Gods of the Warp

[Kaelorr]

I figured I'd give a basic rundown on the 6 Gods I like most: Khorne, Tzeench, Slannesh, Nurgle, Gork, and Mork. Please elaborate on my descriptions if you can.

The Four Chaos Gods-
The Chaos Gods are the quasi-physical representations of emptions. They are the result of chaotic feelings of psychically attuned races. All play a major part outside the Warp. All information on the Chaos Gods comes from the most recent edition of the Chaos codex.

Khorne- http://www.sargona.ru/games/wh40k/cards/icons/khorne.gif
The Blood God, Khorne sits on a brass throne atop a mountain of skulls in an ocean of blood. Khorne was created in the warp by the raw barbaric anger of humans. His daemons include Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds, and the mighty Bloodthirster. Khorne's preffered legion are the Berzerkers of the World Eaters. His greatest champion is Kharn the Betrayer. He is gennerally the dominant God because he is fueled by the purest emotion: hatred. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. All that matters is that it flows. His rival is Slannesh. Khorne also sees Tzeench as a sissy, using magic where brute force is needed.

Tzeench-The image is a tad large. (http://greywolf.critter.net/images/ahq/runes/tzeench-flame.jpg)
Tzeench is the only chaos god who is not truely evil. In the physical world, Tzeench exists as evolution and the will to change. Tzeench is the embodyment of progress and his followers are heavily mutated. Tzeench's minions are the ever-changing horrors, flamers, the stingray-like screamers, and the Lord of Change, a psychic monstrosity. The Thousand Sons are his legion of choice. The champion of Tzeench is Ahriman, the sorceror that changed his legion into a horde of soulless automatons. It is Tzeench who controls the Warp. The most ambitious of beings are generally subverted by Tzeench.
Tzeench's rival is Nurgle.

Slannesh (I couldn't find his symbol)
Slannesh is the cause of the Eldar's Fall. Their arrogance and love of luxury came to be Slannesh. He is the young Prince of Chaos, and he takes the form of the most physically beautiful thing possible to each being that sees him or his minions. Slannesh's daemons are the Daemonette and the Keeper of Secrets. His legion is the garishly colored Emperor's Children. Lucius the Eternal is the champion of Slannesh. He sees Khorne as crude and unsophisticated, and won't touch him with an 8-foot pole.

Nurgle-http://www.sargona.ru/games/wh40k/cards/icons/nurgle.gif
Grandfather Nurgle is the will to let everything rot. He exists as disease and decay in the physical realm. His followers are disgusting bloated corpses with puss-filled sores and exposed, rotting organs. His legion is the Death Guard and his daemons are Plaguebearers, hordes of nasty little Nurglings, and the Great Unclean One. Typhus, the Host of the Destroyer Hive, is his champion. His grand rival is Tzeench.

The Ork Gods

Gork and Mork, the Ork gods of cunning and violence, are the center of Ork religion.

[CenturionCajun]

You could also enter in that the Emporer of Man is almost a God. He remains on the Golden Throne but his intelligence is in the Warp hiding from the Chaos Gods. His psychic powers are also so great that they are what keeps the Astronomicon functioning.

Khane, the war god of the Eldar, is also some level of Warp entity. His physical manifestation is the Eldra Avatar. There is alot of argument abour whether or not he is really Khorne in disguise.

[orkdom]

there are alot more eldaran gods in addition to khaine, such as the laughing god, asuryan and vaul

[Tegadil]

Khane, the war god of the Eldar, is also some level of Warp entity. His physical manifestation is the Eldra Avatar. There is alot of argument abour whether or not he is really Khorne in disguise.

Kaine USED to be a god. Got pasta fazowned by Slaanesh, and split into the avatars while he could. And quite frankly, I doubt he's Khorne in disguise. Also, there is Vaul, Isha, Asuryan, Ynnead, and Cegorach in the eldar pantheon. My memory is a bit wacky on Eldanesh, though. He might be a god, but I'm relatively sure he was just a really hoss eldar.

[Hangfire]

err guys... Khaine.. Khorne.... no one see's the connection? Khaine is the Eldar manifestation/version of Khorne.

I mean he is the god of violence and etc etc let's have a look at Khorne? Is he violent? Does a Tzeentchian Daemon like bird seed? Of course there's a connection! Remember the warp entities are REFLECTIONS of our psychic energies in the warp... to a greater or lesser extent the races created them... I for one know that my bedroom can double up as a shrine to nurgle...

Also remember slaneesh and khorne have a major hate on going for each other now I have to consider that in fluff Khaine was practically destroyed by Slaneesh's birth and the fall of the eldar race..... thinking of this as Khorne suddenly lost a big chunk of his power as his aspect of the Eldar race was shattered into tiny chunks wouldn't this tick you off a bit if you were Khorne? Kinda like taking away your dogs favourite bone isn't it?

[Tegadil]

I see where people come from when they put together conspiracy theories like that, but the most immediate difference I see is one of the most obvious.

Khaine is shattered. Khaine is gone, and it's very doubtful he is coming back. Khorne is not.

[Estocade]

He is gennerally the dominant God because he is fueled by the purest emotion: hatred.

