Eldar race and Tau Race in the game..

[AvatarOFSajuuk]

Was wondering if you've heard any info about these 2 races... and if they are appearing in the game ( one of these races, at least)... :idea:

Eldar race look cool though, and the Tau race looks like they came straight outta an anime OAV (original animated video)
Hope they appear in the game ! :omg:

and if they dont appear in the game :fright: , is there a chance that we get to play these 2 factions in an expansion ? :?:

my question seems a bit like vague, and farfetched, but it would be nice and a great idea by relic/thq/Games workshop if these races get into the game ! :omg:

Imagine how much hard-earned dollars would flow to relic/thq/Games Workshops coffers, if they pull this off ! :jaw:

and possibly start challenging Blizzard Entertainment or EA in the RTS games genre... :jaw:

May Relic stay unchanged by the grace of the Great Maker, Whose Hand Shapes What Is.. :bow:

just my 2 dimes of thoughts.. :2cents:

[Fable]

No official word, but there is 1 unkown multiplayer race and 1 race that makes an appearance in single player but is not in multiplayer. Much speculation has been made and people seem to think the most likely choices are Eldar, Tau or IG for any of these two game slots.

[Ravenblade]

I'm hoping with the release of the new 40K game in September or October that one of the races will be Tyranids as these are getting released with space marines in the 40K box.

As for the other race i guess perhaps Eldar, Nerons or IG

I just can't wait for the game to come out :sci:

[Uzgah]

I thought they were just revising the rulebook and not changing the box contents?

Sorry a little off topic.

On topic: I'd like to see any race personally. Tau cos I like 'em. Eldar cos I like 'em. Necrons... I don't lke 'em but I assume they'll look cool in 3D. IG cos I like 'em. 'Nids _will_ look cool in 3D...

[blackjoker4215]

Tau should be in the game.

[Davion]

Originally posted by blackjoker4215
Tau should be in the game.

No, they should not. If the Tau are in this game I will have to question buying it.

There are so few Tau worlds, all clumped together in the middle of nowere. It makes no sence for them to be in the game.

Besides the Tau just had a game. Make room for another race...


So far the safe money is on

I.G./ Necron for the non-playable race
Eldar for the playable

[blackjoker4215]

Well its just my thought and we have different thoughts.

[DarthFelth]

i would like to see Tau in the game if it made sense ;)

[Davion]

Don't get me wrong, i'm not bashing anyone. But I really hate to see the tau, I think Eldar/Guard make more sence and would be cooler, each to his own though.

[DarthFelth]

well as i said, if it made sense and not just put into the game to please a few players unless they had nothing to do with singleplayer, however i would rather see Genestealer cult than Tau ;)

[H.B.M.C.]

I'd hate to see the Tau as well. They've got around 15 major worlds in their empire - the Imperium has a few million. The Tau are not a big deal when it comes to 40K, and I see no reason why there'd be Chaos Marines all the way down there.

I want the two other races to be either 'Crons, Eldar or Guard (2 of the 3).

BYE

[AvatarOFSajuuk]

in your opinion, who is by far the best race to include in this massive game ?
the one race that can send this miserable universe to oblivion for all i care !
love the tabletop game, anyways XD

[Uzgah]

Do we even know where this game is set yet?
For all we know it could be on the outskirts of Tau sapce. Giving them plenty of reason to inclde them.

I don't think anyone should be banging on that Tau don't have place in the game because they only have a small area of operations.
By that same arguement 'Nids can;t really be a race within the game. Sure they've spread far into the galaxy but they far from span the entire length.

So until we have a clue as to where the game is set, I think we should just discuss which races we _like_ to see. Rather than discounting the races for things, which at this present time, we have no idea about.

[Whiteferret]

Umm.... The size of the Tau Empire is much larger than you think. The major Sept worlds are the equivalent of a homeworld for the major founding chapters of the Space Marines, not to mention since the Eye Of Terror Campaign the Tau Empire has grown in size.

[Dazz]

I would love to see the Tyranids in the game but it's very unlikely :(

[DarthFelth]

erm, i said Genestealer Cult, not Nids, they are very different armies, and if the setting is on a imperial planet (which it could be) then i could see a high chance of things like Chaos Cultist and Genetealer cultist, i mean for a Stealer cult armt to form, all it takes is for one stealer to get onto the planet, and they dont even have to be human anyway (well asfar as i can think anyways)

[Davion]

Umm.... The size of the Tau Empire is much larger than you think. The major Sept worlds are the equivalent of a homeworld for the major founding chapters of the Space Marines, not to mention since the Eye Of Terror Campaign the Tau Empire has grown in size.

Nope. I am well aware of the size of the Tau Empire, as i'm sure most people are. 12 Sept Worlds and about 120 in total.

The Tau are cool, but they are small fries. Very small fries.

[Ravenblade]

genestealter cult's I haven't heard anything about them in a long while, they would add some intesting features to the game if they are included, i wonder if GW will bring them back in 40K proper ?

[Davion]

genestealter cult's I haven't heard anything about them in a long while, they would add some intesting features to the game if they are included, i wonder if GW will bring them back in 40K proper ?

Genestealers would be cool. Purple Battle Tanks, Troops with no armor save and two hand weapons, masses of gene stealers.

We have someone in our G.W. that plays genestealers..... fun army to play against.

Maybe if the I.G. are in the game ( non-playable) there could be a mission involving killing an outbreak. Or if nids are playable you could capute NCP's around the battlefield and infect them?

[Maximus Decimus]

Well we know that it is set on a imperial world under invasion of the orks.

The imperium numbers in billions of worlds who each contribute millions of guard. I find it funny that the tau empire has no real communication with its home world since they cannot use psychic transmission they have HQs throughout the empire that run their section how they are told and also have no warp travel meaning they cannot rlly venture too far from a core world. this makes conquest long and difficult and also ensures the destruction of the tau empire if they were to ever grow even 1/4 of the imperium. The tau empire is fairly small comparing it to the imperium. I believe that it stated that the tau captured ten worlds or something after the EoT so nothing rlly major there and dont they have a return to domecles campaign coming up if it has not alrdy happened? thats gonna be cool.

Gamewise i doubt tau would be very fun cause all u will be doing is standing back firing and retreating once they come to close but thats my opinion.

[TS_ahriman]

But Tau are the masters of retreating.

imo I think that Eldar and Guard would be great...here's why:

Eldar are very specialised, and would be tough to play as but quite rewarding. Guard would just be...guard... and we all know what they do. Would be very cool in an rts.

Why no necrons? Why no Tau?
Well, Necrons are like very resilient marines, but with cool guns, cool fluff, and cool models. And people keep griping about the CnC super units, so maybe things like Monoliths and C'Tan are better left alone.
Tau shortcomings have already been discussed.

[DarthFelth]

personaly i think the Genestealer cult would be alot more fun to play, if anyone remebers them from rougue trader with all the different generations of hybrids leading up to the magus all, looking more and more human, would allow fro some cool purge missions were you would have to first find them, then kill erm and hope one of them wasnt a magus, games wise they would make alot more sense on the planet than Tau or eldar who wouldnt ahve much reason to be on a imperial planet thats under ork attack

[davidbowie]

personally, i think their is no way in hell that a genstealer cult are going to be one of the 2 secret races.

Here are my thoughts:

Eldar - Single Player - they have to be in the game as a "unpredicatable" side, orks wanna kill and waagh, chaos want to destroy imperium, ELDAR you dont know, they could go either way.
Guard - They will be the skirmish race they could not contribute anything to the story that the marines could do, but people would like to play them, so i would say the skirmish race. In skirmish they also "balance" they sides 2 imperial vs 2 bad.

[Wolfma[N]]

Well your guess is as good as anyone elses... I guess time will tell.

[mr_mich]

My guesses are as follows:

Multi-player:
-Eldar? I think it'd be manageable, the eldar army is very characterful, and has been quite popular in 40k's history.
-Guard? I think it'd be interesting, because guard usually plays defensively, which would add a lot of variety to the game. It might not be implemented easily to its full potential as a playable race however.

Single Player:
-Guard? If not in multi-player, then they might be here to lend hand to the SM's. Getting artillery support and such from Guard during a siege or helping to defend an IG base would be a really awesome scenario.
-Necrons? In the event that the Relic guys wanted to throw a wrench in the SM works by making you fend off Orks AND another race at the same time, this would be a great way to do it. Scary, unknown, and they mysteriously keep standing up. A great random threat, and I also think they'd be unlikely to be fully implemented, due to lack of variety.

[Falcon]

Well there better be some form of eldar in this i reckon this secert race is necron you know :deal: it is in the contact (liek every movie you vs orks and then necrons come and then no idea BUT IT IS IN THERE)

[Triceron]

I think the Eldar will probably be made playable multiplayer with the Tyranids appearing in singleplayer. It sort of makes sense if this is done, since you'd have two "good" races (Space Marines, Eldar) and two "evil" ones (Orks, Chaos). And Tyranids are just too hard to pass up on for the ultimate singleplayer threat. What better evil alien threat can there be?

[paulsoo]

Tyranids in the game would be super. But if it's Eldar, Marines and 'Nids, it would all seem StarCraft'ish hehe :D

Just my thoughts, I can't say I agree that Orks are more close-combat oriented than Marines (according to someone from Relic, I think). In skills and armoury, they'd be weaker but their numbers in armies make up for it.

I'd opt for 'Nids to be in the game.. WHO'S WITH ME?! :deal:

[Marneus Calgar]

Speaking from a realism point of view I'd put money on the Guard being in there somewhere as they are usually the first wave of attack in any Imperial fighting, with the Space Marines being sent in once the treat has escalated.
Looking at it from a gameplay perspective the Guard will offer Imperial players a whole wealth of tactical options which would not be available if they just had a Space Marine force.
I've been involved in Beta testing a few RTS games before and used to work in the video games industry, so based on my personal experience I'd say that Imperial Guard are almost sure to appear in the game in some manner.

On the topic of the Eldar, if they did appear I assume they would be allied with niether the Greenskins or the Space Marines. The reason for this is the Eldar only serve themselves, and ally with other races only if it suits their needs and then turn on them if they have to. The Eldar have never pretended to be "good-guys" in the 40k universe, in fact they are one of the most implaceable races in the game.

