumor?-.-

[Warp Holder]

JoeCool1973 where you saw that rumor?-.-

Possibly in the THQ survey a couple of months ago...
Only SM, Eldar and Nids would e in DoW2, according to that survey.

[JoeCool1837]

No survey, a little birdie told me. It makes sense though, the Tyranid and Ork races overlap in style of play.

[dams]

only 3 races would create a short-life game in my opinion they should have at least 4 if not 5 well implemented with a variety of upgrades(not like necrons who have 7 upgrades in total!)units and play styles and later add the rest of the races.

[Vrugar Gutslice]

Well the thing about Necrons is that they bascically only do have that many number of upgrades TT wise, not exactly a hugely diverse race.

[Zany Reaper]

- Space Marines (as your standard, tough-guy army)
- Lost & the Damned (takes the place of Chaos, but also has more fragile infantry. There for having a wide range of specialist units)
- Tyranids (melee army)
- (possibly) Tau (shooting army).

Other races wouldn't really be necessary as they're just not as extreme as the 4 suggested above. Ideally an inquisition race would be shoved in an expansion, along with maybe Orks, or some other race.

Why Tau instead of Eldar? I just think it's better to have a strong firepower army in there, if Nids are to be the strong melee equivalent (technically Orks are, but Tyranids are more original & alien). Each race would easily be diverse, so playing styles/tactics wouldn't overlap lots.

[Vrugar Gutslice]

Honestly I'd like to see something unique for some Ork and Ork looted vehicles, in this case some of the unique upgrades they have in TT to do pseudo melee attacks to other vechiles. Reinforced rams & wrecker balls for ramming and smashing attacks. Boarding platform would be nice, but I think perhaps a bit too hard to work in properly. Also grabber claws to stop other enemy vehicles dead in their place.

Also don't forget most Ork vehicles are also open topped transports so you can have all the boyz firing from top & some bolt on big shootas.

[Dooks Dizzo]

Space Marines
I know it might be nice to see a game that didn't feature Marines but come on, they are just too cool to dismiss. If it were up to me I would definitely push the 'elite super soldiers' theme of the race as far as viable.

Giving the army a unique feel due to it's low numbers and blingy individual squads.

I would prefer to see the race with less reliance on tanks and more on its soldiers. Rhino's, Razorbacks and Dreadnoughts would be cool as the only 'armor' for the race. Failing that, allowing very limited tank support, such as a max total of 3 tanks.

Tyranids
They are just one of the best bad guys in sci fi. Everyone does giant evil bugs in space for a reason and that reason is they kick ass and are a lot of fun to blow holes in. Period.

The Tyranids present an excellent antagonist for a campaign since almost any faction in 40k will stop what they're doing and fight the bugs. They may not be allies, but they'll generally leave each other alone until the true menace is defeated.

Chaos Daemons!
With a brand new codex coming out Chaos Daemon have their own army, not just an extension of Chaos Space Marines.

They would add a totally unique feel to the game as a race being not completely horde or elite. I nice strike right between Tyranids and Marines. With Daemonic engines (Soulgrinder!), and so many named big guys you have a lot of really cool things to work with in this list.

It also opens up for Grey Knights to be added to Marines and make sense.

Option 2
Space Marines

Imperial Guard

Chaos Space Marines

Chaos Daemons

BOOM! a big old nasty Imperium of Man versus the forces of corruption. Both sides having their own horde and elite armies, both sides fully fleshed out and realized.


For now I would just leave it at that. With all the new things the engine is bringing us, I don't think it needs to be over done on the the races. I would much prefer to see less races more fully realized than the other way around.

[Shaitan]

My only question would be how Grey Knights would balance out vs Daemons, since they are supposed to wtfpwn them, I'm guessing? Even if Grey Knights were a doctrine choice for space marines (or something) wouldn't that entail one doctrine that would be really good against an army. It seems difficult to balance while remaining fluffy.

That being said, seeing the new Chaos Daemons army makes me realize how much Chaos really has going for it. You could easily make a faction out of Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, and then still have to account for cultists and traitor guard etc.

[Felipe_Panzer]

DOW 2 needs to have 2 human races and 2 "plague" races

Space Marines
Sisters of battle/Imperial Guard
Orks (made for fight!! and win!!!)
Tiranids/Chaos Marines

Or

Put All the races avaiable now!!!!! Whats the prob?

[Versian]

The prob is it takes time any money to make a race.

I'd like to see 5

SM (Cause Warhammer 40k wouldn't be Warhammer 40k without SM)
CSM (cause SM wouldn't be SM without CSM)
Orks, cause they are a very important part of 40k
Eldar, to complete the "fantasy in space" feeling.
5th up for grabs. I don't really care who, I just want a 5th race.