O.K.! But are there any gods of hapiness or love, aren't they pur too? (heh)
Oh, and don't give me that "In the distant futur, there is only war" crap as an excuse lol.

[KlownDC]

well there is the laughing god...

[Vijil]

"He is gennerally the dominant God because he is fueled by the purest emotion: hatred."

Um, where in the 40k fluff is it stated that hatred is the purest emotion?

I'm pretty sure love is a stronger emotion anyway, although its very subjective. I know I have much more love than hate, and that there are people I would die for. I dont think Id be willing to die just to see my revenge exacted on someone...

Ok how the hell did I get onto that. Meh.

The Primary Chaos God with regards to the Eldar was Slaanesh I thought, because he was the first one to be manifested through the decadence of the ancient Eldar.

[Shakrith]

Khaine, Eldar God of War: Khaine was the god who defended the Eldar vs Slaanesh, and died, but hs avatars lived on. Note that he also destroyed the Nightbringer's first incarnation, thus saving the Eldar from the C'Tan.

Vaul, Eldar Forge God: The god Vaul is very similar to Greek Haphaistos. He made the Talismen of Vaul to destroy the Dragon (C'Tan who dwells on Mars). He did not succeed and these have since been captured.

Isha and Kurnous: These fertility gods were the mother and father of the Eldar race.

Ynnead: Ynnead is the Eldar god of the dead, formed from the mass consciousness of all Eldar souls. He is dormant but fated to obliterate Slaanesh.

Asuryan: Asuryan is the Eldar father god who blessed Asurmen to become the first Aspect Warrior.

Harlequin/The Laughing God:A positive deity, slightly twisted, who enjoys tormenting his foes. The Harlequins are his followers. He is most famous for driving the Outsider (a C'Tan) to insanity, and the Outsider will come back soon (next year's 40k campaign, say the rumours) to have his mad vengeance.

[NjalStormcall]

Isha was a goddess of love and one of gods which Slaaneesh destroyed.

There may be other "good" or "lawful" deities beyond the Laughing God and the Star Child, but they could only be minor ones since in the 40k universe, it states that hate and ill will are the stronger and more common emotions.

[Majestyk]

the only living Eldar Gods are the Laughing God and Ynnead. the others were all killed when Slaanesh was born.

[Shakrith]

Not all- Khaine was broken into Avatars. But the other gods still survive, but are no longerpowerful enough to challenge a C'Tan or Chaos god, and in fact have very little power at all. Ynnead arose after the fall, and has not yet awoken, though, like Slaanesh, he will, and just as powerfuly.

[|AXiN|]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Khaine get the moniker the "Bloody Handed God" because he murdered Kurnous? Anyway, Khaine is most definitely not Khorne. The main reason people think this is because in WHFB, he is. Confusing, yes? The Avatars of Khaine are the shattered remnants of that God, after he got smacked around by iirc Slaanesh at the time of the Fall. Thus, though the Avatars seem to be Greater Daemons, they aren't. They're just little bits of a God.

The Chaos Gods vary in levels of power, but generally Khorne is the most powerful because his power comes from rage and bloodlust, and in the WH40K universe there's one hell of a lot of killing. Nurgle can surpass him when there's a big plague going, but if there's an outbreak of hygiene, he can sink to being the least powerful. Tzeench is less powerful than Khorne, but more powerful than Slaanesh. He is most definitely evil, and Ahriman is not his champion, just another one of his unknowing pawns. Ahriman is seeking a way to become the master of the warp, able to wield its power but be unaffected by the whims of the gods and daemons. The reason he sorta-killed his entire legion was to prevent them from being affected by the warp. Slaanesh is the youngest and weakest of the Chaos gods, and has a disturbing obsession with the Eldar and their souls.

Each Chaos God's power is linked to the rise and fall of their material equivalents. Khorne becomes more powerful when there's a major war on, Tzeench when there's a lot of devious political manouvering going on, Nurgle when there are major plagues, and Slaanesh when there's a lot of decadence.

As for Gork and Mork, I have to admit I'm not really up on my knowledge of the Orks, but IIRC there's some debate over whether or not they really are warp entities in the same way as the Chaos Gods. They certainly don't wield power the way the other Gods do, and the only effect I've really noticed is that Orks are immune, more or less, to the machinations of Chaos. They can be possessed, and they can mutate, but they very, very rarely serve Chaos in any way shape or form. Old 'Stormboyz of Khorne' notwithstanding.

Oh, and the Star Child sort of doesn't exist any more, since 'Cult of the Star Child' is a term associated with Genestealer cults, and the Laughing God isn't good, just a slightly less Eldar-centric Eldar god. As in he is prepared to work with others to defeat Chaos.

[Korbah]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the strong impression that it was Khorne not Slannesh who shattered Khaine into pieces that became the avatars and that the birth of Slannesh was not the direct cause of Khaine's demise.

Aside from that I also remeber hearing that Gork and Morks are mortal orks that never died (Orks never mature.....they keep growing but are almost always killed in combat)

[|AXiN|]

The demise of Khaine was, iirc, in the 2nd ed Eldar codex, which I never got.

Gork and Mork definitely have some god-like powers, with the way that every Ork has an innate belief in the two of them and that Orks who follow one more than the other lean towards specific ways of waging war.

