2009 Guard rumours

[Bloodhowl]

I thought I read about this in white dwarf along time ago, must have been mistaken. But recently I heard from a friend that GW might be releasing them in plastic. Upon asking when I got a very vague reply of with the 5th edition codex.

According to him they are coming with grave shoots and stuff so it is now possible to create an Elysian army with out paying forge world prices.
Next question was, how did you find out and typically from a friend, and how did said friend find out from another friend and so on. So basically I am asking is this going to happen? Is there even a new Guard codex?

[Sheep]

The new Imperial Guard Codex is rumoured to come out some time next year around April.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/3991.roterschnee/40k5thEdReleaseEvent#5222147639394087138

Those are the only images released so far about the plastic Storm Troopers but its been confirmed that they'll be getting new models. It is unlikely they will be coming with grav shoots.

[Bloodhowl]

cool thanks for the reply.

[Sansa]

I am so starting this army when they come out. Much love to the IG. I am hooked on their fluff books.

[BillyBob]

Yeah, that's been flying around for a while.
I just hope there's more than just some dude standing at attention.

[spacewolflord]

I just hope I can still have fun with my Vet./ Grenader army when the new codex comes out. But I do have high hope for this book since the SM one was filled with tons of cool stuff that was also mostly balanced with the best stuff being really expensive.

[Artzilla]

pshaw I hope they drastically lower points for imperial guard...i feel horrendously outmatch every time i plays against other armies.

[Escapehatch]

@Artzilla
That's not really relevant to the topic.

As long as the ST's keep their Kasrkin appearance I'll be thrilled to have plastic models. Depending on the options for hardened vets in the next codex, these may serve double duty for carapace wearing vets and ST's alike :jig:

[nareik123]

Admitedly, I hope they come plastic. Being metal models lowered their already low "I want them" options. Veterans were better TT wise and were plastic!

[Sheep]

Recently i've been getting mixed information, suddenly there is some suggestion that there are no new storm troopers intended for the first release and that well be getting only 4 new plastic box sets. Overall i wouldn't hold my breath guys.

I really don't know how to react to this, on one hand i guess i'm over joyed my 50 metal storm troopers might be seeing some extra use by the time i get them completed, on the other hand i would've really enjoyed some new plastics.

[SilverTabby]

suggestion that there are no new storm troopers intended for the first release The current trend in releases over the last couple of years has been to do an initial release with the book, then a bunch of stuff a few months later (like the Ork stuff coming up in January). The important words in your comment are 'first release', I feel. If something doesn't come out with the Codex, it doesn't mean it's never being released.

[Nurizeko]

Ah I only recently like a month ago bought the Imperial guard codex and their releasing a new one?.

This is why I hardly bother with the hobby, at least game patches are free. :rolleyes:



But plastic storm troopers would be nice, I actually don't like metal models at all apart from characters and boss types.

If I was GW I would start releasing troops, elite or not, all in plastic, metal is a hassle.

[Xenith]

The IG codex is still around a year away, probably. Divide the cost of the codex by the number of hours youll spend reading it, making army lists and playing the game. Its not a bad investment.

[Dexter099]

Considering the fact that it's been about 6 years since they released the last IG codex, I think it's about time that they came out with a new one.

It's supposed to come to come out April/May.

By the way, Nurizeko, you might not get much out of the IG list right now anyways, considering their infantry is pretty badly underpowered for their cost. their tanks are still fine, though, they've actually gotten better thanks to the new scatter rules.

[warforger]

Dex that's not that bad, since for one Guard got two codex updates during 3rd ed, while DE havn't got a update for more then a decade.

[Brother Wolf]

Ah I only recently like a month ago bought the Imperial guard codex and their releasing a new one?.

This is why I hardly bother with the hobby, at least game patches are free. Considering the copyright date is 2003, it shouldn't come as a surprise. If a video game was copyright 2003, you would've had 2-3 expansions by now or a whole new version of the game, (hmmmm, DoW fall 2004, 3 expansions, DoW2 spring 2009).

Let's try to keep this on topic, eh?

[Norsehawk]

I have to say, I do love that image posted in the second picture, but I have my doubts that they will be able to translate that into plastic. To me, it looks more like a metal cast figure or resin cast than something that can be replicated in plastic.

The greenstuff one is definitely not castable in plastic, the gun is attached to the torso. The second one in resin looks doable in plastic so I guess there is a chance for that one.

[spacewolflord]

I believe they make a few test models to try out a certain look. Once they get down a look they like then they figure out how to translate that look in to a models, weather it is made out of metal or plastic.

[Sethero]

BoLS has again indicated that plastic stormies are on the way, along with plastic command squads for Cadians and Catachans, a fleet officer (giving access to orbital bombardments) and a commissar lord (new HQ choice)... and a plastic valkyrie, which is skimmer-only outside of apoc games. Infantry boxes will be recut to include 8 guardsmen and a heavy weapon team. The codex is slated for a May release.

[Brother Wolf]

Beat me to it Seth.

As always, we'll see it when we see it, but I have to say that these are very flavorful rumours and make my already massive collection of IG beg for some new love come May.

It's a gimme, there will be 4-6 Valks on order, bank on it at those prices.

[spacewolflord]

Why will they not let Catachans just die? Who buys them really? I want Valhallains/ generic Trench coat troopers by the God Emperor. I will admit the Rambo look is neat for an army but still Trench Coats are Cooler.

[Sethero]

I beat BA to the punch on something? It's a first for me!

Well, they have the sculpts and molds for the catachan already, so it makes sense for them to keep them available for the time being. I know there are a few adherents to the catachan way... I think BA might be keeping the line alive himself. Heh. I would guess we'll see a third guard option come up sometime, maybe a second wave release further on down the line. Or at least that's my hope.

I want to get a couple of valks when they come out. Those things are just too cool, and an IG skimmer is just what the doctor ordered to improve their mobility.

[Brother Wolf]

Why will they not let Catachans just die? Who buys them really? I think BA might be keeping the line alive himself. Damn skippy! Take your carapace armed Cadians and shove them up your... ok, ok, ok, calm down. Personally, I love the Catachan models and find them much more entertaining than Cadians. Any time I pick something up which had Cadian models in it, those poor bastards get relegated to the, "maybe someday I'll build a renegades force", pile. I have my Catachans, who were my first IG love, (the metals are still so f-ing cool), and of course my gobs of Steel Legion, top that off with about 80+ 2nd series Storemtroopers, (ie: not beret wearing gits and not Kasrkin either). I have great faith that we'll get teh great coat plastics and on that day my Valhallan-type company will be born.

Ugh, can't I ever just STOP???!

DOUBLE POSTI think it's something about us Guard players...Yeah, we're broken. What's worse, if you start as a Guard player and then become a Marine player and then keep playing Guard & Marines, you can't help but keep piling them on.

Goddess save me from the day I start Orks, (oops, too late. 2 AoBR sets already on the work bench next to my 8 year old Ghazkull who is still patiently waiting)

[Sethero]

I think it's something about us Guard players... I've been mulling over starting another guard army in the near future. It's bad I tells ya! I mean sure, I only have 3K points in Guard right now, but now I'm thinking, well why wouldn't I have 2-3 more guard apoc armies around, you know, just in case?

Addictions to little plastic army men... what a good time!

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

They'd better not cancel Catachans...where the hell else am I going to get my Sentinel chainblades for conversions? :p

[AidanPrydeJF]

BoLS has again indicated that plastic stormies are on the way, along with plastic command squads for Cadians and Catachans, a fleet officer (giving access to orbital bombardments) and a commissar lord (new HQ choice)... and a plastic valkyrie, which is skimmer-only outside of apoc games. Infantry boxes will be recut to include 8 guardsmen and a heavy weapon team. The codex is slated for a May release.

Yes, very nice... Finally a plastic valk...

I wonder if the guardsmen are going to be molded differently, so that you ave other poses besides gun across chest. I'd rather buy a separate Hvy Weps team though. I like keeping squads to 10. Unless they allow 2 meltas/plasmas....

And I strongly agree with Nurizeko, metal is a big pain.

[Sheep]

GW have demonstrated they're capable of making interesting kits. What i'd personally like to see from the re-cuts is an option to have the shoulder guards on or off much like the Baneblade crew. I'd be really impressed if they had body armor seperate from the body so that you can add or not have it.

[Bob_Marley]

Hmm...

A plastic Valkyrie you say? New catachan HQ and fleet liason officers?

The thought of being able to do an Air Cav army without it being horrendusly expensive or full of conversions (which I'm no good at) might be enough to get me playing again. And finally let go of my much loved SAS & Gurkhas in Borneo styled deathworld veterans force (as no doubt Codex: Catachans will be rendered totally unuseble by the new IG codex if the other recent releases are anything to go by. I'll miss the look of surprise on my opponents face when 3 BS4 meltas appear out of nowhere at point blank range next to his most valuable tank. Catachan Devil Ambush for the win.).

Just a thought, but wouldn't a (presumeubly) fast skimmer with troop carrying capacity and a not insubstantial armament mean the IG are getting a bit close to eldar terretory? Its almost level with a falcon in terms of armament and armour (as I recall it boasts either a las cannon or multi laser, 2 HBs and 2 HK missiles along with armour similar to a Chimera)

[Imperial Blade]

Hmm... seems like I'll have to hold off on buying a command squad until May. Hopefully, the new IG codex will make up for removing doctrines. :err:

On the bright side though, I'd absolutely love to see some new plastic kits. If rumors can be believed, then it seems the venerable and much loved (by me at least) griffin is going to be released in plastic.

The Commissar Lords and Fleet Liaison sounds interesting I have to admit. I'm already planning on using the Commissar with power fist model as my commander so I'm safe on that regard.

[Brother Wolf]

Hi guys, here is what we've heard regarding the first week of IG releases in May. I'm certain there will be much more coming later in the month.


IG Codex $25
IG Primaris Psyker $15
IG Ratling Snipers $20
IG Sentinel $25
IG Cadian Command Squad $25
IG Catachan Command Squad $25
IG Valkyrie $50
IG Cadian Shock Troops $22
IG Catachan Jungle Fighters $22

~Standard caveats apply, and no guarantees on these prices. Still though, those $22 Cadian/Catachan prices would seem to mesh with the earlier rumors of those kits being repackaged into 10 man squads with a heavy weapon squad included. Do you guys see that Valkyrie on the list? Pretty cool! I expect Jwolf is already weeping tears of joy and practising his "Flight of the Valkyries" humming.Mmmm, $50 Valkyries!!! Plastic Cat & Cadian command squads, too bad I don't really need them anymore.

[Tave]

no mention of the great coats though :(

[Rusty Nail]

Must... not.. start... IG...

[Sethero]

I would guess the plastic stormies aren't coming in May, but will be a second wave release later in the year. I've already got a seriously large shopping list, assuming this schedule is correct, so I'm okay without them for a little while.

I need a mop over here... thoughts of plastic valks are making me drool uncontrollably.

[spacewolflord]

If you read the header of the post that the list is from it states that its for the 'FIRST WEEK'. That means theres is a week two and possibly a third week of release still. Then 6 months later Wave Two.

[Civik]

Damn, that's good news. I'll have enough time to complete my Word Bearers and then it's back to guard... Chaos guard, but guard nonetheless. :)

[redcoated]

DARN IT!!!!!! just when I was all set on tyranids as my new army, I get news of all this IG goodness.....

[KillerHappyFace]

This release has me really stoked. With Apoc, I was able to say "meh, I'll only use stuff like that in massive battles, which I hate, so why bother?" But particularly the plastic Valks have convinced me to restart.

I started actually playing my collection when I started Guard. Then a while ago I decided that Marines would be a bunch of fun and hung up my IG for 'a bit'. Now I have 2 2000 point Marine armies, a small Ork Army, a Tau combat patrol, and my several year old 1200 point IG army which hasn't been getting much love.

None at all actually-- I've only really been letting it sit on the shelf and occasionally get used as parts for Necromunda gangers. That is definitely going to change now that all of these lovely sets are coming out. I can't wait for all of the modeling opportunities they will bring.

[Brother Wolf]

Since I closed the Colonel's thread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=211514), I thought I'd reiterate his superheavy info here to continue stimulating discussion.New tanks from GW courtesy of Warseer. Follow the link and view post 273.
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174265&page=14

Once again, an awesome kit from GW.Let's try to keep all the new IG discussion here for now please.

[LordAba]

Is the shadowblade (Not sure if I have the name right... the titan killer with the volcano cannon) in the Apoc: Reloaded book or just in the IA books?

[spacewolflord]

I find it interesting that all the new models that are being let out are big hunks of sweet metal death. Yes when people think IG they think massive Armour units. But why don't they give us a little on the other models, like Rough Riders and storm troopers?
Valkyries do look good so I am going to pick up one maybe two and use them for my Witch Hunter army at least. The book rules will make or brake the IG army for me. If I can still have my elite infantry units be a soild choice with out Armour then cool. If Armour is NEEDED to make an compative army then I must just regulate all my IG to Witch Hunter Storm Troopers.