[Triceron]

I think it's going to be SM, IG, Orks and Tyranids.

Reason is because currently SM and Orks are present, and Eldar and Chaos are obvious choices because of DoW1. However I think for DoW2, Tyranids will be available as something every fan wanted from the very beginning. Of course to compliment this, we'd have IG in the mid. The Eldar don't have as much of a compliment to Tyranids as much as IG.


Ideally though, I'd like to see SM and Orks in the first game, with 3 pairings of other races either appearing as the 3rd and 4th races or in complimentary expansions. SM and Orks are present in all corners of space, while the remaining pairings would represent different areas of the 40k Universe.

1. IG and Chaos. These two races could represent a battle near the Eye, classic Cadians vs Chaos scenario.

2. Eldar and Necrons. Two ancient races, the eternal battle between the Old Ones and the C'tan.

3. Tau and Tyranids. Battles in the Eastern Fringe. Two alien races encroaching on the imperium's border.

[Tcharzanek]

I would like all the current races to remain, as it would be ridiculous to take them out now, and Tyranids to add close combat punch to the game and a strong narrative sense. You know the 'Great Devourer' sort of thing.

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There is no escape from Chaos.....it marks us all

:muffy: For the Lord of Change!

[PathFinder]

i personally dont understand the craze behind Tyranids. they are really cool, i give them that. but ork already handle the close combat wing of the dow game. are tyranids that much different?

my line up would be,
SM
Ork
Chaos <- you really need chaos to serve as the main antagonists.
Eldar or Tau.

i personally like tau. but that's just me.

[Custom Robo]

Imperial Guard
Chaos Space Marines
Orks
Eldar

Imperial guard for the "good guy" faction with weak infantry and strong vehicles and defense.
Chaos Undivided for the clear cut bad guyP{no matter what you say chaos is evil}with high casualties and strong late game.
Orks for the second bad guy faction with massive hordes of weak units.
Eldar for the mysterious "what side are they on?" vibe with weak stealthy units who require skill to play.

[Shuma]

You missed the Space Marines.

[Techlology]

How about imperium as a whole faction, including IG and SM

[Shakrith]

The Imperium is not a whole faction. It exists in a state of semi-permanent civil war, where there are so many states within the state (Space Marines, Inquisition, Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Guard - and that's just the military components! Let's not forget the Ecclesiarchy, the various local planetary governors, the astropaths...) that a significant fraction of its resources are spent alternately undermining and trying to hold together the Imperium of Man.

Therefore, Marines and IG must be different factions.

[ConanBuddah]

I am thinking that to start off with we will see the exact same races in the original dawn of war. As much as I would be disappointed, I do not think the tyranids will be in dow 2 from the start because they are too similar to the orks.

But I think there will be an equal split between good/evil in the races. Like in the original dawn of war you had space marines and eldar and on the other hand chaos and the orks.

So the good (or at least in my eyes portrayed as good):

Space Marines, Tau, Imperial Guard, Eldar

The evil:

Chaos, Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons

[Shuma]

There's no good. The Generic Guardsmen is the closest thing to a good guy in WH40k.

[Tombs]

As you know, I'm rooting for a Harlequin army eventually! Bwhaha!

I guess if they did implement the Harlequins, they would all be treated as elites, so there would not be other troops to be added to each unit, other than perhaps the mimes. With the immediate need to pump out troops, the build of multiple circus tents (for unit and troop building) would probably be needed. Their holofield armor would allow for auto anti infantry targeting and cause panic. Their anti-grav belts would allow for various aerial assaults, dodging and skills, and mostly since they are not known to have ground to air shock troops. Special abilities such from the Laughing God would available as akin to those offered with the Dark Eldar. Perhaps skills entitled "Curtain Call", "The Last Laugh," and/or "Encore." I'm guessing their magic would be some of the most powerful and arcane, since they are the wielders and protectors of The Black Library. They would probably have the smallest army/faction in the whole game, but what they may lack in numbers, they will provide in sheer speed, firepower, etc. No one really knows the Harlequins attitude and/or psychology for sure, if anything, spending so much time in the warp, they longer have much use for arrogance, instead they just laugh and smirk at everything, and no one really understands any of their actions and/or reactions at a full extent...

[Kien]

I hope they will not spend time on making any dark eldar or sisters of battle or daemon hunters. :)

[Tcharzanek]

I would like the Tyranids so we could get tonnes of little 'nids and swarm our enemies. That is why I'd like Tyranids.


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[Deacon412]

massive hordes of weak units.
:wtf:



Since i beleive their are only 3 and two have been confirmed
id say space marines, Tyranids and orks

[Terrordar]

How do we know there will only be three races? Hm?

