US Citizens might want to look

[Walker]

And everyone else as well, for that matter.

There's too much to be told here. I'll link you to the relative places:

Here is the post that informs (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=728226&STARTPAGE=1)

And here is the bill itself (http://www.politechbot.com/docs/hollings.090701.html).

Make sense of the bill if you can, but the post outlines the possibilities uncomfortably stark.

Discuss? Everyone else is, but I'd only want to hear what people had to say here. And, a few other places.


When alls said and done? Of course, it won't happen. Yet. The important word is yet. This can only possibly serve as a pointer to the future, a vane to tell which way the wind is blowing.

As someone somewhere else said, "Come on over to Canada... we've got plenty of room."


EDIT: Bogged down. Hot potato. Wired news. (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,50702,00.html)

[Coldblade]

jeez, i was browsering a couple other forums and these things are poping up all over the net, baldurs gate, independence war, massassi you name it its all over the place very fast.

anyway my option on it is its bunch of bull that won't ever get passed, but if it gets passed my only comment is get ready for a internet war, linearly.

[Walker]

Originally posted by Coldblade
these things are poping up all over the net

Good. Spread the word. That shows us how powerful we could be, them how difficult we could be, and tells the world the story. Be vigilant.

[Coldblade]

ive been to what 9 fourms and sites already in the last what ten mins and spreading it

[Sajuukar]

I'm not sure if I fully understand what is going on here...
If all this stuff about custom made computers and non-secure connection is gonna be banned... well, why?

[Coldblade]

all done all 15 forums that i vist biweekly are all done, and my only comment is some of the forums are already begun to crash from the overload on post, only a couple has crashed but few also has slowed down big time. *cough*......


silver quasar, check the post that bought it forward i think that post describe it rather well imho. this is the one i am talking bout

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=728226&STARTPAGE=1

[hougy]

Let me get this straight, we are going to the height, if not already, of the technological industry? Excuse me, but what the fuck (sorry, mods) gives any damn person the right to ban building your own computer!? OK, if it was like this before, there would probably be no Windows, Linux, Mac...whatever. And No open source OS!?

OK, this is beyond imagination. The hell I will let the government tell me how to make a computer. For one it is none of their damn business, as far as I care they can shive that bill straight up their wazoo! Despite this gay homosexual bill I will continue on without this BS.

I don't think the governemt understands the power of the internet, hell if it can change laws it can sure as hell kick their ass outta the goverment...then they'll hafta pay taxes, outta work....see how they like it being treated like crap.

Sorry peeps but this is really getting to damn close to killing my freedom, as it is yours. And the hell I will stand down, I am now writing a letter to my Senator!

[zenogias]

Never wrote a senatorial letter before. Soon as I finish reading the bill, I'm firing off a letter to my Senators and Congressmen (If I can figure out who the hell they are).

Hmm, I smell something on the wind. Is it . . . could it be . . . yes! It is!

Revolution!

Nothing like fighting the Man to invigorate a guy.

[Mac_Bug]

I have my reservations about politicians and what lobbying can do anywhere in the world. But as of this moment I have enough faith in some of those dudes down at the jailhouse to keep their heads cool. If not for their understanding of the issues, the impossibility of enforcing such a thing.

Stupid things such as 'you are not allowed to install IE with 128 bit encryption outside of North America' (did cha know that made it illegal to carry your laptop outside of NA, I donno if its still in effect) is simply impossible to enforce. Those macrovision crap in your VCR and DVD supposedly is in all of the stuff on the shelves right now, though you could order stuff with them turned off online. It wouldn't be hard to implement this copyrights management crap, but as anyone will tell you, things like this simply DOES NOT WORK. It will only foster a new underground for the FBI to deal with, and the laws on intellectual property especially software is brutally inadequate in the US or anywhere else.

Given enough time, someone will get around it.

In security books written over 13 years ago, and perhaps even before that, experts then in the immature minipc market theorized a return to mainframe style computing in the name of security. They thought viruses were bad then.

None the less Microsoft is taking the next step to enforce software as a subscription, you can use your imagination as to how this law will help them enforce it. Before you say anything though, SUN Microsystems has been promising the end of the desktop computer for YEARS.

Hasn't happened yet, and the way this goes, will take 10 more years to get anywhere. BUt then, 10 years ago, um....

Perhaps we will see one day where all your applications are run off central servers with high speed connections bringing it in to you on your terminal. Thus in the process they make sure everything you use is copyrighted and paid for, and everything you insert is copyrighted and protected.

