Uk Government asks about our sex lives.

[Vakarian]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560771&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

It seems i'm carrying on the recent GD trend of having sex threads but here goes.

the UK has decide to send a servey to more than 500.000 people each year in order to ask them about thier private lives such as sexual preferences (and no not asking if you are gay straight or bi but what you like in the bedroom :eek: )

It has been verified to be voluntery but the people whom check it out are being told to "force" us to particapate.

My question is this:

Why does the UK government have to know this information?
i realise that the Uk is nothing more than a Police state lauded as democrocy but this is too far. How will this benifit the country?

Would you as a citizen (of any country) Answer these questions?

Discuss fellow forumers.

[El Russo]

Since you've bought into this "police/nanny state" idea I'll just go ahead and assume you'll ignore me when I say don't read the Daily Mail! One thing though, it's always a nice challenge working out what's actually going on in anything they report.

As for this survey thing, it does sound a bit strange but people who don't mind answering it will do so. For everyone else, keep in mind us Brits are world leaders in shutting the door in someone's face...

"Hello sir, would you..."
"We don't need a loft conversion, the ability to vacuum our ceilings and/or a discussion about how you found God."
"We're from..."
*Door slams*

[Plasma]

Oh noes a voluntary questionare....what next hot pokers and thumb screws.

I dare say that there are much worse things done by our reps to get het up over.

[Vakarian]

your missing the point plasma.

Regardless if it is voluntary or not what reason has the Government got in getting that information? How will it help the country?

Wasting 3 mil of tax payers money on this is ridiculous because it hasn't got any apparent benefits.

[blueboy93]

He's asking how can the Government benefit from this.

[variousgamesfan]

I'd actually like to see the results from the questionaire, its a good thing lol.

[Tiresias]

I don't get the outrage, one doesn't have to do it.

[Vakarian]

I'd actually like to see the results from the questionaire, its a good thing lol.

Why what help does it do for the government to know that 50% of people have oral sex or 19% of people over 20 drink fosters.

How is that beneficial to anyone?

EDIT: Tir i'm not outraged im annoyed why spend money on something stupid like this when there is SO much more it can be spent on?

[Tiresias]

To help develop a more cogent sex education program perhaps?

[trebmal_ca]

former Prime Minister of Canada Pierre Trudeau, as Justice Minister, famously said, in 1967:

"The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

[Tiresias]

Treb noone is forced to take the questionaire, hell I expect most people wouldn't be bothered too, what's the problem?

[Aron_DeTomado]

In isolation it might not mean much, but if you compare results over say, a twenty year period you might be able to see trends emerge. It might not exactly be vital to governing the country effectively, but statistics are always handy for scientists. As long as the survey is voluntary and anonymous I don't see what the big deal is.

[Vakarian]

a twenty year period you might be able to see trends emerge.

Again how would that help?

by going by my example in my previous post saying that in 2008 50% of people like oral sex and in 2028 scientists say it has increased by 25% how is that helpful from any perspective? scientific or otherwise?

[Plasma]

Better targetting of sex ed, more focus on sensible drinking or altering health spending, maybe seeing if there is a problem with maternity care.

I thought about for oh, 30 seconds.

My first post was a response to your 'oh noes we are a police state not a democracy' statement.

If you think a voluntary questionarre is anything like a police state then you have been far too sheltered from reality.

[Tiresias]

well apart from my post on sex ed that you glossed over seeing general trends help show...well general trends in society, which aid in many things, predicting where the trends will go, see of there are any challenges and problems within legislation about such trends etc.

But basically one wants our lawmakers to be informed about society. Sure you could let them legislate with no knowledge of any trends but I'd much rather they were knowledgable.

[Vakarian]

oh noes we are a police state not a democracy

Well i do believe we live in a plice state is pretty evident imo.

If you think a voluntary questionarre is anything like a police state then you have been far too sheltered from reality.

I don't believe that a "Voluntary questionaire is anything like a police state" why they want those questions answered is my problem.

[Tiresias]

And we've answered them. Re read our posts, help on sex ed and informed legislature.

[Octopus Rex]

As Tiresias said, the government needs to be informed about society in order to appropriately legislate/regulate things. Otherwise they would be legilsating and regulating based solely on their own lives and experiences and not based on the populace as a whole.

