Hw2 Fleet engagement MOD

[Ta_erog]

Hw2 Fleet engagement MOD


ChangeLog:

0.7 – Large update.
Added the HW classic rule set (Luke Moloney's Homeworld Classic Mod, updated by Mikail) with some modifications, since it works so nicely and adds some really great features.
A totally reworked and expanded Research tree . .
Changes to Targeting, More attack classes allowing each ship to select from a expanded list of preferred targets.
Changes to weapons, Weapon restrictions relaxed. Some Weapons can now attack a wider range of targets with a wider range of accuracy’s.
Changed Fleet MOD’s Mother ship to Vager type . . looks better with the fleet ?!
Temporary fix to the problematic Rules MOD problems (till we can figure out what’s up with it)
Cleaned up Vager side and assigned complimentary weapon systems. (for CPU skirmish)
Removed CPU only AI changes to Fleet MOD side . . to help fix crashes with CPU skirmish (Fleet MOD side does not work as a CPU player in skirmish) yet . .

And more . .


0.6 – Large update.
Added the HW classic rule set (Luke Moloney's Homeworld Classic Mod, updated by Mikail) with some modifications, since it works so nicely and adds some really great features.
Added some more of Greggy’s and Bandit’s ships. . . So the dreadnought now uses the BB’s hull with his massive gun subsystems. . and I have added a new cruiser (battle cruiser) to the light and heavy cruiser’s.
Swapped the assault corvette’s HOD/ship with the pulsar corvette HOD/ship.
Added Nukes (still need better FX)
Bombers now fire missiles.
Ion colors from Demon_Eyes
New background graphics (something I wiped up)
All ships have new descriptions (though not full ones, er or very useful ones)
Defender now working
Things to fix:
Nuke needs better FX
Need to find parameter for EMP disable timing
Need to edit attack styles to keep ships farther back when attacking if they have long range weapons
Balancing (price, time to build, weapons, HPs etc . . )
And more . .



This MOD is designed to add missing fleet elements to Homeworld 2.

2x plus the number of ships as in HW2 (Both Hiigaran and Vaygr fleets merged (for lack of useable New HODs so far) Plus some new ships.
The Ships have altered movement, rotation, damage and other stats. (Ie CAP ships have similar top speeds but different accelerations)
ALL new weapons. These are standardized and have defined roles (Small beams can’t damage anything but unarmored ships). Also the use of the weapons have changed . . Beams are longer ranged but weaker then kinetics and the kinetics are very deadly but highly inaccurate.
Weapons have shock and push effects.
Additional ECM and ECCM capabilitys.


And more. .


Download . .
Hosted by homeworld.star-fleet.org (http://homeworld.star-fleet.org)

:new: (reuploaded there was a problem with the last one earlyer today)
Zip file FE_MOD_v.7.zip (http://homeworld.star-fleet.org/mods/download.php?action=zip&image_id=37)

Also please note that my MOD is OPEN source (minus the HODs I am using - any exeptions will be listed) . . You can DO anything you want with it! Feel free to take what you want or modify it the way you want (even use it as a basis for your mod if it will help you)

Have fun! :Pint: (Please help with suggestions)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description
Primary goals:
Fill out the combat fleets of both races.
To make ships more mobile with a simulation of a more “space” like environment.
Secondary Goals:
Change the weapon distribution and use to something more consistent. (ie Mk.I-V and more defined qualities between the three main types of weapons)
Incorporate missile defense.
Incorporate EW Electronic warfare (ECM Electronic Attack, ESM Electronic Support and ECCM Electronic Protection), This is geared to detection range/jamming mostly
Incorporate an intergraded targeting and jamming framework. A kind of (JTIDS) Joint Tactical Information Distribution System, This is geared to enhance weapon targeting/evasion only.


This MOD is designed to add missing fleet elements to Homeworld 2. Some of the added elements will be added capital Ships like Destroyer, carrier and cruiser variants and specialized craft like support, defense, ECCM craft etc . .
Another big change will be Engine class based top speed (Most cap ships will have a very similar top speed) and additional simulated inertia (a much more gradual acceleration and deceleration) this will be loosely based on mass and overall balancing. Rotation rates will be governed by ship length and an agility level (ie less mass and less length = faster rotation rate, agility level is an additional balancing factor).
Ship balancing will be handled like a RPG. I will assign a # of “points” to each hull type and distribute them to Various attributes (ie a DD Hull has 10 points . . I will assign points to Weapons, Acceleration, Rotation rate “agility”, Armor, and special extras . .possibly a few more . . This distribution will show my weighting for each subclass . . a Fast DD will trade armor and/or weapons for Acceleration and agility. A command DD will have to pay for its special extras like ECCM or JTIDS etc. .) This will insure at least to some level that ship balancing will start right away and without changing weapon stats.
Another addition will be fast long range missile systems with counter point defenses . . Missiles will be used for long range stand off attack and bombardment. These can in turn be defeated by concentrated point defenses and re-countered by missile saturation. “large” Missile will also not be able to “chase” targets if they miss with there targeting they miss.
I am also going to try to organize the weapon distribution in the game. There seems to be a common version or two of weapons that seem to be rated by size (poorly so) but most are unique one time weapons (one ship has one type of weapon and another has a totally different weapon) What I propose is to first classify weapons by strength MKI-V and then classify them by use and type. For example the missile weapons will be the longest ranged weapons with fair accuracy (no turning around 180deg), deadly payload, but can be defeated with Point defenses (must overwhelm them to get through) . . . Beam weapons are medium range weapons used for stand off fights or point defense for strike craft, highly accurate but lower damage, they need consistent hits or longer sustained hits over time to be effective but rarely miss. . . Hyper-Val projectiles are very short ranged due to very poor accuracy, but very high damage and are primarily used to do massive damage to capital ships hulls for killing blows but at the cost of having to getting in close. These changes should allow easier ship setup and weapon tasking and a much better idea of what each weapon can do.
I would like to Incorporate some kind of EW and Tactical Information systems for cat and mouse radar jamming and burn through. And additionally some weapon targeting enhancements and counter jamming. . . This will allow ambush and sneak attacks possible and also allow a smaller but informational integrated force to be deadly (ie a flight of fighters with a AWACS can be more dangerous then 2 flights with out one)

With these changes I hope to expand the playability and tactics of HW2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes to date:
Engine classes:
Small Strike craft, utility craft, corvettes, war capital ships, non-military/construction capital ships. All have different Top speeds by class though the range of top speeds is small. Since this is being models after modern navel combat to an extent (more doctrine then physical) all ships in fleet have a similar top speed with the exception of Strike craft and corvettes.
The more mass a ship has the slower the acceleration is (to a point) Then I separate the base amount into three levels a “heavy” version of a hull will accelerate slower then a “normal” which in turn is slower then a “Light/fast” version. These sub versions will add or sacrifice the appropriate amount of attributes (armor/weapons etc.) to justify the variance.
Rotation speed will be governed by ship length and Engine class. This in turn will be modified again by the three levels, a “heavy” version of a hull will rotate slower then a “normal” which in turn is slower then a “Light/fast” version.
Weapon classes:
Added all new weapon systems. Since it is rare to have custom weapons for each ship I made a weapon framework to cover common weapon in the fleet. These are rated from MKI-V and differentiated by class (ie, Kinetic, hyper Kinetic, heavy Kinetic, E-Pulse, E-Beam, Plasma, G-Missile, CAP-Missile, Mines . . plus specials like EMP, burst, Nuke etc . .)
This list ensures at least 60 different weapons just on the Hiigaran side and a much more constant gradient of weapons sizes and damage.
This list is being implanted into the XLS spreadsheet for ease of use (this will be freely distributed if asked for)


These changes so far for only the Higaaran ships. Not all additional classes of ships have been made (Escort DD, light Carrier, and Cruiser are done). Ships are now move more lively and have much more interesting fights . . Frigates are wilily little ships now dodging around larger ships with guns blazing . . they tend to be missed more my missiles and heavy guns (due to weapon changes too) and stay alive much longer and can turn the tide if ignored.

Problems:
With quest to stop auto leveling of ships some ships tend to bank excessively while turning. Easy fix but must find alternate workaround.


Weapon Classes: Still early in process but tests working

Beams are the point defence weapons of choice (best vs strike craft) :new:
Kenetic weapons are the CAP busters now. :new:
Missiles: are now much longer range 6000+ and gracefully curve toward target . . smaller ships like frigates have a very good chance to dodge if actively moving. Also the closer the ship is the harder for the missile to keep locked due to there speed and shallow turning angle.
Missiles: Missiles are in there own targeting class now “missile” rather then munitions.
Missiles: Can’t get missiles to detonate prematurely (ie. Before physically striking ship) wanted this for “Blast weapons”


Problems:
Missiles: Not fully tuned . vertical launched missile have a hard time hitting anything close since then have to take a while to turn from vertical to the direction of target in a 2D battle.
Missile point defense only works with very special setup. (ie. Only works with projectile weapons w/wo burst. Beam weapons for some reason do not work at all. ) Only works now with defense frigate.

Maneuvering: Still early in process

All Cap ships have ~ the same top speed, what varrys is how fast they get to it and how fast they rotate :new:
Frigates use the corvette like fly around attack to attack larger ships. (works well, with turreted frigates)

Building cost and rate:
Resurch does not limit the prodution of Light cap ships. :new:

Electronic warfare/targeting and jamming framework:
Minor work: all sensors are shorter range, forceing the real need to use probes and scouts. Also there are more jammers. :new:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To keep things moving in a logical manner I want to work in phases.

Phase 1: Experiment phase. Changes to data files which will include adding new ships and changing some statistics (the same with Missiles and weapons). This will be done to feel out what can be done and to what extent.
Current work: Missile defense, ship/missile movement and new ships.
Phase 2: Game making phase. Systematically define and change data for Ships, weapons, icons, research to fit with model. (note. Without a model editor or a way to easily import and change existing models, all variants will use existing models for the time being). First level balance testing.
Phase 3: Balancing and art phase. Second level balance testing, Eye candy (FX) and art changes and Model updates (if possible)
Phase 4: Final balance testing. Eye candy, art changes and Model updates if needed. (Release)


Also Massive thanks to Greggy for his Great HODs, Alex Drake for the Dynamic fighters and Luke Moloney's Homeworld Classic Mod, updated by Mikail.
Big nod to Tel'Quessir, Alex Drake Varisfor weapon concept ideas.
And to any good person that posted here and offered support, help and ideas!


ANY DATA content in my MOD that can be used to help in other MODs can be freely used with out need for asking (just be kind and put me in your readme)

Note. I have not place to post MOD . .So, if anyone can host . . ;)

[Ta_erog]

Feel Free to comment, add 2 cents, offer help etc. . . :coffee:

[Homer Jr.]

Sounds very interesting. I like what you are trying to do and can't wait to see how it works out! I've had a lot of thoughts similar to yours and am happy to see someone trying to bring them to life.

