MODS: Cheat or no cheat?

[PoorPirate]

Recently i was playing hw and i keep joining games saying outright "I've got a mod, any objections leave" and the people either seem to kick me or wait until the game starts then leave, really wasting my time. It's not even one of those cheater mdos it only changes the ship models. (i have no idea what the name is i found it sittin on my hd) I try to explain it to them but they just bitch out and kick me or leave. WTF is up with that? HW:2 will be fully moddable with no cheat detect triggered by mods i suspect, so then they cant complain then, but for now what do i do? Im no giving up the mod i really like it.

[dmille]

if you want to play with a mod, you have to play against someone using the same version of the same mod. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time. You need to remove mods to play against people normally. but you can't use your modded version of homeworld to play against people using the normal version...

dmille

[reki]

the reason people are kicking you pirate, is because if everyone doesnt have your mod installed then you end up with a synced game - ie. modded player is lookin at something different to everyone else. therefore game = useless.

install one copy of hw for mods and one for normal play. if someone is running a mod in my games i call them a dolt, quit and remake.

like dmille said, you need to find someone else to play the mod with you.

[ceejayoz]

Essentially, by having a mod, you mess up the entire game for everyone. They kick you because they want to be able to play a game without sync errors (which means each person sees a different version of the game - basically, it turns from a multiplayer game to a skirmish vs. computer for everone) or cheat detects.

[ceejayoz]

i keep joining games saying outright "I've got a mod, any objections leave"
PS - usually, telling someone to leave their own game won't make you many friends.

[PoorPirate]

well, in all actuality, if a mod changes THE SHIPS TEXTURES/MODELS ONLY then it most likely doesnt change sync or the game play. no i dont agree with you, and no i wont make another copy for normal use becuase i simply, dont have the space on my hard drive. but changing the ship models doesnt effect gameplay, period. thanks for the time to read this and reply, but, frankly i think youre talking about mods which mak you invincible uber-strong all weapon battleships with instant tranportation.

[molo]

before everyone shoots their mouths off, why doesn't poorpirate join a game with his mod and not say he's got it. (and/or test a game with someone). if it sets off the cheat detect or syncs the game, then it's obvious that the mod shouldn't be used online.

if, however, gameplay works normally, and there are no changes to .shp files, i don't see why it's necessary to tell people you're playing with a mod.

[reki]

well basically molo, because it will still register a cheat detect within the first couple of hundred frames of the game.

no i dont agree with you, and no i wont make another copy for normal use thats fine, pirate, im just saying that people will continue kicking you and quitting the game when they see a detect - but its completely up to you if you want to keep running your mod.

personally, i dont have the patience when organising games to hear arguments from individuals about how their particular mod won't sync the game. frankly, i dont trust that alot of people who install mods even know what it is doing to the game. i like to keep it simple - any of my games where a detect appears within the first couple of minutes is restarted and the offender banned. makes playing much easier, to be honest.

[Dukath]

Why doesnt changing the models cause a cheat detect? As far as i know the game still has to calculate if a bullet hits the enemy or not. If you have a huge ship your computer will think it hits, if the other one has tiny ships the bullet probably missed in his game -> SYNC. There ARE things in the gameplay that are affected by models. Live with it.

Its a very simple rule, if you have a mod installed you only play people who have exactly the same mod installed. A sync means game over for the person who is synced, its simple as that.

Apart from that, you can have very good games with MODS, you just need to have every player on the same mod which isn't very easy :(.

If there is a HW2 i juts hope they will provide a function to choose MOD too while choosing the map, that way everyone will automatically have the same mod in the game.

[SvK]

Technically incorrect. You can give a Scout a Cruiser skin and not affect bullets at all, it will just confuse you as your small formations of fighters turn into a big cruiser-glob. MEX files are responsible for collision detection.

Unfortuantely, there are many changes that will not affect play at all, and there are really damaging things, like dropping a Cruiser on someone's MS in 7.5 minutes, which will not set off a sync error. Screwy, eh?

