Tau Hostile or Protective?

[Tau Commander]

The Tau are considered to be able to play any race.

Is that really fare? I think the Tau should at least hav an allie besides the kroot.

[Davor]

Why? None of the other races really have allies... Heck, Between the Kroot & the Human IG forces that Tau can use, I'd say they have the most diverse army of any race.

[Tau Commander]

well IG hav the space marine, witch hunters, daemon hunters,... whilst the tau phisically battle any1 there is i mean in a game who are u gonna ally with?

[BillyBob]

well IG hav the space marine, witch hunters, daemon hunters,... whilst the tau phisically battle any1 there is i mean in a game who are u gonna ally with?
Space Marines can't be fielded by a guard player as allies. It make sense that Daemonhunters and Witch hunters can ally with guard or marines because they are part of the inquisition. All the alien races are kinda at eachothers throats, so it kinda makes sense that the Tau don't have any allies, since there are no other variants of tau (other than the one that's outlined in your codex, but they are shunned by the other Tau). Their downfall is a lack of close combat cabability, but they have some nice ranged stuff! they're almost like guard, where the idea is to shoot the thing so ya don't have to stab it.. cuz it'll stab you first!
A guardsman with a pulse rifle is a dangerous thing man! get some catachans and give 'em rifles! :sniper:

[Tau Commander]

Space Marines can't be fielded by a guard player as allies. It make sense that Daemonhunters and Witch hunters can ally with guard or marines because they are part of the inquisition. All the alien races are kinda at eachothers throats, so it kinda makes sense that the Tau don't have any allies, since there are no other variants of tau (other than the one that's outlined in your codex, but they are shunned by the other Tau). Their downfall is a lack of close combat cabability, but they have some nice ranged stuff! they're almost like guard, where the idea is to shoot the thing so ya don't have to stab it.. cuz it'll stab you first!
A guardsman with a pulse rifle is a dangerous thing man! get some catachans and give 'em rifles! :sniper:
well in tournies u can only ally with another tau army wich wuld be ver ybad if u went up on chaos or orc the tau need an allie besides the kroot for closes combat

[rocket_Magnet]

who are necrons allied with?
who are dark eldar allied with?

the tau are defensive mind, they do not go looking for trouble, they wish to expand their empire and normally colonise unihabited worlds, they only protect from attack. Your notion they should have more allies doesnt work, they have the kroot and some ig, and your name doesnt inspire me to think you're thinking about all possible sides of the argument :)

the tournament you speak of is correct, but anything in codex tau, or chapter approved can be used, and the entire point of a tau army is firepower not to get mobbed by orks, chaos, or nids in close combat, if this keeps hapenning to you, you need to think about your strategies ingame :)

[BillyBob]

well in tournies u can only ally with another tau army wich wuld be ver ybad if u went up on chaos or orc the tau need an allie besides the kroot for closes combat
That's lame.. but GW is kinda strict on their tournies (if you are going to GW tournies. :banned: ) I'd find it perfectly acceptable to make up some fluff that you found a lost guardsman regiment and took them in so they're now loyal to you. Guard are your only viable ally, since most other races are very set in their beliefs. So find someone who're open minded and wants to play guard, and tell them to do a tau/IG hybrid army, where only the color scheme is Tau, but eveyrhting else is IG.. how could it be disputed?
You could never get the fluff to ally with any form of the Inquisition, Eldar, Orks, Necrons or Marines (stupid Fire Warrior Game). Maybe an ex-communicate Marine Legon (not loyal to the Imperium or Chaos).. still, that'd be a far fetch

[Stormblade]

Well in the firewarior game it was only a temporary alliance, better to fight a common enemy for the time being before ripping out the other sides throuts at a later date... and Tau do have a semi ally... eldar. Eldrad apparently saw something of the early eldar in the tau and even helped them a bit I think, I think that the eldar maybe responsible for giving the tau the technological jumpstart that let them take control of their planet and start researching 'better' technology.

[evilbisquit_51]

:smash:
I think the Firewarrior game was a piece of crap

Double Post

the plot was poorly put together and the implication that a FIREWARRIOR could kick an entire squad of SPACE MARINES collective asses is laughable at best

[Stormblade]

Yeah the firewarior game was crap, very poor plot and weird execution. And besides he wasnt just any old firewarior, he was uber Kais :wtf2:
::EDIT:: No I didnt read the book but it was apparently much better than the game...

[evilbisquit_51]

did u read the book?

[Tau Commander]

Wat book are u talking about??
The eldar couldn't of givin the Tau the technoligy the Tau gained this strange advance during warp storms after the first imperial ship scanned the planet and further storms later

[Stormblade]

The Firewarior book by Black Library... and couldn't have is a pretty strong statement, you got any proof? The eldar webway would provide a pretty good way for Eldar to move around during warp storms, they dont travel through the warp like human tech does...