I doubt Tau will get an airing (at least on 1st release of the game) as they had a whole game dedicated to them with Fire Warrior, and if I know GW then they will want to get as much diversity from their franchise as possible.

[Shim]

If the game takes place on an Imperial world then I don't see how there couldn't be Guard in it, or at least PDF.

[Triceron]

The Eldar have never pretended to be "good-guys" in the 40k universe, in fact they are one of the most implaceable races in the game.


As for Eldar having an ambiguous alignment, they are relatively good, or at least sided with order. They're army is listed under the Forces of Order in the Eye of Terror WW campaign. I think they would be a fit well in this 40k game, having lots of diverse units and an awesome assortment of weapons and spells to show off.

[No Surrender]

I would hate to see that Tau in DoW. They don't fit in the visual style of the universe and arn't varied enough.

[Dimension]

could it be that Relic would create a new race, or modify an exisiting race to represent a previously unheard of fraction of that race? we know from the interview that GW has encouraged relic to be creative. they have a new space marine chapter, but is this where it ends?

[No Surrender]

I don't think GW would give Relic THAT much leway.

[Dimension]

THAT much leeway for what? creating a new race or giving an existing race a new spin? while the former may indeed be higly unlikely, i could imagine relic being given the go-ahead to create a few new units/a fluff-background that would give an existing race a new twist. examples might be corrupted tyranids, or a new type of necron unit, possibly even some sort of necron cult, men who are worshipping the machines and have started getting cybernetic implants in the hopes of rending themselves of weak flesh. small scale pariahs so to speak.

anyways, the gamestar.de article included this tidbit: Space Marines, Orks, Chaos-Dämonen und vermutlich Eldar (Elfen) kämpfen im 41. Jahrhundert um die Vorherrschaft in der Galaxis.

they're speculating that the 4th race are eldar. personally, i think they have no clue, and make only a guess based upon the fact that eldar are among the oldest races within the 40K franchise. taking this with a bucket of salt.

[Whiteferret]

Nope. I am well aware of the size of the Tau Empire, as i'm sure most people are. 12 Sept Worlds and about 120 in total.

The Tau are cool, but they are small fries. Very small fries.


Need to reread your white dwarf fluff for post Eye of Terror... your numbers are quite a bit off.

[Whiteferret]

Well we know that it is set on a imperial world under invasion of the orks.

The imperium numbers in billions of worlds who each contribute millions of guard. I find it funny that the tau empire has no real communication with its home world since they cannot use psychic transmission they have HQs throughout the empire that run their section how they are told and also have no warp travel meaning they cannot rlly venture too far from a core world. this makes conquest long and difficult and also ensures the destruction of the tau empire if they were to ever grow even 1/4 of the imperium. The tau empire is fairly small comparing it to the imperium. I believe that it stated that the tau captured ten worlds or something after the EoT so nothing rlly major there and dont they have a return to domecles campaign coming up if it has not alrdy happened? thats gonna be cool.

Gamewise i doubt tau would be very fun cause all u will be doing is standing back firing and retreating once they come to close but thats my opinion.


You people really don't read much 40k fluff at all do you.

[Dimension]

maybe instead of double-posting, pointless and irritating attacks versus fellow forumites, you can enlighten them with providing sources with the real numbers and facts?

because right now you're only annoying everyone.

[ionfish]

Guys, it's really not necessary to quote entire posts. They're right there in the thread for all of us to read - unless there's a specific point that you're responding to, as Dimension was in this post (http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=371561&postcount=35), please don't use the quote button. It's there for a specific function - to quote specific things - so please don't use it as your normal mode of response. Please read the forum guidelines (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=5710) for more on the quote feature.

[Davion]

You people really don't read much 40k fluff at all do you.


What he said is mostly true.

We know the Imperium has about 1 million worlds. There are of course more lost from the light of the imperium. However 1 million seems to be a fair number for an avarage (new ones being found/conquered and destroyed all the time.).

The Tau cannot really use warp travel. Because they have no beacon (ie. the EoM). they skim warp.......and because of that they can only travel short distances.

The Tau are not even a blimp compared to the Imperium of Man. 100worlds comapred to a million. The only reason the Tau are even around is because the Imperium has more pressing problems. A crusade like the Sabbot Worlds would DESTROY the Tau. Its a shame the Imperium is to busy....

the Tau are not a threat to anyone. Im sure they will expand though ( they sell to well to be whiped out like they should be) and be in the 40k universe for a long time to come.

Need to reread your white dwarf fluff for post Eye of Terror... your numbers are quite a bit off.


Really..... I'll tell you what. Why don't you post that "fluff" that shows my numbers to be way off. During EOT the Tau Empire increased in size only by 30%.....

Why don't you tell me that you belive the Tau's number of worlds to be?


PS. Im not trying to be rude here, just to the point..... cause unless I missed something your way out to left field.

Your right my numbers are slightly off in sept worlds.
8 Marjor
7 Minor

[Maximus Decimus]

Whiteferret: I dont know much about 40k fluff at all do I? lol. iv got about every piece of fluff from 2nd edition and alot from 1st edition. ok i admit i was wrong on the count of world but the official statement is

"There are over one million worlds in the Imperium, all of which are inhabited by humans or human descended creatures such as beastmen and squats"

- GW

To the point the Tau empire is very small compared to the Imperium. it consists of about 100 worlds and you cannot compare that to a empire that consists of over a million worlds.

This has been much debate but most people believe that tau dont have warp capability at all. They may be wrong with this but some supporting evidence would be nice instead of your small imature little posts stating things in which you show no evidence.

[ceejayoz]

This has been much debate but most people believe that tau dont have warp capability at all. They may be wrong with this but some supporting evidence would be nice instead of your small imature little posts stating things in which you show no evidence. Try and stay more civil, please.

[Maximus Decimus]

Alright, he was just being very disrespectful judgeing another user like he did and then not even providing supporting information for any of his own claims.

[The Collector]

We'll have to cite issues of White Dwarf and Codex: Tau if we are to make this more constructive...

[Davion]

We'll have to cite issues of White Dwarf and Codex: Tau if we are to make this more constructive...


OverView Of The Tau

"without this specialised mutation of the navigator gene, thier colony ships could only make short 'hops' itno warp space, skimming the edge of the immaterium."

"Soon the Tau empire streched over a little more than 300 hundred light years and incororated eight heavily settled systems known as septs."


indeed, no need for insults. Lets work this out. The above proves 8 major Tau worlds and the fact they are unable to use full warp travel. Anyone have anything proving the number of Tau worlds?. I'll try and find the quote about 120.... I know its here somewere.

[Azmodai]

In the codex i think they say something about 120 or somin like that.

[Maximus Decimus]

Thank you for that, I believe that either the EoT report in WD or somewhere else it stated how many worlds there are and how many they captured. I will go and try to find the WD that the EoT results are in.

[Shakrith]

My two Aussie cents: Eldar would add a new tactical type to the game. We already have a horde army (orks), so 'Nids'd be redundant, we have the elite army (marines), which makes Necrons a bit redundant for multiplayer but good for single, Guard would bea little hard to do well (with unit max 150 for the game the guard lose their biggest advantage), Tau have already had a game and their shootiness would be a little hard in game terms when you can't shoot long enough for you to kill the chaos horde before they kill you. Eldar, however, add a new style: fast-moving, hard to pin down, with very specialised units. That's why eldar should be in, and 'crons as single-player only.

[Dimension]

well, i don't really see unit limit being something that would cripple the guard. you could have a guard trooper account for .5 or .75 units. marines 2, or 1.5 maybe.

when it comes down to it, unit limit is like a point restriction, not really a unit limit in its original sense.

*edit*
disregard the above, my noobness shows ;)

[No Surrender]

or you could do what most IG players do an think in terms of units rather than individual guardsmen.

[Barkarot]

Well first off-topic of cource :D This game should be game like CMBB`s those who don`t know the game...well you don`t understand why it should be. there is points, you can deside what to add to your list. There is morale there is everything, it just need melee.

And now all others have said what they want to this game. All races should be added(later in expansions, if come) Even Tau empire is not so huge, but their tecnology, good really good. And(and,and and and) game makers are fans of wh40k so i see no big thing why they won`t add...everything. Well this message is little bit weird maybe(first message in here so i wanted to write all to this dont get mad)

[H.B.M.C.]

Umm.... The size of the Tau Empire is much larger than you think. The major Sept worlds are the equivalent of a homeworld for the major founding chapters of the Space Marines, not to mention since the Eye Of Terror Campaign the Tau Empire has grown in size.

They still only have around 15 major planets, plus a few more since the EoT campaign. Double that for minor planets. They're "not that bigger threat yet", and even the Tau know that (read Kill Team). The back of the Tau 'Dex lists the major and minor planets in the Empire. Increase that by 30% and you have the Tau "Empire" as it stands now.

Just look at the Tau Codex - the reason they still exist is thanks to the Tyranids. Had the 'Nids not shown up, the Damocleas Crusade would've been reinforced to break the stalemate and the Tau wiped out.

And if you still don't believe how small they are, then go here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tau/teaser/Tau_galaxy.htm).

By that same arguement 'Nids can;t really be a race within the game. Sure they've spread far into the galaxy but they far from span the entire length.

Hive Fleet Kraken was smashed into many splinter fleets that have spread across the Galaxy. Hive Fleet Leviathan is coming up from the bottom of the Galaxy (right through Tau space, as it happens). There were even reports of 'Nids around the EoT during Abbadon's 13 Black Crusader. Believe me when I tell you, the 'Nids are everywhere and a far bigger threat than the Tau could ever be considered.

As for being a race in Dawn of War? It's a possibility. I just don't see them doing it.

BYE

[Executor]

Ok to settle this once and for all....

the Tau Empire has 100+ Worlds (presumably 120-130 for the 32% expansion after EOT). This is clearly stated on pg4 of the Tau codex "Though not extensive it encompasses a region of space some three hundred light years in diameter, with the Tau home world at its centre, and nearly a hundred settled worlds."

This is said again in the Tau Index Xenos article in white dwarf.

Septs do not consist of a single world. Sept Worlds are merely hubs of power as the Tau relised that a central power base wouldn't work with their communication difficulties. Vior'la Sept for instance contains a dosen worlds (see the article "Vior'la: a world of warriors").

