What is going to happen to the marines?

[Lord Bishop]

O.K ive been reading about the gods of warp thred and all the new shiny weapons of the Tau and all their weapons that are bitching! (VERY SHINY) so ermm what are the Marines going to get? Because the way i see things going the whole of humantiy is about to get well and truely fcuk-ed! So yeah we going to get somthing or we going to die? (BTW i stopped playing the TT game about 6 years so waaaaayyyyyyyy out of touch with the new stuff only hear say is what i know) somone shead me some light!

[soqloopr]

there going to redo the space marine codex with all sorts of tweaks, new techmarine came out, weapons will be tweaked, and i bet there keeping some stuff as a surprise

[Lord Bishop]

always good to hear, new question anyone got a link/addy for a site that has complete listings of all the races and the types of monster thingys and so....

[KingKupo]

It isn't exactly complete as it doesn't encompass old races, but it's basically all of the current official races:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/warhammer40k.htm

[No Surrender]

The official GW (www.games-workshop.com) site has a breif run down of all the races.

[ShineDog]

tau basic weapons, for all there awesomeness, still ping off marines armour good :P

[Espi0n]

humanity has marines!!!

'nuff said. :D

[Shadione]

"Ha! The Imperium is a big place, my boy. The universe is always unleashing some new catastrophe, some marauding race. Hundreds of worlds die, but millions more proper. It matters not. Nothing can truly hurt us here."

- Lord Magister Ithax Stroam, Terra

[Captain Zog]

Yeah the Tau empire is tiny, if we had stopped the Black Crusade, the Imperium would have launched a new Great Crusade and the tau would have been a target.

As for all these new events with Necrons, i don't think we have to worry, just need some deathwatch and a number of melta bombs, to destroy the power gems in the Tomb Complexes and stop the rising. (Ok there are a LOT of tomb complexes, many still hidden and all well defended, but it is doable)

[NightBringer]

captain zog... u dont understand, the necrons are an entire race of billions of warriors spread out across the galaxy... you'd never be able to find all of the stasis chambers! and if u want to destroy those, then u'd better think about finding and destroying all the tombspyders and pylons(biiig muther ordinance weapon able to destroy tanks like the fireprism cannon kills men) that protect them, and even then thats jsut the slaves, the C'tan themselves are more than capable of beating humanity into submission:P

[Captain Zog]

C'tan? pffft their shells are as vulnerable to lascannon fire as anything else


Give me 5 Terminators, Solid snake infinite ammo bandanas and use of a starship and i'll finish those robotic pansies easily. Destroying their power source will destroy the warriors, so some gung ho risky teleporting is called for, I'll need Star Trek's Scotty as well

[NightBringer]

C'tan? pffft their shells are as vulnerable to lascannon fire as anything else


Give me 5 Terminators, Solid snake infinite ammo bandanas and use of a starship and i'll finish those robotic pansies easily. Destroying their power source will destroy the warriors, so some gung ho risky teleporting is called for, I'll need Star Trek's Scotty as well

umm, their shells are only their to give them physical form, when not encarsarated in the necrodermus they are beings of energy, able to shape the material realm as they will!

and as for "Destroying their power source will destroy the warriors" howd u work that out? those generators have nothing to do with the necrons themselves, all it has to do with is keeping em in stasis, if u destroy that all it'll do is wake them all up fool, then u'll really be screwed... and as for terminators... HA HA HA(sound of sarcastic laughter) paraihs anyone? no armour saves, attack before termies? :P

[Captain Zog]

Since the sarcasticness (NEW WORD) of my post has been ignored

I mean the tomb complex power source that teleports them back when they are crushed, the one the Deathwatch destroyed after a battle report

Pariahs suck, they don't vanish (IIRC) and die proper like
Also, the C'tan are not as powerful as all that, a vortex grenade would be enough to finish one of them (being as it would suck them into the warp)



Ho hum

[NightBringer]

the C'tan cannot be sucked into the warp! that is clearely stated in the necron codex!

an as i have stated in other threads... THERE IS NO POINT USING SARCASM IN TEXT UNLESS U STATE IT AT THE BEGINNING OR END OF THE TEXT IN BRACKETS BECASUE U CANT READ SARCASM

[Captain Zog]

Fair enough, but a localised warp vortex would be roughly the same effect as the talismen's of Vaul's warp cannons, which were designed for a specific purpose



...and i'm spent, I wish GW hadn't bothered with Necrons, the race doesn't gel for me at all