[ArchonArokN'ah]

I imagine (this is purely a hypothesis) that there are minor warp entities, and major warp entities. The minor ones are daemons and daemonettes, and the major ones are gods and god... ettes... esses? Anyway, the Emporer is not a god (or godess, or at least, I should hope not), he is (quote from The Matrix: Reloaded) just a man. However, he is hooked up to some giant machine doobly (the golden throne), so is essentially (just) alive. Dark Eldar have other ways of keeping alive for a long time (drinking souls).

The gods (that play a major part in WH 40K) are:
Khorne: God of War. Somebody said that love is a more powerful emotion than hate, but in warhammer 40000, there is much more hate than love (ie, a human and an eldar (gramma?) will not generally love each other unless...).

Tzeench: The god of change. This may amount to fate etc, so he controls what your dice do.

Slaanesh: The god of sensual pleasure. This is... Rated M.

Nurgle: The god of pestilence. Not that there needs to be one.

Gork and Mork I do not much about, but I imagine they are either regular (old...) orks, or they are a warp entity created by the greater subconcious of all Orks. Possibly both.

[|AXiN|]

Tzeench is not just the god of change, but also of magic, politics, backstabbing, intruige, and so on. So Machiavelli would be a candidate for a convert, as well as some random magician. He's also the god of Dark Side style power shortcuts - through him, you can achieve your goals much more quickly. For a price, of course.

[Richtofen]

You forgot the mention that the chaos god fueds are because they are created by opposite emotions.

Khorne = anger/hate
so is the opposite of...
Slaanesh = passion/physical love

This one is black and white:
Tzeentch = hope
Nurgle = Despair

From these emotions are derived into their most common assosiations:
Anger/hate turns to violence/blood
Physical love turns of pleasure

Hope turns to study, knowledge and magic (in WFB)/psychic powers (in 40k)
And despair turns to disease etc.

With tzeentch, you know how farseers scry the possible threads of the future? yeah, well tzeentch does that 24/7 and will gladly lose a battle or build up a champion just so he will tread on a patch of grass that will create the future that he wants. For this reason that Tzeentch's minions are nothing but puppets in his great play make him the most fickle of the gods. As said, Tzeentch's alignment is not black & white and his ultimate fate of the universe is completely unknown. Sometimes he even helps his enemies if it will further his own plans. All his gifts aren't evil. In WFB, one of his champions, Akeold Helbrass had a gift called "the breath of life" which caused new life to spring wherever he walks, even wooden doors would grow leaves and take root, which is the entire opposite of regular gifts, in which nature itself is repulsed by chaos.

Khorne just wants stuff to die, blood to be spilled. Simple enough. But if one of his champions loses, there will be a new chaos spawn.

Nurgle is the most 'caring' of the gods, he actually takes interest in the plights of his followers and it is this reason why he is called 'grandfather nurgle'.

Slaanesh is supposed to be the most beautiful being in existence. If you read Champions of Chaos (5th ed WFB chaos character book) then you know of Azazel, the daemon prince of Slaanesh. A Bretonnian knight went to slay him but was powerless to slay such a beautiful creature. And Slaanesh is infinitly more beautiful. In fantasy, the ONLY being to resist Slaanesh himself was Archaon (who is causing quite a storm in the Empire).

[TS_ahriman]

Tzeentch himself doesnt actually know how everything is going to end up. He sees infinate possibilites, but no actual certainties.

As for minor warp entities: whenever someone experiences an emotion, it becomes reflected in the warp. Normally, it amounts to no more than this, but if enough individuals all experience a certain emotion in a powerful enough way, a demon/god of the warp is formed. That's why there are essentially as many Chaos Gods as there are emotions. However, if an emotion is similar enough to one of the 4 major ones embodied in the gods, it get absorbed into that more powerful warp entity. Now, I think that there's a fifth chaos god that has a somewhat fanatical fanbase among 40k'ers called Malil, the god of destruction. He seeks to...destroy everything, and is sort of the anti-chaos god because if he succeeds it certainly wont be too chaotic around here.

[NightBringer]

theres all this talk about the chaos, eldar and ork gods... but you all seem to forget about the C'tan who predate all of them, and are partly responsible for the chaos gods becoming so powerful

[Majestyk]

by the C'tan aren't gods, just beings of near infinite power who devour stars. They only act with intent because the necrontyr found a war to condense their energies down to a focused body, and concentrated their dispersed and vast conciousness. (the C'tan's, not the Necrontyr's....) i don't know if that qualifies them as gods. The gods of the warp only exist because people's emotions and beliefs fuel them.

[-_Phoenix_-]

Not all- Khaine was broken into Avatars. But the other gods still survive, but are no longerpowerful enough to challenge a C'Tan or Chaos god, and in fact have very little power at all.
Slaneesh devoured all the Eldar Gods bar Khaine, who was instead shattered and The Laughing God, who tricked him and escaped into the webway. Ynnead doesn't actually exist yet, except in prophecies.

[Majestyk]

thus, he's not dead. <swish>

[orkdom]

the c'tan hate the warp, and the're definately not gods.

[NightBringer]

the necrons called them gods though they were just energy beings... just as chaos call the warp entities "gods" so there:P

[Majestyk]

but the only people who call the c'tan gods were the necrontyr. EVERYONE calls the Chaos Gods gods....

