Blood Angels codex on the way?

[DinoDoc]

That said, here are NEW RUMORS that I think nobody have posted in here yet. They come from the italian forum "GW TILEA", and the guy who brought them to the community claims to be reliable (of course it doesn't mean he actually is ).

here we go:

-The BA 'dex is DONE and complete already.

-New conversion kits similar to the ones made for the space wolves. These kits are said to be EXTRAORDINARY (I mean.. beautiful!), with a level of detail similar to that of the models in space hulk (or even better). (PS this seems quite certain, it has been confirmed by my local GW seller, who also stated some big news about BA may be revealed at the italian games day).

SOME informations about the rules

-The codex will allow the player to field a top notch assault army: assault squads will be a troop choice, with options similar to those of the new gray hunters in the SW dex: 2Xspecial weapons and no heavy weapons at all (of course). Sergents will be similar to those of the SM dex (more options: tunder hummer, LC and such).

- a psionic power called "vortex of blood", or something like that, will give the caster a CC attacks bonus equal to the number of models in base contact (or even in combat radius?! but it would be too powerful..)

-New indipendent characters.

I can't assure these rumors are true, of course. I just TRIED to translate them in english and posted them here.

Ah, date of release: march, after the tyrs.

Again, sorry for my English From B&C Blood Angels forums. Existance of the codex was confirmed by Harry at Warseer via cryptic comments which were: Blood Angels are only half the story.

Thoughts?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Are they going to make a good Death Company this time? Revert rending to the way it used to be, allow them to take power weapons, and make the black rage mean something for a change, like give DC marines extra charging distance, +1 St and +1 A or something. I mean, we keep reading that the Rage makes their strength insanely high, and yet they use the same statline as any other Space Marine? Preposterous.

We will have to see.

[The_Guardman]

I hope they will not go too much on the assaut thing. The BA strive to be a codex chapter, after all, and fight their genetic instinct. While their assault moves are rightfully feared, and the Death Company is their hailmark unit, the BA still use the same amount of tactical, assault and devastator squads as the smurfs. Whit similar tactics.

As result, I would prefer just a smurf codex whit some change, something not so different from the old index astartes articles.
See, SW and BT refute the codex and use their own peculiar structure. But BA follow the codex as much as possible.

[Telliphas]

Hmm the conversion kits would be brilliant if the SW ones are anything to go by.
The extra special weapons in the ASM is very welcome.
New IC - hopefully they re-do Tycho and make him more dynamic looking and suitably attired in DC trinkets and icons.

March is so far away

[SDK]

Yeah well Tycho went from being killed in the DC (usable as a character) to the old golden Tycho who hates Orks. With that said, BA really do need a dex of their own. (so do DA, their codex is the horrible now with the new SM codex).

What I'd like to see BACK:

-Furious charge for EVERYONE or at least the ability to buy it for all veterans/characters.
-DC selection the way it used to be and the ability to give them power weapons.
-Roll a D6 for every unit, on a 1 they move foward D6 inches.
-Lemartes' old rules with channeling the black rage. His current ones are ass.
-SANGUINARY HIGH PRIESTS!!! Where in heck did these guys go?!

What I'd like to see added:
-2 special weapons for every assault squad
-Same statlines for generic SM equipment as in the vanilla dex
-Make Dante an acutal badass, he is 700+ years older than Calgar for Christ's sake!
-Better psychic power for the librarians. I know they're trying to get away from the cc demon librarian but these are the BA.
-A few quick special rules for other chapters such as the degenerate Flesh Tearers. FT had some crazy rules from IA but that is ancient history.


I really hope this is true. I have 40-50 metal Fleshtearers shoulder pads from before the bits ordering got killed. I also have a really nice pro painted FT chaplain with a jump pack. I'd love to finally get around to making my Flesh Tearers super dedicated assault army. My old BA jump packers are gone :( Plus the fluff for the Flesh Tearers is one of the most tragic of all. Down to 400 men and almost none of them make it past 100 years of age due to their degenerate geneseed.

[DinoDoc]

More cryptic comments:
Could you explain this a little more :angel:?

Or i think we are going to start speculating about the most odd things, like the return of the Grey Knights or Inquisition :D

Now that's a whole nother story.:D
You are not all wrong.


Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D

[Xenith]

I hope they will not go too much on the assaut thing. The BA strive to be a codex chapter, after all, and fight their genetic instinct. While their assault moves are rightfully feared, and the Death Company is their hailmark unit, the BA still use the same amount of tactical, assault and devastator squads as the smurfs. Whit similar tactics.

The dark angels get special stuff to let you use entire 1st/2nd company armies, the blood angels list gives you the ability to make the 7th/8th companies. yes, they use the same units as codex astartes, but even the UM 8th company has 100 assault marines in it!

Id assume that the BA get as much love as the space wolves, if not more, being, after all, better than them (ceramic armour on standby) With what logan got, Dante should be a real monster, and will pay the points for it.

What Id love to see is the option to have all BA special characters with/without jump packs, then release 'reimagined' models of the respective characters. and give tycho a power weapon, ffs!

Ill expect Dante, Mephiston, Tycho, Moriar, Lemartes, Corbulo, a new character in terminator armour - Id guess one of the named ones from the space hulk books.

I liked the way the old DC worked, by rolling for them. Rather than 'the 11th member of my tactical squad is a nutcase' all the time, I rolled, sweet, a 6! Veteran sergeant Raphael of the 6th squad has been overcome! Quick, repaint the armour and send for the chaplain!

Id imagine a special character rule that would allow you to reroll the DC dice.

[SDK]

Rerolling the DC dice... I dunno then that SP would be taken EVERY GAME by every BA army ever. Sadly I think that the current DC rules will stay just because that is the newest version and they wouldn't have changed it if it wasn't going to go that way permanently I don't think. Who knows.

I also agree that the DC special characters NEED to have the jump pack option. And Dante pretty much has to be the baddest ass of them all. He's the oldest and most experienced SM commander there is BY FAR. He's twice and again as old as Calgar has resisted the Black Rage for over a millenia... Honestly if I was GW I'd give him at LEAST WS7, BS6. He's for sure been around long enough to get that good.

[SeventhStorm]

I think they should give Dante the type of blade that Kor'Sarro Khan has, where its instant death on a 6 to wound..

[DelphicFist]

I think Dante should be on the order of Logan. CC monster and a lot of army wide special rules......and his Perdition pistol should still be badass.

DC I think is mostly fine as it is. Maybe some new rules for marines going nuts in game. ie: if your squad loses combat by so many wounds and you still have a few guys left they use the rules for DC.

[Exetus]

As an avid Blood Angels player, what I'd really like to see them include are special rules for a successor (read Flesh Tearer-centric) list. You could keep the Blood Angels/Angels Sanguine/Angels Encarmine all much more Codex, while provided a much heavier assault list for the Flesh Tearers and their ilk... In this case, not only do the Deth Company get factored into the cost, but you also HAVE to roll for each squad to reflect their ever-increasing number of Astartes falling to prey to the Black Rage.

As far as characters go, Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo and Lemartes should stay, but Corbulo should be given a chainsword along the lines of an eviscerator (he's THE sanguinary high priest after all). Then I'd like to see a terminator character, Seth and/or Carnavon which provide us with additional options for a Chapter Master or High Chaplain. I know that's a lot to ask and I don't expect any of it, but it would still be nice...

As for how they do the codices, it's fallen into a very predictable cycle of SM/non-SM/SM... well 'nids in the early part of the year followed by the last remaining full codex update for the chapter codices that they started way-back-when.

[SDK]

Problem with making the FT assault heavy is that then everyone would be them and not the BA which is extremely not fluffy as there are only about 400 of them left total. I do agree that Seth would be a total badass.

If anyone else remembers the IA rules for FT you'll remember how completely ****ed up the FT are and how amazing it is that they haven't been wiped out by the Grey Knights yet.

[Exetus]

I loved the FT army because it was the way I played and I had no problems not taking a lot of armor. Some people think that it's not very fluffy, but I found them incredibly fluffy... assault-oriented, few HW and prone to getting the shit kicked out of them by armor or HW until they go in close and then BAM!!! Even so, they still weren't CC masters like genestealers and the like... they just got there fast and hit hard on the charge... not too hard to defend if you play your own cards right. The real problem was with them fielding 3x DC dreads as well...

