What is Warhammer 40,000?

[M37]

Ok So Relic is developing a game based on a regonized boardgame. Anyone mind providing the fourm with a little backstory, summarization of what's going on in the 40K Universe? Who are the good guys ect...
I'm asking becuse I'm prety sure I'm not the only person scaching his head over this.

[ionfish]

Official Warhammer 40,000 website (http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/warhammer40k.htm)

[Inquisitor]

Originally posted by M37
Ok So Relic is developing a game based on a regonized boardgame. Anyone mind providing the fourm with a little backstory, summarization of what's going on in the 40K Universe? Who are the good guys ect...
I'm asking becuse I'm prety sure I'm not the only person scaching his head over this.

Okay then, since you asked :P What follows is a lengthy but greatly simplified overview for those who don't have time to read all the stuff on the official website (and there is a lot.)

(All you 40K fans don't get mad if I over-simplify the theme of the different armies, but it's probably the best way to quickly understand them.)

_________________________________________________

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR!

Overview
The 40K universe is set, as you may have already figured out, 40,000 years into the future. And it is a dark and bleak future as well. Mankind has stretched a vast empire across the galaxy, an empire that is constantly plagued on all sides by powerful aliens, demonic threats, and evil gods.

Good And Bad Guys?
Well, as with both sides of a war, it depends on your point of view. In general, the human race in Warhammer 40,000 is often harsh, ruthless, and cruel. The same can be said of the rest of the races in the galaxy, but the human Imperium is especially over-zealous and xenophobic. It is very beaurocratic, almost communistic, and does what it has to do to survive in a universe that is dangerous and deadly.

Still, there is a line you can draw between the "good" and the "bad" factions in terms of the game.

Good:
Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Sisters Of Battle
Eldar
Tau

Bad:
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Orcs
Tyranids
Necrons

Factions
Though the 40K universe has grown greatly in scope and depth since its inception, it may be easiest to think of the setting as it was originally intended: Fantasy races in a sci-fi setting. So, I'll try to draw parallels to fantasy examples when describing some of these factions--basically these are the armies you can choose from before you plan to collect, paint, and play.

Space Marines--
Elite humans shock troops, genetically bred with the best armor and weaponry available to humans. Quite formidable. They can be led by force commanders, Chaplains devoted to the God-Emperor, or even powerful Psyker Librarians. Think of them as knights.

Imperial Guard--
The rank and file human soldiers. Very similar in appearance to today's military, with an emphasis on armor and sheer numbers. They have the widest range of tanks and can specialize in many areas of combat.

Sisters Of Battle--
Nuns with guns. Seriously. They are devoted to the God-Emperor, a human with powerful psyker powers risen to deity status but entombed within the Golden Throne on Terra where he has been for thousands of years. He is worshipped by mankind, and the structure of religion in the Imperium can be compared to Catholicism in the middle ages.

Eldar--
Elves in Space. They are a dying race, a mere shadow of their former selves. Wise, quick, snooty, they look down upon the barbaric "mon-keigh" (Eldar word for humans.) Eldar Vehicles are hover-based, unlike the ungraceful tracked vehicles of the humans. They also have highly skilled psykers that make human psykers pale in comparison.

Tau--
A highly advanced alien race that focuses on technology. A young race, the Tau are perhaps the least grim of all the other races. For your anima/manga fans, think mecha.

Chaos Space Marines--
Evil versions of Space Marines, they have betrayed the God-Emperor and worship the Chaos Gods, can summon daemons and use evil magic. Very. Bad. Dudes.

Dark Eldar--
Dark Elves in Space, bloodthirsty and cruel. A bit like vikings raiders I suppose, quick and deadly. Also, it seems like they're all sadomasochists.

Orcs--
Orcs in spa--well, you get the idea. Not too bright, but they are tough and resilient. And there are a lot of them. Green tide!

Tyranids--
Think of the bugs from the Starship Troopers movie. That's them, pretty much. Swarms and swarms of bugs, with scary big bugs leading them.

Necrons--
Ancient evil race of advanced androids. They have awakened from their millennia long sleep and seek to destroy all life. Think terminators.

There are also other "advanced" armies to choose from with their own specialized rules.

[Dimension]

in addition to the above, it can be said that there are no steady alliances between any factions(except space marines, imp guards and the sisters), in some instances (orcs, chaos space marines) there is also in-fighting.

Dark Eldar are essentially Eldar that are corrupted by the Chaos gods. THESE ARE: The four great Chaos gods are named as follows. The first and greatest of all is Khorne, the Blood God, who is also known as the Lord of Skulls. Second is Tzeentch, the Changer of the Ways, called by some the Great Sorcerer. Next is Nurgle, the Lord of Decay, who is also the Master of Plague and Pestilence. Nurgle is the most resplendently foul of all the Chaos gods. Last of all is the youthful Slaanesh, the handsome Prince of Chaos, seductive and perverse in his supernatural favours.
the way the dark eldar practice their cruelties is very reminiscent of Slaneesh, but they don't worship him. for that reason he is very pissed at them and every dark eldar that dies will have his soul tormented by slaneesh in ways beyond anyones imagination. no need to mention the dark eldar are very afraid of dying for that reason ;)

Eldar are a bit like the vaygr, as they seek to channel their natural agression into a so called "aspect", meaning they specialize in say, close combat, and will practice in nothing else. read: very specialized, unlike the space marines for instance. as a side mention, they pray to a single god of war, named Khain (who is in fact one and the same as the Chaos god Khorne).

The Tau are the only non-xenophobic race in the warhammer 40K universe. they are pretty idealistic, even somewhat naiive, seeking power through unity. their army consists both of Tau, and of Kroot, a somewhat primitve and savage race of tribal humanoids. the kroot are an example of the Tau integrating other races into their faction. they seek to unite the whole universe under one rule(for everyones good. they are naiive after all ;)

[sajuukar]

So... uh... what do the women and children do?

And another question... the title says "Dawn of War"... what does that mean?

[Inquisitor]

Originally posted by Silver Quasar
So... uh... what do the women and children do?

They try not to die horribly.

Seriously, as far as the humans are concerned, most people do their best to lead normal lives. They have jobs, go to school, raise children, pay the bills. Some worlds are relatively safe. But the threat of war, the incursions of Chaos, the dangers of alien attack, it's ever-present. Some worlds have evolved cultures that focus on warfare, right down to camo-style fashion for men, women, and children. And also, some worlds are more advanced than others. There are feral and feudal worlds that are part of the Imperium, but all are aware of the dangers of the Enemy, which may come to them in one form or another.

The universe in Warhammer 40K is horrid, gothic, frightening. Nightmares come to life, daemons of the Warp and terrible evils that can drive most mortal minds insane with but a single glance are all a fact of life.

The 40K tagline is "IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR." That pretty much sums it up.

[M37]

Ion: You should make this a sticky so the unitiated don't keep asking this agian.

[ionfish]

Thread docked and renamed for clarity's sake.

[The Collector]

I thought women could join the Warrior aspect as well. It seems the Eldar have no "Aspect" (job field) for slackers...except maybe Rangers. Rangers just run around the galaxy like Indiana Jones.

We won't have to go into history of WH40k...it can be found all over the net. Just look. Really, really hard.

The Humans may be called "The Empire". I dont remember how big it was...maybe a fourth or 2/5ths of the galaxy?

The Humans have a Administratum that does paperwork stuff. They use a "Inquisition" to look for psykers (psychic power people...they are deemed dangerous because of posession). Inquisition also functions as a KGB of sorts. They have a force of exorcists to defeat Warp Daemons, which draw their energy from "the warp"...which is also psychic energy, and the means of FTL travel used. Since the Warp has Daemons in it, and other stuff, travel is random, uncertain, and dangerous. Ships get "lost in the warp" and people inside die or worse stuff. Ships and hulks that go in, come out at odd moments in time. Time seems to stop in the warp: you go in, time freezes, you come out years later or something.

They treat Warp like navigating stormy oceans. There are references to warp eddies and other stuff. As such, humankind is fragmented if they use this uncertain, and strangely random warp for communications and travel.

In any case, onwards with the humans.

Beyond the Inquisition, w/ secret police stuff and counter-daemon forces, is the Officio Assassinorium. Kids taken and trained to kill in a different way, sorted into different schools which train a different way to kill. The one most likely to be ever seen in this game will be the Vindicare, which is like a sniper, with a big, big, gun.

