So, what's the Orcs story?

[Khelben]

I'm not very familiar with the 40k universe and there is one thing that I don't understand. How did the greenskinz ever manage to evolve into a "high tech" (or at least high tech in comparison to us since they do utilize interstellar travel on a regular basis...) space race, spreading over most of the known galaxy?

My impression of the orcs is that they are a bunch of retarded brutes, about as intelligent as your average ape... so what happened, did Gork and Mork lend them a hand or have I underestimated the capacity of the Orcish mind?

And one second question, do the orcs have any psykers? In fantasy battle they do master the Waaaagh magic...

[Oblivion]

Originally there was a master ork race known as the Brainboyz, they created all orks to be slaves underneath them. They also programmed all the orks knowledge into their dna so a mekaniac (mechanic) knows how engines work from birth. These brainboyz died out due to some plague, millions of years ago, although there is speculation one survived, the ork known as Orkimedes (armageddon 3 campaign)

They have conquered the galaxy because the spread through spores :spin: and reproduce like rabbits.

[theBlind]

And they use Space Hulks (giant junk ships drifting through warpspace, occasionally appearing back in normalspace) as transports. They can operate machines they don´t understand because they are a subconsciously (sp?) psychic race - if they think something should work the way they operate it, it usually does.

[vic 1]

this is correct and the more ork's the stronger the efect this is how thay manage space flight

[[Death_Jester]]

Yea, isnt it that enough orks think it'll work, it'll work? like how all orks "know" red buggies go faster...hence, they do, even if a buggy thats exactly the same (impossible for orks, yes i know, but this is just an example) will go slower than the red one...

[MIKE.MERCILESS]

I don't think the whole "I think it works, therefore it does" idea is quite right.

While they are subconsiously psychic on a low level, this in turn only manifests itself on a low level- i.e if they believe this big old axe is tough enough to go through Power Armour, then it will actually do so!

However, their technology, while crude, does indeed work. Because the Mekboys subsconsiously understand incredably advanced mechanics, they can create all manour of Gargants/ Spaceships/ ZZap guns. Vehicles salvaged/ looted from Imperial wrecks are notoriously unreliable, because they have either enlaved humans building them, where they would often be sabotaged; or simply the result of trying to integrate sophisticated Imperial technoloy with the Orkish 'Slap it on and blowtorch it' way of fixing things. If they really could "believe" their machinary to work, then the Imperium would have a REAL nightmare on their hands!

[HobbyGuy]

^^ its a combination of all described.
in the ork codex it explains that orks have inate knowledge of weapons and mechanics and tactics. at the consicous level, however, a lot of it depends on superstition. for instance, orks believe that anything painted red will work better or go faster. even if by coincidence that a red painted trukk goes faster than an identical looking (keyword: looking) trukk that is not painted red. the orks will perceive it as the red paint making it go faster not becuase it had a v8 supercharged engine or similar advantage. that in mind, their stupidity makes them genius.

[-_Phoenix_-]

I remember reading an article written from an imperium POV. In it technopriests had an example of a shoota that simply shouldn't (and indeed couldn't) work but when placed in an orks hands operated perfectly, becasue the ork believed it should work.

IIRC Orks are just another race created by the Slann/Old ones to fight the C'tan.

[Ordinary_Story]

IIRC Orks are just another race created by the Slann/Old ones to fight the C'tan.

True if I remember correctly the reason for this is because orks have no fear of death. This comes in handy when fighting C'tan incarnation of Death (I forget what his exact name is).

[H.B.M.C.]

The Krork (otherwise known as Orks), were created alongside the Eldar by the Old Ones to fight against the C'Tan.

Ork DNA contains genetic memory so they are born with the knowledge to do things like build stuff, fix stuff, operate on other Orks (usually without much success).

Orks reproduce asexually, like fungus with spores. Orks are therefore very hard to get rid of once they land, as even if you kill all of them the spores can go on living for a while and soon they'll be popping up out of anywhere, using any available materials to build weapons, and charge into war.

Orks do not fear death, because The Nightbringer, essentially "death", never got to the Orks before he was forced into hiding on the 'Cron Tomb Worlds (whereas The Nightbringer got to us, the Eldar and many many other races).

Ork technology is structually unsound. A lot of the time it bearly works or does not work at all. It works for Orks because the Orks are too stupid to realise that is shouldn't and they believe that it should work. The Ork Codex lists an example of an Ork handgun not actually being able to fire. The mechanisms inside mean that pulling the trigger does not actually cause the gun to fire. In the hands of an Ork though, the weapon works fine because the Ork thinks is should.

See, all Orks are inherently psychic on a small level. They have a "brood mentality", that grows stronger the more Orks are around. Think of it like static electricity. Orks affect their own creations with this psychic power, so Ork things work because an Ork thinks it will, and their low level psychic powers make it work.

Orks love fighting and will fight anyone, even them selves, on a regular basis. They get bigger and darker as they age, and the biggest ones are in charge!!

Their monatary system is based upon "teef" ie. they use their teeth as currency. Some Ork "Klanz" grow teeth faster, such as the Bad Moons, so they are the richer Orks with better equipment. Some Klanz are more warlike (Goffs), some love speed (Evil Sunz), some like stealing stuff, salvaging stuff and building weird weapons (Death Skullz), some like acting like humans, using "kamoflage", "taktics" and trading with "'oomies" (Blood Axes). Some Orks are very tradishional, and shun a lot of technology for standard honourable fighting (Snake Bites).

All Orks love moving fast, so their vehicles are usually very fast. They believe red makes their vehicles go faster, and like their "teknologee", their psychic powers interact with the vehicles that are painted red, actually making them go faster.

Particulary unhinged Orks who love speed join "Kults of Speed". Others go away from normal Ork life altogether, becoming Feral Orks.

Orks have their own crude ships, but a lot of the time they steal stuff and drift around on Hulks, moving from planet to planet looking for stuff to kill.

And that's all I can think of.

BYE

[BoBo The Bear]

I'm not very familiar with the 40k universe and there is one thing that I don't understand. How did the greenskinz ever manage to evolve into a "high tech" (or at least high tech in comparison to us since they do utilize interstellar travel on a regular basis...) space race, spreading over most of the known galaxy?

