What Armies do you play?

[EnderWiggin]

I play Necrons, Tau, Space marines, and Imperial guard.

[dewolfe]

Marines, Eldar, Harlequins, and my own PDF (that I use the DaemonHunters' rules for).

[Dagda]

Eldar, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle, Daemon Hunters and IG. I also have a large force of Squats but are almost usless now.

[Faisal]

I usually go for Orks(horrible accuracy :p )and space marines,i also play Necrons,Tau and Chaos.

I just hope all races are in :p gives them game more diversity...

Also i suspect Relic will use a method similiar to their Impossible Creatures game,where you can genetically engineer some 40,000 animals,but i suspect in warhammer each unit will be fully customisable (ie you choose their equipment,much like constructing and painting miniatures)...

[Tribunal]

Tyranid and Eldar (though it has been a bit since I was able to play against anybody).

[No Surrender]

The Imperial Guard.

[Darkness]

tyranids

[Xenocide]

Ahh a fellow Ender fan....

I played Ultramarines and Imperial Guard.

Oh and Orks when i was up for a laugh. Da red wunz go fasta!

[Zang]

Necrons and Eldar. Although not a very good force for either :/

[IWAssassin]

Imperial Guard [2500pts], Lost and the Damned [2000pts]

I also have small Space Marine, Eldar, and Dark Eldar forces that really I havent used in years so have no clue how big they can be (:

For the record my Computer's Network Name is Ender (:

[SirRunOn]

Tyranids(2500), Eldar(2000), Dark Eldar(2500), Marines(9500 1 full company), Imperial Guard(4000), Chaos(3000).

Heh, so they're doing a 40k game are they? XD heh heh, relic and 40k in the same place... sounds good.

[=FA=PingWraith]

Necron, Eldar, Marines and Tau. I have a 'nid force, but they remain unpainted as of yet.. and I just started (really just started, i have one squad) of Imp Guard...

[No Surrender]

How can you people afford so much?

[EnderWiggin]

Because 1) Have a lot of money or 2) been playing for awhile or 3) a job.

[DemonTalons]

A JOB?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??! OMG!!!!!!!!!

[=FA=PingWraith]

2 is correct, 3 is correct and a VERY forgiving wife

[Dagda]

>>How can you people afford so much?<<

Ive been playing since Rouge Trader. Many of my models are the old lead figures when they were decently priced.

[IWAssassin]

Playing forever works best. I've been playing for 8 years myself, others longer (:

[AdrianWerner]

Well...I started with Eldars in 2nd edition..when 3ed camed I picked the box, sold Eldars to my friend and started to collect DarkEldars..I have about 1500 points DE army now..I don`t play it, because I really suck with this army :D But what the heck..paiting them was fun as hell :)
Later I started to collect Chaos Space Marines..I have 2000points of tis army.

Recently I`ve bought Tau codex, so that`s what I`m playing now(my friends are good enough that they allow me to play with models from other armies so I can learn a bit about Tau army before I start to spend money on it :) )..and I`m tempted as hell to pick DarkAngels(I`ve crazy idea of paiting them in Shinsengumi colors :) ). I expect Tau and DarkAngels to become my main armies for couple next years.

[SirRunOn]

I make armies with a friend, then slowly buy them off him. Also since I paint well enough to get paid for it, I can support the habit.

Bought all 120 metal cadians in one shot, with launchers, special weapons, etc etc.

I'd post imagery, but really I can't spare space.

Oh and guys, anyone in PA post in. If you're looking for a game, I have just a *feeling* I'll be able to put together a large enough army to use.

Shinsengumi dark angels... eww... Dark Angels rock by the way. WHAT? chase us away?! Hell no! We'll just get pissed and shoot you MORE.

Tau are good, but watch the marines. I went 1500x1500 73 models tau vs 73 models my marines... at the end of the fifth round, the remaining three tau models surrendered. My remaining 68 marines shot them anyway. Damn aliens.

[IWAssassin]

Its what they deserve for believing they can unify a galaxy whose hadred goes back tens of thousands of years. Hell even the Total Annihiliation war only lasted 4000 years and there was NO chance for peace there (:

[deggy]

although I haven't actually 'played' a tau army yet, my guess would be your friend tried to play the tau like a marine army.

That and its real easy to build an inefficient tau list, what with so much wargear and drones and everything.

If you could post the list RunOn, I'd love to see it!

[lardmaster]

if i can settle myself with the outlay.. i wanna set up an imperial guard tank division.. all vehicles and 2 he77 with all the little men. Course without the hundreds o meatshields it wont seem like an imperial guard army, but i think i can live with it,

[SirRunOn]

Hmm, my army was all foot marines. 1 max squad of jumpers, librarian, jump chappy, and a dev squad. Everything else in basic marine troopers.

He had 3 damn large squads of fire warriors, etherial, commander in armor, squad of armor, broadside(s), think some kroot in there somewhere.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Silly Tau bugger...vs. Marines you need lots of broadsides (or hammerheads) and as many plasma guns as you can. A squad of the powered guys (what they call those suits?) with plasma guns can put the hurt on marines. I know, I've nearly lost to the Tau before.

Their strength 5 guns are cool, but not vs. marines with their massive armor. You need carbines to make them hit the deck. And you needs a lot of Kroot to suck up enemy fire...in close combat, kroot are not to be trifled with en masse. Dont neglect sheild drones on your broadsides...nothing worse than watching your las cannon shots harmlessly piff some floating pile of junk while the battle suits work you over with rail gun shots.

If you kicked his butt that badly then he really stinks...it appears he had both kinds of battle suits and still lost...fear the angels of death!

[ATag]

last time i met Tau was when i played a 750 pts imperial guard army and he had 500 pts over. when it ended after 6 rounds the entirely tau force was whiped out and the had only killed one and a half squad guards, a commissar and destroyed the multi-laser cannonturret of my chimera... the chimeras damage came by railguns...

[Fable]

Over 10 years and I still love my Eldar army over all others, but do also collect DE and 'Nids.

[Nantarg]

Imperial Gaurds and a Kroot Mercenary force... both around 2000p

[Adalpheus]

Ive had eldar, tyr, DE, dark angels and deathwatch. I'm currently putting together a defensive space marine army (WHAT??? I hear you cry...) and a Tau force.

The technique with Tau is a mobile style of play, stay out of assault range and keep shooting. Inevitably you will need more tau than space marines to make it fair, but you can quite easily take out three tacticals and a devastator with 5 or 6 fire warrior squads...

[EnderWiggin]

Yea Tau is hard army to play I think. And there are few tau players so you can't really get a lot of help.

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by deggy
although I haven't actually 'played' a tau army yet, my guess would be your friend tried to play the tau like a marine army.

That and its real easy to build an inefficient tau list, what with so much wargear and drones and everything.

If you could post the list RunOn, I'd love to see it!
Deggy I saw your post I'll post my Tau army list also.
and I put it on the fourth page because I guess its illegal by the games workshop drones that I can't post unit stats on the internet. :madashel: :madashel: :madashel: :madashel:

[Rampart]

I think I only understood about 2/3 of that post. I really should get the new rulebooks, haven't played in quite a while. it's what, 3rd edition now?

in any case, I wonder if Relic could include the option to parse a file like that and import it into the game.

[EnderWiggin]

Its from army builder :D

[deggy]

yeah, that looks pretty comprehensive Ender, ready for any threat!

Your stealth team only has 3 members... why so small? Do you find such a compact unit to be more effective or did you run out of points?

Overall you have a pretty low number of infantry, have you found greater success in your crisis suits?

If you had to drop down to 1500 pts, what would you sacrifice?

Have you had a battle with this list? If so, how did you fare?

I'm really intrigued by the jump packs ability to move in the assault phase. I'd love to see that in action in a heavily jungled or urbanized environment, where you could jump out from behind cover, shoot, and then jump back into cover. It seems like you could really concentrate fire and annihilate your way through an enemy army one unit at a time.

Overall, it looks like a solid list! I know I would have second thoughts before taking my Death Guard against you!

[IWAssassin]

For the record Ender, that list is too accurate. Relic could get in trouble from a post with that much detail on the list (:

General rule of thumb for posting lists online, post the unit name, and equipment it has. NEVER include itemized points costs [in fact its better to leave points costs out entirely]. Also NEVER post stats for the units.

Keeps everyone out of trouble should some GW bean counter happen across this board (:

An example would be as follows.

Imperial Guard 1850

Jr Officer Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-1x Power Weapon
-Chimera
--Smoke Launchers
--Pintle Mounted Storm Bolters
--Multi Laser
--Heavy Bolter

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--4x Flamers
--1x Power Weapon
--Chimera
---Multi Laser
---Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon
--Grenade Launcher
-Infantry Squad
--Missile Launcher
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--4x Flamers
--1x Power Weapon
--Chimera
---Multi Laser
---Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon
--Plasma Gun
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--2x Flamers
--2x Melta Guns
--1x Power Weapon
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--2x Plasma Guns
--1x Power Weapon
-Infantry Squad
-Infantry Squad

Hellhound
-Smoke Launchers

Hellhound
-Smoke Launchers

Sentinel
-Multi Laser

Leman Russ
-Hull Heavy Bolter
-Sponsoon Heavy Bolters

Leman Russ Demolisher
-Hull Heavy Bolter
-Sponsoon Heavy Bolters

[MorningLord]

Dark Eldar 0wnz j00! 101010 lolol. :p
Translation: Using Dark Eldar, I am assured of complete victory over thee.

Nasty spiky purple elfs rock.

[IWAssassin]

Dark Eldar can slaughter everyone. Providing of course, that the DE player NEVER EVER makes a mistake in the execution of his army. Make no mistakes and you'll only have trouble against Necrons. Make a single mistake and expect to lose to everyone (:

[TheMadMonk]

I currently have played over the last year both World Eaters army and Necron army (that got a bit out of control, started as a 2000 point army but now its over 4000...oops). Way back, I played Eldar and Orks back in the Rogue Trader era. I've played Marines for years during 2nd edition and for a few years at the begining of 3rd till Necrons came out.

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by IWAssassin
For the record Ender, that list is too accurate. Relic could get in trouble from a post with that much detail on the list (:

General rule of thumb for posting lists online, post the unit name, and equipment it has. NEVER include itemized points costs [in fact its better to leave points costs out entirely]. Also NEVER post stats for the units.