[SDK]

No, THEY are extremely fluffy, seeing them all over the place would not be as they are barely 400 strong and falling. Not to mention Seth is EXTREMELY reclusive. They know they are doomed, they are just staving it off for as long as possible. If anyone is about to fall to Khorne its these guys.

[Ciaphas Cain]

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about a new BA codex. I play an Assaulty Blood Ravens army right now, so I guess if the BA codex is good enough, I could switch to that. Though I could never justify using the Death Company as Blood Ravens. Mreh. We needs a minidex.

P.S. Slightly off topic again- You know what the Space Marines need? An assault version of Pedro Kantor. Vanguard Vets as scoring units? Yessir.

[Duke 3259]

I most certainly hope BA get their own codex, as I wasn't really satisfied with a mere Chapter Approved update. I also agree with the consensus that Seth should be included as a commander, as he has really become a cult figure. :)

Minidexes sound like a good idea, but you get more fluff and art into a normal codex.

[Xenith]

I just hada peek at the SW codex today, and if this is the way codexes are going, then Im going to be very happy!

The sagas thing is excellent, as well as the 'individual characters' rulings, fluffy, and help game balance!

Just wondering if theres something like that that could be done for Blood Angels?

Like if they ever fail a morale check by 5 or more, the unit automatically goes insane and becomes death company, getting FnP and rending? It happens...

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Like if they ever fail a morale check by 5 or more, the unit automatically goes insane and becomes death company, getting FnP and rending? It happens...Can they actually do that? SM Ld is 8, so to fail it by 5 or more without modifiers (and there's not a lot of them in 40k to be honest) they'd need to roll a 13.

[Xenith]

Why would you ignore modifiers? There has to be a reason they flip, right?

Losing combat gives negative Ld modifiers.

I chose 5 as it means they wouldnt go crazy from being shot at, but would be if they were overwhelmed in combat, which is what can happen to BA. They just flip out at the whole futility of the situation, accept that theyre already dead, see a floaty good looking angel, then kick some ass.

[SDK]

You mean... they'd get the insane heroism result on failing by 5 instead of rolling a 2? Me like.

I still want the Fleshtearers Chapter Approved special rules to make a return. I proxied my old jump packing BA army as a FT one once under those rules and I had something like a 12 strong DC with 4 or 5 power weapons. Needless to say I won that game lol.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Losing combat gives negative Ld modifiers.Apologies, I'm still thinking in a 3rd ed mentality. Haven't played an awful lot of 40k for a fair while.

[Varellian]

I just hada peek at the SW codex today, and if this is the way codexes are going, then Im going to be very happy!
I don't. Have you seen the amount of rules which aren't completely finished off to a satisfactory standard?

The sagas thing is excellent, as well as the 'individual characters' rulings, fluffy, and help game balance!
I agree with this though. However, I'd prefer to see the return of one per army things - i.e Adamantine Mantle, Holy Relic Etc.

Just wondering if theres something like that that could be done for Blood Angels?
Unesure, we'll have to wait and see.

Like if they ever fail a morale check by 5 or more, the unit automatically goes insane and becomes death company, getting FnP and rending? It happens...
And roll a 13+ on a 2D6? Alternatively, having lost a combat, they THEN gain FNP and Rending?

[SDK]

You'd think that if the BA lose combat and make a "special roll" they would get FnP and Rending maybe for just the next phase out of shame for having lost combat. Yes no maybe so?

[Xenith]

I havent looked fully through the SW dex yet, I know there are a few grey areas, but dont know the extent.

My feelings were just that the quality of the book, overall, and what they were trying to do with it pleased me.

read my above post regarding the 13+ on 2d6. Its meant to only ever happen when things are so very dire for a Blood Angel, and even then on very rare occasions. Its fluffy, and certainly less overpowered than giving every model in the army counterattack. Basically, anything that can beat a MEQ unit in combat by a huge amount is going to have power weapons anyway, so FnP is moot, and with 1 extra attack giving tac marines a total of 2, I really cant see rending doing much.

Meh, was just a thought. Still, it makes more sense to me than having lone wolves as single Elite choices.

The DC will probably get some balls fluff about seeking only death, and the BA player loses points if theyre still alive. Meh.