[Deacon412]

its just a guess im probly wrong

[DeafMute]

SM - Orks - Nids.

is a forth is included. It will be either Chaos (Although I reckon they will get an expansion) or IG.

I personally think they will just settle for the 3 races I listed uptop.

Just to wet players appetites. Then release an expansion 12 months after. Makes alot of sense from the business point of view.

[Panama]

Space Marine
Orks
Tyranids
Eldar

Two of the races I want are in, I could probably live without nids but I certainly neeeeeed Eldar. There needs to be 2 "good" and 2 "evil" races.

[DeafMute]

Good and evil are only perceptions from a single being. Each one see things as good. Or bad.

SM are seen as evil and good. Orks evil and funny. chaos good and evil. IG good/gullible. eldar stuck up. Tau, self rightous. Dark eldar, greedy. Necrons, boring.

All races have good and bad sides. SO I really do not think you can strictly have 2 good races or 2 bad.

[lokkee]

Chaos is getting too big
Getting it done right implies a fully dedicated expansion (plus perhaps Dark eldar)

So apart from the obvious,
Space Marines
Orks
I suspect
Tyranids
Either Imperial guard or Eldar (Imperial would make more sense in a campaign mode)

[Energizer Bunny]

SM - Definate
Orks - Definate
Chaos - Pretty much a certainty
Nids - I hope they get in over Eldar if there's only 4 races

I'd be happy to leave it at that TBH. I don't see the logic for an equal number of good and bad races. Why?

[cannonfodder]

Well, it'd cater more to multiplayer preferences - I think. I know a lot of people who refuse to play "evil races", no matter how stupid that sounds. Not sure if this works in Dawn of War too, though - each race seems to have it's fanbase, so they'll likely stick with their favourite - or the one closest to it. Still, if it kicks in, you'll see a loooot of SM players.

[Kapp'n]

Space Marine
Orks
ImperialGuard
Eldar

Well you cant have Space Marines without Orks, so there is my first choices. I also love IG and Eldar, my two most used races so I would like them in too. Its very doubtful this will be the starting line up however.

[Schattenkrieger]

I think Tau would make nice Race, because it would be more different than orks and marines. Also the Crisis and Ghost Suits would fit perfectly in the Squad system. In mine opinion.

[Jordan]

Space marines
Orks
Chaos
Tyranids

It doesnt really matter that you have 3 'evil' races in, since its not like Chaos/Orks/Nids are on the same side like SM and IG (are supposed to be)

[Demonhorde]

I must say I like the Lost and the damned models done by FW. Would be nice to see that side fleshed out alittle. That said I would like the original races in DoW2, second choice would be skip eldar for Nids, third would be skip Chaos for Nids and get Chaos in expansion.

[Smit1000]

5 races in the original game (has not been said anywhere that there will only be 4 races)

-Space marines
-Orks
-Eldar
-Chaos undivided
-Tyranids

Expansion pack 1 - Hells Gate - the four powers, plus Imperial guard.

[Bota99]

Chaos
SM
Eldar
Orks
IG

(I am going with the whole why only 4 races idea myself)

[Ethrion]

Space Marines
Chaos
Tyranids
Imperial Guard
Orks (because they have to be seeing as they're already in...)

I throw the guard in there simply because they need to be there if the 'nids are in. Wouldnt be the same without the guard getting obliterated by them!

[nick2512]

Sapce Marines
Chaos
Eldars
Imperial Guards
Orks.

Guards are the underdogs. Perhaps you'll play the whole campaign as Guards instead of Space Marines (That is impossible since the campaign details has already been revealed by Relic.)

[Furyv1xen]

Take the game to its roots And involve only the Traditional factions.

Space Marines
Orks
Imperial Guard
Tyranids
Eldar
Chaos

thats 3 good vs 3 evil.

As a Games Workshop fiend 20 years ago This is what I grew up on and loveled modelling with. Dark Eldar, Tau , Necrons Sisters of battle ? no thanks.

Be Nice to have diversity in the factions as well, like space marines get different Traits depending on the their gene pool , Space wolves get blood claws etc.. And give them different Hero units. Chaos with their Different Greater Daemons. etc...

These are the things that drew me to the models and later to the Pc game.

[Desk]

Spaces Marines (because they are in)
Orks (same)
Eldars (because peoples want to be elvens)
Chaos (Can't see the orks as the main "bad guys")

probably Imperial Guard as a non-playable (or limited playable) guest.