EDIT i thought the whole 'give me 5 terminators with solid snake bandanas was obvious enough about the sarcasm, but hey, i'm not in the mood for any more in the way of heated debate tonight

[NightBringer]

what do you mean introduced? they were in the original spin off game space quest (or what ever it was called). and it also gives great background to the galaxy (unlike most fluff which is mostly about humanity)

[Captain Zog]

Really? Links pls, i would be interested to read some of this, i was pretty sure the first time Necrons were mentioned was 2nd ed (as far as i knew, before that the only robot warriors mentioned were ones created by humanity during the golden age of tech)


EDIT nm, found a necron forum, i'm just reading the stuff now, finally i am finding stuff that makes me kinda like the army (like the deceiver having worshippers in the Adeptus Mechanicus who apparently build the pariahs for him - in the codex apparently)

[Bootae]

Actually the models that came with with Space Crusade were not Necrons, they were called Chaos Androids (I use to own 2 copies of Space Crusade and it's expansions). A one off, bizarre, never mentioned in any fluff elsewhere, random bit of wierdness. However, it's an easy mistake to make as the model looks exactly like the Necron models that came out later. Perhaps it was part of the inspiration for the Necron's robot form. Necrons themselves came out properly in 2nd edition, the Raiders most are familiar with.

The C'Tan were first mentioned in the Rogue Trader book, but it was just a single line of text about the evil of the C'Tan (Don't have my RT to hand at the mo to check exactly what it says) that didn't have any future plans or thought behind it.

Back on topic, Spacemarines will get minor tweaks, they'll stay hard as nails. Tau? Tau schmau. Their Empire is absolutely tiny, they have no concept of the size of the Imperium and what they're really messing with. If they ever become more than minor threat and a REAL Imperial task force and crusade is launched, then oh dear, bye bye Tau.

[ObsceneName]

heh Marines get stuff all the times its the other races im worried about more or less like the Tyranids or Orks the only 2 races that pose a real threat to the imperium and its been directly stated at a games ady that the dragon isnt on mars so please stop saying that crap.

[GreatSamaman]

The only thing that prevented the Tau from being wiped out in the first place was the fact that huge warp storms prevented an Imperial Force from reaching the planet. So, they couldn't wipe them out, and by the time they heard from them again, the Tau were much more technologically advanced. However, with all the crap from Chaos now, and the thorn in the side from the other races as well, the Imperium hasn't done much against Tau aside from defend worlds. I suspect this will make a very nice campaign in the future to fend off the Tau expansion. :D

[NightBringer]

well thanks to abbadons 13th crusade, the tau fully reclaimed their 2nd founding worlds (the ones the damocles crusade destroyed) and expanded to 3rd foundings aswell, completely taking over the damocles gulf (and then some)

source: impireal loyalty results for planets and allied races, tau 135%

[Triceron]

Well with recent events, since the Imperium was focused mainly on the Eye of Terror threat with Chaos, they never really had time to deal with the Tau and the Tau have expanded quite a bit since, and they've been incorporating more and more Gue'Vesa troops as their own. And who knows, maybe in a few more years worth of time they might be developing some new weapons or technology that helps them stay on level to ward off the Imperium's counter attacks.

[NightBringer]

i have no doubt that they will be doing that. recent example is clear, they invented the rail rifle, seeing how effective the railgun is at destroying imperial tnks, why know try and do the same to infantry lol

[Lord Bishop]

as some dude said from some where "Give me a 1000 men crazy enough to conqour hell and i will conqour hell!" think the same could be used on the Tau or from British history Mary 1st "turn or burn" But in the end the war shell continue even if the Marines conqour hell! (would be impressive)

[Twisp]

Given that the game is almost entirely focused on Close Combat in 3rd Edition... I think the Tau are messed. Well, they are messed now, but maybe if their guns are improved further they'll have a chance.

[Lord Bishop]

a rail gun need improving? i head one of my mates saying how is preds got taking out by 1 of them before they got into range/view (somthing like that, not sure on the rules so i cant say more) but all gones advance or new types come out

[NightBringer]

i didn't mean improve the railgun (its the best heavy weapon in the game in terms of str and AP as far as i know str.10 AP.1

i mean develope a gun that uses the submunnition of it for firewarriors

[Bootae]

Given that the game is almost entirely focused on Close Combat in 3rd Edition... I think the Tau are messed. Well, they are messed now, but maybe if their guns are improved further they'll have a chance.