Your changes to ship speeds, maneuverability, and acceleration sound great, especially reworking how frigates manuever during battle. Specialized units like the command destroyer, anti-missle defenses, and ECM are also superb ideas.

I don't know if you are interested in some more ideas to add to your mod, but I'll share some of mine with you anyway! (I might reiterate some of the points you've already highlighted . . . sorry) Maybe you'll find some of them interesting or mirroring what you already have in mind.

New ships too fill out the fleets (higgy only for now):
1. Fighter/Bomber - A heavy fighter that can fill both the anti-fighter and anti-capship roles. Not as good as the interceptor at killing fighters, but can engage capital ships with some degree of effectiveness. Slower than the interceptor but faster than a bomber, armed with the same weapon as an interceptor with a single plasma bomb launcher (the bomber has two, right?).

2. Module Frigate - A frigate with little offensive capability (maybe only a single turret or something), but has one module slot (hyperspace, grav well, fire control, etc.).

3. Light Destroyer - Similar to the current destroyer but 2/3 the size, faster, and less armor. Maybe only two heavy turrets instead of four, and some pulsar turrets rather than torpedos. Can be built without research at a capital ship facility (like carrier).

4. Cruiser (similar to yours, maybe?) - Supercapital ship to fill the void between a BC and DD. Less effective at killing large targets than a BC, but more effective at providing support against smaller targets. Size, speed, armor inbetween a DD and BC, with anti-capship firepower slightly more than a standard DD (three heavy turrets and two ICF sized ion cannons) and heavier anti-SC weaponry (4-6 pulsars, a few gunship turrets).

Other ideas to play around with:
1. Rename the battlecruiser to a battleship. Seems more appropriate to me!
2. I dont know if this is possible, but rework platforms so that instead of being movable objects, they are buildable weapon systems on the surface of the MS, carrier, or shipyard. These ships would have a certain number of weapons harpoints, on which a gun or ion (or missile) turret could be built. Eliminates annoying platform rushes and a player has the option of arming the MS significantly (which is something a lot of players seem to be wishing for).

*phew* That was a lot. Well, whether you like any of these ideas or not, I look forward to trying out your mod. Also, if you are interested, I've played a lot of RTSs and am familiar with a good deal of military history, technology, and strategy, and might make a good playtester for your mod. Let me know if you are interested.

Good work so far, and good luck!

[Ta_erog]

Homer Jr. - some good ideas here . . But remember until they get the editing of ships working better I will not include new or changed models.
I am in trouble shooting mode now. . if missile defenses do mot work right then it may have too be scraped, and if that happens then that changes allot of other things too. So I want to REALLY find out if it will really works before committing to it.
I also want to allow the player to make a full fleet (right up to a cruiser) at the start of the game with only RU stopping them (baring making the construction areas of course). But, the “extra” ships must be researched for. No more having to “unlock” bigger hulls to even attempt to make a fleet . . you can right away but you need to build and pay for them and only if you want the “better” versions you must unlock them.

Things I might need help with . . at least just a pointer to if someone has done it already.

•Beam weapons shooting missiles (projectiles and blasts work)
Missiles that detonate before hitting target. (and not only as a miss)
•Adding Flex weapon points or hard points for modules to existing ships. (Tried and failed on the DD)
•Location and controls to the auto leveling of ships (want to turn it off . . or at least see what it does do to the flight model)

[Alex Drake]

Sounds alot like the AFF TC, only minus the original universe. =p

Either way, its something that needs doing.

[Ta_erog]

Yes, it might . . allot of "expansion" MODs sound similar.
Though at this point I am keeping to functionality rather then art and modeling . . I have seen way too many MOD’s Fail or sputter out because they got too ambitious at the start or get bogged down making it look “cool” . . Look at all of FPS MODs rebuilding a handful of real weapons over and over and never really changing the game other then the eye-candy.

What I am trying to do (within limitations) is to expand the tactical game giving the player more options and thus more chances to use varying tactics . . with the least changes I can, so this MOD will can without art changes . . but I will leave the door open to them.. . (IE adding new hard points might be a high priority for me)

If you want to exchange data or experience I am game. . it is the only way we can get a good growing # of MODs for HW2 any time soon.

[Ta_erog]

I am adding all new weapon list to my MOD and puting it in the XLS spreadsheet for ease of use (this will be freely distributed if asked for)
Since it is rare to have custom weapons for each ship I made a weapon framework to cover common weapon in the fleet. These are rated from MKI-V and differentiated by class (ie, Kinetic, hyper Kinetic, heavy Kinetic, E-Pulse, E-Beam, Plasma, G-Missile, CAP-Missile, Mines . . plus specials like EMP, burst, Nuke etc . .)
This list ensures at least 60 different weapons just on the Hiigaran side alone and a much more constant gradient of weapons sizes and damage.

There will also be 2 versions: one with all weapons Bolth new and old and one with just the new (since the old is still in the BIG files)

Note . . the # of weapons is going up as I type since 99% of the weapons are gimble or turrent I am making generic gimble AND turrent versions of each . . there is also room for specials.
The real useability of this is to keep the weapon files more "static" and just change the guns installed on the ships . .
IE. if a ship is too powerfull (In balence its RU and build time, give it a lower MK# of the SAME weapon, and visa-versa)
Also you can state "Ah he has 2 MKII's Kinetics and a MK3 Ion . vs my 4 MKI's Kinetics and a MK2 Heavy Kinetic . . I need to get in closer to win"

I am still looking for a place to host . . . :mag:

[kurtdewolf]

I'm sure there are several other people other than me interested. It's just christmas season.....people are busy...(Know I am).


For a few weeks, I can't be of much help, but I'll try to stop in from time to time & give you an assist if you want one.
:santa: :clap:

[Ta_erog]

I understand . . I just saw so many viewings and 2 postings, not counting yours.

I am really trying to make a framework that people could use to make DATA mods easyer. . . and my mod allong with it . .

But anyway, thanks for the support!

[Aces]

your doing good bud... count me in on the interested list..

hes (shes?) right tho, busy time... or maybe people are just lazy.... damn lazy hobos... sounds good... i'm busy too.. gotta run (as a matter of fact)

good job bud...
keep it up
aces

[Ta_erog]

OK, progress 56 total ships . . . . mostly a fusion of both Vaygr and Hiigaran fleets plus more.
All variants have different prices, capabilities, and upgrades.

6 probes, 2 scouts, 4 fighters, 2 bombers, lots of corvettes and frigates, 2 platforms, 3 carriers, 3 DD, 2 cruisers, 1 BB and 1 DN.

Waiting for the OK for some HODs and working on research and other problems in the mean time.

Any one wants to host??

Problems:
Point defense, making this a new MP race, and filling in all the blanks . .
:jest:

[varis]

Great minds think alike :D

Ta: I've also noticed the lack of feedback, I think it's just that we all are busy with our little personal mod. Never had the time to properly test other mods and give good feedback, it's just play once, "whee cool mod I gotta copy that thing" and in comes the next mod... Maybe the feedback will come when you'll have a playable .big with marketing website to catch people's attention...

The EW, targeting and missile combat ideas sound very interesting, and also the maneuverability changes. My SNL Station mod already includes stealth, long-range missile combat and subsystems that aid in targeting or make it harder for the enemy. The assault frigate maneuvers like a corvette :-) What I'm missing would be some kind of a ECM system for craft, which would make missiles miss them... how would you do that? One could make a new attack class, but that would screw up other things... Could we script it in somehow?

You have lots of ships and weapons! Of course the systematic framework makes it easier to playbalance... How will you fit them into the build menus... people will have to scroll down a lot ;) Maybe you need a number of new families and different kinds of construction facilities?

What is the advantage of having a "missile" targeting class? I thought premature detonation was trivial to do, I haven't tried it myself though...

Will the ships be comparable in power to the standard Hiigaran and Vaygr forces? I usually play against Higgy with my ships, if the missile combat frameworks would be compatible we could even play head to head with our modded forces...

A reusable framework and free use of your stuff sounds very good. Look forward to seeing something familiar in my mod ;) You could put the Excel sheets in a separate documents&extras package.

Have you seen the dynamic capships mod from Alex? Alex is also willing to host mods, go to http://www.dendezyn.net/afforum/ and send him a PM. (Note that you get an error when you login to the site, just go to the main page again and you are in.)

Homer: I have a light destroyer, cruisers and buildable weapon systems in my mod. I don't like the idea of a module frigate though, it would add one more type of build capable ship and I already have too many. You could also run away with the frigate forever and a standard DM would never end...

[DarkFortuneXII]

Hey Man I’m interested… what you got here looks really interesting. I think you should continue your work I will be watching this topic.

[Ta_erog]

Ok some good work this weekend . . Ships mostly done and weapons 1/2 done . . :D will be posting MOD soon!

Here is a list of Ships in the FLEET MOD and a tentative description: (give comments)