[DoltIncognito]

pirate : you go on WON and accuse everyone of being cheaters and yet you are using a mod which prolly cause the cheat detect in the first place... NO ONE likes being accused of cheating, and in my entire career i have only met 1 person i have been suspicious of cheating. for most of the skilled/older members of WON, they will kick you simply because you highly pissed them off. in fact i will prolly kick you too since for some reason i don't like being accused of cheating either. and you say this : you invincible uber-strong all weapon battleships with instant tranportation.
LOL. go learn alittle about modding b4 saying stuff like this, its impossible to change the firepower in HW, you may see his ships pop like flies with your "cheating mod" but in his game your ships won't be doing any more than usual damage. and then the AI will take over and your ships will act exedingly dumb. be alittle more wary in the future b4 calling ppl cheats cause its a great way to utterly ruin your name.

[reki]

er... kushan, did you even read this thread? or did you just see the word "cheat" and start writing your reply? i have no idea what you are responding to.

[DoltIncognito]

poorpirate got on WON and accused everyone oif being cheaters. he said that this game had more cheaters than any other ect.......

[PoorPirate]

well i dont ever remember saying that, and frankly it is really quite easy to cheta on this game, even though it gives cheat detects. i guess we'll all have to wait and see if hw:2 comes out to resolve this

[reki]

I'd like to hear how its easy to cheat in this game pirate. Please elaborate.

[molo]

especially since the cheat detect will pop up and the other players will drop...

[SvK]

[edit] never mind.

[Spark]

Hmm well i would say it would depend on mod. if it is a popular mod, you might find someone with your mod to play in multi. if it was unpopular mod,the only use would be skirmish,which everyone hates as we know.:(

[PoorPirate]

*casually points to the poll, notices that people support mods mroe then abolish them, chuckles at his slight victory, and sinks back into the deep cushy chair of the lurker*:cool:

[Murph]

Check again :D

[reki]

sorry pirate, but i really still dont see your point. its like setting up a poll asking "IS STRAWBERRY TOPPING THE BEST TOPPING TO USE?"

now, whereas I like my strawberry topping on icecream - it just doesnt go well heaped over my nice sunday roast with pumpkin. if people voted yes to my poll, i would take it that either the question was misleading or they had an overzealous penchant for artificial strawberry flavouring.

no, there is nothing wrong with mods and nobody disputes this. in fact, we all admire the work of mod designers. however, there is something wrong if you try to use a mod in a normal multiplayer game - it doesn't work.

poll fails, sry... dont bask in the glory for too long.

[MrNonchalant]

Originally posted by PoorPirate
*casually points to the poll, notices that people support mods mroe then abolish them, chuckles at his slight victory, and sinks back into the deep cushy chair of the lurker*:cool: What cushy chair? :confused: If there is one, how do I become a lurker? My computer chair is good but has become hard with steady usage. :(

[PoorPirate]

No! yo cannot possess the cushy chair! *straightens himself out*
ok now, as for thw mods, No im sorry, but if we cant use them in normal multiplayer games, then why even make them? no one NO ONE is satisfied with scurmish matches with gay cpus when you got this awesome mod that has no meaning in a cpu match. simply put, you cant make a match with all of the exact same mod, and no one is ever going to not use them online, if you do you suck, simply put. And check the poll i still win, sorry ha ha. i woulndt mind if a mod locked this thrred cuz im noticing myself to start going into flame mode, and im trying not to.
*sinks into his cushy chair...*

[mecha]

pirate: I don't think it's "going into flame mode", it's just that nobody has any idea what you are talking about.

Are you saying that only one person should have to have the mod and the rest should see the effect?

Or is it that you are saying that people who try to play with a mod are cheats?

Or is it that you want to be able to play with a mod and you don't like it when other people call you a cheat because they don't have the mod?

Or that people who are trying to play with a mod should not kick other people out of the game for not having the same mod?

Or perhaps you are just complainig that it is impossible to get a multiplayer game using a mod because some idiot always comes in and claims to have the mod but doesn't really?