The Tau are not even a blimp compared to the Imperium of Man. 100worlds comapred to a million. The only reason the Tau are even around is because the Imperium has more pressing problems. A crusade like the Sabbot Worlds would DESTROY the Tau. Its a shame the Imperium is to busy....

Really? I'd just like to quote this very intresting piece of the Tau Battlefleet web page.
The only thing holding the Tau fleets back from total domination of the space lanes is their limited warp capabilities. Since the Tau have no psykers to navigate the Warp, they can only make brief trips by "skipping" along the surface of the Immaterium. If the Tau ever manage to achieve unrestricted travel through the Warp, their fleets will be nearly unstoppable.

I think you'd a bit more than a crusade to defeat the Tau if they ever got unrestricted Warp travel and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

[Cortanus]

Thats the whole point. The Tau don't have full warp travel capabilities. And a crusade like the Sabbat Worlds crusade would be able to remove their threat - if another crusade that size was adviseable. However, this is all speculation. But, as a new race, I really wouldn't like to see them in another game at the moment. There are so many, well established races, that I would like to see brought into full motion.

[Executor]

I don't think so. The Sabbat Crusade had nearly a Billion Guardsmen. You'd need alot more to damage to the Technologically Superior Tau compared to killing Chaos Rabble. Even in the numbers game the amount of Fire Warriors Sa'cea Sept World alone can contribute would negate the numbers advantage (it being a Tau version of a hive world). Not to mention the logistically troubles of trying to deploy 1 Billion Guardsmen that far away from the Astronomicon (sp?)

IMO I think theres nothing that says that Tau should be put in the game before any other race (because they are new is no excuse) but at the same time there is nothing which deserves to be in the game before Tau. I'd prefer some other reason like for story purposes or for another type of army option currently we have Awesome CC/bad shooting, Good Shooting and CC, and Chaos which is sorta the same as space marines. A Shooty army for multiplayer IMO would be a good move which would leave Tau, Eldar and Necrons as the only good options.

[No Surrender]

If I remember correctly the Tau lost most of what they gained in the EoT campaign in the lesser known Return to the Democlese Gulf campaign.

I think you'd a bit more than a crusade to defeat the Tau if they ever got unrestricted Warp travel and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Not really since the Imperium already got dibs on most of the habitable planets. Plus, the Imperium can easily wipe out the Tau. The Imperium has more troops, a bigger fleet, more advanced technology (though not it wide use).

[Executor]

If I remember correctly the Tau lost most of what they gained in the EoT campaign in the lesser known Return to the Democlese Gulf campaign.

Your meaning the Warhammer World Return to Daemocles Campaign. It does Not change anything (exact words from the runners) it was merely a background for the campaign and was never a full on strike but merely a hit and run attack.

Not really since the Imperium already got dibs on most of the habitable planets. Plus, the Imperium can easily wipe out the Tau. The Imperium has more troops, a bigger fleet, more advanced technology (though not it wide use).

Well...
1) The Imperium has NOT populated even half of the galaxy. If anything Ultima Segmentum is little in the way of heavily population human wise.
2) Debatable about the Bigger Fleets. True the Imperium has more ships but how many of those are actually free to attack is another matter. I point to the oftermath Fluff of EOT to show that the Imperium has no much in the way of avaliable ships.
3) In only certain cases (namely teleportation though why Tau would use it is another matter) the Tau are more advanced. Novels and many pieces of fluff describe Humans seeing Tau technology as 'technosorcery'.

Well This is sorta Going off topic so I suggest if anyone wants to debate this feel free to start a thread the gw 40K forums :)

[No Surrender]

1) I never said they had populated 1/2 the galaxy. I merely said they would control most of the choise planets around Tau space if they were to expand.
2) Except one Imperial warship is more than a match for it's Tau conterpart (BFG)
3) Tau also don't have Titans and AV14 vehicles.

[WarpGhost]

I bet Relic are laughing up their little sleevies at all this speculation about the races theyre usingand their reasons...

[Executor]

1) I never said they had populated 1/2 the galaxy. I merely said they would control most of the choise planets around Tau space if they were to expand.
2) Except one Imperial warship is more than a match for it's Tau conterpart (BFG)
3) Tau also don't have Titans and AV14 vehicles.

1) You don't know that for a fact.
2) Hardly a Gal'leath would own a Lunar class anyday.
3) You mean the Manta Missile Destroyer (the Tau version of Titans) don't exist? and the only reason Tau vehicles don't have armour 14 Cause skimmers are limited to 13 Front and 12 Side max (and would make them unbalanced). It has nothing to do with being less advanced.

[mr_mich]

I bet Relic are laughing up their little sleevies at all this speculation about the races theyre usingand their reasons...

And I'm sure when someone mentions the right one in speculation they all wince a little bit. :)

[Shadione]

And I'm sure when someone mentions the right one in speculation they all wince a little bit. :)

Actually, we enjoy when you guys are right, means were on the right path.

[Cortanus]

I don't think so. The Sabbat Crusade had nearly a Billion Guardsmen. You'd need alot more to damage to the Technologically Superior Tau compared to killing Chaos Rabble. Even in the numbers game the amount of Fire Warriors Sa'cea Sept World alone can contribute would negate the numbers advantage (it being a Tau version of a hive world). Not to mention the logistically troubles of trying to deploy 1 Billion Guardsmen that far away from the Astronomicon (sp?)

IMO I think theres nothing that says that Tau should be put in the game before any other race (because they are new is no excuse) but at the same time there is nothing which deserves to be in the game before Tau. I'd prefer some other reason like for story purposes or for another type of army option currently we have Awesome CC/bad shooting, Good Shooting and CC, and Chaos which is sorta the same as space marines. A Shooty army for multiplayer IMO would be a good move which would leave Tau, Eldar and Necrons as the only good options.

Guard can easily outshoot anything in the game. Very easily, depending on how you build your army. Immense numbers help, but Guard also get Leman Russ', Basilisks, Demolishers, Hellhounds, and even their transports are good at attacking.

Regarding a concentrated Crusade against them, remember, thats billions of fighting troops, with immense armoured support. The Tau Fire Caste are the Tau fighters, and only the Fire Caste fight. Sure, the air caste pilot the ships in combat, but as was stated, Tau aircraft/space craft are not up to the standard of Imperial craft.

[Executor]

Guard can easily outshoot anything in the game. Very easily, depending on how you build your army. Immense numbers help, but Guard also get Leman Russ', Basilisks, Demolishers, Hellhounds, and even their transports are good at attacking.

Game and background is very different. I point to the Space marines as an obvious exameple.

Regarding a concentrated Crusade against them, remember, thats billions of fighting troops, with immense armoured support. The Tau Fire Caste are the Tau fighters, and only the Fire Caste fight. Sure, the air caste pilot the ships in combat, but as was stated

I am aware of that. Take the Sabbat crusade as an Example. 1 Billion Guardsman fought in it. Sa'cea is a Tau version of a hive world. The Population of a Hive world is between 100-500 Billion. Even if the amount of Fire Caste is 5% of the population that is still 5 times what fought in the Sabbat crusade.

, Tau aircraft/space craft are not up to the standard of Imperial craft.

That is actually wrong. With the exception of the Merchant class Tau vessels can take on Imperial equals. And Tau aircraft are actually superior in terms of weaponary its merely veteran pilots which the Tau lack (see Tau epic).

[No Surrender]

The Manta is a space craft, the Imperium have plenty of ships capable of single handedly laying waste to an entire planet. The point is that Tau ground forces have no answer to Titans. As for the Tau space fleet, an Emperor class battleship or a Retribution could take on any Tau ship in a one on one battle and win.

[Shakrith]

On the subject of Human technology, the Imperial tech is by far more advanced than Tau. Examples include compact (not battlesuit) power armour, genomodification, teleportation (they use warp tech, much better distance for less power drain), psycho-channeling technology comparable to that of the eldar (less advanced but still near the league, as opposed to say orks, hrud, tau, or any other race, the Humans have the 3rd best grasp of psychic power, after the Old Ones and Eldar), the humans have better guns (not always power-wise, but a lasgun can be used for a longer period of combat than a pulse rifle, and then there's the ordnance), there's computing and guidance (hunter-killers require no markerlighting, the machine spirits, though not perfectly understood, can follow more complex commands than drone intelligences.)
Anyway the imperials don't have all their tech recovered after their dark age.

[Uzgah]

I always thought the idea of the Tau having advanced technology was to do with the fact that in only 3000 years, compared to Mans 40,000 , they have ventred out into space, they have invented stable anti-gravity engines, they have invented stable plasma technologies, etc.
So they never invented phsyic augementation tech. They have no need for it so no need to develop said tech. However, the difference between drone neural nets and possessed equipment... yeah I'd go with the machine spirit making a better choice each time =]

The Tau and Man, neither one is technologically superior, they each have differen tech. With one tech not necessarily better than the other.


But imo, Man still using internal cumbustion engines..... puh-lease!

[Executor]

The Manta is a space craft, the Imperium have plenty of ships capable of single handedly laying waste to an entire planet. The point is that Tau ground forces have no answer to Titans.

:sigh: The Tau use it as a Titan. See EPIC. The difference between a Manta and a Titan is that a Titan Walks and a Manta is treated as a Skimmer. The Manta has mutiple roles as either a Heavy Space Bomber, Heavy Transport and a Titan.

As for the Tau space fleet, an Emperor class battleship or a Retribution could take on any Tau ship in a one on one battle and win.

One problem with that is
A: Tau don't have a true Battleship. The Gal'leath has been used as the Tau mainstay vessel since the begining and other than the amount of damage it can take is hardly worth calling a battleship.
b: Believe it or not Battleships are actually rare. The most heaviest defended place in the Imperium could only field 24 (EOT codex). So comparing a rare battleship to a fleet basically made up of only Cruiser comparable vessel is pretty incorrect and still doesn't prove that the Tau fleet is weaker.