As stated the orks doesnt really evolve.... they are "borned" with knowledge...
Usually only of how to fight but in some examples (mekboyz) they have a talent for repairing and stealing technology...

The most common way for an ork waaagh! (war campain.. sort of...) to get to another planet is by building "telliportas" to teleport orks onto chunks of space ship junk in space close by... hoping for an air pocket... they will then fix it from the inside and out, and when they are done they have a "space 'ulk" wich they can put to speed towards a new planet... where they usually will crash the 'ulk and take over the planet... and so on....

As for stating that orks are dumb... well not really... they just got enough intelligence to fight,spread and drink fungus beer... sort of.. :)

[Khelben]

I kind of assumed that the Orks I know from fantasy battle had somehow gained all these abilities... but if I have understood things correctly the Orks in 40k are in no way related to the fantasy battle orks then?

[BoBo The Bear]

Acording to Games workshop I think the 2 "universes" are compleatly different, and any resemblance are a coincidence... :)

But yea... the Orcs (fantasy) and the Orks (40k) have a lot or things in common...
way of life, and religion mostly... but then again.... the orc way of life is all they got... :)

[HobbyGuy]

WH40k is just a futuristic spin off from Warhammer the fantasy game. it started out as Rouge Trader but after they started to put in all these races and armies from fantasy they just decided to call it Warhammer: 40,000. think about it... how many 40k races have a fantasy counter part? answer: all of them with the exception of the tau and nids.

[Captain Zog]

Don't forget the old Ork Wierdboyz with the foot shaped 'Da Krunch' template, those were some great models, like the one with two Ork minderz aiming a wierdboy at his next target.

Rule for them used to be, the more fighting on the tabletop, the more power cards they got, pretty similar to fantasy in terms of spells and 'eadbang! effects

[Tigurius]

The Imperium has really found no evidence that the Orks are "dumber" than an average human. They are just...different in their lifestlye. Sure, they might not be able to write like we do, or make technology as neat as ours. But who needs to? If it works just the same, it will do. :cowboy:

[IWAssassin]

Its not so much that they believe a Shoota will work as they KNOW it will. There's a difference. Because of their low level psychic power, they cant overtly decide "Tha Green Onez Go Fasta" and have them go faster. There's even some fluff out there that many Ork shops have so many holes in them that they would be incapable of keeping atmosphere inside the ship, but because orks KNOW that ships will protect them from the dangers of space, the combined psychic power of all the orks onboard generate a field that keeps the atmosphere inside the ship.

Its the standard cartoon "If you dont look down you wont fall" - for Orks its very much like that. They cant just BELIEVE it works, or WISH it to works, its so subconscious they have to KNOW it works for it to work.

Of course that's not to say that their technology ISNT very advanced. They ARE capable of building force fields that most of the time would work anyway, as well as enormous vehicles on scale with a Battle Titan [the most technologically advanced constructs known to man]. Again chances are those would work without the belief, unless the construction was particularly shoddy even for an Ork. Remember Orks couldnt KNOW something works without seeing that time after time some DID work. At one point in time a Cult of MekBoyz probably built a bunch of Buggies with bigger engines and painted all of them red. It became known that Red Onez Go Fasta, and became so ingrained into the Ork Subconscious that you could remove the big engine and it would STILL go Fasta.

[Richtofen]

Orks(40k) and Orcs(WFB) are completely different races.
Orks are asexual and reproduce by spores and as said, if they think something works, it does. They were also created by the first great lifeforms (known as the old ones but completely different to the WFB old ones).
Orcs are big green dudes, as far as I remember, there are female Orcs. Orcs just popped up over night in the Old World while the Old Ones were reshaping the world. They sent their Lizardmen legions after the Orcs but the Orcs could not be fully destroyed...then the Polar gates went stupid.

[TinBane]

You have to remember that although ork teknology is very advanced, and works often when it shouldn't, it doesn't work all the time. Force fields, zzap guns, looted vehicles and most ork weapons function only intermittently, however even when they don't, the still make noise and look cool, so the orks think they work.

For instance an ork shoota shoots, but often it isn't accurate at all, just firing off randomly.

[BrotherGlacius]

***** Just realize that the ork background has gone thru many changes. I believe the current one is distancing itself from the "they think it works so it does" mentality. I haven't seen that theory supported in any recent fluff from GW. What GW is now saying is that the the Brainboyz, seeing thier own extinction, deciced to place knowledge in the lesser orks on a genetic level. So basically, the orks simply know how to do things..they don't have it learn it.

The latent psychic abilities are more in line with the gathering of orcs. Once a Waagh starts..it draws more and more orks to its banner basically, even across planets. Thus, the orks simply start doing things to support the waagh. for instance, once a waagh has covered a whole planet so that all orks there are united...they will start building ships to expand it.

Thats not to say they don't have individual thoughts or choices...they do...but they are all geared towards supporting warfare in one way or another. So orks do create technology..in fact..they are better suited for survival than humans are. If a planet with no technology was infested with ork spores...you'd soon have a growing colony that farmed, mined, and everything else needed to give them the level of technology of the 42nd century. It wouldn't be pretty..but eventually it would work.

***** Brother G.

[dacarab]

I do seem to remember reading many moons ago that WFB was set on a planet within the 40k universe - I remember there being a table for chaos attributes or some such for demons, which included high tech weaponry. If I remember rightly, Chaos was introduced to the planet when the Slann's Warpgate at the North pole exploded, creating loads of warpstone and other nasty stuff.

This was in the mid / late eighties though, so it sounds like it's all changed.

[DarthFelth]

yeah i heard that, alot of people say its rather dodgy, could be, but you could sau if the old ones were the same that the warhammer world was like a test planet that went wrong.

[ionfish]

Warhammer and 40K used to be a lot closer than they are now; the current separation is the result of a change in design team, and the direction that team decided to go with the fluff. Back when Rick Priestley thought them both up, they were essentially the fantasy and SF sides of the same coin.

[DarthFelth]

well i give up with GW they change their minds every 5 seconds on the fluff of anything, prolly in the time i wrote this message the emperor's wounds got changed and he was only given a slap and hes fine stomping around the mperium ;) :p

[Mraughh]

FLUFF WAR!! :)
Dontcha just love it lol.

[Vijil]

I think part of the problem was that the dedicated fantasy players couldnt stomach the idea of the Fantasy world being nothing more than a small part of the 40k universe. Although it can technically be considered to be the case, it simply isnt mentioned any more.