Other forces include Imperial Guard, the Sisters of Battle, Space Marines. Imperial Guard is stand-off volume of fire, lots of tanks. Space Marines is almost the same, smaller forces, equally devastating. Sisters of Battle have a odd penchant for fire, and are more "close quarters" then the other sides.

There's also the Adeptus Mechanicus. They worship machines. They build giant mech thingies called Titans, which pretty much own everything.

Might as well stop there.

[Vijil]

More info:

The warhammer 40k universe is excellent in the way it merges the spiritual and sci fi.

In the 40 universe, there is a sort of alternate dimension called the Warp. This is used in the traditional sci fi sense for faster interstellar travel by spacecraft, but it is much more than that. Within the warp lies the spiritual realm, a place in which every human has a part of themselves, like a soul. This interaction with warp space paves the way for psychic visions, and also means that in order to use the warp for travel one must have a strong psychic on board to navigate around warp storms, storms of metaphysical energy.

This is where chaos comes in, the all corrupting evil power in the universe. The chaos gods were created by the Eldar, a strongly psychic race with strong beacons in the warp. The race gave themselves over to their primal desires, and became decadent beyond anything we could think of. The strength and the hate of their emotions during this time was so powerful that their warp souls became inflamed by it, and ultimately the sheer evil of their behaviour broke off from their warp selves and became a seperate entity unto itself. Thus, the four gods of Chaos were born. Only the psychic strength of the human Emperor pretects humanity from being corrupted by this force.

The eldar, realising what they had done, immediately set about trying to get rid of the dark gods, but their were two different ideals on how to do this. The dark Eldar are attempting to please the gods through total decadence and sheer evil, hoping their actions will appease the gods lust for death and reduce their power.

The Eldar, on the other hand, are attempting to starve the chaos gods of strength by denying them the source of their power: the psychic energy given off by death and hate. Needless to say, these two groups have opposing goals and are none too fond of one another.

The chaos gods do not only affect eldar. Humanity can be corrupted by it as well. Chaos SPace marines used to be good, but turned against the emperor when the became corrupted during the Horus Heresy, which is another long story.

Another interesting thing: humanity uses archaic technology they have forgotten how to make. Their religious tech priests can maintain the tech, but they dont really know how it works. A computer AI for this reason is reffered to as a "machine spirit" and so on.

There is so much to this universe its mind boggling, but those are some of the basics.

Ill post some more fluff about other races when I feel like it.

[thesamonthemoon]

I think this info belongs here:

Originaly Posted by greynite1

Space Marines The headliners of the game. These are genetically enhanced warriors in huge suits of Power armor which are trained to an inhuman standard. Created and perfected by the Emperor himself using his own genetic material these Troops once formed the Vanguard of the Legions of the Imperium. They are stronger, Faster, Smarter and more well equipped then almost any fighting force in the Galaxy. They are the ultimate Elite strike force capable of performing any battlefield task. The Space Marines are broken up into Chapters of 1000 fighting marines and support staff. The Generic Space marine armies are capable of much but some of the more Specialized Space Marine Chapters (Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Iron Hands) are capable of EVEN MORE!!. There is a very very good reason why they are broken up into small chapters as each chapter once was a Full legion.

The Imperial Guard The Normal Human Military might of the Imperium. This Monolithic organization are all the frontliners or humanity. The Imperial guard number in the untold 100s of Billions and are stretched all across the Galaxy. They are the most diversified military organization in the history of the galaxy. the Divisions and Regiments of the Imperial guard are humanities primary line of defense against the multitude of vicious monsters, Aliens and Daemons which threaten it from without and within.

The Eldar A Strange and ANCIENT Race of Aliens whom once ruled over the universe. They unfortunately fell victim to their own weaknesses and excesses and their empire fell with cataclysmic results that the universe is still feeling to this very day. They use incredible technology so advanced that they make things seem like magic. Their race is highly psychic as well and their people are led by the farseers whom are capable of seeing the skeins of fate. Their race is in twilight however and the Eldar struggle everyday to hang onto what they have left. They look upon other races as ignorant and disgusting savages and treat them a portion of the time. This doesn't mean they can't be beaten the sweaty human Apes have bested and fought by the side of the Eldar when the Danger is too great to ignore. They understand much in the Universe but are primarily concerned with the survival of their own race and they will use and manipulate the other races even to the point of starting great wars between them to ensure their own survival.

The Tau A brand spankin new Race of Aliens to the game of Warhammer 40k introduced with 3rd edition. They are a very young and idealistic Race who have taken their first tentative steps into a violent and uncaring universe. They believe the universe is theirs for the taking until they meet up with the other races. The Tau are highly technologically advanced compared to the Imperium and their weapons are powerful and devastating however the Tau are comparatively physically weak and shun Close combat.

The Orks Yes Orks, A Galaxy spanning Race of green barbaric creatures who have probably been in existance at least as long as the Eldar. Their culture and ideas are purely based on violence and war. Orks are brutal close combat fighters who use their seemingly crude technology to travel between the stars. They are actually a form of sentient Fungus and they breed like it too. Their spores are spread through space and when they land on a planet they become like a virus they breed at a Frightening pace and if their are enough of them and Great and Powerful Ork can unite the Tribes they create whats known in the Imperium as a WAAGHH which is basically a Crusade of War in which unbelievably massive hordes and hordes of Orks will attack a Planet and overwhelm it in a horrific Green tide of Hacking Slashing and Shooting.

CHAOS Chaos is very difficult to explain. It is basically entropy but it also has its own dimension. It is its own force and can even become sentient. It can reach out and touch and corrupt the minds of those in our universe into worshipping it. The best way to think of the Chaos Dimension is HELL. That in and off itself does not cover everything. It is a dimension of unlimited possibilities where everything we do and feel is given form. In the Game the actions of Mortals Created the forms of the CHAOS GODS. Known as Tzeentch: The Changer of Ways, Lord of Deception, Khorne: The God of War and Violence, Slannesh the God of Pleasure and Excess, Nurgle: The god of corruption, Disease and Decay. The problem is these gods reach out into our universe and affect the lives of every one. Mortals who discover these divinely powerful beings worship them and raise great armies to them and make war on the Mortal races. Most major events in the Warhammer 40k universe involve Chaos Heavily. The Creation of the God Slanneesh was a direct Result of the Downfall and excesses of the Eldar. The Chaos Gods Corrupted an entire half of the Imperiums Forces and created the War to almost end all wars known as the HORUS HERESY. This war single handedly almost destroyed the entire Galaxy. This incident gave birth to the Most feared army in the world, The Chaos Space Marines. Existing much like their loyalist "Good" brothers the Chaos Space Marines are dedicated to different Chaos Gods or even to Chaos as a whole Entity. Chapters like the World Eaters, the Death Guard, the Emperors Children and the Nightlords have put terror into the hearts of the mortals in the Galaxy for over 10,0000 years now. The Recent GW Campaign the EYE OF TERROR was the Chaos Space Marines emerging from their forced Exile in mass in the great 13th Black Crusade to try and Destroy the fortress world of Cadia and Swarm out to the rest of the galaxy. They are the Primary foes of everybody.

Necrons This is a truly ancient Race of Evil beings who even predate the Eldar. They were once living beings who in their bitterness, fear and anger over death gave their mortal bodies up to the Star Gods. Great creatures of energy who lived amoung the stars millions of years ago. (And recently do again) The Necrons became the mindless automaton legions of the Stargods once they took human form and ravaged and scoured the galaxy destroying and enslaving every living thing they came across at the behest of the Star gods. They almost extinguished all life in the galaxy till a War broke out amoungst the Race of Star gods and they almost wiped each other out to a man. The few beings who were left (4 in fact) looked over a devesated universe and were bored. They went into a Torpor to await a time when the universe had recovered and they could indulge their vile pleasures for death fear and despair aknew. Now it is the 41st millenium and the universe is teeming with Life and the Star Gods have begun to Awake and so have the Necrons.

Tyranids A Race of Bioorganic creatures which has swept in monstrous hive fleets from the Eastern Fringe of the Galaxy. This race is the ultimate answer of Evolution they are capable of matching any technological feet made so far through Bio organics. They create races of creatures for specific tasks. This race of Galactic Locusts sweeps onto a Planet in a maddening Wave of Teeth, Flesh and Talons and devours everything down to the Bed rock. Leaving nothing but a barren Rock behind. They are mindless and linked together by a massive hive mind which makes them all but fearless and almost impossible to stop short of mowing every single one of them down.