[Sir Guppy]

tau are an aggressive race bent on dominating the galaxy, the subdue races of lesser power and force them in to the collective tau race, they piss most races off by going up to them and saying we want your planet join us or die. tau dont need more allies, the kroot are fine.

[Lord_Maccarage]

according to the book killteam, the tau have learned from the eldar. its talking about learning from the eldars cunning and manipulation, but it does imply a degree of cooperation between tau and eldar, possibly only so the eldar could have more puppets to sacrifice for their own ends...
and the fire warrior book was quite good, it gives the reason why kais is uber (i never finished the game so i dont know if its revealed in there)

[rocket_Magnet]

tau are an aggressive race bent on dominating the galaxy, the subdue races of lesser power and force them in to the collective tau race, they piss most races off by going up to them and saying we want your planet join us or die. tau dont need more allies, the kroot are fine.

guppy have you even read the tau codex?
they are incredibly peaceful and ASK the planet in question whether they want to join for the greater good.
if the answer they recieve is no they clear off and leave them alone.

and tau commander, you should be inclined with black library novel history and fluff for a race than the codex, the novels are much more recent and normally tell you a lot fluff wise the codes doesnt

[chocolate]

SPOILER FOR FIREWARRIOR BOOK: Ok, I hated the Firewarrior game as much as everyone else, but the book is good, and as was said it explained why Kais was so damn powerful. So you don't have to go out and buy it (well, I doubt anybody cares that much), it was because Kais was being subconciuosly (REALLY didn't spell that right) posessed by a demon, who was giving him faster reflexes, "spider sense" for lack of a better phrase, bloodlust, and some other stuff.

[rocket_Magnet]

lol yet the tau are classed as psychically impotent, hence why they cant be tainted by chaos, oh well :)

[chocolate]

Ahhh... but more is revealed :bandit: ! You see, the rejection of him by his father (who was supposed to be a great hero) created the gap through which the demon came. But yeah, other then that I really enjoyed the book. Ciaphas Cain series is still the best though. Or at least until I read a Dan Abnett book/

[Sir Guppy]

guppy have you even read the tau codex?
they are incredibly peaceful and ASK the planet in question whether they want to join for the greater good.
if the answer they recieve is no they clear off and leave them alone.

and tau commander, you should be inclined with black library novel history and fluff for a race than the codex, the novels are much more recent and normally tell you a lot fluff wise the codes doesnt

lol i really hate the tau, so i tend to spread melicous rumor about them, ill read the codex and get back to you. i aint read it in a while.

[Stormblade]

they are incredibly peaceful and ASK the planet in question whether they want to join for the greater good.
if the answer they recieve is no they clear off and leave them alone.
What are you sure you read that right? They ask if the inhabitants would like to join the greeater good but I dont think they clear out if they say no... what page of the codex is this on then?

[Ark_Z]

I gotta agree with stormblade. Before I read on this forum that they peacefully left, the only thing I heard was that they tried to force them to join them with their army. :meh:

[Kaldaris]

I think Firewarrior(Excellent book) was a great comeback for the way the novel Killteam made the Tau look like imbeciles. If one Space Marine can take out three XV8 Crisis Battlesuits(Chances of that happening are Insignificant and dropping) then Kais certainly can take out a squad of Space Marines. The Tau do Indeed have allies such as the Demiurg,Niccasar,kroot and probably more. If you guys are talking about the way the Tau discovered that crashed ship which gave them warp capabilities was definately not Eldar since they utilise the Web way.

[Sir Guppy]

After reading the Tau codex I am now more sure than ever of my original view that the Tau are an expansionist, hostile race, who have somehow got the idea that the galaxy is theirs for the taking and who are bent on taking over the galaxy. To support my argument I have collected several quotes from the Tau Codex

The Tau had claimed this world as their own. Its use had been decided, its first colonists already allocated from members of the Fio caste. It was as indisputable as a sunrise. The Gue'la already had an outpost on this world and Kais was in the process of removing them. The Etherals had decreed this...

In this short story the Tau are attacking Imperial positions on an Imperial planet. In this first quote we can already see evidence of the Tau idea that they can take anything this like. What gives the Etherals of the Tau the right to decided what should happen to a planet controlled by the Imperium. The Imperium already claimed this planet with their outpost, and when they didnt want to give it up the Tau have come to take it by force. So the idea that the Tau are a peaceful race, who ask people to join them is pure fiction. The Imperium didnt want to give up this planet but the Tau will take it anyway.

It was unfortunate that they would die, but to stand in the way of the Taus destiny was to invite death.

In this quote we again see evidence of the Tau line of thinking that the galaxy is theirs to take, from whoever they want to take it from. While reading this source one might feel that the Tau does not want to kill the enemy as he says "It was unfortunate that they would die" but his actions of attacking them was cause theirs deaths, their view that this planet is theirs is causing these deaths. So not only are the Tau expansionist and hostile, they are also hypocrits and fools for not realising the consquences of their actions.