Scout ECCM: Electronic warfare strike craft (acts as a scout and a jammer)
Scout: Normal scouts (light fighters with large sensor arrays)
Interceptor Light: Standard fast and cheap fighters (a single beam dog fighting weapon)
Interceptor Heavy: Space superiority fighters (fast and survivable, and with an additional missile weapon)
Fighter Defender: Very heavily armed defense fighter (Slow, armored with 2 beam and one missile weapons)
Fighter Lance: Anti ship fighter (Armed with a single kinetic weapon, it is the only fighter that can truly harm a larger ship)
Bomber Light: Light anti ship strike craft (Armed with Ani-Cap missiles, and a good reason for fighters)
Bomber Heavy: heavy anti ship strike craft (Armed with more Ani-Cap missiles, and the main reason for fighters)
Bomber Elite: left over/placeholder
Corvette Assault: Anti Cap/Util Corvette (Armed with a turreted kinetic weapon)
Corvette Assault Elite: A left over/placeholder
Corvette Multi-gun: Anti Fighter Corvette (Armed with multiple but weaker point defense beams)
Corvette Laser: Anti-Fighter and Corvette (A single more powerful laser)
Corvette Missile: Anti Cap/Util Corvette (Armed with missile weapons)
Corvette Pulsar: Stand off and multi role Corvette (Pulsar weapon can be used VS fighters, Corvettes and small Caps)
Corvette MinelayerV2: Minelayer with EMP Mines
Corvette MinelayerV1: Minelayer with Guided Mines
Corvette Command: Command and control Corvette (Integrates attacks adds to accuracy and efficiency. With good sensors)
WeaponPlatform_HKinetic: Heavy Kinetic weapon (can’t target smaller craft, deadly to CAP ships, shorter range)
WeaponPlatform_Ion: Long range Beam weapon (can’t target smaller craft, problematic to CAP ships, long range)
WeaponPlatform_Kinetic: Kinetic weapon (can’t target Strike craft, shorter range)
WeaponPlatform_missile: Missile weapon (longer range, various missile types)
Frigate Flack: Anti Fighter/Corvette (Explosive flack shells devastate unarmored craft)
Frigate Ion: Stand off precision Anti Cap/Util (long range but lower damage beam weapons)
Frigate Kinetic: Anti Cap/Util (Heavy kinetic weapon, inaccurate and shorter range but high damage)
Frigate Torpedo: Anti Cap/Util (Heavy Torps/Missile can only attack larger Caps, possible special attack)
Frigate Defense: Anti Fighter/Corvette/Missile (main missile defense ship) (this is a test ship may be integrated)
Frigate Infiltrator: Capture ship (launches boarding parties in pods)
Frigate Assault: Multi role Frigate (has various weapons)
Frigate Missile: [/B]Anti Cap/Util (Medium Missiles with possible special attack)
Frigate Barrier: Generates a defensive barrier (this ship has simple strike craft defense)
Frigate Marine: Capture ship (may turn into a repair ship)
Destroyer Heavy: [/B]Heavy armored Destroyer (Slower, Has mostly Anti Cap weapons)
Destroyer Light: Escort Destroyer (fast, and can handle a small # of strike craft or Frigates)
Destroyer Missile: Missile Variant (uses missiles for bombardment)
Resource Collector V2: Resource Collector/repair craft (added benefit adds to price)
Resource Collector V1: Fast cheap Resource Collector (fast but with smaller hold)
Resource Controller V2: Advanced Resource Controller (Better defenses) (builds utils??)
Resource Controller V1: Standard Resource Controller (minor defenses)
Mothership: Mothership (may be replaced by a jump gate)
Cruiser Light: Larger version of the light DD (fast, less armor and defensive)
Cruiser Heavy: Larger version of the Heavy DD (Slower, more armor and offensive)
BattleShip: Heavy and balanced ship (can hold its own in any situation)
SuperDreadnaught: Ultimate CAP ship (a big gun, all offence)
Carrier Light: Cheap and limited Carrier (fast and lightly armored, minimum production capabilities)
Carrier Heavy: Expensive and full featured Carrier (medium armored, full production capabilities)
Carrier Strike: Heavy Carrier (Built to be brought into combat, heavy armor and defense, minimum production capabilities)
Shipyard: Large production platform (minimum mobility maximum production capabilities)
Shipyard Mobile: Large Mobile production platform (better mobility and slower production capabilities) (mega carrier?)
HyperSpace_Platform: Mini gates (defenseless and easy to spot)
HyperSpace_Inhibitor: Massive jammer (will jam all radar and jumping)
Probe MKI: Small probe (very cheap, fair range, can be fooled by cloaking)
Probe MKII: Enhanced probe (great range, can be fooled by cloaking)
Probe_ECCM MKI: Jamming probe (basic sensor Jammer)
Probe_ECCM MKII: Enhanced Jamming probe (larger area sensor Jammer)
Probe_Prox MKI: Advanced probe (good range, can detect cloaking)
Probe_Prox MKII: Very Advanced probe (great range, can detect cloaking)

These work . . but some still need a bit of additional work

[Homer Jr.]

Sounds great! I'm looking forward to trying your mod out once it is released!

[varis]

Repair ship/support frigate based on the marine frigate - now that could be a nice concept!

What is the heavy destroyer going to be like? Offensive, big gun?

[Ta_erog]

So far The Heavy DD is Anti Cap ship. meaning that is has minimal or no strike ship defense and almost all Kinetic / Plasma weapons.

Remember, I made Kinetic very damaging, but also poor accuracy (same with the plasma).
So this ship will set up for a good broadside and fire its big heavy projectiles at the target . .
This looks rather sweet because the shots scatter a bit and (depending on the target) a good amount miss and go whizzing by the target . . .the ones that hit really do lots of damage . . But they must close in to do the big damage allowing the other stand off ships to hit them on the way in.

Also note that I am putting allot more restrictions on what weapons can be fired at what . .
Ie. Fighters CAN’T fire at Cap ships . . at all . . . (think of a F14 . . it is never going to attack a ship, the F18’s are for that)
So, most (all but the very smallest kinetic weapons) will ever be shot at fighters (too short range and inaccurate) . . you must use Beams for them.
Beams will tend to be longer range and very accurate . . the big ones will be used for taking out subsystems and the small vs fighters.
Mega size beams will still do allot of damage (ie the dreadnought) at least for now but will be restricted.
Missiles will be long ranged and of variable sizes but can be shot down.

[Ta_erog]

"Repair ship/support frigate based on the marine frigate - now that could be a nice concept!"

I was thinking to use the normal Resource Collector's repair "docking" to simulate it. (really I just thought of it while makeing the list :) )

One of my main goles is to make it so you don't have to rely on one ship per role. So simular ships exist in different sizes with simular roles.

[YellowKnife]

This sounds awesome..
I only loosly skimmed through your detailed list but says you had a private release?
How long till a public beta...I could help if ya want...PLS:headset:

[YellowKnife]

o yeah is this expanded Higaran and VAygr or is it a new race kinda thing.


SOunds coolnone the less

[Ta_erog]

Yes, a Private Release is for me and the people helping me test it (at the moment really just a few LAN parties), I have really just entered phase 2.

I am hopeing to get it out this weekend . . in a basicly playable form (the new weapons really changed things)

I will be also releasing the xls files that where used for make the ships . . . (for public consumption).

After this initial release I will be moving into phase 2/3 . . balancing and tweaking must me done. At the moment the new weapon systems assigned to the ships are rather “best guess” (note that ALL weapon systems have 5 different “flavors” MKI-MKV and Turret and Gimble versions) So, I do not have to worry about having to make “custom” weapons for each ship or have all “one ship only” weapons . . (Though there will be some) . . If a ship is too weak just upgrade the weapon from MKII to MKIII or change it out entirely if you need a different strength.

I am working toward forcing the need for a fleet and not just the uber ship (ALL ship classes can be built immediately, so a fleet can be made immediately) . .and better versions of some ships are unlocked later when needed tech is researched.
Also I am working on making some research class based (Ex. Armor research: add armor to ALL frigates) and also singleton optional ones like a slight addition to say a Light DD to make it even slightly faster then the “common upgrade” would. Most upgrades will cost less but have more levels that have smaller steps.

[Ta_erog]

YellowKnife
Well right now with only minor capability to HOD . . This New race is essentially using all of the Hiigaran and Vaygr models plus a few more. . BUT none of the Ship files or weapons of the original game.

IF I can figure out how to get a Total new race to work in MP (ie a NEW prefix race like Flt_Scout etc. . ) I will do that . .but till then it overrides the Hiigaran at the time being (I might be able to get the Hiigaran side to play too since 99% of my ships have different names, Just need to change the Mothership) . . But since the weapons are also so different . . it is best for bolth sides to use the new "race"

In fact that IS what some one could do for me . . remake the plain Hiigaran and Vaygr ships with the new weapons Then you could have two more small Handycapped but funtional fleets ..

[Ta_erog]

"Repair ship/support frigate based on the marine frigate -"

Man that was easy . :idea: . it docks and repairs 3x times as fast . . the great part is that is also (like normal) restricts the movement of the ship is it attached to . .


Working on the building AI right now . .

[varis]

Can't wait to test it myself :-) At first it sounded like it had many same ideas as SNL Station, even some of the ship concepts sound like exact twins, however it seems the implementation will be quite different... more variety is good :-) For example you have all ship types in the beginning, for me I decided one needs to research even fighters to get them in... not to mention all the tons of research tree you need to go through to get the better ships in each category/subtree.

The weapon framework could be something that would have a future as a separate mod / modmaking framework.

[Ta_erog]

Thanks,

The weapon framework it taking allot of work but should be worth it.
The main problem here is that the ships really don’t have “standard” mounts . . so, Some ships have minor problems with my standardized weapon mounts (Their Art of Model building took precedence)

But these problems are minor and “custom” weapons can be made if needed. Really if the nameing nomenclature stays the same then it will be very easy to update (IE just copy a few parameters)

I am really going to need help balancing this because I am starting from zero.

The Beam fights the fighters have are rather cool . . and should be rather easy on the CPU as a side benefit.

[varis]

It just occured to me that you are using Excel because you want to create the weapon files programmatically. I discovered this right after I came up with the idea of making the framework with a "real" programming language, such as Python :-) You can just edit a single parameter and the weapons of the entire framework will be recalculated.

This can't be done with Excel, not very easily at least, I'd think... but a competent scripter could make the weapons to be installed on the ships programmatically as well. Or if the ships belong to a similar balancing framework... dunno if Relic folks already used this approach.

Now if you have trouble finding stuff to do for your freetime: make a web engine where the modder can input those few weapon parameters, and the engine will provide the entire weapons framework as a downloadable package ;)

[Tel'Quessir]

"Repair ship/support frigate based on the marine frigate -"


Yours actually does dock, wheras mine is a piece of hacked .ship file coupled with total overhaul of healthregenerationrates of all ships "serviceable", might I perchance take a look? :)

[Ta_erog]

Yup, no problem . . . it is painfully easy . .

just add

addAbility(NewShipType,"RepairCommand",0,500,9,{
SuperCap = "18",
},{
Flagship = "18",
})


ability active by default: 0 to 1
distance from target: 500 to something much lower -50
rate of repair: 9 to 3x or more
family specific repair: Flagship = "18" to 3x or more
family specific repair: Flagship = "18" to 3x or more

and dont forget to remove the capture abbility ..

[Ta_erog]

Ok, I will try to post this MOD this weekend. one way or the other . . . ;) (will post location).

I will really need help with weapon balancing . . so like I said before the xls sheets will be in this MOD and you can play with them . . . if you find settings that work good or have ideas be sure to let me know! I have some basic guidelines that I want to follow but I really need your input!

Also some Ship setting might also need to be changed too . . so that is in there also . . (ie for balancing, it might make sense to make the "bombers" release there weapons farther away so they stay in point-defense range for less time and thus become more survivable, or X ship needs a point-defense removed or a CAP weapon added or visa-versa, etc etc )

[Grey_Ghost]

Originally posted by Ta_erog
Frigates use the corvette like fly around attack to attack larger ships. (works well, with turreted frigates)


Sure would be nice if someone would make a model out of this concept (http://well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hws/hw2/images/display.htm?concept_frigate_rough.jpg) to replace the current Ion Firgate, and let the general modding community use it. I feel it fits in perfectly with that large turret. At least it feels evolutionary for the ICF IMHO.


Also note that I am putting allot more restrictions on what weapons can be fired at what . .
Ie. Fighters CAN’T fire at Cap ships . . at all . . . (think of a F14 . . it is never going to attack a ship, the F18’s are for that)
So, most (all but the very smallest kinetic weapons) will ever be shot at fighters (too short range and inaccurate) . . you must use Beams for them.


I tried this with my own mod and it was a big failure on my part. If you tell a ship to attack another ship they have no weaponry to attack, they will attack it anyway. Basically flying around it doing nothing (and they will need a flyby script, otherwise they use the default which usually has them bumping all over it surface).