4th edition rules come out soon, there's already a teaser pdf file on GW site with a preview. The changes to shooting and vehicles make Tau a LOT nastier.

[Shakrith]

The Tau are pathetic. The Imperials could crush them if they wanted. Only a couple of chapters would be needed.

[Lord Bishop]

yeah thats why i said the whole 1000 people remark in my last post above (points up)

[Triceron]

Well yeah, the imperium says a lot of stuff. But look at what happened with the Damocles Crusade.

Anyways, if the Tau do fall, I don't think it'd be because of the Imperium, but rather the Ethereals somehow becoming corrupted or some other civil problems.

[Lord Bishop]

empires are *most* of the time brought down from the inside hardly the outside!

[ObsceneName]

The imperiums current situation the minute the imperium focus's a attack on the tau is the minute the imperium falls. The true threats to tau are the tyranids and orks. and theirselves theirs already been one great heresy in their relativly short history(Commander Farsight).

[Deathwing]

empires are *most* of the time brought down from the inside hardly the outside!

Right. I think that's why GW published the codices for playing the Inquisition, especially the Witch Hunters and Demon Hunters.

Perhaps the Marines will get a boost from the upcoming Alien Hunters Codex. I recently found some old rules for the Deathwatch and it seems that they are awesome fighting the aliens with their different types of ammo.

And if the Space Marines won't get a boost from that, there is still the new Codex for the 4th edition.

So let's just wait(, hope) and see.

[Lord Bishop]

very true, going to have to get a job so i can start collecting Marines again (most likely Blood angles or death company or the Legion of the Damned)

[Shakrith]

The Roman Empire fell from within and without... the Athenian Empire fell from without. And?

[Lord Bishop]

"Anyways, if the Tau do fall, I don't think it'd be because of the Imperium, but rather the Ethereals somehow becoming corrupted or some other civil problems"

thats why i said empires fall from the inside not the outside man read the post's dont just jump the gun (granted i should do that 2)


*ermmm this has appeared here for some reason should be in response to te other dude (strange)*

[NightBringer]

ummm, commander farsight isn't a heretic and has no intention of commiting heresy against the etherals, he and his clae simply turned away form the rest of the tau empire to live separatly, but if the impirium did muster a force to destroy the tau, i think he'd fight to protect his species.

on another note i did once have an idea to convert some kind of CC tau unit, using the green rods form the necron sprues for sword blades

[Captain Zog]

A cc tau unit, as in to represent the Farsight cc tau?
Being as normal Tau don't seem to understand that cc training is a GOOD thing

[NightBringer]

yeah seeing as farsight likes combat, so i thin the rest of his clave would too :P

[GreatSamaman]

I heard from some people that Farsight is actually Kais from FireWarrior...is this true? I read the book about 2 times, and I havnt heard proof of it anywhere. Anyone know?

[NightBringer]

no kais is jsut another special character which probably has his own special rules and stats somewhere

[Captain Zog]

Yeah Kais was trying to rescue an Ethereal, not something farsight would be keen to do (unless firewarrior is set in the 40k past)

[TheWatcher]

Somehow I doubt the Marines are going to get the boot. In fact, I can almost assure you it won't happen:

Space Marines are the most popular army in 40k
Popularity = profit for GW
Therefore, GW aren't going to make their most popular, thus most profit-yeilding army rubbish. In fact, it's likely they'll get even better. So no worries :)

Btw, I did think for a little that Farsight and Kais were the same person. Would be interesting if they were...

[|AXiN|]

AFAIK, both Marines and Dark Eldar are getting new codicies asap in 4th ed. They were, after all, the first codicies released under 3rd, and are showing their age. (Compare the SM stuff with the CSM stuff. Now give me a non-fluff related reason to play SM)

I can see a lot of newish stuff being done for SMs, they're supposed to be on the bleeding edge of Imperial technology, hence Land Speeders and their automated sponsons and stuff. I think some more emphasis on their monkishness and tendency to win wars in an astonishingly short period of time would go down well.

[ObsceneName]

Your saying turnig away from the greater good isnt tau heresy if that isnt i dont know what is.