On the subject of Human technology, the Imperial tech is by far more advanced than Tau. Examples include compact (not battlesuit) power armour

What about Stealth Suits?. Power Armour are battlesuits. Power Armour has much the same abilities merely less psysical enhancements.

genomodification, teleportation (they use warp tech, much better distance for less power drain)

Wha? Genomodifcation is what the what Caste system is based on. They've merely gone for the Natural Evolution approach. Teleportation isn't the safest method either not to mention what use would Tau have it. Assaulting other Ship?
Tau Warp engines other than being slower (1/3 the adverage of Imperial ships) are the safest means and are inaffected by perils of the warp. Another advantage is that they can maintain a constant speed while Imperial ships have to rely on the wrap to determine their speed. All this is explained in Tau bfg fluff.

psycho-channeling technology comparable to that of the eldar (less advanced but still near the league, as opposed to say orks, hrud, tau, or any other race, the Humans have the 3rd best grasp of psychic power, after the Old Ones and Eldar)

I think the Nicassar would have to say something about that unless you've seen any Human psyker able to move their ships with merely their psychic powers (which is what the Nicassar do. If you don't know the Nicassar is a member of the Tau empire). In anycase arguing that Tau are less advanced because they never developed that technology (why would they their species isn't psychic) is kinda pointless.

the humans have better guns (not always power-wise, but a lasgun can be used for a longer period of combat than a pulse rifle, and then there's the ordnance)

Strange I don't see better guns. Longer Period of combat??? Lasguns only advantage is they are easy to get ammo for. Which when it comes down to hit it's about preference.
Very Strong and Long Range with Ammo restrictions
Weak with normal range with little ammo restrictions
Whats the advantage of Ordnance over Tau weaponary?. Ap3? (other than the Tau themselves nearly no other race fields a large amount of ap3 (Marines are rare believe it or not).

[quote]there's computing and guidance (hunter-killers require no markerlighting, the machine spirits, though not perfectly understood, can follow more complex commands than drone intelligences.)[/quote[

Hunter-killers are required to be fired by the crew (requiring LOS and crew bs) and are not unlimited range (they are in 40K but at epic scale they are hardly unlimited while Seekers still are). And if your comparing Guidance what about Seeker Missiles? I don't see any Imperial weapon that can do the same.

How is the Machine Spirit surperior than Drones????

[Ork_Boy]

Auctually they probably will only have:

Orks
Chaos Marines
Space Marines
Eldar

Although this is only for the first release, there will be more and more racfes eventually...

[badwitchproject]

The only confirmed armies are Space Marines, Chaos Marines and Orks, nothing else has been confirmed and probably won't be unless a dev tells someone or we see a screenshot of it.

[Maximus Decimus]

Executor: actually the Tau cannot maintain warp travel for long periods of time like the imperium can and thats why each section of the tau empire is commanded by a HQ instead of one central location like the tau homeworld. Read codex Tau for HQ fluff and for tau long distance they do not have a beacon to determine where they are therefore they cannot travel through warp for a long peroid.

[Uzgah]

Warp skimming I think they call it. Short hops rather than long hauls. Even then not all Tau ships are capable of that.

[Executor]

Maximus Decimus: The Tau don't actually enter the warp. Without psykers they can't. The most they can do is force themselves between warp and real space(taken from the bfg fluff).
Achieving transition to the Warp required more than technology, it required psychically attuned minds and the Tau race boasted no psykers. Without them to guide the transition no amount of power could breach the dimensional barriers. The best the Tau could do was make a partial transition, forcing themselves into the void that separated Warpspace and real space before they were hurled out again like a ball held under water then released.

Data gathered at great cost during the test flights was studied closely. The Earth caste scientists made the observation that the boundary between real space and warp space was not a neat line. It was closer to being a turbulent ocean fomented by the tempestuous warp tides below. By carefully angling their descent toward the Warp and extending the field generated by the gravitic drive into a wing, shaped to hold the vessel down a Tau vessel could extend the duration of the dive considerably. The speeds achieved in the ascent back to real space were staggering and this coupled with the effect of the Warp on time and space ensured that the real distance covered by the dive was immense. Early tests lost several drone ships because they inadvertently passed far beyond the sensor range of their recovery vessels.

The details were soon resolved. There was still a major constraint, only the most powerful (and bulky) drives could sustain the gravitic wing throughout the dive and the power drain meant that considerable recharge time was needed between dives. Also by comparison to actually navigating the warp the pace was still very slow. Taking typical Imperial Warp speeds the Tau drive was slower by a factor of five (1/3 for the latest vessels). The speed was consistent though, did not expose the Tau to the perils of the Warp and enabled the Tau to expand beyond their home star for the first time.

[Maximus Decimus]

Thanks for that. :)

[H.B.M.C.]

That is actually wrong. With the exception of the Merchant class Tau vessels can take on Imperial equals. And Tau aircraft are actually superior in terms of weaponary its merely veteran pilots which the Tau lack (see Tau epic).

Most of the recent Tau ships (and I mean Tau ships, not their allies/subjugated races ships) are being converted from civillian and non-warship frames. They have very few pure space-craft designed for combat.

Their space stations are excellent, but their space forces leave much to be desired.

And the Tau are not "technilogically superior" to the Imperium. The difference between the Imperium and the Tau when it comes to technology is that Mankind is afraid of technology. If Mankind shared the same views on technology as the Tau, there would be nothing to stop humanity from destroying everything in their path. Remember where the Imperium was before the Dark Ages of technology. Because technology has become a religeous practice rather than a technical thing, advancement is frowned upon because it "goes against the codes" or the Machine God. If the Adeptus Mechanicus wasn't afraid of making advances, then things would be very different.

BYE

[Davion]

SNIP

Indeed, if 12 starships are able to break through Tau lines, destroy several Tau worlds, a Tau battle fleet a warsphere and then day a large army on a sept world. Think what a thousand could do, the Tau would be blown away.

Also unless you got 5% from fluff somewere it seems a rather high number of firewarriors :), can we see some proof please?.

And the Manta, from the fluff I gather the only way they were able to fight off Imperial Titians was with hit and run tactics.... when they were drawn out into battle they were defeated in detail.....( don't have the codex here, but I'm sure I remember that.)

Remember right now no one is really pushing on the Tau, I hope/expect them to be hit VERY hard by either the Imperials/Orks/Nids ect. Right now I see them as a toddler running full speed at a wall, thier in for a fall.

[H.B.M.C.]

Also unless you got 5% from fluff somewere it seems a rather high number of firewarriors :), can we see some proof please?.

Did I say something about 5% ?? If I did I forgot about it.

Remember right now no one is really pushing on the Tau, I hope/expect them to be hit VERY hard by either the Imperials/Orks/Nids ect. Right now I see them as a toddler running full speed at a wall, thier in for a fall.

The Tau want the truce to stay active because they know the power of the Imperium. After reading Kill Team, it's made quite apparent that:

A). The Imperium know very little about the Tau.
B). The Tau know very little about the Galaxy.
C). The Tau realise that they are not a threat to the Imperium in any way shape or form other than an ideological threat (people might see them as a Utopia), and the Tau know they won't be a threat for some time, so they're very happy with a truce.
D). There are parts of the Tau Empire that are breaking away, or begining to crack as they see more sights in the Universe (Farsight is one example). It seems that the "real world" is having a big effect upon the nieve Tau, and some of them are wising up to the whole "Greater Good" nonsense that the Empire's propaganda spinners say.
E). The Water Caste is by far the most dangerous caste. They don't have to fight you pysically to lure you into a trap and have you killed. They're fantastic puppet-masters.
F). The Tau are no more "good guys" in 40K than anyone else. They're just as dark as every other race in the game. They may go on about The Greater Good and how people are free to join, but in the end planets the Tau encounter do join, with their cities in ruins and their armies smashed, they join.

All the Tau have going for them are the facts that most people don't know alot about them, and that they have exceptionally good PR. ;)

BYE

[Executor]

Indeed, if 12 starships are able to break through Tau lines, destroy several Tau worlds, a Tau battle fleet a warsphere and then day a large army on a sept world. Think what a thousand could do, the Tau would be blown away.

Break though what Tau line? The Imperium attack without warning and destroyed an outnumbered Tau fleet catcing the Tau by surprise. They destroyed an Agri world and a tiny fishing colony with no defenses.

This is also before Tau got most of their heavier weapons technology (namely the ship Ion Cannon and Hero class).

Also unless you got 5% from fluff somewere it seems a rather high number of firewarriors , can we see some proof please?.

Rather high number of fire warriors? Thats rather low IMO for an entire species. Even if it was 1% Sa'cea Fire Warriors would equal the Sabbat crusade forces.

And the Manta, from the fluff I gather the only way they were able to fight off Imperial Titians was with hit and run tactics.... when they were drawn out into battle they were defeated in detail.....( don't have the codex here, but I'm sure I remember that.)

Fluff said nothing of the sort. It said they match Imperial Titans with Manta Missile Destroyers.

The Tau want the truce to stay active because they know the power of the Imperium. After reading Kill Team, it's made quite apparent that

Kill Team? HA! thats a laugh. Kill Team has fluff holes you could fit a planet into.

B). The Tau know very little about the Galaxy.

That can be said about the humans as well. The Tau are fully aware of Chaos but see them as Incarnates of the Mont'au as told in ECHOES OF THE MONT'AU article. Other than the Necrons and Daemons which Tau haven't had trouble with there isn't really anything important they don't know.

D). There are parts of the Tau Empire that are breaking away, or begining to crack as they see more sights in the Universe (Farsight is one example). It seems that the "real world" is having a big effect upon the nieve Tau, and some of them are wising up to the whole "Greater Good" nonsense that the Empire's propaganda spinners say.

That is sorta true Farsight is the only true case of a rebel Tau (and his reasons are unknown). Brightsword on the otherhand was never truly rebel it was a trap for the Last Chances to show the Imperium up and allow the invasions of multiple systems while have plausible deniability blaming a rebel commander. This was explained by Gav in a E-mail Q&A (By Aftermath I think). I've found many people actually thought that Brightsword was actually rebel which is wrong.

The Tau are no more "good guys" in 40K than anyone else. They're just as dark as every other race in the game. They may go on about The Greater Good and how people are free to join, but in the end planets the Tau encounter do join, with their cities in ruins and their armies smashed, they join.

That incorrect. As specifically stated in Tau design notes that the Tau don't subjugate rather convince using Technology and trading agreements.

Most of the recent Tau ships (and I mean Tau ships, not their allies/subjugated races ships) are being converted from civillian and non-warship frames. They have very few pure space-craft designed for combat.