I had heard that the fantasy world is in fact located somewhere deep within the eye of terror, which allows for its mucked up physics (magic), and means that outside forces from the 40k world will not be able to interact with it.

Imagine that, a campaign in which the eye of terror was breached (somehow) and the 40k war went planetside, so the fantasy players end up pitching their supernatural powers against the tech of the 40k players...

nah. Might be fun to mod the rules a bit to make it work for a small local campaign though.

[NjalStormcall]

Yes, I believe that Gav originally had imagined that the Warhammer Fantasy world was a special world defended by the Old Slann shields in the heart of the Eye of Terror. Its seperated by these invincible shields from the 40k universe, but is within it.

[ComanderSeagoon]

There are rules for old weapons and armour, in the 2nd eddition rule book. But these are New old weapons, like a crossbow made today with todays materials ect, so i would guess that Warhammer F weapons would be darn useless.

[Canadian_F_H]

in the "40k fluff bible" they describe that the warhammer world is in side of a warpstorm. in the 40k galaxy. oddly enough i've heard rumors that Sigmar (the founder of the human empire in WHFB, was a primarch. but that would mean there is a huge time distortion around the WH world or that the warp storms popped up due to slaneesh not the original fall of the old ones.

[merf]

Don't forget the old Ork Wierdboyz with the foot shaped 'Da Krunch' template, those were some great models, like the one with two Ork minderz aiming a wierdboy at his next target.

Rule for them used to be, the more fighting on the tabletop, the more power cards they got, pretty similar to fantasy in terms of spells and 'eadbang! effects


HEE HEE oh those were the days
Those rules were quality when you had to have the minders to "fire" the weirdboy, I loved using weirdboys. Im glad they have brought them back into 40K with the Feral Orks.
THOSE SPACE MARINES CAN MEET A HORRIBLE SQUISHY DEATH YET AGAIN :D

[ShadeDancer]

Orks have a far more simplar view of life than Humans. They aren't stupid they just approach problems in an entirely different way. For example, if a human wanted to open a locked door they might look for a switch or key. An ork would just kick it down. Its a different way of doing things but its just as sucessful.
According to some of the fluff I have read, the brain boyz aren't all dead. They needed to eat a special kind of fungus to unlock their latent genius though, and these were wiped out somehow (I think bigger greenskins ate them all in an attempt to get as smart as their leaders). Without this fungus, all thats left of the brain boyz are the incredibly stupid snotlings (but I haven't seen any mention of these in 3rd edition fluff).

[NjalStormcall]

What judges intelligence anyways? Everybody knows that of all the non-Chaos races, the most likely race in the 40k universe to survive are the Orks. Like a great Inquisitor said, "Only the insanity have the strength to prosper. Only those who prosper can judge what is truly sane."

[ShadeDancer]

What judges intelligence anyways? Everybody knows that of all the non-Chaos races, the most likely race in the 40k universe to survive are the Orks. Like a great Inquisitor said, "Only the insanity have the strength to prosper. Only those who prosper can judge what is truly sane."
I agree. Intelligence is a human concept and not really applicable to any other species, fictional or otherwise.

[mpjesse363]

to clarify the question about whfb and wh40k

in the old gw fluff (im not up on the new because every time i get up on fluff it changes ie. the stunts ) the world of whfb is closed off by a warp storm in the early stages of the human exodus from terra pre hourous heresy. of the races that are present in this world the only native ones are the skaven and the lizardmen although it is speculated that the skaven may be an offshoot of the spacefaring race of pirates known only to fluff as the hrud the lizard men were first spawned by the old ones to shape the worlds that the old ones had captured or held from the c"tan ie the night bringer and the deciever.

but let me digress for a moment the whfb world was for some reason deemed of stratigic importance by both the old ones and the gods of chaos and there the deciding and apocoliptic battle between the two insued causeing only the demise of the old ones....or did it

of the race of men .
being a world that was still in its primevil stages men were not united to fight aganst the evil in the world and this is where the 40 k world ties in sigmar heldenhammer the icon of whfb was one of the lost primarchs and thus not being reached by the emperor while gathering his leigons was oblivious to this fact which explanes why he was the most powerfull human being and able to unite human tribes and form the empire because of course he was a space marine primarch and dident even know it

orcs and gobbos i dont believe much is said about the origin of theese vile but extreamly entertaning and fun to play beings in whfb but my speculation is this that they formed a colony like the one formed as the basis for the long gone game gorkamorka and were simply cut off from the main waaaag for so long that they indeed digressed to the current state of affairs adopting magic like wierd boyz in 40 k and the basic battle patterns of the world that they now occupied which suited there barbaric nature entirely

do not forget that there are many worls withinn the imperium of man that are still in the pre historic or medevial stages of developement much like the whfb world

now a little history of 40 k races

men or the imperium

terra or earth as we know it was thrown into turmoil and the emperor united all men (the emperor was born in present day turkey btw) i wont go into his history because it would occupy the topic for far too long
he then set about gathering the planets that had been occupied by humans during the time of strife into the imperium the enemys of the empire were many and so the emperor genetically engeneered zygoats to be of super human size stature and intillect giveing them specific traits that would define the chapters that they would father a freak warp storm occours and all primarchs are scattered to diffrent planets to be gatherd or lost by the emperor later on

of the eldar
there homeworld being destroyed theese xenos live on craft worlds and are a very ancient race who were in space melinnia before man even crawled out of the primordial ooze they were created by the old ones along with the orcs to combat the ctan and there children the necrontyr
somewhere along the line the bedroom habits of this lavish and extreamly randy but not very fertile race caused the chaos god nurgle to awaken(again this ties the worlds of whfb and 40k togeather because all chaos gods are the same in both) this caused a rift in the eldar who formed two factions the eldar of craftworlds and the dark eldar who became piratical and insane in there search for the way to keep she who thirsts(nurgle) at bay

of the orks

orcs were created to be the foot sloggers of the old ones its true brain boys were the early and most advanced of the orks and it is rumored that one orkimedes has survived but judgeing by ork growth patterns he should be huge and dark he is of course an ork it is specuated that if the orks were united for any length of time that they would own the galaxy in a matter of years but due to infighting this would never happen for any length of time

ok this is where im gonna stop head hurt from many think

if anyone wants to wrap up the other races go ahead i think i hit the main ones and i dont want to get into the complecated fluff about the tyrinids the tau and the long lost stunts
thanks

jesse :matrix:

[NightBringer]

yup yup exactly... the orks, like the eldar were spawned by the old ones during their losing battle against the C'Tan and the necrontyr, and after the war, they were left to their own devices and spread throughout the galaxy

oh and a correction... the necrontyr weren't the C'Tans children they were their slaves after they tricked the necrontyr into giving up their flesh to become the necrons as we know them....

and the orks were originally named the krork :twisted:

[Talos]

i heard that orks have the biggest empire.Can u guys see my sig pic because i cant see but some people say thay can.