Nothing more.
I don't think we will have more than 4 races because they have to save somes races for expansion pack.
From an economical point of view , why would they sell a warhammer with 6 - 9 races for 50 - 60 € when they can sell 4 for 50 - 60 € and then , 2 for 30 - 40 € ?
Peoples who work for Relic or THQ need to win their life too :)

[Shakrith]

I want to see 3 or 4 factions with sub-factions and a wide selection of units rather than 6 in the original release. All I want to see is Chaos in addition to the two confirmed races, and if eldar or nids are in, so much the better. I think the following would be ideal:

Space Marines
Orks
Chaos
Imperial Guard

[darkpriest99]

Hmm

Orks and Marines are bread and butter of the wh40k world, and they are confirmed...

the other races are dependable: either IG and Tyranids if they will come up with some new story or Eldar and Chaos if they will continue the story from DoW. But no matter what i would like to see those 6 races after the first expansion. Second would bring us back the necs, tau and DE, and maybe some daemon hunters and inquisition as a one faction, to have the total of 10 after 2 expansions.

[Furyv1xen]

For me it would be rather dissappointing if it was only

Space Marines
Orks
Chaos
Eldar

As all four races were the starting races in the original Dawn of war, And while all 4 are truly great, it would end up being Dawn of war with a paint job (ignore the GW pun there)

Obviously the prospect of expansion packs will open up the potential for further races But I hope to god the initial starting races will be Slightly different to the original Computer Game.

when DoW was released there was a Relic poll asking what Race people would prefer for expansion pack, im probably wrong but people Mainly went for Tyranids, now after 2 more expansion packs they still haven't made it into the game.

Please ! Relic/THQ Anyone Gives us the Tyranids !

[darkpriest99]

Well, the point is, that if they would want to continue an elaborate story from DoW, then Eldar and Chaos are simply "must be in" races. But if there will be a completly new scenario of saving the galaxy, then i guess that 'nids would fit in well, and it would actually make sense that eldar would not show up, while IG would get in massive battles to defend their world(s). Imagine also the epic melee battles between the orcs and 'nids then.

Both scenarios are appealing to me, but to be honest I would prefer the continuation of Gabriel Angelos story to the pleasure of using some 'bugsquigazz' to get some fancy 'skullz'. ;)

[Noble]

I don't think that either the Eldar or Chaos are "must-have" races, even if they do decide to continue the same plot line. Either or both of those factions could be relegated to a role similar to the IG in vanilla DoW. They could still take part in the story, just not as playable factions.

[Weavern]

I have to say my choices for DOW2 are;

SM - they were always a given and were confirmed..
Orks - love my green skins! And confirmed w00t!
Nids - There's no reason not to include the 10th missing race from DOW in DOW2's release! I mean we've been told for ever that the old engine cant do them justice so here's a new opportunity!
Elf - As much as I hate the pointy eared ones, they round out the bunch with a different style of play that many players enjoy.

[Ice_JT]

Nids - Perfect chance to include a race with different playstyle, Also I will cry if they dont include them.
SM - Base Race, wouldnt be Warhammer without SM (Lucky me they been confirmed for some time now)
Orks - already confirmed
EldarTauIG - some shooty race to take advantage of the buildings, it would be boring if only SM had reason to take cover.

[JunkyMonkey]

Space Marines (duh)
Orks - They are so satisfying to kill and would be insanely fun to play with if they get some decent looted vehicles, buggies and bikes. Plus with the recent codex and the new table top models released they would be a awesome to behold in the new game engine.
Eldar - I would think they would be ideal to represent the swift, elegant (but arrogant) and warp magic side of the Warhammer universe. Same as the Orks, the sort of recent codex and updated models (especially Dire Avengers, Wraithlord, Striking Scorpions) they would truly be a truly great sight
Tyranids - "Sub-Sector Aurelia - a cluster of worlds on the edge of the Galaxy - where a battle of epic proportions is about to commence"
This just seems to scream tyranids to me for some reason, the presence of a large number of Orks, Space Marines and Eldar would make a mighty appealing meal to the Hive Mind. Plus they have yet to be featured in a Dawn of War game, the time is nigh.

Also I feel as though we may get some cameo appearances from other races such as the Imperial Guard (in the form of basic infantry and an armoured vehicle or two) and Chaos (through cults and maybe traitor units who go crazy because of all the crazy invading aliens)

[nick2512]

It all depends on which Segmentum the system is in.
Segmentum Obscurus - No possible Tyranids' precense
Segmentum Ultima - Highly Likely
Segmentum Pacificus - Highly Unlikely
Segmentum Tempestus - Highly Likely

Here is a map for you blokes.
http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/wh40k_starmap.jpg

Orks aren't the bad guys, they just love to have a good fight and "anuver go". Bad would definably Chaos, Dark Eldar and Necrons but its all on your definition of bad.