[Lord Bishop]

i was asking about Marines now its the TAu, not thats a problem. Nice to see different views n all that....carry on

[NightBringer]

well, they tau dont have an emporer do they, or a single leader... heresy is only compatible with a theocracy or monarchy leadership... not a democracy.

the etherals are trying to lead their race on the path of life and not to revert back to "the terror as it is called. so farsight and his clave are not commiting heresy, they just chose not to follow the etherals lead, but are by no means an enemy of the tau.

as for whats going to hppen to sm... they dont deserve anything new to happen to them, they are beardy enough as it is, infact i say their armour save should go down to 4+ as to give other races a chance to do better against them

[NjalStormcall]

Are you insane? Marines have always been about good armor - everything about them is based around their superior armor. Their entire philosphy, even much of why they believe that they are the Sons of the Emperor because of the toughness of their armor. The only races with comparable armor are Necrons, and heaven knows how much fragile flesh they have.

[NightBringer]

flesh... necrons... what planet are you from? lol

seriously, thats the main reason why i hate the sm, becasue of their annoying 3+ armour save (tho against ork nobz in CC is 4+ coz of big choppas)

[NjalStormcall]

Grow 'arder boys, silly greenskins!

;)

Seriously, without armor, the SM would not be a viable race. Simply everything about us is due to the fact that most weapons will just bounce off our chest or knock us off our feet without causing any physical damage at all.

And Terminators..*grins* are Termies.

[NightBringer]

with what all S8 so they ignore marine armour save completely... nah i think all choppas should be big choppas so marines are always 4+ save agaisnt em in combat.

[TheWatcher]

(tho against ork nobz in CC is 4+ coz of big choppas)

In fact, it's that way with every Ork armed with a choppa...hence the plethora of choppas in my Ork army :)

Besides, having a 3+ armour save means we Orks get to annoy the hell out of the SM players be reducing it to 4+, which they just can't handle. And if their armour save was 4+, it would be on par with the Tau (which just doesn't sound right), choppas would reduce it to 5+ (again, doesn't sound right), Scouts would have 5+ saves, etc...none of which sounds right and would upset the 'balance' of the game mechanics. IMHO, its fine at 3+

[NightBringer]

no, choppas wouldn't reduce it to 5+ if u read the ruls for BIG choppas, the MAXIMUM save of any unit hit by it is 4+... so anything with a save better than 4+ (yes that inc termies) is 4+ against em, but thats only big choppas, not normal choppas

[NjalStormcall]

All Choppas reduce 3+ armor save to 4+. Big Choppas just give you +2 S or something in addition to that; I forgot.

[NightBringer]

no there are 3 types

choppas: standarad weapon of slugga boys... no effect
big choppas: weapon used by nobs and warboss's... maximum armour save of unit agaisnt it is 4+
UGE choppa: attack last, adds +2 S and allows no armour save

[TheWatcher]

no, choppas wouldn't reduce it to 5+ if u read the ruls for BIG choppas, the MAXIMUM save of any unit hit by it is 4+... so anything with a save better than 4+ (yes that inc termies) is 4+ against em, but thats only big choppas, not normal choppas

I'm theorising if the SM save was 4+ rather than 3+ :) Then, its plausible choppas would reduce saves to 5+ to stop Orks getting nowhere with the tough armour of the Marines. Although this may not be necessary as the SM already have the 'disadvantage' of a 4+ save...

And it doesn't matter if its an 'UGE choppa or a normal CHOPPA. They BOTH reduce saves of 2+ or 3+ to 4+. And Stormcall is right, the 'Uge Choppa ALSO adds +2 strength, but strikes last.


Edit: I don't know where you're getting this 'big choppa' business from, NightBringer. Not only do I virtually know Codex: Orks like the back of my hand (Orks being my first and primary army and all that), but I'm looking at it right now AND the army builder roster. Nothing about a Big Choppa. ALL choppas reduce saves.

[NightBringer]

its UGE CHOPPA not big choppa!

read the ork codex

[TheWatcher]

See the edit of my above post :)

Oh, and I forgot to mention. 'Uge choppas DON'T ignore saves.

[Lord Bishop]

now its orks on marines, next Choas? Eldar? Nids? *Spits*

[TheWatcher]

read the ork codex

Reading the Ork Codex right now. Do you want me to quote it word for word to prove my point? :p

Not one to take pleasure from getting childish, but you read the Ork Codex.

[NjalStormcall]

now its orks on marines, next Choas? Eldar? Nids? *Spits*

They rush headlong to die to the claw and blade of our Blood Claws and the fire of our Long Fang.