[NightBringer]

its not really an empire as such... they are jsut the most widespread (even moreso than the million worlds stolen by the humans

[Cmdr_Adeon]

Actually, the Fall of the Eldar awoke the god Slannesh (spelt wrong) not Nurgle.

Also, I was under the impression that the brain boyz were the old ones, not a sub-species of ork.

[mpjesse363]

your right cmdr adeon it was slannesh i was pretty tired when i wrote thatlast night i left out the part about the tau being the old ones replacement for the eldar though

[Paranoia833]

Actually, the Fall of the Eldar awoke the god Slannesh (spelt wrong) not Nurgle.

Also, I was under the impression that the brain boyz were the old ones, not a sub-species of ork.

Correct on both counts. The Brain-boyz were ORIGANALLY hyper-intelligent snotlings, but GW ret-conned that particular bit off fluff out in second edition due to it being rediculously lame (well third edition really, but the second edition never mentioned it).

[Kackarot]

on the relation of wh40k to fantasy the earlier posts were right it is situated in the eye of terror in the 40k universe. Sigmar was/is the missing primarch sent there when the chaos gods scattered them. The Fantasy world is accesable only to deamons via the polar gates. And the information Archaon found out as a young templar from the Celestine Book of Divination about the falseness of sihmar as a god is based on him being the missing primarch. This points towards this fluff still existing and not just from the early incarnations of the game.
p.s this is my first post

[mpjesse363]

welcome kackarot
im glad to see that the fluff hasent changed as much as i thought it did

well except for the squats :cranky:

[Cmdr_Adeon]

I'm wondering how Sigmar could be a missing Primarch since it states elsewhere that all 20 were found. There are three possibilities. You ignore the statement that all 20 were found, and the legion based on Sigmar's geneseed is one of the two where all the information (except for the fact that they existed) was repressed. The second option is that he is the 21st Primarch who's very existence has been completely repressed. The third option is that he was found and he abandoned the world of Warhammer which seems odd as all of the others used the world they landed on as a base for their legion.

Hold on, I just looked at the information in the back of the SM codex and it says that the Primarchs were supposedly 20 in number which lends support to the idea that some weren't found and knowledge of them was suppressed which of course begs the question of why legions weren't made based on their geneseed since the legions were founded before the primarchs were found.

[orkdom]

The Ork expansion into space from their home world is perhaps the greatest and most significant accident in Ork history :spin: . Ork expansion occurred sporadically, giving a completely random pattern of settlement throughout the galaxy. In other words, an Ork domain or a migrating tribe could turn up anywhere.

[Kackarot]

forgive me if im wrong but i thought that 20 primarchs were created and 2 were lost the identity of the outher one alludes me but the thirteenth is sigmar. And so 11 founding chapters were created

Dark angels - lion el jhonson
emperors children - Fulgrim
iron warriors - Pertrubo
white scars - Jaggahiti khan
space wolves - Leman Russ
imperial fists - Rogal Dorn
night lords - night haunter
blood angels - Sanguinus
iron hands - Mannus Ferrus
world eaters - Angron
ultramarines - Roubouto guiliman
death guard - Mortion
thousand sons - Magnus
luner wolves - Horus
word bearers - lorgar
salamanders - Vulcan
raven guard - Corax
alpha legion - Alpharius

Sorry about spellings of primarchs it is from memory
p.s thanks for the welcoming to the forums

[orkdom]

yes there were 20 originally but in the sm codex 2 have been "expunged from all imperial records"

[Talos]

does anybody know which 2 where expunged form the records

[Cmdr_Adeon]

Well, so far as I know it isn't actually set in stone anywhere (but I didn't play rogue trader so I suppose it could be there). See the fluff from 2nd ed states that all of the Primarchs were found while the 3rd ed fluff implies it. Now the list at the back of codex SM lists 20 founding legions, 2 of which have been expunged. These are records of legions, which happen to include the name of their primarch, not records of the primarchs. So we've got to consider why the record was expunged as well as the identity of the Primarchs.

Lets assume that one of the missing legions was based on Sigmar's geneseed and they never located him. The possible reason then for expunging the record was that the Emporer wanted to cover up the fact that he never found Sigmar. This seems odd because if you want to hide the fact that you lost a few primarchs why not just remove the records of their legions entirely, why just suppress knowledge of their details but keep their existence known? I'm assuming that in either case you would destroy any physical evidence (such as the marines themselves). It would make more sense to just tell everyone that there were only 18 primarchs.

What I think happened was this. The primarchs were created numbering 21 or more. During the Great Crusade 20 primarchs were recovered and put in charge of some of the legions. After the Great Crusade the legions bearing geneseed of the missing primarchs were dealt with (either disbanded, sent off somewhere or purged) and the very knowledge of their existence was suppressed, this left 20 legions with 20 primarchs. Sometime after the Horus Heresy 2 legions had the knowlede of evrything except the fact that they existed supressed.

I agree its unprovable, but it accounts for the fluff that says all 20 primarchs were found while still allowing Sigmar to be one

[Bryn]

Just gessing but mabby they weren't found and so they were expunged or they could of been corupted and killed by the emperor or they could of died before they took controle of the chapters.

[Cmdr_Adeon]

Right, but that doesn't explain why the legions themselves were expunged. It doesn't make sense, if you don't find a primarch (or he is bad) you either keep the legion and say that you couldn't find their primarch (or something along those names). If you are going to destroy the legion to hide the fact that you couldn't find the primarch, you make it appear as if they never existed, you don't just hide their name.