Keeps everyone out of trouble should some GW bean counter happen across this board (:

An example would be as follows.

Imperial Guard 1850

Jr Officer Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-1x Power Weapon
-Chimera
--Smoke Launchers
--Pintle Mounted Storm Bolters
--Multi Laser
--Heavy Bolter

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--4x Flamers
--1x Power Weapon
--Chimera
---Multi Laser
---Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon
--Grenade Launcher
-Infantry Squad
--Missile Launcher
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--4x Flamers
--1x Power Weapon
--Chimera
---Multi Laser
---Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon
--Plasma Gun
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--2x Flamers
--2x Melta Guns
--1x Power Weapon
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun
-Infantry Squad
--Heavy Bolter
--Plasma Gun

Infantry Platoon
-Command Squad
--2x Plasma Guns
--1x Power Weapon
-Infantry Squad
-Infantry Squad

Hellhound
-Smoke Launchers

Hellhound
-Smoke Launchers

Sentinel
-Multi Laser

Leman Russ
-Hull Heavy Bolter
-Sponsoon Heavy Bolters

Leman Russ Demolisher
-Hull Heavy Bolter
-Sponsoon Heavy Bolters
What will GW do sue me for posting my army builder list?

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by deggy
yeah, that looks pretty comprehensive Ender, ready for any threat!

Your stealth team only has 3 members... why so small? Do you find such a compact unit to be more effective or did you run out of points?

Overall you have a pretty low number of infantry, have you found greater success in your crisis suits?

If you had to drop down to 1500 pts, what would you sacrifice?

Have you had a battle with this list? If so, how did you fare?

I'm really intrigued by the jump packs ability to move in the assault phase. I'd love to see that in action in a heavily jungled or urbanized environment, where you could jump out from behind cover, shoot, and then jump back into cover. It seems like you could really concentrate fire and annihilate your way through an enemy army one unit at a time.

Overall, it looks like a solid list! I know I would have second thoughts before taking my Death Guard against you!
For the stealth team I basically ran out of points on that one I would probably take a second squad of three.
I have lo infrantry because mostly I play against space marine,orks,nids,chaos,and guard. So I want the AP stuff to take out all the big things that come towards me. I haven't played this list yet. I have I think a 1500 tau army but its bad, so I revamped it in army builder to make it better. But I can't really play much or buy much any more because my parents get on a hissy fit because I spend a lot of time on warhammer and sutch and they say its just a waste of money and time. But they say that to almost everything I do. If I had to drop to 1500 I would drop the krootox and the hounds.

[hybris]

Iyanden ELDAR
Biel Tan ELDAR
Ultwë ELDAR
Alaitoc ELDAR

Do I see a connection?
eldar, Eldar, ELDAR!

I've played WH40k since the start with different teams but really stuck with the Eldar because of their rich and interesting background, fluff and excellent models.

[IWAssassin]

What will GW do sue me for posting my army builder list?

Not you, rather Relic, the owners of RelicNews domain, etc. GW is REALLY facist about things like that. You'd be amazed how difficult it has become to look up stats on models these days from what it used to be, because yes GWs teams of Lawyers threaten lawsuits against everyone. "Take it down or else" with the same going to the provider of the site.

[ATag]

i have a imperial guard army "Macharia 27"... and yes it was the planet who was destroyed in the EoT, The planet next to Cadia... my army is abaut 2500 pts. and then i have a Eldar ulthwé army 3000 pts and last a SM its abaut 4000 Ultra marines.

[Prydefalcn]

The Ghosts of Iyanden walk amongst my forces!

Beware, the Wraiths are vengeful over the fall of the Eldar.

[Adalpheus]

The good thing about WH (40k and fantasy), is that no single army rules, mostly thanks to the balancing of the dev teams. As long as you know how to use the army, it's strong and weak points and those of your opponnent, you can win most battles with a bit of ingenuity and luck on the dice...

The old codices had a LOT of fluff, and interesting stuff to read about, which makes some of the older armies much more popular than the new ones (SM, Eldar, etc...).

That's a nice tau army, although the army list in a simplified form might be easier to read for people not used to using army builder...

[EnderWiggin]

Simplified version
HQ
Aun'Shi-- 105

Elites
3Stealth Team-- 90

2Crisis Battlesuit Bust Cannon; Plasma Rifle; Multi Tracker-- 195

1Shas'vre Burst Cannon; Plasma Rifle; Multi tracker;Hard Wired Drone controller.-- 73

2Crisis Battlesuit Missle Pod; Plasma Rifle;Multi Tracker;Bonded-- 212

1Team Leader Missle Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi Tracker; Hard wired dron controller.-- 72

Troops
12Fire Warriors 4x Pulse Carbine 8x Pulse Rifle-- 120

12Fire Warriors 4x Pulse Carbine 8x Pulse Rifle-- 120

19Kroot Carnivores-- 257

1Kroot Shaper-- 29

1Kroot Hounds-- 12

1Kroot Hounds-- 12

1Krootox-- 50

Heavy
1HammerHead gunship-- 160

3Broadside Battlesuit team-- 225

Fast Attack
Pathfinders/Devilfish Dropship-- 164/80
Gun drones Pair.

[Civik]

Tau actually aren't that difficult. What you have to remember is that you have the single most powerful basic 'gun' in the warhammer universe (in terms of raw strength) and not much in the way of wargear.

FireWarriors are very deadly when used properly and with a 50 pt ethereal, being able to re-roll all those morale checks is great (especially when you want to fail and catch a squad of BT in a rapid fire crossfire!).

The T'au are just horrible at close combat, so you need to be able to think ahead and realize that your firewarrior squads are expendable for the greater good of the entire army.

Kroot are just no good usually so I wouldn't waste points with that.

Also, don't mix carbines in unless absolutely necessary. The ability to pin someone doesn't really come in handy all that often.

A good 1500-1700 point force should have at least 3-4 full squads of firewarriors.

The armies I play are Dark Angels (SM), T'au, and Imperial Guard.

[IWAssassin]

Much better Ender. Last thing we need is the GW Nazi's getting here. The GW Uber Geeks are fine, but not the Nazis (:

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by Civik
Tau actually aren't that difficult. What you have to remember is that you have the single most powerful basic 'gun' in the warhammer universe (in terms of raw strength) and not much in the way of wargear.

FireWarriors are very deadly when used properly and with a 50 pt ethereal, being able to re-roll all those morale checks is great (especially when you want to fail and catch a squad of BT in a rapid fire crossfire!).

The T'au are just horrible at close combat, so you need to be able to think ahead and realize that your firewarrior squads are expendable for the greater good of the entire army.

Kroot are just no good usually so I wouldn't waste points with that.

Also, don't mix carbines in unless absolutely necessary. The ability to pin someone doesn't really come in handy all that often.

A good 1500-1700 point force should have at least 3-4 full squads of firewarriors.

The armies I play are Dark Angels (SM), T'au, and Imperial Guard.
Like I said before fire warriors really do jack squat against space marines so I put in heavys and elites instead and put the kroot in so if the marines come to close I have a buffer.

[EnderWiggin]

Why is GW so facist about unit stats on the internet :-/

[IWAssassin]

Copyright Infringement. They love money, they love lots of it. They dont want ANYTHING of theirs available for free. They even tried to sue the makers of army builder for the same reason. DMCA technically says that they have every right to sue everyone on the internet who ever posts something that is in one of their books, so they persue it vigorously.

In a way it makes sense. We went from 100+ page codicies in 2nd Ed to 40 page codicies in 3rd Ed. There's nothing in the books except the stats these days, so the only way they're going to sell it to people at $20 a pop is to make damned sure its IMPOSSIBLE to get the rules anywhere else.

[EnderWiggin]

Thats stupid all about marketing and money.

[Civik]

my roommate has won grand tournaments with an army composed of 1 squad of 3 broadsides, 2 hammerhead with railgun, 4 full firewarrior squads, and 2 squads of Crisis suits.

oh yeah, and the ethereal.

His army list doesn't change at 1700 - 1850 points. He just adds wargear to fill out the points cost (he got tired of painting white armor so he didn't want to make another squad, LOL)

But trust me, in a shooting army, shooting effectiveness is what counts. Those kroot aren't really a good barrier, for the same points, you could have two more firewarrior squads pummeling the enemy from long range.

[Adalpheus]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin
Thats stupid all about marketing and money.

That's the way the world works these days...

I much prefferred the old codices as they actually give you something to read, a feal about that army. The first codex I ever read was the old eldar codex, and I read that through twice from cover to cover not even knowing what 40k was, just because it was a wicked story...

[deggy]

Originally posted by Civik
Tau actually aren't that difficult. What you have to remember is that you have the single most powerful basic 'gun' in the warhammer universe (in terms of raw strength) and not much in the way of wargear.

FireWarriors are very deadly when used properly...

The T'au are just horrible at close combat, so you need to be able to think ahead and realize that your firewarrior squads are expendable for the greater good of the entire army.


Civik hit the nail on the head, so to speak (I detest cliche's). It doesn't matter how many warriors you have at the end of a match, as long as you've won. In my experience, very few people are willing to make the call to sacrifice a unit. Most players treat their squads as children or as something really precious, sheltering them and holding them together as long as possible. Sometimes it takes a good suicide run or a 'bait' unit to crack your opponents defenses.

It becomes quite obvious with some units - grots, nerglings, ripper swarms, etc.. - that this is their function, to dive in heedless of the threat. Stop a unit from shooting, or take away the charge bonus, offer up a roadblock to allow the rest of your army to regroup, or block line of sight with a well placed melee.

It takes a leap of courage to extend this practice to your whole army. Anyone is expendible if it increases your chances of success. Your Guard line about to be overrun? It's your turn? Charge the first squad out so that the others may put an extra 6" between you and your foes and have heavy weapons in place on your next turn.

Yeah, there's always the chance the die will screw you, or your opponent will out smart you. In those cases, thank goodness its a game! But learning when to make the tough sacrifice is one of the most important skills in strategy games.

The Deathguard are fearless, all will march gladly to their doom at the whim of their master! For they know, even in death, their plague will spread, BWWA-HA-HA-HAAA!!!

cheers!
-chris

[No Surrender]

I would put 3 broadsides in 3 separate units so that they're more flexable. If they were in the same unit, they would have to shoot at the same target, move together and can be wiped out easier.