[Sethero]

Thought I'd dust off this old thread with rumors of GW release schedules (from our friends at BoLS):

2009 Warhammer 40k & Fantasy
-April: Imperial Guard (we hear May)
-May: Fantasy Empire 2nd Wave (Empire Steam Tank, Greatswords, "Military Altar") (we hear June, and have no indication of a "Military Altar")
-July: Planetstrike (looks like its coming at LONG last)
-September: Space Hulk (with all new modern plastic termys, genestealers...the whole 9 yards) (we have no confirmation on this)
-October: Skaven (we hear August)
-November: An unnamed marine chapter (we hear Space Wolves)

2010 Warhammer 40k & Fantasy
Fantasy Candidates: Khemri...
40k Candidates: Tyranids, Blood Angels (possibly following on the coat-tails of Space Hulk), Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar are reported to be almost finished, but pushed off due to their low interest level.

Remember, these are rumors only, and are quoted verbatim from BoLS. Good to see Planetstrike is still in the works. It does sound like DE will continue getting the shaft, at least for the time being.

[Telliphas]

-September: Space Hulk (with all new modern plastic termys, genestealers...the whole 9 yards) (we have no confirmation on this)

Ohhhhh Im going to keep my eye on that one.

[Xenith]

Oh man, I love space Hulk!

[LordAba]

The rumors are actually from some random site translated from Spanish, so I would take a huge grain of salt.

[Bopoink]

Personally i hope plastic ogryns are coming too, they cost way too much

[Schmapdi]

Sorry - newbie here, but I have a few somewhat-related questions:

1) What makes GW decide to do a model in metal vs. plastic? Most of the metal ones don't seem all that different from plastic ones. And it seems like they are releasing an ever higher % of the line as plastic.

2) How do they go about deciding what army/armies get updated? How many years is there between revisions? (For example - They just did Orks, when was the last Ork update?)

3) Do they just get around to the smaller/less popular/piece meal (like Witch Hunters) armies whenever? Why don't they just update all armies a piece at a time? That way some people don't have to wait half a decade to get anything new?

Thanks

[Brother Wolf]

This has been discussed a great deal and has answers from pure conjecture to cold hard fact. A search should put plenty of info in front of you.

Simply put, it's more expensive to make plastics initially than pewter, but plastic molds have greater longevity than pewter. Additionally, over the years GW has invested more and more into their facilities, allowing unheard of volumes of options on today's plastic sprues which would've been inconceivable just a few years ago. Plastics tend to be for those models which are required in bulk, while metals are for models which will be required in less demand per army, (ie: an elite squad or commander will be in significantly less quantity per army than it's troop models.

It took Orks 10 years and 3 versions of the game to get updated. Dark Eldar are still waiting. GW's rationale for updated depends on far too many factors to discuss easily here.

[Col Von Barring]

I have just been advised not to buy a resin Stormblade from Forgeworld just yet as there will be another lot of releases for Apocalypse after the Shadowsword.

This did NOT come from a GW source but from another gaming group who reckon to be in the know (!?). Pinch of salt needed, but we can dream.

It will be interesting to see how this develops. Jervis Johnson, in his Standard Bearer column in White Dwarf states that GW are going away from releasing stuff just with a new Codex.

I've seen the new Shadowsword kit in my local GW and I am impressed by the way they have used the Volcano cannon's 3 pieces to make 3 different weapons. I've also seen the stats for the new super heavies and they will all play very differently to each other. Damn, I'll have to buy one of each!!

[spacewolflord]

You don't have to buy one for each variant, just have fun with magnets.

[Col Von Barring]

- Command Squad Boxes will include all the special weapons in plastic (1 of each), 3 different officer heads, several different close combat weapons (Swords, Fists etc), various embellishments, 2 suits of officer armor, one more practical one more dressy, and 4 Cadians with a few new/special heads.
- The Stormtrooper greens with the shotguns do not imply that IG Stormtroopers will be getting shotguns, but are instead for WH Arbites-style Stormtroopers.
- Stormtroopers will not be released in the first wave, but instead may be released with an Inquisitor supplement oriented around Planetfall.
- The new Ratlings are nice, the new psykers, not so much.
- Commissars still exist in a capacity different to what they do now. They are allowed to attach to certain squads. However once a Commissar Lord is taken they have more freedom and there can be more of them. They are also cheaper(almost half of what they are now).
- IG Sniper Squads, in addition to getting infiltrate, stealth, rangefinders, and sniper rifles will also get camo cloaks.
- Vet Squads probably won’t be upgrades for platoons.
- While sentinels, chimeras, and hellhounds will be able to attach to platoons as support vehicles, demolishers will not.
- Support Squads are different now and are platoon attachments not command squad attachments.
- Basic squad loadout will be 10 Lasguns or 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol for 40 points.
- Platoon Drill will require a vox network.
- Some squads will have access to heavy flamers.
- New Catachan plastics will have scaled down arms.
- No greatcoat plastics.
- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.
- Ogryns have no new models. At least not yet. The newish ones are current.
- Some, but not all, tanks will be able to fire sponson weapons as Defensive weapons.
- Cadian Rough Riders will be in the 1.5 wave.
- Leman Russ boxes will include parts to make LRBT, Demolisher, Vanquisher, and Exterminator.
- Chimera boxes will have parts for 3 other variants (including Hellhound). The Chimera will have 6 variants (though some of these sound like they’re just different Chimera weapon options).
- Basilisk boxes may come with parts for Medusas and Griffons.
- While you’ll be able to field more armor, you won’t be able to field an armored company as part of the regular codex.
- And while you’ll be able to field more tanks, the true strength will be the numbers of guardsmen you can field. 110 Points for 25 Guardsmen with nothing but flashlights.
- The Valkyrie will be different from the FW version, but not any huge difference.
- A Spearhead Sentinel is one that is equipped with heavier weapons and meant to be the spearhead of an attacking force. It lacks Scout moves or the like but has slightly better front armor and several variant weapons.

[Brother Wolf]

Mmmmm, 450pts for my typical core 3 platoon force without command. 105 models for 450, how sweet is that?!?!?

Of course, now that I have already built my AC w/ converted exterminator, converted Steel Legion Rough Riders and hundreds of buff armed catachans, what's left for me without plastic greatcoats? :(

[Sethero]

Yeah, but you really have to consider that almost everything in the guard line is apparently getting a retouch (or has in the last 2 years), plus new models!

Ogryn and Commissars got new models recently.
All vehicles are rumored to get updates (Russ, Chimera, Bassy, Sentinel)
3 new vehicle boxes (baneblade, super variants, valk)
New command squad for the cadians
Reworked catachans
New ratlings and psykers
New Rough Riders and stormies later in the year
New characters

Look at it that way, GW has or will touch/revamp everything on offer for the guard one way or another. Not bad for a codex release...

[Brother Wolf]

No, not bad at all Seth. It's a great time to be starting up an IG force. It's not GW's fault that I've been collecting IG like a lunatic for the last decade, (Steel Legion, Catachans, Stormtroopers/Grenadiers, Armored Company, etc). :wtf:

[Sethero]

I know, I pine for the greatcoats as well. GW shall lament the day they kept them from us! Muahahha!!!

Well, not really. I'm still going to spend piles of cash on all these wonderful new toys. Maybe not as much as I would if greatcoats were on the menu... I know a lot of people will be disappointed without them, but I think GW is making a good call economically speaking.

[AidanPrydeJF]

no wonder GW is so stingy about leaking info, Who truely is going to buy IG kits now? Why not wait till May?

Anyway, I realy hope that they include meltas or plasmas in the new guardsmen kits. It can get quite expensive buying them by the 2's for $15.

[EmilCrane]

- Leman Russ boxes will include parts to make LRBT, Demolisher, Vanquisher, and Exterminator.

If thats true then thank the emperor, I love the vanquisher and I like using the tanks main guns for AT rather than the hull lascannon, I can finally finish my second world war british army with some 40k fireflies

[Targaryen]

First off, linky (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/)

Secondly, what the fuck?
Some of this stuff is just insane.
Discuss.

[Mantaray]

well, nice to see my bog standard russ is now side armour 13 giving it yet another advantage over the preadator/rhino chassis.
moving 6 inches and firing all guns is what i am desperate for. actualy mak it worth while putting a lascannon on the front, as it no longer matters about it being a 'defensive weapon'

as for the rather badly named and punned hellhound varients (Devildog and Banewolf, Imagination somewhat lacking??) it just sounds like they grabbed a thesaurus and viola, new varients >.<

im rather disturbed to see a fusion cannon. thats tau technology or so i am led to believe...

on another note im glad my vanquisher now apears in the codex rather then just a WD issue or forgeword book... means i can use it at my local club the way its meant to be used!

[Sheep]

I'm really looking forward to the new choices. Though i'm a little sad that they concentrated on tank varients rather then infantry.

Penal Battalion sounds funny. I'm not a fan but who knows what projects i might run into in the future so i'll hold out on this one to see whether its true or not.

I like the drop in points for the chimera.

The new hellhound varients sound interesting as well, but i've never really used the old hellhound either way, so i think i'll pass. Still a bit ambivilant about them and their truth but they say variety is the spice of life...

Now the tanks. I don't get the rule where you move 6 and fire all weapons or fire no weapons at all and move 6 + 1d6. Unless they change the rules for the leman russ so that its maximum speed is 6" then this is pointless as they can already move 12". The extra side armor is interesting as well but my tanks have been dieing to assaults in 5th ED anyway so i find its introduction only a little useful.

With all of these upgrades i also feel that marines have been left in the dust a little. Why does the exterminator autocannon have 4 shots? Well i won't complain to much as i always said it needed a little more to be more useful, just seems out of place.

Always good to hear about the Vanquisher, now i can actually use mine if this is true as well.

Anyway moving on, oh whats this, WHOA. 20 shots. Wow.

Wow.

Understandably it'll still do a crummy job in the hands of BS 3 guardsmen but the psychological affect of 20 shots should muster some funny moments indeed! I don't get the executioner change either. Seems meager. I'll be reserving my judgment on the Nova Cannon if it turns out to be true i might even test it.

Now the artillery. And i must say, i'm loving it so far. I've always been a huge artillery fan either way but the possible introduction of the medusa, griffin, something i've never heard of and a basilisk sounds great. I love it and will look forward to utilising full batteries of medusas in apocalypse! To be honest though, i'm more excited at the prospect of models by GW for these buggers.

Dunno about the deathstrike. Sounds to far of for me. If true i'll probably pass on them anyway. Ogryns and Valkyrie sound good so far. Now its down to the points cost.

[Xenith]

Well the 6"+1d6 may be to offset their shooty abilities, making them somewhat lumbering. Kinda like mega armour for tanks.

Nova cannon: Large blast, ignores cover saves? brutal.

Punisher sounds horrible, those 20 shots will rip through light tanks etc. Seems pretty cool though. I may have to get one, I love gatling things.

Nice to see stuff with ridiculous ranges (manticore, deathstrike) to fit in with apoc games - thats what the guard seem to be aiming at now.

Deathstrike seems a lot of fun, kind of a doomsday weapon, I can see a lot of scenarios based around one or two of these.

[Imperial Blade]

My dream for the Guard has now been fulfilled. All hail GW :jig: !

[BrianGeneral]

I'll just quote my reply at BoLS to here:

"Heavy 20 is simply BS. In 40K there're just rare weapons with shots >6, and 10+ are simply for Apocalypse (Supa-Gatler, Vulcan Heavy Bolter, etc). Now in a GUARD company!? Regardless of the power of the shots this is simply BS.

Again, Deathstrike is another BS. Who need a 960" range weapon in a normal 40K game? Even for Apoc it'll be a REALLY large ground for using it. And WTF is the rule of "Ignoring the Weapon Destroyed but just delayed"? If it's a Chimera-borne launcher then its launch pad surely CAN BE DESTROYED.

Orygns. That's just simply another BS. With costing lower and with lesser attacks than 30 Ard Boyz/10 Ard Nobs they'll become the BEST meat shield in 40K. I did a little math in Warseer and the result is just......Orygns SHOULDN'T BE that cheap.

I do have some hope with this new Codex, but now it seems that these rumours are just coming from fans' wishlists. Or are GW staff gone mad after the Marines codex?"

[Smurfx0r]

:rolleyes: why did I not see that coming.

anyways... 20 shots is ok, considering for instance, tau at rapid fire range get about 24 shots, 4's to hit, 3's to wound amirite? Now, consider, that said tank costs something akin to 100+ points (because as we all know, tanks cant hold objectives, as well as being able to easily be shaken, especially w/ FA12). I wouldn't complain much at all.

Ogryns being a meat shield... hmm last i checked, Ogryns have super stupid low LD? just win combat, Orks shouldnt be worried much about that even a little bit.

the rule of not being able to be weapon destroyed? its because that weapon sucks ass. Consider for a moment the SM Orbital bombardment, the Monolith particle whip, other like abilities. Now also consider that if you play it right, this weapon might only be able to fire once or maybe twice a game? Ya... good luck getting THAT rocket off.

The ones that I see being a HUGE problem for most armies are the obvious vanquisher, as well as the new Nova Cannon, and the new Collosus Siege cannon.

This might not be so bad, if you can still only take one tank as a single Heavy, as that makes you choose and mix+match the fit the style of your army.