True but they can still go on heads with Imperial equal ships

And the Tau are not "technilogically superior" to the Imperium. The difference between the Imperium and the Tau when it comes to technology is that Mankind is afraid of technology. If Mankind shared the same views on technology as the Tau, there would be nothing to stop humanity from destroying everything in their path. Remember where the Imperium was before the Dark Ages of technology. Because technology has become a religeous practice rather than a technical thing, advancement is frowned upon because it "goes against the codes" or the Machine God. If the Adeptus Mechanicus wasn't afraid of making advances, then things would be very different.

That debatable. Without STC the Imperium would have an almost impossible time catching up. Just because they can reproduce power armour doesn't mean they understand how it works. They'd basically have to start Science from scratch
Weather the Imperium or Tau are technologically surperior is always speculation as not enough is know about the Tau. I merely see the Tau referred to in many Publications (such as kill team) as being technologically surperior compared to the Imperium.

[Shakrith]

Umm evolution is not a technology, teleportation is very useful, more ammo actually does mean longer combat, plus there are undiscovered weapons.

[Cortanus]

From what I've read, information garnered from books, articles and other fluff, is that the Imperium does have a good deal of understanding of some of the technology they use, but not all of it. Things like Plasma weapons are simply replicated. They have lost that information. But Leman Russ variants, Land Raider variants, Predator variants, differant Lasgun patterns all give hints that alot of the technology is understood.

They wouldn't be able to modify equipment they had no understanding of, they just have a very strange view of the technology they use. For instance, the Machine Spirit in vehicles is quite obviously limited artificial intelligence, but they regard it as a blessing of the machine god.

[Executor]

Umm evolution is not a technology, teleportation is very useful,

Of course evolution isn't a technology.
Other than boarding enemy ships there is limited uses for Teleportation. Not to mention Imperuial Teleportation is quite dangerous.

more ammo actually does mean longer combat.

Not nessesarily. Having a stronger weapon means when you hit you'd have a greater change to kill or seriously wound your opponenet than with a weaker weapon. Which means less ammo is required to kill the enemy.

[Maximus Decimus]

The machine spirit is the psychic essence of one person, it is transfered to a sphere like object in the case of tanks. This is stated in old fluff and until i read that i always thought the machine spirit was AI. Even if the machine spirit was AI i dont think its primative like you say since if you piss it off it wont work for ya. So finally the machine spirit is the psychic essence or soul of a person and not AI.

[ComanderSeagoon]

kinda like eldar spiritstones? but less advanced?

Also is that what runs the servo skulz.

[DarthFelth]

i would say chaos marines (or atleast some) wouls understand it as they were about when it was understood, them and the emperor, if they ever healed him they would regain alot of tech... (possibly anyways)

[Executor]

They might know a little more but all Technology (well all functional STCs) were lost before the Imperium and the Emperor in the war with the Iron Men IIRC.

[Dimension]

someone here said that machine spirits can be animal/are animal in nature. such as titans getting a bear's mind implanted. which is why there have supposably been occasions at which a titan went feral.

[Uzgah]

Bear spirits? Woah... never heard of that.
I always though all machine spirits were AI entities that had a personality. Hell don't they choose their own names?
Always something Roman sounding too. Invictus Nova, Gladius Hepilous Just some names I remember from somewhere... Couldn't tell you where from though.

[DarthFelth]

well the emperor and all must of had a pretty good understanding, better than in present, i mean he did create the marines and all, i mean i always thought either that alot was lost due to the heresy or the emperor kept everyone in the dark as to help keep him in power, then again i dont know or remeber all the fluff

[Defunk203]

Hell if the imperium brought the emperor back they wouldn't need the technology. It would be the great crusades all over again and hopefully, FINALLY someone might kill the eldar off completely (pointy eared, arogant, wussy ponces grrrrrrrrrr.)

Cheers and remember BURN THE HERETIC or if not lightly toast him.

Defunk203

[Shakrith]

I wish the Emperor would return. Teleportation is fantastically useful in non-combat situations. Machine spirits actually are AIs in the new fluff, though they often have a person's thought pattern imprinted. So much technology was lost in the Dark age, it is impossible to say that any race's tech is better, as the pre-Imperial technology is often described as almost magical, to at least the technological degree of the Eldar, but much more common (eldar restrict use to when needed, the Humans don't). What are the iron men?

[Cortanus]

What are the iron men?

The Iron Men from First and Only? They are uncorrupted versions of the Chaos Androids from Space Crusade.

[Uzgah]

I always thought the Chaos Andriods from Space Crusade were something MBGames invented for SC. Then several years later BAM Necrons. I always thought they were the same guys...
Ooooh if its another race... they all destroyed then?

[hybris]

I'm praying to my Avatar, that Eldar at least will be in THIS PC-version of WH40k. I simply cannot live without them in yet another game :(

[Uzgah]

The Eldar were in Rites of war. However, I didn't like that game at all. I s'pose I never really gave it a chance. It still sucked in the short time I played it though.

[Warlok]

My money would be on the Tyranids for the bonus non-playable race. Tau might not have a place in the game setting (story-wise) and my Necrons would likely be so momentous an inclusion that a full game would have to be devoted to them - thats the scope of their incidence in the 40k world. Maybe Eldar, but Tyranids can be more randomly/flexibly introduced in the context of whatever story they`re doing: monsters.

[Maximus Decimus]

Don't think tau would fit story wise and tau & necros are not core races of 40k so there should be no need to include them until all the rest of the races are in through expansions and/or patches.

[ObsceneName]

Of all the races i dislike in 40k its eldar
theyre simply bleh boring everybody i know that plays eldar plays them to powergame they never play eldar because their fluff is good i could go on a rant why eldar are rigged i wont

[Rikesgard]

I was never comfortable with the theme behind the Tau. 40k, to me, was always a game that stood out because its setting, while incredible, was also depressing like none other. The Imperium just can't win, and the Eldar are on the verge of extinction. Ultimately the Imperium will fall to the numerous enemies lined up against it.

The Tau changed all that. They're a race which is free of Chaos, and has beliefs which espouse the value of peace and cooperation regardless of race. It's extremely disappointing to see a truly good race added to the game, but worse to know that the Tau are also thriving, rather than trying to delay the end like the Eldar, or struggle against the Orks, Tyranids, Chaos, Necrons, and otherwise.

So I really hope Tau won't be included, because their theme is just unsettling.

[JumpPackBoy!]

I dont think the Tau are unsetting. I think they add a balance to the game because for every other race the universe is all about war and death but for the Tau they are trying to prosper through peace and I think they needed that in the game.

[Maximus Decimus]

What does say thinking eldar players are power gamers have ANYTHING to do with them being in the game. They have good fluff and are a core race which is plenty enough. I like the tau even though im a true imperial player but there is one thing i do dislike about alot of tau players and thats that they think that the tau are the mightiest and gonna be the greatest empire with none to stop them, this does not include every players view however but does alot of players that I have seen. I think eldar would add to the story really well especially since its gonna have conspiracies and treason in it.

[Rikesgard]

I dont think the Tau are unsetting. I think they add a balance to the game because for every other race the universe is all about war and death but for the Tau they are trying to prosper through peace and I think they needed that in the game.

There is no creative rule that says you can't have a game setting which is primarily about death and hopelessness. That's what 40k's trademark sort of was to those who looked at the theme rather than the specifics. So I don't believe it being a balance is really any sort of justification, as I don't think there has to be a balance.

[Dimension]

very interesting point Warlok makes about the Necrons. core race or not, they are pretty dangerous, and them appearing only in an "en passant" battle during an anti-chaos campaign wouldn't do this race justice, what with the whole awakening from their tombs thing they've got goin' at this time.

originally posted by Maximus DecimusI like the tau even though im a true imperial player but there is one thing i do dislike about alot of tau players and thats that they think that the tau are the mightiest and gonna be the greatest empire with none to stop them, this does not include every players view however but does alot of players that I have seen.

I really don't want to step on anyones toes, but from what I've gathered on these forums, everyone thinks their race/army is the best out there. many are strongly identifying themselves with their army to the point that they tend to be a little ticked if someone disses on their army saying they're not the best. haven't there even been a few small-scale flamewars because of that? i can actually understand such feelings when it comes to playing on the tabletop because people dumped a shitload of money, time and concentration collecting, assembling, painting and playing an army.

however, you people should keep in mind that this is going to be a computer game, and playing another army costs no extra money, and only a few minutes to put in badges and customize colors to get a new army running.

therefore, i think saying things like "this army/unit owns all/many other armies/units", and complaining about people saying this is kinda out of place on these forums. noone is going to exit any of these debates any smarter than they were before(since the game isn't out yet), and all everyone got from it was aggravation or resignation of another theoretically interesting thread devolving into a debate about why spoons are better than forks.

again, i in no way whish to step on anyones toes by saying this.

[Maximus Decimus]

Forks are better than spoons!! lol jk. Whoever started this thread should of made it a poll since right now no one has a clue to how many ppl prefer eldar over tau and visa versa being a featured race. I wonder since there are psychic power in the game would it not leave the tau at a great disadvantage in game and how would they deal with daemons since they have no equipment designed for daemon hunting like maybe psychers of other races etc.

[Anthonace]

i wonder what would happen if all the marines began a second great crusade to liberate the imperium from cults and other nasties?

would they be beaten into a pulp by cults of various kinds
or could they win

there are around 1 000 000 space marines in total in the imperium think about it....

[Ragnar_PA83]

No, they should not. If the Tau are in this game I will have to question buying it.

There are so few Tau worlds, all clumped together in the middle of nowere. It makes no sence for them to be in the game.

Besides the Tau just had a game. Make room for another race...


So far the safe money is on

I.G./ Necron for the non-playable race
Eldar for the playable
Just Imagine them Putting in a new race that noones ever heard they have already got a chapter made up by Relic and is approved by the GW guys and what could hurt from a new alien race to shoot at!! hey we are only human right

[Executor]

I was never comfortable with the theme behind the Tau. 40k, to me, was always a game that stood out because its setting, while incredible, was also depressing like none other.

Orks broke the theme of 'depressing and dark' atmosphere way before the Tau were even thought of. In earlier editions Orks were practically clowns of 40K it only in the 3rd ed they lost some of that and bacome slightly more serious.

The Dark 40K which people go on about Tau ruining hasn't really been that dark. Anyone heard of Death Ferrets? I still have the models. And Jaerako bright orange Chimps.