[AdrianWerner]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin

Like I said before fire warriors really do jack squat against space marines so I put in heavys and elites instead and put the kroot in so if the marines come to close I have a buffer.

Actualy the key to using FWs is to have a LOT of them :) If you have many big squads of FWs they can take down SpaceMarines

[Civik]

Deggy, I know what you mean. I fall into that same problem with my Dark Angels as none of the imperium's finest are worthy of sacrifice. ;)

But my new army proves that I don't care about that anymore, I've included bikes for my 6th co! ;)

Oh, and reguarding those nurgle chaos marines... please close the vents in the armor, we can smell you clear across the battlefield. :)

There was a rogue trader here in Seattle about a year ago. My roommate forgot all of his suits and it was too far to drive back home to get them.

So he played minus 800 points of his army.

4 full firewarrior squads with all the fixins (to try and meet the 1850 requirements), two hammerheads, and an ethereal.

He tied an opponent... and though he lost the other two games, he says that it defined his playing style with firewarriors as it taught him how to use their strengths and weaknesses to his advantage.

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by deggy


Civik hit the nail on the head, so to speak (I detest cliche's). It doesn't matter how many warriors you have at the end of a match, as long as you've won. In my experience, very few people are willing to make the call to sacrifice a unit. Most players treat their squads as children or as something really precious, sheltering them and holding them together as long as possible. Sometimes it takes a good suicide run or a 'bait' unit to crack your opponents defenses.

It becomes quite obvious with some units - grots, nerglings, ripper swarms, etc.. - that this is their function, to dive in heedless of the threat. Stop a unit from shooting, or take away the charge bonus, offer up a roadblock to allow the rest of your army to regroup, or block line of sight with a well placed melee.

It takes a leap of courage to extend this practice to your whole army. Anyone is expendible if it increases your chances of success. Your Guard line about to be overrun? It's your turn? Charge the first squad out so that the others may put an extra 6" between you and your foes and have heavy weapons in place on your next turn.

Yeah, there's always the chance the die will screw you, or your opponent will out smart you. In those cases, thank goodness its a game! But learning when to make the tough sacrifice is one of the most important skills in strategy games.

The Deathguard are fearless, all will march gladly to their doom at the whim of their master! For they know, even in death, their plague will spread, BWWA-HA-HA-HAAA!!!

cheers!
-chris
your a phsyco

[EnderWiggin]

So I'll scratch the krootys and put in more firewarrior squads.

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by No Surrender
I would put 3 broadsides in 3 separate units so that they're more flexable. If they were in the same unit, they would have to shoot at the same target, move together and can be wiped out easier.
If you put multi trackers on them then they don't have to shoot all together right?

[starrider]

that would be target lock. multi trakers lets them fire their own weapons at different targets.

[Civik]

Multi-trackers don't do that... they allow you to fire more than one weapon at a time.

Hope that's legal to say. :) If not, please delete this post.

And you don't need the TL for everyone, just the two subordinates since technically if you leave the commander without one, he's firing as the 'squad' and the other two can fire independantly using the TL.

The way you stated TL to work is how it works on vehicles, not battlesuits.

RTFM. :)

[Rampart]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin

your a phsyco

the funniest thing is that not only does he work at relic, but he's probably one of the least "nutty" employees relic has :)

[Captain Stern]

Dark Angels(3000), Daemonhunters(1500), Dark Eldar(2000) and Necrons( 1000, I repent starting with them). I think my next army will be the Tau.

[EnderWiggin]

Um whats the easiest way to get rid of a Daemon hunters grandmaster with a phsycannon and holocaust?

[EnderWiggin]

and two incinerators, and Justicar armed with an Incinerator, all Deep Striking right in front of your Stealth Suit. Instant hit, ignore Inv. and cover saves, and close combat as soon as possible.

[Shadione]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin
So I'll scratch the krootys and put in more firewarrior squads.

I agree that fire warriors are good stuff, but I wouldn't discount Kroot.

Problem is how GW has used them in the codexes and battle reports is simply not a good use, but is how most people assume they should be used. Basic Kroot are toughness 3 with no (or 6+ save). That's not an effective barrier against assault. Fire Warriors with their 4+ save are much more survivable. Kroot are strength 4, but their low initiative guarantees that they'll mostly be dead by the time they get there shots in.

So, what are Kroot good for? I don't remember their exact point cost. They're roughly the cost of a guardsmen, but have stength 4 guns and strength, can infiltrate, and get bonuses when in cover in forests (which are pretty common on many gaming tables).

I would use them to flank and take pot shots at the enemy, staying away from the rest of your army, and adding to the weight of fire of your army. Always keep them in cover and they get the one thing a guardsmen has over them, a save.

Why not just use fire warriors for the same role? Lots of reasons: Because most people are more frightened of fire warriors than kroot, so their's a good chance they'll ignore the Kroot in initial deployment. That's 20-30 S4 shots a turn for free in addition to your regular shooting. If they don't ignore the Kroot they're splitting up their assault or shooting across a wider area, preventing them from concentrating on the core of your army, guaranteeing more shooting from your core force. With Kroot on flanks they can help prevent or delay 'run-arounds' by fast enemy assault units. Because they're in cover they'll strike first against an enemy assault (or at least simultaneous), which will do much more damage than the Fire Warriors could do. And finally, they can infiltrate, so they could get into a position FW's couldn't in many cases.

Sure, they don't have strength 5 guns, but S4 is nothing to sneeze at, and their lower cost means you'll have more of them.

Lots of Fire Warriors is a great idea, though. Nothing wrong with that logic. :)

[Shadione]

Originally posted by deggy
The Deathguard are fearless, all will march gladly to their doom at the whim of their master! For they know, even in death, their plague will spread, BWWA-HA-HA-HAAA!!!

Bah! My Orks have mastered the concept of sacrifice. 120 models at 1500 points, all of it ready to be sacrificed so a small margin can get into assault and start stompin'.

mmmmm.....everyone is so choppy....

[Civik]

You keep shooting... rapid fire that sorry Inq or GK that just deep struck in front of you.

Yes, they get to shoot, no, they can't assault.

If your friend assaulted after deep striking, he's cheating.

:D

I had a squad of obliterators deep strike in front of my dark angels once... two plasma cannons and several plasma guns later, they didn't exist. :D

[Captain Stern]

There is really a psy power called "holocaust" for the daemonhunters!?
If you only think about what would happen if they would use the same name here in germany...;)
Which one is it?

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by Civik
You keep shooting... rapid fire that sorry Inq or GK that just deep struck in front of you.

Yes, they get to shoot, no, they can't assault.

If your friend assaulted after deep striking, he's cheating.

:D

I had a squad of obliterators deep strike in front of my dark angels once... two plasma cannons and several plasma guns later, they didn't exist. :D
what about independent character rules?

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by Captain Stern
There is really a psy power called "holocaust" for the daemonhunters!?
If you only think about what would happen if they would use the same name here in germany...;)
Which one is it?
hahaha ya lawsuit? lol its the one where it basically can kill anything my friend who is the daemon hunters player is bororing the codex so I can't look it up :-(

[EnderWiggin]

Danm how many people at relic play warhammer?

[Shadione]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin
Danm how many people at relic play warhammer?

Around a dozen or so.

[ObsceneName]

my 2000pt tyranid army
had around 136 models
then somehow the gaunts broke...
the gaunts are probably the easiest models to break simples because they either get hung on something or theres just to many of them to try and keep them in good condition....

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by Shadione


Around a dozen or so.
I wish I could work at relic :-(

[Civik]

Shadi, my 25 deathwing terminators say none of them make it. :)

[Shadione]

Originally posted by Civik
Shadi, my 25 deathwing terminators say none of them make it. :)

They'll make it. I know because I'm good at math. :)

[EnderWiggin]

what are you guys talking about lol
random......

[AdrianWerner]

Yep..most new Tau players make two mistakes

-use Kroots as hand-to-hand combat unit.
They`re not good at it..of course compared to rest of Tau army they might seem to be better..but the best way to use Kroot is as a shooting units standing in forests..there they are very hard to kill

-make the whole army static.
Sure. Tau is shooting army, but it`s also mobile...I`ve seen games where Tau didn`t move even once :D That`s bad.. FWs are good as static figures and they should form a basic of the army..but not using other unit`s manouverability is a crime :)

[HeritorAsphodel]

Tau rule!

[EnderWiggin]

Yea tau do own

[Darkness]

no they dont

[Adalpheus]

Tau can rule, as long as you use them properly, same with any army.

[=FA=PingWraith]

so why is it that everyone hates the necrons? i enjoy playing them at our local store?

[EnderWiggin]

Well I play necrons to fully painted army I might get some picks but anyways.
Necrons are just so...well easy and so danm powerfull to play. And that it just is harder to beat them so people get pissed off because they are just more powerful and harder to beat. So it takes more time to think and etc. Thats what I think. So they call necrons cheesey. I think daemon Hunters are worsted.

[Darkness]

necrons are cool, havent played them tho but it cant be that bad
there are always millions of whiners for every decent person in this world, so dont do what the majority says, ever

[ObsceneName]

a necron army is much more forgiving then a tau army simple fact
also much more expensive.....
most people say they do the slow advance but i say never advance unless well never..... necron fire power is where it amtters aslong as you set up those immortal properly when your fighting a cc army so just about where ever they come from your getting the rapid fire
immortal are my favorite elite simply because there next to impossible to kill and when you do they just come back
now warriors these guys are rapid fire and should only move to get in range then teleport the turn the enemy is about to assault you out of the way and rapid fire again
this is why you only take one monolith and keep him back to teleport your guys not fight the enemy with the gauss attack and get in range to get screwed over by there high powered weapons

PS: nothing about necrons are cheesy its just tehre good stuff is much more easier to see thats why so many necrons armys are the same there might be over powered stuff but thats it nothing cheesy

nowi dont play necrons and ive played agaisnt them once and guess what this guy was like yeah ive played 216 games
i was like ive played 3... we tied...

[Shadione]

People dislike Necrons not because they are too powerful (although that's what they complain about), but because they are frustrating. They're an army that's all about denying the enemy their special abilities, and breaking the established rules. Kill them, and they get back up, charge them in assault and they teleport away, use power weapons on them and they use the Orb of Resurrection. Their skimmers don't follow skimmer rules. Etc. And they can field units that are next to impossible to destroy (Monolith and C'tan).