[mrkidkill]

1.Chaos.
2.SM
3.IG
4.Orks
5.Nids or Necrons :Loco:

[DrakaLeth]

I would have to say Chaos (please have all four gods separate) , Orks, Eldar, and Nids.
The reason for Chaos separate is so Khorne dedicated armies can't have Daemons of other gods.

[the red soldier]

The ideal factions for me are the 4 originals from the first DOW.

But when it comes to my favorites, the dark eldar, empirial guard, orks, space marines and chaos would be my choices.

[nick2512]

Actually, if the damned warband is Undivided (the Lord is Undivided) than he can have Khornate troops serving under him along with Daemonettes and Horror squads. That is the beauty of going Undivided.

[Kratos]

I still think, that relic has already decided which factions will make it into the dow2, they have developed dow 2 for so long now and the release is already on the horizont (yeah yeah, a year +). When they are that far, it is very much likely, that they have already decided which races to implement and which not!

I bet for Space Marines, Orks, Tyrandis äääänd Eldar (Or Imperial Guard)

[Shakrith]

I have to say, Eldar are probably last on my list of necessary factions, out of the core bunch, that is. They're iconic, but frankly, if it's a choice between them and Chaos, Chaos wins every time. I'd be even more disappointed if the Dark Eldar were a faction in DoW 2 vanilla.

I wouldn't object to Tau being in, however. They're popular with a lot of the younger players, and it might be interesting to delve into their sinister back story, which in my opinion is at the very least as nasty as the Imperium's, even more maybe. The Imperium is oppressive, but the Tau Empire has genetically delineated caste systems and the members of any caste other than the Ethereals literally have free will only when their bosses let them.

[Elukka]

For the purposes of this post i'm going to assume DoW2 will have 4 races like the first game.

Imperial Guard
The most numerous and the most important army of the Imperium. It feels kind of wrong not to have them.

Space Marines
It's 40k. You got to have space marines.

Chaos
Same thing applies here, it's very important to 40k. It doesn't necessarily have to be Chaos marines, i'd prefer more traitor guard, various heretics and daemons. The marines should be the elite. Of course, you could divide them into 2 armies, Chaos Space Marines and Chaos, but that would take much more time and effort.

And Orks are already in. They make sense, being the most numerous creatures in the galaxy and thus very important.

Now, i wouldn't mind Tyranids or Eldar or the other races either, but they aren't first on my list.

Hmm... this list could use some more aliens, though...

[Yiradan]

The four from Dawn of War's launch are the four base, iconic, vital four of the setting, in my opinion. Although I wouldn't mourn the Orks.

I am also confident that the Tyranids will show, given the reasons that were given for excluding them previously.

[nick2512]

Tau can go die in a hole.

SM
Orks
Chaos
Eldar

*anyone who disagrees shall face the wrath of the Inquisition and the Adeptus Astartes for preaching heretical lies* :p

[Captain Sponge]

Although it wouldn't be my preferred lineup, my money would be on the original four: SM, Orks, Eldar and Chaos.

Personally I would prefer to see Chaos dropped for something else; If Chaos is in I would like the other chaos gods to get a bit more representation; the DoW version was pretty much just Khorne, who is the least interesting of all of them.

Tyranids would be my preferred alternative, but they might be a bit too similar to Orks (generally swarmy, heavily melee oriented with a handful of big hitters) so realistically, I doubt they will make it as a playable race in the first release: although I wouldn't be too surprised if they made a cameo appearance at the end of the campaign, like the Necrons in WA.

[Tesla]

personally i also think the original four would still be the best idea

i still think tyranids would be very hard to introduce into the game
if tyranids are in the game, i think at best they will be like the IG in vanilla Dow

[darkpriest99]

yeah and that would be like 'omg 'nids at the end, must... get... the... e-x-p-a-n-s-i-o-n'. Great commercial move it would be *yoda's nod*

[akuma85]

I agree with the 4 basic races (SM, orks, eldar and chaos). Though a fifth race wont hurt (tyranids, nothing else). And by chaos I mean CSM, I'm not a big fan of lost and the damned & the future chaos daemons). And I want a better chaos than dow, a fluffier one and use as much as possible their background to distinct them from SM.

Though having other races would or could be a nice surprise.

[hybris]

For granted, the oldest and most popular races will be the first races to be released, hence;

Space Marine
Chaos Space Marine
Eldar
Orks
Imperial Guards
Tyranids

[Versian]

hybris: Indeed, that would be great. But I doubt we're gonna see 6 armies in one game. Besides, I'm sure Relic would like to produce more than one expansion (which doesn't bother me.) for the rest of the armies.