[Darkness]

Little is known about the roots of the tyranids, i think i saw somewhere they were from the necron time but in a distant part of the galaxy, the force you see now is evolution based upon consumption of millions of worlds and races. but some say they are only a small scouting force for the main fleet of nids, and dont forget that their leaders have very powerful psyches too.
and look at the pics of the leaders, they are Very much alien Queen like, yall seen those movies right? pure coolness

yes, they are my favourite :)

[Kained]

Originally posted by The Collector
The Humans may be called "The Empire". I dont remember how big it was...maybe a fourth or 2/5ths of the galaxy?
Stellar empires cannot really be reckoned in terms of the spatial areas they occupy, but only in terms of the star systems under their control. The Imperium is the largest such empire in the galaxy. The million or more worlds that lie under its dominion are spread throughout the entire galaxy with the exception of the Eastern Fringe. It extends to the limits of the Astronomican, the beacon which its fleets rely on for navigation. Of course the Imperium does not control all of the star systems within this vast area, nor even the majority of the inhabited systems within its borders. The, galaxy also contains many alien races ruling smaller empires of their own.

The Imperium is ruled from Old Earth. It is governed by a vast bureaucracy known as the Adeptus Terra sometimes referred to simply as The Priesthood. The Adeptus Terra governs the Imperium in the name of the Emperor of Humanity, the Undying Master of Mankind.

- From the 40k background.

May i also suggest a site called Portent.net (http://www.portent.net) it is one of the largest 40k fan sites around and the forum is an excellent places for both beginner and experienced player to learn more about the 40k universe.

[Dimension]

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/wfrp/religion_chaos_gods.shtml

some good info on tha chaos gods, albeit in reference to the regular Warhammer (think middle-ages). still gives you a good idea what they're about.

also, i thought the demise of the eldar didn't create all chaos gods but only slannesh? (can someone clear up how he is written btw, i've seen Slannesh, Slaneesh and Slaanesh so far)

[The Collector]

Critical Hit (http://criticalhit.co.uk/) looks at Warhammer from a RPGer's standpoint. Might be useful.

If you really cared, there's lots of resources out on the net about it: not just GW.

[Shadione]

Originally posted by The Collector
I thought women could join the Warrior aspect as well. It seems the Eldar have no "Aspect" (job field) for slackers...except maybe Rangers. Rangers just run around the galaxy like Indiana Jones.

Female Eldar who follow aspects gravitate towards the Howling Banshee Aspect, the only all female Aspect in the Eldar race. The Banshee is a harbinger of war and death to the Eldar. The Banshee aspect are close combat specialists who strike terror in their enemies with their terrifying Banshee Howl.

Every Eldar follows a path, this keeps their mind from straying, critical, as a wandering mind for a race that is so latently psychic invites attention from daemonic entities of the Warp. Not all paths are combat-related, somebody has to bake bread and stuff. :) In times of war the non-combat paths make up the Guardians, the base troop for the Eldar. Their race is too few in numbers, and dwindling every year, for everyone to not do their part. For this reason, guardian squads are also made up of both men and women.

[Shadione]

Originally posted by Vijil
A computer AI for this reason is reffered to as a "machine spirit" and so on.

A nit-picky detail, as this statement is basically true, but there are actually no computer AI's in the Imperium's technology. All such things were destroyed after the Dark Age of Technology, as mankinds superstitions prevent them from trusting in such things. For any kind of cognitive thinking or other functions a computer might perform the Imperium uses Servitors. Servitors are basically humans, usually convicted of some kind of crime be it real or imagined, who are lobotimized and turned into cyborgs of sorts.

The Machine Spirit is literally supposed to be the soul of a machine, and is not based on the existence of an AI. Followers of the machine cult believe all machines have a spirit that can be satiated or angered. Forget to do the Sacred Rights of Changing Oil on your truck long enough and you'll anger it to the point that it will fuse its parts together and stop functioning to show its displeasure. Same result as in our reality, but different thought process on how you get there. :)

[Dimension]

Did some research on the web and critical hit had some very interesting info on the emperor and the way he interacted with the universe read all about it here (http://criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/emperor.shtml)

following is are a few excerpts explaining how the chaos gods came to be.

The warp is an alternate universe composed entirely of psychic energy generated by the thoughts, emotions and intellectual activity of living beings.

The natural energies of the warp was harmonious but the souls of men were troubled, obsessive, guilt ridden, or imperfect. These negative energies congregated together in the warp, drawn to each other by mutual attraction, until they formed troublesome spots of disharmony, rather like a tumour in an animal. These disharmonious forces eventually became the Chaos Powers, the psychic entities we now face today.

Even before they became fully conscious the Chaos Powers recognised the Emperor as their greatest enemy. Khorne was the first to wake fully, and an era of wars and conflict raged across the globe. Tzeentch was the next, and nations and politics grew to adulthood with all their implicit intrigues and double-dealings. Nurgle was the third to awake and plagues swept across continents claiming many souls for the Lord of Decay. By the end of the Middle Ages all three of these Chaos Powers had awoken to full consciousness. The fourth Power, Slaanesh, still slumbered and his rise coincided with the Fall of the Eldar.

note that "the emperor was born in the region of Earth known as Central Anatolia (a region of Turkey) in the eighth millennium BC", so the conflicts mentioned above are actually relating to history known today, such as the crusades and the pest.

[Rincewind]

Actually, there is no limitations on any of the Eldar Aspects. A male Eldar may take up the female Way of the Banshee. He simply "plays" the female Banshee on the battlefield.

Before any idiotic pre-teens make any stupid comments on that, no, they are not homosexual or transvestite.

Shadione: Actually, the reason Humans do not use AI's is because the AI's turned on Humanity at the end of the Dark Age of Technology. There was a war between the Golden Men (Advanced Humans) and Iron Men (robots). The Golden Men managed to destroy the Iron Men, but at the cost of their civilization. They became the Stone Men, the current Xenophobic and superstitious Humanity. This info can actually be found in the 3rd Edition Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, near the end.

Also, there are AI's in excistance. The Machine Spirits are for all intents and purposes Artificial Intelligences. The way the Adeptus Mechanicus percieves them doesn't really change the "objective reality" of the Spirits. Some, like the computer of a Land Raider tank, are no more intelligent than a dog. They can perform follow rudimentary instructions like "shoot that" or "move there".

Others, like the enormous Machine Spirits inhibiting Titans, are self-aware. They are intelligent, can process strategic information and even make disicions in the heat of battle.

There was an old story related to the Space Marine game (predecessor to Epic) where a group of Warlord's refused to retreat, even though their Princeps' tried to make them move. All Titans are imprinted with the instincts and personality of a predatory animal, in the case of Warlords, grizzly bears.

[Tyryt]

Originally posted by Rincewind
Shadione: Actually, the reason Humans do not use AI's is because the AI's turned on Humanity at the end of the Dark Age of Technology. There was a war between the Golden Men (Advanced Humans) and Iron Men (robots). The Golden Men managed to destroy the Iron Men, but at the cost of their civilization. They became the Stone Men, the current Xenophobic and superstitious Humanity. This info can actually be found in the 3rd Edition Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, near the end.

For another interesting little tidbit of info, looking through the old RT book, There are quotes from Dune and Star Trek, and from those pretty much implying that it's all the same universe.

It does tie in as well, to an extent, Star Trek (Golden age, humanity expanding through the galaxy) -> Dune (Just at the end of the great war against the machines, introduction of traveling via "The Warp" instead of "at warp speed", navigators, spice, etc.) -> 40K.

There are also some other more obscure refferences as well.

[Shadione]

Originally posted by Rincewind
Shadione: Actually, the reason Humans do not use AI's is because the AI's turned on Humanity at the end of the Dark Age of Technology.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, just didn't want to get too far into the history or the reasons.

Originally posted by Rincewind
Also, there are AI's in excistance. The Machine Spirits are for all intents and purposes Artificial Intelligences. The way the Adeptus Mechanicus percieves them doesn't really change the "objective reality" of the Spirits. Some, like the computer of a Land Raider tank, are no more intelligent than a dog. They can perform follow rudimentary instructions like "shoot that" or "move there".