While the politicians may not know what they are talking about, but once they take a side, they're pretty good against each other. Just take a look at the Microsoft case, the businesses lobbied them pretty good.

Just how little faith do you Americans have in your own damn government anyway.

[Walker]

When legislation like this gets flung from the pit, then rightly, very little.

[zenogias]

Just how little faith do you Americans have in your own damn government anyway.
This is the same government that passed the U.S.A. Patriot Act. The same government being led by a warmongering little twit whose latest scheme is to restart the old nuclear arms race.

All someone needs to do is a tack a "terrorism" provision onto this, and all you foreign folks can kiss the America part of the Internet goodbye (and maybe your's all well, when the hackers and crackers start to take action).

[Dyntheos]

It'll never happen. At least in Australia. Governments here aren't voted in by lobby groups or powerful companies that made huge campaign contributions they are voted in by the people and are often kicked out just as quickly, some thing that America in its non compulsory voting system tends to forget.

Idiotic propositions it appears are still alive and well in America. Long live DisneyLand!!:dunce:

[Walker]

Gosh, even the immovable rock Dyntheos is stoked. We live in interesting times...

[Sajuukar]

Sheesh, sometimes I think that stuff like this might make hackers heroes even, if the government isn't careful about how much they limit the people's free flow of info.

[AlphaPrimate]

Senator Feingold has now been informed of this unconstitutional act.

By the way, isnt illegalizing computers built at home before this act could be passed an impos facto law.

[Maverick_3058]

Originally posted by Dyntheos
It'll never happen. At least in Australia. Governments here aren't voted in by lobby groups or powerful companies that made huge campaign contributions they are voted in by the people and are often kicked out just as quickly, some thing that America in its non compulsory voting system tends to forget.

Not I; If I had things my way, a significant portion of Congress would be drubbed out of politrix alogether. Nothing riles me more than seeing the sheep, err, my countrymen blindly following the doctrine and propoganda of The Party before what is best for their lazy arses and the nation.
Pitiz.

If and when I get the time, I'll boot something to Representative Pete Stark. Good thing I just did a large editorial paper on teh electoral college for engrish.://

p.s. @ };------------------------ for thr perceptive Dyn.;|

[Shin]

I have to say that that bill is the dumbest thing since the Segway Human Transporter.

...which, incidentally, is the dumbest thing since the solar-powered flashlight.

Is there some sort of contest as to who can make the stupidest ideas in the universe?

[Vaarok]

Oh shit. Holy shit. BAD! BAD!:argh:

[zenogias]

Hey now, the Segway is a working, efficient, clean transportation device, and the solar-powered flashlight is a device you recharge during the day with solar panels and use the during night.

This bill, however, is real and scary.


Note to all the non-Americans on the board: don't bitch about your countries -- at least you don't live here in good ol' U.S.A.

[Maverick_3058]

Originally posted by ceejayoz
Mav, your sig is oddly appropriate for this thread ;)

I believe in it wholeheartedly.:D

[hougy]

Im gonna get started on a letter tonight for zell miller and max cleveland (Democrats, makes it even worse).....


Anyone have any ideas what I should include?

oh btw, i put this on the cstrike message boards^-^

[Tronno]

Holy mother of Jeebus, I think society just hit a new low.

The media industry - patron of some of the most powerful news agencies in the world - wants to pass a bill. An awful bill. And it probably won't show up on TV.

I can feel the putrid aroma of conspiracy.

[Stripe7]

Existing digital equipment I belive is excluded. However if you have old parts left over and assemble a computer after the law passes you could be in violation.

Ticks me off that these companies are lobbying for laws that increases or preserves their profit margin at a cost to everyone else.

All new digital devices are to have this "technology" incorporated. This means the next NASA mission that gets put together will have to have this stupid hardware in it too. It means that IBM, SEQUENT, SUN Microsystems, etc.. will have to incorportate this into every computer they ship. I think this means that GPL will go bye bye, as any digital device that can run GPL software will have to have this POS in it but I doubt very much that it will ever come out in source code.

I can imagine that the NSA and CIA will insist that the cryptographiy used be easilly broken or that we will not be able to use the hardware/software encoder ourselves. I imagine it would not be to the national interest if "terrorists" using PC's had automatic hardware encryption of all data on their disks because of this law.

[Sajuukar]

I can feel the putrid aroma of conspiracy.

Conspiracy? I don't smell anything but the future....