Your poll is poorly formed, of course mods are not cheats, but all players in the game need to have the same mod or it won't work and people will see "cheat detect".

Perhaps if you tried to reword your original post people might be able to understand you.

[reki]

*sigh*

pirate, I voted yes but i think it was for completely different reasons than you intended. i kinda think either your point is not getting through to people or everyones points are not getting through to you. this is quite a simple black & white issue.. the facts are that

a. 90% of people restart their game if they get a cheat detect (and also get annoyed).

b. running mods cause cheat detects unless everyone has mod installed.

c. a + b = dont run mods in normal (unmodded) mp games unless you are ok about being kicked from the game.

its really quite simple... there is no need to go "into flame mode".. im not trying to argue with you, im simply pointing out the facts. which part are you disagreeing with?

[Lord Vorkosigan]

I'd just like to point out that all the mod teams say not to play with people who don't have the mod, for the reasons everyone above has posted. You can still play with skirmish, the new single player missions that most every mod is making, or with other who have the same mod. I know that the SOA mod has plenty of people willing to play online.

[DoltIncognito]

1 thing you can do is visit the forums for the mod your using and talk to ppl who have it an arange a time to play with them.

[StewMitch07[DP]]

i know as a fact that any mod will screw MP games.

And seeing your actions in the thread shows me you have the maturity of someone my age, which is actually pretty sad, flaming ppl is an excellent way to go get banned, and if you call other ppl on WON cheaters, then maybe you deserve to get kicked, banned etc on won, so don't be a hypocrit.

(PoorPirate is in no way affiliated with the Drunken Pirates, and will assume no liability for this in-DUH-vidual)

Sincerely,
--StewMitch, DP ambassador to Relic

[dmille]

For the record: mods are designed for use either in skirmish mode or against someone else online using the same version of the same mod. Any other use than that will create errors and is a waste of time for all involved. That is not how mods are meant to be used, and PoorPirate has only managed to demonstrate his ignorance of how Homeworld modding works, and the limitations of it. He fails to understand that even a one character change to Homeworld can and will set off cheat detect (I've done lots of in depth work with what does and doesn't cause cheat detects, because I do, or at one point did, a lot of serious modding). Even changes to something like textures will set it off and will cause sync errors where each player has their own seperate version of the game on their own computer - and the two are not in any way connected. PoorPirate: I suggest you learn more about Homeworld before you start ranting here (start by reading the information I sent you)...

dmille

[Timeless]

Originally posted by PoorPirate
*casually points to the poll, notices that people support mods mroe then abolish them, chuckles at his slight victory, and sinks back into the deep cushy chair of the lurker*:cool:

I am offended simply by the way in which you presented this poll. Either agree with me or you're an idiot?

It's as simple as getting rid of the goddamn mod if you want to play people online, unless they have it. The attitude "I'm using a mod, if you don't like it, get lost" immediately makes you look like a jerk-off. It would be more appropriate to say "Does anyone mind if I use this mod? If so, I'll leave.". It's impossible to know the integrity of each person, cheaters don't announce it ahead of time and if I see any sort of cheat detect resulting from game sync or mods, I'd leave as well, winning or not.

[OneOfOneMillion]

I must admit that when I enter the lobby on Won, and say "hi anyone want to help me beta test Rebirth", and they say "what's Rebirth", and I say "it's a mod", I get a little irritated when I get "MOD = CHEAT".

I realise that people have obviously tried altering ship stats to cheat which sucks, but the serious modders are trying to make a decent attempt at alternative gameplay, and it's a little demoralising to hear "cheat" be bandided about.

Still it's also cool to "educate" these people, ie get them to download the mod, and then let them play it. So far I've only had favourable feedback from people who've played it. Still it does take some persistance to get people to play it.

OneOfOneMillion

[reki]

Tempest - for future reference:

Please dont bump year old threads to flame someone who has not been a member here for a year with an argument that several people have already made a year ago.

thanks, and locked.