This is all frustrating, and can make games against Necrons exhausting, but it doesn't make the Necrons over-powered in my opinion. Quite the contrary, in observing them and considering them as a new army choice for myself I find them to be a very difficult army to play well.

The easiest armies to play are the ones whose strengths and weaknesses are readily obvious. This makes their strengths easier to maximize, and their weaknesses easier to minimize. Tyranids are a great example, get a lot of bugs and charge and you'll do relatively well I've found. It's not advanced tactics, and a good player will defeat it, but my point is they're an easier army to figure out.

Necrons are hard to kill, that's a strength, but that doesn't help them take out the enemy? They don't have a lot of long-range, high AP, high strength fire other than the destroyers. Almost no AP3 for taking out marines. No 'heavy bolter' equivalent for taking out light infantry. And they always come in small numbers. Their assault capabilities are limited. Sure, the C'tan and Monolith are scary, but they can't kill an army by themselves, are enormous point sinks, and I've found can mostly be ignored. You also have the 25% phase out hanging over your head. Personally, I find them to be a very hard army to use effectively on a regular basis.

I find when players complain about other armies most of the time they're only looking at the upside of their opponent, and not the downside. They're getting psyched out by reputation, and most of the time that means they've lost before they even put a model on the table. Put yourself in your opponents shoes and you'll see how hard their task is in taking you out. That's the best way to learn how to make their lives difficult, and ultimately win. Focus on your strengths, and their weaknesses, not vice versa.

Warhammer is a game of extremes, which is what makes it interesting. If the armies didn't go to extremes they'd just be bland, and we'd all move on. After all, complaining is half the fun.

But don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing against our Necron player (our lead programmer), but I don't enjoy playing against the Necrons. While I find they are hard to make effective, I find playing against them tiring. I KILLED YOU ALREADY! STOP GETTING BACK UP!!!

[EnderWiggin]

And thats why I love my necrons :D

[=FA=PingWraith]

Indeed, thank you for the stimulating thoughts... I saw the second generation concept scetches and fell in love with them. The idea of an utterly remorsless foe silently striding across a battlefield, the enemy chants, taunts, snarls and threats going completly unheeded... that along with my already... overactive imagination has givin me some very interesting visuals, its a pity i cannot put them on film, i think that would be grand, but thats another story entirely...

[Zigguratei]

I believe I am a rarer breed of 40K player.. I play the Thousand Sons (2500). A group that I believe to have the best storyline (fluff) in the game, and the worst rules to play them with (broken army? at the least unbalanced).
SO while I would love to hear/ see anything done with the Amazing Sorcerers of Tzeentch, this is not something I expect.

[deggy]

A friend that used to work here played a Thousand Sons army. Can't say they ever appealed to me much but I did love the Gift of Chaos on a nine sorcerer retinue. Then all you needed was an expendable troop of whatever, if you can swing cultists you're in the money, and for every 1 wound you lost, you'd gain 2, in the form of a Spawn of Chaos.

Shadione, our campaign manager, said he could try it once but after that he'd need to get a few Chaos Spawn models... well he did win the match. His opponent had toughness 3, so when he made it into assault range with the 3 or 4 Spawn he had already generated from his own troops, he easily started turning his opponent’s troops over as well. It wasn't so much a melee as it was a spawn-fest. There must have been a line up in the warp waiting to get in to a fresh host. He ended up fighting with an average of 6 or 7 Chaos Spawn in that first battle, and at $30-ish apiece, it wasn't bloody likely that he'd be following up on that tactic as a permanent addition to his playbook.

It's an expensive and chancy tactic. If you can't get them into close combat then you can still be shot to pieces. To build momentum you must start sacrificing your own units which of course, could have draw backs. The sorcerer retinue costs something like 400-500 pts depending on wargear. The models themselves are bloody expensive. But man is it demoralizing for your enemy to see their captain turned into a Spawn of Chaos that promptly turns around and starts dealing out the death, hehe. Gotta love those little humans and their toughness 3.

-chris

[Joshmaul]

I detest the Necrons for that "Sometimes They Come Back" rule or whatever it is. DIE ALREADY, YOU BASTARDS! :D Ahem....

My arch-enemy in 40k is my stepfather Jim, who plays Chaos. He has this totally frickin' evil Daemon Prince as the commander of his army. It uses the body of an older DP, I think, kinda fat-gutted type of guy, with two of the head selections from a Chaos Defiler on each of his shoulders, and other degrees of extra arms, tentacles, and weapons. He wants to put wings on it, too....but I think the idea he likes best is an attempt to sort of relive the American Civil War with our Imperial Guard. He wants to put Confederate battle flags on his tanks and flag bearers.

We have a lot of stuff between the two of us, and the way we play is kinda against the rules. All kinds of guys, all kinds of vehicles, no point limits, last man standing, NO HOLDS BARRED.

Anyway - we play:

Imperial Armies......
Dark Angels Space Marines, commanded by GM Azrael - 2500 pts.
Space Wolves, commanded by Ulrik the Slayer (stepfather's) - 1700 pts.
Blood Angels, commanded by Capt. Tycho (stepfather's) - 1000 pts.
Black Knights Space Marines (Daemonhunters), commanded by GM Underwood - 3500 pts.
Reydovan XIV (custom legion) Imperial Guard, commanded by Marshal Britanov (Heroic Sr. Officer) - 2250 pts.
Cadian Imperial Guard, commanded by Jr. Officer - 750 pts. (I'm building it)
Steel Legion Imperial Guard, commanded by Heroic Sr. Officer (stepfather's) - 1700
Tanith Imperial Guard, commanded by Col.-Commissar Gaunt - 1500 pts.

Chaos Legions...
Black Legion, commanded by Warmaster Abaddon - 2400 pts.
Death Guard, commanded by Typhus - 1600 pts.
Legion of the Black Hand (stepfather's), commanded by DP Artimus - 4000 pts.
Fallen Dark Angels (stepfather's), commanded by Cypher - 1200 pts.
Traitor Imperial Guard (Joint venture w/stepfather), commanded by Senior Officer - 2750 pts.

...and everything in between!
Dark Eldar, commanded by Archon - 1800 pts.
Dark Eldar Wyches, commanded by Lelith Hesperax - 550 pts.
Ulthwe Eldar, commanded by Farseer (joint venture w/stepfather) - 2100 pts.
Tyranids, commanded by winged Hive Tyrant (stepfather) - 2600 pts.
Orks, commanded by Warboss - 1800 pts.

-Joshmaul

[EnderWiggin]

Danm thats a lot of models.

[Van]

Just found out about this game in the current issue of PC Gamer. I must say i am excited about it. Been a while since i have been excited about W40K.

I lost my love for the game when the 3rd ed rules came out. Which was just a couple months after i finished my 3rd and most colorful army.

My initial army was Ultramarines, 3rd Company.

Then i collected a Chaos Marines army, The Black Legion(the original chapter of Horus, the heretic)

My final army was a great Blood Axe clan Ork army.

When 3rd edition came out and invalidated so many of the models i had just spent so long buying and painting my digust and anger were palpable.

I have nearly 12k points(second edition values) in models. A fair chunk of coin invested. Bah, blasted GW and there ever evolving rules.

Here is to hoping that this coming game will give us as close to a table top experience of W40K on the PC as is possible. It will certainly need all the armies and their histories and flavor to make it a 40k game.

[Viashimo]

I play Space Wolves (3000-4000 pts) and am so looking forward to nuns w/ guns... gotta love Sisters of Battle.

[Zigguratei]

deggy, -Chris

The spawn thing is part of what I mean, unbalancing can be favor more then one side.. BUT This is the WRONG board for me to complain on though! heheh. Complaining IS part of every 40K players day though. As for the Thousand Sons, I have a Close up and Personal.... shooty army. doh.

Gift of Chaos IS the most amusing thing I have ever seen in a game though.. Walking around with a C'Tan spawn makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. But the occasional Avatar of the bloody handed god works just as well. Wind Of chaos is also a good spell. But in the world of Computer games, balancing is, as you know, key. And thus I don't see my computer version of a C'Tan spawn ever happening! ;-) Just on less expectation less you have to worry about. I think the big Titan expectation that everyone here is building up is a much bigger thing to worry about! *see posts in "wish list" * for any refrences to this! But then again, after your previous track record, who could expect anything less then the best.

[Raven of the Da]

I'm with the Tau. they rock besides their weaknesses, maybe one of the most balanced, i like the feeling you get when you let it rip with 6 stealth suits.

Marines have some excellent cheap tanks my DA army fields 3 Razorbacks and a predator.

However im curious to know if the game will use the same mechanics, like in the past we had "Dark Omen" one the greatest 40k games ever concieved, this game used some of the ingame mechanics with success.

Know if it's playable why is it we can't see some screen goodies

[EnderWiggin]

Bleh I like Guard personally though a little better then tau :D

[Civik]

My first game against the necrons...

Lets see, turn two, he was still coming at me and there was enough cover to prevent casualties the first turn. Anyway, turn two, he deep struck his lord and the retinue of immortals in front of my army...

In front of a Dark Angels army...

3 plasma cannons and a few plasma guns thrown in for good measure later, not a single model from the retinue was left standing. ;) Even the res orb can't handle it if there isn't a model of the same type remaining on the board. :D

Second time, different player, I didn't have the heart to tell him what double 1's on deep striking meant for his huge squad of flayed ones... so I had him go ask the tournament organizer. Because I can be a bastard like that. :)

9 times out of 10, at least with my Dark Angels, I have gotten the necron player to phase out.

[EnderWiggin]

Thats why I don't like deep striking.

[Peregrinus]

Just to bounce in my tally:

Been playing Grey Knights since late 1990.
Started Sisters of Battle (Order of the Valorous Heart) when they came out in 2nd Edition.
Jumped on Tau when they came out in 3rd Edition.
Also playing a vanilla Marine army (Howling Griffons) because my Grey Knights have been pretty much ignored since the demise of 1st Edition.
And tinkering with starting an ImpGuard army, but that's slow going...

--Jonah

[Deetwo]

Originally posted by Raven of the Da
However im curious to know if the game will use the same mechanics, like in the past we had "Dark Omen" one the greatest 40k games ever concieved, this game used some of the ingame mechanics with success.