Specific examples:

Possible Finding - hardly anyone uses contraception
Action - more education/awareness funding for contraception

Possible Finding - couples generally live together and have children for many years before legal marriage
Action - legislation introduced to benefit parenting but unmarried couples

Possible Finding - lots of people have stillborn babies
Action - more research into pregnancy

It's really not that hard to work out.

[Vakarian]

And we've answered them. Re read our posts, help on sex ed and informed legislature.

Ok i'm not sure how that helps sex ed but fine.

What about the other questions?

You realise this is a 2000 question survey?

ranging from sexual preferences to whether or not your baby died shortly after being born, is that acceptable? How does that help?

Why on earth would the government want to know something so aweful like that?

[bottenbreker]

i think that that is pretty akward. i don't think the UK governement has any bussiness with the UK citizens personal life.

[Octopus Rex]

No, the range includes drinking, smoking, earnings, healthcare - basically everything.

It's not 2000 question about your sex life.

And remember, the press will only mention the most sensational questions, the rest are so mundane as to not be worth mentioning, otherwise they'd mention them.

[Energizer Bunny]

Stay away from the Daily Mail - it will only provide you with a massively skewed version of reality. Governments carry out survey's like this all the time. It's useful for them to be able to dip into as backup when they're making policy decisions on certain issues (i.e. greater sex education is required as X% of young people don't use condoms etc etc).

[Aron_DeTomado]

Its voluntary, of course its fucking acceptible. Are you seriously implying that governments should be banned from surveying the opinions of the people they govern, Vakarian?

[Cyberbob]

but aronn it isn't hlepfull!11111one

[Shoota Fodder]

I don't see anything unacceptable about this. It's a survey that could benifit Sex Education and to help spot trends in society that may influence the behaviour of people within a certain age group.

It could be usefull if it is realised from the survey that more people in the age region of 18-24 drink than those that are aged 42-50. Its things like that that can be grabbed by the education system to help destroy drinking at a young age. And from that, anti-social behaviour could be reduced and Britain could become all in all a happier place.

I don't realy see what the problem with it is.

[Raptor_Shadow]

I think the worrying thing is that, if the Daily Mail is to be believed at all (which I realise is somewhat of an exercise in idiocy.) the information isn't anonymised when it is collected. So at some point, your name and address is attatched to your answers and all you have is their word that it will be made anonymous later.

I find that more worrying than being asked if I like to have sex only on a tuesday.

[Heretic]

...and then someone loses the disc with your precious sex lifes on it. ;) I can't see an issue with it, its not mandatory and its probably used for sex education as said before.

If its put in a database containing all your information, then maybe.

[Nurizeko]

Instead of a voluntary survey why aren't you frothing at the mouth over obliged census'?.


They both have the same function, they gather information so the government can form statistics to help in policy forming.

You've been given answers several times over now.

[Thalasion]

Bad journalism is bad.

Seriously, look at the wording used in the first two paragraphs of that article. How can the Daily Mail get so butthurt over something that is a) not an actual issue to begin with, and b) actualy helpfull to society as a whole?

[Eldritch]

As has been previously stated, the thing which concerns me the most about this is the lack of anonymity.

According to the article (which, even if of dubious reliability is all we have to go on at the moment) the names and addresses of each participant are attached to the questionnaire and are later separately placed in a 'secure' database.

Having little to no confidence in either our government's ethical integrity or its competence, I can't help but worry that the data will be misused or lost (again). Personally I really don't see why, when the questions are so sensitive in nature, anonymity is not absolute.

Then again, maybe I'm just being paranoid (I certainly hope so).

[Mnementh]

Actually this is just so we can laugh at freaks. Civil servants need some laughs too you know.

[A176]

I would just want to share with the world the huge size of my member.

[Moe]

anging from sexual preferences to whether or not your baby died shortly after being born, is that acceptable? How does that help?

Why on earth would the government want to know something so aweful like that?

Oh I don't know, maybe to identify trends and hopefully factors linked to early child death in order to prevent or at least reduce it? Damn this police state in which the government wants to prevent early child death!

[Troubleshooter]

Aside from that, they can make the data available to universities and research groups to help develop more advanced social models and improve the general climate in the UK.