[Achronos-117]

Space Marines
Orks
Chaos

Limited Appearance I.E., not playable races:
Eldar
Imperial Guard

[Cortlendt]

Would be good. Less races - better game.

[hybris]

Versian: Not all at the same time, but it's unrealistic that any "new" race, like Sisters, Necron, Tau, Dark Eldar, Witch Hunters etc, would make it into the game before all the classic old races are in.

[Versian]

True, but Games Workshop has done an awesome job with the New Races. Necrons. Tau and DE are just as cool as the others. So, I guess it wouldn't be so bad to add them

[Furyv1xen]

OMG

Whoever said Korne are the least interesting you hit the nail on the head !! Give us nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch. I'd Happily be up for some chaos lovin.

but im still unswayed over this "Tyranids would be quite hard to implement Argument ? "

its a race, its the one we all Want, if the modders can come up with decent unit models Im sure Relic/THQ can and as for playstyle, alot of its already in place from previous games, A quick rename and reshuffle and Bang we have the Bio Terrors from hell in the game !

[Kien]

Versian: Not all at the same time, but it's unrealistic that any "new" race, like Sisters, Necron, Tau, Dark Eldar, Witch Hunters etc, would make it into the game before all the classic old races are in.

Are necrons a new race? :moefixed: I hope that they will spend no time on tau, sisters, dh or de. Unless de would have almost all their models redone.

[Croaxleigh]

Furyv1xen: Saying that Tyranids is "the race we all want" is a bit of a stretch... there are a lot of people who would prefer other races to be in the game ahead of Tyranids.

[Hirmetrium]

An IG Cameo is practically a given, even if they are not a main race. All relic will do is made a squad with like 12 members of the same model :P

Tyranids are most likely in, besides..

Chaos. Theres no sort of space marine driven story without tyranids to defend against or chaos to purge.

[Sword_Monkey]

DoW 2 may try to sink further into the canon fluff and actually choose a part of the galaxy to reside in. Marines (Blood Ravens) can go anywhere, Imperial Guard can be pulled from their planets and made mobile, Eldar are supremely mobile. I'll ignore a few other races here for now, as I don't expect to be seeing them. Chaos are based in two main places, the Eye of Terror and The Maelstrom, after that they just pop up sneakily where they are corrupting places. As such there are places you won't see them much. Foremost is the area of space where the Tyranids are being diverted and plowing into a strong Ork held territory. This is a vast area of space, bordering on Imperial controlled space.

As such with the hope of Tyranids and the feature of Marines and Orks so far I'd expect this to be the area of the story, if Relic decide to stay true to the fluff. Alongside this I'd expect the Eldar, as their plans are often to make sure no one race comes out too strong, they'd be very worried about the nids and Orks. Possibly Iyanden. After this I'm rejecting Sisters of Battle because they like witches not xenos, and they can't expect Eldar or Chaos to be in the area. I reject Dark Eldar and Necron because neither have an overwhelming interest in the area. And finally no Chaos because they are concentrated elsewhere. SM, T'nids, Orks, Eldar and IG nonplayable.

[Gale_Force15]

In a perfect world the race layout for DoW2 would be:

Marines
IG
Daemonhunters
Witch Hunters
Alien Hunters
Necrons
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Orks
and Chaos

Then GW would unveil a new expansion featuring some fruity anime race geared toward drawing in the idiot crowd and making a quick buck OH WAIT.

But if I had to pick just four:
Marines
Necrons
Tyranids
Chaos

[Duke 3259]

I think Space Marines would be good, as they are a DoW staple.

Necrons, as a good plot can be interwoven about them.

Tyranids, as a galactic menace is a good opponent.

And Imperial Guard, to provide support for the Space Marines.

But if it were possible, I'd like all the 40k races in the new game.

[LawrenceofArabi]

I'll go out on a limb and say either Orks or Eldar aren't going to make it in, provided tyranids do.

Space Marines: Obvious reasons

Chaos: Filling in where Eldar left off with psychic powers and with considerably more daemons. Chaos should be a much broader, though not necessarily rounded like SM, army. Hopefully the game will have CoH style choices for play style (probably surrounding which god your currently serving)

Tyranids: The new horde army, not much else there

Tau: The counterpart to the predominantly close combat of tyranids, but also filling in the the tech/good intentioned fluff previously occupied by the Eldar.

Mobility would filled in by Tyranids and Chaos primarily, SM and Tau take the firepower slot.

[Brother Necho]

My four races would be:

Space Marines because you can't have Dawn of War without Blood Ravens.

Chaos: An ancient evil to fight......

Necrons: Same reasons as Chaos

Tyranids: As it would be great to have some 'hungry little fellas' to game with.