With such rapid expansion of their empire it was only a matter of time until Tau Colony ships entered Imperial Space. System defence ships stationed at Devlan in the Ultima Segmentum detected the arrival of an alien vessel which did not half at the desiganted checkpoints, and was immediately attacked

(The colony ship was destroyed by the Imperial Navy)

Now here we can see how a Tau colony ship just wanders into Imperial doing whatever the hell it likes, ignoring proper checkpoints and guidelines, again evidence of the Taus idea that the galaxy is theirs.

Members of the Water Caste caste had established trade agreement with Imperial worlds on the frontier and exchanges of goods and technology were common.

Further less violent contanct was made by rouge traders and merchants

Here we can see how the Tau are trying to destablise Imperial planets and cause trouble. They should have worked out when the colony ship was destroyed that they were not wanted, but instead they pushed it by making illegal trade agreements with rouge traders away from the eye of Imperial authoirites. So not only are the Tau expansionist, hostile, hypocrits and fools, they are also devious by going behind the proper Authorites when they knew that they were not wanted.

In what was supposed to be his last assignment Aun'shi led a Tau Colony force to a world named Hel'tyr, the newest world in the expanding Tau empire. Infested by Feral Orks

So not only do the Tau steal Imperial worlds they steal those of the Orks as well. It is obvious that the Orks did want Tau intergration, but instead the Tau decided to take the world by force, further evidence damning the idea that "Tau leave worlds alone who want to be left alone"


News of the victory soon reached the Etherals on Tau and rather then allow Aun'shi to spend his remaining years on Au'taal, it was decreed that he lead fresh expeditions to expand the Tau empire. There would be no peaceful retirement for Aun'shi.

Again we see how the Tau expansion is hostile. By the way readers Aun'shi is a Tau Etheral, one of the leader caste and what is he? a Warrior. Now what does that tell you about the Tau Empire.

I will summarise my argument with my closing statement.

As we can all see, my evidence shows that he Tau are an agreesive race, a hateful race, an expansionist race, they seem to have the idea that the galaxy is theirs, theres leaders are warriors. The Tau are a war mongering race who care for little else than the power for the Tau, they ask people to join them, but those who dont are killed, and the survivors enlisted into the Tau empire. Are these the actions of a peaceful race?

I think not.

The prosecution rests its case.

Sir Guppy

[chocolate]

Ehhh... is it just me, or does having the Imperium shoot down a Tau colony ship just show that they are heartless bastards? Orks hate everyone and everything, its good that they were cleansed from the planet.

[KingKupo]

It was unfortunate that they would die, but to stand in the way of the Taus destiny was to invite death.


In this quote we again see evidence of the Tau line of thinking that the galaxy is theirs to take, from whoever they want to take it from. While reading this source one might feel that the Tau does not want to kill the enemy as he says "It was unfortunate that they would die" but his actions of attacking them was cause theirs deaths, their view that this planet is theirs is causing these deaths. So not only are the Tau expansionist and hostile, they are also hypocrits and fools for not realising the consquences of their actions

I'm pretty sure The tau know that if they shoot someone in the head he will die. The Tau had given them a chance to join them, wich a race like the imperium would rarely or not at all do. The Tau also let survivors live and become part of their empire. This alone makes them far more "good" than most races.

With such rapid expansion of their empire it was only a matter of time until Tau Colony ships entered Imperial Space. System defence ships stationed at Devlan in the Ultima Segmentum detected the arrival of an alien vessel which did not half at the desiganted checkpoints, and was immediately attacked


(The colony ship was destroyed by the Imperial Navy)

Now here we can see how a Tau colony ship just wanders into Imperial doing whatever the hell it likes, ignoring proper checkpoints and guidelines, again evidence of the Taus idea that the galaxy is theirs.

Ehm, the empirium has a policy against xenos wich goes like: "shoot first, disect later" and i doubt that even if they followed some guidelines, they would not been killed. Also the Tau have another language than Imperials and wouldn't understand them in the first place. I'd also like to mention that almost every race acts like this.

Would the Orks/CSM/eldar stop at any checkpoints?

In what was supposed to be his last assignment Aun'shi led a Tau Colony force to a world named Hel'tyr, the newest world in the expanding Tau empire. Infested by Feral Orks


So not only do the Tau steal Imperial worlds they steal those of the Orks as well. It is obvious that the Orks did want Tau intergration, but instead the Tau decided to take the world by force, further evidence damning the idea that "Tau leave worlds alone who want to be left alone"

Orks aren't good at making friends, they didn't join the tau. With newest world, they meant one that was scheduled for colonization. The Tau fought of a ork waagh and these could be survivors of that waagh who became feral. And can you really believe that? orks joining another race's empirium?