Just so you know, Dark Omen wasn't 40k ;) It's fantasy battle. You must have been thinking about.. um. chaos gate? or something. Rites of war was barely warhammer at all and firewarrior. uh. well. That's it basically with the digital side of 40k for now :P

And on topic, I play chaos generic/khorne/nurgle/slaanesh/undiv legions, probly nurgle/khorne latd, tau and maybe in the future, daemonhunters and witchhunters.

But mostly I just like playing my weird mix of khorne nurgle and undivided :)

[Malice]

just to add my forces

Tyranids (aprox 3000pts including a Scythed heirodule)
Iron Warriors (2000pts)
World Eaters (2000pts)
Ork Speed Freaks (2000pts)

[Dazz]

Tau & tyranids.

[DarthFelth]

well i have lots of armys in bits as my step dad had no respect for my stuff, i have like 2 boxs full of bits of armys, i have some bloody amgles about my mums house and some sisters of battle but at my house

Chaos Khorne marines army (lacking name as of yet) 3000pts
Space wolves army 2000pts
Flesh Tearers 1000/1500pts (never got round to finishin it)
and one day i will finish my thousand sons army it kinda got trashed when my mate brought it down in a bag :(

i have noticed 2 many people i have played will just back, and arnt willin 2 take risks, hey my khorne army is either daemons or in transports, i myself run as fast as i can at the other guy so i can stick my chain axe in his head :D

[Iron Warrior]

as said in other post
Iron Warriors(3000 points) not including the 15 termies im getting from friends
Tau(2500) including a squad of pathfinders with railrifles (marine killers :D

and having no money isnt an excuse not to play or get new pieces im disabled and money is always tight

[Iron Warrior]

forgot to mention my Tau army is unlike most hehe no kroot
a true tau army

[otkau killer]

none

[DarthFelth]

what the hell u need that many termies for in a army that size :p i mean i only have like 5 :p even if them with my lord are the ultimate c&c killins outta anyone i played part for maybe nids...

[Iron Warrior]

reason i use that many termies
(army list im using now)

1 defiler
2 x 5 man squad of chaos marines with a lascannon
2 x 3 man obiliterator squads
2x 10 man termy squads with aspiring champ as sorcerer
1 leutenate sorcerer in termy armor with servo
1 lord sorcerer in termy armor with servo

a nasty army at the moment

thats why so many termies
whats ya think
(thats not the only army list i use i have 4 now)

[DarthFelth]

hmm, tis ok, im a khorne player, so i dont really like Sorecerers, i found trying to keep my ar,y in character does leave it lacking much heavy power above a Plasma pistol, ahh well i guess that me land raiders for ;) that and transporting me Termies. Hmm i hope that isnt a 3,000pts army, cos that does seem abit small 2 mee, then again i try and only use 1 character were i can :p

How mnay point games you people usualy play, i mean i sometimes play down a games club, called swarm, its on the GW website, anyways we usually play like 1,500pts games. Would also be call 2 comare armies with people and stuff, if amyone want to talk to us, cos at the moment i got time kill :D you can always contact me on

MSN: darth1o9@ntlworld.com
ICQ: 114280257
AIM: DarthFelth

[Maximus Decimus]

Hey Iron Warrior, the 6 obliterators are rlly beardy i mean cmon its almost as bad as having 3 wraithlords in one smaller sized game. I have one word for those termies PLASMA!! cannons and especially if u have no transport vechiles. those termies biggest weakness if slow movement and death by plasma. i think i could take either squad with some blood claws or grey hunters but other then the lack of mobility its good.

i game Space Wolves with lots of transports, bikes, long fang, dreadnought, rune priest, wolf priest, 3 blood claw squads of 10, 1 grey hunter squad of 10, and some other stuff. the squads are maxed out with power weapons and flamers. oh and i have scouts with either snipers or anti tank weapons or close combat depending on army as they deploy from the enemy deployment zone.

:flame:

[Iron Warrior]

no we usually play 2000 points but every once in a while we will go 3000 depending on time

Max: na i have used 9 in a 2000 point army i use to play uber armies but now ive cut down on it (like the IW version of a ordinance happy army, you know 3 defilers and a basilisk, plus enough lascannons to take out your armor) but like i said i use to play uber armies, this aint that bad im just testing out the army list to see how it does the way i have things stated like the 4 sorcerers they all have the gift of chaos( hehe spawns)
the termies are flame units all armed with flamers and heavy flamers like i said just trying out the list
ive only been playing the game for about 4 years and the iron warriors for about 15 months
and ive seen khorne armies fast with no tanks in it(including a dreadnaught with the chance of having 9 attacks on the charge) im not that uber

I live in Wheeling, wv if ever in area look us up we play at the hobby shop near us

also plasma doesnt worry me hehe ive survied them easy
its the small arms fire that for somereason i cant seem to make my 2 up armor save to :)

ive seen worse armies then what i use like a friend who use to play dark eldar and use between 17 and 24 dark lances in his army thats uber!

[DarthFelth]

i must admit i played 1 guy, and i couldnt see what fun he had, i mean in a 1,500 game we have a vindicator, 2 devastator squards 1 all with plasma cannons, 1 all with heavy bolters, i can remeber the tactical squards chaplain and gaurd and supreme master, and if i remeber right his whoe army sat in bunkers or osmething.

i think my army needs more berzkers in it, i mean i have as many bloodyletters as i have Berzekers at the moment (16 of each)

[Shadione]

Hey Iron Warrior, is that a 2000 point army? By my count you have about 34 models in there. Do you play any opponents that field lots of infantry? I ask because in my experience the most effective armies in 40k are those that focus on primary troops first, and elites like termies and obliterators second.

At 2000 points I'd be putting close to 150 models on the table with my Ork army, and still have a good supplement of heavy support and HQ units (best elite options in the ork list, IMO), as well as a squad of skarboyz (elite unit). At 1500 points I field about 120 models.

Granted, numbers are the strength of Orks, but even with my Iron Warriors army (yeah, I've got them as well), I put as many basic marines on the table as I can. I've found that all the 2+ saves in the world can't make up for bodies on the table.

This has just been my experience. :) Obviously your experience has been different, or your opponents are different. I'm just curious which it is, and what kind of opponents you end up facing mostly.

[Iron Warrior]

where are you from
ya but this is an experimental army list (as is all my army lists)
i also like using troops in armies like my tau army no kroot
for tau army list follows
2x3 man broadside teams
2x3 man crisis teams one is hq
6x 12 man squads of firewarriors(including the leader with marker light)
2x 8 unit gun drones
all total = around 2000 give or take one or two :)
i like this army list just think if no firewarrior dies thats 144 shots in rapid fire range :)

most ppl play some sort of marine army or guard
but my termy army today held its own on the table in a 3 way fight with black templars and grey knights (including the fact that one termy squad was lost to going to close to enemy units while deepstrike) lost all but the commander) so it works right now
and yes its 2000 points

i also have other army lists for my iron warriors (like what i call my ordinance happy army, basilisk and 3 defilers ; or the other where i use 4 havoc teams:) )

we are unlike most groups we dont request ppl to paint armies and because of money we allow substitutes to be used in most cases

we love to just play for fun but some like to play just to win and when they dont their additudes change dramatically ( i cant see doing that its just a game) ive seen some wait till they get to the store and find out who they are fighting then stat up their lists i always go lists prepared first but with multiple lists so my partners on my side can have me change to help them in certain ways

my faverite phrase right now is
"how do you improve a marine army turn it chaos" :)

[ObsceneName]

heh my new tyranid list
has 2 winged tyrants with warpblast
and upgraded stats
6 warriors with scything talons and rending claws
64 gaunts with leaping ws and IN upgrade
3 zoanthropes with warp blast
3 biovores
1 carnifex...

pretty low on troops but i think it will do pretty good agaisnt the chaos armys that i have to deal with
nurgle and khorne

[DarthFelth]

well i myself dont usualy play bigger than 1,500, but for that use someting like

a lord in terminator armour with a squard of terminators
sometimes mount these in a land raider or i take a unit or raptors or bikers

2 unit of 8 berzerkers in rhinos
2 units of 8 bloodletters

i think the problem with cult armies are the cost, i mean yeah, berekers are great on the charges, but i mean lack of numbers is a bugger. still 32 attacks on the charge if i dont upgarde one 2 a champion is usalu enough to get rid of the any the oppoent may have for out numbering u, but still, i guess that only really works if u can kill a unit a turn otherwise u found i get mobed down, that or if i play major heay weapon armies i found my berzerkers usualy run outta my rhinos at the wrong time, hmm i really gotta redesign my army i thinks :(

[Archon Vap'Oriz]

2000 points is a pretty good game if i want a variety from my army (dark eldar)

maybe up to 1250 with my tyranids
(just really started)

[ankara halla]

Hmmm... I started out with Squats in the good old days when RT was new and even still have a few squads, a rhino and some bikers.
When Compendium came out I also started to collect a Mentor Legion -army of which I have in current points for about ~3000pts. worth.
Just before 2nd ed. came out I also started to collect Blood Angels but since I was really disappointed about all the simplifications made to the rules (honestly, GW cut out alot of the diversity from RT) and since some people from my old circle of players moved on to other things I practically skipped the whole edition.
I´ve only returned to the hobby around two years ago for various reasons, none of which have anything to do with the current rules (which I consider to be much too streamlined yet unbalanced). ATM, I have around ~4500pts. worth of Angles.

[DarthFelth]

yeah, its a pitty they didnt like do two version o 40k, a kiddies version (current version) and adults version (expanded RT) but as i said the good thin about this was the fact that character stats wernt so much higher than troops, even if they still rule the game to much...

I used to have a blood angels army, i think thats was yet anounther victom of my step dad a few years ago, and that is was paint real bad :(

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by Shadione
Hey Iron Warrior, is that a 2000 point army? By my count you have about 34 models in there. Do you play any opponents that field lots of infantry? I ask because in my experience the most effective armies in 40k are those that focus on primary troops first, and elites like termies and obliterators second.

At 2000 points I'd be putting close to 150 models on the table with my Ork army, and still have a good supplement of heavy support and HQ units (best elite options in the ork list, IMO), as well as a squad of skarboyz (elite unit). At 1500 points I field about 120 models.

Granted, numbers are the strength of Orks, but even with my Iron Warriors army (yeah, I've got them as well), I put as many basic marines on the table as I can. I've found that all the 2+ saves in the world can't make up for bodies on the table.