[Kackarot]

im sorry Adeon but i dont agree with you only 18 chapters (not includeing custodies) were actually created because the outher two were destoyed after the two primarchs were not found. allthough a gene seed stock was kept. ONLY 20 primarchs were created and two were lost. I know one is DEFINATELY sigmar. As i questioned this at gw hq and it was confirmed
these are the 18 known primarchs with there legons

Dark angels - lion el jhonson
emperors children - Fulgrim
iron warriors - Pertrubo
white scars - Jaggahiti khan
space wolves - Leman Russ
imperial fists - Rogal Dorn
night lords - night haunter
blood angels - Sanguinus
iron hands - Mannus Ferrus
world eaters - Angron
ultramarines - Roubouto guiliman
death guard - Mortion
thousand sons - Magnus
luner wolves - Horus
word bearers - lorgar
salamanders - Vulcan
raven guard - Corax
alpha legion - Alpharius
Missing
Missing
p.s think about the relation of the old world to 40k in this manner and it all fits into place eg the fall of the old ones and the birth of slannesh.

[NightBringer]

how did the story of the orks turn into the founding of the 18(20) (SUCKY)sm legions???


oh and about slannesh.. i agree it does all link in together if u read it throughly enough.

[Kackarot]

dunno i'll shut up now just like talking about it tis all.

[Cmdr_Adeon]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Kackarot]

ok

[NightBringer]

good good... ok right, now does ne1 know where the ork gods gork and mork came from? or are they just the C'tan playing with gazkulls mind?

[Kackarot]

seing as i got the idea the old ones created the orks at the same time as the eldar to fight the necrons and c'tan i'm not sure. Hmmmm could the old ones create gods. Anouther idea is that they are a bit like the chaos gods in the fact that they are formed out off the collective psyce and emotions of the orks. Like the chaos gods are formed out of the anger/bloodlust/pleasure/greed/plotting and outher emotions of outher races in the universe predominently humans. xcept obiously just ork's. But watever they are worshipped by the orc's im wfb as well. (which coincedentialy points towards what i said about the releationship bettween wh40k and whfb) not that i havn't dropped it yet. No seriously i have im just saying

[NightBringer]

ummm, your slightly wrong there about the chaos gods... only slannesh was created by the eldar... the old ones/c'tan created the other three

[orkdom]

firstly, ghazghkull wasn't the first ork to talk about gork and mork. those gods have been a staple of ork society since a damn long time b4 that git ever existed. also, orks are HATED by the chaos gods very deeply, because orks are known to be basically immune to any sort corruption or mutation or whatever else they come up with(khorne just happens to be lucky w/ the orks love of combat and all).

[Cmdr_Adeon]

I don't think that Gork and Mork exist as actual entities. I suspect that they are probably a residual racial memory of the old ones (who would have been like gods to the orks). Although they could be sort of a projection of the psyche of all the Orks so when an Ork thinks they are talking to him, he is actually 'hearing' the collective desires of all the Orks around him, he is somewhat in tune to them.

[NightBringer]

i didn't say gazkull was the first to mention them... i jsut said that the deviever (c'tan) is playing with his head coz he has visions that he says he gets from the gods...

but yeah i think it could be the orks memory of the old oes coz they created them in the first place.

[Kackarot]

i never thought that all 4 chaos gods were created by the eldar. I know it was only slanesh. What im saying is that the chaos gods get there power from the negitive feelings and emotions emmited by the mortal races in the real universe. I thought that maybe gork and mork got there power from the emotions of the orks predominently bloodlust but some underhand cunning and plotting. Adeons theroy sounds good though
(ps i never in any way ment to relate gork and mork to the chaos gods)

[orkdom]

adeon's idea about collective desire's of surrounding orks seems very probable. that is where the ork psykers allegedely draw their powers from so it makes perfect sense.

[NightBringer]

ahhh ok... sorry about that, yeah hat is a good point

ok i know this is off topic, but what is the background of all the eldar gods? seeing as they were created by the old ones aswell

[orkdom]

should start a new forum for that one...
"so, what's the eldar story?"

[NightBringer]

lol
nah, i've already tried starting one, but it got locked after about 4 posts lol

[orkdom]

ya i saw that, soulblighter did that one. i was gonna reply but it was locked.

[mpjesse363]

the thing about gork and mork is this gork is the god of battle and mork is the god of cunning being slightly smaller than gork ie how some ork gargants are either small or large because they ar patterned after the two gods

i dont believe that the history of those gods is discussed much in the fluff but imo they are entities seperate from the chaos gods perhaps tow surviveing old ones it is well known that no chaos god likes orks seeing that orks have for the most part only instinctual reactions to situations and have no real strife to an ork you arent an enemy you are just something to kill he dosent hate you just wants to kill you

they do possess sort of a collective conciousness though and this is embodied in the waaaag and the use of waaag magic but it is little more than an instinctual programmed habit not unlike how sharks frenzy or how birds flock

im not saying that they are stupid or not capable of thought because they most certinally are but it seems that they act on instinct more than planning there aggressive nature and power structure are why they kill and war they just like to fight and they see humans as soft and inferior to the ork race

but let me get back to gork and mork imo the theory that they are surviveing old ones is sound but i havent found any fluff that said for certain

[Dimension]

my take is this:

the chaos gods khorne, tzeentch and nurgle were all three created when the cumulated emotions from humans (and possibly eldar) became so dense within the warp that they became conscious (in the same order as listed). slaanesh was created when the eldar with their hedonistic tendencies began to divulge themselves into sensual excess. since humans have a short lifespan and do not have as extreme emotions as eldar, they probably did not contribute a lot to the birth of slaanesh.

khaine is a god of altruistic violence. a protector, but a murderer at the same time, signifying the darker bloodlust of the eldar, especially exarchs. as a sidenote, this is why khorne did not allow slaanesh to devour khaine but fought him until exhaustion of both, and khaine managed to break free and broke his body into shards for neither gods to be found ever again (those shards entered eldar bodies and thus created the avatars).

all of those entities have in common that they are embodiments of emotions. ork emotions are maybe different from those of eldar and humans, so instead of cumulating with their emotions and further strengthening khorne (war) and tzeentch (cunning), ork emotions mingled only amongst themselves, finally creating gork and mork.

[Maximus Kane]

I have just read everything in the above posts......