The big problem with this depends on how the attack is issued. If told to directly attack or in a band box they will utimately focus on a ship they cannot attack and do nothing but fly around it in utter futility. However, if given a Move Attack order (ctrl-a default?) They will perform very effeciently. They will end up doing the meaningless flyby of ships they can't attack, but as soon as a ship they can attack enters their range they will break off to engage it. Though even this has a problem where those ships will leave the main battle and chase down a lonely scout to the other side of the map. I've tried weighting find new target, but they usually move out of range too fast.

Maybe some heavy AI hacking can fix the worst case scenario (directly ordered), but I really don't know if it can be changed at all. You'll probably want to do some custon flyby scripts so you could at least keep them circling farther away then normal if you wanted.

Also in the simplest of modifications with only the HGN Interceptors gun giving a zero accuracy against CAP ships, with no other changes I had a odd recurring crash bug. With six Int's and 6 Bombers in a Fighter screen strike group, making an approach on an enemy carrier the game would crash to the desktop. It only occured if I gave them a direct attack order, or when given a move attack order with the carrier being the only target in range. Something was going wrong at the height of the attack run. I don't remember if I ever found a way around it.

I gave up on my mod cause I never could get the Tools to work, and therefore never did see the core AI files. The fact that the ships would still attack ships they weren't supposed to defeated the purpose of my mod anyhow.

Good Luck,

Grey_Ghost :crazy:

[Ta_erog]

Really this is not a problem take the CAP ships out of the fighters SHIP file . .

This is MUCH better then messing around with the weapons.

[Grey_Ghost]

Are you talking about CanAttack? Removing any reference to CAP ships there never did anything for me, but make them use that first Flyby script which usually had them ramming Carriers and such.

Grey_Ghost :crazy:

[Ta_erog]

Well, yes and no . .
Like everything there is no simple one shot answer . .

What I tend to do is to try to make everything an exeption . . Then you can control it . . and/OR have the "defalt" CanAttack a "keep away" script . .

So, with every exeption you simply set the behavior you want . . or if you need to lump a few together use the defalt.

Somthing like this . . . will actively fight Strikecraft and utility but keep a "safe" distance from everything else (the targeted ship if there is no Strikecraft to fight)

addAbility(NewShipType,"CanAttack",1,5,1,0,0.35,1,"Fighter, Corvette, Frigate, Utility, SmallCapitalShip, BigCapitalShip, Mothership","Keep_away",{
Fighter = "Dogfight",
},{
Corvette = "Dogfight",
},{
Utility = "Flyby_Interceptor_vs_ResourceLarge",
})

[Ta_erog]

First list of weapons . . . Most are operational (most need balancing).
The missiles are still being worked on . .
I used 5 different versions of each weapon (since weapon files are “cheap” and spreadsheet editing is easy) to allow a wide range of weapons strengths to play with. (a side benefit is that changing a weapon will not effect other ships, ie no need to edit the weapon you just use a different one.)

Key:
1) MK# = Relative strength of weapon (IE a MKI is weaker then a MKV weapon of the same type)
2) T or G = Turret or Gimble mount (So far I have generic stats for angles and tracking speeds)

So, to read this list below . . Pulse weapon has 5 strength variants and also both Turret and Gimble mounts. This ends up with 10 different weapon files.

LZBeam MKI-MKV / T and G – “laser” or really any small beam weapon, Main weapon for fighters and anti-fighter. Fast accurate, but low damage and only effective vs. non armored craft.

Pulse MKI-MKV / T and G – A more powerful weapon designed to punch through light armor. Effective VS Corvettes and utility craft and can be used vs Fighters and frigates with less efficiency.

IONBeam MKI-MKV / T and G – Larger Beam weapon, sports long range good accuracy and medium damage. Effective VS Capitol ships of all sizes best used as a stand off weapon.

Kinetic MKI-MKV / T and G – Fires hunks of dense matter at high velocity. Kinetic weapons do massive damage to all craft, unfortunately do to there relatively slow speed they are inaccurate. Smaller craft are all but impossible to hit and long ranged shots at moving ships are not useful (note since HW2 does not have a range modifier the max range of these weapons is used to show the inherent inaccurately, even though a long shot at a immobile ship would be normally possible)

HyperKinetic MKI-MKV / T and G – Smaller but more numerous projectiles. An attempt to increase the chance to hit with Kinetic projectiles. This also has the effect of lowering overall penetration and damage.

HeavyKinetic MKI-MKV / T and G – Larger projectiles. The Main weapon for Large Capitol ship knife fights . . very deadly for any ship due to the massive damage possible. These weapons can only be mounted on large ships and fire slowly.

Plasma MKI-MKV / T and G – An energy/projectile combo with fair range, accuracy and damage with the side perk of doing extra disabling damage. (Very middle of the road Cap weapon)

BurstCannon MKI-MKV / T and G – Explosive shell projectiles allow an area attack that is best ageist small unarmored craft and missiles defense.

Burst MKI-MKV – The “explosion” for the BurstCannon above.

MinelayerNuke MKI - Large powerful detonations with high possibility of disabling craft.

MinelayerExplosive MKI – Small charges that do hull damage.

Ftr_Missile MKI-MKII – Very small and fast missile. Effective VS small craft only.

Ftr_Burst MKI-MKII - The “explosion” for the Ftr_Missile above. If it misses it detonates with shrapnel.

Mini-Missile MKI-MKV / T and G – Non-fighter missile with wider capabilities and better homing. Effective VS all craft but due to low damage yield better vs smaller craft

ClusterMissile MKI-MKV / T and G – A single multi-missile head packed with multiple Mini-Missiles. This makes shooting down these missiles harder.

MediumMissile MKI-MKV / T and G – A standard armor piercing anti-capitol missile (some might call a torpedo). Too big to be effective vs small craft and frigates may have a good chance to dodge.

NukeMissile MKI-MKV / T and G – Large blast missile with powerful detonations and high possibility of disabling craft.

NukeBurst MKI-MKV - The “explosion” for the NukeMissile above.

[Ta_erog]

Drat! :coffee:
I broke my build and have to back track to find the problem (the dumps are not very helpfull)
So, my First Beta Release is delayed a day or untill if find my error . . :weep:

Anyway, the Beta is playable BUT just . . the research is there but spotty and the weapons need allot of work.
I will be encluding the xls files for people to play with too.

[Grey_Ghost]

My point was (using your example) if issued an order to attack (right click) or a band box attack (ctrl-drag mouse) they would just keep running the Keep_Away script and would not engage anything else on their own. However with move attack (ctrl-a?) they would seek other targets when they came into range.

I am a little scatterbrained, so it is possible issuing a band box attack doesn't end up locking them into this behavior. However I am fairly certain it did, and I tested it constantly and consistently at the time. Maybe there is something special about your Keep_Away type scripts that make them different from mine. I know I tried everything I could think of.

Good luck, I am really looking forward to your mod.

Grey_Ghost :crazy:

[Midgetus]

Hmmm. if your idea of heavy cruisers involves HeavyKinetic MKV broadsides, I think I may be drawn away from Tel'Quessir's excellent PDS mod. Of course, a combination of the two mods would be infinitely awesome... But I'll still be downlaoding your beta as soon as its available, even if you and Tel do not see the light. You're doing such similar things, excpet for the modular weapons, which I think fit in with the idea of giving the player more options in any situation. I do hate having only one or two possible counters to an enemy fleet, so that they can know which units to counter my counter with in advance.

[Ta_erog]

Yes, Tel'Quessir's excellent PDS mod is excellent! :beer:
But I really don't see our MODs as that close . . Similar in what was changed (we can't help that) but not similar in how it was changed. . . he made faster firing default weapons and some really nice new ones. I made 95% new ones. He changed the default ships a bit and added some nice new ones that fit in. I combined both sides to make a full sized fleet, added some more and totally changed movement stats and all weapons. (that is one reason my MOD is taking so long ;) )
So my MOD ends up being more of a total conversion with ships, weapons, research etc totally changed not just modified (but so far without changing the basic Models, at least for now)

Modular weapons? I know he has just a few . . but I have none! If I understand you, you might have gotten my large # of possible weapons to be used for Balancing or even upgrades mixed up with Modular . . ie different weapons can't be picked in my MOD (but they ARE there if said weapon is too strong or weak and easily changed)

Grey__Ghost
You know, you may be right in some cases I have not tryied all of combinations.

BUT Keep_Away script as most (but not all) attack "scripts" they do/can check for alternate targets. So they sould not stay that way.
I will keep a look out for that . . . thanks.


Are you bolth ready to help me balence the MOD?? :)

[varis]

TA: Playtesting a mod is very important, so IMO modders should stick together and help each other out. IF I have time, I'd like to playtest it at some point too, for two reasons: 1) it's free - anything you see you can use yourself 2) if I want my mod to be really playable, I'll need to go through the play balancing quagmire myself as well, so maybe I could learn something from your pitfalls and successes...

Will there be dramatic differences in ranges? Or different coloured beams (there's the ion beam colour pack)? Any new stationary units? I've been experimenting with those...

[Ta_erog]

Yes, I would love some playtesters!
And if needed I will trade time with play testing yours to get an outside opinion.

Longer ranges . . well they should be . . still in the works really fine tuning is in need.
Different beams . .yes each class of beams has a different look . . . and remember, Beams are mostly point defense now. (except for the really big beams, which are still less damage then the Heavy kinetics but have the opportunity to hit first.

(hopefully tonight I finish the release) :salute:

[YellowKnife]

so beta tonight........ :ninja: SWEET

[Tel'Quessir]

But I really don't see our MODs as that close . . Similar in what was changed (we can't help that) but not similar in how it was changed. . . he made faster firing default weapons and some really nice new ones. I made 95% new ones. He changed the default ships a bit and added some nice new ones that fit in. I combined both sides to make a full sized fleet, added some more and totally changed movement stats and all weapons. (that is one reason my MOD is taking so long )


*growls and bites*
*dispels polymorph*

Yes, you said it very aptly. The hidden agenda under all my readme files is that gameplay is totally unchanged from that of stock HW2 - because it is HW2, and that yours is a total conversion and mine a total overhaul. LOL.

I would like to betatest your work, but unfortunately I need to be somehow made bored from playing my own work. :)

[Midgetus]

No misunderstanding on your weapon types. They're meant to simulate the fact that ships in the same navy, even if not the exact same model of ship, will probably share some of the same weapons systems(if not necessarily in the same quantity or location on every type of ship) rather than having totally unique armaments created for each and every class of vessel.