[WarpSpider]

Hehehehehe... Reduce SM armour save to 4+... Hahahahaha... Yeah ok :lol:

What are Space Marines without their 3+ armour save?
Answer: Screwed, due to the fact that no matter who they play against, they're outnumbered. The armour save is supposed to give them a chance to survive the concentrated fire of a larger enemy force.

[TheWatcher]

...or met head-to-head by the charge of the Blood Angels :)

I play both sides, y'see. That way you can't lost Marines vs Ork arguments.

[KingKupo]

what would be the use of power armour if carapace armour has the same protection(i'm not talking about the choppa bussiness)? These are supposed to be the elites of humanity, not storm troopers on 'roids and a better gun.

Plus your post is immensely selfish. All the SM players have to change their tactics just because you are annoyed with them? and what about other +3 save races? like CM and SoB to name some.

[Lord Bishop]

the HUGE guns they have and if things get to hot and they get killed then Imp can always blow up the planet, Dont see anything wrong with blowing up planets myself (lol)

[TheWatcher]

Pfft...everybody can blow up planets. And, for that matter, everybody has big guns.

But the King got it spot on. The save is to compensate for lack of numbers and expensive points-wise (same for Necrons).

[ionfish]

You don't think that the lack of numbers and high points cost reflect the fact that they have 3+ save, then? That sounds like a more likely causal chain to me.

[TheWatcher]

Okay, its a mutual thing then. High points cost and lack of numbers = good save = high points cost and lack of numbers :)

fluff-wise, marines are so rare they HAVE to have decent armour (read: save), or they'd lose more then they'd 'recruit'.

[NightBringer]

yeah but in an average TT game, how many people on the good side play sm and how amny field ig or SoB? its a 3:1 ratio, sm:other so they can t be that rare if soo many people play them. unless u collect the specialist chapters that have their own codex, sm in general are just beardy

[TheWatcher]

yeah but in an average TT game, how many people on the good side play sm and how amny field ig or SoB? its a 3:1 ratio, sm:other so they can t be that rare if soo many people play them. unless u collect the specialist chapters that have their own codex, sm in general are just beardy


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

OMG, that's one of the funniest things I think I've ever head. I've been playing warhammer for 6 or 7 years now and I've heard it all: 'wraithlords are cheesy', 'chaos are beardy', etc, but never have I heard SM are beardy! Thanks, NightBringer. You gave me a good laugh there...

SM beardy indeed...

Their being rare in the fluff has nothing to do with them being popular armies to collect. So what if 3 out of 4 players collect SM? In the context of warhammer, there's something of less than 1 SM for every 100 worlds in the Universe (or something along those lines. Can't quite remember the exact quote from the 40k rulebook). You don't give soldiers with those sorts of numbers flak armour ;). To pay off for the effort put into their training/development you give 'em the best you've got: ie power armour and tactical dreadnought armour.

[Captain Zog]

Each SM chapter is 1000 marines, there are thousands of chapters, giving millions of marines, but in comparison to the rest of the galaxy, the number is tiny, there are billions of guardsmen.


Actually millions of marines sounds wrong, i think i read somewhere it was less than that

[NightBringer]

yeah thats the fluff, but as u said "3/4 people collect sm" so if u have a 4v4 game goodvevil, your most likely gonna have 3-4 sm forces v mos probably 1-2orks, 1-2 csm, or necrons, or d eldar etc.... now, if each player is allowed the minnimum force (1HQ 2troops) thats 8X 10man squad with 3+ save v (going by all orks here) 8X 16man squads with no armour saves.... u work it out

[NjalStormcall]

I remember that by codex, there is something like exactly one million Marines in the universe. I personally think its a bit low, since even in fluff they appear to be engaged in battle very consistently and I imagine that they would have significant losses in any TT simulation of their battle, even when they are victorious.

Its also possible, however, that most of the Marines which are "killed" in TT, are rendered out of action rather than truly dead.

[NightBringer]

except when they are cleaved in half or explode into little peices, then they are dead

[DarthFelth]

in the TT they are not nearly as powerful as in fluff, marines are so popular partly because they come with the game and they are cheap to collect, i know alot of player, yes alot have mariens, but alot also have other armies, i used to ahve other armies, i had some orks, eldar, nids, guard, i still have a sisters of battle army which i think need fixing and repainting, marines are not beardy at all, the player behind the army is the beardy one, i mean just cos you can make a beardy combo, this stands for any army dosnt mean you have to use it ;)

I guess it just depends if you look for loop holes in the rules which i personaly dont, whats the point, it just removes from my pleasure in playing.