I think my head is going to melt.I never knew they put so much detail in the TT game. I knew there was alot but.... :gonemad:

I would actual go and buy a few codex but i dont think it would help as they seem to love to change the goal posts.

Very impressive tho.

[mpjesse363]

lol its ok maximus i felt the same way when i started the tt but you would be surprised how fast it starts makeing sence and fitting togeather when you get into it and start reading fluff sides this is only the fluff on one aspect of the whole game there is a whole lot more almost an endless amount for different armies and races and planets etc and i think the emotions thing is a good theory and seems to fit better than my old ones theroy because the orcs tend to run alot of emotion through a waaaaaag maybe the cumulitive waaaaaag emotions created theese two gods

[Militarized]

I don't think the whole "I think it works, therefore it does" idea is quite right.

While they are subconsiously psychic on a low level, this in turn only manifests itself on a low level- i.e if they believe this big old axe is tough enough to go through Power Armour, then it will actually do so!

However, their technology, while crude, does indeed work. Because the Mekboys subsconsiously understand incredably advanced mechanics, they can create all manour of Gargants/ Spaceships/ ZZap guns. Vehicles salvaged/ looted from Imperial wrecks are notoriously unreliable, because they have either enlaved humans building them, where they would often be sabotaged; or simply the result of trying to integrate sophisticated Imperial technoloy with the Orkish 'Slap it on and blowtorch it' way of fixing things. If they really could "believe" their machinary to work, then the Imperium would have a REAL nightmare on their hands!

You're taking that to a point far off the subject, he is talking about their technology. In the Ork codex (in the back) there is a story about their technology being studied and it said that when they tried to use one of pistols(slugga) from a downed ork that had been working for the Ork it did not work for the Human.. the weapons do have the ability to work but arn't made properly to do so, the low level of psychic power the orks have make it fully functional I believe... I may be a bit off, just read the codex :p lol

And for how orks got to space.. I think this is this post.. it is said in the new Necron Codex that Orks were one of the psychic races (perhaps along with the Eldar) that were created to destroy the Necrons from an ancient race that died out because of the destruction the Necrons caused to them... think that's what it said anyway. So the instincts for technology simply could have been embedded in them.. I also think that the Mekboy genius you were referring to from Armaggedon is just a sort of super Mekboy

[NjalStormcall]

I always think thought Gork and Mork were real - but of course, being warp entities with so many believers, does it really even matter if they were originally there or not?

[NightBringer]

[QUOTE=Dimension]my take is this:

the chaos gods khorne, tzeentch and nurgle were all three created when the cumulated emotions from humans (and possibly eldar) became so dense within the warp that they became conscious (in the same order as listed).QUOTE]


wrong wrong wrong!!!

FOR THE LAST TIME, SLANNESH WAS CREATED BY THE ELDAR, THE OTHER THREE WERE THE RESULT OF THE WAR BETWEEN THE C'TAN AND THE OLD ONES!!!

and if its true that there is no fluff about where the ork gods came from their excuse is probably simple

orks care not for the past, only the present

[Dimension]

wrong wrong wrong!!!

FOR THE LAST TIME, SLANNESH WAS CREATED BY THE ELDAR

never said anything to the contrary.


THE OTHER THREE WERE THE RESULT OF THE WAR BETWEEN THE C'TAN AND THE OLD ONES!!!

lol, do you (or someone else) care to elaborate and find some supporting proof? that goes against everything i've ever heard or read.

PS: oh, and stop shouting. it only looks silly.

[ShadeDancer]

The war between the C'tan and the Old Ones is what made the creatures in warpspace alot more predatory. Before then it was possible to draw power from the warp with no ill effects. I think its definantly possible that Khorne and Tzeentch were created at this time, if they came into being in a similar way to Slannesh.

Khorne- Constant war covering galaxy, entire races destroyed, death on a massive scale e.t.c.

Tzeentch- The Old Ones had just created psychics and their warp spawned powers were in pretty heavy use.

Can't think of any reason for Nurgle to be around just then though.

All of this seems pretty off topic though as its nothing about orks.

[Paranoia833]

wrong wrong wrong!!!

FOR THE LAST TIME, SLANNESH WAS CREATED BY THE ELDAR, THE OTHER THREE WERE THE RESULT OF THE WAR BETWEEN THE C'TAN AND THE OLD ONES!!!



Umm... no. The war was what caused the original warp entities to become agressive, as the fed off the negative emotions of the various races involved (except the C'tan, who can't affect the warp at all) but the Chaos gods themselves didn't form as seperate entities until various points in history (Khorne formed first pre human civilisation, Tzeentch was formed sometime between the bronze age and the Roman empire, Nurgle was formed in the middle ages, and Slaanesh was formed at the collapse of the Eldar empire, if I recall correctly).

[ShadeDancer]

Umm... no. The war was what caused the original warp entities to become agressive, as the fed off the negative emotions of the various races involved (except the C'tan, who can't affect the warp at all) but the Chaos gods themselves didn't form as seperate entities until various points in history (Khorne formed first pre human civilisation, Tzeentch was formed sometime between the bronze age and the Roman empire, Nurgle was formed in the middle ages, and Slaanesh was formed at the collapse of the Eldar empire, if I recall correctly).
That sounds about right to me. The black death happens and POOF suddenly you get Nurgle. Everything you said just about fits in with what I know about 40k.

[mpjesse363]

the ost interesting part to me though is the stand that different races have on specific gods"note theese entities are or should more likely be classified as warp anomolies rather than gods as they most likely dont have a physical embodiement only etherial

the eldar/elves main god of blood is kaine chaos is khrone and orks is gorkthe humans are polytheistic in a sence as they know that the emperor is not there creator only there guardianand for the most part wo5rship aquilla but as of yet i have found almost no fluff on aquilla

why would there be three gods of battle existing in the warp at once or are they the result of seperate levels of thought between the different races

[ShadeDancer]

the eldar/elves main god of blood is kaine chaos is khrone and orks is gorkthe humans are polytheistic in a sence as they know that the emperor is not there creator only there guardianand for the most part wo5rship aquilla but as of yet i have found almost no fluff on aquilla


You mean the Imperial Eagle? That isn't a god, its just one of the generic symbols of the Imperium.