What I meant by similarity is that both mods apaprently seek to flesh out the semignly small and limited fleets (or fleet, in the case of fleet engagement) by adding ships and abilities that add to the game without fully replacing or making obsolete the games original features. Both mods seek to model ECM/electronic warfare in some form, as well as field repair provided by semi-combat vessels rather than defenseless resource colectors. Both mods seem to have based their fleet changes on a cross between WWII and coldwar-modern combat fleets. I acknowledge that the two mods are not identical in scope, style or purpose, but i also note the similarities. In particular, I wonder what kind of gameplay experience would result if the two mod concepts were combined into a single concept or even merely borrowed greatly from each other (some of which seems to have already begun, and in a good way). This is partly because my vision of the perfect RTS is close to what I think such a combination would yield. without further ado, the Perfect Homeworld Game

1 some subtle hints of realism to help us forget that this is a game. examples(most things humans build will cease to function long before they are completely obliterated; anything not totally destroyed can often eventually be repaired and rebuilt; fancy electronics and technology is always vulnerable to failure under duress; it is possible for a little ship to meet a bigger ship and not get obliterated, with the use of intelligent tactics.)

2 WWII naval battles (the carrier is truly invaluable, but the battleship is still a mighty weapon in its own right. an ffective taskforce could center around either or both; massive fighter raids, big-gun broadsides, hit-and-run torpedo volleys, etc; lots of pretty tracers flying around during fighter acrion near warships)

3 coldwar/modern naval technology (high-tech guided missile-based warships, advanced fighterbombers, interceptors, dedicated LRdetection/Ewarfare craft, the improtance of recon over nearly all else, missiles, missiles, missiles of all kinds)

4 and lastly, some of the basic concepts of anime space combat (lots of uberfast fighters/giant robots/uberfast fighters that are also giant robots; even more missiles than anything else; lots of tracers (as in WWII); fancy, powerful beam weapons(not just for electronics-frying); battlecariers; purty explosions all over the place, even when nobody's even been hit yet)

Basically, when I saw the outline Ta has laid down, only minutes after finishing yet another game of PDS (I don't even care about stock HW2 anymore) I fantasized about what would happen if the best ideas were taken from both, hence my not entirely cosidered post, followed now by a freaking huge essay I didn't expect to write, because I assumed other people saw things my way. Anyway, I think I explained everything I meant to say.

[varis]

Response to Midgetus.

Hmm, I see there's similarities and differencies between Fleet engagement, PDS and SNL Station. (Wonder if we should list other mods beside them, maybe AFF?)

Hmm replacing features... Uh, I think at least FE and SNLS do that, most ships are replaced, with new weapons etc. PDS seems more like to build on the existing game, just a few ship additions... But as you start to scratch the surface, you notice there are more underlying differences in PDS, like everything seems to do huge amounts of EMP damage, half the frigates end up disabled... (One could argue it's more realistic, and a nice personal twist IMO... at least that makes EMP shields matter!)

What kind of electronic warfare is there in PDS? So far I played it only once, think it had some kind of EW modules but what exactly do they do? "Field repair provided by semi-combat vessels" - I guess my supply cruiser is the concept on steroids. I could had it build and launch repair drones, but I'm making it non-build capable for my mod, so maybe I'll need to reincarnate the concept into some other mod on a later day ;)

I think you are right, both FE and PDS take real world military history as their inspiration, while for example SNLS focuses more on sci-fi fantasy (Space15k-like) and gaming aspects.

Combining mods? I think one could perhaps mix the mods so that you can install them on top of one another... see what happens. I noticed that TA was replacing the Hiigaran in his FE and I had been building on top of Vaygr so who knows... ;) The combination will take place on another levels, too.

I think these mods represent a different generation, PDS is a 1st generation mod of HW2, it has been out for a while and is quite mature. SNLS on the other hand has just reached alpha and FE is going beta right here, these would count as 2nd generation mods. However, the 3rd generation of mods will be pretty interesting to see, I think. People who are now putting out their first mod will learn from their experiences and from seeing how the mods of their buddies turned out. Maybe they will just continue on their existing mod, but I would expect people to recycle, swap and mix their materials, combining the good ideas from previous mods, even joining into the same team and so on. They will be working on their 2nd HW2 mod, so they will know how to do things right, and the design and implementation can be superb. (Hopefully they will be able to select the right teammates too.)

I think with 3rd generation mods there will also be some of those juicy total conversions out as well. I don't think most of them will ever finish, but some probably will, and they might be interesting indeed. But I agree, it's about making the perfect HW2, filling in where the original left us wanting. Though just adding variety and a chance to experiment with new ideas is very important IMO, as well. Very good mods can even inspire game developers when they start working on the next sequel.

About those 4 points:

1. Sounds good, how would you do it? EMP damage from all weapons?

2. You have a point about carriers. My understanding of latter 20th century naval warfare is that the battleship had become dwarfed by the carrier. But this is not properly reflected in HW2. The battlecruisers and destroyers are the key units in winning the game, while carriers take a secondary support role as vulnerable craft that is even used in mining operations.

It could be a viable endeavor to try to make the carrier the central vessel in the fleet. For example, in SNLS I made most cruisers provide no docking to small craft at all. However, there's all kinds of support units with a docking bay, so this idea is watered down... maybe I could edit shipholds, repair speeds, and the like. The list of things we could do about carriers is long...

3. SNLS implements some EW concepts, but I think we'll need a good bit of play experience with these units before we really understand what we could do and how we should do it. There are units with very long scanning range, and units which can detect cloaked craft.

The Vulture in SNLS is the central EW craft, provides fairly strong cloaking over a smallish radius to itself and all friendly craft. I originally visioned it as a stealthy strike fighter, but I think this is actually more useful for scouting, kind of nice to keep tabs on enemy without them noticing. However, the primary use could be to provide cloaking to more powerful non-stealth craft, say attack corvettes or frigates. As the game also has hyperspacing for stealthy attacks, I haven't seen this tactic employed in any context, though... But the playtesting is just about beginning, and humans do get creative when they try and beat other humans.

One idea we could experiment with is a radar/scanner jammer craft. It would halve the primary and secondary sensor range of all enemy craft in a given radius. Hmm... ok that will be a new subsystem in the next release of SNLS I think, at least for the carrier :-)

How do you make recon more important? With stealth and reduced sensor ranges? Hyperspace inhibitors on steroids? Maybe new gamerules like Tel already suggested? The deathmatch maybe isn't that realistic a scenario...

4. Hmm some nice anime like Crest of the Stars can be pretty interesting to fleet tacticians, but do these concepts really fit in? They are the exact opposite of realism :-) I'm trying to add some weapons with big explosions, just for having nice big explosions, but one should not sacrifice things like play balance or the general feel of the mod. It might not fit in with TA or PDS, now would it? One would ask: Is it possible to make such a weapon - would it be effective? What would it be used for?

Another .02 credits :-)

[Ta_erog]

Originally posted by Tel'Quessir
Yes, you said it very aptly. The hidden agenda under all my readme files is that gameplay is totally unchanged from that of stock HW2 - because it is HW2, and that yours is a total conversion and mine a total overhaul. LOL.


:rofl: Exactly!!

[Ta_erog]

Also note people that my MOD is OPEN source (minus the HODs I am using) . . You can DO anything you want with it! Feel free to take what you want or modify it the way you want (even use it as a basis for your mod if it will help) :heyhey:

PS. I am going to upload the beta today . . . I will notify (I had to hack out some “testing” code that was making some instability) . . also note it IS a beta and has some really bad unbalanced and missing parts. :juggle:

[Ta_erog]

Here you go! have at it!! :banana:

Release (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23552)

[varis]

There is great evil here...

Ship mobility is revolutionized. Even big ships like carriers have agility and great speeds (over 200). Also weapons seem to do huge damage, a group of 8 corvette squadrons can take out a carrier in maybe 10-20 seconds. This makes the mod very fast-paced and action packed, especially combined with the fact that you can build most units right in the start. A total opposite of SNL Station then, as that mod actually makes the game more slower/strategical. Fleet engagement will be probably liked by many who thought the original game was too slow-paced.

A mod that introduces many new units faces some problems, one of them being player comprehension. Are some units the same as in the original? Which have been changed and how? What does each unit do? A one-line description for each ship in the ingame menus would be a welcome addition, would make easier to play and also to track the progress of the mod. We could develop some common conventions here, for example ships that are experimental/recently added could just have "TESTING" for their description field.

The AI seems to build units well enough to give trouble to any FE novice.

There is some serious problem with frigates. I was able to launch only one at a time from the MS, and also that didn't move anywhere...

[Ta_erog]

"Are some units the same as in the original? Which have been changed and how? What does each unit do? :!: "
:dolt: READ the readme ;)
Then Check the FleetDocumentation/Ship-weaponList.htm file it has a mainly acurate list of all ships and weapons with descriptions.
In fact IF you want to fix the in game descriptions of the ships I would like that . . but it can't really be that high a priority for me till the game play gets fixed up more.

Also, This game is to be played on BIG maps (oops for got to put that in :) ) The speed become less of an issue and sensors more of one.


"We could develop some common conventions here, for example ships that are experimental/recently added could just have "TESTING" for their description field."
Thats a good idea.

"The AI seems to build units well enough to give trouble to any FE novice."
really? Note the Vaygr side ONLY has a minor change to it, but if the Hiigaran side is giveing you trubble and building ships I fixed something . .

"There is some serious problem with frigates. I was able to launch only one at a time from the MS, and also that didn't move anywhere..."
Funny I never had a problem with this. Since I made it so the frigates can dock they worked fine. Though they only are able to launch only one at a time from the MS . . I found that normal just like building.

"and also that didn't move anywhere..."
That is a bigger problem that I found only once when I was too close to a resorce patch. if that is the case it will also happen in the normal game, if not give me more info in it.

:here: Also Check the FleetDocumentation dir for the xls files!!! that will allow you to modify all my ships easally and if you find a good setting . . . make it easyer to send me the fix!

[Sarcastro]

I've been enjoying this mod very much! Thanks. I really like how the grigates use the corvette circling attack style vs. larger ships. They're much more mobile now, and don't just sit there waiting for huge destroyer torpedos to slam into them.

One thing though-- I can't get the kinetic frigate to fire at anything. I played around in the ship file and notcied it doesn't target small capships, but does target large ones? I think that's what I read. Anyway I haven't seen it shoot at anything yet; maybe the right targets just haven't been present.

Keep this mod rolling!

[Jewegee]

ok...I'm going to try and make this organized for convinience.

Things I like:
-Variation in units
-beams on figthers
-Kinetic Frig.
-Support frig
(thats basically all I had time to see)


Things that you might want to change:
-certain ship classes only able to attack certain other classes...although this makes sense, IMHO, you should just make the ships do reduced damage. (Theoretically, enough scouts attacking for long enough would be able to kill a MS)--> no ultra specific units that can only kill one type
-Ion Cannon firing sound on the Kinetic Frig
-Ship descrips on the build menu
-I take it this is a compilation mod...are you going to make this a new race or just an add on?


if you need another playtester btw, I'm here. Overall this is a GREAT mod!! Keep up the good work!