[Xenith]

Some math that was also done on BoLS, was that at BS3, the 20 shots = 10 hits, 6/7 wounds, 2/3 dead marines. How is that worse than a battlecannon? Even if its better VS hordes, the gattler gets 10 hits, maybe 8 kills - ive lost more than that to a single battlecannon shot. Its not really broken, i mean, my avengers pump out 50% more s4 shots than that, for probably less points than that thing will cost.

Deathstrike is more than likely just for fun. I cant see practical use very often. Its just a doomsday weapon for apoc.

Ogryns - Id heard that they also had FNP, which would be nasty. Still, its about time that this unit wasnt useless.

EDIT:

@smurfxor LOL!

[BrianGeneral]

Infantry still isn't something like a squad of FW Rapid Firing. Almost all weapons can hurt FWs and decrease their unit size as such, but only big guns can hurt a vehicle------not to mention that 20-gatler is 24" from rumours.

By current codex, Orygns are Ld8 IIRC, which is average among 40K armies.
I also did a little math about Orygns' survivability against the hordes (Orks) at Warseer, and they even have Eavy Armour to make up for their low save.
"10 Orygns /w Leader=260pts, each with T5 and 4+ Armour Save, combined for 21 Attacks, 30 Wounds and each have FNP. They're also S5 (or 6 with Ripper Gun).
10 Nobs /w Eavy Armour=250pts, with combined 20 wounds and 40 attacks.
30 Ard Boyz (without Nob)=330pts, with combined 30 attacks and 30 wounds.

Assume the Orks get the charge.
Nobs: About 25 attacks hit, cause 12.5 wounds and 6.25 wounds before FNP, 3.125 after.
Orygns strike back, about 10.5 hits and 7/8.75 (S5/6) wounds, leading to 3.5/4.375 wounds. In either case Nobs lose by about 1.

Boyz: About 20 attacks hit, 6.67 wounds and 3.333 before FNP, 1.667 after.
Orygns strike back, about 10.5 hits and 7/8.75 (S5/6) wounds, leading to 3.5/4.375 kills. Boyz lose by about 2 to 3."
As shown above, even for Orks it'll be a hard time to win a combat against these walking tanks------And it's disregarding teh factor of shooting towards Orks. Thing is, the rumoured point cost is just TOO UNDERPRICED for such a good unit (By just paying about 30pts more than 10 Plague Marines they have TRIPLE wounds than them and have an average Armour Save). So what if they can't capture objectives, their nigh-indestructability will also stand as a strong objective-denial squad.

If the Deathstrike is simply a fun weapon, then just leave it for Apoc. The thing is, such wepaon isn't even fit the fluff for a single Guard company to have these ICBM-like wepaons------Manticores are also an unnecessary stuff for 40K. I can bear with Medusa though.

The problem about the 20-gatler is that mathhammer isn't going to fit all the time------I can have 2 concessive rounds of shooting that my 3 Railguns hits totally nothing. The reverse case is here: you may have a super-effective crowd control weapon. And no, from teh rumour this weapon will be on an LR chassis (which side AV is rumoured to become 13 if no sponsons are taken).

[Brother Wolf]

*donning mod hat*

merging new IG rumours thread with this existing IG rumours thread.

*removing mod hat*

Based on the recent rumours for IG unit cost AND the changes to Chimera pricing, (which we heard a bit for earlier), the base price for my 55 man Steel Legion Armored Company, (2 platoons + Command & 7 Chimeras), is now less that 750pts. That is HUGE, just huge, and will definitely allow me to bring more bodies and bonus kit like I have wanted to all along.

The one thing I don't think is true is Hellhounds being fast tanks. The extra armor over the Chimera and the extra weapon kit should not allow the vehicle to be fast where other chassis variants would not be. The only fast Chimera variant ever has been the Salamander which was open topped to boot. If it is true, I'll be very excited, but I also think it's a little unusual considering the vehicle's history. Then again, seeing as it looks like they rewrote it entirely with two new variants...

[Dragoon]

As an IG player I am excited about it all, but honestly some of the stuff seems too good to be true. I have no idea of the validity of these statements, but I do look forward to the increased variety and improvements they seem to offer.

What does scare me though is thinking about these upgrades with a player like Brother Armand here... think about it a minute, and tremble.

[Xenith]

Maybe the hellhound will just be able to fire as a fast vehicle, a la BA overcharged engines?

I have to say, Im pretty excited by all of this...I love tanks...

[Turbo164]

Maybe it turns the flamethrower backwards to act like a rocket engine? :P

Looks pretty crazy. Some of the earlier rumors were more believable. Wonder if the 20 s5 shots will be allowed triple HB's too... <_<

[Xenith]

Probably not, if it could do that it would make the exterminator pointless! That can already pump out 9HVB shots and 4exterminator AC shots. Maybe the thing will be 'Ordnance (20)' Haha, brutal.

[Escapehatch]

These do sound like very tasty and much needed changes, but we all need to remember that we aren't seeing the full picture here. Lets use Ogryn for the example since there seems to be some mild dislike for the changes to them. Think of how many elite choices there currently are for IG, and imagine if they made modest improvements to all of them. Maybe Ogryn won't be so desirable after we find out what becomes of Vets, STs, Techpriests, and Ratlings. Personally I'd be sporting the Techpriests if they were improved to support that wicked new armor :p

p.s. Gosh it's fun to see concern about IG being overpowered. It feels all warm and fuzzy.

[Imrix]

Now, the only problem I see with these possibilities is that the idea of a Punisher pumping out more bullets than a Vulcan Megabolter is... Odd.

[FifteenHours]

Huzzah to The Year of the Guard! I am stoked to hear all these new variants and toys to play with. Yeah...I'm aware that it's merely rumor, and that it's a little OP from first sight...but I'm still stoked out of my mind! Hope to see some more validation soon....perhaps pics of the new variants? :)

[Brother Wolf]

What does scare me though is thinking about these upgrades with a player like Brother Armand here... think about it a minute, and tremble.Muhahahahahaha!!!

110 Guardsmen ~500pts
30 Sisters ~500pts
3 Main Battle Tanks ~500pts

Look on your opponent's face when he realizes you can still add ~500pts worth of weapons & wargear to the 140 warriors on the table?

Priceless.

[KillerHappyFace]

*takes a shovelfull of salt with the new rumors*

Is no one else bothered by the fact that a Nova Cannon already exists? It is the Big Fucking Gun of BFG, about the half the size of a football field and capable of knocking out entire cruisers or a squadron of escorts in one well aimed shot. Regardless of your country of origin, there is no way in hell they're fitting that on a 'Russ chassis...

In my opinion, all of those badly named and planned new variants can go to hell. They sound way to gimmicky for my taste, and in reality will probably work with a job in mind that is too specific for inclusion in an all-comers list.

[SilverTabby]

The snow in England isn't the reason the local councils are running out of salt. BoLS is... :D

[Col Von Barring]

Check out the link for a photo of the new plastic Valkyrie kit fearured in next months White Dwarf.


http://plasticlegions.blogspot.com/2009/02/new-imperial-guard-valkyrie-photo.html

[The_Guardman]

Arman, I'm a big fun of hellhouds, and I hope Botls is right about it. I was a lot disappointed when the last heavy armor/ long range was printed out, and knew that it was born from all the complaint on the GW forum. I was satisfied whit the cardboard/ semifast/ close range of previous version, mostly due to the auto-break from the Helfire cannon. For the low cost it has, was priceless, just taken a bit to learn. The actual version gained a bit from the augmented number of covers, but is still too high cost/ low efficiency IMHO.
A fast version do what the helly is supposed to do: spearhead and cause havoc. It's not a tank for the faint of heart, but I already know that if Botls is correct the engine of my 3 hellies will be started again...
Plus, the chemical fire... poison 2+/AP3? Simply another demonstration that the GW is starting to look at the game balance, after years over years of fluffy unusefulness. I suspect it will be not an automatic pick, most probably over 150 pt cost, but still something you will wonder about.

To me, be ready to see 200+ IG, 3 helly, valkirie and all the LeRs I can squeeze in! And Deathstrike... It's so stupidly powerful and at same time unusable that will be present at any cost :)

[Kasrkin]

May do a Nice 500pt Catachan army if new boxes are on the way :)

[spacewolflord]

It is nice to see the Deathstrike Missiles from Epic have not been forgotten about. I could care less about the Tanks except the Chimera and the Valkyrie. I just hope the infrantry doesn't get completely hosed with the Heavy Metal Love the IG is getting.

[EmilCrane]

Whats with the tank hate?

Heavy weapons and tanks are what the IG are about (you're probably all going "Ha Ha noob right now). I don't really think the base IG inf need an upgrade anyway. And I could care less about Ogryns, never used them, never will.

[Brother Wolf]

With serveral months to go I'm just giddy from the constant rumour stream. I went in and reworked one of my 3000pt lists for Apoc based on some assumptions for Chimeras & Platoons, pricing out everything else as I would normally. After some careful trimming & fidgeting, I am actually able to get something of each unit in that I usually reserve for bigger games at 2000. Bear in mind, my typical 2000pt Steel Legion force is still 7 Chimeras & 2-4 Support vehicles already, so the savings from the Chims & guardsmen equates to more bodies, which is usually something I'm lacking in mechanised infantry.

Cmd + 2 platoons & 7 Chimeras
2 Hellhounds
2 Bassy's w/ Armored Crew
1 Demolisher
3 deep strike ST squads
1 RR squad w/ lances

79 bodies
12 tanks

That's just unreal to me at 1995pts. Sure, points for the hounds, bassies and LRD will probably change, but then again ST's & RR's might go down too! I just hope the reality of IG is close to the rumours & dreams. It's going to be a great spring!

[The_Guardman]

I know that they're not in the fluff, but you should start to considerate one/two embarked ogryn units as alternative to RR ;)

[Laspistol]

Pretty sure Ogryns can be mounted in Chimeras according to the 4E codex, though they have weird embarking rules.

the rumoured Ogryn buffs make me smile though. Warboss level toughness, improved save, Feel No Pain and 3 wounds for a 25 pt model! reignites my fantasy of an IG assault force! they said I was mad....

[Escapehatch]

Honestly I love the newish Ogryn models and would have no qualms with fielding a squad if they end up being useful. The only thing limiting me is the real world cost of the models, but that goes with just about anything :p

[Brother Wolf]

ogryn units as alternative to RRActually I have always wanted to add some Ogryns as I like them despite their foibles. But I already have my converted Rough Riders which I'm proud of, so I'm stickin' with them.

[BLUE_ICE8822]

With serveral months to go I'm just giddy from the constant rumour stream

Hahaa...bless our geeky cotton socks.

I've got 16 Ogryns that were pretty useless in the old rules, T5 is just what the doctor ordered! You'll be seeing them marching in ogryn sized platoons when they appear in my army!

Troops supporting tanks and tanks supporting troops is hopefully what this new codex is all about. Currently the codex doesn't gel as well for 5th Ed.

[Xan]

Argh! I've always been a great fan of IG and shortly after I decide to go for WFB instead of W40k they try to break me.

[Sethero]

Xan, they will break you. Might as well give up resisting and get a shopping list together... :D

[Full_ork]

By current codex, Orygns are Ld8 IIRC, which is average among 40K armies.
I also did a little math about Orygns' survivability against the hordes (Orks) at Warseer, and they even have Eavy Armour to make up for their low save.
"10 Orygns /w Leader=260pts, each with T5 and 4+ Armour Save, combined for 21 Attacks, 30 Wounds and each have FNP. They're also S5 (or 6 with Ripper Gun).
10 Nobs /w Eavy Armour=250pts, with combined 20 wounds and 40 attacks.
30 Ard Boyz (without Nob)=330pts, with combined 30 attacks and 30 wounds.


That's really a bad comparison if your trying to find out if ogryns are broken because anyone using either of those ork squads will take a few pk's, expecially the 30 boy ardboys squad so it can have killing power. Not to mention nob squads can get the waaagh banner which would affect math hammer a good deal.

And if you include Pk's in the comparison the ogryns fair alot worse and don't hold the line as well.

So I don't see any evidence that the new ogryns are broken, strong sure, but the examples you brought up don't compare them with how the ork units are supposed to be played.

In any test where one unit is gimped and another is tooled up, the tooled up unit will look stronger.

[Escapehatch]

Something worth bringing up about ogryn is their current lack of wargear options. Unless they add a power weapon option to the bone'ead they're never going to be an all amazing CC force. They'll bog down pretty good (and make good cover screens) like they've always been intended to do, and with the removal of conscripts that might be the goal of giving them some thicker skin. I'm perfectly fine with making a unit excel at the role it was intended to fill.

[Bloodhowl]

Talked to someone in GW and he said the only new thing would be plastic command squads.

[warforger]

GW employees are just GW lunatics, they apparently diss FW nearly all the time despite it being owned by Games Workshop (kinda strange....). They will just say that rumors are just "made up"

[Imperial Blade]

Plastic Command Squad has been revealed!

Link (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/02/40k-sneak-peek-ig-command-squads-more.html)

Sprue Pictures:!