This has just been my experience. :) Obviously your experience has been different, or your opponents are different. I'm just curious which it is, and what kind of opponents you end up facing mostly.
grrrrrrr stupid orks. I hate orks

[EnderWiggin]

Originally posted by ankara halla
Hmmm... I started out with Squats in the good old days when RT was new and even still have a few squads, a rhino and some bikers.
When Compendium came out I also started to collect a Mentor Legion -army of which I have in current points for about ~3000pts. worth.
Just before 2nd ed. came out I also started to collect Blood Angels but since I was really disappointed about all the simplifications made to the rules (honestly, GW cut out alot of the diversity from RT) and since some people from my old circle of players moved on to other things I practically skipped the whole edition.
I´ve only returned to the hobby around two years ago for various reasons, none of which have anything to do with the current rules (which I consider to be much too streamlined yet unbalanced). ATM, I have around ~4500pts. worth of Angles.
What are squats??????????
and what are mentor legion??

[ankara halla]

Originally posted by EnderWiggin

What are squats??????????
and what are mentor legion??

Squats aka. Space Dwarfs :)
By far the coolest race to ever grace the WH40k universe. Little buggers who used to ride around in bikes and heavy trikes blasting their enemies with heavy bolters and multi-meltas. Squats were led by their Living Ancestors, ancient members of their race who´d grown psychic in the twilight of their years, and their Warlords. Their elite forces consisted of The Hearthguard who could be given exo-armours which nearly rivarled Terminator suits.
While Squats were alive and well during the RT era and even had rules in the 2nd ed. they were compleatly left out from 3rd ed. to the dismay of several Squat fanatics :(
Have you heard of demiurgs? This is appearently the same race making a comeback in BFG at least. I really hope the Squats (or demiurgs if you prefer) make a comeback in the 4th ed.


As to Mentor Legion, basically a Space Marine chapter which specialises in fieldtesting all new equipment produced by the Imperium. While there is quite a bit of canon fluff about this chapter I don´t think there ever were any official rules for them.
However, we made house rules to make them stand out from the regular chapters.
The reason to have at least a little distinct official chapter was why I chose the Blood Angels in the first place. That and I love the fluff :cool:

[DarthFelth]

Exo-armour = Easter egg men ;)

i remeber squats, they were even more silly then the gretchin in the 2nd ed box game :P, i swear to good, the designers were on drugs at one point, just compare 2nd ed orks/orcs to the new ones ;)

yeah i used to love blood angels, always hated dark angels, maybe thats the space wolf side of me.

You know the best chaptor/legion would have to be my Khorne one, that has no name ;) who needs blood angels when u have big pointy axes and stuff;)

[ankara halla]

Hmm... there only ever were very few plastic squat models and even these were multi-part. Most of the figures were metallic and much better cast than, for example, the marines of that time.

I do agree about the exo´s though, looked kinda funky :)

[DarthFelth]

i liked the beak men :p and is cos of squat exo-armour little kid thought Termies could ride bikes, i hope all you squat fans are happy :deal:

[Viscount Vito]

Tau, gonna get Witch Hunters (arco flagallent heaven)

[Iron Warrior]

dont make fun of the little ppl they spatter like all the rest when hit by an ordinance round ;)

no seriously i was thinking of making IW squats but desided not to

[Iron Warrior]

forgot to add

also was thinking of trying to creat IW Tau (hehe 4 broadside teams hehe there goes the armor company on the other side of the table) :)

[Maximus Decimus]

.....squats.....no one has ever mention their name so openly since the....the.....indeed. Gamesworkshop officially declared them "those who will not be mention", a inquisitor has been dispatch to ur general location thank u, shop at GW again.

Heresy begets retribution

well i never did like those "sq**ts" much but they were kinda cool, well their gone now..forever.

:3d:

[DarthFelth]

Bah, im glad the easter egg men are dead, marines could have terminators on bikes after all :p

[Riker717]

My first memories of 40k are of squats. An old veteran who we called long beard(he had a long beard) smashed my flegling eldar army into a pulp with his squats. He was very satisfied.

[DarthFelth]

i never really played Squats, i had some really good games Eldar with my space wolfs, ohh the days of the gate and rangers howl in the enemys first turn ;)

[Aradiel]

- dark angels (one full company, without rhinos), plus 1800 of ravenwing and about 2000 deathwing
- iron warriors
- tyranid
- necrons
- lost and the damned
- 1500 IG, just infantry (thats right, no vehicles, not even a sentinel:)

[Aradiel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shadione
[B]Hey Iron Warrior, is that a 2000 point army? By my count you have about 34 models in there. Do you play any opponents that field lots of infantry? I ask because in my experience the most effective armies in 40k are those that focus on primary troops first, and elites like termies and obliterators second.

At 2000 points I'd be putting close to 150 models on the table with my Ork army, and still have a good supplement of heavy support and HQ units (best elite options in the ork list, IMO), as well as a squad of skarboyz (elite unit). At 1500 points I field about 120 models.


Try play with Deathwing. Thats 28 models in a 1800 poits game.
25 terminators and 3 dreadnoughts. Put a land raider there and you get even less models.

[Iron Warrior]

youve seen my army list hehe i call it IronWing

it works hehe
and i have more models on the table then deathwing

[ObsceneName]

demiurgs
are not squats
there short and reptilian
many people wonder what killed squats
and its called hive feet capitilism
well tyranids just ate the squat empire to make it short

[cenpjas]

Umm,

(I have chaos in boxes, I am haveing a theamed army where every model uses the raptor body, its quite dear.)

I have ork(newest army), I will not repost my list see here:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22992&perpage=15&pagenumber=7

I have three Battlewaggons and two gun truks in the works for 'em... I will need to then get some troops to put in the vehicles, I do have some bikes and a flight of 'copters.

I have a very large force of SM, who I have never played. (to boaring..., thats why I stay away from necrons).

My other army is Tau which I love.

I have read every post on this thread, and I can say that there is many diffrent opinions on the diffrent aspects of the race.

Although the Tau list is thin, there is a bucket of love in there (and its overflowing). Here are a few diffrent army configs I have used or seen:

Kroot heavy armys (and kroot merc armys).

Firewarrior heavy armys.

Elite (XV8 or XV15) heavy armys.

Heavy support heavy (my fav was feilding 9 Broadsides at 1500 points, in a city fight, with sheild gens and multi. Walking though buildings takeing the attack forward.)

I don't have my list handy but at 2,000 points I have 6 troop choices, e.g.

-------------------------------------------------------------

HQ: 1xXV8 Shas'el Missile pod, Plasma, Fusion, Multi, Sheild drones. (sometimes black sun)
Elite:
3xXV8 Missile pod, Plasma, Multi + Team With Two Sheild. Bonded.

6xXV8(Team Ld Bonded)
6xXv8 " " "

2x20 Kroot (no upgrades)
4x8 FW's. (bonded + Team leader)

Fast Attack:
2x8 drones.

Heavy Support: (I mix this up quite often depending on opponent)
2xtank
2xBroadsides.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thats around 96 models, Although its not uncommon for me to have 105 models at 1500.

It took me a lot of losses before I became proficiant at building a Tau army (whist learning the rules the hard way, used to be an epic only man).

What Have I learned? See my next post for my words of Tau Power!

[cenpjas]

Lots, thats what I have learned.

Tau Tacticus.

The good:

1.The first thing I learned.

If you place two units of FW around 13" apart with a kill zone between the two just under 30" away. You find that the number of dice you throw is nice :), just make sure you throw everything at ONE unit at a time. and do not waste your time giveing anybody Pulse carbines. (them is for drones and Pathfinders).

2. Bond everything.

3. 3 units of 8 are better than 2 units of 12.

4. in small forces alwas take the XV8 option for HQ, and the cheaper one.

5. Kroot are your pals, look after 'em and they will look after you. Kroot fill two important rolls in you force. (never upgrade'em even with a shaper, what a waste of points).

5.1 Use them to COUNTER attack, as you get 3 attacks each thus hold them just behind your FW's. If nothing else it will give you time to redeploy your army, and you might WIN COMBAT!!!

5.2 Use them as cheap bolters!!!, infiltrate into cover for a 4+ inv save and alwas just over 6" in cover, so you can see them and they can't see you, and they may fall short on a charge, where apon you SHOOT rather than assault (40 S4 shots, all hail for around 160 points - yes please).

[note, I have draged down a Deamon lord 250pts using just kroot in city fight. Even with T6 and 2+ save, you can not take 40 dice, remember you will only kill about 4 a turn!!. It is also worth noteing that you kroot will break and flee and annoy you sometimes, but hey that the price you pay.... better with two units of 10 over 1 unit of 20, alwas add hounds where you have the points, you can take 'em off first]

6. If you want to be mobile (and aggressive) you can not beat Battle suits and hammerheads. Steer clear of Pathfinders unless your upgainst Eldar/IG, and if you do use 'em use many in one wave in one place as you can because they do not have the firepower to do the job otherwise, once depolyed use there transport to block LOS to your more important units.

7. Alwas give hammerheads Mult-tracker, and target lock, best to give 'em distortion thiningy too. Use the upgrade that best suits you opponent, my prefrence is usualy the Ion Cannon. I use two Ioncannons to screw min/maxed devistator squads. Darkangels suffer from this tactic badly, bye bye plasma cannons :)

[If you want to kill tanks or play vs necrons, best to use broadside they last longer and hit more reliably]

8. If you use Broadsides, choose your weapons to match your opponent (best with Smart missiles in city fight), and ALWAS give them sheild drones(except in city fight) and multi tracker. I NEVER give them target lock, as I will KILL what I shoot, I don't want to split fire, thats for losers. If I want to shoot multiple targets I use multiple choices of BroadSides. [e.g. do not use 3 broadsides to shoot 3 rinos, use 3 to shoot one, and other things to shoot the other rinos] Once again, BOND EVERYTHING (just incase you missed that earlyer). I do tend to go with plasma rifles as they are assault so I can reposition my BS with out having to stop shooting, and remember its twinlinked. I have been sweeping advanced by 9 SM's before, there was 1 left after my 3 BS rolling 3 AP1/2 shots killing on 2's hitting on 4's with rerolls had finished(gota love rapid fire with rerolls).