[Croaxleigh]

Don't forget, folks, that Orks and Space Marines have already been confirmed.

[RagnarBlackmane]

There cannot be 4 races with 3 of them being evil, also it has been stated ork will be in so that only leaves 2 so i wulhave to say either eldar/tau alien shooty races and nids/chaos taht was we have SM who are close combat long range all round team, tau/eldar more ranged, nids close comabt expert or CSM as they are sm nemisis

[Cortlendt]

I'm starting to doubt that nids will be in the game. I'd go with vanilla factions - quite good picks.

[Eisenhorn538]

@Ragnar, this is Warhammer 40K, you can not define a race as being either good or evil. They all have their ups and downs.

Having seen the Orks and Space Marines confirmed I think the best option would be to go for the vanilla factions again or substitute Chaos or Eldar for the nids.

[Fable]

My personal suggestion would be for the first 5 races, plus tyranids, but that's assuming a similar scale of combat to the current game. If the focus is going to be smaller forces with more limeted units I see no reason to not have more races in the initial launch.

[Mr.Q]

Space Marines.
Orks.
Eldar.
Chaos.

I want the Imperial Guard in it, they'd suit the engine perfectly, but if anything I hope Relic just sticks to the vanilla factions. We've waited four years for the Tyranids, so we can wait for them in an expansion, I hope they leave Necrons and Tau out for good as well as the Sisters of Battle. Dark Crusade and Soulstorm were a real turn off for me, and I wouldn't want Dawn of War 2 to end up like those two.

[Gale_Force15]

I want the Imperial Guard in it, they'd suit the engine perfectly, but if anything I hope Relic just sticks to the vanilla factions. We've waited four years for the Tyranids, so we can wait for them in an expansion, I hope they leave Necrons and Tau out for good as well as the Sisters of Battle. Dark Crusade and Soulstorm were a real turn off for me, and I wouldn't want Dawn of War 2 to end up like those two.

Not to advocate the Tau or anything, but the reason those expansion packs sucked so badly was because of the engine, not the races. Honestly the game versions played nothing like those races should have, especially the Necrons who were far more powerful than they should have been (coming from a 'Cron player)

[Cadian_cameo]

Vanila races should be focused on first. Nothing exotic.

We should start with Marines, Chaos, Orks, and Eldar. Maybe if Relic wants to go the extra mile, they could include IG.

[Mr.Q]

Just remember, in the game Company of Heroes one army had three doctrines, which can customize what army is in use.

So even if its only the vanilla races, they're probably going to have things similar to doctrines to help add some diversity and change up the gameplay enough to keep it interesting.

In response to Gale, I don't really care if it was the engine that made them bad, I just don't like the Tau. They don't fit into the 40k fluff as well as the others, they feel tacked on and the race itself doesn't mesh well with the backstory of the universe. I hate the Tau, and any other xenos or chaos spawned race, because I'm a Guard player.

[bman3k]

I think they need to at least have the original 4 races for this to be DoW... but in addition to Space Marines, Chaos, Orks and Eldar I think they should keep Tau and Necrons, that way every faction has a different ideal. No more fluff conflicts with Imperials fighting each other.

[KPMaker]

I am putting my money on the Tyranids not making it into the initial release.

I personally see it going down the same way as the original if they go with 4 races in the initial release:

SM
Orks
Eldar
Chaos

As far as expansions, this is where it gets tricky. If Relic went 9 races on the 1st game, then I’m pretty sure they will go with all 10 races on DoW2. Now, which race(s) will they include in the 1st expansion and will it be one or two races at a time is something to think about; even though the initial game isn’t even released yet, lol, what a bunch of 40K/RTS addicts we are.

If Relic does two races at a time, then I see the following:
IG and Tyranids
Tau & Necron
Dark Eldar & The Inquisition (I’m so hoping they do not do just SoB, I’m so eager to see The Throne of Judgement, and the Arco Flagellants in their.)

Also, I agree with many of you concerning doctrines, which would be a blast to see.

If I’m wrong than I’ll still rejoice; I just want to eventually see all 10 races, fully fleshed out, and well balanced.

[Captain Commie]

KPMaker, I'd have to agree with you on this one. I consider the 4 vanilla races our core races that we can't really live with out. I would like to see the 4 vanilla plus IG, but I don't see that happening so I would be inclined to believe that they would release them second with Tyrainds. Why? because the races make a good foil for each other to fight against, masses of men and machine versus a wall of animalistic alien terror.

[Usaal]

I just got a PC gamer mag and it has listed
SM
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tau
Sisters of Battle
Necrons
IG
Space Orks (not sure why they put space infront of that)
Chaos
Tyranids ( oh goodie!)