[Chasjs]

:hi:

i didnt find that sarcastic!!!!

anyways 'Yeah the Tau empire is tiny' by Captain Zog.

I want to tell the captain about what he thinks.

Tiny yes
Compact yes
The Imperium can't talk
Answear to the imperial gaurd:Pulse rifles
Answear to the power and terminator armour: Rail Guns
Answear to Alien Hunters: We'll just have to wait then!!!!!!

Anyway 1 Big Crsade got smashed in space an the other only got as far as the Dal'yth, Then Dal'tyhs tiny defence force that defend the planet(that sept isn't a fire caste sept) managed to draw the crusade to a stalemate, then the imperium ran off as far as the cud doing nothing at all. Thats not to mention the whole almost wipin the fleet into tiny peices of dirt and getting scared over an unarmed obital defence station. The men of the year 40'000 eh. they are dumb!!!!!
So why give the tau sum stick. Just because the r new and 1/25(if that) of the Tau Fire caste could hold the imperium to a stalemate (and if the reinforcements arrived the tau would have completely annilated the whole crusade!!!!! :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

[DarthFelth]

answer to tau, reaper auto cannons and combi-bolters, these are out dated weapons which are still very good at killing the troops, and termies can still servive rail guns. how well do tau hold up against termies that teleport in and then start wacking them lightning claws and thunder hammers ;)

[WarpSpider]

yeah thats the fluff, but as u said "3/4 people collect sm" so if u have a 4v4 game goodvevil, your most likely gonna have 3-4 sm forces v mos probably 1-2orks, 1-2 csm, or necrons, or d eldar etc.... now, if each player is allowed the minnimum force (1HQ 2troops) thats 8X 10man squad with 3+ save v (going by all orks here) 8X 16man squads with no armour saves.... u work it out

Yeah, but the SM are still going to have less units on the table per army than the others, thus representing their lack of numbers.

[NightBringer]

meh i'm probably jsut speaking form when GW stores had huge battles where u basically put what u wanted to use on the table, then they said what to take off... ahh the good old days

nowadays tho, its all 1v1 pointed battles, so i suppose u have a point about less models on field

[DarthFelth]

ahh those were the gold old days, remember taking my battle sisters down to GW, that and my really old thick and badly painted blood nagel termeis hehe

[WarpSpider]

Heh, I used to suck at painting too... Still do, that's why I switched from Orks to Black Templars... So much easier :)

[NightBringer]

i remember playing a game where the good side had about 6 tanks, 3 dev squads, and a guy stood on the table as a titan (lol), and all the evil side (my side) had was i think

ONE

chaos havoc with a missile launcher (which was promptly the first target on the good sides agenda... now if people think your sad for refusing to play a game like that, then i guess i'm sad, but they was horendously unfair and could never amount to any decent FUN game.

well back on topic... if that is the case that there are only few of them, i think that their points cost should go up (mwahahahaha)

[NjalStormcall]

Yes, increase our point cost by 4 and give us 2 W for all our regular troops :p

[Captain Zog]

Damn young whippersnappers putting me in my place

If i'd been commanding the Damocles Crusade that Tau would currently be my personal shoe shiners

[deggy]

"Personal Shoe Shiners"???

You would suffer the heretic to live? Blasphemer! If you've decided to cast your lot in with the heathen xenos, then you shall find the mercy of a quick death to be your eternal reward.

;) see? I can play in the Fluff too!
cheers!

[BlackTemplar]

:naughty: NO RP ON TEH FORUMZ!1

:nyah: Lookin' forward to having some neat 'Flufftastic' games once DoW's released. Maybe one with the devs, if I get lucky. :yippee:


Anyway, I've always had a rough time imagining the SMs are uber rare guys. I can follow it in books, etc, but the second I'm in a game and I start losing troops, it just sorta gets shot to hell.

I guess it's because of the vast number of marines I've lost in various games.

Heh heh, there would be no more BT's if that was the case, I'd have to repaint all my miniatures. :[

[|AXiN|]

I think marines are one of those races which will always be badly represented by TT, do to their overwhelming superiority to everything else in fluff. I mean, for a SM to be roughly as he is in the fluff, he'd need a stat line like 6/6/6/5/2/6/3/10/2+, which is just unworkable, because he's then need to cost about 80 points each. Want to see a marine as he truly is, play =][=. Otherwise, give it over to the compromise solution

[Pas De Charge]

IMO, If the Imperium were real and it DID fall, then whoever was left would just get wiped out by chaos. And the Tau are just hippies with some good guns!