News of the victory soon reached the Etherals on Tau and rather then allow Aun'shi to spend his remaining years on Au'taal, it was decreed that he lead fresh expeditions to expand the Tau empire. There would be no peaceful retirement for Aun'shi.


Again we see how the Tau expansion is hostile. By the way readers Aun'shi is a Tau Etheral, one of the leader caste and what is he? a Warrior. Now what does that tell you about the Tau Empire.

With expeditions they probably meant expeditions to find more suitable worlds for colonization. the tau prefer not to fight but if they have to fight, they won't hesitate. And it is always handy if that leader is also veteran of a war

As we can all see, my evidence shows that he Tau are an agreesive race, a hateful race, an expansionist race, they seem to have the idea that the galaxy is theirs, theres leaders are warriors. The Tau are a war mongering race who care for little else than the power for the Tau, they ask people to join them, but those who dont are killed, and the survivors enlisted into the Tau empire. Are these the actions of a peaceful race?

The tau are expansionists and a bit arrogant(but isn't each race a tad arrogant?). but they also give a chance for people to join their empire. They prefer peacefull solutions but won't hesitate to go to war against a race. They also have far more "friends" than most races(altough i don't trust those skinnies)

The Tau race has flaws, but it are our flaws and our strengths wich defines us, not only our flaws or only our strengths.

[Sir Guppy]

Ehhh... is it just me, or does having the Imperium shoot down a Tau colony ship just show that they are heartless bastards? Orks hate everyone and everything, its good that they were cleansed from the planet.


colony ships have weapons :duck: , and anyway we are not discussing the imperium here, there is no dought in my mind that the imperium are also a race of expansionists and are openly aggressive towards, but we are discussing the tau.

I'm pretty sure The tau know that if they shoot someone in the head he will die. The Tau had given them a chance to join them, wich a race like the imperium would rarely or not at all do. The Tau also let survivors live and become part of their empire. This alone makes them far more "good" than most races.

Yes but why should they have to join the Tau empire? they are human, and should be part of a human empire, the imperium, it was an imperial planet.

Ehm, the empirium has a policy against xenos wich goes like: "shoot first, disect later" and i doubt that even if they followed some guidelines, they would not been killed. Also the Tau have another language than Imperials and wouldn't understand them in the first place. I'd also like to mention that almost every race acts like this.

Would the Orks/CSM/eldar stop at any checkpoints?

Again we are talking about the Tau not the actions of others races. The only reason the Tau came into conflict with the imperium is becasue they go around colonizing imperial planets.

Orks aren't good at making friends, they didn't join the tau. With newest world, they meant one that was scheduled for colonization. The Tau fought of a ork waagh and these could be survivors of that waagh who became feral. And can you really believe that? orks joining another race's empirium?

Acutally the orks were on the planet before the Tau arrived, the Tau are the invaders here, they are the aggressors, not the feral orks. Orks at any stage are rather feral and uncultured. in this incident, the tau a much more advanced race, a "peaceful race" and what do they do go and attack less advanced races and slaughter them in the thousands. like the defencless feral orks of FioVash.

The tau are expansionists and a bit arrogant(but isn't each race a tad arrogant?). but they also give a chance for people to join their empire. They prefer peacefull solutions but won't hesitate to go to war against a race. They also have far more "friends" than most races(altough i don't trust those skinnies)

The Tau give other races little chance, why cant smaller undefended races govern themselves by the laws and ideals laid down in their own consitution in their own language, rather than have a foreign set of laws and ideals for the people of a planet may have no understanding forced upon them? its hardly a choice. join us or die.

What Im trying to do here is point out to people that the Tau arnt the lovely, peaceful race which many people see them as. but rather an aggressive domintating as they actually are.

[peer]

SirGuppy and KingKupo, please read this (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=5710), specifically the part on quoting people.

[Sir Guppy]

sorry just easier to respond like that. also why do you seem to lock like almost every thread the moment is gets even a tiny bit off topic or sumthink like that. its annoying, half the threads you lock i still want to reply in.