Others, like the enormous Machine Spirits inhibiting Titans, are self-aware. They are intelligent, can process strategic information and even make disicions in the heat of battle.

Now you have a debate on your hands. GW loves to revise history in later editions. Seems to me they're moving more towards a no AI interpretation now, with any kind of intelligence coming from individual or group servitors, but who knows. The ambiguity is what sometimes makes it interesting. Generally, I don't take anything pre-dating the current edition to be 'true', as each edition re-works fiction as much as the game mechanics.

[Beelzebuddy]

Actually, the reason Humans do not use AI's is because the AI's turned on Humanity at the end of the Dark Age of Technology. There was a war between the Golden Men (Advanced Humans) and Iron Men (robots). The Golden Men managed to destroy the Iron Men, but at the cost of their civilization. They became the Stone Men, the current Xenophobic and superstitious Humanity.For some reason this bring up bits of greek mythology from the dregs of my mind. I recall reading a legend about this... something about a couple who were the last of the Golden Race told by the gods to toss stones behind them, that then grew into men - the Stone Race. Could be GW's just ripping off ancient history and packaging it as original ideas. Wouldn't be the first time a company did that.

[The Collector]

GW does do that: they just do it extremely well, and are in turn, ripped off of.

It's just repacking some old ideas and adding some new stuff into the brew. Fluff matters not. Just victory!

[Kained]

Check this out for a full background discussion and the actual story.

Golden, Stone and Iron Men (http://forums.portent.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134308509)

The Iron Men were the AI's in a similar way to the Animatrix background. That's why the Imperium generally finds the idea of AI's abhorrent, preferring to use lobotimised Servitors.

Computers are widely used but these are generally defined as logic engines. Suggesting, that although they may be powerful, they lack cognitive ability

Of course whats live in the guarded vaults of the Adeptus Mechanicus is a mystery for all but the Lords of Mars.

[The Collector]

I remember seeing stuff about the Adeptus Mechanicus having robots: out until the Horus Heresy. They stopped afterwards I think, but probably still have them.

[Adalpheus]

You mean the Titan Legions? They were and still are built in the Imperium.

[RedDevil]

Just thought that I would throw this out as well. Another reason, that GW has hinted at about, for why the Imperium of Man doesn't use real AI's, is that they can actually be taken over/possessed by chaos.

On that note, deamons can actually inhabbit a vehicle as well, essentially using it like a body. Sometimes even warping them to the point where tanks grow arms, scythes for close combat, and can heal themselves. Scary stuff.

Titans are not immune to this as well, as many Titan legions of old turned traitor along with legions of Imperial gaurd, and the Chaos Space marines during the Horus Haresy. A Choas Titan is trully a terrify site as it looks almost as if alive, with the bodies and skulls of sacrifices fused with the huge body, screaming as if still alive. Their AI has become so warped that they act more as savage, rabid, animal, sometimes thrashing out at their own troops just to sait their bloodlust.

[The Collector]

Adalpheus, I wasn't referring to Titans. Real robots. Critical Hit makes reference to the "Legio Cybernetica" or something that sounds like it.

[IWAssassin]

Generally speaking MODERN GW Fluff [within the past year] actually more implies that all AIs the Imperium uses are not AIs at all, but a living part of the C'Tan Void Dragon, known to the Adeptus Mechanicus as the Machine God. Of course the Tech Priests are so self centered, protective, and downright insane that they dont realise that he's a CTan and the rest of the Imperium has no way of finding out.

Of course then there are those of us who see the C'Tan fluff as simply a bunch of garbage (:

[Adalpheus]

Oh right. The robots are still used and produced on Mars and the Forge Worlds. They are attached to forces along with a priest-guy to perform the "rites of pushing the on-button" then monitors their progress. They also have a habit of recovering every single one that gets destroyed for spare parts. The blueprints are still kept in the Machine-God Altar on Mars.

[Silmaril]

Originally posted by Darkness
Little is known about the roots of the tyranids, i think i saw somewhere they were from the necron time but in a distant part of the galaxy, the force you see now is evolution based upon consumption of millions of worlds and races. but some say they are only a small scouting force for the main fleet of nids, and dont forget that their leaders have very powerful psyches too.
and look at the pics of the leaders, they are Very much alien Queen like, yall seen those movies right? pure coolness

yes, they are my favourite :)


I know this is going back in the thread a bit, but originally the Tyranids were an intergalactic race. The theory was that they had devoured their original galaxy, and had crossed the vast intergalactic void. Genestealers were the scouts. Appearing aboard space hulks, and "breeding" with humans to form the Hyprids. (Strong Psykic powers prevented the hybrids from being killed) Often They formed cults, and were destroyed as heretics.


Then came the First Hivefleet - Behemoth. The first world they completey ravaged was a planet called Tyran (if memory serves). Eventually the hivefleet was discovered, an Ultramarine detachment was sent, and completely wiped out (thus the Genestrealers on their Banners) Eventually (this is where my memory gets hazy) the whole chapter, and then some, destoryed the hivefleet.

But it turned out it was just the first part of it, as the much larger Hivefleet Kraken appeared.



If anyone can clarify, and/or correct please do. That was the story at the time they released the Tyranid Codex, but that was a good few years ago, and I'd love to know what the current background is.

[No Surrender]

I thought one of the Cadian Imperial Guard Regiments decimated Hive Fleet Behemoth (See Guard Codex) The Space Marines get all the glory.

Note About the Emperor: The Emperor was the person who created the Space Marine Legions and set out on the Great Crusade to reconquer all the Human Colonies separated by Warp Storms. He created the Primarchs, super humans from which the Space Marines were created. There were around 10 Primarchs (I think) Each of them were given a Space Marine Legion and set off to conquer more worlds. Then, the Emperor's most trusted and skilled Primarchs, Horus, turned against him along with 1/2 the Space Marine Legions. A bloody period of Civil War known as the Horus Herecy followed. The Chaos Legions were on the verge of breaching the defenses of Ancient Terra (Earth) before the Emperor slew the tratorous war master in single combat. The Emperor himself was mortally wounded in the proccess and the Golden Throne was constructed to keep him alive. Now the Emperor sits imobile ontop the golden throne and guides the Imperiums war fleets and ships throught the Warp.

[Nitrax]

On Hive fleet Behemoth and the Tyranids.

I've forgotten the name of the book but it's the rule book you got for the Tyranids for the old Epic system. Now my computers really messed up and I'm doing this from memory so I will try to be as breif as possible.

Apart from the disaperence of several scouting missions on the eastern rim the first real contact with the tyranids was at the planet Tyran. It served as a staging post for exploration missions and had about 4000 personel. Behemoth was the name given to the first hivefleet. It operated in two seperate waves, leap frogging over each other. There are more details but suffice it to say that Tyrans commander, after a brush with the Tyranid fleet realised that they were hostile but Tyran was two small to survive(it did have laser defence silos about 5 I think and 5 in system patrol craft) and so during a lull in the fighting the commander ordered all there data stroed onto computer and bured in the core of the planet. Inquisitor Krytman was the first to find this, on a planet that could barly be identified aas Tyran. He proceded to warn the imperium and by this time more and more tyranids were being spotted, a survivor was rescued from the ship Hammer of Foes (Not sure) and eventually Kryptman diduced that the tyranids would hit the world of Ultimar soon. (The homeworld of the Ultramarines.) The entire chapter was recalled and reinforcements were sent, including a battlefleet from one of the main fleet bases lead by Admiral Rath and the Emperor Class Battleship Dominix Astra. Anyway when the tyranids attacked Ultimar and Calgar (again not sure) the commander of the ultrmarines used a hammer and anvil stratagy with his fleet and the planet, some tyranids landed on the planet but most of the ships were either destroid or fled.

The marine ships pursuid and the Tyrandis ran straight into the arriving imperial fleet under the command of Rath and anihlated. As the marine and imperial lfeet turned back the second turanid fleet arrived behind them. The marines turned back to the planet, admiral rath headed for Circi, a gas giant which was aparantly defendable.