[Dimension]

mmh hippies with guns...

actually, i think tau are some sort of utopian commies. can anyone else see that?

[Deathwing]

It's obvious. Everyone working for the higher good, without thinking of themselves as individual.

[Dimension]

you know, the way you put it it actually sounds like tau are striving to be like the tyranids :lol:

wait a minute...

[Deathwing]

In fact, the Tau have some things in common with the 'nids. Both races don't seem to care about the individual. The Tau are just on a higher step of "mechanical" evolution than the 'nids.

Okay, a great differece is, that the Tau have own thoughts, but they put their own feelings behind the work for the greater good.

*Please note: This is not meant as an offence to Tyranid and Tau Players! I think they are both pretty good races and worthy enemies*
Just crazy thoughts, you know...

[NightBringer]

actually they do care about the individual... yeah they all work for the greater good of their race but their policy is much like that if the british navy @they are all cogs of a working machine, every individual has his/her job and the lowest enginerr is as valued as the highest ranking officer@

[Deathwing]

Right, but every cog can be replaced if it doesn't work propperly ( spelled right? ).
So the individual doesn't get the attention it may needs.

[NightBringer]

no al i meant was that every individual is valued in the society, from the etherals to the refuse collectors (if they have them)

[HeraldofNurgle]

The Tau are most definately a bunch of Commies! Japanese Commies at that!

[Captain Zog]

Commies eh? That means they're empire will fall soon enough then

ALL TAU ARE EQUAL BUT THE ETHEREALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN EVERYONE ELSE!!!

[NightBringer]

and whats wrong with comunism? nothing in theory, but in practice it wont work... and the tau are not comunists, if they were there wouldn't be a water caste :P

[TheWatcher]

and whats wrong with comunism? nothing in theory, but in practice it wont work... and the tau are not comunists, if they were there wouldn't be a water caste :P

Why no water caste? If Tau were Communists, they wouldn't have diplomats? Eh?

And its safe to say the Tau are very left-wing. All working together for the greater good' just screams left-wing to me. I think, perhaps, they're not entirely Communist per se, but definately bordering on the extreme Socialist.

And in practice we've only had a few cases to work with ;)

[NightBringer]

actually its basically a more unified version of a democracy/comunist mix... they have their leaders (the etherals) they all work for the greater good of their own speices(comunist) and they like to include others and make them the same as them (western modern democracy)

[TheWatcher]

I wouldn't say "include others and make them the same as them" is a form of democracy. Under Western democracy (which is, in fact, a form of Liberalism) the people are individuals with freedom of choice, will and thought. Being made the same as others doesn't fit with this at all.

[BlackTemplar]

"Eeeeiii! For zah Motha-land!!"
-Common Tau battlecry.


I'm just waiting for some third world country to attempt to recreate the Tau governmental system for their own.

[NjalStormcall]

I guess they have an actually working form of communism, which might be possible since they're not human and therefore suffer less from the fragilities of human nature.

[Lord Bishop]

communists now, s0 if the tau are commies then who is the americans/NATO? marines? Eldar

[NjalStormcall]

Just because the Tau may have an enlightened communism doesn't mean there will be an opposite any more than because the Imperium embraces the equivalent of a powerful, medievalistic catholic church, there will be an opposite of Sacreans/Muslims.

[Lord Bishop]

O.k so Marines/Imperium (possibley) NATO/US/Catholic Church, Tau Commies, Sacreans/Muslims orks/Dark Eldar/ Eldar/ Nids/ Necrons, hmmm medieval in the 41st millenium (think thats how you spell it)

[NightBringer]

well i personally think that the impirium is some kind of nazi/vatican/islamic militant mix

[NjalStormcall]

well i personally think that the impirium is some kind of nazi/vatican/islamic militant mix

I think you've picked some innately conflicting descriptions.

[NightBringer]

du'h lol

the impirium is evil face it:P

nazi= xenophobic
vatican=highly religious and the atmosphere of the impirium
islamic militant= islam as a religion was founded by the sword, and so was the impirium, plus they want to make everyone the same, or die (preferable die)

[NjalStormcall]

The Imperium may seem like faceless evil, but realize that the Imperial way survives. Here is the major thing in both Catholism and 40k that you need to understand if you wish to embrace the Imperium:

Humanity is innately evil. Not that we do not have good people and glorious saints, but for most of us, the temptations and the pleasures of the flesh guide us. This is why we need a harsh ruleset to keep us in line, and the Imperium permits that.