[Tinweasel]

Awright - I went through and stripped all the off-topic, potentially racist, and Blood Angels (and Successors) non-relevant posts. You know what? This thread got trimmed by about 1/3rd in length. Very discouraging... This is not a DA, DE, DH, or even Dark Side of the Moon thread. The topic is fairly straightforwards, actually.


This thread is going into martial law as a result of the above: if posts start cropping up again that have nothing to do with the Blood Angels or relevant comparisons/ideas, strictly mention <X army should get a Codex first> and other irrelevant and similarly pointless crap, or even talk about what Games Workshop should be doing from a business standpoint as opposed to what they are doing (or are rumored to be doing regarding the Blood Angels) - this whole thing is going to get locked down and flushed. Has anyone considered that there may be folks in the employ of Games Workshop that might like to read a valid thread about the Blood Angels, also?

Be kind to your fellow Members who are interested in and genuinely want to discuss a possible Blood Angels-type Codex release - don't be an intentional asshat, play nice, and please think about what you're about to post before you click the "Post" button? Thanky kindly!

[Xenith]

Ok, so rather than wishlisting, what realistic improvements could be made to the current BA minidex to make the army better overall, in line with the SW dex?

Adding power weapons to corbulo and tycho, for one. I particularly like the eviscerator idea for corbulo, mentioned earlier.

Make the exsanguinator different to a narthecium, but make it actually useable, rather than the current 3rd ed incarnation. Maybe FnP with a single reroll, but if the reroll is failed, the priest takes a wound also?

Since chaplains stole the rules that High Priests used to get, they need something new, but what? Id guess generic FnP to the unit they attach to. Quite powerful. Id also like a model of a high priest in terminator armour...

[SDK]

Make the Sanguinary High Priest an upgrade for the Chaplain. Or... if Corublo is THE Sanguinary High Priest then make it just Sanguinary Priest Like reclusiarch=chaplain and master of sanctity=Sanguinary Priest. Make the Sang Priest upgrade=furious charge to the attached unit.

Def add power weapons to corublo and tycho, not quite sure why in hell they don't have them.

I dunno I liked the 3rd ed exsanguinator, ignore 1st wound and then ability to attempt to ignore subsequent wounds.


Also, fix the DC. Either them a unit you HAVE to buy like how you have to buy an Emperor's Champion in a BT army, or go back to the old rules. Having to pay premium points for every other unit because of the DC shoots the whole BA army right in the foot.

[Xenith]

There are several Sanguinary High Priests, so it is feasable. High preists were a HQ choice in 3rd ed dex, with regular priests taking the role of apocs in honour guard units.

The red grail currently gives FC, so unless they change that, then I dont think priests will get that rule, although it would be good. What about preferred enemy? Or does that take away from Dante?

The problem with the exsanguinator was that you couldnt use it if the priest was in combat, which is silly for a blood angels army, and would not work at all in 5th due to the pile in rules. Its only good for a single round of shooting before the honour guard get into combat.

Like the chappy upgrade idea, as they basically do the same thing. Although maybe a combines entry, rtather than upgrade, like :Chaplain/High Priest xxxpts

When its done, my army will feature a High Priest leading the force, using Lemartes' rules, naturally.

How do you reckon Dante would be upgraded, being oldest living SM and all.

Id say WS7, Eternal warrior, and makes VAS scoring units...

[Evil-Termite]

I havent looked fully through the SW dex yet, I know there are a few grey areasNice Pun!

-> On Topic
I played a chaos list last night with lots of raptors, and they are so much more vulnerable than chaos marines in rhinos. I really hope they price the assault squads right since they are so much more vulnerable than regular marines in rhinos.

The rumor about melta guns for assault squads sounds GREAT to me!

[Xenith]

Hehe, thanks!

Very true. Initially, the all jump packing army seems amazingly cool, but its so fragile. A single battlecannon can ruin your day.

As ever, the fully mech assault armies are the most 'competitive' (I hate the term!), but with more stuff being geared toward anti mech in new dexes (new nid genus designed to cope with 5th ed mech and cover, hydra flak thingy), all army types should be valid!