The tyranids split, the larger part heading for rath, the smaller following teh marines. The imperal fleet was almost defeated but the Domonix Astra overloaded it's own warp engins and ripped the heart out of the tyranid fleet. The tyranids that followed the marines were destoid by the planetary defences. On the planet the northern polar fortress had been overun with the loss of the entire 1st company of marines, in the south some pockets still held out. Without the guidance of teh hive fleet though the tyranids were eventually defeated. There were regiments of the Planitary defence auxilary, aswell as a titan legion, but individual guard regiments arn't mentioned. And there you go, the rough story of hivefleet behemoth. Sorry about all the spelling mistakes, but my computers so mashed that I don't even get to see the text i'm writing until a minute after i finish writing it.

And finally, Kraken turned up about 200 years later, got mashed by the Iyadin Eldar, but survived, then Leviathen turned up below it not long after. And thats all I can rememeber/and type at the moment.

[Rincewind]

And finally, Kraken turned up about 200 years later, got mashed by the Iyadin Eldar, but survived, then Leviathen turned up below it not long after. And thats all I can rememeber/and type at the moment.

Actually, it was the other way around. One of the Kraken sub-fleets almost destroyed the Iaynden Craftworld, with around 80% of the population dead. Hive Fleet Kraken is still in the Eastern Fringes, messing the place up.

Hive Fleet Leviathan appeared near the center of the galaxy, coming "up" in regards to the galactic plane.

The Adeptus Mechanicus doesn't "officially" use Robots anymore. That is old background (or fluff, as it is usually known). Anything that has not been re-published after the 3rd edition of the game was published is not valid. They practically changed the entire history.

No Surrender: 20 Primarchs.

[Captain Stern]

The Adeptus Mechanicus doesn't "officially" use Robots anymore. That is old background (or fluff, as it is usually known). Anything that has not been re-published after the 3rd edition of the game was published is not valid. They practically changed the entire history.

Those flying skulls (I don't know how their english name is) are a kind of robot, aren't they?

[The Collector]

Servo-skulls? A reference to them exists on Critical Hit, but with insufficient canon background reference. Once I find it I'll cite it.

[Kained]

Yeah it's a Servo Skull. It contain a lobotomised human brain just like other Servitors.

[Captain Stern]

Ah, there's a brain inside? I thought they would only use the skull of an imperial hero and put a motor inside.

[ObsceneName]

none of the hivefleets have been completey destroyed except behemoth which was never fully destroy but became tiny splinter fleets which seem to follow no tatical pattern and some have gotten past imperial defences desimicating worlds and slowly getting stronger to there full strength again and are slowly heading for terra

i think i also read that it said the splinter fleets fight each or something if they meet

[Rincewind]

Behemoth was raped by the Ultramarines, nothing is left. Official fluff, end of story. Codex Tyranids, plus Index Xenos article in White Dwarf.

Kraken is formed into small fleets (splinter fleets) that coordinate with each other, attacking hundreds of worlds at the same time. See Codex Tyranids.

Servo Skulls contain a small logic engine, capable of performing limited tasks. It is made from the skull of an Imperial servant, a scribe or somesuch. It is fitted with a small anti-grav engine. See Inquisitor Rulebook.

[El'Jonson]

Good Grief! OK, I'm a 40k vet since the Rouge Trader rulebook (The 1st ed.) Questions?

[DarthFelth]

sure i ant played for 8 months, what are the new rules i hear about for dismounting from vehicles

[El'Jonson]

The new Trial Vehicle Rules are out there, I think in the new Chapter Approved 2004. They are not in effect yet, and the 4th ed of the game is to be released in the next year or so. That being said, I still use the 3rd ed rules, so diembarking isn't any different than your used to. I'm looking into the 4th ed rules set. When I find it, I'll post it for ya.

[Admiral Ragon]

i hope this game is like homeworld 2 then it will RoCk

[Darkness]

ragon its on teh planet surfaces, its not a space rts, no spaceships or motherships here

[Archon Vap'Oriz]

ok im sorry i saw a couple of people say that dark eldar are eldar corrupted by chaos.

this is the opposite of the truth. dark eldar hate chaos. let me tell you a story.

the eldar were once a great and mighty race. they ruled the stars. they eventually got to the point that they love sensuality. they did everything they could to get pleasure from using they're senses. every being has a psycic "echo" that exists in the warp. the home world of the eldar was where the "eye of terror" now exists. one day all that psycic echo from the sensuality collapsed and created a creature known as slaanesh. this is one of the chaos gods. when slaanesh was created , she let out kindof a "psycic birth scream" it kill hundreds of billions of eldar intantly taking their souls and consumning them. when this happened it created the eye of terror. a link between warp space and real space. there are only around maybe at the most 5% of the eldar left. alot of them fled to "craftworlds" large spaceships that are made for living in. worlds in their own entirety. they decided eldar needed to change their ways to prevent something like that from happening agoin. they chose to use i think "soulstones" so whenever they died their souls would go into the stones instead of being consumed by slaanesh.
other eldar wished to keep their ways of sensuality and fled to the webway where they are safe from slaanesh... for the most part. there is a kindof constant drain on their souls very slow, but it is there. they created a city there called commorragh. the dark city. well to survive they take raiding paries using webway portals and such to go somewhere, make a very swift strike, take thousands of prisoner, bring them to their leader, and they tourture the people, kill them and drink their soul to t=keep nourished. there are many kind of clans in the dark city called kabals. each kabal is led by an archon there are constant battles over power in the dark city and treason and backstabbing is more common than making allies. dark eldar hate the chaos gods. especially slaanesh.

and mon-keigh is just a doragatory eldarish term for lesser species. including humans.
*kinda like monkey.....*

my 2 cents

[Admiral Ragon]

ok then thanks i did not know

[Lord Mave]

actually, the dark eldar fled into the webway (a kind of stargate-ish tunnel system that exists in the warp) at the exact moment of the birth of slaanesh, and escaped the destruction of their homeworlds. they sacrifice the sould of thier slaves/victims to slaanesh to keep him/her/it from eating thiers. feed him till he's too stuffed to eat you...

[ObsceneName]

vap is right
and of course the older you get the more of your soul is sucked away so you need more souls

like that one kabal leader in the fluff like kills 10s of thousands of peopel eveyr day to keep him self alive

[Chronigan]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned wraith lords or dreadnoughts
or the fact that there is some sort of supernatural force watching over humanity. Besides the emperor

[Tribunal]

Wouldn't it just be ironic if the emperor was actually Horus, and that he needed the thousands of souls on a daily basis to keep him strong enough so that chaos would not consume him, and that some other supernatural force was guiding mankind? If it was Horus, then the reason he would want to defeat the other chaos forces would enable him to be in total control, not merely a slave or puppet to the chaos gods (as he might have realized at the end, almost dead, and the forces of chaos consuming him), and what better way than to use the forces that defeated your OWN armies! I know it's far fetched and more than not likely, but it's amusing, if nothing else.

[Maximus Decimus]

i believe the adeptus custodes and rogal dorn ruled that posibility out since rogal dorn had the golden throne ordered to be built and the custodes guard the emperor and were with him during the horus heresy so they cant be corrupt.

[The Collector]

Dorn brought the Emperor's body back: he must have seen Horus' corpse. All the Primarchs do not look alike, and he brought home the least-chaos infested of the two bodies, so I doubt it.

Also, the Emperor was dying, and Horus was dead. He could have just said "Help!" and Dorn would find him.

[ankara halla]

Not to mention that the Emperor oversaw the construction of the Golden Throne and didn´t actually enter it until after all the Chaos Legions had been driven into the Eye of Terror, which did take a while afterall.

[DarthFelth]

ok cant be bothered to read this, im tired, however i thought Slaanesh was created by the Eldar, the rest were just created by negative thought, and grew more powerful with the more people that believed in them...

[Maximus Decimus]

uh, slaanesh was created by the eldar because they started to get bored and amuse themselves with torture and pleasure which in turn gave birth to slaanesh. every other god was created the same way, when mankind and all otherlife started killing and were angry at a large scale khorne was born, nurgle is all the disease in the world and if there was no disease or they made a cure for everything nurgle would soon die out, etc.

[Azz35]

actually slaanesh was made by GW LOL!

[Maximus Decimus]

hahaha...we know this. actually ur wrong because u exist in a world specificly designed to keep those imperial citizens under control who dont want to except the real truth of the universe and that it all exists.

do u know what the matrix is? it is a program designed to keep every potentially rebelious citizen under control and to keep those who wont except reality under control as it serves a second purpose. it uses the energy generated from ur bodies and provides fuel for the hives and even the titan legions.

the matrix is real...