So it should be a nice game

[Forge World]

SoB, wonder why they don't just do the Witch Hunters?

[Fire Warrior]

Usaal, what mag is that? I don't know if it's true, but if it is... Sweet Emperor, that's amazing. All of the races plus the 'Nids.

[Usaal]

its the PC Gamer in canada, dated June 2008 Number 175,
comes with a DVD that has Starcraft 2 demo, and 2 gigs of info on Warhamer online and warhammer 40K online :)
also a bunch of stuff on Dawn of war 2, it starts on page 22

[Fire Warrior]

I'd really, really love to believe it, but I don't know. They've been working on it for some time, yes, but did they really manage to get in all the races plus a whole new one? I really hope guys who made the article were telling the truth and not pulling our legs, but if that's true Relic must have worked their butts off!

[NoneSuch]

It's going to be fun.. seeing them trying to balance all of those races at release.

[Kaldaris]

No, the magazine lists the races in the 40k Universe. Not that they will be in DoW2.

[Fire Warrior]

@ Kaldaris

Aww.. Ruin the fun. xD Still, that makes more sense. Alas..! My hopes rise and fall in minutes! :P

[Eisenhorn538]

Putting all races in at the same time would be terrible from a business and gameplay standpoint.

[X_wing_5969]

i would have tyranids, eldar, space marines, chaos and daemonhunters, then Imperial guard and tyranids, then tau, orks and necrons, and finally dark eldar and sisters of battle

[corncobman]

So tyranids in twice?

I'd have Imperial Guard and Tyranids, just when they are about to get overwhelmed, the SM come and save the day right at the end. Then Chaos and Orks and/or Eldar and Dark Eldar. Necrons, Tau and Sisters of Battle / Witchhunters / Daemonhunters. Ideally.

It's not going to happen though because SM are the standard race which everything else is compared to (at least in DoW) and as such is the starting race. Then Orks which just like in Dow, SM vs Orks.

[Dymo]

The Orks and SM are in. The teaser has them fighting the SM. ;)

[OutlawStar]

Space Marines, Chaos, Orks, Eldar, to get the game off the ground. Everyone will buy it, since hey, its Dawn of War TWO!. Then shortly after, released DoW2: Meatgrinder and include Tyranids and the Imperial Guard as the two new races. Everyone will buy it 'cause we've been dying for Nids in the game, and it introduces the theme of more mass-centric races.

[IndigoSpyder]

Will the Sisters make it as well? I kinda like a female faction for a change, plus their hot, if they existed and I was a marine or a guard, I'd gladly be their POW and let them torture me :D

[akuma85]

Sisters could only be added after SM, IG and chaos (they need heretics to justify them).

[Shadow Walker]

SM and Orks are already in.Tyranids will be there also, it is obvious.what about the rest? I think that IG will play its cameo role exactly like in original DoW=PDF [with some missions where you can control them]. they also mentioned about ancient races which for me=Eldar and Necrons. from these 2 I would choose Eldar and Necrons will probably be another cameo appearance like they were in WA.

[dyslexicdreams]

1) Tyranids - quite simply because some of us have been waiting since the beginning and been frankly disapointed with the races that have been produced - Tau & Necrons?
when me & my buddies played the TT im sure they were not around.
Any way - from what ive read in the forums i think a proportion of "us" will disengage from DOW 2 until "the" expansion pack comes out if the Nids are not a race.
I can think of 20 copies of DOW & expansions that have been bought and thats in my social circle, - that works out to 6 less copies of DOW 2 - if there are no Nids.

2 Space marines - with the selection of upgrades/units that is in the Annihlation mod.
They are the benchmark for all the other races.

3 Orks. They are not baddies - simply xenos, they are a different race with different ideals and not driven/created by chaos. They also have good banter.

4 Dont really care. I suppose what ever helps sell the game.

[X_Death_X]

Watch it be.

1. Space Marines
2. Orks
3. Chaos
4. Eldar

[Joe Bob Joe]

1. Space Marines-gotta have them
2. Chaos Marines-traditional anti-heroes
3. Orks-know that they're in
4. Necrons-"ancient race"
5. Eldar-"once ruled the galaxy long long ago"
6. IG-set up like 9k years ago

[Diode]

I'm hoping for:
Space Marines
Orks
Tyranids
Eldar


........although I would really miss my IG.:(

[Deconstructor]

Tau would obviously bring the greatest gameplay variety along with their impressive visual style which is unmatched by other races. And ideal for many many people who only want ranged combat and don't care for melee which is so emphasized in DoW2

If Tau is not included in DoW2 it will be a downgrade from DoW just by that...