IMO Tau provide a good constrast to all the other races which makes all the other races seem much more dark than before. They certainly aren't 'good' but they are the most peaceful race.

I wonder since there are psychic power in the game would it not leave the tau at a great disadvantage in game and how would they deal with daemons since they have no equipment designed for daemon hunting like maybe psychers of other races etc.

Well Shooting them has worked pretty well so far ^_^

[No Surrender]

I'd rather see the Eldar than the Tau for the simple reason that the Eldar are more varied.

[Richtofen]

I wonder since there are psychic power in the game would it not leave the tau at a great disadvantage in game and how would they deal with daemons since they have no equipment designed for daemon hunting like maybe psychers of other races etc.

Rail Guns, lots of Rail Guns.

Tau are one of the most unique races in 40k. They are the most scientifically advanced of the living races, Eldar are a more technologically advanced, but most of that is due to the fact that most of their technology is based on the spirits and the warp. Tau are newcomers, they have the shortest lives and are complete opposite to the eldar. While both are technologically advanced, the eldar are heavily psychically connected and their tech is based on this. Tau on the otherhand have almost no psychic abilites (although some may argue about ethereals) and their technology is based from purely physical aspects. While the eldar live for a long time, the tau live very short lives, 40 human years if I remember correctly. Tau is a nice addition to the game as they are the one race that strives to better the entire galaxy and is very optimistic but naive, one Tau even claims to have killed Slaanesh. Tau really don't know anything about the warp or chaos. They make a nice change and if there is one reason why I like them. they dont have skulls everywhere like every other race (bar tyranids)

[Executor]

Well Tau retire from service at around 40. which for my country anyway is about 65 years old is when people retire on adverage. I assume that Tau life span is around 50-60.

I wouldn't say Tau have the shortest lifespan as considering that the quality of human life in most of the Imperium it wouldn't be surprising for the adverage Imperial citizen to have the same kind of life span.

[Shakrith]

Killed Slaany? I don't think so...

[No Surrender]

You can't kill a Chaos god anymore than you can kill a C'tan. And no, the Tau are not the most scientifically advanced species. The Necrons are.

[Triceron]

The Tau are a relatively new race to the Warhammer world. I mean they were only introduced a few years back while there's still a slew of other races that could be introduced, races that have been around longer and have a larger history. Tyranids, Eldar, Dark Eldar and the likes still have a lot to be touched on.

Personally I like the optimism of the Tau tho, it makes them very unique to the Warhammer universe. What I'd like to see GW do tho is maybe split off the Kroot and make them their own faction. Expand the Tau to incorporate more races they liberate and have the Kroot become independants with a bigger base army. I like the Kroot, the other bilogical-based alien race that aren't Tyranids. Wouldn't it be cool to see your Kroot units evolve in the game after feasting on the flesh of the freshly slain?

[Cortanus]

Tau are one of the most unique races in 40k.

Would you care to explain why they are more unique than the rest of the races? Every race is unique.

[No Surrender]

The Kroot already have their own army in the form of the Kroot Mercs list. And I doubt that in the 40k universe the Tau will remain optimistic for long...

[Anthonace]

eventually some of the tau will start to crack mabie a rebel sept or the beginning of psychic powers then you get a second imperium (Tau versions of space marines? :argh: )
it will only be so long until they get some real experience of the harsh 40k universe

[H.B.M.C.]

I really don't want to step on anyones toes, but from what I've gathered on these forums, everyone thinks their race/army is the best out there. many are strongly identifying themselves with their army to the point that they tend to be a little ticked if someone disses on their army saying they're not the best.

While that is true on some levels, you really do find a lot of Tau players who simply will not relent when they're told how small and comparativley insignificant their race is compared to other races.

They don't have a large population. They hold very few major worlds. Their fleet is sub-par at best and cannot travel the warp. They advance very quickly and a good grasp of technology (rather than a fear of it, like the Imperium), but they're still a little fish in a pond full of nuclear submarines.

BYE

[Uzgah]

and is very optimistic but naive, one Tau even claims to have killed Slaanesh.
See he said claims!

so little messages of:
Killed Slaany? I don't think so...
and
You can't kill a Chaos god anymore than you can kill a C'tan.

He never said that the Tau killed Slaanesh. He simple said that one Tau claimed that he had. Ya know it rings back around to the naiveity of the race. They don't really know about Chaos. They certainly don't understand Chaos' intentions. I wouldn't claim to understand Chaos' intentions. I don't think the Imperium fully understands there intentions.
We all know Chaos want to rule... but then what would they do?

[No Surrender]

I don't think any sane man can fully comprehend the plans of the Chaos gods. Atleast according to the fluff.

[Dimension]

well, in theory you could incorporate IG forces into the Tau. i seem to remember in white dwarf that some guy actually did that, he had a Tau Force with IG mercs, that joined the Tau after they were cut off from backup. some of the IG squads even had Tau torso armor and weapons if i recall correctly. naturally you could also make a stand alone IG merc force with no tau supervision/support. however i suspect that this is as far as it goes. chaos, tyranids, orks, dark eldar and space marines would never yield and die fighting rather than joining the Tau of their own free will. eldar... who knows?

[Rikesgard]

Orks broke the theme of 'depressing and dark' atmosphere way before the Tau were even thought of. In earlier editions Orks were practically clowns of 40K it only in the 3rd ed they lost some of that and bacome slightly more serious.

The Orks aren't a "good" race, they're one of the evil races. I was referring to the depressed, hopeless feeling being present with the races that are, to an extent, good guys. I dislike to Tau because both the Imperiuma and Eldar, while good in comparison to Chaos or the Tyranids, are good, yet they're quite merciless and brutal in many situations. Neither are totally good. The Tau, though they have a couple faults in their government system, are essentially pure good. They care about everyone, they're willing to accept anyone, and so forth. We've never been able to root for a truly good race before the Tau.

[Triceron]

GW basically groups it up as order and disorder. This is the case for Eye of Terror anyways.

SMurfs, IG, Sisters, Eldar, Daemon Hunters and Tau are of Order while Chaos, Orks, Dark Eldar, 'Nids and Necrons are of disorder.

[Amur_Tiger]

I don't play 40k but I've been reading up a lot since the announcing of this game. From what I've seen while the Tau may seem to "pure" for 40k give them some time they're still bug sized in comparison to the bigger players. I'm sure some catastrophe will jade them before they estabish enough territory that they won't be wiped away. I don't think they'd fit in the game though given the focus on the marines, eldar would work pretty well though..... and it would balance out the chaos vs. order thing.

[Crested_Ones]

[QUOTE]I'm sure some catastrophe will jade them before they estabish enough territory that they won't be wiped away. [\QUOTE]

do you think GW would allow one of their armies to become extinct? :comment:

[deggy]

GW basically groups it up as order and disorder. This is the case for Eye of Terror anyways.
SMurfs, IG, Sisters, Eldar, Daemon Hunters and Tau are of Order while Chaos, Orks, Dark Eldar, 'Nids and Necrons are of disorder.

I'm not a 100% sure, but I think the Nid's and the Necrons are classified as a forces of nature and unable to ally with either FOD or FOO or each other. At least that's how the Martial Law rule worked in the Vogen Campaign I believe. Basically, anyone in the Foo or the Fod could potentially strike a bargain with another member of the same group. But Nids and Necrons are beyond negotiations or are incapable of bargaining.

[Shakrith]

Ok. Here is the technological hierarchy, from best to worst:
1) Necrons
2) Pre-Imperial Humanity
3) Eldar
4) Tau
5) Orks
6) Lost & the DAmned

[Anthonace]

[QUOTE]I'm sure some catastrophe will jade them before they estabish enough territory that they won't be wiped away. [\QUOTE]

do you think GW would allow one of their armies to become extinct? :comment:

yes.
the squats were a race that existed in second edition WH40K and no mention of them is made in third edition, so really they are dead

[Triceron]

what the heck are squats???

[Shakrith]

Short little people. Dwarfs with high tech!

[Cortanus]

yes.
the squats were a race that existed in second edition WH40K and no mention of them is made in third edition, so really they are dead

Actually, Andy Chambers made the point clear on the whole Squat thing - They will not be coming back.

[mr_mich]

For the record, Andy Chambers is gone.

[H.B.M.C.]

I'm not a 100% sure, but I think the Nid's and the Necrons are classified as a forces of nature and unable to ally with either FOD or FOO or each other. At least that's how the Martial Law rule worked in the Vogen Campaign I believe. Basically, anyone in the Foo or the Fod could potentially strike a bargain with another member of the same group. But Nids and Necrons are beyond negotiations or are incapable of bargaining.

There is a key difference between the 'Crons and the 'Nids though. Sometimes the 'Crons will show up and fight on "your side". That is, they'll shoot at the guys you're shooting at, but won't coordinate themselves with you. They'll do their own thing. They're fighting for their own goals, and if you don't happen to be in the way then they won't do anything to you.

'Nids on the other hand eat everyone (except 'Crons, funnily enough), so will never end up fighting on your side by coincidence.

BYE

[No Surrender]

The 'nids don't eat Necrons because
1) They're afraid of the Necrons
2) The 'nids only eat bio matter, most Necron Tomb Worlds are dead.

[Whiteferret]

For the Eye of Terror Campaign however they did do a little bit of redefining, There is the forces of Order,
Imperium, Eldar

Forces of Disorder,
Choas, Orks, Dark Eldar

and Switzerland (those who don't fit anywhere else and care only about their own empires)
Tyranids, Tau, Necrons

For Eye of Terror, the Tau Empire expanded no matter who they beat, and the losses from necrons and tyranids just counted as a loss of terrirtory for the side that lost to the bugs and necrons.

[TS_ahriman]

The 'nids don't eat Necrons because
1) They're afraid of the Necrons
2) The 'nids only eat bio matter, most Necron Tomb Worlds are dead.

1) Let's hope not.

2) Let's not forget though that the 'Nids aren't stupid. They have no inhibitions to simply attacking and destroying inanimate objects if it helps them perpetuate their race.

[H.B.M.C.]

The 'nids don't eat Necrons because
1) They're afraid of the Necrons

In the same way 'Nids are afraid of all psychic nulls. Necrons are a heavily non-psychic race and have as little to do with the warp as possible. The Hive Mind, an immensley powerful psychic entity, does not like that at all, hence the reason the Hive Fleets skip Tomb Worlds.