[DarthFelth]

actually i ant ;) i know this for a fact (well 99% sure), eldar didnt create the chaos gods at all, just one :p i think the other dodgy thing was that the warhammer world in the 40k galaxy. but hey, dont matter, people believe in chaos, hence why you have chaos cults :p i always thought that the warp was like the dream world (kinda thing), and that the eye of terror was the bridge between the two, well something like that anyways

[Maximus Decimus]

this is all found in the story of the emperor. the warp is the manifestation from living things emotions and energies. the warp was very calm at the dawn of living things when races were just starting. the psychics or chieftans that lived at the time forsaw the warp becoming very violent and manifesting gods as hatred, disease, pleasure grew and the population of living things grew and therefore decided to sacrafice themselves and come together to form the emperor of mankind. That is why the emperor created the primarch and marines to defend against the forces of chaos who with to consume the galaxy. i have in my possesion the "fluffbible" which is a must for everyone who likes to read 40k fluff. It also contains the fantasy/40k connection which i think GW official dropped/denounced after a while cause mybe they found it stupid.

[DarthFelth]

i dunno, slann, 1st ed, whos in warhammer, anyways the warhammer world makes no sense at all :p Yeah thats what i was i think about the warp, kinda, but i know in the eldar book 2nd ed it said only slaanesh was created by the Eldar and they created the spirit stones so they didnt get eaten by him..

[Tribunal]

(nods)
Yup, and before our good eldar buddies there was no access to the warp, aka the realms of chaos.

Just imagine your government telling you that to save you time there would no more planes to have you travel around the world -- INSTEAD you would have to hop in a boat, take a trip through hell and back again (literally) but it would be all right -- Bush (or whichever leader you wish to insert) would be at home, sitting in his chair made of gold guiding you the whole way... Not that comforting a prospect for US, now is it? :bandit:

[DarthFelth]

thats not exactly right, for starts the emperor hasnt really got any choose about sitting there. and from what i knew the slann created the warp travel, or webway, i really cant be bothered to look for it, or was it the old ones, bah who cares, the eldar ant that inportant, i mean all they are is space elfs

[Tribunal]

Well, all I have on the topic is from the Eldar Codex, 2nd ed. Stories change from time to time, especially when it comes to trying to cram in more aspects of their games (like trying to fit in Warhammer into Warhammer 40k). And as far as the emp sitting there, it was just a tad bit of humor (albeit POOR humor ;) ).

IIRC, the slann were the ancient, dying out species of god-like beings in the Warhammer universe... Are they becoming invlved in the 40k universe now?

[DarthFelth]

i know who the slann are thankyou very much, however warhammer confused it, saying the slann in that were the servants of the ancient race, ie slann mage priests. They wernt god like anyways, just very advanved :p

i do have my 2nd eldar book laying about i really cant be bothered to find it, to much bother ;)

[Tribunal]

That's why I said IIRC
(edit crap, my son just smashed the keyboard mid-(censored)-sentence!)
(continued) because I have only played a few games of Warhammer fantasy battle, the RPG, and the Gm made them out to be gods, or descendants of gods. I was hoping to find out if they were one of the forces behind 40k, or if they maybe were behind the appearance of the Necrons (I think an alien race or almost god-like group is behind their reappearance).

[Azz35]

slann were originally in 40k, did something with the warp and ended up in the warhammer universe, if any of you have the rogue trader book (1st ed) then there is a bit about them in there.

[DarthFelth]

yeah i have that book ;) well from what i understood the slann created the warhammer world, then had a war with chaos cos i think like on the warp gates collapsed or something and created the realm of chaos and they had a war and lost, then chaos got more powerful as more and more began to believe in them, then the emperor came along and the rest is history, im abit scared to open my rouge trader book, it was my uncles and isnt in the greatest of condtions. Its a pitty that with 40k they didnt keep the old weapon rules instead of teh new ones, they world alot better, sustain fore dice, you gotta love them, but i never liked teh way characters worked in the old one, they were just to powerful, like Mephiston, he was just a monster, we all know why the dummed down 40k, perhaps they should have had a kids version of 40k and adults version of 40k

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah, i have the fluffbible and i personally dont like the connection with 40k and fantasy. didnt GW announce that they scrapped that piece of fluff? thats what i heard that the connection has been denounced.

[DarthFelth]

i have no idea, i just remeber the staff telling me then what it said in the lizardman book about the slann and stuff

[Tribunal]

That would be interesting... A fast paced 40k, and a more technical version could be fun. Some of my friends that played 40k didn't get too into it due to looking at this chart, calculating that, rolling several defensive rolls, figuring saves then realizing they had a dispacer field and doing the whole thing again! :D

I think that's another reason I'm looking forward to this game -- not enough chances and time to get together with my friends to get a game or two of 40k in anymore.

[DarthFelth]

as i said, teh current armies lists and options with the old weapons rules and 40k would be alot better, however i dont like these new transport rules that effect pretty much everyone but orks.....

as i said funny that

[Tribunal]

As soon as the ork sales go down you know they will put out some new models and a new codex, and when they are introduced they will win every time (until their glaring flaw is revealed). I don't remember the last time I heard anything big for the orks... maybe it happened in my 40k down time.

[DarthFelth]

i just wished they would release them all at the same time, that way the armys might actualy be balanced for a change, i know when grey knights first came out they seemed like they couldnt defeated, then people discovered Khorne demons could save against most of their stuff, and chaos lords with big pointy sticks and collars of khorne made half their stuff, well useless ;)

i would like to see a Thousand sons armt go against a Grey knight army, only if teh lord had that nasty demon sword, hehe

[Azz35]

if all the armies were released at the same time (for one system i presume) then it would be years b4 all the books came out, you prolly know but releasing the armies at the same time won`t make them any more balanced because different people write the books. I don`t know wether i should tell you, or wether you know, but 40k 4th ed is coming out this september, new stealer mould in the box set. looks very nice. oh yeah and if anyone is interested in the witch hunters, the codex is brilliant and they have this bint called the living saint and she is rock hard.

[Tribunal]

4th ed, THIS September?
Hmmm... Well, crap. I wonder what they are going to do to the rules this time?

[dewolfe]

Hmmm... Well, crap. I wonder what they are going to do to the rules this time?

Not much. You know all the Trial Assault Rules, and Trial Vehicle Rules? Well, that's what 4th edition is going to be like (with minor kinks to the shooty rules and some other fiddly bits). All the newest codii (Chaos, "X" Hunters) are "4th edition".

[Tribunal]

And a big thanks to you -- that is EXACTLY what I was hoping to hear. So, I will be able to pick up the codex that I am interested in and it won't be outdated in a few months!

[Maximus Decimus]

well WHATEVER u do DONT pick up the marine codex or eldar codex because the new marine one is scheduled this sept and the eldar one after that.

[Tribunal]

Thanks for the heads up there -- guess I'll be avoiding those groups for a bit!

Right now I am looking into the different paints, and am thinking about using a mix of chaos black for the bulk of the model, mithril silver for detailing, and the black ink for a glossier look to the black and brinking out the details in the mithril silver areas. Can't seem to find the chaos black spray primer, though....

[Maximus Decimus]

thats interesting but dont buy a can of spraypaint from GW because u can buy the same can somewhere else for 1/4 of the price lol. curious what army r u planning? oh if ur wondering the chaos space marine codex is new and for 4th.

[Maximus Black]

A brief history of humanity:

Emperor Born (Unknown date, probably sometime B.C.)

300th centuary AD: Humanity strives out into space, using the warp to build an empire spanning the milky way galaxy.

Building warp storms isolate worlds, and anarchy rules. Chaos, Orks and other creatures enslave humanity. On Earth the Emperor finally reveals himself. He starts a crusade to unite the many tribes of earth.

With Earth under his rule, and the birth of slanesh fast approaching (leading to an end of the warp storms) the Emperor created 20 Primarchs, (god like creatures). However the Chaos gods scattered them away from Earth. They were spread across many worlds, most rose to places of greatness among the humans on that planet.

The Emperor began the creation of the space marines by implanting what is left from the primarchs into humans.

The birth of Slanesh ends the warp storms. The space Marines with the emperor at their head begin conquoring the galaxy. Everywhere humanity fights back against the evil that has enslaved it.

The primarchs are gradually rediscovered.

