So how has 1.4 effected Defiler Spamming?

[Freeleaves]

has it curtailed it??

[Question]

Yes.But when you get one out,the carnage starts.Just like 1.3.

[Da_Fish]

It has stopped the spamming but not the rapage.

[theBlind]

1on1 - It's toned down and better imho.
team games - nearly as bad as they were, especially if you face 2-3 chaos, since they usually can get a few spamming machine pits up and with shared resources also have the power to spam them.

Should still be 3 pop and machine pit should give 3 initial pop.

[Freeleaves]

hmm. sounds like chaos are still going to be the dominant race then.

[SirTerrius]

well... in my experience...

with the marines being cheaper, they reinforce quicker, and missles rock the defilers, which reinforce/or recreate slower...so, a chaos player has to build more pits... more micro... less micro for SM..

so, imho..

the balance has shifted

defilers still have value, just not as much against good to great players... noobs and average players till have challenges with them however

[Grabnutz]

Not another defiler thread freeleaves...
You don't play the game much do you? haos has never been the dominant race, and in 1.4 they are buggered more than 1.3 orks.

[CrimsonHellkite]

hmm. sounds like chaos are still going to be the dominant race then.

... Chaos were never the dominant race, except in 4v4 games. Eldar have always been on top.

[Droog_Janus]

hmm. sounds like chaos are still going to be the dominant race then.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA *breathes* hahahahahahahahahaha *breathes again* hahahahaha

It's sad that some people really have no idea what 1.4 has done to the Chaos players.

CSM spam anyone? *falls alseep*

[Freeleaves]

Not another defiler thread freeleaves...
You don't play the game much do you? haos has never been the dominant race, and in 1.4 they are buggered more than 1.3 orks.
oh really have u visited the dawnofwargame.com website in the past 5 months?? it lists the win percentages of all the races. chaos was consistanly number 1 with a win ratio of 57%. in second place was eldar with 52 %. now that they have reset all stats we will see if that changes. but i would call chaos the dominant race of the last 5 months. the stats prove it.

[Grabnutz]

1.4 only took away defiler spam and sorc imbaness.
so apart from those you are the same as in 1.3

i.e really crap, 1 viable strat (marine massing) and to boot you get idiots telling you your still OP...

EDIT@ freeleaves. Stats mean bugger all. If it comes down to stats Vs game experience we all know which is more truthful. Those stats take into account that some players set up 7 humans Vs 1 easy comp to buff their stats. Alot of players just spammed defilers in team games and QS, and most of the time when they had to fight competent players they died due to being generally crap at everything apart from pressing the defiler button.
Play the normal game, 1v1s, or 2v2s. In 1.3 chaos were naff, with only 2 OP units in a race full of unviable deamons and rubbish tier 3, and cultists to endure (they are both bad and annoying, no worse combination).
Nobody can claim anything is imbalanced just from the stats you are using.

[CrimsonHellkite]

oh really have u visited the dawnofwargame.com website in the past 5 months?? it lists the win percentages of all the races. chaos was consistanly number 1 with a win ration of 57%. in second place was eldar with 52 %.

Win percentage means nothing. It's 1v1 automatch that counts, and please note that the Eldar had complete dominace in the top 50.

[Grabnutz]

I wouldn't say its 1v1 only that counts, but beyond teams of 2 or 3 imbalances get exponentially worse. The big games I play are either FFAs or 2v2v2 / 2v2v2v2 and the odd 3v3 with friends against friends.
2v2s go along the same lines of strategy and balance as 1v1s, only with more options and tactics coming in, and less need for uber micro.

[Da_Fish]

sounds like chaos are still going to be the dominant race then.

:disgust:

[Freeleaves]

1.4 only took away defiler spam and sorc imbaness.
so apart from those you are the same as in 1.3

i.e really crap, 1 viable strat (marine massing) and to boot you get idiots telling you your still OP...

EDIT@ freeleaves. Stats mean bugger all. If it comes down to stats Vs game experience we all know which is more truthful. Those stats take into account that some players set up 7 humans Vs 1 easy comp to buff their stats. Alot of players just spammed defilers in team games and QS, and most of the time when they had to fight competent players they died due to being generally crap at everything apart from pressing the defiler button.
Play the normal game, 1v1s, or 2v2s. In 1.3 chaos were naff, with only 2 OP units in a race full of unviable deamons and rubbish tier 3, and cultists to endure (they are both bad and annoying, no worse combination).
Nobody can claim anything is imbalanced just from the stats you are using.
thats the whole point. the chaos stats were inflated because of the defiler spamming. a win is a win. and whether u call it lame tactics or not, if one race wins more than the others that's called being dominant.

[Grabnutz]

the chaos stats were inflated because of the defiler spamming

exactly, you can hardly call getting more wins from ganging up on comps and noobs being the dominant race.
To find the best race, you look at the ladders (although the 1v1 is full of smurfs which skews it alot).
You think chaos is dominant, fine, go play chaos, see how many people you own with your defilers.