[mpjesse363]

it is a symbol but in some fluff shrines to aquilla are mentioned and also in some novels

[Ferretarmour]

chances are the orks just go:

Ork 1: Look, its a new plannit!
Ork 2:Let's plunda and burn!
Ork 1:WOOOO

[mpjesse363]

and then they start throwing grots out of the landing craft from 250 feet up to see how high they bounce

[Ferretarmour]

not high?

[ShadeDancer]

Think of it as the ork version of an orbital strike.

[mpjesse363]

depends on if they hit a beakie

or if the grot tried to spoil everyones fun by trying to escape being thrown over board

also it needs to be a relitively fat grot so that if it dosent bounce it gos splut

[Espi0n]

lol

Attack Squig drop.... the possibilities!!

[mpjesse363]

and you have to make the grotz catch the squgs

just imagin 3 grots with pokey sticks running around on a lander going ere squig erre come on squiiiiig

[NightBringer]

u find the proof, read the necron codex. it doesn't blaintantly say the chaos gods, but its talking in turms of the universe at the time and refers to them as warp entities

[NjalStormcall]

(Khorne formed first pre human civilisation, Tzeentch was formed sometime between the bronze age and the Roman empire, Nurgle was formed in the middle ages, and Slaanesh was formed at the collapse of the Eldar empire, if I recall correctly).

Yup. That's pretty much what I remember from the 2nd edition fluff.

Ah, GW's fluff inconsistency? I remember someone telling me that I was spewing bull because I went and recited Rogue Trader fluff. *chuckles*

Anyways, among other images which the Emperor uses is the Thunderbird. In Deathwing, he appears as a living Thunderbird to the dying Two-Heads-Talking. That doesn't mean that cultists and secret orders to symbols won't pop up, though, much like Catholism inspired the cult of worship to Mary.

[ShineDog]

grots used to, in 2nd edition, have an artillery piece that fired pots of angry buzzer squigs (read, ork bees.) if i remember right, sometimes the grots got caught in the mechanism and thrown instead of bEEEEEz

[mpjesse363]

i hope the orks in this game will be as fun to play as they are in tt
there very unpredictable and more apt to fight amongst themselves if they find an enemy too easy plus grots and squigs its like mixing nitro glycerine with gunpowder and then feeding it to a hampster you know its not good for the hampster but chances are if you wait a few minuits something funny will happen

[evildooer]

thats almost as cool as the dwarven gob-lobber :D:D

[Farseer]

The Orks plague the galaxy from end to end with their ceaseless warring and strife. They are a race rooted so deeply in war that peace is utterly incomprehensible to them. They cannot be bargained with or bought save with weapons they will invariably turn against those who tried to bribe them. I pray with all my faith that some great catastrophe will annihilate them but I fear that ultimately it is they, not we, who will rule the galaxy."

- Imperial High Lord Xanthias

[NightBringer]

nice quote farseer... there is also another quote by an eldar farseer that explains why the ork society is far more stable than that of the human and eldar themselves because the humans and eldar ask questions about themselves that the orks would see pointless... or something like that

[Cmdr_Adeon]

My favorite Ork weapon was the shokk attack gun. For those who didn't play 2nd edition tabletop, it opened a tunnel through the warp that was used to transport bases of snotlings (the smallest humanoid orkoid species). When they arrived they appeared around and inside the troops in the area. The best result was that a snotling appeared inside the person causing him to die instantly :).

[Grogsnot]

This is from the Epic Armageddon website and the first section is an excellent synopsis of the Ork race. You will need Acrobat Reader to view it, however.

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/assets/pdf/living/55_orks.pdf

While I'm at it, here is are some other links describing the 40K universe, specifically the Imperium, Space Marines, and Imperial Guard:

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/assets/pdf/living/5_background&sm.pdf

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/assets/pdf/living/52_imperialguard.pdf

Now I'll make a shameless plug promoting Epic Armageddon, which in my opinion is a much more tactical and thought-inducing game than Warhammer 40K. It also allows you to field much larger forces, and Imperial Guard armies that actually involve entire regiments (the way the Guard actually fights).

@ Nightbringer,

Your quote is one of my favorite of all time and what inspired me to play Orks. Nice one. :bandit:

[NightBringer]

i loved the old epic 40k, the only thing for me was that the painting was too fiddly for me (not being the most talented painter... tho thats prob down to not practicing much lol

[ObsceneName]

(Sigmar).
Ok, yo ok Sigmar was probably found but something happened to himf or it is said Sigmar was born on the night of a twin tailed comet appeard(a space ship)and disapeered on the night of a twin tailed comet appeared). So sigmar was most likely a primarch.
(Snotlings)
Snotlings used to be the rulers of orks they ate a special kind of fungus which they feasted on. The orks were theyre slaves a few orks though if we eat this foods we becomes smarts aswell they all the food and starved the snotlings till they de-evolved into the snotlings we know to day food for orks.
(Gork and Mork)
Gork and Mork are the gods of orks they are probably different forms of the chaos gods(as khaine is a aspect of khrone.Gods are made in the warp the more they believe you the stronger power you are in the warp this goes for fantasy fluff how sigmar became a god but hes still part of chaos.)Gork is probably a aspect of Khrone tho. Theyre is also something else theyre are several galaxies completey ruled by Orks and orks being knonw for their constant fighting between each other get bigger, stronger and darker. and some inquistors think that super uber orks live theyre and these are possibly the ork goods gork and mork(but i doubt theyre the gods gork and mork but theyre are probably some orks the size of GARGANTS!).
In some old fluff its said during medieval times upon holy terra is about the time the 3 chaos gods formed nurgle tzeentch and Khrone(Khrone is always the most powerfull chaos except for the moment she who thirsts was born but right after that krhone was most powerfull again)

[Cmdr_Adeon]

Obscene Name: Regarding the Snotlings, as I understand it that part of the fluff was removed in 2nd edition because people thought it was a bit silly. So while it used to be valid fluff, it isn't anymore

[evildooer]

um in the 27th millenium, a probe was sent from earth to try and get to the edge of the universe... 14000 years later and its still not there, and the latest signals have been orkish....... so uber-orkz is a definite possiblility

[ArchonArokN'ah]

w00t.