[Ta_erog]

Jewegee and Sarcastro
Thanks, I am glad some are looking at it! And enjoyed a taste of what I am trying to do.

I should have a new version (lots of updates) today/tomorrow.
-lots of fixes to the weapons
-Kinetic weapon bugs fixed
-2x the range for all weapons
-Some ship descriptions (working on it)
-Some frigates come in pairs (trying this out)
-Fighters will now try to keep away from ships that they can’t attack
-Cap ship “hull defense weapons” fixed.
-Added Rule file to help with testing (from varis)
-Changed attack stiles

Things to fix:
-Bombers are not done at all (and rather useless)
-Missiles need allot of work
-Defender does not use all weapons
-All sorts of sound and FX problems (low priority)

Things to add:
-Need to add hyperspace beacon (to build defense bases)
-Ship descriptions on the build menu
-Research is still rather basic
-Cap missile cruiser



“-certain ship classes only able to attack certain other classes...although this makes sense, IMHO, you should just make the ships do reduced damage. (Theoretically, enough scouts attacking for long enough would be able to kill a MS)--> no ultra specific units that can only kill one type”
Well, that is one thing I am not going to fix unless there are problems with game play (ie fighters not keeping away from craft they can’t damage).
The reason for this is that they are simply interceptors . . . you will never see a F14 attack a ship and if they did no amount of them would sink it. They leave that to the attack fighters. In FE there are 3 attack fighters . 2 “bombers” and the lance fighter (which should be renamed) The Bombers will fire stand off missiles and the Lance will be kinda like a A-10 (how big a gun can we fit in this craft?) all three are defenseless vs fighters so need to be protected, and can be deadly VS CAPs if used in mass.

“-I take it this is a compilation mod...are you going to make this a new race or just an add on?”
Compilation mod? Well, ALL of the weapons are entirely different as are the way the ships use them the only similarity are the models which I have little control over at this time and some of the names which should be changed but is low priority. So, not really a Completion . . but having said that I will use other peoples ideas if they fit my framework.
Also unfortunately till more work is done with adding true new races (as in new prefixes) this will stay as a Hiigaran overlay (also the AI only works for Hiigaran and Vaygr races and that’s it)


"if you need another playtester btw, I'm here."
Are you kidding???? Hell yes!! :clap:

[varis]

TA you up for gaming right now? Need to get SNL Station tested too :-) Man we should organize a regular framework for mod play testing...

Nice to see that people can put my stuff to good use! That's why it's out there :-)

Modding isn't only modelling... and lots of mods loan stuff from others, we are currently undersupplied in the way of ship models, any new will get used.

[Ta_erog]

New Update :new: FleetMOD52 :new:

Sorry it is still a ZIP I had some problems makeing a working Big.

[wookieman]

damn your reworkings of the single player levels!

Taddis sabah has 1000 assault craft with lasers at the "weak point" in the defences.

lots of them are hard to kill.

[Ta_erog]

What??? I did nothing to Single player mode and it probbably should not be played in Single player mode due to tech changes.

So, with that in mind what . . are you talking about?

[ÜberJumper]

Sounds like it's the reactive fleet going crazy.

[wookieman]

I played the thadis sabah level (the one where you have to rescue the marine frigate) and there are thousands of vaygar fighters from makaans personal guard.

[Ta_erog]

Right, I am not supprissed . . This is a muti-player MOD . . thought is does work mostly with CPU skirmish . .

It is not inteded to be played with Single player . . and I am very supprised that it runs at all in Single player . .

[Ta_erog]

OK, got the "fleetmod.grm1" working . . I have no idea what happened before . .(probbably a typeo)


Anyway . . if people are playing the Fleet engagement mod PLEASE tell me what you like and don't like of it . . It really helps.

[wookieman]

don't like super corvettes!

what's the point in trying to get a BC when you have a fleet of powerful, fast and heavly armoured strike craft that can shred a BC in a few seconds.

They are like space piranas!

:rant:

[Ta_erog]

Please if you are going to comment do so in a intelligent, descriptive and precise manor . .

“don't like super corvettes!” - wookieman

Is not very useful at all. - - my translation “one of the 8 corvettes are too powerful?” and “they kill BC in a few seconds”
Luckily I do know what you are talking about since others have described the problem much better. (PS. There are NO battle cruisers in FE. (Are you talking about the light cruiser, Heavy cruiser, battleship or dreadnought?? They are VERY different)

Much better to say the “Assault corvette’s weapon seems to be too powerful in small groups they kill CAP ships faster then other capships.”
Or something like that . . . rather then giving me a vague short response that does not tell me which corvette or the number in question, How “super” they really are (small or large modification needed??) and what they REALLY fought against.

Like I said, Luckily, I do know the “problem” it is one of the big balancing problems I have run into changing all the weapons and is VERY expected, and I expect to find more.
Actually one thing I was going to was to swap the Assault corvette name and weapons with the laser corvette name and weapon . . . giving the Assault corvette 1 kinetic turrets rather then two (and it will look bigger) and the laser corvette will have 2 LZ turrets instead of 1 . . .
This should ½ the fire power of the Assault corvette and make the laser corvette usefull.

So, please if you are going to comment please make it useful . .

[wookieman]

sorry. I am just saying that they are far too powerful and I was able to completely wipe our my CPU (hard) opponent using only 10 corvette squadrons.

does that sound unbalanced to you?

I destroyed a shipyard in about 15 secconds with them.

and by BC I mean the Battleship. what's the point in having to research and buid a shipyard when you could just kill your opponent with these 'super' corvettes of yours. It also kind of renders the other corvettes to be well.... a bit pathetic in comparison.

I also think the kinnetic frigate should be long range insted of short because they aren't really worth the bother for protecting them for the small amount of damage they do, while they could make excelent long range support against other frigates or destroyers.

I appologise once again for my previous 'crude' comment.

P.S. I did it at 1 o'clock in the morning so I wasn't thinking straight.

[Ta_erog]

You are right. . . they are far too powerful hence my planned fix. (The current balancing is NOT necessarily by design but a side effect of guessing what each ship should have with the new weapon systems) Lots of fixing will be necessary (note I hate Uber ships so there will be none in the final version, so any you find is a mistake)

"I appologise once again for my previous 'crude' comment.
P.S. I did it at 1 o'clock in the morning so I wasn't thinking straight."

Ok thanks and understandable. . :)


The kinetic frigate has a large kinetic weapon (it may be too weak at this point) and kinetic weapons are shorter range in my MOD. If you want excellent long range support against other frigates or destroyers use the Ion frigate.

Essentially the kinetic frigate is a knife fighter it is (should be) very deadly in groups but also expected to take allot of casualties. Short range, not very accurate, high damage.
The Ion frigate is the long range support expected to keep back (fixing engagement ranges) and nibble ships to death from a safe distance. Long range, very accurate, lower damage.
Both are totally defenseless vs. Bombers and corvettes and both should be used in groups.

Also the Vaygr CPU may not be a good fight I need to update there weapons (there point defense I think are not working right, never got updated so they have too small of a attack arc)

[Midgetus]

I like your mod, but I haven't gotten to play it enough to form an opinion that mught be useful to you. I'll get back to you when I finish all the crap I have to deal with right now and actually get to play some.

[Ta_erog]

Hi all, :new:
I have been working like crazy to get some new content in this MOD . . so here are some highlights . ..

I have added the HW classic rule set (Luke Moloney's Homeworld Classic Mod, updated by Mikail) with some modifications, since it works so nicely and adds some really great features.
Also I have added some more of Greggy’s and Bandit’s ships. . . So the dreadnought now uses the BB’s hull with his massive gun subsystems. . and I have added a new cruiser (battle cruiser) to the light and heavy cruiser’s in this MOD.

This nicely separates the Battle classes and fills them out. Strike craft, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers . . with the battleship and dreadnought capping it off. (Fighters, Gunships, small CAPs, med CAPs, CAPs, large CAPs, and super CAPs)
On a game play side note (Hit points and weapon range have been increased but over all damage I have tried to keep the same by making the weapons less accurate and giving the weapons wide damage ranges, System shock and push parameters. Also cap ship battles should be more intense)
I also swapped the assault corvette’s HOD/ship with the pulsar corvette HOD/ship . . this limits the assault corvette with one big gun and gives the pulsar with 2 turrets helping a balancing problem.
Bombers are now given stand off missiles making them worthwhile again. (Note. Bombers are deadly and will launch at range . . but if they get too close point defenses and fighters will chew them up because then can not defend them selves)

Also I made up some nice menu background graphics, and Demon_Eyes colorful ion package.

So the MOD should have a much better overall feeling of completeness to it. . . unfortunately it has also gotten much bigger (32bit 1600x1200 menu_background tga is not small, and Greggy’s and Bandit’s ship add-ons are huge)

I am currently fixing subsystems and missiles so hopefully the new version .6 will be out in the next few days. (research is still to be done so any comments would be good)

Also I am PLEADING here! I need people to play it and comment on it . . I know balancing is still off but I really can’t do too much about it if I am the ONLY one playing it. So any 3rd party constructive comments I can use would be helpful (and please no “X ship sucks dude” comments)

[varis]

1600x1200 backgrounds get used only by people running that resolution, others use the one in lower size. Maybe you could provide the backgrounds as a separate download? :-/

I'm thinking lack of feedback is because there are too (?) many mods in the works, feedback too takes time and effort and it gets spread thin.

[Ta_erog]

That is a good idea . .

[Ta_erog]

:new:
Ok I am thinking about adding Mothership size killer chickens . . they would need to jump in . . and cost just scratch . . be devastating but get fried quickly . . . :chicken:

[Ta_erog]

Herm, since people seemingly have no problem with the Gigachicka . . . I want people to comment on what they think of the black hole gun I am developing it should be much nastyer then the sege gun in HW:C since one shot = one win . . . talk about Uber . . . :spin:









OMG at least 20 people have look at my insane comments and made no comment? :dolt:

What a bunch of lurkers. :) :lurk:

[Sarcastro]

<skulks out of shadows>

*ahem* uh, no lurkers here.

Skip the Gigachicka, I say. Unless you can get a model in game that's as high-poly as this smiley :chicken: , then go for it.

Just to be clear, is 0.52 the latest rev? Are these "Greggy" and "Bandit" ships you're adding going to use new models, or reuse the stock ones?

More comments when I've played it more...

<skulks into shadows>

[Tel'Quessir]

be devastating but get fried quickly . . .


Yes, McMakaan Fried Frigates.... :)

[varis]

Maybe you could make überpowerful gravity mines with an easter egg model, you know that exists in the standard game ;-)

Greggy&Bandit are making a nice mod called Modernization, includes some new/changed models.

How's the playtesting? Could try out a new version of the mod...

[Ta_erog]

:new:

Well I finished v.6 :banana:
And for some reason I can't get it uploaded?!? :allnight:

Will try again tomorow . . .

[Ta_erog]

The v.6 Update is UP and working corectly download and play . .