[SDK]

Yes, Dante DEFINITELY gets WS7, he is 1000 freaking years old. I'd like to see T5 also for maybe something like, his fused ribs are so hardened after a millenium that its damn near impossible for things to get through. Broken bone heals stronger than it was before the break and Dante probably has hundreds of wounds to the chest (and broken bones all over his body at some point or another) over his lifetime so this is totally legit IMO. Also LOVE the idea of Vanguard (or the BA equivilant) counting as scoring.

I also say make Tyco DC again. Make him some sort of complete psycopath but lucid enough to control the rest of the DC if he passes a Ld test so you don't have to move directly towards the nearest unit all the damn time. Not sure what his real "bonus" to the DC would be, maybe allow up to 3 of them to take power weapons/pfists out of the armory?

As for the rest of the DC, I stick to my guns on making them a mandatory 0-1 elites choice. Pay for them ON THEIR OWN so the rest of the army isn't at a premium points value.

Hmmm, what else... Supercharged Engines. Don't make them stall on a 1, make something go wrong with the motor on a 1. Like the superchargers feed too much boost into the motor or a gasket lets go from an improper tune (machine spirit has a bad hair day) and throws a rod out the side of the block. Vehicle can only move at half speed or something... Or let the player choose to make them fast instead of always having to test. Nitrous bottles anyone? On a 1 they fry the rings and the engine is reduced to 50% power. You see where I am going with this? Plus then I can put a "Go Baby Go" button on BA Rhinos lol.

Um... FLESHTEAERS MUST GET LOVE! I am serious I will write GW a very very stern letter if they don't hook up the FT lol.

1- Seth. Get his ass in there. Terminator armor, dual LCs, furious charge (conferred on command squad), fearless (also conferred on command squad), rending. If you use him you MUST use FT army rules although you can substitute him for your own successor chapter like you can with the regular SM special characters.

2- Old style DC selection with the Index Astartes special rules they used to have. FT geneseed is so devolved that you roll for the DC like we used to do in addition to having to buy the 0-1 out of an elites slot. This not only makes for a HUGE DC, but in the old rules, on a 4+ the model chosen was ALWAYS the sergeant/vet sergeant and could take power weapon/pfists for free. Also they had to roll again on a 5+ not a 6+. This makes for a gynormous DC full of power weapons. Also very few people would risk paying the points for terminators which actually wound up being really fluffy since they are undermanned and underequipped anyway.

3- FT battle cry. Any non fearless unit assaulted by FT must pass a Ld check or fight at half initiative rounding up for the remainder of the phase. This only happens on the initial charge.

4- FT special Character chaplain. Cannot remember his name for the life of me but he is called "Guardian of the Lost". If he is taken, then he MUST lead the DC and they get "the red thirst" special rule and are completely completly psychotic maniacs. Not sure what speical rules they'd get...

Wow that was a rant... I apologize... But I think I had some good ideas.

[Xenith]

Lemartes is called the "guardian of the lost"

Seriously, though, this is going to be codex BA, not codex FT. They didnt make up rules for successor chapter chapter masters in DA, SW, so why would they here? I stand by that they may make a 1st company captain character. probably one of the named marines from space hulk, who Id guess may have claws. Use one of the exisiting named characters as the FT ones.

Also, I cant see DC being a compulsory choice.. The amoutn of DC present is directly proportional to the amount of marines. If DC were compulsory and paid for normally, then youd have 1000pt lists with 2x5man assault marines and 10xdc+chappy armies, which is totally unfluffy.

[SDK]

Ft special character chaplain is Carnarvon "Watcher of the Lost". Lol close.

As for your problem with DC, how is that any different from now? Under the present rules with your example, a player gets the 2 models from the assault squads and then can just buy 8 more if they want. At least if players have to pay for the 2 compulsory DC it doesn't jack the points up for the rest of the army. Maybe it works out to being the same I dunno but if the DC are to stay as a mandatory choice for a BA army the points have to come from somewhere. Might as well make the DC into a real unit with points values.

Or go back to the old rules and make the penalty for having DC the loss of manpower from units which, IMO, is a much better method and way fluffier.

[Gabriel Angelos]

You know.. they should do a Blood Raven codex for the white dwarf... just as they did with Blood Angels prior.

But still I am glad that the BA are finally gettin a revamped hahaha.