[philgreg]

It says in codex tau that they have got lots of smaller races in their empire apart from Kroot. So why dont they make a miniatures range for these, write rules and allow diversity in the Tau amy more.n It makes sense that the tau would be more diversee than Space marines and IG cos they just go xenocidal and erase alien life from planets that they are living on

[Ramrod]

sirguppy, i think it is safe to say that although the tau might not be 'peaceful' (as you have clearly presented does not appear to be the case), they are more peaceful than anyone else in 40k. i think their actions of sending out colony ships is not aggression, but foolhardy optimism and stupidity stemming from their naivety. they think they will be welcome, or that their ships will be allowed to travel unhindered. they are way too hopeful to survive in the galaxy of the 41st millenium.

it is a commonly known fact that the tau believe everybody is basically good by default (in the firewarrior book, it was explained that they even sent emmissaries to a tyranid invasion force to negotiaite peace. needless to say they were torn to ribbons).

they are definitely expansionist, but i do believe they'd rather have races with them than against them. nobody else in the entire galaxy thinks like that, other than chaos (but chaos wants control).

and i think that the fact that the tau do attack when their progress is blocked by someone (your imperial outpost and the feral orks), is more them not taking shit from anyone rather than them being a warmongering race. i imagine they would have preferred to be able to integrate the humans and (if it were even possible, which it isn't) the orks.


i play tau, and the reason i play them is because they are more peaceful. they're the hippies of space. and i liked that when i first read about them (i also play IG because the imperium is the exact opposite: an evil xenophobic fascist regime, and i liked that too. duality of man...).

[Sir Guppy]

well im just saying for a race that claims to peaceful they tend ot invade a lot of planets, not exactly peaceful, i dont see how you can be expansionist and peaceful, being expansionist leads to war, peaceful races try to avoid war, also i well know that they are less aggressive than most races, well all races, even the eldar get really nasty sometimes.

i also remember the fluff about emissaries being sent to the nids, i found it quite funny when the nids ripped em apart. and yes there are naivety probaly does link to the fact that they wander round the unvervise trying to be friends with anyone, then being suprised when they get attacked.

[Triceron]

You have to take in note that the Tau work in a Caste system, and they can live in war and peace at the same time, being that the Fire Caste fights the wars while the other three live at peace. Not all Tau are warriors, only the Fire Caste is regarded as the warriors, with the occasional Ethereal and Water Caste ambassadors accompanying them.

As for their method of expansion, sure it might seem naive to ask a race to "Join or die", but it's backfluff. Right now all you see are Kroot and Human auxillery units. Soon enough you'll see more alien mercenaries Tau will be able to field, then you'll see how incorporating the enemy into your army can be a good thing.

If the Tau Empire only consisted of Tau, they wouldn't be a match for any other race, but the fact that they bolster their own forces with others is what makes them strong.

[Ramrod]

yeah, can't wait for more non-tau units allowed in the tau army :D. thank the emperor for chapter approved. i want eldar units!

[Kaldaris]

The Niccasar could be the Tau's answer to lack of psykers, oh and Triceron I love your signatures Keep up the good work :D and where is your Avatar picture from?

[Sir Guppy]

Yeah!!!

this must be spam.

personally i cant see eldar being part of the tau empire, i can see eldar units in an allied tau army, or eldar pirates working with the tau, but i dont think they would actually be part of the tau empire itself.

races i could imagine being part of the tau empire would be like the demigrum (spelling?) you can get their space ships in gothic. i dont know why but i can also see orks being part of a tau empire, very feral orks who have grown up with the tau from birth. but its not likely, any races which may be part of the tau empire in chapter approved are ones that were probaly mentioned in backfluff, or new ones just made up on the spur of the moment.

[Ark_Z]

[QUOTE=Roddy666]
it is a commonly known fact that the tau believe everybody is basically good by default (in the firewarrior book, it was explained that they even sent emmissaries to a tyranid invasion force to negotiaite peace. needless to say they were torn to ribbons).

they are definitely expansionist, but i do believe they'd rather have races with them than against them. nobody else in the entire galaxy thinks like that, other than chaos (but chaos wants control).

First I gotta say that Tau don't go around trying to be peaceful. Who would shoot people in the head for not joining them. There's most likely a hidden agenda, like trying to get allied with everyone and steal their technology, and then kill 'em off. Any smart race would not go up against the 'Nids and try to negotiate. The Tau were most likely trying to lure them into giving away all the biological secrets on the disection table, and making new bio-weapons. I am most likely wrong, but in every race in 40k there's some secret that's so obvious it's not. Makes some sence, no?

Double Post

Other main races shouldn't be added to the tau army, it's like adding a few pieces from all the armies and adding "mutated/posessed" at the front to make them chaos.
Maybe some little thing like a Tau version Ripper Swarm, but nothing like what some are saying. (Eldar Would Mentally Crush The Tau Anyway, Orcs Would Try To Shoot 'Em All To Death, 'Nids Would Eat Them As A Snack, And Chaos Would Posess Them, Etc.)

[Ramrod]

if what you just said is the "secret thats so obvious its not", i'm gonna have to ask for proof. there is no place in either the tau codex or fire warrior that shows anything that you have said might be correct.

in fact, only sirguppy has put forth a convincing argument against the tau being peaceful. and none of his argument had to do with contradicting fluff (which is The Truth in 40k and cannot be contradicted except by GW itself) the way yours does, simply interpreting tau actions differently.