BYE

[No Surrender]

Doesn't the hive mind cause psychic nulls?

[Crested_Ones]

First off, the Necrons are metal beings... useless to the Tyranids, who require biomass of planets and races to feed off of.

Yes, the Tyranids do cause psychic nulls but that's only because the size of the hive fleet is soo vast that by the time they've surrounded a planet (usually without their notice), any form of communication to other worlds is impossible... leaving most planets unable to call for reinforcements.

Finally, I dont believe the Tyranids are afraid of psychic nulls as they're controlled through synapse:
"The junction across which a nerve impulse passes from an axon terminal to a neuron, muscle cell, or gland cell."
Meaning every single tyranid makes up a small part of the overmind, each creature a single cell... (mentions this in the codex), so they are not controlled by psychic means.

[Cortanus]

Finally, I dont believe the Tyranids are afraid of psychic nulls as they're controlled through synapse:
"The junction across which a nerve impulse passes from an axon terminal to a neuron, muscle cell, or gland cell."
Meaning every single tyranid makes up a small part of the overmind, each creature a single cell... (mentions this in the codex), so they are not controlled by psychic means.

The Synapse works by psychically(sp?) linking the lesser 'Nids to the Synapse creatures, therefore a psychic null could very well negate Synapse control.

[Crested_Ones]

we could argue it all day, but in the end its all fluff... we can only hope the person who helped write up the Codex:Tyranids will one day stumble across this thread and clear up this question ;)

[H.B.M.C.]

Doesn't the hive mind cause psychic nulls?

No. They don't cause psychic nulls. They cause the exact opposite of that - totaly psychic interfereance. They are the "white noise" of psychic beings.

Whereas the Emperor is a big Beacon in the warp, bright and always visible like a lighthouse, the Tyranids, being a completely psychic race, disrupt the warp like a massive boulder being thrown in a still pond. They don't block the warp like the Necrons do, they just make it near unusuable because of the disruption.

BYE

[vic 1]

i have no proff of world no's but i have read a book called lastchancers in which it says that the tau only exist cos the imp battle fleet that was sent to whipe out there world was lost in a warp storm which lasted for thousands of years when it cleard the tau where in nearly the same posishon as thay are today.the imps cud kill the tau any time but the tau know this and do not provoke the imp as thaay know thay will be creamed. ps. sorry but my personal opinion of the tau is that thayare a race puerly for kids.Can u rely see the tau besting my emperor's children !!i mean come on

[Stormer]

yea but the Tau are growing rapidly in ways of technology and worlds, it will be thousands of years before the Tau is large enough to mount a full scale war on the impurium, but in that time maybe the orks will or tyraids will have wiped out all by then :wow:

Together we should stand :buddies:

[FluxX]

They travel through time, and waste everything ;)

[/end b-movie storyline generator]

[Uzgah]

Vic, yep mate you re right in one respect. The Tau were discovered by the IMperium thousands of years ago. When they were in the 'dark age' as it were. Barbaric tribes fighting each other. A cleansing force was dispatched to wipe them out and make room for Imperial colonists.
As it turned out a large warp storm disprupted the fleet and closed of the area of space for 3000 years. During that time the Tau went from Barbarians to the funky anime inspired 'blueys' of today.
The idea that they are a 'kids' army however, I have to disagree. The mecha inspiration of the models is what attrcted me to them. Granted I have never beat a true Chaos army, but like I posted ages go, I don't play to win. I play too see the look on my opponents face when I do something very 'un-tau', like enter close-combat with Fire Warriors =]

[vic 1]

ok sorry if i flamed ure army m8 but the thing which got me in to 40k like a lot of others was the dark opresive atmos that the world generated .any how i was out of touch whith the sean for a few years and when i came back i found the tau which i found to be very out of touch whith the rest of the races .but in the end it is each to his own and more variaty can only lead to a better game yes ? ps. i wud like to have seen his face there 2

[hezz]

Tau is my favorite army ever, and ive got alot. And i also tend to do allot a Un-Tau moves. I ussually send masses ofBattlesuits into CC. And i think that the Tau have as much a reason to be in the game as any other. Sure theyve alo been in Firewarrior but The SM have been in far more games. And is it sure that the game will focus on only one time-section? What if the SM sp will follow the Horus heresy ass well as the chaos. And that the orks will follow the raid on the tau empire?

[Crested_Ones]

the fact that the Tau favoured alliances between races made them different that all the other WH40K races... :buddies:

[Stormer]

can someone explain to me what the horus hersey is all about, cause iv read the odd thing like they turned on the impirium but does any one know why they did and the rest stayed very loyal to the impirium. i cant find hardly any info on this subject not even on the game worskshop website.

[Cisst]

about the HH: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/horus_heresy.shtml
more: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD161_Horus_Heresy.shtml

[H.B.M.C.]

sorry but my personal opinion of the tau is that thayare a race puerly for kids.

They're not a race for Kids. Tau are an extremely unbalanced forced, unbalancd against themselves that is, and anyone without experience in the game is sure to get creamed if they make them their first army.

I know enough "new players" who've chosen Tau and quickly either dumped them in favour or something else, or dumped 40K altogether as they could never win a game.

BYE

[Cortanus]

They're not a race for Kids. Tau are an extremely unbalanced forced, unbalancd against themselves that is, and anyone without experience in the game is sure to get creamed if they make them their first army.

I know enough "new players" who've chosen Tau and quickly either dumped them in favour or something else, or dumped 40K altogether as they could never win a game.

BYE

I know someone who has been playing for years and can't win consistanly with his Tau army. Well, not against my Salamanders.

[BrianGeneral]

Tau's jobs are to waste enemy at far as possible,and using pinpoint attacks.They aren't suit for CC,because their guns are enough for clearing enemy at far.

I believe that each race has its properties,and there's no "unbalanced" race.
If there are "unbalanced races",then I can say Tyranids is coz they're mainly for CC.

[Cortanus]

Tau's jobs are to waste enemy at far as possible,and using pinpoint attacks.They aren't suit for CC,because their guns are enough for clearing enemy at far.

And therein lies the problem. Any halfway decent 40k player can use terrain to negate the long range of the Tau. My Salamanders, asider from the Land Raider and now Predator Destructor, have an effective range of 24", maximum. Yet, I still manage to wipe out an army that has an effective range of at least 12" more than me.

[DarthFelth]

you know you have a effective range higher than my khorne marine army (stil ant figured out a name :() think mine is about 12" bar the 2 rhinos and 1 land raider

[H.B.M.C.]

Tau's jobs are to waste enemy at far as possible,and using pinpoint attacks.They aren't suit for CC,because their guns are enough for clearing enemy at far.

I believe that each race has its properties,and there's no "unbalanced" race.
If there are "unbalanced races",then I can say Tyranids is coz they're mainly for CC.

There are a number of unbalanced forces in 40K. It's nieve to say that there aren't.

Iron Warriors - Definately unbalanced. 9 Oblits and 4 pieces of Indirect Firing Ordnance. Oblits were nerfed when they became T4(5) rather than a straight T5, but the army is still very deadly if you tweak it correctly.

Elysian Drop Troops - "Optional" status aside, this list is probably the most dangerous army in the game. It can, assuming you know what you're doing, wipe out an entire enemy 1850 point army in a single turn. It's possible to use all slots on the Force Org Chart apart from 2 Troops and 1 HQ with an 1850 point EDT army, and you can Deep Strike on the first turn landing with flamers, heavy flamers and demo charges galore without much trouble. Not many armies can take 150+ models landing on them in two turns.

Tau - Unbalanced agianst themselves. In a world of shooty armies they're pretty damned horrible. They have the most consistent anti-tank weapon in the game (TL-Railgun), but beyond that they haven't got many things of great worth. Stealth Suits are nice, Drones are fantastic, but a lot of other things are quite terrible. Suits are good units, but are quite pricey and very fragile. Their range is 36" with the missile-pod and shorter with everything else. Firewarriors would be great if they had a better BS, but due to the AP5 of their weapons and a complete lack of access to special and/or heavy weapons they won't be winning any awards soon. Pathfinders can be kinda useful, but over-all Seeker Missiles are too risky and Railrifles are just plain horrible. Kroot are even more of a joke, being I3 they just don't make good assault troops. They make better shooters than assaulters, and they're not that good at shooting either. Tau have a weak list - there's no two ways about it. It doesn't mean they can't be won with (I've seen them win, even lost to them once), but they lose more than they win and you need experience to do it (and even that isn't a garentee).

Kroot Mercs - Kroot suck in Tau armies. Without any AT weapons to back them up they're even worse.

Grey Knights/Daemonhunters - Without Marine or Guard Support, GK armies often find themselves without any weaponary above S6. This is a problem as you can't kill tanks when you haven't got any good AT weapons. GK armies are powerful, but they're always at a disadvantage unless they bring allied support.

Tyranids are not unbalanced, they just suffer horribly from the "Shoot the Big Ones" rule, that might as well be renamed "Shoot Whatever the Hell You Like", as it has nothing to do with being a "big one". I could put one Genestealer behind a grid of 1000 Hive Tyrants and you'd still be able to shoot the Genestealer.

BYE

[Cortanus]

Grey Knights/Daemonhunters - Without Marine or Guard Support, GK armies often find themselves without any weaponary above S6. This is a problem as you can't kill tanks when you haven't got any good AT weapons. GK armies are powerful, but they're always at a disadvantage unless they bring allied support.

I take it you chose to ignore the fact that they can take Land Raiders (which have 2 twin linked las cannons that can fire at different targets each (if you use those rules)) and Dreadnoughts (which can have twin linked lascannons and missile launchers), orbital bombardments (although unpredictible, lance strikes are frighteningly powerful, as are melta strikes), and servitors with multi meltas and/or plasma cannons.

[DarthFelth]

you know i think the idea of the Grey Knigh army was cool, however i dont really think it works all that well, i wish they had kept them as a ally like they did in 2nd ed 40k, cos really, thats how they should have remained

[H.B.M.C.]