Turn it around... why wouldn't the government be interested in something as basic to the fundamental workings of society as sex? Just about all human endeavor revolves around procreating... why is that the one thing a government would be uninterested in. :p

[Plasma]

I'd understand if you'd made an issue with the lack of anonyminity (sp?) and the govt (well the civil service really) inability to actually keep a hold of data.

Instead you've gone on a daily mail "nu-lab police state" tangent.

[PacPomarnacki]

Vakarian, I would be far more worried about the issue of Mandatory ID cards the Government has been trying to push on us for years than a voluntary Information gathering survey.

Edit: Never trust the Daily Mail, its sole purpose is to get angry at perceived injustices.

[Moe]

You guys don't have mandatory ID cards? We're talking about these little passport-type things that are a valid ID everywhere in your country and would allow you to travel around inside the EU, right?

[Octopus Rex]

No, we don't. The thing is Moe, they keep pushing on them for all the wrong reasons. "It'll stop terrorism!" etc which it won't.

There are benefits, but the fact that they never mention them has got people's heckles up.

BTW - didn't realise you guys had them.

[Heretic]

Moe: No, we have passports. These idea cards will contain our DNA, background information and such. You have to carry them everywhere, if your caught without one...you get fined.

You also have to pay for these, and you have to have them. I still wonder what the use for these, if you want prove of I.D you simply give them your passport.

[Octopus Rex]

What if you don't have one? i.e. you've never left the country and don't plan to.

[Heretic]

It doesn't matter if you never plan on leaving the country, you must have one.
I'm as confused as you on this.

[Plasma]

Combine that with the govt's piss poor record with IT projects in financial terms AND their shit security for said projects. The habit of selling on data to private entities or just losing data is just icing on the cake.

If people want to volunteer for an id card fine, though you do have a passport which is internationally recognised, is voluntary, costs 20-40 quid and afaik has a pretty decent security record. Still haven't grasped how it will stop terrorism 'specially since most of ours is done by citizens.

[Torbert]

It's a government grasping at straws to try to find a way to stop stuff but not actually addressing the real reasons why terrorism happens. Here in the US they want to have biometric cards and all, I dunno how that will work or happen, here when people mention it they just say "It'll keep the terrorists and the illegals away", but I don't buy that. I am sure there are pro's to having them but as someone said (to lazy to look for the name:)) no one is giving them.

[Plasma]

I'd love to know it would stop mexican illegals entering the US unless they build a wall out of ID cards :)

The UK on the other hand shouldn't really have a problem with Illegal immigration given that we are an island nation, securing the borders cant be that hard, the primary ports are already tighter than a nuns twat and we should be able to run a coastal navy ffs :(

[El Russo]

Well once the EU expands into the entire planet there'll be no such thing as illegal immigration anyway.

[Mnementh]

The UK and American governments are currently abusing the "OMG Terrorists will get us if you dont allow xxx" mindset of the general public. ID cards wont stop terrorism, nor will greater surveillance of the general public. Hell, doing this and whipping people into a panic is showing the terrorists what they are doing is working.

We didn't have any shit like this during the long years of IRA fun, but current politics seems to have changed to make it acceptable to abuse whatever fears people have for political gain or power.

[SubakuGaara]

I don't really care. its not different from a cosmo survey imo as long as they don't go about publishing names and so on.

at least they are being open handed about it and asking themselves as opposed to going through some third party intermediary whilst hiding in the shadows.

[Moe]

No, we don't. The thing is Moe, they keep pushing on them for all the wrong reasons. "It'll stop terrorism!" etc which it won't.

There are benefits, but the fact that they never mention them has got people's heckles up.

BTW - didn't realise you guys had them.

Well we have these ID cards which basically look like that laminated page in your password. There's a picture, some basic data such as height, eye color, birthdate and whatnot, along with your current address. We can use them to travel inside the EU and they are used to verify people's age when buying alcohol or verifying their ID when renting cars and whatnot. I've never heard anyone complain about them, and we've had them forever. They don't contain DNA info AFAIK, although the new ones come with fingerprint info IIRC.

[El Russo]

How far removed are they from passports and are they mandatory (to have/carry on your person) moe?