Horus the greates of the Primarchs is apointed war master, The emperor returns to earth to take control of his empire, entrusting his armies to horus.

Horus is infected with an illness on a small backwater planet. Later turns out that this is a demon. Corupts his own Space Marines, then 8 other Primarchs, and their space Marines. Most are sad stories, such as the thousand sons who saw horus and his betrayl, and used forbidden magics to try to warn the emperor off the impending doom. For their efforts the Space Wolves (Another group of space marines) were sent after them by the emperor. Horus offers his support so they join with him. Another Primarch is continually sent into mundane and unglorific battles by horus, who makes the other Primarchs look down at him. Horus uses this to split him from everyone else, and gain his totall support, which spreads from the primarch into the space marines under his command.

Finally the emperor acts and sends 7 space marine legions after Horus. However 4 of these have been corrupted and attack the loyalists.

Horus has used his position to spread the loyalist forces away from terra (Earth with a new name). He knows if the emperor falls he will have total power. He also promises power to many humans who turn traitor. Battles between the Loyalists and traitors ensue, while horus and several traitor primarchs and their space marines head for terra.

On mars WMD are used against each other and the planet is slowly destroyed. Titans clash against titans destroying the land beneath them. (Titan = Chicken walker only much biger)

All that stands before them are a few imperial Guardsmen, with an acting leader (their original one is fighting with horus) And three space marine legions.

Slowly the Defenders are pushed back untill they have lost the two space ports, and only hold out at the emperors Imperial Palace.

However the white scars (space marine legion) launch lighting raids on one space port and recapture it, halfing the forces heading towards the palace.

At the palace the defenders sufer defeat after defeat. Finally the defenders are pushed right the way back into the palaces throne room. Thousnads of men mill around, while outside the doors the forces of chaos attack the doors. However it will take many weeks to break in. To horus's dismay he is informed that two loyalist legions are mere days away. (the dark angels and space wolves, who hate each other but have put these diffrences aside to save terra. )

Horus has one chance. The emperor must die before they arrive. He blocks all signals to the palace from the legions, then drops his ships shields.

The emperor teleports into Horus ship to kill him to end the herresy. However his army is seperated and most are picked off one by one. Sanguinus (primarch of the Blood angels) finds horus first. He is no match for him, and the emperor finds him dead He fights horus. The emperor is more than a match for Horus, however he holds back not wanting to hurt him.

A terminator enters and horus kills it. The emepror is in a bad state. His flesh has literraly melted, one eye has poped open. one arm is broken, and the other his wirst has been litteraly snapped off, only hanging on by the skin. His mind wages a war with horus but there too he loses. He looks out over terra and realises what is at stake. with what energy he has left he gets back up and kills horus.

Rogal dorn (Primarch of the Imperial fists) arrives, and finds the broken body of the dieing emperor who tells him how to make the golden throne which will keep him alive.


The forces of chaos fall back top the eye of terror. Everywhere humanity regains the upper hand against the traitors. Rouboute Guilliman (primarch of the ultramarines) argues against persuing the traitors aqs the galaxy is in ruins. reluctantly the other primarchs agree. The Dark Angels return home to their homeworld which they have not seen for many years. However chaos has corupted the man in charge of the Dark Angels on the planet. Rumours have been coming in for weeks about the battle for terra, and one of the rumours is that the other Dark Angels helped horus. The corrupted Dark Angel convinces the others they must kill their brothers as they are corrupted. (which they aren't) A titanic battle ensues. The primarch (Lion El'johnson) fights the traitor, who is his best friend from way back. He fiannly realises what he has done and stops fighting the lion. Chaos destory the world and scater the Dark Angels who fought for them unknowingly, and corupt them.

The Dark Angels primarch is injured and hiden by the "watchers" (wierd little aliens who lived on the planet.) The Dark Angels find the traitor whos mind is broken beacuse of what he has done to his friend and his legion.

Meanwhile Rouboute guilliman forms the high lords of terra to rule over the universe in the Emperors stead. As its first act it brakes up the legions from an unlimited number of men into small 1,000 men chapters. (the idea being that if one turns traitor its not too many traitors to deal with).

Gradually the Primarch either die or disapere. (those that have died are rumoured to be heling slowly (rouboute guilliamn & Sanguinas are held in stasis fields, and their blood is said to be returning to their bodies, the lion is healing at the centre of the ruins of his home world ect)

Since then the main goal has been to hold on to what we've got and to eliminate threats before they become too big (ie kill any inteilligent races such as the tau who were meant to die a few decades ago but got lost in the paerwork, then beacme to big to destroy.)

Other important Facts
The tech priests seek out a fully working stc. This is an inteilgent computer system that humans took with them when they first left earth. It is probably that a copy will never be found. PLans of things it designed are comonly available. (Every thing from buildings to tanks and armour are still built to its specifiactions. ) A common mistake is that they do not understnad how things work. They do. Its just that they also belive that machine spirits live in their machines. These are created by the machine god, who is supposedly an aspect of the emperors soul. As the machines are holy they do not develope upgrades much, it took several centuaries to convince them to build a landraider with diffrent guns.

The machine god is actually a necron star god. It has infiltrated mars and is soon going to turn the tech priests against the emperor. This is hinted at many times, the latest exmaple being that necron ships landed on mars (very hush hush first time since the horus herresy anything like this has happened)

The main holds of chaos are in warp storms, such as the eye of terror. Their most of the traitor marines are trapped, by foritified possistions (although this has all changed reaceantly due to the thirteenth black crusade which ende with most of the forifications being in the hands of chaos.) Cultists spirng up everywhere, and generally are killed everywhere, occasionally they can over whelm whole planets, and then summon many demons.

The slann seeded many planets including earth. The warhammer fantasy game is set in our distant past, just a few 1000 years after they seeded earth. Eventually they were killed by the necrons and their star gods. (again before Warhammer fantasy) Humanity eventually caused the extinction of the other races, (insert our own knowldege of history here) the Warhammer 40000 universe is set many millenia in to the future.

Khain is not khorne. Khain was originally an enemy of the eldar, but joined them. He died but his spirit lives on in the avatars. Khorne is the blood god. The ledar would never worship him. EVER.

Many old timers who played 1st and 2nd editions will tell you their own histories. These are now no longer true. Games wrokshop rewrities history very often, changing entire storylines. One such example is the iluminati who were the sons of the emperor in second edition. Games Workshop no longer acknoledges this as being true. (in a very small paragraph it mentions how they were really chaos agents. Another example is the sapce dwarves. (sorry cant remeber their name) which Gmaes workshop has said have no further potental and are no longer a valid army.

4th edition will not be realeased this year. The main guy writing it is more concerned with warhammer fantasy. He said it should be released by christmas 2005. And new eldar and space marine codexs are at best rumours. Orks are way down the list for a new codex (as far as rumours put it)

The next summer campains are Chaos verses Empire and everyone else gets a big invite (confirmed by white dwarf)
(warhammer fantasy) and either the eye of terror contionued (unlikely) or Necrons verses Mars and Terra (unconfirmed) (warhammer 40000)

[DarthFelth]

well i still dont like the new transport rules :p

[Maximus Decimus]

The machine god is actually a necron star god. It has infiltrated mars and is soon going to turn the tech priests against the emperor. This is hinted at many times, the latest exmaple being that necron ships landed on mars (very hush hush first time since the horus herresy anything like this has happened)

this is very untrue and entirely sercumstantual evidence which has been widely accepted by ppl. noone knows what the hell the machine god is and a theory is that its the technology that placed the necros into their necro bodies since machine spirits are souls placed into technology. this may be the reason that they have tried to land on mars. it has infiltrated mars? wtf thats even off the orginal star god on mars theory lol ur off their. the real theory provided by u necron players is that the machine god has slumbered on mars and that the Adepts mach originally discovered him there and started sapping tech out of em while sapping his energy so he does not wake. saying "the machine god is actually the necron star god(u forgot to put dragon in)" is like saying that th laughing god is the deciever and that khaine is khorne. i can argue this case if u want as i have proof for my supporting details.

[ankara halla]

@Maximus Black.
More often than not RT and 2nd ed. fluff is still quite valid. New fluff most often just goes into greater detail as to what has happened and every now and then tells the same things from different points of view, which naturally vary.