AND let me know what you think . . . Please :)

[beiltan]

it crashes to desktop upon load

[Ta_erog]

When did you download it (there was a 2 hour peroid when a bad version was up sunday morning)

Also, "it crashes to desktop upon load"
Is not very helpfull . . give the last few lines of the log file with -luatrace switch on . . . please . .

[MadmanDan]

is this what you need? i've no idea where the lua treace dumps it's stuff, but this is my best guess. mine ctd's too :'( hope it helps. it looks such a great mod, and i'd love to play it and know it's such a great mod!

(from Hw2.txt)
Build name: The Dust Wars - AutoBuild3569 - Ordered by smmatte
Built by : mrbuild
Data path : C:\games\HOMEWO~2\data
Resetting fp control word.
CmdLine: -overridebigfile -w 1280 -h 1024 -lua trace
Starting Level: data:LevelData\Multiplayer\Deathmatch\6P_TERAH.LEVEL
could not find family Missile, All family names should be defined in data\scripts\FamilyList.lua.

Check that any families you've assigned to ships / subsystems / resources are defined in this lua file. -- FATAL EXIT -- familylist/76:! --stack trace-- 0x0048E023: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x00477880: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x003C46B5: lua_error () 0x003C4749: lua_error () 0x003C4751: lua_error () 0x003C47EE: lua_error () 0x003C481E: lua_call () 0x003C4A13: lua_dobuffer () 0x0046CB81: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x00476769: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0044A063: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0047B7F8: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x003C46B5: lua_error () 0x003C4749: lua_error () 0x003C4751: lua_error () 0x003C47EE: lua_error () 0x003C481E: lua_call () 0x003C4A13: lua_dobuffer () 0x0046CB81: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0047681E: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x00442EA9: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0043180C: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x00489A93: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0048A246: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x005781E0: getLibraryID () 0x00579086: getLibraryID () 0x0059865E: getLibraryID () 0x00599CDD: getLibraryID () 0x004952A1: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x00490C11: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()

[Ta_erog]

Are you sure you have no other MODs installed?
Any other mod in the Gamerules OR data dir can for some reason make these errors (a pressidence problem)

I have downloaded my uploaded file and tested the MOD as you would install it and it works fine . .But if I add any other mods sometimes I get FamilyList errors . .

So, make sure you downloaded it after around 2:00 est us (if not download it again)
Make sure ALL mods are move out of the data and Gamerules dir
then add the FE_MOD_v.6.grm1 to Gamerules and run the game with out -overridebigfile and -mod swiches!!!

And please let me know if that works . . It should not crash on just your system like that . . and it is very easy to miss something (I did on sunday)

[MadmanDan]

just checked (and removed) all other rogue thingys in the data and gamerules directories, including maps, but to no avail. still crashes. no switches either. unless english.big is a rogue file, not sure about that one. suppose i could try a full reinstall, but sleep is sounding much better ;)

[varis]

Seems like the gamerules mechanism doesn't work as well as Relic intended. I tried making my mod a gamerules file and it didn't work either.

IMO one should increment the version number of the package whenever it is changed. That way you can always know which exact configuration the user is running, based on the version number. You know you won't run out of version numbers :-)

[MadmanDan]

did a full reinstall of hw2, and unfortunately it's still not working. if as varis says the gamerules mechanism isn't so flexible, could you package it in a .big?

[varis]

the .grm1 packaging consists of just renaming the file. You can just rename the file back to .big and move it to your Data directory, then run it like any other mod that comes as a .big. (ie. put the command line to launch with the .big into a .bat or a shortcut.)

[Ta_erog]

So varis did you get it running??? as a rules file . . and then as a big (of course the local strings may get messed up then) but your right it sould work eather way.

I have 2 systems with it on and they work great (and the second one has had no development on it, ie fresh install)

MadmanDan
Again, I can't seem to reproduce the error (I did have a pagage up for around a hour or two early sunday, that did give a simular error . . but from the download count it seemd like only one person did download it and that was Varis) I should have changed the number but heck no one else seem to have downloaded it and there was such a small window on top of that . . but it is possable that someone did get it as I was deleting it . . so thats why I am saying if in dowt download it again.

Also, since you are the only one to respond I can't tell if anyone else is haveing the problem or not . . . and since I can't reproduce it here I can't fix it . . (though I might just make a big but I sould not have to)

So anyone that had got it tell me if it v.6 IS working or not, please. 23 People HAVE downloaded it!!! and not a peep . . . please . . give a peep :stick:

[MadmanDan]

just changed the name to .big and it's working for the most part. well, all apart from the local strings, asuming you mean all the tooltips and setting names references etc (gives a $8043 for example). looks good, as soon as i figure out what the setting are and can play it a bit without the bare minimum resources...game sooo sloooow. any quick fix to get the references to these files working again?
it's looking pretty good so far though, even though no shots have been fired yet!

[Ta_erog]

Look at the .DAT file (in the big) it has all of the strings in it . . (use the extractor)
BUT since you are useing it as a BIG you don't NEED to use the extra gamerules at all . . just use deathmatch till we figure this out . .

In fact you may want to try useing bolth the .big and .grm1 packaging at the same time . . that has a chance of working since it seems the BIGs have the highest priority.

So, what I mean is . .
take the FE_MOD_v.6.big you have now and COPY it and rename to FE_MOD_v.6.grm1 and move that into the gamerules while KEEPING the FE_MOD_v.6.big in the DATA dir and useing the -mod switch . . this may be a workaround . . .

Too bad I have YET to here from anyone else since there has been 30 downloads of FE . . . .

[MadmanDan]

hehe, just me huh? fixed it for now by writing down the options in the grm and clicking the relevant one... is there a problem with the higgy AI? just tried a 6p on terah, and the hig's seem paralised. the vaygr shoot for the resources like a bat out of hell, but the higgy's just merrily collect rocks with their few miners until their impending doom arrives. in the form of a crash, or the vagyr. no idea why though, but i've played a few games now, and all the ones with higgy's in crash. 100% vagyr are fine.
i've never played a game with any significant starting fleets before, but it really get the AI off to a flying start!
here are some first impression:
1. fast AI starting, if they're vagyr
2. love the look of the weapons, continuous/rapid fire from big cap ships looks so sweet, and they can actually miss!
3. not too sure about the dreadnaught. seems that the bottom missile launchers fire, and the missles fly into the top launchers. do they fire something different too, cos i have only seen them launch the missles?
4. light destroyers have a little bucking bronco in their blood. doubt the crew would stay alive for long, but it is certainly different!
5. what do the side pods on the battle cruiser fire?
6. i think that some of the super cap ships accelerate and turn a little too fast, but i suppose that stopping as well as starting distances must be balanced.
7.good job making the ships distinct. first game i played it was an alll out resource fest, not the best to learn ship types, other than how many you can build before the computer chugs :|. good how you can actually tell apart the cap ships even though they look similar.
8.fun to play! i love a little variety!

[MadmanDan]

lol, it just dawned on me that Fleet Engagements is a NEW race that replaces the higgys, and the vagyr remain unchanged.
don't panic, i'll get there eventually.

[Ta_erog]

Vaygr remain mostly unchanged, they do use the new weapons (mostly) and have more HP and movement to match the new FE “race”.
One problem with the AI (which is common) is that it is not using the research and build correctly for a new race . . . let me tell you that it has come from not working at all to barely working . . I have a long way to go.

“1. fast AI starting, if they're vagyr”
Yes, to give a challenge . . since no research and build has been changed the AI works well.

”2. love the look of the weapons, continuous/rapid fire from big cap ships looks so sweet, and they can actually miss!”
Thanks, all of the weapon files have been redone and also they are rated from MKI to MKV of each weapon. I made a full weapon frame work that people can use . . Check the Xls sheets

”3. not too sure about the dreadnaught. seems that the bottom missile launchers fire, and the missles fly into the top launchers. do they fire something different too, cos i have only seen them launch the missles?”
The dreadnaught weapon subsystems fire missiles and if in range massive kinetic/or plasma shots (I forget) BUT you need to get in range (knife fight weapons!) Also it is a problem with the HOD that the lower ones tend to hit the hull I am working on a missile fix for Greggy.


”4. light destroyers have a little bucking bronco in their blood. doubt the crew would stay alive for long, but it is certainly different! “
Also check the heavies they are quite dangerous in pairs vs larger cap ships! Also try groups of frigates they tend to swarm larger ships . . some great movement too.

”5. what do the side pods on the battle cruiser fire?”
Plasma or Heavy kinetic I forget (it has changed a few times)

”6. i think that some of the super cap ships accelerate and turn a little too fast, but i suppose that stopping as well as starting distances must be balanced.”
Yup, they do . . that is why I need people to play it and tell me their preferences.

”7.good job making the ships distinct. first game i played it was an alll out resource fest, not the best to learn ship types, other than how many you can build before the computer chugs . good how you can actually tell apart the cap ships even though they look similar.”
I tried to make each ship different but also similar enough to be from the same fleet. Some are very specialized and some are more broad . . .Ie the Light CAPs are normally faster and better vs smaller ships then they are . . the Heavies have more armor, slower acceleration and bigger weapons but mostly made to combat other CAPs. (and fighters do not fight CAPS at all . .only bombers)

”8.fun to play! i love a little variety!”
Thanks, I wanted to really get people to make allot of ships and have real fleet engagements and not piecemeal battles . . and sadly finish the game when the only cruiser comes out . .
Check out the inhibitor and the gate platform . . the defense and kinetic frigate . . Also the strike carrier is a great forward staging ship. (I normally set all producing ships to send there ships to it) Also remember some ships have range dependent weapons and micro manageing (moveing them closer manualy) is the best way to use them . .also some missle ships are used best if after they fire they retreat untill they can fire again.

[Solaufein]

Guess I am doing something wrong trying to get it to work. dunno what though.

heres the lua trace:
Fri Feb 13 15:06:57 2004
Loaded Archive: 'Homeworld2.big'
UTIL -- filepath failure, path doesn't exists 'D:\GAMES\HOMEWO~1\data\locale\english'
Loaded Archive: 'english.big'
Uing ..profiles\ for profiles folder
GAME -- Using player profile Solaufein
Changing from a 32 bit colour depth in winNT (5.0 build 2195), Service Pack 3
Using ATI Technologies Inc.'s 1.3.4063 Win2000 Release RADEON 9200SE DDR x86/MMX/3DNow! renderer (Suspected driver is atioglxx.dll 6.14.10.4063)
Loaded Archive: 'englishSpeech.big'
Loaded Archive: 'Music.big'
SOUND -- created destination [ fdaudio ], handle [ 4 ] with [ 48 ] channels created
SOUND -- created destination [ fda streamer ], handle [ 5 ] with [ 8 ] channels created
Build name: The Dust Wars - AutoBuild3569 - Ordered by smmatte
Built by : mrbuild
Data path : D:\GAMES\HOMEWO~1\data
Could not initialize all fragment programs. Please use the '-fragment_program 0' command line parameter
Resetting fp control word.
CmdLine: -luatrace
Starting Level: data:LevelData\Multiplayer\Deathmatch\2P_SHIELDS.LEVEL
could not find family Station, All family names should be defined in data\scripts\FamilyList.lua.