[NightBringer]

well form now on i wont :P

anything that is worshipped by something is for all intents and perposes, a god

[Majestyk]

heh...fine fine....so does that make the Primarchs gods? the Space Marines worship them......

[NightBringer]

a number of them were... abaddon to horus is an example

[dacarab]

This ties in with what I remember regarding Khaine - taken from here (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD127_Eldar.shtml)

When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God.

[Tegadil]

Two things: Firstly, I'm pretty sure Khaine was the bloody handed god because he totally stomped Eldanesh, and I'm also pretty sure that's why one of the moons was red. It could also be from Kurnous though, as I know no fluff about that guy.

Secondly, the fifth chaos god WAS Malal. WAS. He was the god of conflict - he'd do anything for a good fight. The reason he doesn't exist officially anymore is because of copyrights. Someone within GW had copyrighted Malal, and when he left, GW couldn't use Malal anymore or else they could get their pants sued off.

[Kaelorr]

the story is that malal got whooped by the other 3.

The reason i said hate is purest is because when two different peoples meet, they don't start with a hug. the first words between 2 groups are rarely positive. and these are the psycher-gods. psychic powers are only used in combat or for other negative purposes. and if there was a love god, the others would kick his nancy ass in a second.

Kaela Mensha Khaine is NOT khorne. they aren't facets of each other, they do not cooperate. Khaine is not a god of the warp in the same ways as the chaos gods. deal with it.

[Abaddon]

there is a 5th god, well don't know if you can call it the 5th, but is known as Chaos undivided(i think). who is a single entity and the others are aspects of this vast malevolent intelligence which mortals cannot hope to engage on any but the most basic level.-codex Chaos(latest versions).

None of the minor gods are named but i know there is 1 who watches over Fabius bile, and when are we gona see Slaanesh's Champion, Lucius the eternal(be a cool model)? Quiet a scary thought for anyone who faces him and wins, they become him and then end up being a twisted face on his armour

[HeraldofNurgle]

Chaos Undivided is not a god in itself. That means simply that the followers worhsip all of the chaos gods as a pantheon; basically a legion worships the entire compass, not just one of its points.

[TS_ahriman]

Now what happens if you kill lucius and then chomp down on a grenade? Does the poor manufactorium worker that made the grenade start getting these weird scars all over him. Dang, but that would suck.

[BlackTemplar]

You're all forgetting the Shadow Lord from Mordheim!


:jig:

[Dante]

There was a fifth chaos god once! Really its in a white dwarf...part of the ask dirty steve section...Im gonna look for it later. But apparently he is no longer, and when asked about it Dirty Steve got MAD! I guess he is just one of the many entities that were lost int he years (squats, gene stealer cult, etc.)

[Kaelorr]

woh... misplaced space.

Chaos undivided is no fun. everything's all balanced. I play a barely-tolerable mix of Tzeench and Khorne. all magic and chainswords. :P

[Abaddon]

Now what happens if you kill lucius and then chomp down on a grenade? Does the poor manufactorium worker that made the grenade start getting these weird scars all over him. Dang, but that would suck.

hmmm, a wait just read the Codex you only become him if you take pleasure in killing him even for a split second so the worker wouldn't become him, unless he took pleasure in making the grenade which killed lucius, now that would suck

As for this Shadow lord havent got a clue on him i only play 40k.

[Richtofen]

You're all forgetting the Shadow Lord from Mordheim!

Be'lakor?

This has to be sarcastic...

Be'lakor isn't a god. He's coming out next month in minature form. He is known as the Shadowlord, the Dark Master etc but he is most certainly NOT a god (not yet in his opinion anyway). While not the most powerful fighter (blade of the ether would make him so much better) he does have some good rules like whispers in the darkness, and good spells. Be'lakor is the first daemon prince and became full of himself so Tzeentch trapped him. As the shadowlord and the dark master he tried to get enough power to become a god but on Albion he only got enough to set himself free. He is a bit crazy and hates Archaon who he sees as nothing but an upstart. He is currently steam rolling south west through the empire behind Archaon with his daemonic legions and former Grand Theogonist Volkmar the Grim, strapped to his standard. He is marching towards Middenheim in hope to beat Archaon to the flames of Ulric.

[Kaelorr]

About the Lucius thing: Who in their right mind would bite a bomb after defeating a chaos champion? That is a major loophole. If the killer didn't survive to revel in Lucius's destruction or was vaporized before he could be come Lucius, than the champion would be screwed.

[SWPIGWANG]

I think screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" while slicing up Lucius probably would work.

Khorne would show those Slannesh whose boss.

[BlackTemplar]

@Richtofen Yeah, that was facetious. ;)

[Majestyk]

actually, if Be'lakor succeeds in his plan to overthrow Archaon and become the Everchosen, and corrupts the Flame of Ulrich in Middenhiem, he might actually become a god. its been his plan all along. He is supposed to be the oldest and most powerful Daemon prince. a shame his stats don't really reflect it.....

[Hangfire]

This ties in with what I remember regarding Khaine - taken from here (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD127_Eldar.shtml)

When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God.


Kaerlorr MY Emphasis on the words. He nails it RIGHT on the head.