Catachan Command Squad (http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52609&d=1234721126)

Cadian Command Squad (http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52608&d=1234721126)

[Escapehatch]

Ratlings that don't look horrible, I'm impressed. That new psyker looks pretty wicked as well. I'm very eager to start seeing some rules for these new models.

[plawolf]

More plastic Valkyrie photos, from BOLS.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfXOsozsI/AAAAAAAAEF8/Ojnvhzl5pJg/s1600-h/valk-squadron.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfW4wZiBI/AAAAAAAAEF0/0a6b5Z-F2nI/s1600-h/valk-rear.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfW2sRpMI/AAAAAAAAEFs/aP4FzdwM6BE/s1600-h/valk-cockpit.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfmntgGKI/AAAAAAAAEGc/3J0axADEly4/s1600-h/valk-sprue-4.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfmUXqpZI/AAAAAAAAEGU/r0GgOOQX2DA/s1600-h/valk-sprue-3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfmYBI13I/AAAAAAAAEGM/BnMFah20BnU/s1600-h/valk-sprue-2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhfXQkXUdI/AAAAAAAAEGE/wEPBnnrvIjM/s1600-h/valk-sprue-1.jpg

I want three NOW!

[warforger]

Wait wait, IB is that a heavy flamer I see in the Cadian set?

[Shoota Fodder]

Yes I think it is. :D

HFs in Infantry Squads anyone? ;)

[Brother Wolf]

We all know they aren't coming first round, but note the great coat in the background.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SZhdXYDcK8I/AAAAAAAAEFE/JaoCmXAF4ts/s1600-h/IG-cmd-07.jpg

It could be a prelude.

[warforger]

And notice how his lasgun looks out of date compared to newer versions

[Imperial Blade]

The guy in the background is unfortunately only an old metal Valhallan guardsman. Though it could still be a hint to something bigger.

[Escapehatch]

More IG Stuff (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/02/40k-fantasy-news-studio-openday-2009.html)

Sentinels with plasma cannons, PLASMA CANNONS!!!

[Col Von Barring]

Where is the fifth torso? Only 4 are visible. There has been some discussion on other sites about it being the medi-pack or the sniper but on closer examination, the conclusion seems to be not. Any ideas anyone?

[Sethero]

It's a fair bet it's the sniper. You don't see the other side of the cloak piece, and really, the way the arm looks... it makes sense that way I think.

[Imperial Blade]

OMG The Master of Ordnance sounds bloody awesome!

[Shoota Fodder]

I actually like the sound of Master Of The Fleet. Also, his model is so fucking cool.

[Brother Wolf]

For the sake of discussion, let's bring some of the tiny text out here so we can read it;

Astropath - +1 on own reserve rolls
Master of Ordnance - Allows S9 Ord Barrage
Master of Fleet - Opponent -1 on reserve rolls

Sentinels look to get PlasCannons and ML now as well, (strange that MM is absent from the photos)

[warforger]

Actually, I'd bet that those weapons are for the Heavy Support version of the Sentinal, which is more armored.

I think the Master Of the ordinance is useless IMO, since you already have a Basilisk anyway, why the hell would you need him?

[Shoota Fodder]

Allows S9 Ord Barrage

The bold part may be crucial, warforger. ;)

[Sethero]

Plus, it's easier to find/neutralize a bassy... hitting one character in the midst of a horde army would be much harder in comparison. No word as to the costs or how many shots the master of ordinance will get though, so the bassy might be worth it.

Also note:
-IG Imperial Advisors work like the SM Chapter Masters do for Apocalypse.

Now, it seems like, from this note from BoLS, they're Apoc units.

I know the plasma cannon will be the heavy version of the sentinel, probably along with the lascannon and ML variants, which sucks somewhat... no more outflanks using lascannon sentinels!

[warforger]

The bold part may be crucial, warforger.

Bassie is barrage too. (I think, though that maybe with indirect fire)

[Imperial Blade]

It's a great ability for an IG army that doesn't have any bassies (ie. Mine). It allows me to field even more Russes and Guardsmen without having to worry about being shot from super long range.

[warforger]

Umm dude, you realize Russes then come in squads right?

[Escapehatch]

I haven't seen any confirmation on that rumor warforger. I actually haven't even heard talk of it for months and months.

[Sheep]

I'm excited over the new models. However a recent rumor has really dampened that view.

The infantry box sets will be reduced to 10 men for 35$ (aus). Apparently their not re-cuts (for those who wanted more proportioned catachans) and they don't contain heavy weapons.

Not sure if this is true, but if it is...

Anyway, I will definitely be getting every other model however. Their all so characterful its fantastic. I'm even considering the ratlings, whom i formerly hated.

[Fixer]

The officer of the fleet sounds like a really nice addition to the army. One that will wreak havok with forces that rely on outflanking or deepstriking units.

Thinking demons, tyranids, and various flavors of space marines here.

I just hope there's some way to get berets en masse. I can finally make that Falklands war imperial guard force I've been thinking about.

[Shoota Fodder]

I think we're still going to be limited to Green Stuff, Fixer. What body models were you planning on using anyway?

[Fixer]

Cadians, the short coats under the flak armor match. Was going to GS on a few of those mustaches and paint everything in the drab camo green of the 1980s British army. Valkyries painted up as Sea Harriers.

There's at least one beret head there that's visible on the Catachan set. Perhaps there's more coming. One can only hope!

[Sethero]

The infantry box sets will be reduced to 10 men for 35$ (aus). Apparently their not re-cuts (for those who wanted more proportioned catachans) and they don't contain heavy weapons.

I've not heard this at all... but that's scary. Do you have a source for that? I've heard recut sprues and the 10 man w/heavy weapon arrangement from a few sources, so I think that should be pretty safe. They still want the army to be collectible after all, and with infantry dropping in points cost, it would be very costly to build a guard army if every squad were $35.

[Sheep]

The Dude from Warseer posted up a thread of rumor summaries.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182510

A little way down and there is a section detailing what i said, apparently from the people who went to the design studio open day.

[Escapehatch]

I like that little tidbit about the potential for AP3 hellguns. Whether it be a single round of shooting or not, that's a pretty tasty feature. Since I've always played a stormtrooper themed army (which has always left something to be desired) that would make me a happy camper. Unfortunately I could see the Valk/Stormtrooper army becoming a rather common sight in the future.

[Xan]

Warseer people found a goldmine (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3305878&postcount=906).

Yeah, I'm definitely starting Guard, my beginnings of WFB Chaos be damned.

[spacewolflord]

Thats a cool find, but a really bad posting. So Khorny.

[Brother Wolf]

I am positively salivating, (and glad I can read French).

A few things I'm curious about;

Obusier is Howitzer in French if I'm not mistaken. Are we getting Krieg style weapons? The Medusa argues very strongly for that as do the other heavy duty kit we see such as Manticores & such. Still, that was an odd one and it's not a barrage weapon either. Furthermore, Artillery as a weapon type seems rampant. There's even an Artillery Sgt Harker who has an unprecedented number of 4's in his statline. I guess lifting earthshaker shells makes one strong AND goo at fighting & shooting?

Fusil radiante laser is clearly the Hellgun, so crappy strength but MEQ busting AP is too cool for words. I'll take my 5's to wound if I can negate an armor save.

And what's with all the flower weapons, (roquettes). We have some kind of artillery which is a whopper, but we also have a missile launcher as well, (lance-roquette multiple). This would also seem like a Kreig seige weapon.

FA12 sentinels in the heavy slot is pretty sweet, esp if enclosed.

Note also the Hydra is in the list. Very interesting. Planetstrike may really change things. I wonder if the Hyrda can target Jetbikes, Deffkptas and other things more easily?

There are 11, count 'em, 11 named special characters in the list. All of our favorites are back. Huzzah!!! Well, not all of them. I note Col-Com Gaunt is absent. And can Straken REALLY have a MEQ save?

It's going to be a good year for the Guard.

[Dragoon]

Armand: Is that french? I totally thought it was in spanish and my years of not studying or using the language had just made me really bad at it... DOH!

Also, in honor of greatness for the IG players, and the fact I love TF2 and its appropriate for Armand.

CHEERS MATE! to good times for the guard!


This does make me wonder how much of the rumor mill is true, obviously almost everything about the vehicles is spot on (which is pretty awesome), but Conscripts are still there, and we can't see point values yet. I wonder how much about infantry is right now.

[Xan]

Those pictures thoroughly broke my resolve. To hell with my beginnings of a WFB army, Valkyrie inserted Stormtroopers with Executioner support it is. WHAT'S THAT, MARINE, YOU HAVE A 3+ PLUS SAVE?

And what's with all the flower weapons, (roquettes).

Seems to me like they're rockets. And I'm totally calling shotguns pompguns from now on. :p

[Shoota Fodder]

Well wow.... Just wow.

I'm personally really looking forward to a fleshed out Fluff Chapter in the new 'dex. :D

Most of these characters are really unknown to me, and some of the tanks would be pretty cool with more info.

[Brother Wolf]

I'm willing to bet the 110pts for a base platoon of 25 is spot on based on everything else we've been hearing and the Chimera pricing was coroborated via something from Forgeworld or an 'official' PDF as I recall, (racking my brain to remember where I saw the pts first, but it was in book/PDF for an Inquisition Chimera or somethign to that effect).

More confirmation from reading it. Note the entries for Equipe d'Arme Lourde. That, my friends, must be a heavy weapon team. There are two entries, the 2nd being a Vet entry, (note the bump in BS). Same statline as a Garde or Veteran, respectively, save for 2 wounds. Looks like the big base is probably now mandatory, (damn, I have a TON of guys to go back and revise now). What's more interesting is...

What is a Garde du Corps? Troupe du Choc are stormtroopers & Garde Penal are penal legion troops, each with a corresponding sgt. What guard unit woudl have both BS & WS 4??? Back in the day, that would've been Catachan Devils, but now... Hmmmm...

[Shoota Fodder]

My French isn't perfect, but guessing, I would say bodyguard? Or veteran?

Very possibly it could be an upgraded guardsmen for the command squad, much like in the old codex. Improved accuracy and melee abilities sounds about right.

[Escapehatch]

Those pictures thoroughly broke my resolve. To hell with my beginnings of a WFB army, Valkyrie inserted Stormtroopers with Executioner support it is. WHAT'S THAT, MARINE, YOU HAVE A 3+ PLUS SAVE?



Noooooo it has begun :p

Oh well, my mechanized stormtrooper army has enough dust on it to prove that I've been playing that style of list even through the hard times ;)

[Sethero]

What guard unit woudl have both BS & WS 4???

I'm going to bet officer/character retinues. Guard haven't ever had really decent protection for their characters or officers, so this could be a massive boon.

There are a few tiny little things that I'm not liking in there, but those are definitely overwhelmed by all the sweet stuff I absolutely love in this little leak. Jeebus, I hope this isn't a hoax...

[Ledindon]

Garde du corps indeed is bodyguard. Shoota is right. And Brother Armand had it on the spot for the rest of the entries, it seems ;)

[Brother Wolf]

I AM SO SMART! S.M.R.T.

I mean S.M.A.R.T.:D In all seriousness, I'm curious what Seth, and others, might not like about this? I mean, I'm looking at the fact that older tanks have been restored, FW models are now coming into the core list increasing the overall variety of armor/artillery and for the first time skimmers, the Hellgun finally has some real bite, the Exterminator is now drowning in shots/turn (a long time favorite of mine), a bunch of new and interesting sounding options have appeared. What's not to like?

For me, I do one ONE option. Shotguns. Still Guard S and no AP. Just sad, really.

But aside from that there are very few things I see that make me upset. Even without the special rules and points, this summary sheet make me really happy to be a guard collector/player.

[Escapehatch]

If I had to pick ONE thing to gripe about, it would be 12/10/10 continuing to exist on Chimeras. I would really like to see 12/11/10, but other than that I'm happy as a clam about every single change. As a matter of fact there are so many good changes that I don't even care about what I wanted to see happen :p Now... special rules and basic army construction is going to be what makes or breaks me.

[Dragoon]

I agree, I don't have any idea whats not to like Armand, im positively giddy with excitement about this summary. Im so tempted to try just about every vehicle permutation there is right now for Russ, Hellhound, and Basilisk. About all I dislike is not knowing more about point values and special rules! The only complaint I can see is gonna come from MEQ armys who can be positively destroyed with this new list (although not much worse than the current Leman Russ Battle Cannon does now anyways).

Vet. BS Heavy Weapons teams are going to be sweet (assuming reasonable cost), actual consistently hitting lascannons! Autocannon teams that don't land 1 hit of 6 because you roll four 3's. Im also curious about what the penal squad does, my guess is Fearless, since the rumor is called 'desperation', combined with its slightly better chance at melee, simple enough.

I like the Hellgun change, although I really want to know how a S3 weapon can have an AP3, does the shot just happen to always hit cracks in the armor? I mean not even an Autocannon can pierce that armor! and that things a solid slug o death.

Psyckers and Commissars may finally find a place in my army too, depending on how things change. A whole lot of new armys types are going to be really viable with these changes, ranging from mechanized to melee based probably. Alot of the stuff also seems to open up some more risktaking behaviors, which will allow the guard act more like the army it is!