I take it you chose to ignore the fact that they can take Land Raiders (which have 2 twin linked las cannons that can fire at different targets each (if you use those rules)) and Dreadnoughts (which can have twin linked lascannons and missile launchers), orbital bombardments (although unpredictible, lance strikes are frighteningly powerful, as are melta strikes), and servitors with multi meltas and/or plasma cannons.

Land Raiders - 250 points buys you the most confused tank in the game. TL-Heavy Bolter, TL-Lascannons, and a 10 slot troop capacity.

Is it a troop killer? Is it a tank killer? Is it a transport?

If it's firing its Heavy Botlers at something, the Lascannons are overkill.
If it's firing its Lascannons at something, the Heavy Bolter is wasted.
If it's moving it's firing nothing and all its guns are wasted.

A small BS2 shot with one gun does NOT make up for that.

The Land Raider is the most conflicted tank in the game (other than the Land Raider Helios, which adds an Ordnance weapon into the mix for even more confusion).

Dreadnoughts - No army fears AV12 vehicles, especially walkers, unless they're a GK army with no Guard support...

Multi-Melta Servitors - They're junk. Complete junk. An Inquisitor is best accompanied by 2 HB Servitors, 1 Plasma Servitors, 2 Sages, 1 Mystic and the Inquisitor should have a Psycannon. That's the good unit for Inquisitors, assuming you take them at all.

Plasma Cannon Servitors - Are S7, AP2 with a blast maker. Take 2 Sages and you get a re-roll, meaning no overheat. You're better off hunting infantry, and S7 still can't deal with AV14 unlike a platoon of Guard Lascannons.

Orbital Strike - Cannot be relied on in any way, shape or form to kill tanks.

Armies from the Daemonhunter Codex, unlike armies from the new WH Codex, actually need their allied support to take care of armoured threads simply and effectivley.

BYE

[Whiteferret]

how many of you guys can relate to this?

http://turnsignalsonalandraider.com/index.php?ep=1072065310

[bluevorlon]

Surely Grey Knights are, by their very definition, unbalanced? They're the most precise of what is anyway a fighting force composed of precised, specific, instruments (Space Marines) I'd be worried if Grey Knights could take on armoured divisions of tanks, specifically because it's not what they're for. I always preferred it when the GK's where always 'deep background'; buried in the stories and literature but never really playable or overtly used... they kept their mystery and engimatic nature much more intact.

As for the races... well, If I can't play as the Guard it'll have to be Orks, anything but those sodding tin can marines that used to wipe off the table in my playing days... revenge shall be mine on the digital plane!

[Random Person]

Tau are my favorate race.


Nids however almost always beat tau.

[GreatSamaman]

I personally think the Tyranids don't need to be in the game. When you think about it, the other armies announced each kind of cover a specific type of play:

Space Marines: the small elite surgical strike force army
Chaos: Since Bloodthirster is in the game, I assume one of the Khorne legions will be playable, so you have a mad-pimped out close combat army
Orks: The ravening mindless horde army

And here is how Tyranids fit in, they are both a ravening horde and a massive close combat army , both of which are already covered by Orks and Chaos. However, I agree that Eldar would be a very logical choice, because the other armies dont fit in too well anyway:

Tau: Not that they wouldnt fit in, but they already had a major story in FireWarrior
Necrons: They hardly have their own agenda, would never speak, and they just dont give a crap about anyone, so no sense in allying with anyone (unless the 4th race is not meant to be a race that will pop in and help someone, because if it's just another race you will fight in SP, then Necrons WILL fit in)
Imperial Guard, DaemonHunters, Witchhunters: Space Marines already take up a major part of the Imperial role in the game, so having one of these armies there would sort of tip the seesaw towards it being a big Imperial game, which I dont think(emphasis on "think") is what Relic is going for
Dark Eldar: Unlike the Eldar, they kind of have beef with everyone, and just try to get slaves all the time.

As others have pointed out, Eldar could easily fit into the fluff, as they have just as much to lose to Chaos as the Imperium does, and they would provide an "elf"-like super tech-pimped out alien race for people who like the whole super-advanced alien race (like people who like Protoss from SC) But then again I hope I'm wrong, as i hope Relic can totally surprise me with who they put in the game, I just don't want another horde army like the nids there, because Orks will be enough. Although I will admit it would be easy for Nids to have a reinforcement system, they just pop outta spores, hehe.

[Eisenhorn]

QUOTE:
"Tau - Unbalanced agianst themselves. In a world of shooty armies they're pretty damned horrible. They have the most consistent anti-tank weapon in the game (TL-Railgun), but beyond that they haven't got many things of great worth. Stealth Suits are nice, Drones are fantastic, but a lot of other things are quite terrible. Suits are good units, but are quite pricey and very fragile. Their range is 36" with the missile-pod and shorter with everything else. Firewarriors would be great if they had a better BS, but due to the AP5 of their weapons and a complete lack of access to special and/or heavy weapons they won't be winning any awards soon. Pathfinders can be kinda useful, but over-all Seeker Missiles are too risky and Railrifles are just plain horrible. Kroot are even more of a joke, being I3 they just don't make good assault troops. They make better shooters than assaulters, and they're not that good at shooting either. Tau have a weak list - there's no two ways about it. It doesn't mean they can't be won with (I've seen them win, even lost to them once), but they lose more than they win and you need experience to do it (and even that isn't a garentee)."



The man who said this is no more than a fool i say.... i usaly go fore 50/50 vith rifels and carbines in reg squads making almost ewry enemy within 18" be forced to pining test, railrifels: sure ther expensive and a bit worse profile than the plasma rifel, but used corectly it can do almost anything, and fasing an oponent as ignorant as u they should mak it whith a squad of 4 as u probably woudent target them( as u said they are pathetic, most players are foold by this and dont bother taking them down).
Kroot bad assulters???? now thats an insult, i mean for low points cost u get a infiltrating unit that , again no one will target caus ther so weak and usles:), shots 20 s4 ap 5 shots and can easely take down any singel carecter and smaller squads in assult the shaper is a slaughterer for his points costs, wen i play now days its a bit harder as my kroots is one of my more respected units ( my oponents have learned to fear them greatly) and thend to take more shoting hits than my other units:) but thats ok as with a 4+ cover in woods they usaly makes it.... the seeker misiles i dislike of the simpel reason ...... the prise, i dont think they are prisey but allways takes a few just in case..... evrything has its plase in each phase, u cant think eew that model suck compared to this in "my" army list, u must open up and let all things work with eachother ( dosent spells like that right???) then ewrything is a leathal weapon.

Dont judge teams fore its individual models....... evry team exept caos:)

[BrianGeneral]

And therein lies the problem. Any halfway decent 40k player can use terrain to negate the long range of the Tau.

Broadside's Smart Missile System can handle this,if it's not night fighting.

Refer to another post of mine:

I think the mystery race will be Tau or Eldar------in a few aspect.

Chaos will be countered by Space Marines,but how about Orkz?
Orkz-CCers.
Tau/Eldar-Shootas.

Also,if you had refered to Eye of Terror's Campaign,you can see that Chaos and Orkz are refered as "Force of Disorder".I think Relic staff won't let SM fight against 3 evil races?
Tau/Eldar:Force of Order(Actually I don't know why).

Eisenhorn:what's the stat of Rail Rifle for Pathfinders?How much point?

[Eisenhorn]

Duno if im allowed to write profiles on the forum, but here goes:) its a 10pts gun whith a opitional upgrade (this is defenetly not nessesery) for i think 7 points wich makes them able to target separate targets ( AKA:target lock on ). they have a s6 ap3 or 2 not sure... dont hawe the WD by my side right now but ewry thing else i think is corect.
u may have 3 RR in a sq. of pf.

o yea almost forgot, they caus pinning to, and if, only if u chose to upgrade them (17pts ouch) they get the rule "gets hot" as per plasma weaponery....

[H.B.M.C.]

The man who said this is no more than a fool i say.... i usaly go fore 50/50 vith rifels and carbines in reg squads making almost ewry enemy within 18" be forced to pining test

Mate you've got no clue. I'm no Tau player, but when the experienced Tau players who are scoring well at official tournaments talk, I listen. Perhaps you should to.

Go to www.dakkadakka.com, and seek out a man who goes by the name of JTS. Whatever he says about Tau is the truth, as I've seen no better Tau commander than him.

Kroot bad assulters???? now thats an insult, i mean for low points cost u get a infiltrating unit that , again no one will target caus ther so weak and usles:), shots 20 s4 ap 5 shots and can easely take down any singel carecter and smaller squads in assult the shaper is a slaughterer for his points costs, wen i play now days its a bit harder as my kroots is one of my more respected units ( my oponents have learned to fear them greatly) and thend to take more shoting hits than my other units:) but thats ok as with a 4+ cover in woods they usaly makes it

As I said, they make better shooters than assaulters. I've wiped out entire 20 man units of Kroot using a single Space Marine Chaplain on more than one occasion. I am not an excellent player, so I know it wasn't my "mad skillz" winning the day, and I know Chaplains aren't very good compared to other HTH characters, so it HAD to be the fault of the Kroot's Suck-i-ness Factor.

Dont judge teams fore its individual models....... evry team exept caos:)

The Tau are the most dependant army in the game. No other army requires more coordination to win than they do, which is why you need experience and smarts to play them, and why most new players give up with Tau. They have a bad list, full of half-good units, a few winners, and some real stinkers.

BYE

[Cortanus]

As I said, they make better shooters than assaulters. I've wiped out entire 20 man units of Kroot using a single Space Marine Chaplain on more than one occasion. I am not an excellent player, so I know it wasn't my "mad skillz" winning the day, and I know Chaplains aren't very good compared to other HTH characters, so it HAD to be the fault of the Kroot's Suck-i-ness Factor.dant army in the game. No other army requires more coordination to win


This is where your agument falls apart. Chaplain are basically Space Marine Commanders built for close combat. They come standard with a power weapon and the equivalent of an Iron Halo. Add terminator honours and another close combat weapon, and you have 5 attacks, 6 when you charge in, at WS5. Although he won't last long against, say, an nicely tooled Chaos Lord, a Chaplain is, aside from a Force Commander, the best Close Combat character for the Space Marines. And I have beaten many Tau units with my Salamander Chaplain (I4) many times. By himself. Not to mention whole units of gaunts, and the occasional Chaos or regular space marine squad.

[No Surrender]

Kroot don't suck, most people don't know how to use them well.