[Ghost Maker]

Gods of warhammer 40k

Chaos
KHORNE
Khorne is the god of war,skulls and blood

slannesh (a.k.a the dark prince , the great enemy/devourer)
god of sensual/sexual plesure in all forms even death.

Nurgle ( father nurgle , grandfather nurgle)
This god is the god of desiese but also of joy in that he likes looking over his subjects and actually cares for them in a way

Tzeentch (changer of the ways)
god of magic, and change

GORK AND MORK
Ork gods of violence and cunning may be supernatural really old god orks

ELDAR GODs
Vaul = god of the smith
isha= god of the harvest (spirit stones refer to her tears) also love i think
kaela mensha kaine= god of war
Aseryan = head god ( much like zeus in greek legend)
laughing god = god of the harlequins
Ctan are viewed as god by ONLY the necrons they include (they are actually star vampires )

The deviever
the night bringer
the outsider
omissha/ iron dragon

The empror = sort of a demi god with supernatural powers (half god maybe like hercules) but a god to the imperium
sorry for the spelling

GO AND DESTROY THE CHAOS TRAITORS
SERVICE TO THE IMPERIUM
FAIL ME NOT
FAIL NOT THE EMPEROR

[IWAssassin]

In terms of godhood the Emperor is an oddity. While the four Chaos Gods feed purely on negative warp energy, the emperor feeds purely on positive warp energy, and is the only known powerful being to do so [The Laughing God Might, it's possible the Eldar Pantheon did, but most are dead]. The oddity of the Emperor is that while he would by all means qualify as a Warp God, he ALSO has a phsyical body. Something none of the others do. So while at the height of his power he could probably have kicked Khorne's ass, he's simply not the same type of god. There's also an implication that he MIGHT be Ynnead. It's lose, but it's there. [It would also explain why he has no name, would be a dead giveaway to US if we heard of him refered to as "Emperor Ynnead" even if his servants wouldnt know Ynnead was the Eldar God of the Dead who will one day [shortly after the Emperor's body fails] be Born [stories are the Emperor will be reborn if his body fails] and kick the ass of Slaneesh [we know he obliterated the most powerful of the Chaos God's Servants infused with all their combined power, not a stretch to believe he could kick their ass directly if he was not tied to the physical realm].

Gork and Mork I doubt are gods. Suffice to say with the low level Ork Psychic ability the "god" could do things without ever existing. So long as the Orks believe it was Gork or Mork who did it, then the belief that these Gods do things for the Orks becomes even greater. Thus they are nothing more than manifestations of the psychic will of the Ork Race, which is why they arent talked about in the same manner as Khorne or Nurgle which are actual ENTITIES, not merely concepts.

In a Way Gork and Mork are the "man created god" theory. Where god did not create man, but man did create god. With one extension. By creating God the god will have power and the effects of that power will make Orks believe more in the god, which in turn gives the God yet more power (:

[Capt. Invictus]

well, shouldn't the champions of the gods be the particular chapter's primarch?

but i think that gork and mork are ork gods, because if they weren't, then how the hell would they be able to do the gork and mork spells in fantasy?

[Cailet]

The fifth god is Malal who is now represented by chaos undivided, he was pure chaos aka random vicious and painfully violent. he no longer exists for whatever reason (probably legal) but there are still armies based on him lying around. I think he was "killed off" because he attacked everyone at once.

[orkdom]

the fifth god used to be the skaven chaos god, i think he actually was a big rat, but they phased him out in the newer editions of WFB

also, the emperor is a physical part of the "star child", one of the few good gods in the whole game... don't know much about him

and, on gork and mork, they are gods created by the collective energy of a lot of orks in one place together. thats how the magic spells from WFB and the ork psychic powers from 40k occur. the caster is flooded with the collective psyche of surrounding orks, and it floods from his mind wherever he directs it...

[-_Phoenix_-]

Can we please stop confusing matters by involving WFB stuff in here ?

[ObsceneName]

Khaine isnt Khrone but a aspect.
Slanesh isnt just pleasure The dark prince is the god of perfection.
And why does the dark prince and khrone hate each other kahine
Khaine was like the pinky of khrone he whore thirsts tried to eat it i wonder what happened. Khrone is by far the most powerfull of the chaos gods while Slanesh is the weakest she was the strongest at her birth when he ate all those souls. And some one before said teh Dragon was Mars hes not on mars for christ sakes GW mentioned it at a gamesday

[Triceron]

okay, I'm really confusing things, but I thought Khaine was the Laughing God...

[Cailet]

The Skaven god is the Horned Rat now pack with the WFB OK?
Khaine is unrelated to Khorne, the Eldar are not stupid.
Please spell properly, the mistakes ranged from the amusing to the irritating and are not any kind of help. Khorne is the name NOT Khrone.
The odds are that Dragon is in the Noctis Labarynthus of Mars (go read Codex:Necrons at the nearest GW the hints are blindingly obvious) and there is no more prolific a group of liars, fools and misinformers than GW staff (particularly store managers).
Slaanesh and the Nightbringer have both had their shots at Khaine. Nightbringer hurt him during the War in Heaven then Slaanesh smashed Khaine into fragments (now the Avatars) because Khaine fought him/her to protect the Eldar.
The laughing god aka Cegorach is a totally different entity who commands the Harlequins.