Edit: actually, one thing to be sad about, the only metal Commisar I had was for Ibram Gaunt, and hes not there! oh well, Commisar Lord maybe?

[moleytov]

I notice the heavy 20 was not just rumour. Not particularly happy about that. In fact not happy at all.

[Escapehatch]

@Dragoon

Armor penetration isn't necessarily tied to the strength of the weapon. I'd look at the armor penetration on a Hellgun more like a constant rending. The focus of the shots eats through armor, but each individual shot lacks substantial punch.

@Moleytov

Care to elaborate as to why?

[Dragoon]

Why moleytov? I don't see it as a major issue in the Punisher varient being overpowering or anything, arguably thats a condition of a poor choice for an outload for a Russ unless it is fairly cheap. I certainly have no plans to use that one unless the BS can be raised to 4 or something via an upgrade.

With guard BS, its 10 hits on average at S5 AP-, on Orks thats something like 4/5 kills per volly, on MEQ thats 1/2 kills, on GEQ thats about 6-8 kills. Also, its only 24" in range, if im getting that close to the enemy, id rather use a demolisher cannon probably.

The only fun part is rolling 20 dice and seeing your opponents face as you pull that out for one tank's worth of shooting.

All in all, its probably my least favorite variant like I said, so I dunno why your not happy. Unless your also an IG player, then yes, its disappointing, but im way more happy about the Executioner's Plasma cannon than id be upset about one situational variant.


Edit so I don't post again
Escapehatch: Although that is true, Strength and AP do have some mild connection to eachother as I view it. Almost nothing (or maybe nothing) at S7 for shooting has an AP less than 4 im aware of. If something is going to punch through your body's muscle and bone (or Metal for Necron, etc) like its paper, I doubt there is much that armor will do against it.

Edit2, a bit more:
If something is hitting only hard enough that even a normal guardsman has a good chance at living through the shot, why is it going through marine armor? Rending I can understand, because usually thats a focused hit, lucky or well placed shot (ie Sniper), or something to that effect.

Im not aware of anything else at S3 that would have such a high AP, it just feels kinda unusual. Most of the time you aren't seeing AP3 until a minimum of S7.

[warforger]

Ion Cannon, Plasma Weapons <(OH CMON YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ONE YOUR GUARD)

Trisikle which is a Banshee exarch wargear option fires a assault 3 S3 ap2 shots.

As for the Heavy 20 weapon, keep in mind, Demo Cannon has the same range, double the strength and ap2, compared to its ap-. In a way, it may be UP'd if you compare it to the demolisher, but then again its heavy 20, take a squadron of 3, thats 60 shots, thats not to mention the added on Heavy Bolter shots escalating to 87 shots. Now the Heavy Bolter hype has a point finally.

[Heretic]

Now while this may be elaborated in the codex when it is released - but why is there an option for a Master of the Fleet? While the option is a good one, I can't see a logical reason for the option to be present. Of course, this is me being a naval fanboy - but surely the 'Master of the Fleet' should be...on a ship?

(Nor is there a valid rank in the Imperial Navy for that matter)

However, I do very much like the rumours for this codex. Maybe it's time to rust off the old guard, and start up that airbourne company I always wanted to do.

[Escapehatch]

@Dragoon

I don't deny that the majority of weapons in 40k tend to link higher strength with better penetration, but there are exceptions out there. The best example I can give that goes the opposite way (high strength, low AP) is the Multilaser. I was simply trying to give an example of how a low strength weapon could potentially penetrate heavier armor.

[Dragoon]

@Escapehatch: I get that, and Warforgers example seems to show the idea also. It just seemed a bit odd, and if it was a 1 of a kind sorta deal it would seem nothing a really quirky weapon that should have been given rending status instead, but made that way to fit what someone wanted.

@warforger: Throw in Heavy Bolter shots, and the argument makes a bit more sense. However, Id still argue that its probably the 2nd weakest weapon on a Russ besides that twin linked autocannon. Although it does partially depend on points, there are some major downsides to the gatling gun with its 20 heavy shots.

24" range: really uncomfortable place to be in without some sort of shield of units/ cover, especially if an army has fast vehicles (bikes usually) or infantry with meltabombs. With an 11 back armor, Krak Grenades or meltabombs are plentiful, and its not going to take many attacks to just destroy a Russ that way. If you take 3 of these things, your going to have to exercise extreme caution to not get hit by some sort of assault and have to deal with 10 Krak Grenades, thus scoring about 5 glances or penetrations.

In comparison, every other Russ varient besides the Demolisher has at least 36" of range, placing you anywhere you want to be pretty much on a table, the Basic Leman Russ a range where you can park in on the far end of a 6' table and just terrorize people from way out of range for them to realisically get to.

Damage: As shown before, this gun dosen't kill much at any level, one squad of guardsmen is nothing to lose sleep over, and 2 Marines are not a big loss. Lets compare this to a normal Leman Russ, whose Blast template pretty much leaves 1 unit who gets a 1 to wound roll standing of about any 10 man squad weather MEQ or GEQ. Also, S8 is way more likely to cause instant death, and can actually be used on a vehicle with more than 10 armor realistically.

Edit: Just wanna also say these are my thoughts, and since it seems a bit off topic, im probably going to avoid elaborating any more on this here. Point values and possible special rules are also a major determining factor we know nothing about.

[Turbo164]

NORK IS IN CODEX! That's worth 30 bucks right there :P

Loving pretty much everything I'm seeing.

[warforger]

@warforger: ... However, Id still argue that its probably the 2nd weakest weapon on a Russ besides that twin linked autocannon.....

Its now 4 shots and still twin-linked, I really feel sorry for SW players now.

[AidanPrydeJF]

Leman Russes are getting nasty.

Confirmed stats of Executioner and Punisher

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/02/40k-news-imperial-guard-summary-leak.html

[warforger]

Actually, with the new rules for the Ripper Gun, I'd imagine the Gatling is going to be even less useful.

@Adrian, old news, in fact here's the link to even bigger
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3305878&postcount=906

[Xan]

Oh well, my mechanized stormtrooper army has enough dust on it to prove that I've been playing that style of list even through the hard times

Hey, I've been meaning to try that since I saw the Kasrkin models years ago. :p

[Laspistol]

Very interesting find Xan. i have been squinting at those things for the last hour dreaming up possibilities

great to see the Leman Russ variants are back. look at the Executioner's plasma cannon.... Heavy 3 Blast now, at S7 and AP2. bye bye infantry!

all those special characters. the Mongolian rough rider captain is back... and who is this "Seigneur Commissaire" senior commissar? with 5 WS & BS, 3 wounds, 10 leadership. Yarrick has clones! probably gonna cost too many points though

[k0mmandant]

Probably the commissar lord.

[BLUE_ICE8822]

The gatling gun is an over hyped weapon it seems.

For 175pts, you can get 7 Ogryns pumping out 21 of exactly the same shots as the Leman Russ, Albeit at shorter range. The Ogryns can also hit harder in combat at the same time and are an amazing meat shield!

Stick them on an objective and your opponent is not going to be claiming it unless they fancy targeting everything they have at the unit for 2 turns. Not bad for 175pts!

[Sethero]

Well, the gatling makes life hard for a lot of different units. Against Nids, they're vicious, forcing a lot of bad armor saves. Against units like kroot it's devastating. Heck, it could even find some use against units like ork bikes; they're mainly susceptible only to having to take a lot of saves, which the gatling is exactly designed for. That said, it's a specialist unit mainly useful if you're facing some decently large infantry forces and special cases.

@BA, the shotgun was a disappointment, being pretty much useless once again. There are a few other things... I was sorry to see Gaunt's absence. One personal disappointment is that from all appearances, the current Nid codex doesn't stand a chance against the kinds of firepower we're seeing here. Since I'm just finishing my Nid army, that's a little annoying... but again, the benefits far, far outweigh my disappointments.

[Escapehatch]

It's true that there is a lot of devastating firepower in that list, but we can't speak from a game balance standpoint until we have definitive points costs for everything.

[Distr0]

I still have around 100 Valhallan Guardsmen, would be nice if they remade them in plastic. Man those blisters were expensive at the time :eek:

[Fixer]

If we're comparing units in other armies as well.

Remember that an ork Shoota mob + nob is probably putting out 54 str 4 shots, 9 str 5 shots and is a scary prospect in melee. Suddenly a 20 shot gatling doesn't seem so bad.

[Bloodhowl]

has there been a price listshown yet?

[Full_ork]

Remember that an ork Shoota mob + nob is probably putting out 54 str 4 shots, 9 str 5 shots and is a scary prospect in melee. Suddenly a 20 shot gatling doesn't seem so bad.


In theory yes, but in reality not all those 54 are going to line up to be within that 18 inches and there will be casualties before they get close enough.

Not saying shootas are bad, I love them myself, but statistics imply they get there untouched and are all in range.

With that said, I have no issue with any of the new guard rumors except the fact I'm going to have to buy more guardsmen now since they got alot cheaper.

[k0mmandant]

Right, but we can say that the Gatling gun isnt within 24 inches, or it can be stunned before you get within its range. Even still, you kill 10 orks, thats still more shots than the Gatling gun.

It may have a special overheat rule or something go along with it. You can't assume its overpowered just from the ref sheet.

[Xenith]

The volume of shots is scary - suddenly with 29 shots, every marine in your unit has been wounded, meaning the sarge, special and heavy troopers all take a save, meaning you may have trouble taking that tank out.

Its all going to be about the alpha strike, methinks.

[warforger]

Or you could take the Executioner and add in plasma cannon side sponsons , I mean 5 plasma blasts=Dead TEQ's

[Xenith]

The executioner is only 3 blasts. Bloody guard getting all the fun. I think im going to have to cave in and get something as close to an armoured company as possible with this guard codex.

[warforger]

Or you could take the Executioner and add in plasma cannon side sponsons , I mean 5 plasma blasts=Dead TEQ's

:spartaaa:

[Xenith]

Whoops, sorry! ...knew I should have learned to read...

[Full_ork]

Right, but we can say that the Gatling gun isnt within 24 inches, or it can be stunned before you get within its range. Even still, you kill 10 orks, thats still more shots than the Gatling gun.

It may have a special overheat rule or something go along with it. You can't assume its overpowered just from the ref sheet.

More shots at bs2 that must all be in 18 inches.

I'm not saying the gatling gun is broken, but I don't agree that it's no worse then shoota boys.

Your correct though that there's probably some sort of catch to it.

[Sethero]

It's still a rumor thread, and all I'm doing is throwing a little conjecture out there. I don't think it's going to be imbalanced, nor do I think I will have that big a problem with any of the new units. I'm just pointing out the things that are disappointments on some level for me personally...

And one more time, the benefits for me far outweigh any negatives, either true or perceived.

[Fixer]

Looks like the grenade launcher kept its old stats.

However, in 5th edition there's more cover and blast weapons have improved. With some possible discounts for taking a GL in preference to a plasma gun (as seen in the other recent codex releases) and of course, the fact that a GL does not explode and kill you, perhaps we'll be seeing more of this guard weapon?

[Full_ork]

We might.

It would also depend on how many points the GL is for Plasma will still work against armor 2 and fnp.

[smg7618]

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but the release date is May 2, and price is $25.

www.belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-news-ig-codex-release.html

Enjoy!

[Fake Sinatra]

I am thinking we'll see the end of "suicide command squads" since I would hope that command squads in the new codex will have useful abilities that require them to be kept alive.

That being said I'll probably put grenade launchers in my command squads. I'm sure as hell not putting Meltas or Flamers in there.

[Brother Wolf]

JWolf over at BoLS is having IG dreams (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-army-list-imperial-guard-dreams.html). Based on what the rumour mill has said and what he has here, IG forces really should be getting a big leg up in teh bodies AND armor dept, (recall I posted my own theory lists earlier).

123 Infantry, 3 transports (1 being a Valk), 2 MBT's and 4 support tanks at 2000? Sick.

[Full_ork]

MBT's?

[Kushan's_Wrath]

Main Battle Tanks, like the Leman Russ.

[Seraphim2150]

By the sound of it I might be coming back to the hobby, the new guard stuff sounds good. Any rumours about other plastic kits other than Cadian or Catachan?

[Dragoon]

At least the Valkerie of the new models is coming out in plastic, Shock Troops are supposedly going to be changed in their configuration of plastic to include more variety of special weapons and a heavy weapons team. The only other thing is that stormtroopers are now supposed to come in plastic.

I am not aware if the new Hellhound and Russ varients are coming in seperate boxes, or as something like the current setup where you can buy a metal sprue to get the gun part only to modify from the chassis. This also is unknown for the command squad to my knowledge. If anyone else knows, id appreciate it.

A question though I want to put out there: the melta cannon varient of the Hellhound, is there really a perk to it being a blast? Since its not ordinance, you don't get the roll 2 dice and take the best for penetration. All I can come up with is that its a slightly improved accuracy compared to BS3 most likely, and if you fire it on a group, you might kill 5 units versus 1.

[Escapehatch]

A melta blast is pretty awesome in its own right. And the weapon still benefits from the melta special rule, so within half range you'll be getting 2d6 anyway.

