Warhammer 40k Titans

[madmerchant]

[Former 40k Collector - been clean now for 5 years!]

We've all seen them, either in the codex of the army, or stories, or even at Games Day...Titans.

The average 40k collector never has, or will have one of these, although they are available from a certain website...
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/Paintwarhound1.jpg
Your own Warhound Titan, only £275!

I always wanted to drive one of these beasts in a game, looking down on the battlefield and shooting all who oppose!

Please put this in Relic!!!

KTHX!

[Ezekiel_980]

I have the old armorcast ones, not as detailed but still very cool. I have the reaver and warhound (1 complete weapon set for both)

Old Titans! (http://www.armorcast.com/warhammer40k/index.html)

Whats great about these is they are cheaper and have changeable weapon configs. can only find them on ebay though...

[Inquisitor]

Gotta love Forgeworld :)

The only think I don't like about the pic is that you don't get a good sense of how truly massive these things are!

[eadipus]

in my first game of epic i took two eldar titans which totally boned an imperial one

in other news in an attempt to get a realistic model for a titan a friend of mine wrapped someone in tin foil and then made him stand on the table and move 6" a turn

[SoheilsX]

ahem... I have one :nana: . I bought it a while back, a warhound, pretty challenging to put together. Very nice to have standing over my army.

[Flame Carrier]

i wanne know the scale of thoes things, how many times bigger are they too human sized units

[Stalin]

They're MUCH bigger than anything we could really think of (well...depending on which type of Titan you're looking at)....

I'd say along the lines of a modern-day skyscraper for the average sized ones (just in height...not width)

[Tyryt]

Warhound titans (like the one above) are approx 60 ft tall, Warlord titans stand at about 80. The only ones bigger than that are the Empritor (or however it's called), they are fairly new (as far as when they were released RL), and are at most 160 ft tall.

As an idea for scale, consider them on par with Battle Tech mechs.

Tyryt
Let the swarm consume.

[Flame Carrier]

cool 160 ft and thats how many meters???

[The5thElephant]

A meter is about 3 and a little more feet. Calculate!

[ÜberJumper]

A BattleMech is no more than 40 ft tall... anywhere from 7 to 12 meters.

[Beelzebuddy]

160 ft ~~ 50 m ~~ 25 man-heights ~~ 12 stories.

From the infromation given in another thread, an Imperator Titan costs 900 points, while an Imperial Guardsman costs 1.4 points.

The implication is that a fight between a twelve story robot and 600+ troops should be fairly even. I could see that.

Dunno why everyone seems to be so dead-set against Titans, especially considering that they will be balanced, as the units have had 15+ years of playtesting already.

[IWAssassin]

Titans have NEVER been balanced in terms of 40k. Simply because they were never meant to be in competitive games of 40k.

They were never supposed to really be in Epic either, but people saw that you *could* get a Titan from Armorcast in 40k, so wanted it in Epic where it would at least fit BETTER than in Epic.

So Epic Began to include Titans, but there's been nowhere NEAR 15 years of balancing done on them.

Heck we can only truely count current edition in terms of balancing, and Titans for 40k3 have been out what... 3 years? With two rules writes that are still 100% optional because they KNOW its not to the standard level of GW balancing [which itself has become rather poor, thus necessitating a 4th Edition, which we're not really getting [we're getting a 3.1 edition and calling it 4th]

[[CoFR]Bopa|CGA|]

titians are over the top in a 40k environment, but knights on the other hand would be doable... i think there was old armorcast stuff at one time..


I've played epic for a long time--and titans were always around--and worked well, in that system. I wanna say that was around 94 or so....IIRC

[Flame Carrier]

knights ???? i want pic

[Tyryt]

Adeptus Titanicus was the first time titans saw release, early 90s. that was BEFORE epic. at that time, all you could use were titans, they didn't have any of the vehicles, troops, etc. (games looked very similar to the 'new' battletech) 1-3 titans each, etc. The neatest part was all the customizations you could have. :)

Tyryt
Let the swarm consume.

[Ezekiel_980]

From what i've discovered titans kinda suck in 40k.
I have a warhound and reaver, I used the reaver once in a game with 30,000+ points to a side. The result a few dead tanks and a very well ruined warhound titan. The reaver was done in VDR as acuretly as i could and cost about 1200 points.
The warhound hasn't faired much better. I use it about once or twice a month in games. I usualy smack on a turbo laser and plasma blast gun so that i can kill swaves of tanks. Even with vulcan mega bolters and an inferno cannon it can't kill enough infantry to be any real use so I end up wasteing 700+ points on a model that look nice.