[Sir Guppy]

ark_z - first off i agree wth the idea that main races should not really be added to the Tau force, altho some guard already are, but they are only guardsmen really, nothink like a battle tank or platoon, that i would complain about.

Eldar would mentally crush the Tau? i always thought the Tau and Eldar tended to like each other.

I also think at first the Tau did try to neogaite with the Nids, cept they kinda got eatten by the nids. i thought they were going to just sorta say hello, what are your intentions do you want to trade, how are you, would you like to join the tau race? no, well then let me get my gun.

as for the rest of your post i cant say i really understand it. sure every race has an agenda, and it wouldnt suprise me to find out if the Tau were scanning the nids to find out about them, but i dought it would be for anything like making a bio-weapon. you seem to have just made this up. try to get some fluff to back it up, i wrote like a miny essay to support my argument. your argument seems to be based around "this is what they might have done"

Roddy666 - thanks im glad you saw my argument as convincing, makes it worth writing, altho i did stretch some things quite far.

[Lanquis]

Tau are currently at peace.

They have a treaty with the Imperium, the Kroot are allies, the eldar and them are friendly but dont know too much about each other. The orks they see as bandit bad guys so they dont consider that war, they see it as police work. The 'nids would be animal control. The Necrons havent been encountered too much yet. Chaos is the big one but thats not really war either.

Because of the way the galaxy is it is possible to be expanionist and peaceful too. They technically dont take planets but ally with them then populate them with their own kinds and use natives as assistants.

Its really a really subtle method of conquering the galaxy in a way that really only the Tau could manage to do.

[Sir Guppy]

i wouldnt say the imperium and the tau are really at peace. not so long ago this campaign took place over a weekend called return to damocles, in which the imperium attacked the Tau again, im pleased to say the Imperium came out with a convincing victory. which means the imperium and and the Tau empire are at war.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/uk/events/campaignweekends/damocles-2004/default.htm

[Lanquis]

technically though I mean Sir Guppy after the Damocles Crusade peace was declared and recently they made a treaty - that dont mean they dont fight each other though does it. It just means they consider themselves at peace!

I could explain it with a modern world example but dont want to risk ruffling feathers.

I take your point though. In reality the Tau are at war with pretty much every race except the Kroot!

[Kaldaris]

Return to damocles? I've never heard of this campaign so it must be a small and insignificant tournament event. Needless to say the Tau are the most peaceful compared to all the other races.

[Sir Guppy]

i dunno bout that. the eldar are pretty peaceful, they dont tend to invade planets or try to subdue whole populations, they more just try to kill a few select people or stop another race from completing an action

[chocolate]

Tau and Imperium did have peace for a while. Except that the Imperium wouldn't stop making small raids against the Tau, and they eventually got pissed off and war "officially" started again.

[Imperial marine]

stupid imperium the tau are the race that wants to basicly unite the galaxy

[KingKupo]

The Eldar help the Tau for some reason, But have refused to join their empire. It isn't impossible that perhaps some Eldar rangers(the wandering kind) could show up as allies for Tau, but i sincerely doubt it as i suspect the eldar will just use the Tau as they have done with so many. The Tau will most probably include some of the "lesser" races likes demiurg and those frail-bodied psykers paerhaps).

(the eldar might seem pretty peacefull, but that's only because their race is reduced. if they weren't as limited in numbers as they are, they'd act alot different i say. they're not that different from the empirium in the end)

[Sir Guppy]

actually king i think i would have to agree with you there. the eldar would prolly act a lot differntly if they had the power to do it, im sure the eldar would take over planets if they had the man power for a full scale compaign. in a lot of the fluff eldar are doing some very nasty things.

[Kaldaris]

You mean like causing the 3rd Armeggehdon war resulting in the slaughtering of billions of monkeigh type evil thing?

[Sir Guppy]

yeah that sorta stuff, i really hate the eldar for being so bloody annoying like that, the imperium should crash a retribution class battleship at warp speed into a craft world, that would screw em over.

[Imperial marine]

the eldar give people directions

ork fleet: hey wheres this planet
eldar: right its down there plenty of people there to kill so you don't kill us we don't care about them no sir bob
ork fleet: cheers KRAK SUM SKULLS [sorry coulden't resist]

[Kaldaris]

yeah that sorta stuff, i really hate the eldar for being so bloody annoying like that, the imperium should crash a retribution class battleship at warp speed into a craft world, that would screw em over.

LOL the battleship woud be vapourised before the captain could give an order.Craftworlds are Swarming with Eldar capital ships.Not only that but Craftworlds are the size of planets so that debunks your plan.

[Thalasion]

Im thinking a few good sized space hulks could screw it over.

[chocolate]

Eh... I'm pretty sure that ANYTHING moving at faster then light speed would screw over an Eldar craftworld, or any other type of space ship for that matter. Heard of explosive decompression? And whats this about the third war for armageddon and the eldar?

