What's the beef between the Dark Angels and Space Wolves all about ?

[BeeZer]

I was just wondering why do the Dark Angels and Space Wolves dislike each other? Who did what ? Why ?

[Chaos Lord]

apparently the primarches have somthing to do with it...
from what ive heard there was one battle in which the DAs wanted to be as quietly as possible with few casulties.
but russ wanted to rust go rambo style and shot the hell out of any thing that moves.
so a big fight broke out between them when the battle was over,
thats what i know any way...

[Hellscream]

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/primarch_leman_russ.shtml

read that, it says somewhere in there.

[MacBeth]

grab a drink this could take awhile

it started before the heresy,and all legions were put togther in two's to make taking systems easier,so the dark angels and space wolves were teamed up.and in the dulan system there was this tyrant named durath,who was sacrificing thousands of imperial priests,then insulted russ by calling him the emperors lap dog and he would feed him to his pet grox,russ swore he would cut duraths head from his shoulders,and demanded that jonson let him lead the attack,jonson who had scouted the fortress defenses for days and also wished himself the honour refused russ's demand.that night the lion with some squads hid in the cover of night,waiting for dawn.when russ charged the gates he found himself at the gates with some artillerry cannons staring down at him,but were destoryed by the lions devastators squads,russ watched as his brother slay durath on the walls,when the chaos forces saw that there leader was slain they went into a panic,by this time the wolves had just entered the fortress,in there anger they went threw the fleeing forces of chaos,either sides for them was doomed,for they could run into the dark angels or the wolves. after the battle russ stormed into the fortress to where the lion was planning the next campagin,russ struk the lion,from which they fought each other for a day and a night,neither could beat each other,for russ was stronger the lion was faster.they then stoped fighting both tired,russ started to laugh,seeing the humour in what had just happened,the lion on the other hand had saw what russ did was treacherous and struck him over the head,knocking him out,jonson then saw that his honour was restored.when russ awoke a day later he found that the dark angels left for the next battle,he then swore he would get his honour back.

its long but you asked,ill tell you some more later.

[BeeZer]

Thank you for the info MacBeth. I'd love to hear the rest of it.

**Couple Quick Questions Off Topic**

So if you were going to build an army of either Dark Angels or Space Wolves which would you recommend?

Has anybody here heard of this Army Builder program ? Do you or anybody else use it ?
Is it any good ?

**End of off topic questions**

[MetalMilitia]

I would recommend whatever you would rather do, if you like shooting and a dark and secretive storyline Dark Angels are the way to go. If you want to charge across the board and fight with chainswords then play Space Wolves. I actually used to play DA but quit them because they were TOO BORING TO PAINT. Space wolves look really fun to paint.

I dont know much about it but from what ive seen Army Builder looks very good.

[MacBeth]

it depends on what you like,a shooty army or a close combat army,dark angels are one of the best shooty space marines,if you have a vet sgt,or a character that makes the entire army stubborn(azreal) the marines will never run from anything,its a blessing and a curse,and the intractable rule is another great shooty rule,if you fail a leadership test your marines wont run but just stand there,you also get to shoot.then yo can if you wish field a entire deathwing army(terminators) and a enitre ravenwing army(fast attack). and for some reason we can have plasma cannons for the same amount of points as las cannons or some thin like that.
the space wolves I know less about,mostly fluff.


more fluff.the lion and russ came to blows a couple more times.when the angels and wolves got word of the heresy of horus they rushed to terra as fast as possible. but on the way they came across a drop pod ir somethin with a person inside,the man said somethin about some tyrant opressin the people and russ wished to help them,the lion wanted to leave for terra,they started to fight again. a dark angel chaplain saw the man that came from the drop pod started to grin and started to mutate into somethin.the two primarchs stoped fighting when they saw the man fall to the ground headless,russ seeing that this evil cant go unchecked wanted to purge the planet of chaos.this planet was known for makin much of the weapons and tanks the empire used,so the lion joined in and destroyed the chaos there,the people praised russ and made the leman russ tank. they then traveled to terra. they were too late to save the emperor and after the battle the lion stormed into the palace to see his father broken,he flew into a rage and stormed off to find russ.russ hearing the news and tired from the battle, fell to the ground when the lion told him to draw his weapon,he told jonson to kill him if he must,the lion rasied his blade and stabbed his lion sword and punctured the first heart and before he hit the second,jonson regained his sanity and moved his blade before he killed russ. while russ was healing the lion stayed by his side,and the two made a pact that no primarch was to fight each other again. after this the lion and russ returned to there homes,where the dark angels shameful past would begin and russ would leave the fang until the wolftime. the lion now sleeps in the deepest part of the rock until the emperor needs him. the two chapters hold honour duels everytime they meet,someone said that the two chapters dont do that anymore,im not sure on that though. well thats what happened to the two chapters.

[Deathwing]

Mac Beth is absolutely right in what he wrote.

But the lst information I got is, that the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves still hold this duels.

This can also be read in the comic Deathwatch. Here Marines from the Space Wolves and Dark Angels are together in one Kill Team. They actually don't fight each other in the comic, but they often talk about a certain thing they have to do. And I think everyboby ( at least now ) knows what they mean.