[Dragoon]

I can get that Escapehatch, but then what makes it any different from a Multimelta? I just wonder if a blast would have anything special to it is all, since id assume this varient is for vehicle punching. I feel like there should be more to it im just not seeing.

[Tave]

isnt the melta blast one the shot that ignores cover?

Heres my Question, has anyone heard of anything that would indicate you can take grenadiers?

[Sethero]

Unless something has changed, none of the blast weapons ignore cover. I've not heard anything either way on whether grenadiers are going to be available or not. With the valkyries coming out though, I would bet grenadiers will be an option, or stormtroopers will be available as troops in one way or another. Still, no news on that.

[Brother Wolf]

I'd recommend a review of the Summary on Warseer (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185873) for those coming in late. With regards to Grenadiers, here's the rumour;

"Company Commander
Can reportedly be upgraded for x-amount to get Storm Troopers as Troops"

[Sethero]

Thanks BA! I missed it the first time I looked at that Warseer roundup.

[Tave]

Yeah Thanks BA. This makes me a happy bunny

[Sansa]

I am 90% positive I am going to sell all of my SM sprues to finance a Guard army. I wanted to make them but I did not like their current status in the 40k arena (barely competitive), this changes everything. I can't wait for May :)

[Imperial Blade]

GW has just emailed the most recent newsletter containing pictures of fully assembled Cadian and Catachan Command Squads, The Lord Commissar, and Ratlings!

http://gwutil.com/newpictures/products/Incoming_Cadians_550x300.jpg

http://gwutil.com/newpictures/products/Incoming_Catachans_550x300.jpg

http://gwutil.com/newpictures/products/Incoming_Commissar_250x200.jpg

http://gwutil.com/newpictures/products/Incoming_Ratlings_250x200.jpg

[warforger]

Hell Yah

[k0mmandant]

That Commisar lord.. is.. so.. awesome....

[Brother Wolf]

I would also point out that the Cadian standard bearer has bionics and a power weapon. Either this is just for effect or the rules for the command squad are changing radically. If I could give all my cmd vets power weapons I could see a 5 man PW suicide squad diving in somewhere.

[Xenith]

Is the Cadian commander holding a cigar? And the Catachan commander is awesome!

[Cannon_Fodder]

It's about time we got some decent Ratling models too! Hopefully people will start to make more use of them now. Personally I think Rat's are one of the hidden strengths of the current IG codex, ten sniper rifles (now with rendering), an improved cover save and infiltrate all for the price of a lascannon squad? What's not to like? (other than the whole space hobits thing).

[chandlerr_360]

I'm really digging the new ratling models.

[Cannon_Fodder]

New IG Codex Cover! (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?doCache=true&aId=14500025)

Personally I perfer the old one...

EDIT: And why the hell are they waving white flags?!

[Dragoon]

No worries Cannon, it appears the white flag is just a banner design they added for the standard. Although, with how many times my HQ's HSO has ran off the table after losing combat, I probably might need to take a white flag.... bleh.

[warforger]

I agree, this one looks too cartoonish and too 2nd/earlry 3rd-ish. The it should be more unbuckled helmet firing off at the enemy.

[Sansa]

I like it, I think it better represents the guard than the previous one. I don't have a preference for one over the other though.

[kasrkinsquad]

I just finished reading up on the current rumors and while I am really excited a few things bother me. Mainly pricing details and the contents of our new battle pack.

From what I have heard our squads are going down to 10 man per pack at 25USD and our battle force is now 20 guardmen, one HWT, one command squad, and one sentinel. I am depressed about the lose of the Russ especially if the rumor is true that up to three tanks count as one heavy support choice.

[spacewolflord]

From what I have been able to gather there will be two Heavy Weapon Teams and a Command Squad at the lose of the Leman Russ. That is a troop choice in a box with possible something else in it, the Sentinel. To me that is a great thing for new guard players to be able to get everything for a troop in one stop.

[Dragoon]

I do think a command squad will be a nice gain, since ive currently been proxy-ing Vox casters usually to represent most of the stuff in the Command Squad.

The loss of a Russ mostly hurts imo because so many varients are going to now exist, I have 5 Russ chasseis, all of them using a regular battle cannon. I hope at least that bits will come into existance that carry the all/most large weapons and sponsoons, since if I can get 2 or so cannons of each varient, then for all things but Apocolypse im set by just replacing the cannons.

Id still prefer getting 20 troops versus 10 and a Sentinal, but maybe thats just me.

[Olgerth Istaarn]

I like the new Psyker model, seen here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2430542_P4Mb2.jpg

The dude looks dead serious, a refreshing change from the "OH GOD MY HEAD HURTS" sanctioned psykers...

[Dragoon]

I get the same feeling from the new ratlings, the ld ones look positively puny, the new set looks ready for combat!

Same for the psykers really, they look more army ready then depressed.

[Brother Wolf]

Mmmm, Valkyrie box (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/Sb2mze22INI/AAAAAAAAEao/ouV7D96yVWU/s1600-h/valk-box-02.jpg)

BoLS has many of the boxes up here (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-news-imperial-guard-boxes-may.html)

[redemptor_40k]

I might just be rehashing old information by posting this here but I feel it is a good summary of things that some people may not have heard.

Give credit to the original poster - emsgoof

New IG info

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Got this recently - it's legit, have the hard copy to prove it. A summary for your browsing interest.

"The new Codex is designed around the Imperial Guard Infantry Company - a rank upon rank of soldiers supported by a huge array of armoured vehicles and battle tanks. The range is well supported with plastic box sets for two famous Imperial Guard regiments - the Catachan Jungle Fighters and Cadian Shock Troops - as well as a number of vehicles including battle tanks, troop transports and scout walkers.

The key themes of the Imperial Guard army - lots of men, lots of tanks - are highlighted in this Codex. Infantry Platoon squads can be deployed together as a single scoring unit of up to fifty men can [sic], and tanks can be chosen in squadrons of up to three vehicles: this brutal mass of bodies and armour is what the Imperial Guard is all about.

The Codex includes a number of special characters, including famous officers such as Captain Al'Rahem of the Tallarn Desert Raiders, Commander Chenkov of Valhalla and Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken of Catachan. Each of these characters has a unique rule or set of orders that conveys the character of his home regiment. In addition, legends such as Commissar Yarrick and Ursarkar Creed are brought up to date, and new characters such as Knight Commander Pask of Cadia and the Catachan Devil Gunnery Sergeant Harker are presented."

"Features & Benefits of Codex: Imperial Guard:
- Reduced poitns costs and Infantry Platoon special rules allow Imperial Guard armies to rival even Ork and Tyranid hordes for huge units. Plastic box sets and the two Battleforce sets allow customers to build such an army quickly and conveniently.

- Chimera fighting vehicles are now the standard Transport upgrade for Imperial Guard squads, and can be chosen without need for special rules or variant army organisation: any Imperial Guard army can be fielded as Mechanised Infantry.

- Command Squads can now influence nearby Infantry Squads through the use of the orders rules. These range from allowing nearby Guardsmen an extra shot with their lasguns, benefiting from improved cover saves, or receiving a bonus to their anti-tank shooting. These rules make the Command Squads more important than ever before, and introduce a new dynamic into the Imperial Guard army.

- Tanks can be fielded in squadrons of up to three vehicles as a single choice on the Force Organisation chart, allowing players to include more than ever in their armies.

- The expanded army list includes several tank designs available from Forge World, such as the Medusa, Hydra Flak Tank and Leman Russ Vanquisher.

- This book revisits many of the Imperial themes of the Guard army, including new character types like Astropaths, Primaris Psykers and Lord Commissars. Touches like these firmly place these human soldiers in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium."

- Leman Russ special rule: "Lumbering Behemoth" - a Leman Russ that remained stationary or moved up to 6" can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it may fire - even if the turret weapon is ordnance.

Models-
May 2nd-
Cadian Shock Troops (box of 10 plastic guardsmen). "Can be used to build Infantry Squads and Conscript Squads, and more exotic squads such as Veteran Squads and Penal Legion squads. Repackaged box set offers an Infantry Squad in a single purchase, and includes options for flamers, grenade launchers, vox-caster and Sergeant. Vox-casters are more useful than ever before as they allow officers to re-roll the Leadership test to determine whether their orders are issued successfully or not.

Catachan Jungle Fighters (box of 10 plastic guardsmen). Same info as above.

Imperial Guard Command Squad (5 figure plastic box set). "79 components on sprue, including plasma gun, meltagun sniper rifle, heavy flamer, respirators, power weapon and power fist."

Catachan Command Squad (5 figure plastic box set). "81 components on sprue, including plasma gun, meltagun, sniper rifle, heavy flamer, power weapon and power fist."

Primaris Psyker (1 figure blister). HQ choice Psyker Lord. Lightning Arc: Assault 2D6 Strength 6 psychic attack. Nightshroud: enemy units must pass a Leadership test to shoot the Psyker or his squad.

Imperial Guard Sentinel (1 figure box set). Can build a single Armoured Sentinel or Scout Sentinel from the Imperial Guard Codex. Armoured Sentinels have Front Armour 12, Scout Sentinels are open-topped but have the Scouts and Move Through Cover special rules. Weapon options include multi-laser, autocannon, lascannon, heavy flamer, plasma cannon, and missile launcher. Replaces all existing Sentinel box sets in range. Can be upgraded with hunter-killer missiles, searchlights, camo netting and smoke launchers.

Imperial Guard Ratlings (5 figure blister). Abhuman snipers with Stealth and Infiltrate special rules. Characteristic snacks modelled onto bases. Sculpted by Dave Thomas.

Imperial Guard Valkyrie (1 plastic model kit). Includes multi-laser and lascannon weapon options, multiple rocket pods and Hellstrike missiles, plus optional heavy bolter sponsons. Includes new clear plastic flying stand for Warhammer 40,000 vehicles. Can be fielded in squadrons of 1-3 Valkyrie Assault Carriers per Fast Attack choice. Transport capacity of 12 models. Grav Chute Insertion: embarked squads can deep strike over any point the Valkyrie moves over in its Movement phase, taking dangerous terrain tests as they land.

May 16-
Imperial Guard Cadian Battleforce. - Imperail Guard Cadian Command Squad, 20 Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops, 3 Imperial Guard Cadian Heavy Weapons Teams, 1 Imperial Guard Sentinel.

Imperial Guard Catachan Battleforce. -Imperial Guard Catachan Command Squad, 20 Imperial Guard Catachan Jungle Fighters, 3 Imperial Guard Catachan Heavy Weapons Teams, 1 Imperial Guard Sentinel.

Imperial Guard Regimental Advisors (3 figure blister). Includes Officer of the Fleet, Astropath and Master of Ordnance. Can be added to Imperial Guard Command Company HQ Squad. Whilst the Officer of the Fleet is alive, your opponent must subtract 1 from all his reserves rolls. Add +1 to all reserves rolls whilst the Astropath is alive. Master of Ordnance can unleash a Strength 9, AP3 Ordnance Barrage with unlimited range if he does not move.

Imperial Guard Lord Commissar (1 figure blister). HQ choice: leader-commissar who inspires his troops by leading from the front.

[emsgoof]

Sorry, would have posted it here if I'd seen this thread.
Recent addition to RelicNews...

[Brother Wolf]

BoLS has corroborated (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-news-imperial-guard-retailer-brief.html) the long list above.

I find the lumbering behemoth rule intriguing. You can fire the ordnance + any weapons you could normally, so sitting still means hull & sponsons + BC while on teh move it means BC + any one of the hull/sponson weapons. For my money that'd be mobile BC+HB every time. Hopefully the chassis benefits from that rule, (Mmmm, Demolisher+PC on the move, how sweet it is).

[Mantaray]

and yet i see no sign of plastic vallhalans >:(
on the plus side, i guess it does mean that i can has valkies.

[Dragoon]

Im looking forward to the 3 blast Plasma cannon if it comes with further Plasma sponsoons... 5 blasts with plasma will say bye to any heavy infantry squad as long as your luck isn't horrific.

[The_Guardman]

According to the last post from BotLS, it seem that GW is stepping back and again asking us to pay points for searchlights, reinforced armor, smokelaunchers and such.
I find this very odd. Equipment like searchlights or camo netting are quite mission specific, and to be used in tournament it require to know if there is some nightfight mission, not talking about the oddity that the vehicle have to be able to see the searchlight's target in first place.
Anyway, whitout forward knowledge, some equipment is too much specific to be brought in a competitive environment, while some other (reinforced armor, smokescreen) is mandatory on anything not-artillery.
I had feel that GW was going in the right direction whit the vehicle build-in equips in the SM armylists, and this backstep is really strange.

Add to this the large point cost (for some option, a dramatic increase) of the vehicles, and it seem that IG armies in competitive environment will be composed by turbo slugging 200+ infantries, stormtroopers and lot of valkiries (that, whit a clear commercial move, have a point cost ridiculously low in comparison to the other tanks).

Finally, I hope that for one time BotLS is wrong. Some of those things simply does not make sense to me... 150 pt for an hellhound, once you take reinforce armor & smokes? Simply too much.

[Col Von Barring]

This copied from BOLS but seen on other sites too. Interesting if correct. Will check with local GW store (3 doors away, how good is that!).