[Twisp]

"I'm pretty sure love is a stronger emotion anyway, although its very subjective. I know I have much more love than hate, and that there are people I would die for. I dont think Id be willing to die just to see my revenge exacted on someone..."

I'm pretty sure hate beats love. Hatred overcomes love constantly; queue man killing wife for cheating on him. When was the last time you saw soldiers fighting in trenches suddenly grab eachother in a hug and declare [i]rainbow-happy-day[i]?

[TS_ahriman]

Just yesterday actually.

[Twisp]

"DIE MOTHER F-... wait, why are we doing this? How about we turn these frowns upside down! BOLTER-WEAR PARTY!"

[senor_kickass]

Were you in France when you saw this?

[Paranoia833]

Kaine USED to be a god. Got pasta fazowned by Slaanesh, and split into the avatars while he could. And quite frankly, I doubt he's Khorne in disguise. Also, there is Vaul, Isha, Asuryan, Ynnead, and Cegorach in the eldar pantheon. My memory is a bit wacky on Eldanesh, though. He might be a god, but I'm relatively sure he was just a really hoss eldar.


I don't know, I mean I could easily believe that Khaine is an aspect of Khorne, whose personality has been shaped by the faith of the Eldar. Remember, in some incarnations Khorne is actually a pretty decent guy, who fights with honour and martial pride and all that, it's just that in his purest form he's an amoral bezerker who embodies all the anger in the universe.

[Crackseed]

Eldanesh was a mortal that was incredibly powerful and was slain by Khaine out of jealousy and punishment. That is why Khaine's hand drips blood constantly, a reminder of his sin in killing Eldanesh.

Khaine himself is actually a jealous, bloodthirsty god of the Eldar. He's like a problem child, but fiercely loyal when the Eldar need him. Hence why he fought Slaanesh, and lost but remains in his Avatars to protect the Craftworlds.

So no, Khaine is NOT an aspect of Khorne. Similar tendencies save that Khaine is actually not a mad raving psychopathic BLOOD craving god ;)

[NjalStormcall]

I think that in a 2nd edition spell, one of the Orky psyker powers embodied itself as a really big green hand reaching out of a warpgate, grabbing someone, and squashing him or her.

Whether that is the actual Hand of Gork, or a psionic embodiment of it is up to you to decide. And regarding love, I'll say that strong hate spurs people to kill more easily than strong love. Or simply there's not much strong love - people often stir up crowds with hate, but with love? *cackle*


As for "minor warp powers"...the Chaos Codex mentions Mo'rcck, Phraz-Etar and An'sl. I don't think there is any lack of entities more powerful than a daemon, but less powerful than a "god." As for warp presence - after all, every single human being as a tiny footprint in the Warp(our souls)...does that make every one of us a warp power? And for the warp presence affecting reality - every single psyker uses his psychic footprint in the Warp or soul, depending how you want to see it, to affect reality. Does that make them godlike?

[orkdom]

ya in third edition there's a power called stomp, where this big green foot(gork's foot) comes outta the sky and squishies squads o' da marine-boyz
(blast temp.),and there's also a power called gork'll get'em...

[|AXiN|]

Orks have always had a more symbiotic relationship with their gods than everyone else.

Just to reiterate again, Khaine is not, in any way, shape, or form, related to Khorne. At all. Ever.

And please don't make comments slagging off at the French, or any other group, senor_kickass, it's childish and immature, and I find it extremely irritating.

[Kaelorr]

Though the Hand of Gork is extremely ammusing, the idols in his name, gargants, are even more so. I played a game where my own gargant accidentaly mashed my gunwagon. Squiggoths stepping on things are also good.

eventually the Golden throne will fail. this will probably destroy the systems linked to it, most notably the Astronomican. The vast Imperium of Man will collapse and the vast psychic energy of the False Emperor will manifest itsself... somewhere. All chaos needs is the awakening of the third C'tan and they will off the weakling Emperor...:cool:

[NightBringer]

ummm ^^^ chaos waking up the third (and fourth) C'tan... thats a very bad iea for everyone, esp chaos lol... the C'Tan want to dispatch the chaos gods and close off the warp forever

[orkdom]

but thats only because the c'tan HATE the warp, it hurts 'em lots.
besides, if the c'tan awaken then obviously its part of the lord tzeentch's master plan...

[DarthFelth]

yeah prolly to kill the other chaos gods ;)

[NightBringer]

the C'Tan dont care about his "master plan" they want to destroy him lol

[Hangfire]

TO EVERYONE who says there is no connection between Khorne and Khaine in 40K I would please direct you to

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD127_Eldar.shtml

Which is quoting from Eldar by Rick Priestley, Jes Goodwin, William King and Lindsey D Le Doux Paton (White Dwarf 127)

Now is THAT is not canon I don't know what is

and it says...

AVATARS

When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God.

That was for you |AXiN| and Kaelorr

[Crackseed]

*Thanks Hangfire and humbly stands corrected* :)

[-_Phoenix_-]

*Reminds both Hangfire and Crackseed thats wayyyyy outdated fluff.