[[CoFR]Bopa|CGA|]

the problem with titans in 40k is simple--they become firemagnets. In epic this is solved by having many auxillary units and terrain, but in 40k...the distances are too small for a titan to really manuever.

ps-having a hard time finding knight pics..but imagine titans at about 1/4th the scale.... kinda like 1 man titans. They tended to operate in small packs.

[Artimus]

Originally posted by ÜberJumper
A BattleMech is no more than 40 ft tall... anywhere from 7 to 12 meters.

Actually, I think your average Heavy Battlemech can be 15 M tall. 17 + if you drive an Atlas.

[ShineDog]

guardsmen are six points, not 1.4

pretty sure its six. six or seven.

[Numenor]

Shine thats in 40k, he was quoting Epic.

Numenor

[Beelzebuddy]

From what i've discovered titans kinda suck in 40k.in 40k...the distances are too small for a titan to really manuever.So the primary reason Titans are underpowered in 40k is lack of maneuvering room?

While I can understand how a 4-foot monstrosity can be cramped on a normal tabletop, this is a video game. The devs can make the tabletop as big as they damn well please.

Of course, if the problem is plain jane underpoweredness, a reduction in points would probably be in order. Balance is what they're there for, after all.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Titans don't work in 40k. Unless you are playing 20,000 points a side, the just don't work. Because the left foot of a Warlord titan is the size of a house. It would take up too much of the map.

Because every heavy weapon the enemy had would be able to target it because of the size issue. In Epic, you have hills, trees and buildings large enough to block LOS. That's near impossible to model in a 40K set.

So point for point, in Epic not every gun the enemy has will have LoS. In 40K, unless you put them facing the wrong way, they will just about always be able to target it.

Plus how the heck do you model a vulcan megabolter? How big is an inferno gun template? If the Titan got 1st turn, he might be able to break then entire enemy force in one turn if these weapons were scaled right, which they ain't by any rules I've seen.

[Beelzebuddy]

That is a good point. But again - video game. I'd be sorely disappointed if Relic didn't include terrain.

[IWAssassin]

Vulcan mega bolter I dont remember but the Inferno Gun is large blast template S6 AP4 60" range and I BELIEVE still causes the auto fallback.

In a game where you can actually take a Titan thats an utterly pointless gun, as the most it can kill is a squad of Banshees, and that you'll only get 3-4 of them unless your opponent was stupid.

Vulcan Mega Bolter if I recall was something like S5 AP4 D3*3 Blast which is slightly more useful against REAL swarms but not by much.

The problem with Titans in 40k. Nothing can be better than a Demolisher Cannon and nothing can be better armored than a Land Raider.

You start trying to represent vehicles where a Demolisher Cannon would be considered too small to bother mounting [one super heavy has a Demolisher Cannon and its a SECONDARY weapon] and a Land Raider would be considered to have paper thin armor, and simply it doesnt work.

40k2 was more robust in this area, as Titans could have 30+ armor when heavy armor was 22-24, and they werent afraid of saying "use a 6" blast template" even when 3" was the biggest one in the game but even then...

[Stymie_Jackson]

Originally posted by IWAssassin
...a Land Raider would be considered to have paper thin armor, and simply it doesnt work.

In epic they had a 2+ armor save...which was the best for anything not a super-heavy tank. They were tough with dual las-cannons that could take down a titan. If you had about a dozen you could drop a Reaver. That's why they don't work in 40k...that's a lot of tanks!

Those stats you give for weapons sound WEAK as hell...in epic the megabolter did 8 shots, hitting on a 4. Each hit would kill a stand of troops...or 5 unlucky suckas! Only terminators had a save, and that was on a 6 on a d6. So that gun averages 20 infantry kills a shot. How do you model THAT in 40k? Too crazy. The Titan is the size of a skyscraper...the barrel the size of an oil drum! The shell would have to do more than equal the stats of a man portable heavy bolter...