I can picture it now... people migrating to mexico and canada because of their limitations on the right of free flow of knowledge!

[Ressev]

This ranks with the DCMA, another brilliant idea from idiots on behalf of the corporate ego.

Wonder what they will do when Americans are all jobless and can't buy their overpriced products? Oh, but wait, there is always the EU.

[Beast]

*thanks god that relic is in canada and he is in the uk*

[Langy]

People in other countries will be affected just as much as Americans by this. Note that ALL of the major computer manufacturers are American. It would be illegal for them to make things without that policeware on it. Also, the USA is the LARGEST market for consumer electronics in the world. Nobody will be making things specifically with Canada in mind, not to mention any of the other countries. Everyone will be making American-qualified goods. Sure, some things might not be American-qualified, but don't count on it. In any case, this bill will never pass. Microsoft wouldn't allow it. Intel wouldn't allow it. Hell, other countries wouldn't allow it, specifically Japan. Nobody wants this to happen except Hollywood and Disney, and neither of them are large markets these days compared with the electronics market.

[Mac_Bug]

I think you are missing something

In any case, this bill will never pass. Microsoft wouldn't allow it. Intel wouldn't allow it. Hell, other countries wouldn't allow it, specifically Japan.

I thought this very bill was supported by Intel and Microsoft. Microsoft has been working for a long time with the RIAA etc to bring digital rights management into Windows Media Player. Intel itself frankly have nothing really to lose, after all how much counter piracy features can you have with a CPU or a chipset?

As for other nations. While it is a fact that everything they sell here in Canada is compliant with the FCC regulations, they are all also compliant with Canadian whatever Commission's regulations as well out of the box. In canada for example, certain things can only be sold here if parts of it were made in Canada, and of course, don't forget the bilingual instructions, though these days they pack arabian japanese english spanish french all together on those manuals.

Europe itself has some different regulations when it comes to electronics I'm sure, for all intended purposes, the EU may not even ALLOW such capabilities on hardware sold in their countries. With the voltage difference, PAL etc, and consider the fact that most of the stuff you buy are 'to be sold in north america only', more than likely most of the stuff you'd change are already being customized in someway for specific regions.

As far as how big the market goes, note that however big Microsoft may be, it is still far long on the list of big contributors to the US GDP. Cars are a far more profitable business on earning statements...

Intellectual property laws are sorely lacking, and I think for the most part it is also because most people do not regard it the same as physical. People would never steal a shoe from walmart and afterwards claim it 'civil disobedience'. So had that shoe been replaceable by walmart at no cost, would it in turn still consistute stealing? There is ( I admit, probably only the hardcore GPL fans) those that argue when microsoft donates 'a billion dollars' in software, they are really not donating a penny.
On the surface, true, but how much value do you place on software then?

There is this overwhelming yell from the crowd that cds are 'way too expensive'. I frankly disagree. Sure, I'd love to pay less, I'd love that cars costs me 10 bucks instead of 10k. But this oxymoron of calling businesses 'greedy' have me rofl. Of course they are greedy, why else are they in business? It's simple economics and math. You do a survey and estimate how many would stop buying your CD once your raise the price by however many dollars, then you calculate whether you will make more or less as a result.

Until nobody's buying the Cds on shelves, they are not going to come down in price. Why should they be, when Joe Sixpack happily purchases the latest NSync cd without a second thought?

Then there is the real issue of artists getting paid. Just because WalMart makes more money selling cloths, does that give me the right to steal candy from them? I'm sure theres more than a few developer lurking around here, and every single one of the agree that warez is bad, although you coudl argue you werne't going to buy their stuff anyway.

A dollar a cd or less, that apparently is the figure. But seriously, could these artists get there without these companies? Isn't the market working, where the big companies start to rip off too many people thus in turn spur the growth of smaller companies to compete with them? Sure they deserve more, but with all the media coverage at all, they've never been painted in a light that wasn't 'rich famous and beautiful'.

Monopoly or not? Local brewery have trouble getting shelves at local liquor stores, because quite frankly the big names have more money than they do, and they buy off all the good shelf space. Business, or what? Unfair advantage, or competition at work?

Them Olson twins have their own billion dollar merchandise market, maybe some artists should ask these teens to back them up next time.

I think these artists have enough money to pull together and solve this problem with the labels by themselves. If they do not act however, who am I to complain?