I knew some of the stuff (but not all), and I now know about 2nd edition Warhammer (or a bit, anyway). In most codexes (or codices), they have an overview of the weapons. They had (have) one in the necrons codex, and they said that one of the main reasons of not knowing much (I'm sure there is a word for this), is the lack of a working model (ie, gauss blaster, gauss gun, gauss cannon etc). In the Dark Eldar codex, they tell you how they work, but they don't give much tactical advice on it (it is an imperial report).

Alot of the Ork weapons are looted, or made to look like human weapons (?), for example, sluggas look like shootas. I haven't read the Ork codex (no need, no-one here plays them), so I wouldn't know, really.

[davidbowie]

i think orks are the coolest "race" in 40k, in that they have fun and dont worry about the consequences, nor do they care about the secret of life etc.

[NjalStormcall]

I do not believe that either Khaine, nor Gork/Mork are aspects of Khorne. Khaine is the one of the last two surviving members of the Eldar heirarchy of gods, and Gork/Mork has always been there, I figure.


um in the 27th millenium, a probe was sent from earth to try and get to the edge of the universe... 14000 years later and its still not there, and the latest signals have been orkish....... so uber-orkz is a definite possiblility

I think the probe has been..requisitioned by the orks and is currently part of a Wartrakk, thus beeping back weird signals.

[peer]

You probably shouldn't resurrect three-week-old threads. At least not with nothing but a silly emoticon.

[GreatSamaman]

I'm stickying this thread so I can lock down subsequent repeat threads, and prevent new people from being lost and repeating the same fluff/tt questions :D

EDIT: Added the thread to table of content post

[NjalStormcall]

For those who ask why there aren't any Chaos Orks, here's why:

From FREEBOTERZ in the Rogue Trader era:

Possessed Weirdboyz. Weirdboyz sometimes become possessed by daemons from the warp. This is a tragedy for both parties, as daemons find it completely impossible to supplant the single-minded Ork personality. The daemon becomes trapped and helpless in the Ork's mind, having realised his mistake and desperate to escape. As for the Weirdboy... he talks to himself a lot.

[FeloniousPunk]

For those who ask why there aren't any Chaos Orks, here's why:

From FREEBOTERZ in the Rogue Trader era:

Possessed Weirdboyz. Weirdboyz sometimes become possessed by daemons from the warp. This is a tragedy for both parties, as daemons find it completely impossible to supplant the single-minded Ork personality. The daemon becomes trapped and helpless in the Ork's mind, having realised his mistake and desperate to escape. As for the Weirdboy... he talks to himself a lot.

LOL, priceless. It's fluff like that that makes me like Orks so much in this game. Must build an Ork army someday.

[NjalStormcall]

POSSESSED WARPHEADZ

Occasionally Weirdboy Warpheadz (who have become addicted to the warp and reckless in the use of their psychic powers) become possessed by daemons. This happens because the Weirdboy acts as a natural conduit for warp energy when he uses his power and a daemon can be sucked into him from the warp together with pure warp energy. However this does not result in daemonic possession of the same kind as would occur in a Human psyker. The Ork personality and soul are much more robust and resistant. Orks are resolute and self-knowing and there is almost no weakness in their minds for a daemon to exploit in order to manipulate the host. The daemon is therefore unable to take control and is effectively imprisoned within the Weirdboy with the result that the Weirdboy becomes greatly enhanced. The cost to the Weirdboy is a form of mania in which he appears to be constantly arguing with himself while his mind disputes with the daemonic prisoner within him. The result is a confused Weirdboy almost ecstatic with power sharing his body with a daemon who is very disenchanted with the situation and prone to outbursts of frustrated wailing. Such possessed Weirdboyz are very rare, and usually keep themselves to themselves or are avoided by other Orks. Like other Warpheadz the Possessed Weirdboy does not need Minderz because he actually enjoys using his powers, but unlike ordinary Warpheadz he has no Madboy followers. This is because the Madboyz, in their intuitively accurate way, recognise the daemonic presence in the Warphead and avoid him. Being less psychically attuned, Gretchin and Snotlings are quite willing to serve the Warphead and soon become used to his endless conversations with himself inexplicable poltergeist activity, and occasional outbursts of daemonic wailing.

&&&

Disputing Ork morals versus Chaos "morals". Must be interesting.

[orkdom]

For those who ask why there aren't any Chaos Orks, here's why:

From FREEBOTERZ in the Rogue Trader era:

Possessed Weirdboyz. Weirdboyz sometimes become possessed by daemons from the warp. This is a tragedy for both parties, as daemons find it completely impossible to supplant the single-minded Ork personality. The daemon becomes trapped and helpless in the Ork's mind, having realised his mistake and desperate to escape. As for the Weirdboy... he talks to himself a lot.

thats excactly it. orks are hated by deamons b/c of their so-called "purity", the simple fact that they're damn near impossible to possess at all, and if your talented enough to do it successfully you're usually screwed...
orks: :nana: deamons: :banghead:

[WarganisM]

think about it... how many 40k races have a fantasy counter part? answer: all of them with the exception of the tau and nids.

You could say the lizardmen are sort of like the Tyranids, just... more organized...

I think people are getting too much into their knowledge of Da Greenskinz and missing the question. As has been said, Orkz have this knowledge of technology "programmed" into their brains at "birth." (they sprout from fungal embryotic sacks... @.<) Many Ork mekaniaks wouldn't be able to explain how the Big Gun they just built works, all they know is that it does.

[orkdom]

For instance an ork shoota shoots, but often it isn't accurate at all, just firing off randomly.

actually, it says in the ork codex that the main idea is to make lots of noise and spray bullets all over the place, in effect to scare the crap outta the target, the goal is not to kill it or hit it even, just to make sure it knows who's boss... :D

[Warcrier]

Alright well im not gonna read 8 pages of posts so im just gonna throw down my 2 cents
The Orks were not created by the Old ones to protect from the C'tan, and neither were the Eldar, the Eldar were alive at same time as the Old ones. Besides the Old ones didnt create anyone to fight against the Ctan, they made fighters to fight Chaos.
The orks dont have a specific origin mythos but what is known about them is the story of the Brainboyz.
The grots and gretchin in the orks army usd to be the brainboyz, they got smart by eating a certain type of mushroom. They got so greedy with the mushroom that they ran out of them and lost their intelligence, so while the Orks were under their command at first, the orks later took them over. That is why Grots are always hanging around the crap of the orks, bcuz theyre looking for more of the mushrooms to make themselves smarter again...