But like someone said, this is a video game. Bring on the titans!
:cranky:

[IWAssassin]

Generally Speaking the Vulcan Mega Bolter will get 10 kills in 40k against anything lighter than a Marine. 3 kills against Marines, 2 against Terminators. So about half as powerful (:

That is the problem though. 12 Land Raiders against a Reaver... the second LIGHTEST Titan Class. In tems of 40k That's 3000 Points. In terms of an army, well an entire CHAPTER of Marines gets 10 Land Raiders.

And of course the reality... you dont see Titans coming alone, or in twos or threes. Titans deploy a hundred at a time. Thats what makes them awe inspiring. Each one is worth an entire COMPANY of Guardsmen, and when 100 show up thats the equivilant of 5 or so Army Corps.

[Mephesto_Odium]

I would be rather interesting if a few of the additional races got Titan class units :P A Necron Titan with a titan class particle whip and a warscythe would be rather scary :D

[Flame Carrier]

plepelple add godzilla too the game

[[CoFR]Bopa|CGA|]

godzilla eh? We played once with tyrannids that used a godzilla model as a biotitan...with house rules of course. It was hilarious..


all we needed was a tape playing in the background of "go go godzilla" --if any of youz remember BOC :p

[DR_RANSOM]

The reason titans don't work in 40k is that fact that the average person is 1 in tall ( the peice) and the titans are 4ft tall so the seize doesn't fit. it would be impossible to fit in that game. IN epic the size is reduced so there can be more units and they are smaller so the difference is less odvious. In the game it depends, if it is an individualistic game, titans are defenitly out, (or they should be) they would fit in. But if it is an army game, with huge hordes, then titans should be in it.

[Newtype]

Myself being an ex-WH40k nut, I am personally friggin excited about this game.

The previous attempts to put 40K on digital just outright sucked.
The first attempt, Warhammer 40k, was so slow and boring, I never bothered to play past mission 2. And the Epic version was okay, but you couldnt use the Imperators, so I said fek that...
Then Rites of War came out, and I was so disappointed that I nearly gave up 40k altogether..

I had a massive collection of armies, to include: Space Marines (3500pts), Eldar (4000pts), Tyranids (1200pts), Tau (2000pts), three full Epic armies, and a large Gothic Space Marine fleet (Battlebarge included). (Sadly, due to a divorce, I was forced to part ways with my prized collection..)

Also, I was a very proud owner of three orignal resin Titans from Armorcast before it went under right before 40k went to v3.

I had a Warhound, which was nothing more than a bullet sponge.

I also had the nastiest, most mobile Titan of all, the Eldar Revenant Titan, which had jump jets, and could easily annihilate anything smaller than it.

And of course, my flagship unit, a full size Eldar Phantom Heavy Titan, arguably the best Titan ever. With a Heat Lance, Heavy Pulsar, Heavy Bright Lance and Missile Launchers, coupled with the Eldar speed, agility, and Holofields, I never lost a game using war engines. My Phantom alone destroyed 3 Imperial Warhounds and 1 Reaver in a single 50K point game, which is no mean feat.

My friend and I would use the floor of his two car garage for four player games, sometimes having a total of 15 war engines in play.
I am glad that Forgeworld is making Titans again, but I am not a big fan of the new angled look they have. I still like the smooth, contoured look of the Armorcast Titans.
I am very happy that they are making full scale Thunderhawks and other air units.

All in all, I am glad this game is coming out.. Since 40k went to v3, I felt like the player and fan base had diminished greatly. Hopefully, this game will bring interest back to one of the greatest tabletop games ever!

BTW, if I ever do buy another army, go Daemonhunters!

[ObsceneName]

ok look if you take a titan ok
you will never see the model except for its foot unless you can control the camera to make it look up in the air
youll see a foot
and it will be able to walk on enemy models this thing wouldnt even be remotley fair youd have it move
youd only see a shadow and all the combat stops and the orcs yell oh fuck whats wrong with the developers putting something so big it dosnt need to shoot at us as it only needs to take a step to wipe out half of a army...
seriously think about it space marines are 7 feet tall a hive tyrant is the biggest model thats nto a tank
take 5 space marines and hyou get the size of a hunched over hive tyrant now take 2 and 3/4s of a hive tyrant youd get about the size of a titan now if you do that it would only take a step to wipe out entire enemy models ok
it simply wouldnt make sence to have something so big

[riddles]

I played warhammer:dark omen and back when it came out i thought it was pretty fun.