[Moe]

You are required to carry valid ID. That can be either a passport (which not everyone has because not everyone wants to travel outside of the EU) or said ID card. I think I answered the first part of your question already, they contain the same info as the biography page on a passport, plus your current address.

[Plasma]

Wow, that seems to be a fundementally different individual/state relationship than we have here, partly why so many people are against the idea.

The state needs to justify its presence and existence to us not the other way around though most politicos would love to change that.

[El Russo]

I think I answered the first part of your question already, they contain the same info as the biography page on a passport, plus your current address.
That's the issue for me, ID cards seem to largely overlap with the function of a passport. It makes them seem majorly superfluous.

In terms of political philosophy I find it incredibly crass (especially within the boundaries of one's own country) that one should be required to carry something that is meant to act as a guarantor of your identity. I myself am my own identity, there is no need for information to validate that - my physical presence is an overriding proof of personal circumstance.

The arguments over terrorism have generally been refuted elsewhere and I don't see how (I am talking with specific reference to the UK here) an extra system/node of personal information would ease one's relationship with government vis-a-vis National Insurance, HMRC, etc..

In the scenario where this goes through in the UK I'll have to decide between deliberate disobedience and emigration.

[Moe]

That's the issue for me, ID cards seem to largely overlap with the function of a passport. It makes them seem majorly superfluous.

No, because:
-not everyone needs a passport
-a passport has multiple pages to allow for visa, and therefore won't fit inside a wallet
-a passport serves a different function

I don't know what this has to do with terrorism: we've had these things since well before terrorism became an issue and they've worked fine. Not everyone can or wants to get a driver's license, and these government-issued ID cards provide a standardized way to ID yourself and to verify your age.

[PacPomarnacki]

In the scenario where this goes through in the UK I'll have to decide between deliberate disobedience and emigration.
I think pretty much the entire population of my University (and im sure many others), or at least 99.9% of the people I have spoken to on the subject are going for the former :)

Another main "selling point" of these ID cards is that they will reduce ID Theft (A big Hoo ha in the UK at the moment as several data disks containing personal Info on hundreds of thousands of people have gone missing over the past several months) although again im not sure how exactly they are meant to do that, if your wallets stolen your a bit buggered.

My main gripe about these cards is the way they are being forced onto us (if the legislation goes through). It does sting of a reationary move by a government trying to calm fears over terrorism.

[Moe]

myself am my own identity, there is no need for information to validate that - my physical presence is an overriding proof of personal circumstance.

Actually there really is a need to validate that. Otherwise I could walk into a cell phone store or a bank and open an account in your name. Or I could go and vote in your name. Your physical presence also is not proof of your age, which is important especially in your teens and early twenties since most countries have minimum age requirements for various activities from purchasing alcohol to entering a club.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

"Keep government out of the bedroom" is an attitude that government should keep interference in personal relationships - like dictating what's acceptable and what's not - to a minimum.

It's really not relevant to a survey about sexual habits. :)

[Vakarian]

You must all be voyeurs imo, if your happy to tell everyone what you do then thats fine.

In response to aron: No but the question "have you had a child that has died within x amount of time of being born" is imo very insensitive seeing as how i have had to go though that personally.

At the end of the day its voluntary so if you want to do it the cool if not then cool also.

I presume thats what the majority here want me to say anyway right:)

[Cyberbob]

You must all be voyeurs imo

...

...

I'm facepalming so hard right now my hand is about to graft itself to my skull.

[Vakarian]

...

...

I'm facepalming so hard right now my hand is about to graft itself to my skull.

Does it hurt? You know not contributing to a thread.

All i see you do cyberbob is come out with one liners and generally put people down.

[Cyberbob]

Can I ask how twisting the contention that a voluntary census is fine into voyeurism is contributing to the thread?

[Kirjava]

He's face-palming because you've come to the conclusion that the majority of people here saying, "It's voluntary, it can be useful, why not do this survey?" apparently means that they're all voyeurs who love to watch other people go at it.

And if you read the Daily Mail you're either terribly naieve or hopelessly foolish.

[Moe]

Not only that, but the logical conclusion would have been that we're all exhibitionists, not voyeurs. Your trolling is weak.

[Starblade]

You must all be voyeurs imo, if your happy to tell everyone what you do then thats fine.

You probably should have looked up the definition of "voyeur" before posting that.