With that said, i may be willing to give up more freedom than some of you are, but as far as I'm concerned, if most of these copyrights have a right to be there, then they have the right to enforce it. I'm not exactly clean (hehe....), but I would like to be 'rich' one day and pay for everything I use and give the people who created them a fair share. If these new restrictions protect artists, the companies or whomever had a hand in creating them, great, but if they start inhibiting legit users abilities, then obviously we have a problem.

And the way I see it, theres no way one can happen without the other. Privacy and security comes hand in hand. Big brother is watching you, now you will always be safe...

Stripe7:

What? How does this spell the end of GPL?

The irony itself is that GPL itself is a end user license, a copyright of sort. It too has power to enforce and make the user do certain things. Whether you can run GPL code or not is irrelevant to this technology, at least the way I see it.

[Rent-a-Zilla]

Whilst I don't agree with this Bill, I agree with Mac_Bug that there is a problem that will eventually be addressed (probably involving the end of standalone software).

Enjoy the honeymoon while it lasts folks.

[Langy]

Mac_Bug:

The bill is NOT supported by Microsoft or Intel. They are STRONGLY against it. Read the first link again.

As I said, everything designed by Americans will need to be compliant with the American legislations, including this bill if it passes. This means everything exported from America will have to have this stuff in it.

Personally, I have no problem with intellectual property laws. I think they are good. Doing them like this, however, is NOT good. It will ruin economies and fuck just about everyone over.

In case you didn't know, I'm pro-communism. I also understand that communism simply doesn't work the way people are using it today. If they can finally fix that problem then we won't have most of these problems anymore.

If you simply are giving away stuff to people who won't be buying that stuff anyways and it isn't in a physical form then you aren't actually losing money from it, as it actually DOES cost money to make candy but it does NOT cost money to destribute software over the internet (well, excluding server costs).

Finally, I'm in favor of an ECHELON-like system that would completely remove all privacy from communications but give the government the capability of knowing EXACTLY what is going on. This would help EXTREMELY in preventing assassinations, bank robberies, and anything else that needs planning to accomplish. It would also help to prevent terrorists as well as to help our government win wars (spying from safety).

Everyone else:

In case you people didn't notice, this bill covers just about anything with any electronics in it. This includes VCRs, cars, computers, radios, clocks, just about everything. The 'protection' would probably make things cost more, resulting in you, the consumer, having to spend more money for it. This is not a good thing.

[Tronno]

IMHO, it all comes down to this: the elite few think they know what's best for us.

Government started out with the idea that the individual doesn't know what's best for him, but the whole does. Over time, corruption seeped in and the whole started being influenced by individuals - a cycle in a way.

The individuals are the corporations - cabals of the rich and privileged with connections high up the ladder. Disney, Time Warner, etc. have made a big enough push to upset the will of the people, and a bill got written up. I won't be surprised if it gets passed.

I will, however, be pissed.

The problem is that nobody realizes we don't want this. People eventually get used to laws, even if they once protested them. Senate/Congress/Whatever think they did a good job, hooray, end of story.

We can't try and take out the source of all this - it goes down too deep, the implications are too great, etc. Big companies will not budge. Instead, continue the fight. Don't forget the original cause. Rally your friends, families, etc - fight the man. Never give up.

But on the other hand, you can't stop the cycle, so it's pointless to try.

[Maverick_3058]

Hn.
Reminds me of a jesting observation made by a friend of mine this week: "The system of capitalism for any new industry in America involves a select few doing better than the others, then turning around and saying, 'The rest of you can't come up here' while steering legislation to enforce that statement."

[Mac_Bug]

Let me be the first to admit that I made a pretty critical mistake there, thanks for pointing it out Langy (see this enables me to get away from my bigger ones :))

I think its time to put on a disclaimer, not everything I say may necessarily be true, and not everything necessarily based on the truth. So times and again I might look to you to be bullshitting, most likely you guys are right.

Well, AOL-Time-Warner by itself right about dominates the media. Microsoft has been working for years to lay their foundation for their planned entry into the media world as well. AOL vs. Microsoft has only begun, and I won't be surprised, as I said before, this turn into a sort of cold war between the two, where they employ the 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' rule.

Expecting some of these companies to be sincere... well, since when? Most are probably just jumping on the bandwagon, the PR department at their best. Tell me, does MS and Intel make you all warm and fuzzy inside by opposing the bill, and thus, the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend?

These big companies plays a huge chess game with each other. They probably weighed 'how much would this benefit me' with 'how much would this bill cost me?', then decided it wasn't worth it and they can turn around to their advantage.