Check that any families you've assigned to ships / subsystems / resources are defined in this lua file. -- FATAL EXIT -- familylist/76:! --stack trace-- 0x0048E023: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x0054913D: GSTracker::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x005485CA: GSTracker::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x002D4749: lua_error (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll) 0x002D4751: lua_error (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll) 0x002D47EE: lua_error (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll) 0x002D481E: lua_call (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll) 0x002D4A13: lua_dobuffer (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll) 0x002F522E: LuaConfig::GetStringArray (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\luaconfig.dll) 0x002F1F1D: LuaConfig::LoadFile (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\luaconfig.dll) 0x00549616: GSTracker::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x0059924F: getLibraryID (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x0059958F: getLibraryID (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x00599C65: getLibraryID (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x00599CBE: getLibraryID (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x00599CD8: getLibraryID (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x004952A1: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x00490C11: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe) 0x004911D2: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= (D:\Games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe)

[Ta_erog]

Thanks for responding . . .there was a problem that one other was getting and it seems like you are the second!

"Could not initialize all fragment programs. Please use the '-fragment_program 0' command line parameter
Resetting fp control word. "

That is rather strange . . never saw that before . .

"Starting Level: data:LevelData\Multiplayer\Deathmatch\2P_SHIELDS.LEVEL
could not find family Station, All family names should be defined in data\scripts\FamilyList.lua."
This was a problem I ran into once but was fixed . . when did you download this? (possably I didn't fix it all the way)

"Data path : D:\GAMES\HOMEWO~1\data"
This may be important . . did you install homeworld there? THe BIG package paths may be messed up and only people with it install the same as mine are working?


(to everyone else)
~60 people (or really there has been ~60 downloads) have been done and only two people so far has had problems . . If there are problems PLEASE inform me so I can find the problem, if it work fine PLEASE drop me a line saying so!!

[Solaufein]

I just downloaded today from the link at the first page. The file is called: FE_MOD_v[1].6_2.zip

as for the data path, yes that is the install path too. Though the \locale\english part doesnt excist on my harddrive

The only other mod I had installed was the exmod, but I removed the .big file from that mod and started with the original exe, not the exmod bat file.

[Ta_erog]

Thanks you have been a great help! expect a new verson this weekend

(ps. you can make that version work by changeing its extention to .big and useing the -mod switch . .

[Solaufein]

What file do you mean? Where is it placed? If I change the grm1 file to big in the gamerules dir the same error occurs. If thats what you meant it didn't work. Does the -mod switch need a file name or something?

[Ta_erog]

ER, you do know how to use a mod packaged as a .BIG right????? :umm:

You can just rename the "FE_MOD_v.6.grm1" file back to .big ie "FE_MOD_v.6.big" and move it to your Data directory, then run it like any other mod that comes as a .big. (ie. put the command line to launch with the .big into a .bat or a shortcut.)

Homeworld2.exe -mod FE_MOD_v.6.big-nomovies -luaTrace

This way you may have to use the deathmatch becouse the local data may not work this way.

[Solaufein]

That did the trick

[MercFox1]

The little addition at the end of the mod switch (-nomovies -luatrace) wouldn't fix it so I just put -mod FEv.6.big or whatever and that did it.

[Tel'Quessir]

Have you found out what that "fragment_program_0" error means?

That shows up occasionaly in the unpredictable rare crashes of PDS.

[Ta_erog]

MercFox1
Sorry, There needed to be a space in that line
(-nomovies just turns off the intro and -luaTrace gives more into in the log file for debugging)

OPPS no space before the -nomovies
(Homeworld2.exe -mod FE_MOD_v.6.big-nomovies -luaTrace)


This is better . .
Homeworld2.exe -mod FE_MOD_v.6.big -nomovies -luaTrace

[Ta_erog]

Upcoming update to my Fleet Engagement MOD . . .
Includes . . :salute:
-A totally reworked and expanded Research tree . .
-Changes to Targeting, More attack classes allowing each ship to select from a expanded list of preferred targets.
-Changes to weapons, Weapon restrictions relaxed. Some Weapons can now attack a wider range of targets with a wider range of accuracy’s.
-Changed Fleet MOD’s Mother ship to Vager type . . looks better with the fleet ?!

Temporary fix to the problematic Rules MOD problems (till we can figure out what’s up with it)
Cleaned up Vager side and assigned complimentary weapon systems. (for CPU skirmish)
Removed CPU only AI changes to Fleet MOD side . . to help fix crashes with CPU skirmish (Fleet MOD side does not work as a CPU player in skirmish) yet . .

[Ta_erog]

Acck!
homeworld.star-fleet.org is down so I can't upload my update . .

Any other Host sites out there??

[Ta_erog]

The Update is uploaded . . .

Please, if you download it . . give me a clue if you even like it or even better suggestions.

I included the xls files so anyone could easily play around at balancing this MOD (all you need to do is extract the .big)


:3d: :3d: :3d: :3d: :3d: :3d: :3d: :3d: :3d:

[varis]

All I can say so far is that the menu background looks very nice...

[Ta_erog]

And you have great Icons!!! :p :rofl:

[Ta_erog]

Hellooooo??? Any one out there??? it has been a week and 81 downloads and NO feed back :gonemad: :gonemad:

Quite simply it seems that people are just strangely quiet or have no comment (which seems strange) or just don't care to see anything done with This MOD.

Let me know, Ahem! I can't make inprovments if I don't know what people like and don't like!

[wookieman]

obviously it is so perfect that no one can comment.

be proud! :smile:

[wookieman]

what is the new command line?

is it : -mod FE_MOD_v.7.big -nomovies -luaTrace ?

[Republic44]

Great mod Ta_erog!! (echos)

[Epyon Zero]

can ya make this downloadable using flashget? cuz I'm on 56k

[Ramrod]

wow this mod is great. are you still working on it? if so, any updates planned soon?

btw, ta erog, (a bit off-topic, but i couldn't find any of your other threads where this would be relevant) i read in the 'newtonian dynamic fighters' thread that you were working on newtonian capships. any word on whether that will be released? all the newtonian physics threads i've seen are either newtonian physics-bashing or hw1 mods.

[Ta_erog]

"are you still working on it? if so, any updates planned soon?"
Well, No . . I am not . . I stopped working on it a bit after I figured out the Engine would really not do what I wanted . . and also because support for HW2 is lagging . . lack of community . . and updated tools . .

There are some great people here, and a new influx of people ready to MOD or play the MODs but in all, the MODing community here is very very small and the MODability of HW2 (in some important areas) very shallow . .
Simple Mods are rather easy to make anything more complex is a nightmare to troubleshoot . . . and since they removed all debugging and console . . I found it too much trouble for it’s worth . .

Now having said that . . . I FREELY give any and all work I have done on my MOD (except the load screens which are my art work) to the Public domain . .

Now, this includes my extended XLS spreadsheet I used for modifying all of the new weapons and ships (they are modified from the RDN versions) and are included in the MOD pack.

Have Fun playing with it if you want . .and don’t feel like you have to worry about using it (like the wacky IP scare and craziness earlier in the year here . . . moronic)

Just let me know if you want to use it and I might have some other goodies left on my local drive . :)

I am off MODing other games now . .

[jenrick]

What did you want to do that the engine wouldn't let you do? It seems like so far you've managed to work around most of the hurldes.

-Jenrick

[Mugsy]

im trying to download this, but the website is down, can you give me another link?

[Agilius]

Interesting! But you know I have EX MON 2 and I have a little problem with the in Data folders and how can I add new stuff without changing the EX OMD...Could you tell my how to do it? Or is it possible?

[Akalamanaia]

"are you still working on it? if so, any updates planned soon?"
Well, No . . I am not . . I stopped working on it a bit after I figured out the Engine would really not do what I wanted . . and also because support for HW2 is lagging . . lack of community . . and updated tools . .

There are some great people here, and a new influx of people ready to MOD or play the MODs but in all, the MODing community here is very very small and the MODability of HW2 (in some important areas) very shallow . .
Simple Mods are rather easy to make anything more complex is a nightmare to troubleshoot . . . and since they removed all debugging and console . . I found it too much trouble for it’s worth . .

Now having said that . . . I FREELY give any and all work I have done on my MOD (except the load screens which are my art work) to the Public domain . .

Now, this includes my extended XLS spreadsheet I used for modifying all of the new weapons and ships (they are modified from the RDN versions) and are included in the MOD pack.

Have Fun playing with it if you want . .and don’t feel like you have to worry about using it (like the wacky IP scare and craziness earlier in the year here . . . moronic)

Just let me know if you want to use it and I might have some other goodies left on my local drive . :)

I am off MODing other games now . .
Hmmm, are you the Ta_Erog whos working on FarGate Mod for FarCry?

[Mugsy]

can anybody awnser my question? is there another link to this mod thats gettting so much praise? i would like to try it myself.

[IonFizzle]

Cant contribute much of use, but I'm enjoying playing around with the mod. My favorite ship so far is the Battle Cruiser, its balanced and the quad-barreled beam cannons are *%#*&%ing awesome!!

[Ta_erog]

The download works fine??
http://homeworld.star-fleet.org/mods/download.php?action=zip&image_id=37

Try that?? :werd:

[Mugsy]

still ain't workin. :(

[Ta_erog]

Funny, It works for me?? well then give me a place to upload it to you :bandit:

[Mugsy]

do we have to Right click and save as or anything?

[Ta_erog]

yes try that . .

BTW it is ~17MB

[Mugsy]

nope, none of the following works:

Rightclicking. save as

Actually clicking on link dosnt work cause it dosnt specify the file, plus it wotn anyway since the site really is down.

[Ta_erog]

ER, no . .

I just downloaded it again. Web, june 23 12:00pm

The site is up and I can browse thrugh it and have no problem downloading it.

It must be something else. (you ISP blocking that doman?)

Any way if you want it eather download it there, or give me a place to upload it . . :werd:

[jcaum]

I have a problem... I copied the mod to the data folder and it runs fine... it's just that when I play a CPU skirmish I see about 6 Fleet Engagement game options. Why? It's annoying me :P

[Ta_erog]

Don't know, and don't really remember how I left it, and really don't care . . . feel free to fix or change it or even take over (use it for your own mod). . it is NO longer "supported"
I only wanted people to be able to download it so the work does not go to waste . . . so I incurage people to use my work freely! but don't ask me to work on it again . .this game will not allow me to do what I wanted to do and it looks like it never will so I am done with it. sad but true.

[adamstrange]

Anybody ever got this mod to work?

[Jack]

no i cant get the stupid thing to work