Fast Attack:
- Fast Tanks Squadron:
- You may choose any of the following tanks in a 1-3 tank squadron.
- Hellhound: 130 pts. Tank, fast. You can change the heavy bolter by a flamer for free or by a multi-melta by 15 pts. Extra armour 15 pts, searchlight 1 pts, heavy stubborn 10 pts, hunter-killer missile 10 pts, dozer blade 10 pts.
- Banewolf: 130 pts. Tank, fast. You can change the heavy bolter by a flamer for free or by a multi-melta by 15 pts. Extra armour 15 pts, searchlight 1 pts, heavy stubborn 10 pts, hunter-killer missile 10 pts, dozer blade 10 pts.
- Devil Dog: 120 pts. Tank, fast. You can change the heavy bolter by a flamer for free or by a multi-melta by 15 pts. Extra armour 15 pts, searchlight 1 pts, heavy stubborn 10 pts, hunter-killer missile 10 pts, dozer blade 10 pts.

The entire squadron can buy smoke launchers for 5 pts/mini or camo-netting for 20 pts/mini.

- Sentinel Squadron:
- Scout Sentinel: 35 pts, open-topped, scouts, move through cover, multilaser. Auto-cannon 5 pts, heavy flamer 5 pts, missile launcher 10 pts, laser cannon 15 pts. Searchlight 1 pt, hunter-killer missile 10 pts, the entire squadron can buy smoke launcher for 5 pts/mini and/or camo-netting for 10 pts / mini.



- Valkyrie: 100 pts.. Armour: 12-12-10
Skimmer, fast, scout, may deep strike
Equipment and weapons: extra armour, searchlight, 2 hellstrike missiles, multilaser
Options: change multilaser to laser-cannon +15 pts, change hellstrike missile for 2 multiple rockets pods for +30 pts, heavy bolters for +10 pts.
Can be bought in a 1-3 squadron.
Transport 12 models, they have the “grav chute insertion” (deep strike from the valk)



- Vendetta: 130 pts.. Armour: 12-12-10
Skimmer, fast, scout, may deep strike
Equipment and weapons: extra armour, searchlight, 3 twin-linked las-cannons
Options: change 2 las-cannon for 2 hellfury missiles for free, heavy bolters for +10 pts.
Can be bought in a 1-3 squadron.
Transport 12 models, they have the “grav chute insertion” rule.

Heavy Support:
Lemas Russ Squadron
Composition:vehicle squadron composed of 1-3 Leman Russ or Leman Russ Demolishers in any combination.

- Leman Russ Battle Tank. 150 pts Hull Heavy Bolter. May change it for a lascannon for 15 pts, may have sponsons with: heavy bolters 20 pts, multi-melta 30 pts, plasma cannons 40 pts.
LR may have Heavy stubborn for 10 pts, dozer blade 10 pts, h-k missile 10 pts, extra armour 15 pts. Entire squadron with camo-netting for 20 pts/model. One of the squadron tanks can be the squadron leader for 50 pts.

Same options for the next tanks:

- Leman Russ Exterminator: 150 pts.
- Leman Russ Vanquiser: 155 pts.
- Leman Russ Eradicator: 160 pts.
- Leman Russ Demolisher: 165 pts.
- Leman Russ Punisher: 180 pts.
- Leman Russ Executioner: 190 pts.

Artillery Squadron, 1-3 models in a squadron. Same options as the LR’s. Can be topped for 15 pts / model, the camo-netting cost 30 pts /model.

- Basilisk: 125 pts.
- Medusa: 135 pts. Can buy siege bombs for 5 pts.
- Colossus: 140 pts.
- Griffon: 75 pts.
- Hydra: 75 pts. Camo-netting cost 20 pts for it.

The following vehicles cannot be bought in a squadron:

- Manticore: 160 pts.
- Deathstrike: 160 pts.

[Fixer]

The new chemical weapons tanks can be taken in squadrons of 3? Ouch.

I wonder if those things fire like the current Hellhound or have a point blank spray.

edit: Looking at the leaked french info, the Devildog's chemical weapon does indeed count as a normal template weapon while the Hellhound has it's special rules.

[redsun95]

Had a look at the new Codex and models in my local GW yesterday.. very nice ;)

[LordAba]

@The_Guardman
Actually, 1/3 of the normal missions you fight will have some form of nightfight. The dawn of war style mission means IG need to have those lights or potentially lose out on a lot of shots.

[basuatreya]

I'm disappointed that the new battleforce box will include a Sentinel rather than a Leamon Russ. In fact GW took out the ruined buildings that they used to have in the battleforce.

I am wondering if the new Cadian spruces will be any different than the existing spruces. Same with the Heavy Weapons Teams. I'm wondering if they will be the same. If they are, I'm going to get another Battleforce now.

[Dragoon]

my thoughts:
I hope the Basilisk comes with Indirect fire built in, cause thats a bit of a price increase for an artillary with no armor boost according to the leaked summary list.

Medusa just makes me happy because a S10 AP1 finally exists for the guard. Finally something to take down that Monolith! Collosis will be an insane infantry killer if all thats said about it is true.

Of course my favorite varient of the Leman Russ is the most expensive, but ill probably have an executioner in my army anyways. Vehicle price increase is kinda annoying unless guardsmen really do go down a good bit in price, although it is probably justified with improved armor and Lumbering Behemoth rule.

The fact the Hellhound and all its varients are fast vehicles is pretty cool, I do with this released the info of a normal Chimera transport tho, Ive always been convinced that needs an armor up or a pt down, since I really doubt the normal Chimera would become a fast transport.

The Valk is one impressive machine tho, and its probably gonna be a fire magnet if your not the one who goes first. Scout/Fast gives alot of potencial for really devastating strikes, and opens alot of new avenues in mobility for the guard.

Cant wait till we can stop speculating more and have an actual codex in our hands though most of all!

[kasrkinsquad]

I have been hearing alot of complaints about Lemans being in squadrons is there a reason for that? (Not familiar with the squadron rules)

Basuatreya: From what I have seen it looks like GW has stopped production of the current battle force. What is out in the market is what's left. I am gonna see if I can buy a few more plus some Cadian shock trooper boxes. Also I believe the new sprues are the same sculpts as the old one just with more bitz for veteran squads, conscripts, and penal legions.

[Fixer]

I think the complaints about Leeman Russ squadrons is due to the delimitation of the amount of heavy support they can field.

Squadron rules are somewhat of a mixed bag. You have the disadvantage of any vehicle in the squadron receiving an immobilised result being destroyed instead. Any stunned results are taken as shaken as a benefit.

Also, all shots at a squadron are done from the armor facing of the nearest vehicle. If Eldra decides to spin the nearest tank on the spot with Eldritch storm and get a rear armor facing, you can kill the more distant forward facing tanks as if they had only 10 armor.

You do have the benefit of being able to place hits on a squadron. The squadron owner has to place penetrating hits accross his vehicles equally. If you're taking single penetrating hits from separate individual you can put them all on the same vehicle. 4 seperate enemy units causing a stunned, 2 weapon destroyed and a wrecked result can all be placed on the same vehicle meaning that the other 2 in the unit remain unscathed.

[Dragoon]

I think the reason people are complaining that tanks can be in squadrons is that people perceive that being overpowered. You were pretty much maxed out to 3 Russes in the current Codex, and thats only if you didn't want a Basilisk. Now 9 Russes could potentially be fielded, with even the basic model having a 14/13/11 now.

Leman Russes are hard to kill, 100 pts cheaper than a 14 all sides model, and theoretically a 9 tank army is possible at the 1750+ pt stage (1st time I can see it meeting FOC), I doubt anyone has enough tank busting in their army to handle that sort of swarm.

The only thing im familiar with is Squadron rules is a need to keep cohesion like infantry, and that an Immobilized result becomes a tank destroyed result (because otherwise the squadreon would be stuck in 1 place).

Edit: ACK! Ninja'ed by Fixer :lol:

[Brother Wolf]

When they first mention 1-3 per slot and the thought was squadrons, alot of us began thinking about them the same way as Fixer describes. While it's expensive to drop a 150+ point tank due to an immob result, it's not an unreasonable price to pay for the single force org slot. My curiosity is whether the artillery squadrons will get battery fire. If they do, triplets of bassies in battery formation will be just sick.

So, pondering the above info with the last info about infantry, (110pts for 25 guardsmen base cost), I'm so giddy I could burst.

Troops -450pts
3x35man Infantry platoon

FA -390pts
3xHellhound

Heavy -450pts
3xLeman Russ

Base price 1290pts. Now add special kit & HQ. Um, um, HELLO!?!?!?! Are you shitting me? 6 tanks & 110 infantry for under 1500pts? DAMN!!! What the hell do I get to do for 2000? 9 Russ w/ EA & SHB + squadron commander for 1815?!?!?! Zoinks yo!

Damn it feels good to be a Guardsman...

[Dragoon]

When didn't it feel good to be a guardsmen Armand? Im always giddy with glee as a Leman Russ' battle Cannon lands and kills about an entire squad.

oh yeah, every assault phase if the enemy was in your ranks.... but I digress

Yeah, it all looks pretty sweet, but im most excited by the variety we now have. Want a mobile force that you can basically put where you want on the map? we got that now with Valkeries, want to have a bunch of AP2 for heavy infantry? got it! need vehicle busting? Ap1 artillary and lots of melta options now avaliable. We now have more pinning for those Nob Bikers, and ordinance made to be basically Ork busters.

Want to play pretty much the same as before? great! now you can supposedly fire 2 shots at 24" instead of 1 if you pass leadership, you can field more troops, you have new squads open to get the same jobs done better, and Psykers got a boost. And to top it all off, fire both the battle cannon and Lascannon, you deserve it!

Ah, I must admit it is all sweet.

[LordAba]

(Some) HQ, troops, and elites on the BoLS.

Yeah: Sly Marbo + Inquisitor Lord + Callidus.

Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters get a lot out of this codex. Cheaper men means no more worrying about objectives with your expensive troops.

[Dragoon]

from BoLS

HEADQUARTERS
Chenkov
-Is a Special Character Infantry Platoon commander
- Can upgrade the conscript squad in his platoon to allow him to use the order ‘Send in the next wave’ for 75 points.
- ‘Send in the next wave’: The squad is immediately removed and next turn comes from the table edge (like reserves) at full starting strength.

Al'Rahem
Allows a unit to Fire in the shooting phase and still run.
Instakills on a roll of a 6 in combat

Mogul Kamir
He and his unit are subject to Rage.

Sly Marbo
Deploys similar to a Callidus Assassin. Has a Demo Charge and always wound on 2+'s in assault. He also retains his Sniper Pistol.

There is a Tank Commander upgrade, called Sergeant (?) Pasc, he gives the tank a BS of 4 and has an additional special ability against tanks and Monsterous Creatures, he costs around 50pts.

Order Rules:
- HQ Commanders must order first, then Platoon Commanders, then Squad commanders (if they can)
- Done at the start of the shooting phase. If a unit does any action in the shooting phase before orders are given, they cant benefit from any order
- Vox allows a unit to reroll failed Ld tests for orders
- Company Officer can give 2 orders and may order any squad with a vox or within 12”
- Platoon officers can give 1 order and may order any squad in their platoons with a vox or within 6”
- Some squad leaders can order their own squad (Veterans?)
- Unit must pass a Ld test, Double one means they understand and can take another Order, passed Ld means 1 order, failed Ld means no Order and Double 6 means no Order and unit does nothing this turn.
- A double 6 on a Ld test will prevent any further orders in that turn.

List of Orders:
-Tank!: +1 AP against vehicles (possibly Tank Hunter)
-Fire in ranks: All weapons may fire 1 extra shot (May only be Lasguns)
-Down!: A unit which goes to ground gains an additional +1 Cover Save bonus
- Move!: A unit rolls 2D6 when running and picks the highest
- (HQ Commander only): Bring it down! Twin links weapons shooting at tanks, MC’s etc.
- Rally: Instantly rallies a unit, can be used to lose the downside of using ‘Down!’

-Basic Company Commanders are around 50pts.

-Officers are NO LONGER Independent Characters.

-The new Advisors, Officer of the Fleet, Master of Ordnance and Astropath are around 30pts each, Sanctioned Pyskers are no longer Advisor upgrades.

-Bodyguards are around 15pts and allow you to allocate two wounds which would affect their officer against them instead.

-Medics now give the unit the Feel No Pain USR.

ELITES
Stormtroopers are 16pts each, you may pick one of three missions, Behind Enemy Lines which grants the USR Move Though Cover, Recon which grants Out Flank or Arial Assualt which gives them a reroll of scatter dice for deep strike and Valkyrie disembarks.

-Sanctioned Psykers - Have a number of powers:
- The Psykers may drop 1 Ld from an enemy unit for every sanctioned psyker alive at the time. - Soulstorm is range:36 SX AP:d6 Heavy1, Blast. Gains +1 Strength per psyker in the unit.
- Comes as a Sanctioned Psyker unit, of 4-9 Psykers and a Commissar Handler.
-The Pysker Chior starts at around 60pts for an Overseer and 4 Pyskers.
- On any perils of the warp the Commissar will shoot D3 Psykers.