All cynicism aside, its nice and all we have this bill, but um...

where is the technology to do that?

[F.A.]

Originally posted by Nova
And Ressev, the higher the price, the higher the profit, the higher the wages, the same purchasing power.... it's one nice big circle, companies have Economist that are there to keep them from putting themselves out of business.


Higher prices do not always mean higher profits, and higher profits definitely dont mean higher wages. Even if that was the case, we are talking about 2 different industries here.

[TheBob]

If the bill pases, it will hurt the economy so much the supreme court will declare it unconstitutional. If passes and this does not happen, I'm becoming a crax0r. I'm fighting.

[Nova]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nova
And Ressev, the higher the price, the higher the profit, the higher the wages, the same purchasing power.... it's one nice big circle, companies have Economist that are there to keep them from putting themselves out of business.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Higher prices do not always mean higher profits, and higher profits definitely dont mean higher wages. Even if that was the case, we are talking about 2 different industries here. After nearly a month of studying demand curves and elasticity I make a stupid statement like that.

What that should say is that the company will play around with the prices until the find an equilibrium between supply and quantity demanded, when they find that spot, they'll wait around until another factor comes along and forces them to find a new equilibrium. Companies will rarely charge too much for a product, after a certian price range they will notice their product becoming too inelastic and they will begin to lose too many consumers and won't be able to cover their cost. Same goes for charging too little, not only will the cost not cover the current cost of supply, when they start to increase production to ease demand, they will only use up more money (but at that point, stopping production to bring up the price and keep the demand the same is possible).

And without pulling this thread completely off topic, it's not how much money you have, it's how much that money with worth. If I have a lot of money that has little value, I can buy just as much as a person who only has a little money that's worth a lot.

[TheBob]

I think we should all move for that communism/capitalist thing somebody on this tread was proposing.

[Tronno]

Effective fusions of those two systems only exist in your wildest drug-induced hallucinations. To even consider such a thing is a sure sign of advancing brain disease.

...

It'd be nice though.

[Nova]

I suggest you go read up on both concepts before suggesting something like that, if you did, you would see that money doesn't exist in a Communist system and bartering isn't the perfered method of trade in a Capitalist economy.

And if one more person confuses Communisum with Socialism, I'm going to beat them with a oar.

[Ressev]

Actually, I have been noticing the odd trend for companies in America to move jobs elsewhere (to India for instance) because when you can pay someone $1 a day versus $100 dollars a day plus the costs of benefits, you realize you get more profit for your bottom line. It is just that most Americans spend beyond their means and cost more than most corporations are willing to pay.

In the company I work for, foreign programers are paid a lot less than the 'natives'. It would just not surprise me if companies find they have to lower their prices in relation to what they pay overseas workers becuase of the increasing unemployment problem they created in the USA. But that, may never happen...




*hehe forgot to remove my sig...*

[zenogias]

$1 a day versus $100 dollars a day
Wow, that's a lot of money for the work they send overseas.

At a hundred dollars a day, you're making some 2000 dollars a week, and $104,000 a year. Don't know many factory workers making that much money.

[Ressev]

I am not speaking about factory workers.

Though they suffered first and they don't make $100 a day (relative monetary values) now, they made more before work went elsewhere. That is how it works.

The customer service division at the Bank I work at may soon migrate (sans workers) to India. They are paid well in order to care for the customer well. The idea is still being bantered about, but I am trying to dissuade the CEO from the action as it will lessen our customer service. They make $10-12 an hour plus overtime. When you work 6am to 5PM you get nice overtime on a regular basis.

Don't know what factory workers make, but even if they made $50 a day, it is still more than $1.
:square: I would imagine they make more than Federal Minimum wage in legit factories.

[Mac_Bug]

Heh didnt cha hear about back when the dot com bubble was blowing strong, companies hired tons of foreign workers into the US, one because bottom line is smaller, and because there were just simply a lack of talent ( or so they say).

I've been told that the computer industry has been very competitive in these years, because the amount of skilled workers migrating to North America (hey what the hell I'm an immigrant) and they are omore than willing to work the same job for a lot less than locals. Here in Canada however, big corporations and the government considers Canadian citizen first, followed by the distance the applicant is currently from the job location etc. Personally at this moment I don't think the first one may be very fair, but I'm sure by enxt year when I turn citizen I'd appreciate it a lot more when I get out there in the big dirty world all alone.