The mass of people are weak, subject to the lowest common denominator. Only the few, the strong of both body and mind, aspire and succeed beyond this, and it is both natural and correct for the weak to follow their leader. The leader who is greater to them in ability, and by whose rule, all may survive.

Understand the Imperium is NOT founded on war. It is founded on survival. The Emperor Himself is a good God, no matter how you have seen Him; its only His priests and his speakers who have perverted His Word.

Understand that the Imperium does not make any pretenses to mercy or a good life. Mercy is a honor that must be earned. Until you have earned the right to live, you are only a leech, a parasite of the efforts of good men who keep the Imperium and humanity alive.

Understand that the Imperium represents humanity. If the Imperium commits excesses, it is only because humanity itself is vulnerable to commiting that. If the Imperium is the greatest power in the known universe, then realize that it is also a testament to the enduring spirit and strength of humanity.

[NightBringer]

the impirium could learn a lot form the tau lol

[NjalStormcall]

The Tau are just fortunate that they don't have to deal with the realities of the 40k universe. They don't have eternal wars with Orks, Black Crusades aiming at their heart, and psykers blowing their heads out, turning into a portal for daemons.

[NightBringer]

umm, well everyone has an eternal war agaisnt orks lol. and its humanities own fault for the black crusades.

[NjalStormcall]

umm, well everyone has an eternal war agaisnt orks lol.

Not if you have the fortune of having your world shielded by warp storms, preventing orks from travelling through.

[NightBringer]

ahem cough *read tau codex* cough

[KingKupo]

ummmm, Nightbringer, how can it be humanity's own fault that some freak in the eye of terror constantly trys to defeat them.

[NightBringer]

i mean its their fault in the first place, they should have jsut let chaos win then they wouldn't need to worry about it lol

[NjalStormcall]

Your precious Tau, along with the rest of the universe, would be doomed to an eternity of screams and slavery under the sadistic laughter and petty games of the Chaos Gods.

[NightBringer]

sounds cool to me:P

anyway i'm leaving this thread now, u can get back on topic

[HerrMorden]

The Damocles Crusade was a joke, and it consisted of what....a few dozen ships? And Even then, it kicked the asses of the Tau, until it had to turn back because a splinter fleet of the Tyranids was detected.

If the Imperium decided to launch a true Crusade( Like the Crusade that retook the Sabbat worlds, which had 10,000+ ships), then the Tau are well and truly fucked. They would be crushed like ants.

[NightBringer]

Your precious Tau, along with the rest of the universe, would be doomed to an eternity of screams and slavery under the sadistic laughter and petty games of the Chaos Gods.


not if the C'tan dispatch the chaos gods first:P

they wouldn't have called it a crusade if it was that small! and thats jsut your excuse for not getting past Dly'ath (sp) where the tau stopped u in your tracks! the only reason u even got that far into the empire was coz you caught them off guard :P

[TheWatcher]

Hmm...news just in. Apparently Space Marines are to recieve Dreadnoughts with heavy weapons on both arms. Models look nice:

http://www.maelstromcrew.net/forum/main/viewtopic.php?t=317

[HerrMorden]

Nightbringer-Not all crusades are created equal.

Codex Tau states that the Damocles Fleet was based around a dozen capital ships,5 provisional companies of Space Marines(500 marines), and 19 Regiments(around 57 thousand men) of Imperial Guard.

The Sabbat Worlds Crusade consisted of-10,000+ ships,2000 regiments of Guard,3 Chapters of Space Marines,half a million tanks of all types, and 2 Titan Legions.

And that was nothing compared to the might the Imperium brought to bear during the 13th Black Crusade. Crap, the entire Tau empire could fit inside one of the contested sectors of the 13th BC!

Face it, the Tau "Empire" is screwed if the IoM ever gets the chance to go after it.

[KingKupo]

I doubt the empire will use such a great force for the Tau. These were emergencys that THREATENED the empire. and i mean they were a MAJOR threat. Do you think the empire is gonna send 3 space marine chapters for the destruction of a alien empire of around 57 worlds?

Plus the Tau aren't wussys when it comes to warfare, Take the Koloth gorge massacre(read in WD262).

[NightBringer]

pah, titans... mantas can take them out any day:P and mantas can fly too