9. XV8's or Crisis suites. Gota love 'em. You must have good terrain to do well with any XV suite. I tend to go multi-weapon over twin, as I want more (potential) killing power and some weapon flexability. Again with the shield drones. Haveing the extra range and S or Missile pods is a god send if terrain is spaced. Having the close-in killing power of Plasma rifles are the daddy to kill deep strikeing units (like terms, but then that player would have to be very very mad to try that vs a force with two buckers of AP1/2 weapons). A common flaw with opponents you will notice is XV8's draw fire like bees to honey, I quite often deploy them on the flank as it draws there attention there, your fast so you can redeploy quickly after game starts if you want. I do not deep strike my XV8's as I use them to keep there head down.

10. Stealth suits, O'I love thee. best in large numbers, try not to go below 5 per unit, as you NEED the killing power in one place. Best used to strike one target with both, usualy the SM trying to sneek though terrain out of sight of you army (give the advantage of them being slower to catch your XV15's as there in cover). Be awair that fast assault troops will catch and kill XV15s as a priority, see if you can lure his assault troops into your armys guns. I use Bog standard suits with no upgrades bar bonned = because everything is bonded. Use there Infiltrate over deepstrike as a suggestion, I like to have them in the open at around 34 inches from a basalisc, as it needs to direct fire at you (e.g. line of sight!! ahahahahha), so if they risk it they will not shoot all your other stuff, they still might miss and best of all they may shoot nothing at all. - hurra.

11. Imperial Guard (oo'I do like a good helper). These chaps r cool, grab some old imperial guard and thow them on the feild to make up your numbers!! Once again, best to take just standard chaps, alwas in full units and use 'em as cheep guns. I use 'em to do things like tie up wolf scouts and other such jobs. It is so nice to have a unit you can just thow around. (at around 68 points for 12) I quite often move them up with XV8's and 15's and they can be handy to stop a sudden assault.

12. Gun drones, the unsung heros, laying down there metalic entiys for the greater good. Good to stall an assault, good to sneek up a flank to steal victory points, and best of all almost not annoying anuf to attack, but not quite anuff to ignore... keep that chap guessing and on edge. I usualy deep strike these chaps, right next to basalisks or behind other IG tanks, and let them lose on the armor 10, S5 VS A10 = nice. It is well worth the risk. (and if you get assaulted they run away far so you might well leave other tarrgets of opertunity ;)

13. Krootox & hounds. Quick summary, Hounds good, Krootox poo. The Kroot Infiltrate ability is really nice, and the hounds are really cheap and good for early dead with out losing fire power and happly increasing 1/2 value. Were as Krootox is to expensive for its usage, and removes some of the inhearant value of kroot.

THE BAD:

Things to avoid or watch out for.

1. Assault troops usualy want to hit the closeist unit..., thus doing things like blocking LOS. You must space your forces to prevent consolidation & in the present rules V3 to prevent sweeping advances. Worse if you do not tarrget and kill fast units over heavy units you will be over run and killed on a regular basis.

2. There are many armys that can cause real problems for you, take DE, usualy not much cop, in particular to a canny SM army. However, with librel use of screem jets, portals and worst of all Mandrakes expect to lose lots and lots and lots, your only hope is huge numbers of troops (kroot and IG) and lots of stealth.

3. Beware the Eldar, any force that can munch though IG can take you to an early grave. As a genral rule, ignore wraith lords and wraith guard, there not very scarry (remember to avoid AP3 weapons on your suits though), its the 36" range of the support platforms, and there seer councel that will kill ya, NEVER EVER NEVER EVER EVER assault a seer councel with kroot.

4. Beware the IG. Forces of IG can easly out firepower you. They have more indirect weapons that you can shake a stick at, more ordanance weapons that you can belive...., my real advice is make sure you targget his fast units first, then indirect units. If you force him to move to you, your gona win. (watch out for deep strikeing IG they can really mess up your line). Genraly Storm troopers are less scarry, because there is less of them. Apply more forces to kill each unit as they get a good save and there are to many to kill effectivley with your low better AP guns Expect to have a nasty fight, once again more units are better against IG.

I'll look back for any comments. Hope it helps....

NB: Use the 'landing Gear' rule, it is very very handy find it in GW.

NNB: GW do not mind you sticking up army lists (after all they do), the only mind you reproduceing the rules and fluff, more specificaly scaning or similar. Even if I got an army list for and army it would not be much good with out the rules and codex. And lets face it, your gona need minitures !

-Cen

[Maximus Decimus]

those r excellent tips chump. hehe another tip when facing space wolves, if i were u never ever ever let blood claws charge your men even if their fire warriors cause 4 attacks each on charge = 40 attacks and trust me after combat is over nothing will be left standing. also recommend sticking something at the back of ur army like kroot so space wolf scouts working behind enemy lines with assault weapons/power weapons dont start having fun with ur suits/tanks/warriors. finally always always always take crises suits with twin linked plasma rifles against +3 foes.

- ur not so friendly and rather ruthless Space Wolf Lord maybe looking to start tau sometime just offering some advice.

[z-beam]

tyranids are my favorites, i got 2000 pts worth of hive horrors

my next favorite is a combined iron warriors/traitor gaurd force of 3000 pts. i needed a lot of variations to be satisfied my mates never know what they are facing (basilisk ALLWAYS).

ultramarines fith company (black shoulder rims) next up. 2500pts

and finally the pesky dark eldar. 1500. my girlfreinds choice.

[Iron Warrior]

yes basilisks are great expecially with 3 defilers hehe love those ordinance rounds i also have 3000 points of iron warriors (not including the termies im using now in my amylist)

and like the group above i aso use tau but unlike most im all tau (no kroot) and my army stands fine against marines (in fact one game i lost almost all my army to deathwing but my gun drones, they destroyed squad after squad of the deathwing, guy rolled really bad, i find that ironic they save against railguns but die against gundrones, thats really funny everyone else thought so to even the dark angel player) so in my opinion who needs kroot
:p

[Aradiel]

hey, Iron Warrior

you are using the terminators as retinues to your HQs?
if so you are using only 2 elites (2x3 obliterators)
why dont you take them in 3x2 obliterators squads?
you give your oponent 3 targets instead of 2, you can shoot at 3 diferent targets, or shoot all at the same if needed.
i do that and works great (until i manage to buy 3 more obliterators. 9 obliterators....muha ha ha)

[z-beam]

id go more obliterators if the bodies were a bit more varied. i hate having "clone troopers". yeah i got a defiler as well, and those two (basilisk) make a nice team.

my hive tyrant is a killer tho. wings froma warmaster highelf dragonprince transformed it into the best psychological weapon i have ever feilded. although the wings dont get used until the tyrant gaurd meatsheild has been cut down. it ensures the survival of the larger swarms of hormagaunts get to reach theyre targets.

it would be nice to see an inclusion of some of the prohibitivly expensive models be available in the rts, not necissarily titans but baneblades and haruspex' are units that could definatly be usefull but not all powerfull.

[No Surrender]

If the Relic team go by the HW/HW2 design philosophy, then there will be a "ultimate" unit for every side that takes so much rescources and time to obtain that if your opponent gets it you know you've done something wrong in letting them accumulate that many rescources. These units also need the proper support or will be cut to shreds by more specialized units.

[ankara halla]

Originally posted by ObsceneName
demiurgs
are not squats
there short and reptilian
many people wonder what killed squats
and its called hive feet capitilism
well tyranids just ate the squat empire to make it short

I seem to recall reading something very different.
Yes, the reptilians you are referring are rumored to be a future race to be released at some point. Kinda like a mix between Skaven and Lizardmen.

The Demirugs, however, are Squats which have left their stronghold worlds on massive mining ships to plunder the Galaxy of it´s mineral wealth. And the Tyranids didn´t eat the Squats (at least not all of them) as the race is spreadout throughout the Imperium.

Linky 1 about Squats and Demiurgs (http://www.ifelix.co.uk/newsg.html)
News: Squats are back....

Possibly one of the most eagerly anticipated messages from Jervis along with the annoucement of Epic:A...

News from Jervis... begins!

With regard the Squats, it's important to know that some work is being done in the Studio on an updated version of the Squats called the Demiurg (Demiurg ships have already appeared via Fanatic for BFG, by the way). However, we're not going to be able to do an Epic Demiurg army until *after* the Demiurg are released for 40K. Before anyone gets too excitied, the Demiurg are not slated in for a release yet, but are one of the 'possible new races' that the 40K team are thinking of doing. To put this in context, they were also one of the races up for release when the decision to go with the Tau was made, and there is just as good chance that a different race will get the green light next time round too. None the less, just the fact that the Studio *may* do them means that Fanatic can't.

On the other hand I do want to do *something* to keep all of those players that already have Epic Squat armies off my back ; ) What I really need for Epic magazine is something more akin to the section 8.0 army list appendix, but specifically about the Squats. Such an army would need to work in two ways; it would need a set of data sheets for the old Squat models for use in scenario and/or campaign play (i.e. _NO_ points values!!!), and it would need to list what the models 'count as' in one of the exisiting Grand Tournament army lists. My instinct is to go for the Guard list as the template for the counts as units. In other words, in GT play a Squat army would use the Imperial Guard army list, and Squat models would count as units from the Guard army list, eg Cyclops 'counts as' a Shadowsword, Colossus counts as a Baneblade, etc etc etc.

What do you think guys? Could any of you come up with such a list? If you could I could probably get Andy C to write some background to go along with it that would at least mention the idea of Demiurgs and what may lie for the Squats in the future...

Linky 2 about Squats and Demiurgs (http://www.inisfail.com/40konline/gw-news.html)
The official word on Demiurgs is that they will remain a Battlefleet Gothic race for now._ However, if they become quite popular, they may well see the light of day in Warhammer 40,000, after the current range of codices and models lined up is completed._ Demiurgs are being seen as a replacement for Squats by the players, but no designer will comment on this, at least officially.

[z-beam]

no surrender: this is good news.

it would be nice to see three levels of orky warmachines ,killer cans,dreadnoughts and stompas.

the eldar superheavies are the same chassis as theyre transport so thats easy and space marine thunderhawks are a definite thing to hope for

[Iron Warrior]

you want to know how to kill SPACE PUPPIES hehe
its really easy , its called ordinance ive won lots of battles with my IW againts the puppies using all my lists ive beat them
ive even destroyed them with tau so its not hard to kill them its like killing any other chapter or any other army you just have to figure out the tatics of ur enemies and use their weaknesses against them

[Maximus Decimus]

i never once stated "no one can beat space wolves" yes i know every army can be beaten using developed tactics, there is no army that exists in the game that is unbeatable. i know the eldar are the number one winners of tournaments with space wolves in 2nd but that doesnt mean eldar or space wolves are super hard.

for example i know a very neat trick with wolves to defeat ordance heavy armies being guard or iron warriors.