[Shadowhand]

It is my belief that chaos is gibbled horribly this patch, because of the void that the defiler spam has left. not balanced with it, too weak without it.. defilers were the only thing keeping us in the green, now we have only marines and that doesnt get us very far.

[Grabnutz]

yep, but marine mass is pretty good (against me anyway, I can't kill the buggers and they're faster than me :p ) and currently I'm having trouble keeping their economy down and they get about 4 defilers out despite the nerf! Fortunately I can cope with them as they come out alone, but If i loose my army I have nothing to stop them killing my base.
Still, I will work out a counter very soon, as will everyone else, so chaos's only strat will soon suck anyway.

[Freeleaves]

It is my belief that chaos is gibbled horribly this patch, because of the void that the defiler spam has left. not balanced with it, too weak without it.. defilers were the only thing keeping us in the green, now we have only marines and that doesnt get us very far.
so are u an admitted defiler spammer?

[Grabnutz]

No he is not, I have played with him, he hates it.
stop witch hunting and post something constructive.

[Gawd]

I think everything is pretty much fine now, great thing is, whatever your enemy throws at you, there is ALWAYS a counter, you just gotta discover what that is, and then use it in time. So in the end, no matter what race you play, it really comes down to the player, I'd call that balance. Still you can spam defilers, but thats nothing a few brightlances/missle launchers/tankbustaz can't fix.

[WNxSanguinius]

The sad fact is as Chaos as no real vehicles to match SM or Eldar so people turned to defiler spam. Now with the nerf on defilers and preds power cost still hi chaos have less vehicles to use now, chaos was allways a hard race to beat but now with the nerfs on chaos players are going to struggle. So what can chaos players turn to other then mass CSM or PSM. I dont mined the defiler nerf so much but at least give us chaos players another vehicle or make the pred easyer to get out to give us some kind of Anti-vehicle other then missles :bow:

[Smit1000]

The sad fact is as Chaos as no real vehicles to match SM or Eldar

Space marines have alot of choice with their vehicles? Please, besides from dreads, sm have a land speeder (used so much...) and a whirl wind (used even more..).

Chaos have the choice of a fast hitting pred, that can be upgraded in later tiers, or a 100dps defiler that only costs 50 more power then a dread.

All this crying about chaos's vehicles sucking more then marines and even Eldar (i would rather have chaos's vehicles then eldars) is just wrong.

In my opinion chaos need a boost to their PSM, demons and Oblits. If PSM and demons became more effective it would open up more strategies, other then spamming CSM and defilers.

[WNxSanguinius]

In my opinion chaos need a boost to their PSM, demons and Oblits. If PSM and demons became more effective it would open up more strategies, other then spamming CSM and defilers

That sadly wont fix the problem due to rec + power cost is just to hi with PSM. Land speeders Eat troops and dreds will own troops as well and vehicles ................. The only way is to mass Oblits but there Very late game, and with Demons thay are not very good vrs vehicles. Only PSM are any use but the power and rec for upgrades inclued time taken to upgrade is just to long as well. People would complane if relic was to pump up PSM due agane to PSM spam

[Smit1000]

Land speeders have very little use. As do whirlwinds, so at tier 2 chaos have more "real" options then marines.

The issue with chaos is their sac pit, where the soc, PSM and demons are made. They need to be buffed slightly, so people actually start using them.

People would complane if relic was to pump up PSM due agane to PSM spam

If you buff any unit there is a chance this will happen. If Relic does a good job, a little buff will not cause this to happen.

I would like to see chaos become a real race, not a second rate space marine race.

[Dymo]

I hate to say it but I am with Droog on this one. Ok forget I said that, and that Droog said it. ok?

[nude-fox]

space marines>chaos

[oXo]

not a second rate space marine race.
But they are :jk:

[Question]

SM is dominant race now.Chaos is still dominant race in QS,making it worthless to play.Some of us like big battles once in a while,but its not possible,because to win you need to play chaos and spam defilers.

Chaos is right behind SM as dominant race in team games.

[van Uber]

Freeleaves, what is it with you and Defilers? One third of your total posts youve made is about them and they range from "spamming is ok" to "ruining IMBA". Im just curious.

[ArTizan]

"Chaos is right behind SM as dominant race in team games."

hmm tough call, personally i would still keep Eldar top, 10 reaper squads in a team game mow down any sm/chaos players I find :)) Defilers sometimes come out but no-where near as early, and usually only on the side that is about the clinch the win i find.

I much prefer the 1.4 fix :)

[Grabnutz]

i would say eldar are less good, as it is way easier to outmass them. They only owned team games when the 1.2 prism was around.

[mlai]

Only n00b SM players think Landspeeders and Whirlwinds do not occupy an important place in the SM arsenal. I love fighting such easy prey players.

Anyways, 1.4 definitely nerfed Defilers, but in the wrong way. And too much on the Sorc, and didn't fix any of the other 1.3 Chaos problems. Overall a disappointing patch for Chaos based on what we know so far.