You had squads of calvary or soldiers on foot rushing at each other with yelling and body parts flying about.There were heroes with special abilites and at the time even a decent story I thought(although i didn't finish the game).

This dawn of war game could use squads at least in the same way and that would leave some room for epic scale.

Anyhow this game does look like it could be good, I have only previously played dark omen and liked that game so i hope it might be similar to that in some ways.

If you have not tried dark omen just d/l the demo online, it is an old game though so it doesnt look that great now.

[Darkness]

dark omen is awesome

[ObsceneName]

dark omen is by far the best warhammer game out
I havnt played fire warrior yet so..

[Maximus Decimus]

have a couple of questions regarding dark omen, u guys know of any sites with a free dark omen download since it isnt being sold in stores anymore and is so hard to find on the net. and 2 will dark omen operate on XP, i had the demo and it operated on 98


:fight:

[riddles]

Yeah i just tried to d/l the demo but it only plays on windows 95.

If someone knows where we can get the full version free that would be nice, as long as it can play on xp.

[Maximus Decimus]

believe the demo was actually shadow of the horned rat, tried dling the demo just now and it failed on setup. ill try that, any sites locating these discontinued games would be helpful

[Tribunal]

I just pulled out my copy of it and tried to run it on XP, but it crashes every time. Now to see if there is a patch for it...

And playing front line battles, and then suddenly being engulfed in shadows as a titan passed overhead would be awesome. And think of hold and defend missions, holding off a tide of orks as one of their titans is approaching, slowly approaching and hoping your supporting titan makes it their in time, and then being able to watch them duke it out, heat cannons etc blasting overhead... Man, I can't wait!

[HeritorAsphodel]

Hey! I remember Shadow of the Horned rat...never caught on to it...and it doesnt work on xp either...

[Mr Carrot]

SOTHR is probably the hardest RTS of all time (yes harder then C&C Covert Ops).

Theres a "fix" for Dark Omen on XP but i cant get it to work.

[Defunk203]

Yeah it was hard, but I loved it. The early "loren" missions were imposible though I remeber the relief when you got to Zuhfbar and could actually start making a profit.

[XSKiith]

SOTHR is probably the hardest RTS of all time.That makes me feel much better as it's the only RTS that I can remember not finishing, also I remember playing it when it first came out and it was definately the slowest RTS that I've ever played.

On Titans I verymuch hope that they don't make the battlefield as anything more than wreakage as their size would be just too much.

[Anthonace]

the biggest thing i can expect will be a warhound if anything

if you dislike the angular look of some of the titans look at the mars pattern one on forge world

[The Collector]

Someone asked for a image of a Knight. Since this is a Titan thread, I'll just post it here.

Edit:


http://home.graffiti.net/winsettz/knight.gif

Knight or Sentinel?

[Cortanus]

That is the Armageddon variant of a sentinel, with an enclosed crew compartment and a lascannon armament. Oh, and a searchlight.

[The Collector]

Usually I see the un-enclosed sentinel variants.

We continue to search for a Knight.

In hindsight, the right-arm mount resembled the... o_o

Blah. Anyone found a Knight image yet?

[Cortanus]

I have bits and peices of knight models from Titan Legions, but I am hard pressed to find any images of one.

[Rikesgard]

Titans would be out of place in a game like this. Tanks and dreadnaughts are really as far as it should go. Reason being that this game will not be using the 40k rules, only the way things were in 40k as inspiration. Just take a look at the FAQ, even tanks, it says, will be nigh unkillable to guys with bolters. So if they were to add in Titans and had any desire to make them comparable to their tabletop power, they'd be unkillable by virtually all of the troops in the game, and of the troops that could damage them, you'd almost certainly have too few to effectively counter the Titan.

So the point really isn't whether they can add them or whatever else, it's whether they should add them. Will the game be more fun with units that dwarf all others in both power and stature compared to one where you don't have these super-units? I wouldn't think so, and I sincerely hope Relic's developers don't either.

[Retribution]

In an old white dwarf, back in the day, Probably when 40k was still second edition, they did a piece on the battle for the Emperor's Palace on Terra.

Now, this was the Mother of all Battles when it comes to the Heresy. Most of the Space Marine legions, duking it out for the future of mankind, hanging on a knife edge...
How did GW choose to represent it? A 28mm scale Warlord titan, possibly fighting a heretic version.
This thing was HUUUUUUUGE
Very impressive.