[Triceron]

So Phoenix, do you have any newer, more relevant official fluff to add to the Khaine/Khorne discussion? The Khaine/Khorne thing is an old issue, not a new one. It doesn't need any new fluff to explain it, it's already explained right there....

[DarthFelth]

simply he dosnt as i havent read any, i think hes rather new to 40k ;)

[Dimension]

just because khorne feels some kind of kinship to another god doesn't mean that god is an aspect or part of himself. khaine was violent, khorne liked that, and since he didn't like what young upstart slaanesh was doing, he decided to put him in his place. after all, there cannot be much bloodshed, when all life is devoured by slaanesh ;)

the fluff can go in both directions, but frankly i think khaine having nothing to do with khorne makes more sense. he had his own will, was worshipped by different people, and stands for another emotion, even if both rage and an urge to protect turn bloody. khorne might have possibly absorbed or killed khaine, but khaine managed to escape by breaking himself up when the chaos gods were spent.

[DarthFelth]

that makes him sound more like a play thing and while they were fighting he was simply dropped and forgotten hehe, but khorne had many faces perhaps this was just anouther, or perhaps one of his more powerful daemons, either way we will not know

[-_Phoenix_-]

simply he dosnt as i havent read any, i think hes rather new to 40k ;)
I'm not, but never mind :)

As for newer fluff, simply look at the 2 Ed Eldar Codex. Theres no mention of Khorne in Slaanesh's battle aginst Khaine at all.

One thing i'd like to throw out about the Eldar gods.

From the Eldar stories I think they may have been extremly powerful Eldar, in the same vein as the Emperor, rather then warp entities like Chaos gods. What do people think about that ?

[NightBringer]

the emporer isn't powerfull, hes jsut a bit more psychic than other humans :P
and has a big fanbase

[Paranoia833]

just because khorne feels some kind of kinship to another god doesn't mean that god is an aspect or part of himself. khaine was violent, khorne liked that, and since he didn't like what young upstart slaanesh was doing, he decided to put him in his place. after all, there cannot be much bloodshed, when all life is devoured by slaanesh ;)

the fluff can go in both directions, but frankly i think khaine having nothing to do with khorne makes more sense. he had his own will, was worshipped by different people, and stands for another emotion, even if both rage and an urge to protect turn bloody. khorne might have possibly absorbed or killed khaine, but khaine managed to escape by breaking himself up when the chaos gods were spent.

Except that ALL warp beings who feed off the faith of others are, in some way, part of the chaos gods. That's what the chaos gods are, the sum total of all faith/emotion in the universe. Evey warp being is linked to the chaos gods in some way, as the faith that feeds them also runs into the chaos gods.

I know it's for WHFB, but the 'Hordes of Chaos' book also pretty much states that all warp-gods, including Sigmar and Ulric, are aspects of the Chaos gods, and that this is pretty much the most horrifying thing of all. Of course, 40k fluff states that the Emporer is in direct opposition to the Chaos gods, so it's really down to individual interpretation, but whatever.

From the Eldar stories I think they may have been extremly powerful Eldar, in the same vein as the Emperor, rather then warp entities like Chaos gods. What do people think about that ?

Read Codex: Necrons and some of the C'tan/Old Ones fluff, I think it's pretty clear that the Eldar gods are warp based beings in some way.

[TheWatcher]

the emporer isn't powerfull, hes jsut a bit more psychic than other humans :P
and has a big fanbase

On the contrary, the Emperor is powerful. For a start, he's immortal (having been born...what...a few hundred years BCE I think it was?), secondly, he's incredibly more psychic than any other human, which has been amplified even more by his ascension to the Golden Throne, and whilst he was still walking about he was a) a tactical genius, and b) powerful physically. 'Course he's lost that now but, like you said, has the huge fan base :)

[NjalStormcall]

Give me one other human being who can ward off the very Chaos Gods from destroying anything, like the Emperor did with the Primarchs. The Emperor is essentially a living god - although if you take from the 2nd edition, his Star Child incarnation in the Warp is fairly weak and survives like the Laughing God - by hiding and trickery. The Star Child feeds of positive energies like hope and mercy, which may be uncomfortable for the dark gods to be around.

[Dimension]

Except that ALL warp beings who feed off the faith of others are, in some way, part of the chaos gods. That's what the chaos gods are, the sum total of all faith/emotion in the universe. Evey warp being is linked to the chaos gods in some way, as the faith that feeds them also runs into the chaos gods.

if you look at it this way, there are no chaos gods in the ordinary sense, there is only one big chaos... thing, with several facets, each of which is a warp god or warp entity.

but i don't look at it this way.

the four chaos gods are not the sum total of all faith/emotion in the universe imo. for starters, not all emotional beings feed into them.

tau don't. they have hardly a footprint in the warp at all

eldar only partially and only if you consider khaine to be an aspect of khorne, as well as consider slaanesh to be worshipped by them which is something no eldar does to my knowledge. even Dark Eldar only seek to appease him, but they don't worship him(afaik). in any case, craftworld and exodite eldar certainly don't worship him.

orks have their own gods, so they don't feed into the four chaos gods unless you consider gork to be a khorne facet and mork to be a tzeentch facet (which is doubtful, since orks can't be corrupted).

necron certainly don't feed into the chaos gods. they don't have emotions, and see the C'Tan as their masters, entities older than the warp gods themselves.

tyranids have a hive consciousness. they also hate the warp. they have no gods. this makes me think they don't fuel the chaos gods either.

my conclusion: only humans and eldar to some extent contribute to the four chaos gods. together, these races make up less than half of all conscious beings. after all, orks are the most common race in the galaxy, and who knows how many nids and necron inhabit the galaxy at any given point of time. keeping this in mind, saying all faith and all emotions flow into the chaos gods is a statement i'd not stand behind.