TROOPS
-Infantry Platoons consist of, Command Section, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapons Squads, 0-3 Special Weapons Squads, 0-1 Conscript Platoons

-The 2-5 Infantry Squads can be marged into a single unit.

-Infantry Squad come in at 50pts, weapons options come in at 5pts for Mortars, 10pts for Heavy Bolters and Autocannon, 15pts for Missile Launchers, 20pts for Lascannon, 5pts for Grenade Launchers and Flamers, 10pts for Meltaguns and 15pts for Plasma Guns.

-Heavy Weapons Squads start at 60pts with 3 Mortars, and each weapon can be upgraded as follows, 5pts for Heavy Bolters and Autocannon, 10pts for Missile Launchers, 15pts for Lascannon.

-Special Weapons Squads are able to take 3 Demo Charges.

-Conscripts are Lasgun only units

-Commissars come in at about 35pts basic.

-Veterans Squads may take Carapace.

[SilverTabby]

For WitchHunters and Daemonhunters there will have to be a FAQ done to amend what they can take (and I'd imagine it will appear fairly swiftly to avoid the Codex getting horribly abused). For example - LordAba - WH can take 0-1 Leman Russ as a Heavy Support option. Not 1 Heavy Support choice's worth. There's a big difference. Until then, assuming things will just make things messy (and people unhappy if they go out and buy 3 LR only to be told they've got it all wrong).

I'm looking forwards to how this changes things, as my WH force has a large contingent of IG in it.

[Brother Wolf]

Expensive Stormtroopers, though. Sure, the AP rocks and the choice of USR is cool too, but a Sv4+ trooper costing the same as a Black Templar Initiate with his higher WS, S, T, & Sv?!?!?! Seems a bit much. Sad to see squads at 50, (originally spoken at 40, or 110 for 25 guys, (30+40+40), but it's still better than 60. Also interesting that heavy weapons are cheaper in the multiple squads than in the basic squads, (contrary to what GW has done in the past).

I damn near pissed myself reading about the commissar & perils fo the warp. Bwahahaha! ANd TAKE IT DOWN!? Love it. Is it May 2nd yet?

[basuatreya]

Kaserkin:
What do you mean by:
the same sculpts as the old one just with more bitz for veteran squads, conscripts, and penal legions.

Do you mean to say that the legs, torso and heads are the same but the arms hold different weapons and equipment?

Or do you mean the entire spruce is the same, but they'll add another spruce with different bits in them?

I realize that it's all a guess right now, but any informed guess is helpful in making a decision to buy another battleforce.

[moleytov]

seeing that little lot I am exceptionally glad I pack 3 full dire avenger squads with bladestorm.

Hurrah for guard love. Looks good and inovative and all a bit different from the other armies out there - which can only be a good thing.

[Grave Dancer]

Also interesting that heavy weapons are cheaper in the multiple squads than in the basic squads, (contrary to what GW has done in the past).

not really considering the squad comes with mortars as standard and the otehr heavy weapons are upgrades on top of that - so according to that costing, you pay the same

[Brother Wolf]

Well, true. But 50+20 = 70 for 10 guys & 1 Lascannon

60+15= 75 for 10 guys, 1 lascannon & 2 mortars, so 60+45=105 10 guys w/ 3 lascannons. Doing the math between tacs & devs shows the ratio is definately in the IG troopers favor, I think. It's subtle, but worth noting.

[Dragoon]

The other thing to note is that if these numbers are right, Autocannons recieved a nice drop in cost. It is currently 95 pts for 3 Autocannon squads, the new setup would be 75, a nice drop overall (although i think 5 may be wrong and its supposed to be 10 per cannon). Also, both Lascannons and Autocannons are down 5 pts when held in a squad. Its not huge, but it is points we never had before.

I dunno about you, but I carry an autocannon and Lascannon heavy army, Ill enjoy the freebies.

[Grave Dancer]

Well, true. But 50+20 = 70 for 10 guys & 1 Lascannon

60+15= 75 for 10 guys, 1 lascannon & 2 mortars, so 60+45=105 10 guys w/ 3 lascannons. Doing the math between tacs & devs shows the ratio is definately in the IG troopers favor, I think. It's subtle, but worth noting.
are you sure though that the heavy weapon squads are ten man squads though?

i would've thought they'd be squads of six, split into 3 HW teams of two guys.

[Sheep]

I'm still slightly peeved at the price of storm troopers. Just seems a bit steep even for what they do.

[Fixer]

Storm troopers may well be worth the cost with access to special weapons + orders from commanders.

Will have to see the final list before making judgement.

[Col Von Barring]

And it rocks!! Laid out in the same style as Space Marine codex. Exceedingly thick - loads of pages. Only stole a quick glance so won't tell whats in it. But those rumours appear to be correct. This is what we've been waiting for! Grab a copy as soon as you can.

This book is so thick with rules and troop types, it will require serious reading and discussion. There will be so many varieties of Guard army possible, our opponents won't know what tpo prepare for.

It might be a good idea for Brother Armand or another mod to prepare a Tactica Guard thread. It will be needed!

[Dragoon]

I just have to say, I don't know how much of a budget you all are on, but I must say the cost of the new Valkyrie is making me a sad guardsman. I know the price will be found cheaper online, but thats still a good $20 more than a Chimera in base cost, and this thing could be slated to be the new transport for the guard.

I guess it is a much more complex model, but I know when the Codex comes out im probably going to have to ignore that in favor of stuff thats more reasonable to get.

[warforger]

Actually, I'd say, with some converting, you can make a Eldar Wave Serpent into a Valkyrie.

[Escapehatch]

That's a LOT of converting warforger. The models are nothing alike :p

[spacewolflord]

Dragoon just save up your money for a little bit more before you start buying everything. The Valkyrie is going to cost $50 US when it comes out. Compair that to the $35 US that the Chimera is, it will not take you that long to save up for the new plastic Valkyrie.

[DelphicFist]

Ahem...Price Increase... (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-news-valkyrie-price-increase.html) :noway:

[kasrkinsquad]

@Basu: From what I have heard the new infantry squads will still use the current sculpts but will come with a ton of bitz. The bitz supposedly let you make Penal legion squads, veteran squads, and conscript squads.

Personally I don't think that is enough to make me want to pay 22 dollars for 10 Cadians so I am trying to stock up on current battleforces and 20man Cadians.

[Grave Dancer]

^^ i imagien a fair few people are going to do that - friend of mine is torn between buying some guard now or waiting till the codex and new releases drops as that may include discounts on the older battleforces and boxed sets

[Brother Wolf]

When a new release hits, older sets vanish from official channels and it's a toss up as to whether you can get older ones at a discount or premium on eBay or at independent stockists.

[Grave Dancer]

i thought they'd at least hold onto the old sets to try sell them off? at least that's what they do at an independent stocker i frequent. not so sure about the GW store here

[Brother Wolf]

As a rule, GW stops selling a given item months, MANY months, before it's replacement hits. It's part of their production schedule, they forecast based on sales of the older product, plan out the schedule accordingly, (sales, revenue goals, stock, etc), and launch when everything is in alignment. Not a perfect process, to be certain, but they've done ti enough times. If you want some of the old sets, you have better buy right away or wait and see what shows on eBay after May 2nd.

[kasrkinsquad]

^^Yeah I believe you are right. For example I normally get my stuff from macpac51 on ebay and he is out of Cadian battleforces. I think GW has stopped production of them. Only places I have seen some is a few on ebay and on the GW main site.

Tell your friend to start buying now before everything is gone.

[Nurizeko]

I'd probably buy the Valkyrie just for its own sake, fortunately I have a guard army of sorts (I know I can make a decent force, I've just never bothered to make an army list from them...).

Looking forward to the new dex, I do so love lots of fluffy padding.

[spacewolflord]

To the Price Increase of $8 US, so what? Just save up that much and me done with it. Don't go out to eat 2 times and you got that in the US. If $8 US will just brake the bank or you just can't save that much you got bigger problems then not getting minis.

[Brother Wolf]

Yeah, but when you're looking to buy 7 of them, that's a whole new Valk!!!

[kasrkinsquad]

^^^Just to add a bunch of bitz is not worth an 8 dollar increase in price.

Especially since guardmen are now supposed to be 40-50 for a regular squad.

Doesn't change the fact I will probably buy a few of those packs since I can make vet guardmen and vets are supposed to be a troop choice now.

[Nurizeko]

Especially since guardmen are now supposed to be 40-50 for a regular squad.

Models??.

You sure you aint confusing that with a conscript platoon?.

[Imperial Blade]

I find it somewhat ironic that GW is making IG armies even bigger, yet also making the miniatures twice as expensive so it's even more costly to collect them! Unless they make the 10 model guardsmen packs really cheap (for GW, that would be around $25), then I'm sure a lot of people are going to feel ripped off. I love IG and Warhammer 40k, but it's expensive enough without price increases :| .

[kasrkinsquad]

^^^They should be 22 dollars each from what I have heard. Granted I originally heard 25 dollars so who knows really.

@Nuri: I was talking about point value however I have heard we can have 50 man regular guardmen squads in the new codex.

[Dragoon]

its true, if regular guardsmen and stuff like the Valkerie are all getting boosted in price, it just hurts a bit at getting it all. I do understand your point spacewolflord, but you are assuming that im not operating off an already fairly lean budget, and thus any price increase will effect my decision making, even if $20 more in and of itself can be percieved as fairly trivial.

[The_Guardman]

i wonder how this new IG will play in tournament... Nut not on competitiveness. On time. I know from my experience that fielding 200 models isn't exactly a fast thing, and a tournament have a very limited time when it come to game's length...
Typically, it left an IG player at most the time to return everything into the boxes, burn smoke -fast!- a cigarette and start redeploy, and this in a 1500 actual game from my veteran perspective, where fielding more than 100 IG infantries is rare.
This new army (and some ork footslogger too!) seem to be the nightmare of an 1850+pt tournament organizer...

[Dragoon]

I can definately see where you are coming from The_Guardman, when I do my 100+ guardsmen lists for 1000-2000 pts it takes me about 15 minutes to do deployment between setting up squads properly, making sure their ideally placed, and then making sure all the units are correct weapon wise.

If the new army offers cheaper guardsmen (and better guardsmen by varients such as penal) and conscripts, alot of models could start populating our lists. However, it seems this Codex is pretty vehicle heavy all in all, and will mostly be offering new and fun choices for the vehicles at the cost of improved pt values, while infantry go down. Thus, id say infantry levels might stay the same, while effectiveness and vehicle costs go up to somewhat compensate.

[Brother Wolf]

With regards to pricing on the new infantry boxes, I think they are positioning things pretty well for themselves and for the new collector. The BForce boxes have always been a smokin' deal and the new format will basically be a troop selection, (31 bodies incl a variety of heavy & special weapons), in a box w/ a bonus FA. At new prices, this will add up to $129 worth of stuff for $90. The old box was valued at $125, (assuming $35 for the old cadian box), and you still needed to scrounge up some officers for the cmd squad.

I think it's safe to say that they are trying to make things good for starting AND expanding guard. Personally, I welcome the host of extra vet/conscript/penal bitz supposedly in the new box as well as the new plastic command. For those who mourn the loss of the Russ, (only available in the Cadian box, not the Catachan), consider that the Apoc Russ squadron boxes may see a return, (they still sell Bassy batteries), and $90 for 3 Russ vs $40 for 1 is pretty smokin.

Old Cadian Bforce $90 each for 26 bodies, 1 Russ & some terrain
x3 = $270
Cadian Officer Blister $15
Cadian HQ Box $35
3x Sentinel x$25
= HQ (5man), 2x Troops (80 bodies total w/ 9 HW), 3xHeavy, 3xFA
$395 (includes no plasma, 1 melta)

New Cadian Bforce $90 each for 31 bodies, 1 Sentinel
x3 = $270
Cadian HQ Box $25
Russ Squadron $90 (hopefully, keep those fingers crossed)
= HQ (5man), 3x Troops (93 bodies total w/ 9 HW), 3xHeavy, 3xFA
$385 (includes 4xEach sniper rifle, heavy flamer, plasma gun, melta gun, powerfist, power sword, plasma pistol)

This 79-piece kit contains enough components to enable you to assemble five specialist troopers, including: an Officer, a Medic, a Special Weapon Trooper, a Vox-caster and a Guardsman with Company Banner. The squad can be armed with a choice of weapons including: a sniper rifle, a heavy flamer, a plasma gun, a grenade launcher, a flamer, a melta gun, a powerfist, a chainsword, a power sword, a plasma pistol, a bolt pistol and a laspistol. Also included are two different Company Banners, nine different guardsman heads and additional pieces to allow you to customise the rest of your Imperial Guard squads.
So already you're up 13 bodies, (very important for Guard), an another Troop choice (and if they come through on the Apoc Russ squadron you save $10, otherwise you're paying $415 total instead). As always, don't forget Neal at TWS or the guys at Chaos Mail Order or Maelstrom in the UK copping the 15-25% discounts on this.

The overall cost isn't really changing, but we stand to gain so very much more with the way it's laid out now.