I knwo lots of you here are in the industry, so hows it looking? My dad has been trying to get me to do business or accounting (or occasional hope of doctor, except I hate biology, or lawyer, except my way with words frankly suck). Word is there are lots of new chinese immigrants majoring in computers can't find a job here, kinda ironic since couple years ago everyone in my parents field went back to school to learn computers because they couldnt't find a job at their own.

So what does all this have to do with this bill?

I guess the next bill they are going to introduce is to expel all middle eastern origin computer programmers citing fear of backdoors in some of the nations most crucial programs :/

Going back to the GPL part. Just because it doesn't need copy protection, it doesn't necessarily mean it won't have any shoudl this bill go through, nor does it mean there would be absolutely no way to get around it, legit or not.

Like I said on another forum, if you Americans really think the Congress is THAT stupid and the people from Open Source Community that weak in their lobbying powers...

No wait you already believe in the former...

[Dukath]

Would the bill really affect those outside usa? I mean they could put the extra stuff on separate computer chips where they just leave it out when selling outside usa and including it inside usa. And how will it work with online orders? Can the government check every incomling package for computer hardware/software to see if it is in regulation with that silly law?

I won't buy a product like that unless there is absolutely NO alternative, i won't buy software that has it at all.? (thats why i'm hesitating to upgrade my good old win98 for games) and i'm using a non windows OS for work)

open source software will continue to go on, even if its made "illegal", just see how much warez and mp3s are going around.

As for the side-argument, there is no reason why you can't have communism and kapitalism in one economy. I also think that communism for all the basic goods like a certain amount of food shelter and energy and then kapitalism for lucury goods is a very good idea.

[Nova]

As for the side-argument, there is no reason why you can't have communism and kapitalism in one economy. I also think that communism for all the basic goods like a certain amount of food shelter and energy and then kapitalism for lucury goods is a very good idea. That is a good idea, now you'll just need to figue out how it works, selling (ie. doing things the capitalist way) is what gets the money to buy the expensive items, if you start rationing it, then there is no money being made.

Lets try to make this clear. In a COMMNUNIST system, everything every one needs is given to them, there is no money and there is no competition. In a CAPITALIST economy you have to work for everything you own, money is required for buying the things you need to survive. You cannot mix Communism and Capitalism together, it won't work.

[Walker]

Originally posted by Nova
Lets try to make this clear

No, let's forget it, OK? And stay on topic? Leave the political intellectual bludgeoning to another thread.

Dukath: Since the USA runs the worlds computer industry and, for that matter, the world, rest assured that a piece of equipment compulsory there is compulsory everywhere. Any countries that refused would be cut out of the picture.

[zenogias]

Any countries that refused would be cut out of the picture.
Meaning they'd just develop their own computer industries and forget about us, and we yanks would feel a right lot of fools while the rest of the world just laughs at our techno-cultural stagnation.

Oh well, that's what we get for being the "greatest" country in the world :/

[Harmanoff]

What was it called again, when they made alcohol illegal in the U.S 90 years ago or so? I forget...

I suspect that if this bill would ever come trough it it would be pure gold for the rest of the worlds computer manufacturers. Like when someone yells free beer at a party. Bootlegging computers to the U.S would become big business.

Not like that will happen. *crosses fingers*

[zenogias]

The point is not whether the bill will succeed, or whether it'll affect people outside the U.S., because, frankly, America as a whole only cares about what you guys can give us, otherwise you can all go to -- not my opinion.

The point is whether or not they'll actually pass it. Seeing as I daily encounter examples of American behavior that make absolutely no-freakin'-sense, and since we've done things in our history that make absolute no-freakin'-sense (Prohibition being just the most obvious one), then I see no reason why the bill won't get passed in some incarnation.

It'll fail miserably, but that's not the point. The point is that I'll have to by a new computer because I'm not tech-savvy enough to make mine look like it's got all the security stuff it needs. Not that I want to keep this piece of junk, mind you, I just couldn't if I wanted to.

[BunsenHoneydew]

Originally posted by Harmanoff
What was it called again, when they made alcohol illegal in the U.S 90 years ago or so? I forget...

Prohibition.

Bunsen

[Ressev]

Prohibition

Yeah, now there was another dumb one that should give all of us hope with regards to this bill and the DCMA: Legislation can be repealled (sp). Prohibition just did not work so it was stopped.

As a Christian I am glad I can have a glass of wine and a nice pipe in this country without breaking the law. At least neither are habits.