*edit* actually, tyranids hating the warp is something i heard somewhere, then saw repeated here, so i kinda took it for the truth.

[Tegadil]

tyranids have a hive consciousness. they also hate the warp. they have no gods. this makes me think they don't fuel the chaos gods either.


I agree that all warp gods/entities are not part of chaos, but where did you find that Tyranids hate the warp? Zoanthropes and synapse creatures are psychic themselves, and it seems very likely that the Hive Mind is a warp entity, possibly strong enough to be considered a warp god itself.

[NightBringer]

the hive mind is literally what you people have been agruing about the chaos gods... many of you say thet the gods are the sum of all the diferent emotions of the races... whereas the hive mind LITTERALLY is every single tyranid creature's mind all linked together like the borg of ST (except without the single queen) except that there are several hive minds, becasue there are seceral hive fleets, each fleet ha its own hive mind. whether there is a biiiig big hive mind that controls the separate hive minds of the fleets is jsut speculation. and zaonthropes are psychic becasue they are a bi-product of the DNA absorbed from the eldar

[Cherubael]

I started playing the TT in 3rd edition and never found any mention of this Star Child. What exactly is/was it?

[Paranoia833]

Tau do have a VERY FAINT footprint in the warp, read the Firewarrior novelisation (actually don't, it's not that great, but you get the idea), just cause they don't have psychic powers, doesn't mean they aren't linked to the warp at all, they just aren't as far up the evolutionary ladder as other races (Or else their genes have been deliberately tampered with).

Also races don't have to worship the chaos gods, they just have to feel the relevent emotion (the pre-fall Eldar didn't worship Slaanesh you know, well most of them didn't, yet they still gave birth to him/her)

Moving on, while Orks lack the psyche to be corrupted, it doesn't mean they don't feel hope, despair anger or pleasure. If they feel any of those then they feed chaos in some way.

I Agree with you on the Necrons, they forfeited their souls when they chose the metal bodies, and thus are utterly seperate from the warp, but since they don't feel emotion they don't count.

Likewise the Tyranids are not sentient. Therefore they only shape the warp on an instinctual level, such as with the Shadow in the Warp. Tyranids also don't particularly care about warp entites, though they don't particularly hate them either, any more than an animal hates an environment it can't feed off of.

I'd say you're conclusion that fails to take into account all the evidence, as there are hundreds of races in the 40K galaxey with psychic potential that simply don't have armies (some of which are detailed in the novels). Basically if a race has warp gods (and for Orks, the Waagh is low level psychic power) then they can shape the warp in some way. If they can shape the warp with their souls, then they ultimately contribute to the chaos gods, if only on a subconcious level.

[BlackTemplar]

*Smacks forehead*

Read the Forum Rules, please.



*puts on his "Lame wanna-be moderator with no life other than reading these forums" pants*

[Paranoia833]

You're right, I was being rude. Okay, I'll go back and edit, sorry about that.

[NjalStormcall]

I started playing the TT in 3rd edition and never found any mention of this Star Child. What exactly is/was it?

Humans have souls in the Warp, and so does the Emperor. It is called the Star Child, and it is a remenant of the days when the Warp was a more pristine place. The Star Child feeds off the positive emotions of the Warp, and while the Chaos Gods have been trying to consume it, the Star Child always slips away - one gets the feeling that the Star Child is playing with the Chaos Gods.

Its not known what will happen if the Emperor dies - somebody apparently said that the death of the physical body of the Emperor will cause the Star Child to morph into some Warp-wrecking avenging god of humanity. However it may be, the Illuminati aren't looking forward to have the Emperor die at all.

[orkdom]

One thing i'd like to throw out about the Eldar gods.

From the Eldar stories I think they may have been extremly powerful Eldar, in the same vein as the Emperor, rather then warp entities like Chaos gods. What do people think about that ?

the eldar gods WERE all gods, and there were some extremely powerful mortal eldar who associated closely w/ the gods, and sometimes got into fights(khaine killed a beloved eldaran son of one of the other eldar gods after being tricked, and thats why his hand always bloody...). the emperor is the physical part of the star child, the god trying to kill the chaos gods but cannot begin the real war whilst the emperor still lies trapped in the physical realm via the golden throne(read the last chapter of the book "Eye of Terror" by Barrington J. Bayley).

[GreatSamaman]

I'm stickying this thread so I can lock down subsequent repeat threads, and prevent new people from being lost and repeating the same fluff/tt questions :D

EDIT: Added the thread to table of content post

[Imperial marine]

Tzeench is the main god? in this white dwarf u can make charriots for the chaos for normal warhammer the tzeench 1 looks cool and easy to make hope u can use it for 40k aswell tzeench must be the brains