[Kaldaris]

I believe it was Eldrad who got into ghazkhall's(sp?) head and made him unite the orks temporarly and started a waaagh. Also, It would be impossible for your little kamikaze attack since once your in the warp your in a different dimension and the imperium doesn't have any drive that makes you go at warp speed in normal space so yet again it's debunked. Plus, Craftworlds are extremely hard to find.

[Stormblade]

Actually Farseers can... well see far into the future :P. So whoever thought up the idea of finding an eldar craftworld and ramming it would be dead before he could even think of it. This is why they are sen as random and unneccessarily violent. They arn't unnecessarily violent. They are neccessarily violent beause of an event that hasn't actually happened yet. Similarly Eldrad didn't actually put it into Ghazkhulls head that he should attack armaggedon. He killed another ork who would create a Waagh at the Eldar, the fact that Ghazkhulls Waagh did so much damage to Armaggedon was merely a dsideeffect. Albeit a useful one for the eldar.

[Sir Guppy]

I thought eldrad just took out gazskulls opponents. pushing gaskull to power. the reason for doing this was because gaskull wanted to invade the imperium while other ork warbosses would have headed in the direction of craft worlds.

[chocolate]

Calm down. The point I'm trying to make, is that almost anything moving at faster then light speed is going to cause some serious damage to a craftworld.

[Stormblade]

Sir guppy what I said was the same thing... just probably less readable...
And chocolate it would, i'm saying I doubt it'd get there...

[chocolate]

I agree with you there, what with that whole "I see into the future thing going on". I think a craftworld could still be targeted from the warp possibly. If a craftworld is the size of a planet, and has a large amount of Eldar, they will reflect in the warp. Go back to regular space about a half klick away, and even though your decelerating you will hit it pretty hard. Well, unless the Eldar had some capitol ships around of course...

[Dannyboy2]

I agree with you there, what with that whole "I see into the future thing going on". I think a craftworld could still be targeted from the warp possibly. If a craftworld is the size of a planet, and has a large amount of Eldar, they will reflect in the warp. Go back to regular space about a half klick away, and even though your decelerating you will hit it pretty hard. Well, unless the Eldar had some capitol ships around of course...
They Could :D Remember Relic added a couple of new units so we could be surprised

[peer]

Off topic, wooo!


Start a thread about the battle capabilities of Craftworlds if you're all so interested.

[Sir Guppy]

why cant we just use this one?

[peer]

Because I said so. This thread is about the Tau. A new thread about Craftworlds has already been made.

[Imperial marine]

the tau are a race that when discovered by the imperium they were primitive and were ordered for extinction how ever a warp storm [i think] covered the tau homeworld [T'au] 6000 years later and the storm went the imperium went back and the tau were very very advance in the course of 6000 years

[Dimension]

I doubt that the Tau learned anything from the eldar. their tech is very very different when you look at it. Tau developed all of their tech (with a few exceptions such as the demiurg ion cannon) themselves.

the reason why they involved so fast wasn't because they received tech, but because the ethereals focused the collective resources of the race to work towards creating civilization and technology.

if you read the Tau codex, it becomes quite clear that the odd thing about the Tau is not their advanced tech, but the way ethereals showed up literally out of nowhere. to me, all this screams of "old ones".

in reply to post #24 by sir guppy:

I agree with the way you present the first excerpt from Tau Codex, but you have to keep in mind that the imperium claims all planets in the galaxy. in fact, the imperium is the only organized faction besides the tau that really claims planets at all, including all tau sept worlds (which have never really been even set foot on by a human) AND the Tau homeworld (which is a prepostrous concept).

necron, nids and orks don't claim planets, they just wanna kill or consume.

chaos hangs out in the warp, and want to twist everything to their image. they don't claim planets either.

Eldar don't claim planets, they only claim their craftworlds (with the exception of exodites, but many of those coexist with humans, or on planets the imperium isn't really interested in right now). they don't claim planets because they don't even have the population to settle.

I also think that the Tau would not try to claim a world clearly in imperial ownership, only ask them to join, then move on. however, a single little outpost an imperial world not makes. Its as if i go build myself a little hut on the moon and claim the entire sattelite for myself. noone's gonna take me for serious. thus the tau strike and conquer. they love peace, but they're not peacful (something that applies to Aun'Shi and other ethereals as well btw).

the next two quotes have been refuted by King Kupo, and i have nothing to add, since he managed to eloquently defute the claims that the Tau are hypocrits and fools.