And the Illuminati were never the sons of the Emperor, even in RT much less 2nd ed. Sensei Knights were and are the sons of the Emperor. Illuminati is a fractured organization, much like the Inqusition, which, again much like the Inqusition, has gotten alot more inside fluff written about it thoughout the years.

"New fuff" for the most parts (tough there are exceptions to this rule) in no way negates "old fluff".

[Maximus Decimus]

that is very true unless they denounce something officially for example the emperors battle with horus has changed from the original but only by a bit because now all the fluff says is they had a spiritual/psychic/physical battle and emperor won therefore does not put down the fluff of the discriptive detail battle, all it is, is another account from another library/file/whatever.

[Tribunal]

Fascinating read. Thanks!

[Maximus Decimus]

4th edition will not be realeased this year. The main guy writing it is more concerned with warhammer fantasy. He said it should be released by christmas 2005. And new eldar and space marine codexs are at best rumours. Orks are way down the list for a new codex (as far as rumours put it)

hmm as i recall andy chambers or gav announced at a gamesday that 4th is coming out this yr around Q4 04 and space marine codex is being launched at the same time or a month or so later. they are busy with fantasy? well they have finished the new chaos warriors, most likely all the lists and stuff as well. remember now that 4th is 3rd.5 and only makes corrections and make the revised TVR and TAR official. its coming out this yr bud and if u look at portent those guys u supply us with the info on SoC and those release dates also supplied us with release dates for iron hands(they were correct) and are for 4th ed and its contents they say it is coming sept and thats probebly accurate as the guy has been write before. his name was frog something or so on portent his respected and usually is always on mark.

[DarthFelth]

man you really cant stand the thought of being wrong can yay, the other guy sounds like he actualy has a clue Maximus, unlike you

[Maximus Decimus]

ok there bud, where was he proving me wrong? exactly clarify what the hell ur talking about mybe u should learn how to properly structure a sentence and learn whats included in a statement like that. u just come out of nowhere. srry bud but i think ur the one who has no idea wtf is going on. u wanna be hostile fine with me.

[DarthFelth]

what a cheap shot, i ant even gona lower to that, i never actualy said he had proved you wrong nugget boy, however unike you, he sounds like he has a clue and not some little rich boy who has nothing to do other than read 40k books cos no one comes round to play ;)

[Maximus Decimus]

lol nicely done, i just need this answered what does he have a clue about/knows about, u keep mentioning this but i have no idea what ur talking about. if its about the 4th edition then u should read the transcripts of the gamesday session with gav or thorp i believe it was, think it was either u.s. or uk games day. there he states 4th is coming this yr and sm codex is coming right after with a doctrine like set of rules, SW BA and DA are getting their own codexs. if its about the fluff he just had some minor incorrections like saying the iluminati are the sons which was incorrect or that just cause they dont rewrite fluff all the time that it means it doesnt exist anymore wtf. they wont keep writing the story of the emperor over and over and over again, theyd rather develop new unheard of fluff for eg.

do u trust him when he says he knows the guy thats writing 4th? there is a very reliable source at portent who goes by brotherfrog and hes usually always been write.

[DarthFelth]

I didnt go to the last gamesday, i ant been for a few years, maybe your right, maybe he is, as i said he sounds like he has a clue, you dont simple as, i dont care who is right really, and hey i used to know a few staff who worked at head office in england, so what, how do you know im not a liar, you dont, i guess you have to take people at what they say, however when they ant pissing you off, then you tend to believe them of over the ones who do...

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah, only time will tell. truce man iv grown tired of fighting back and forth with u this entire time.

[DarthFelth]

well, i guess so

[Tribunal]

Either way it is agreed: There is a new, 4th ed coming out relatively soon, and there will be Tyranids in it (the new genestealer model, WOOHOO!!!), and new codexes shortly after for several races. So, hopefully the Tyranid and Tau codexes should be safe purchases.

[DarthFelth]

well im hoping i ant gotta buy yet anouther chaos codex, what that will be the 3rd one i've bought if so :(

[Maximus Decimus]

lol well u do have the newest chaos codex correct? cause thats the 4th edition codex and every other codex from that release i believe are 4th edition eg. imp guard, daemon hunters, and witch hunters which is coming out soon very soon.

[DarthFelth]

how many did i say i say i had:p idont have the rouge trader the one :( ohh, i dont have the set :(

[markb053]

Re Codexes and which ones not to buy due to new edition. Tau and all Codexes released after that one are designed with 4th Ed in mind, this is why if you have ever played Chaos with the new Codex under the old assault rules they completly annhilate everyone, even more than they do with the trial assault rules! (Don't get me started on the sheer broken-ness of the Chaos COdex!). If you already have the old codexes don't worry, 3rd to 4th Ed 40k will be like 4th to 5th Ed WHFB, just a few rules tweeks.

[SoheilsX]

ARGH! They should have a goddamn tradein policy for codexes, otherwise they could update them every day and be at 349523 ed. and be billionares@!!!

[Tribunal]

What I would like to know is if the '04 rules upgrade book (Chapter Approved, iirc) would have all the rules in it that are going to be included in the codex updates? I would be tempted to pick up the Codexes right now if all of the updates hapened to be in it.

I just can't wait for the new edition to come out -- I want to se what the new genestealer model looks like -- I'm hoping it's in the same vein as the new Tyranid look!

[DarthFelth]

i hope they dont change stealers that much, i think they look great the way they are, just that the old plastic models suck, cos they lack the options of the new plastic ranges

[Maximus Decimus]

uh there is a thread on portent.net showcasing the new stealers that are to come out and im srry to report but they look 95% the same as the plastic ones we have right now

[DarthFelth]

hmm, i was hoping they were gona be a multipart set like all the new plastic range out now

[Captain Zog]

I think it was 2 years ago at Games Day, GW had a guy shouting out the entire story of the Horus Heresy, it was very entertaining and included one bit of information missed in that long account,

Sanguinius didn't die in vain, he was not so completely outmatched by Horus, before he got sliced and diced, he managed to damage Horus' deamon armour. This helped the Emperor as, he was very much weakened from his long battle against Horus, where he held back, trying to turn he son back to the light, the chink in Horus' armour allowed the Emperor to stick his sword into the Fallen primarches body and kill him with a psychic shock. Abaddon then stole Horus' claw and the rest is history (future, whatever)

[Daste]

I would say that the imperium is more or less ruled by a facist regime.

[Maximus Decimus]

lol u present that as if its fact lol captain zog but it is nothing but a rumor that goes on through out the imperium much like ppl in medieval timeswould completely over do stories of great feats done by heros slain in combat etc.

According to some versions of the tale it was this wound that Sanguinius struck which opened a chink through the armour of Horus, enabling the Emperor to slay his enemy. The Blood Angels certainly say as much in their doctrine. -GW ~Death of Sanguinus~ story

what a surprise this version of the story is the version of the blood angles, clearly glorifying the death of their primarch? mybe or mybe not, i will not say that this is fiction for sure as i do not know but dont go around presenting glorifyed tales in the fluff universe as facts of the actual event. the story of the emperor fighting horus and the story of Sanguinus' death dont fit together most probebly pointing out that the blood angels glorifyed his death. this is what i have concluded from the atricles read and u can conclude ur own belief just PM me and ill give u the articles.

its known that deaths of great heros are always glorified and most curtainly by the mans own men. what would it do to the moral if they said "hey guys heresy is over imperium is in anarchy and our primarch died at the hands of horus foolishly , oh and we need u to still keep fighting onward to defend our realm and restore order"

believe what u will but do not enforce ur views on others. again PM if u want the accounts of the events.

[Captain Zog]

Oh its ok, i do have plenty of fluff related to the event, i was just pointing out a bit of info that often included in the tales around that fight, i really should have put that it was not a definite fact but i didn't.
The GW guy that was telling the story did lean further towards glorifying the events as he told the story to the masses sitting in the NIA and was telling it more from the perspective of a scribe taking peoples accounts and trying to make a good story rather than necessarily telling the whole truth.

It was a time of great glory of course so deeds are exagerrated.

[Maximus Decimus]

true true, i sometimes like the tales of glorifyed events but for this instance i just have seen SOOO many BA players brag about how BA saved all of the imperium blah blah blah and r the best.

good day

[Captain Zog]

Ah, i see now, not many blood angel players in Aberdeen, mostly Black templars

[DarthFelth]

, not many flesh tearer players down my way, ipswich....