I believe it may have been showcased at a Games Day, or at Warhammer World. If anyone has any pictures, I'm sure the rest of us would love to see, including me.

[ionfish]

Yeah, it was at Games Day - can't remember which year. No photos, sorry; maybe you could try googling for it.

[No Surrender]

On a side note, the doors to the Emperor's chamber on Earth is guarded by two Warlord Titans!

As I've said before. Titans are way too big to fit in a typical 40k battlefield.

[alleluja_]

Before you say you want Titans again just look at this photo and think how the hell would they implement them in the game.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Chaos/warhound/legplate1.jpg

[Fitz]

I smell an early MOD plan !!!

[badwitchproject]

I smell an early MOD plan !!!

What replace all the units with titans.....

BTW Retribution: I believe that its still set up somewhere in GW. I know they don't get rid of the displays, but keep them for people who wish to tour GW's head office in Lenton.

[DevlshOne]

Why do I sense from what I see and hear in this thread that George Lucas and/or Steven Spielberg did the Warhammer40K thing? The similarities between Star Wars and WH40K seems astonishing. Different races and worlds - mixtures of robotic and human - fabulous weaponry and scaling - struggles between good and evil - religion and "the force".

[Maximus Decimus]

Why do I sense from what I see and hear in this thread that George Lucas and/or Steven Spielberg did the Warhammer40K thing? The similarities between Star Wars and WH40K seems astonishing. Different races and worlds - mixtures of robotic and human - fabulous weaponry and scaling - struggles between good and evil - religion and "the force".

Well personally I think that the 40k universe is much more expanded and detailed than the SW universe. Funny my sister thinks space marines kinda look like storm troopers. I would not doubt that they borrowed from SW cause they took a bit from ever legend and myth out there but i would doubt it cause SW is very greedy when it comes to copyright issues i mean they even copyrighted the word "darkside"

[Uzgah]

struggles between good and evil -
Tad ambiguous in the 40k universe. Who is good, who is evil?
Hell some aare clear cut, Chaos or example.
But I'd never that the Imperium was 'good'. Far too draconan for my liking. I like it a tad more liberal =/

Sorry way off topic... carrying on the SW-GW thing. I could only think that some inspiration was garnered from SW. Hell the guys that created GW grew up in the era when SW was fresh. It inspires people now, when its a classic, so I could only assume that some teeny-weeny bits of SW made it into 40k.

[The Collector]

There is no good in the universe. There is only damnation or oppression. Choose wisely.

[ceejayoz]

Well personally I think that the 40k universe is much more expanded and detailed than the SW universe. Funny my sister thinks space marines kinda look like storm troopers. I would not doubt that they borrowed from SW cause they took a bit from ever legend and myth out there but i would doubt it cause SW is very greedy when it comes to copyright issues i mean they even copyrighted the word "darkside" Heh... Star Wars is greedy about copyright issues?

Try looking at the Games Workshop legal terms sometime. They're just as bad as Lucasarts is about Star Wars. Running a fansite could become a nightmare if they don't clear some things up in the fansite kit...

From what I've seen of the WH40K universe, it's not as developed as Star Wars is... there're what, 60 Star Wars novels now?

[The Collector]

Problem is with novels is that apparently at intervals they contradict each other. Unsure how bad it is with Star Wars and 40k

[Vijil]

I think the main thing is that star wars is simply boring compared to 40k.

[Cortanus]

Heh... Star Wars is greedy about copyright issues?

Try looking at the Games Workshop legal terms sometime. They're just as bad as Lucasarts is about Star Wars. Running a fansite could become a nightmare if they don't clear some things up in the fansite kit...

From what I've seen of the WH40K universe, it's not as developed as Star Wars is... there're what, 60 Star Wars novels now?

Novels don't generally develop a universe. The star wars universe is quite diverse, but the two (Star Wars and 40k) are detailed in different ways.

[The Collector]

If anyone cares, the Games Day thing was Games Day 98. It's referenced to in White Dwarf 267.

[ceejayoz]

Novels don't generally develop a universe. The star wars universe is quite diverse, but the two (Star Wars and 40k) are detailed in different ways. What does develop a universe? Unit stats?

[Anthonace]

background written in the rule books for 40k develops the universe

for star wars erm....... :buddies:

[ionfish]

'98... yeah, that sounds about right. I would've been sixteen then. That titan looked fucking awesome close up.