About Tau trying to cause trouble by trade agreements and such: I think you're wrong. The way the water caste has struck said agreements shows how the Tau are willing to coexist not only with other people, but with people loyal to other empires. The lost colonyship to them was only the result of a tragic misundertanding to them, and when the human colonies were agreeing to trade, there was no reason to believe the tau were doing wrong.

the claims that they are consciously undermining the imperial authority by trading has no base in the fluff imo, and conflicts with the Tau mindset. they're diplomats and missionaries, not manipulators.

next quote: Hel'Tyr
You're clearly misunderstanding. the orks would never want to join any other empire, because they have absolutely no truck with politics and claiming planets. they live for war. any way in which joining the tau would benefit their bloodlust is beyond them. furthermore, the Tau were clearly not the agressors when they came onto the planet because a) the orks didn't claim it (they wouldn't even know what claiming a planet means), and b) the orks attacked first. oh, and calling orks defenseless is an oxymoron. orks are never defenseless, even naked.

You're partly correct when saying that the idea that Tau leave worlds alone when they're not wanted is false. It only applies when a world is clearly claimed by another faction. maintaining an outpost composes no justified claim to the Tau.

In this case, SirGuppy, I also don't think calling the Tau "hostile" really has much of an impact. in order to judge their hostility, you HAVE to compare it to other races. sure, Tau are not pacifist to the extreme, but calling them hostile when the rest of the galaxy is much more so doesn't really bear much substance.

in reply to post #27, SirGuppy posted: "The Tau give other races little chance, why cant smaller undefended races govern themselves by the laws and ideals laid down in their own consitution in their own language, rather than have a foreign set of laws and ideals for the people of a planet may have no understanding forced upon them?"

Since you apparently have acess to Tau Codex, read the report of the Tau scientist living on a kroot world. not only do the kroot remain relatively independent and govern themselves the way they like, but the tau even tolerate the fact that many kroot fight as mercenaries, which might even be possibly detrimental to the Tau Empire. The Tau don't force their ideas onto the kroot, they strive to win them over by setting an example in the hopes that the kroot might see the savageness in their ways and change their mind.

In conclusion, SirGuppy, you were right to point out that the Tau have a better image than would be accurate, but you're going way overboard. I think you don't completely understand the way the Tau work yet. I myself also had to change my goodygoody opinion of the Tau after reading the Codex. They are expansionist, and most of all very proud. if the milk is sour, they're not going to be the pussy that drinks it (aka they bow to noone). If someone pulls a gun on them, they will go to war and shed no tears about doing so.

you might say, the Tau are not peaceful. they're merely fair.

[Di$array]

who are necrons allied with?
who are dark eldar allied with?

the necrons are a eldarly race that rejected flesh and bone for metal and bonics, and once to be rewaken to destroy all flesh living creatures in the galaexy and the dark edlar have benn know to allie with eldar from time to time, to protect craftworlds, etc.

but as a Tau player i use ambushes alot and deep strike with half my army at the rear of my enemy forces

[Ramrod]

sounds like a pretty unreliable tactic, disarray, since you have a 1/6 chance of getting them in in turn 1, 2/6 in turn 2 and so on. of course, sometimes a lucky roll would get them in in one go, but still...

besides, how many deep strike capable units have you shoved into your army?? sounds pretty elite-heavy

also, this thread was about whether in the story of 40k (not the TT) the tau are aggressive. we know in the TT they can be as aggressive or passive as the myriad of players who use them

[Di$array]

yes i do base that tactic on luck and the battle goes so-so, i think the tau are a passive race but when there septs (worlds) are attack they will become aggressive and protect them at all costs.

[Sir Guppy]

how can you claim the tau to be passive, i hate this view of the tau, the word passive suggests, that the tau are inert, inactive and submissivem. most people agree that they are expansionist, totaly opposite from passivty.

also dimension, in alot of the posts in this thread im tending to attack the tau quite strongly, so some of my posts are exaggerated.

how ever i still feel that the tau are arrogant fools. :D

[Dimension]

in time you will see the error of your ways, my friend.

[Sir Guppy]

yes but you wont be alive to see me see the errors in my ways.

[Caldias]

The Tau are arrogant, but only because they're right :P

[Slappyb]

From page 1:
"necron, nids and orks don't claim planets, they just wanna kill or consume."




Technically after nids consume a planet, its rendered unusable cept for by nids, isnt it? Just wondering :)


And Id say Tau isnt passive at all.. arent they constantly expanding, which often requires putting foot to azz? :P Its been a long time since Ive read up on Codexs, last I heard they had some kinda beef with Imperials. But then again, this was years ago so I dunno :p

[Sir Guppy]

the imperium sorta carried out a little crusade into tau space, got quite far, but had to fallback because they ran into a stalemate and also the men were needed to defend against the latest hive fleet. mroe recenetly however a weekend tournament depectided the imperium returing (return to damolces (Sp?)) in which the imperium won i think.

when nids hit a planet they devour every source of enegery and life on the planet, which can then be used to spawn nid warriors and the like. thereby the planet is turned into a dead world so isnt much use to anyone as its totaly stripped, all that is left is rock.