[Iron Warrior]

i was really making fun of puppies not just your army i just hate puppies(notice i dont call them wolves) but yes there are many different ways to take out ordinance armies and all others in that case :) just depending on how good you are with tatics but we have a player that plays puppies and uses ragnar every time he just attacks blindly across the table using the same tatics every time and uses ragnar every time the rest of us believe that the fang keeps on cloning ragnar just because he has died so many times :) but unlike him you more then likey use tatics so it might be different fighting you (see a compliment to you not the puppies) :)

[Maximus Decimus]

thanks but personnaly i hate using special characters cause theyr just a drainage in pts and they rlly need a new ragnar model lol. yeah well i think u should teach the kid how to play therefore making it more fun for ya and u rlly ought to feel the true fangs of the wolf!. alright ttyl

[Iron Warrior]

well the kid is 27 and you cant teach an old DOG new tricks
what i was thinking of doing is taking his army list and showing him how to fight using tatics while killing his army with one just like it in fact i would have to sub the mobels but i believe i can do it

and besides i think it would be great to see the look on his face when i fight him with his army

[DarthFelth]

my tactics are simple, stick my point axe of Khorne in yay head, if your still moving keep on hitting yay with me axe until you stop, works every time ;)

But you gotta love Rhinos ;)

[Iron Warrior]

you know that really sounds khorney
but i have a nice answer for your axe hehe im an obliterator holding a lascannon to your head :lol:
all thats left is your axe
hey puppy players hows scrappy :lol:
puppy power :p

[evil_turtle]

Well, I'm very new to the 40k game(just started last week). I started with the necrons. I'm just wondering why does everyone here not want them as a must have in the upcoming game, and dislikes them in general?

[DarthFelth]

bah, i'll cut your trigger hand off with me axe then :p KHORNY POWER!!! :p

[Zigguratei]

Evil Turtle... I don't think that eveyone here plays necrons evil_turtle. (?) I know that many great players do.. but the thing is that generally the most popular armies get represented. Also the necrons aren't an army that many can identify with being cold, unfeeling machines lead around by god like characters! Also Necrons are.. differnt, meaning they have a differnt play style and sometimes that scares some players. They have to develope differnt tactics to fight them, and thus are not assured a win with their space muts, blood suckers, "all I do is hit stuff with big axe and assualt" Khorne Bezerkers, runaway and bombard from orbit guard, "I can take 3 Ordnace templates a turn IW or nine Oblits" and so forth.

[Maximus Decimus]

ppl also dont want them in the game cause they simply arnt one of the core races and arnt as involved with the universe then the other races, this also goes back to 1st edition.

[DarthFelth]

Originally posted by Zigguratei
, runaway and bombard from orbit guard, "I can take 3 Ordnace templates a turn IW or nine Oblits" and so forth.

dude, so can any other chaos army ;)

[Maximus Decimus]

zigg 9 oblits? im sorry but thats just power gaming talk about taking the fun and challange out of a game. tsk tsk tsk

[cenpjas]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
those r excellent tips chump. hehe another tip when facing space wolves, if i were u never ever ever let blood claws charge your men even if their fire warriors cause 4 attacks each on charge = 40 attacks and trust me after combat is over nothing will be left standing. also recommend sticking something at the back of ur army like kroot so space wolf scouts working behind enemy lines with assault weapons/power weapons dont start having fun with ur suits/tanks/warriors. finally always always always take crises suits with twin linked plasma rifles against +3 foes.

- ur not so friendly and rather ruthless Space Wolf Lord maybe looking to start tau sometime just offering some advice.

Its true about blood claw assaults, they do not unduly worry an old tau hand like me, as there easyer to kill than some things. It is true you can never stop all close combat, in particular with races like SM: wolfs, the trick is to prevent one assault faze become two or three assault phases. (e.g. good spaceing of your troops).

I'll confess that my local shop does mostly play with the new assault rules and new vehicle rules, which most agree after playing them for awhile are better. However Scouts with there odd power weapon, and other nasty things are a right pain the the butt to a mostly static formation. I do like to try to move my line 13" from the board edge or keep somthing in reserve (like cheap IG) to prevent my better units being shot then assaulted.

Funny anuff, I have no problems with wolf scouts when I use my speed freaks, as they are usualy on your side of the table by end of turn 1 (scorcha can move 12" and shoot, 24" and do nothing, with red paint this is 13" and 25", and we can alwas add a turbo boosta for an extra D6, on a 4+ you can not shoot, but if your moveing 24/25" it makes little diffrence). At 400 points I can not justify turbo boostas.

As the most important suggestion about Tau XV8's using twin Plasma rifles VS 3+ opponents. As a genral rule in my shop, more by mutual assent than any athority (no i did not mean mutual consent), that you tend to play all commers with the same army. Thus I find I do not have anuf dice to take down guard with just plasma rifles, where as the 4+ save of IG storm troopers is no use when I use missile pods. I would happly argue that the Missile pod is just a good a weapon as the Plasma Rifle if used right, its certainly more flexable.

As mentioned above VS space marines, killing there fast units is a priority, now normaly this is taken as Rinos and Assault troops with jumppacks, however as a very nice chap showed me with 3 land speeders with heavy bolters....., there is no troops to return fire. (yip, when you have squads of 8 FW's, 9 dice needing 3's and killing on 2+ can ruin your carpace armour.) Thus the extra S and range of misisle pods is nice, its also nice VS support weapons with black guardians, as I belive they have a 4+ save and there weapons range is 36", so you can bounce forward shoot and run way. (and remember you get 2 dice per suit).

The best mix of XV8's I have seen was 3xTwin linked Plasma and another unit 3xTwin Missile pods. It was so effective because you knew exacly what each unit was for, and it was very good at it. The sneeky chap had his HQ with Flamer and twin fusion blaster (it tended to stay quite close to troops and was on its own with two sheild drones).

If you are gona start Tau, I would suggest the box sets as its the only way to get a good number of Drones. I would also suggest buying more steath team leaders than you strickly need as its very handy way of getting sheild drones. Avoid heavy drones untill you have alot of experiance. (and don't waste your time on a Sky Ray..., I did, really nice looking but rules are to poor to use, might yet use it as more and more people are using flyers at my shop.) I have'nt tryed out the Tau flyers yet, but the though of droping in 3 full stealth teams from that lovely big flyer makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Awhile ago I herd that Forgeworld were working on a sorta flack gun for the hammerhead, looks a bit like a Hydra but with longbarreld Burst Cannon instead. ( I heard this roumor from a chap from forgeworld, but it was over 12 months ago).

As for 27 year olds (like me) yes we can still learn new tricks, infact its usualy the older players that give me problems. (you know you've got good when chaps that come 2nd in turniments refuese to play your Tau army with there Turniment Nid army... :), and no I am not a lame throw my stuff out a the pram sorta chap. And no I can not spell to save my self.

I would love to grow a nid army, as I have played with them a few times, but untill I grow a money tree I will have to wait.


HAS ANYBODY NOTICED, the really annoying tendanceys of IAL or maybe better know as Interactive Army List V2.0, I see they have finaly admited that its releast, yet now patches!!! -arrggg and it really needs 'em.

If you do get this product, make sure your running XP, as its a pain in the ass on 98 or Me. Alwas count your points up your self after creating an army as its quite often more expensive than the codex price, and expect not to bealbe to do things that are perfectly legal in the codex. (and expect somethings to be named wrong.)

I am useing the Enemies of the Imperium version, maybe the other one is better.



-cen

[Maximus Decimus]

alright thanks ill keep that in mind, err but i do hate plasma rifles lol when facing tau.

[DarthFelth]

i still havent faced a tau army with my khorne army, and i ant read the new vehicle rules :(

[cenpjas]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
alright thanks ill keep that in mind, err but i do hate plasma rifles lol when facing tau.

Trust me, when you have Tau, you will have a new found respect for Heavy Bolters. Plesantly you will find Fire Warrior combat with basic guardians and IG to be not as bad as you though.

I have know a few Space Wolf players, in genral the older ones are better sports. In particular because the lower number and higher cost of wolf models makes it much more painful to lose 'em to plasma death = Still no more than is due to an imperial force that gave Chaos the Preditor Anialator and Destructor just to avoid death..... DAMM them Destructors!!

TODAYS TOP TIP :

Buy only Hammerheads, and keep the weapons modular (a minor bit of work on the front turret so you can swap the tarrgeting array with burst cannon) and you have hammerhead/devilfish depending on your mood.

NB: the new Vehicle rules and Assault rules should be in Warhammer 40K V4 rules, due at the end of summer.

-cen

[Tribunal]

Meh, I remember when the Codex Space Wolves first came out, right around the same time that the Codex Tyranids came out. All he did was brag about the wolves and how great they were, and since he had access to all of the models he needed they were. Not all of the Tyranid models were out at that time, and it was a long fight, because I had to plan what to do with my hordes and how to compensate for that new dreddie running amuck (almost none of my troops could get past that armor!).

It was a close game, and I think I would have edged him out but in the last round of play, the last roll of the dice I had, I managed to take out his hero, who also happened to be a psyker. It so happened that my mission card called for me to take out his psyker, and it was all over.

The closest Tyranid game though was against another friend using an eldar army (genestealers vs striking scorpions and banshees, all about the melee). He was a newer player with a lot of good models, and due to that I should have walked over him, but on the first turn he managed to take out my carnifex in one, freak, shot. I was counting on that to take out that dreddie (shuriken catapults, flamer and missile launcher, iirc). It was one of those games where you had to readjust EVERYTHING because of that little evil thing called a dice.

[EnderWiggin]

Could we sticky this it seems like this thread has taking off :D

[DarthFelth]

thats why your game was so close, you relied 2 much on one model ;)

[EnderWiggin]

Plus we are first for the highest post count in the forum and third for the most number of views!

[Tribunal]

(laughs)
My army wasn't nearly the size of his army -- I did not have the money to spend on my forces like some other frien