[MacBeth]

the wolves and angels may be rivals,doesant mean they cant fight toghter.and in the death watch they are there to kill aliens not to bicker on old grudges.remember every marine is a brother.

[FeloniousPunk]

Thank you for the info MacBeth. I'd love to hear the rest of it.

**Couple Quick Questions Off Topic**

So if you were going to build an army of either Dark Angels or Space Wolves which would you recommend?

Has anybody here heard of this Army Builder program ? Do you or anybody else use it ?
Is it any good ?

**End of off topic questions**

It all depends on your personal preference, they're both powerful and IMHO really cool chapters, though IMHO the Dark Angels are more cool than the Space Wolves, so that's what I would go with. ;)

Army Builder is outstanding. I use it, everyone I know who plays 40k (and WFB) uses it. You can calculate armies on the fly, including changing around all the different options, it checks whether your picks are legal or not, prints everything out with all the stats and special rules so you don't have to keep reaching for the codex.

[Hive]

I always liked the Imperial Fist. What happened to them? All i know is they defended the Emporer during the Horus battles. They still around?

[NjalStormcall]

Yeah, Black Templars are Imp. Fists.

[Cailet]

The Imperial Fists do have an Index Astartes army list from WD 263 (I think, it was about the start of the Albion campaign). They wouldn't disband because they are first founding, the Psychos went off to form the Templars and the ones more amenable to change (the Codex Astartes was rejected by the Fists) became the Crimson Hands.

[Hive]

WHY the need to change name tho?

[Cailet]

They didn't, the original chapter exists as the Imperial Fists. The split-offs needed to distance themselves from the Legion in order to avoid outright war with the other Chapters.

[Civik]

They still hold the challenges... two battle brothers go at it and one usually comes out alive. After that, they can fight together.

Russ' puppies are still sore that the Lion suckerpunched their primarch and knocked him silly. :)

[Cailet]

Well Russ did KO Jonson back so it seems to be more a tradition than debt of honour. They all see it that way though so it doesn't really matter

[MacBeth]

russ sucker punched him first,the lion repaid the favour.
the two famous chapters that came from the fists were the black templars and the crismon fists.
and when the duel happens,im sure its just a fist fight,so I doubt an die from it.
if you want to know about the Imperial fists make a fists thread and I put down what I know.

[Lord Johan]

Whats army builder where can i get a link or somtin im constantly fixing up my chaos army to be able to fight me bros weak little imperial gaurd army. And i was wanting to see if this is faster

[FeloniousPunk]

Whats army builder where can i get a link or somtin im constantly fixing up my chaos army to be able to fight me bros weak little imperial gaurd army. And i was wanting to see if this is faster

Go here. (http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=army_builder)

[Albrek]

Armybuilder is a marvelous program, I wouldnt use anything else
though dont get the wrong idea, to use army builder without a codex by your side can be difficult and confusing, though it isnt impossible.
Don't even bother asking GW employees what they think of army builder, they seem to be intricately trained to despise Army Builder and its printouts from my experience, despite the fact it has extreme few flaws

[Ferretarmour]

Two Words:

Cyp-her

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Two Words:

Cyp-her

The Dark Angels will get him eventually.

As what people said about shooty vs close combat, I have a massive Dark Angels army but with 20 assualt marines (10 of whom are tailored for pure hand to hand) and 14 Terminators, 5 of whom are pure hand to hand.

So i've got it somewhat more balanced.

[Trooper Elijis]

The rivalry between the DA and SW is that Johnson and Russ were sent to another battlefield in which Russ was in control of the forces and destroy the Chaos forces on the planet. Russ wanted to wait for daybreak to attack but Johnson who was a gloryhound attacked that night and destoryed the fort before the Sons of Russ could get there. This angered Russ and he began a fight between the two chapters. The Emperor had the two Primarchs fight in a "first blood" duel in which Russ lost by getting stabbed in the heart by Lion. The rivalry ended as long as they were alive, but some how now the rivalry has come back up. This is the history of it, I don't know the future of it, but I know that in battle Space Wolves hit on a 3+ against the DA because of the rivalry the same for the DA. P.S. The Thousand Sons benifit from this same rule.

[Warcrier]

You got the story of the duel between the lion and the wolf a bit wrong actually...
Heres how it goes,
The story about Durant was true, Russ wanted to rush in and attack, but Lion'el had planned his attack for too long and didnt want Russ to ruin it.
They quarreled and finally they ended up fighting,
they wrestled for one day and one night and neither of them could best the other, but after that day had ended, Russ stood up and began laughing, Thats when Lion'el took advantage and knocked him out cold with a punch.
When Russ awoke the DA's had already left the planet.
So since that day whenever the Wolves and DA's meet one is called from each side to reenact that wrestling match...
You got the duel story mixed up with the whole story of how Caliban was destroyed...

[Strybjorn]

I thought that the fued was settled during the Eye of Terror campaign. If I remember right, Logan Grimnar and Azrael both decided to drop the fued and fight chaos. Then both the Dark Angels and Space Wolves assaulted a planet and took it in damn near record time. That's what I thought.


:duck: