Guys! New Tau/GW Stuff!!! Check Them Out!

[NeoHunter]

I don't have to say more. Let the pictures speak for themselves.

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50681

[Edited by Tinweasel - merging threads]

[Dvalin]

You missed a couple of things from dakkadakka, actually -- namely, additional concept art. http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/93/forumid/6/postid/3532/view/topic/Default.aspx

We see Aun'va'denta or whatnot in the first picture -- pope-on-a-drone, to summarize. I think this is GW's reaction to people going "OMG! Aun'shi prances around in a loincloth? So barbaric!" or whatnot. ;) Honor guard is also seen, evidently.

Then a Kroot, another Farsight picture, and a concept of Shadowsun, the new XV-something-not-normal commander.

As for the models -- the new drones with spotter (that's the guy crouched behind a stand) is a heavy choice with rail rifles, evidently multiple teams will be available for one heavy choice. The new railriflemen there are presumably new versions of the rail rifles, with better sculpts.

The Vespids, I think we'll all agree, look better with this paintscheme -- still a bit comical, but not nearly to the same degree.

Shadowsun's model, well -- who's to say on quality? All we see is a rather bleh, pastel paintscheme. Oh, and giant hair -- giant, flowing hair. Yay.

The XV-8 we see is presumably a normal crisis suit sporting a bunch of random options from the command suit sprue we'll be getting -- with special-issue weapons, wargear and whatnot for HQ suits.

[BrianGeneral]

Heh, at last I can do something against SM in a short table after the Sniper Team is out!;)

Another XV suit for HQ will be bought after it's released, but hell, please give us some good stuff......

[NeoHunter]

I am defnitely getting Commander Shadowsun. I think her armor suit rocks! And that hair is going to be interesting to paint. Going to finda tutorial or find my friend for help on painting long locks of hair flowing in the wind...

The new Crisis Suit doesn't look that new to me in terms of design. I was hoping for something more rounded like those Forgeworld is always churning out. But the most interesting thing of the entire not-so-new Crisis Suit are the weapon options.

[omega the end]

Those are Freakin AWSOME!!! God I cant wait till they come out.

[Ap0k]

The painting did none of those mini's any justice, apart from the Vespids, which looks just as good as they did the first time I saw them.

Shadowsun model looks nice, but whoever painted her needs bloody shot. "OMG she is teh gril so piatn hre in teh gurly cloulors!!!one". I'll probably lop that dodgy looking hair bit off as well. In fact, I might even lop the whole head off and give here a stealth suit head (assuming she gets the stealth generator thats been rumoured). Hate painting blue faces.

Not sure how I feel about the weapons on the XV8. Looks a little crowded, and not particularly similar to what we have at the minute as far as weapon 'style' goes. Will be waiting to see just whats goin on there.

Overall it's nice to see some new stuff, and those pathfinder teams seems to have a release date of Feb '06, so it's a possiblity we could be seeing a codex then? (I know it was semi-confirmed recently that it had been pushed back until march/april, but well... hmmm...)

[NeoHunter]

Personally, I agree with Apok too on the colour scheme for Commander Shadowsun. I say give her something darker if the suit she is wearing is really a Stealth Suit. A bit of bright colours like light blue or even white will do to give it more contast but mosstly darker colours is the way to go. As for the hair, I think it is nice. I wouldn't lop it off. And the Tau head? I'll keep that on too. Never painted Tau faces before anyway. And all my Tau Fire Warriors have helmets. Even the Shas'ui. Oops! :D

I am a little disappointed with the new Crisis Suits though. Not really that new in terms of design anyway. Still much too blocky. If they wanted to copy anime, I think Games Workshop got it all wrong. Even if they didn't, I still think its not very new. Only the new weapon options will appeal to me.

[Fixer]

As a marine player, I am becoming concerned about the amount of AP3 and AP2 weapons the tau seem to be getting :)

[NeoHunter]

As a marine player, I am becoming concerned about the amount of AP3 and AP2 weapons the tau seem to be getting
What makes you say that since the new Codex for the Tau Empire is not finished or out on the shelves yet?

A little too early to be crying out "We're finished!" when you don't even know whether the enemy has a nuclear bomb or not. So to speak... :D

[Dante]

The red vespids look really nice actually.

Other paint jobs...not so great, I like the Shadowsun model, but again the paint scheme ain't too hot.

off topic: the giant is AWSOME! :)

[Cailet]

How long until the creators of Gundam and Patlabor sue?

[Shinsei]

Meh, they used the same scheme on the vespids that I'm using on my kroot :P. So far, from what I've seen, it looks like Tau's just getting a shit load of accessories, and not really any improvements on the core things. Hopefully, they're not changing the rules to gimp fireknives, stealths, FW's and hammerhead armies.

[treeboy]

yay!!! sniper drones!!! i'd really like to know what thoose weps the crisis suits are armed with, and i hope there not just new looks for existing weaponry.

has any one knowticed on the concept art of the tau shas'watshisface guy, that behind hime theres some odd looking guy with a staff that appears to be glowing or doing some thing odd, is that going to be a new unit as well?

as for the new look commander, she seems rather big compared to the other tau...or is that just me?

[Brother Wolf]

With the Eldar and Orks languishing in anonymity, I'm not thrilled in the slightest that the Tau seems to get getting the upcoming boost in models/codex.

[Piccolo]

Orks and Eldar both need a new book much sooner than tau. However I can't really complain about getting some more options. It remains to be seen how good some of the new goodies will be depending on which force org slots they take up and their costs.

[General Nuke Em]

If the new tau codex follows the trend for all the other 4th edition releases, you can count on Tau being the next army to beat.

[SocialSecurity]

"OK, now we can take 6 broadsides.. and railguns are now Assault 5..."

[omega the end]

shadow sun does look a little bit bigger than the scouts in the background and her paint job isn't the best. But all in all she still looks good.

The concept art is awsome, and to the person who asked- That would be the ethereal in a floating chair whith is supposed houner guard.

the path finders have an alright paint job but mine is better and everyone else's probly is too. The drone controler looks pretty cool but at first glance it reminded me of the eldar walker thing.

But in the end I shall stick with my previous statement.

[Ap0k]

has any one knowticed on the concept art of the tau shas'watshisface guy, that behind hime theres some odd looking guy with a staff that appears to be glowing or doing some thing odd, is that going to be a new unit as well?
The guy on the throne is Aun'Va'Denta, he supposedly trained Shadowsun up (who in turn, apparently doesn't like Farsight much, not that I blame her, he gimps lists). The guys around him with the big polearms would probably be his honour guard.

as for the new look commander, she seems rather big compared to the other tau...or is that just me?
She's wearing an XV22 battlesuit, apparently an amalgamation of Stealth and Crisis technology. It's a little bigger than a stealth suit from the look of things, but considerably smaller than an XV8x series suit. I'm quite curious as to just how her rules develop.

[mortifactor]

Actually, if that is suppossed to be a new stealth suit look I won't complain as much as I did when the cover art surfaced...

but since it's a special character who can say. Hopefully she's got better than 12" range... In fact, I wouldn't mind if the Tau armory stopped looking like half of it was ripped from the IoM armories.

So.. here's hoping the new guns on the otherwise blech crisis suit are more uniquely tau guns, and not just some funky mod someone did...


and I liked that artwork for shadowsun, very tres cool...

[NeoHunter]

Anybody care to hazard a guess as to what the purpose of the drone for Shadowsun is?

and I liked that artwork for shadowsun, very tres cool...
Totally agree with you on that one. Her pose is like she is looking down on some enemy or stalking him...a little on the scary side though...

[mortifactor]

That's what makes it cool....

[Tarot]

Woohoo! Plastic Giant! Orc players rejoice! Beasts of chaos players not so much! But look at all the bitz! Dear God, the BITZ!!!

[Random Person]

I am so getting Tau.

[NeoHunter]

I am so getting Tau.
Same here. Will defnitely be getting Commander Shadowsun for my ever growing collection of Tau miniatures. Think I'm going to paint her in Scab Red with Bloody Red for highlights for most of the armor, Chaos Black with Shadow Grey highlights for some parts and Skull White for the remainder to give it more contrast.

[Hot_Trigger]

many of u have asked "Orks and Eldar both need a new book much sooner than tau." the reason y tau r getting a new codex is because of the majority armour rule for units which makes the gun drones useless in the tau army and they also need plenty of new units as well

[Cailet]

Good lord you illiterate sod. This isn't fucking MSN.

"Majority armour gimped drones" Yeah, and a five-minute fix posted on the 'net and WD would deal with it. Not a justification for a 12 pound book.

"They need new units" My nose bleeds for you. Last army I played was Dark Eldar. Same number of units. Nowhere on the release list.

Eldar and Orks both need work before Tau and have been waiting since literally the start of 3rd Edition 40k. I like Tau but they didn't need this as much as Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar do.

[cfoley]

Anybody care to hazard a guess as to what the purpose of the drone for Shadowsun is?I'll hazard a guess at some sort of shield drone.

[Hot_Trigger]

hay look Cailet i play SM and that is only want i have been told by GW staff memder i agree with you orks and all the eldar races need a codex

last i hered all the elder races are going in to one big book and there after what is after tau or after that i can not remember.

[Cailet]

Dammit! Make your posts readable.

'Are' not 'r' and 'you' not 'u'. 'I' is always capitalised when in a single-letter word.

'Hey' is spelt with an 'e' and you need to capitalise the first letter of each sentence. Basic literacy skills are mastered by most by the age of 7.

And for crying out loud the 'all Eldar in one book' rumour has been refuted so fucking many times it's draining my soul each time I read it!

And it's 'Eldar' with an 'a'.

[t-mac_drops]

With the Eldar and Orks languishing in anonymity, I'm not thrilled in the slightest that the Tau seems to get getting the upcoming boost in models/codex.


I could not agree more....it's all about the ORKS.

[Fake Sinatra]

The Orks and Eldar need such major overhauls that I understand why GW decided to get the Tau out of the way first.

The Orks need plastic boxes for almost their entire miniature line. Even some of their existing plastics need to be totally redone (bikes and trukks.)

The Eldar are slightly better off because the Falcon, Vyper, and Wave serpent don't really need to be re-released. That aside the Eldar still need new minis for all of the aspect warriors as well as the Avatar and Wraithlord.

[Ap0k]

Fake Sinatra is probably pretty close to the truth, combined with Tau being a fairly popular Xenos army (though I'm not quite sure where they rate compared to Eldar and Orks) would make it seem like good marketing to get a Tau 'dex out quick (compared to the time it would take to practically redo the Ork model line, and/or sort out Eldar, who both need fairly large revamps it seems) where they can get a solid cash flow at the start of the year from a popular army choice.

I don't entirely disagree that Eldar/Orks could do with a new list, and probably moreso than the Tau, but well.. Tau are cool, and Orks aren't (I'd probably better put the 'personal opinion' disclaimer on the end of this, in case someone takes it personally).

It's a good thing for me anyway, since I was planning Eldar as my next venture, so having Tau next gives my wallet time to recuperate before the next assault.

And Cailet, I don't think theres any need to be quite so ignorant and abusive in your posts, it's less becoming than someone who persists in typing like they just hopped out of the local AOL chatroom. In other words, neither is acceptable.

[Dvalin]

So -- a post I originally made on Warseer, cut/pasted here for relevance. ;p

Pardon for stepping on the soap box, here, but one thing I can't help but notice is the degree to which people complain about how other codexes are older than the Tau and are in greater need of attention. I generally agree on this front, mind, but it's generally accompanied by the mindset that the Tau are brand spanking new and so it's an injustice for them to get attention before other races. I must note, for the record, that the Tau were released in 2001 -- which means that their codex is about 4 years old at this point. The Eldar and Ork codexes were released in 1999 -- which is to say about 6 years old. Consider, also, that the Eldar received the Craftworld book in 2000 and both Orks and Eldar have received mention and some new army lists in 2000 (Orks in Armageddon) and 2003 (Eldar in Eye of Terror), whereas the Tau have received practically no mention in any other texts. So -- while there is a disparity in age, it's not like the Tau are completely undeserving of attention -- especially considering the rather significant disparity in number of unit and weapons selections, the effective versatility of the army or the viability of original army lists (such as they ever exist).

I'll admit that I'm biased, being a Tau player, but I'll admit to some frustration when I'm hanging out at the local shop and everyone's railing against how horrible it is that the Tau are getting a codex. It's not that great a thing for Eldar and Orks, I'll agree -- but it's not like GW's killing babies and skinning kittens for coats.


Edit: And some new pictures from the Spanish Games Day. http://fr.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/obrufr/album?.dir=/40a6
The first gives us a wee tiny look at the new Stealthsuits and confirms the existance of the Pirahna in the new codex. Also, we'll all notice that the Crisis Suits have bent knees a lot of the time -- posability has been increased in the new plastic set, it looks like. Some new Ethereals can also be seen -- from pope-on-a-drone to some other lesser Ethereals mixed in with fire warrior teams.

Edit of edit: and better pictures of the Spanish display are at http://www.atalaya-enigmas.de/foro/viewtopic.php?t=209 -- though it's notable that this second run doesn't include the display diorama with the Stealth Suits and Pirahna. :(

[Shas'ui]

The stealths in the diorama look almost exactly like the concept art on the supposed cover of the new codex. If only these crappy school computers had photoshop, I could probably get a decent zoomed-in pic of the stealths.

[Dvalin]

That they do, Shas'ui; beefy suits, to be sure. I've been scouring the rumor forums for better pictures of the stealth suits, but haven't found any. Of course, if they've shown up at a Games Day, odds are that the pictures will follow on GW's Sneak Peeks page before too long.

[Shas'ui]

Very true Dvalin, when I do get home, I'll see if I can't make the picture of the suits any bigger with photoshop.

[Shinsei]

I'm so getting the pope on a drone.

[Dante]

The new ethereals look like they have really extravagent clothing and war gear.

Also the red Shadowsun looks pretty good.

New stealth suits: at first I was like, what the hell are those gorilla things??? Then I realised they were stealth suits! Man i want a close up of them.

[eventhorizon]

@ dvalin- in all fairness, the eldar didnt really receive any 'new' units in the ulthwe strike list. they just got a new one made from existing units...and its a poor list at that. the orks get a decent list out of the speed freaks list, but again, nothing new. tau, on the other hand seem to have been getting heavy attention from forgeworld with the knarloc, new gun drone squads, piranhas, and the broadside moulds (broadsides not a new unit, but still they are pretty sweet moulds). you see my point.

anyway, they went tau, and from what ive seen of the new models, they are looking pretty sweet. i may even consider buying a few just to put on my display shelf (maybe the gurly tau commander). i also would like to encourage the use of the phrase 'pope on a dron' to the point that it is commonplace in games workshop/gaming societies worldwide- i would very much like to see 'pope on a dron' used in a codex or failing that a WD mag...hehe

that spanish site has really weird colour-schemed tau and is that...it cant be...is that an ethereal playing the maracas in the 6th tau pic down?! hehe

-horizon

[Dvalin]

Well, I guess part of my reaction is on the basis of the rumors of the Eldar following the Tau in late summer/early fall '06 -- they're rather, er.. loud about how they want the new stuff now. ;)

But noted, all the same.

[Fake Sinatra]

I don't entirely disagree that Eldar/Orks could do with a new list, and probably moreso than the Tau, but well.. Tau are cool, and Orks aren't (I'd probably better put the 'personal opinion' disclaimer on the end of this, in case someone takes it personally).

I'm an Ork player and I actually agree with you.

Orks aren't cool. Their weapons are very basic with little variety. This lack of variety makes their bigger units such as Dreads and Kans fairly uninteresting as well. With the exception of Tankbustas and Kommandos they can't take anything resembling a veteran skill. They have nothing that Deep Strikes. They have nothing that rends. I could go on and on.

All in all the Orks lack units that you look at in the Codex and say "wow that's really nasty." Ork Tactica is limited to "find a way to get your Boyz into an assault before they get shot up." There are relatively few ways to do this compared to, say, the Tyranids.

The Orks COULD be really really cool. They have loads of potential given their unique personality and background. They're already loads of fun to play even if they don't get many easy wins. I know GW sees this potential but it may take a very long time to pull it all together into a cool codex that still feels Orky enough.

In the meantime I look forward to the Tau players getting their book.

[omega the end]

Finally some veriety in ethereals!! What a great day this has been for me!!!!

[Shas'ui]

This is about the best I could do, it is still a little blurry but you can kinda make out the shape of the stealths better, at least I hope you can.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/halo_fan/tuadiorama.jpg

[Yo-jim-bo]

The thing about Eldar and Orks is that they've been around so long and aquired so many troop types and unique tricks that there's lots of different ways you can play them.

With Eldar for example, not only do you have the craftworld lists, but you have a whole host of other viable approaches as well. The same isn't true for tau. Where Eldar have lots of different options for their guardians-support meleers, fire magnets, platform platforms, or even well rounded :)-fire warriors have no such flexibility.

Or look at elites, where eldar have a good 5 or so viable options, and tau get just two. Tau also get only 1 decent heavy support option, the hammerhead, as opposed to what, four or so for eldar.

Basicly, the general rule is that the newer the army, the sooner it will need a new codex, as one codex simply isn't enough for designers to be able to match the options available to all the 'old-school' armies. Eldar and orks could do with new models and a fresh marketing push, but gameplay-wise I'd much rather see the likes of Necrons and the =][= armies get new codexes, and hopefully some much-needed flexibility with it.

[SlickWilly]

I dont know about you guys, but the Tau are starting to strike a resemblance with the Covenent for me...

[ExplodingGeckos]

Please don't ever say that again. We definitly don't need to start an argument like THAT.

[NeoHunter]

Dammit man! Can somebody please help me get a better picture of those new Stealth Suits? I want to see how ugly they are...

Anyway, I don't think I will be getting those new Ethereals. How come Games Workshop make them look so...so...tribal?!

[Ap0k]

Anyway, I don't think I will be getting those new Ethereals. How come Games Workshop make them look so...so...tribal?!
Agreed. That Aztec look does nothing for me at all. I was rather hoping for a nice new Ethereal mini since the current one sucks bit as well, but it seems I'll not be updating to the new one. That stupid head-dress/collar thing is a major turn off, along with those sickle like weapons.

Haven't seen a good picture of Aun'Va'Denta yet, so it might make up for it somehow.

[Shinsei]

I was thinking of ordering 6x stealth suit blisters (12 suits), 3 hammerheads and 2 boxes of firewarriors to complete my army for when I visit the states, from the warstore, but when these new models come out in feb, do you think I'm better off waiting? Would my order of "old" stealth suits, hammerheads and firewarriors be outdated and unusable, or inferior to the new models?

[Un named Marine]

[/QUOTE]I was thinking of ordering 6x stealth suit blisters (12 suits), 3 hammerheads and 2 boxes of firewarriors to complete my army for when I visit the states, from the warstore, but when these new models come out in feb, do you think I'm better off waiting? Would my order of "old" stealth suits, hammerheads and firewarriors be outdated and unusable, or inferior to the new models?[QUOTE]

The stealth suits look a gay from what i can see. The other boxes look like there staying the same so it's up to you.

[Dvalin]

Firewarriors and Hammerheads will be the same as before, I believe. Stealth Suits? Well, depends on preference. So far, we've not seen any clear indication of them -- only half a glimpse in the cover art and a picture of a picture. What you would be missing, though, are any new gear options stealths may have -- and there's this vaguest of mentions, once upon a time, that stealths may pick up new weapons options.

[Cailet]

Are the Stealth suits the ones that look like Wraithguard crossed with the original Ghostwarriors?

Ugly as sin.

[Dvalin]

The picture prevents us from making out the unit properly. Given the coloration and this factor, it -does- look like Stealths have a giant, Wraith*-style head. From the cover art, though, one may know that the head is in fact recessed, terminator-style, in a bulky torso. In other words: it's not as ugly as one immediately thinks. ;p

I specifically reference this picture from GD UK, hosted by Brimstone of Warseer; http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/49786254.jpg -- originally found in the rumor round-up thread http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37&page=4

[TS_ahriman]

I cheered for Cailet two pages ago.

Oh yeah, and the tau things look sweet. Except for the vespids, mainly because they still look like ass.

[Cailet]

The stealthsuit on the cover seems OK actually. Still prefer the originals.

[NeoHunter]

The stealthsuit on the cover seems OK actually. Still prefer the originals.
I agree with you to a certain degree since the clearest pictures of the Stealth Suits we've seen are only on the cover art. I think I will save the rest of my criticisms for later when I actually see the models themselves in person.

[Shinsei]

Personally I like the stealths the way they are. I don't think they're in need of a makeover, unless to add more weapon options. I'm just a little uneasy about the whole upcoming Tau thing. I'm trying to get a Tau army together myself, and I don't want to waste money just to find out that the army I was gathering is far more inferior to some other options that are coming.

[Dvalin]

Yet another filched picture:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/1258/stealth1zt.jpg

There're the stealths. Evidently "up to half of the unit may take fusion blasters," from the Q&A at Conflict Montreal. Unknown if there are other weapons they can take.

Hm. Unsure on those stealths; I think part of it is the coloration, though.

[Shas'ui]

OMG, they look horrible! I think trying to make them look bulkier is just not the way to go. They should look sleak, like the current ones. They are meant to sneak around and be stealthy after all. In this case, bigger isn't better.

[Dvalin]

How I've heard it said is that the problem GW had was that Stealth Suits looked like power armor, and not a proper battlesuit as it was meant to be. Evidently they wanted to increase the size to note clearly that it's not powerarmor -- remember, after all, that these suits do carry jetpacks, a stealth field generator and targeting systems, and also presumably some sort of power system.

Actually, after some staring, I think I don't mind the new stealth suits that much. Just a -wee- little bit of tweaking so that they don't look hunched-over, and all will be well. ;)

[Piccolo]

Tau are getting alot of goodies, should make for a good overhaul of my tactica once all the new toys hit the shelves.

As much as I don't like the new stealth models they will still follow the same rule as I use for kroot. If the unit is needed I can deal with an ugly model.

[MooFreaky]

I think they look kinda cool. They maybe aren't inspiring like some other units. But they just seem to fit. IMO at least.

[Ap0k]

I dont think the angle of the photo (i.e the GW sanctioned one) does them any justice. Those big bubble things around their heads just look bloody weird from that angle. I'll reserve final judgement until I see some better pictures, but for now, I'm kinda glad I bought the 12 needed to take me to 3 full squads of the 'original' ones.

Fusions are going to be nigh on useless unless they fiddle with the Stealth Field rules as well (which is doubtful). 18" effective range with an average of 21" rolled on NF checks makes for pointlessness.

[Random Person]

Here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37&page=6) are good pics, from Warseer. Scroll down.

[TheSanityAssass]

Hmm...frightened at the number of ap-2 and 3 weapons they have...ever looked at the eldar codex??

I actually like the move towards more AP-2 and 3 stuff, makes marine players learn how to play better...not as a derogetory comment, but too many kids start playing and just get power armour and walk forward thinking their invincible...I'm used to getting no armour saves, so I learn to deal with it. I think all in all it will make marines better, as player quality will improve...

As for what was being said, I agree, even as an Eldar player, that Tau should come before Eldar....Orks need it more perhaps, but Tau are more popular.

The problem with Tau is that their army basically became a cookie cutter. There was one Tau army people played and no variation. I hope the new book gives them some cooler options to play in a more varied style.

I personally think the Eldar book is fine...I've been using it for years, and I still think it is one of the strongest codex releases, particularly with the Craftworld add on....so many varied, yet effective troop types. Sure a few things need to get fixed, but its generally completely playable, winable, beatable, and best of all varied....I wouldn't mind it staying put for a while...

Dark Eldar on the other hand really need some fixing, but I won't hold my breath for that...and I can still win with mine, so I'm fine if people want to underestimate them....

[treeboy]

I’m slightly suspicious that there not stealth suits at all, and are actually a different type of battle suit. As they don’t look at all stealthy, and they have different weapon options.

I think the models don’t look as crappy as every seems to be making they look, I’d still use them.

[Shas'ui]

The new pictures, thanks to Random Person, really do show off the stealths' looks. I still think they are too bulky for stealth suits and the fusion blaster upgrade really won't be that good unless you are almost right on top of your opponent. In which case you will probably get blown to bits before you get a chance to use them.

[Dvalin]

The whole problem with the "they don't look stealthy" argument is that Stealth Suits aren't stealthy by virtue of their appearance -- but instead what's essentially a predator-style personal cloaking field. Looks don't factor into it, that's to say. ;) And actually? Getting that latest picture (Brimstone rocks!) makes me love the new suits. Tau don't do power armor -- Tau do battlesuits. Woo! ;D

[omega the end]

Damn it! Those can't be steath suits!!! Please let them be some new battle suit! They look much better than the picture but I still find the old stealth suits much better in every aspect.

[Dvalin]

That's precisely the point, Omega. XV-25s -are- new battlesuits. It's just that they're replacing the existing XV-15 line of stealth suits. ;)

(but I adore 'em -- they look like they should actually be heftier and burlier than firewarriors, rather than the present situation: where they're wearing sculpted armor with a jetpack strapped to their back and a burst cannon strapped to their arm.)

[Shas'ui]

I see your point Dvalin but just in general they look too big. As one person said on warseer, they look like a lb. gorilla. Other than that I really don't think they are that bad.
Edit Now that I've looked at them for a while, I think that they are supposed to be the tau counter-part to the Terminator armor. Just a thought though.

[omega the end]

G-Damit!! They are FIRE WARIORS!!! They are just equiped with a stealth suit rather than traditional fire warrior armour!!! The new stuff is not in the least bit stealthy and if they claim these are stealth suits I will go beserk in the store and rip the shelves down!

[Dvalin]

And you'll be thrown out of the store and possibly slapped with a fine. Seriously, omega -- calm down. ;) It's a bunch of plastic and pewter -- not someone calling your mom a good lay.

As for fire warriors, well. Crisis teams are also fire warriors -- just equipped with crisis suits. Hammerheads, Devilfish? Oh, well. Just fire warriors in vehicles. My basic point is that they look like they're actually wearing full-on battlesuits in the same way that crisis suits are worn, instead of essentially being regular firewarriors with some extra gear strapped to them.

Anyway -- it's no matter to either of us. I like 'em, you don't. Such is life. You'll still be able to field XV-15s, while my Hunter Cadre will be going to the cutting-edge XV-25s. ;)

[chaudman]

I really like new 'gorrila' style models... but they just dnt look like stealth suits. If they are semi battle suits they'll be good but if not I'm dissapointed.

[Dvalin]

Well, according to some indications by Brimstone of Warseer, 1 for every 3 can take a fusion blaster (not 1 of 2, as was initially said) -- the team leader can be upgraded to a Shas'vre, and then can take battlesuit wargear options from the armory. You'll notice the slot atop the jetpack for a hardpoint, for instance, and how it's taken by a little domey thing on the fusion blaster suit. So -- yep; they're getting a little bit more battlesuity.

[Zodiack]

This is personal opinion but they look kinda like wannabe terminators...
So expect save 2+ or something :p as whit this much armor it cant possibly be 3+ when FW whit its funky armor have 3+ :p

Edit: And Ethreals look like they just got from Tomb Kings codex for WH fantasy ...

[TauMan]

Willey, I would have to agree with geckos, That argument is best saved for a better place(not hear) and time (never).

[Ap0k]

Out of curiosity, for all those complaining about how they dont 'look like stealth suits/look very stealthy/CAN'T SNEAK AROUND IN BUSHES LOOKING LIKE BIG GORILLA'S', just what should a stealth suit look like? I mean, what with it being the technology that makes them stealth, and with looks not having anything to do with it whatsoever.
Hell, to take an abstract real life example, Stealth Bombers aren't exactly inconspicuous...

That excuse just wont wash. If you don't like the models thats fair enough, but to be honest, they could be the size of a titan, with six arms and twelve heads and forty three guns, and as long as they have a stealth generator they are still 'stealthy'.

After seeing some good pics, they are growing on me. I definately like how they now bear a resemblance to crisis suits (check out the joint between the shoulderpad and elbow, along with a few other touches). Not sure how I feel about that bulb head guard type thing yet, but I reckon it's more to do with the paintjob, rather than the sculpt.

They aren't the Tau equivalent to Termies. Terms are big lumbering beasts, who can't jump around, and have a more powerful burst cannon, with people inside, not Tau, and can be seen from many miles around. Normal Fire Warriors don't have a 3+ save either, for that matter.

As far as the Ethereal direction goes, I can't say I'm a huge fan. It's drawing a little too much out of Aztec styled imagery. Lots of bling, big head dresses, and generally seem to be sculpted more to give the impression of walking gods (which, while that is true with the Tau to an extent, it seems like a little misrepresentation, or a cheap way of giving in to the stereotype).

My vote -
Stealths - Yae!
Aun's - Nae!

[Shas'ui]

Ok, Ap0k, to answer your inquery about why people are complaing about the new stealth suits not looking stealthy enough. I for one am on the fence about them but leaning towards the not stealthy side. My reasoning is mostly personal opinion and you do have a good point that it shouldn't matter what they look like because the enemy won't see them untill it's too late anyways. My only true gripe would have to be the head, like you, I think they look too bulbous. Fortunately, they are going to be plastic and I could probably change them to my liking if I so desire. So, to again answer your question, it all boils down to personal opinion for me.

[Ap0k]

So, to again answer your question, it all boils down to personal opinion for me.
Thats what it boils down to for everyone mate. I'm more concerned with people going "zomg not stealthy! teh enemeh will seez0r them from miles away!", which clearly is a rather insubstantial basis for an argument, especially when it would just be easier to say "I don't like them for this reason and that reason".

I do suspect these models will grow on me much like the Kroot have (I really really hated them at first), so it'll all probably turn out well in the end. They certainly open up a lot of options for posability (assuming one is competant with knives and glue and hand eye co-ordination), rather than being stuck with 4-5 versions of metal mini's. (Horrible story by the way. When I ordered the last of my stealths from GW, I bought blisters from the online store since it works out a little cheaper than buying individual models. I also, foolishly, figured that the Mail Order Trolls would have the good sense to pick a varied assortment, what with the fact I was ordering 10 or 12 or something. Suffice to say, I got at 5 of one sculpt, 5 of another, and whatever amount that were left were 'different'. I wasn't a happy bunny.)

[NeoHunter]

I think most people here are complaining that the new Stealth Suits are not stealth-like could be because of the small head and bulbous armor piece covering the suit from head to chest. I guess that is what is turning most people off here.

I wonder if the new XV22 Stealth Suits are going to completely replace the older XV15 Stealth Suits or will we still be able to use the both variants where each has their own set of rules?

[Shas'ui]

Suffice to say, I got at 5 of one sculpt, 5 of another, and whatever amount that were left were 'different'
Wow, that really sucks. I can only imagine the expression on your face when you open the package and saw all those wonderful stealths with only two poses. I would have been just a little mad. :soul:

[Ap0k]

Well, at least it gives me an excuse to never paint them, and buy new ones instead :D

[Zodiack]

Ap0k i told my opinion now when i am looking at them... i will tell you my true opinion once i buy them and see how they look like after painting them...
And also whit your theory if i put stealth generator on termy then he will be also stealthy like new XV15 or what will be its new name
For now head and torso (if there is diffrence between them) look like they are riped of from termy and thats my personal opinion

[NeoHunter]

There you go. People don't like the head and chest armor thingy. Don't really think it is a matter of whether the new Stealth Suits are stealth-like or not.

Too bad we can't just send an email or petition to Games Workshop telling them most of us hate the new Stealth Suit designs. :D

[Shas'ui]

Too bad we can't just send an email or petition to Games Workshop telling them most of us hate the new Stealth Suit designs
I don't think that'll happen any time soon. Even if we did, they would probably disregard it.

[Ap0k]

I had a witty response to that, but I'll not post it, since it'll just drag this further offtopic, and its one of those threads that wouldn't survive the cold harsh climate of Thread Purgatory.

Neohunter pretty much hit the nail on the head about what I was getting at.
People have legitimate reasons for liking or disliking them involving the style of the sculpt, or the design, or the size or whatever. Aesthetic reasons.
Others have stupid reasons, like not looking very 'stealthy', or... well.. thats about the only stupid reason so far. It's not an aesthetic reason for disliking them, it's because they look different to the old ones, which somehow look more 'stealthy' than the new ones, when its common knowledge that the shape of their suit has nothing to do with their stealth generator.

[Zodiack]

eum... i didnt tell that i dont like new stealths, they are good they just somehow remind me of termies armor :p

[NeoHunter]

On a side note (and a little funny one at that), with their heads sunken into that bulbous head and chest armor piece, how the hell do they actually turn their heads to look to their sides for enemy? Would be quite funny if they had to turn their entire body to see what is on their left and right? Much like a guy who came out of hospital with a neck brace, don't you think? Hahahaaha! :lol:

Anyway, ,I also read on Warseer forums that there is a probability that Rail Rifles will nto suffer the Gets Hot! rule. Does this mean more people will start to field the Tau Sniper Team?

By the way, I especially like the one with the Tau Pathfinder sniping with a Rail Rifle in a proning position. Reminds me of my army days firing an M16 rifle... :D

[omega the end]

I give up. You have your opinion, I have mine. So i'm just keep my opinion to myself if it involves the stealth suits. Good luck.

[Dvalin]

From Brimstone on Warseer:


Quote:

Originally Posted by my_name_is_tudor
It seems odd that they get so much larger with no major rules change.. why would the tau develop a larger suit when they have a smaller one that can do the same job?From

Yup exactly the same apart from the ability to carry new weapons and crisis battle suit technology.

I forgot to say that all stealths may take one battlesuit support system (if one takes then all must take although each can choose a different one).

(Of course the same applies to XV-15 suits but people are more likely to convert using the XV-25).

It's the same squad size as current so you can have a max of two fusions in a team.

[treeboy]

i wonder if there are going to be rules for both the stealth suits?
like the XV-15 would stay the same but the XV-25 would get a better armour/toughness value but lose the ability to move in the assult phase?

(and as for people saying that a fusion blaster on a stealth suit would be usless, they still can deep strike near to a tank and blow it up from there)

[Ap0k]

I forgot to say that all stealths may take one battlesuit support system
Targetting Array for the win!

and as for people saying that a fusion blaster on a stealth suit would be usless, they still can deep strike near to a tank and blow it up from there
Yep. They sure can. And then, the turn after that, they can die. Since they lose their assault hop by deepstriking. Thats also assuming you don't get a horrible scatter and end up out of range of your intended target in the first place of course...

[NeoHunter]

Yep. They sure can. And then, the turn after that, they can die. Since they lose their assault hop by deepstriking. Thats also assuming you don't get a horrible scatter and end up out of range of your intended target in the first place of course...
So you mean like use the Stealth Suits as kamikaze troops? A little too expensive, don't you think? Besides, Broadsides and Hammerheads can take care of those vehicles with their railguns.

And what can a Targeting Array do for troops? I don't remember them being a Battlesuit support system. I thought it was a vehicle support system...?

[VtraXx]

Brought to you by the New Tau Models releasing from GW in the coming months..

Alrighty!
After Coming from a long trip to Montreal!, I was able to go to Conflict and win another trophy WOO! 3 Trophies! (Pics to come later), But anyways All the pictures i got of the Conflict are in-fact within my Photobucket.

Conflict: Montreal Coverage (Click the Sub-Names) (http://photobucket.com/albums/v480/Vtraxx/Conflict%20Montreal/)

Alot of the New Models and releases for Tau, Dwarves, a New GIANT, and more BT Stuff In there, Plus some Warpstone Goodness.

Anyways Enjoy the Pictures, and I'll be sure to post pictures of my winning entry (Updated pics), anyways Bye for now!
Vtraxx Out

[Gru6y]

http://photobucket.com/albums/v480/Vtraxx/Conflict%20Montreal/Conflict%20Games/?action=view&current=DSC02282.jpg
I wish this pic wasn't so blurry. From what I can see, they're great.

[Gru6y]

http://photobucket.com/albums/v480/Vtraxx/Conflict%20Montreal/Warpstone%20Painting%20Compietition/?action=view&current=DSC02294.jpg
This is a nice way to build a DIY chaos warhound. And it probably costs half the FW price. The only thing it lacks is a battle cannon instead of the hook ;)

[MaD_hAmiSh]

Looks like a mixture of Land Raider, Sentinel, and Defiler to me. Some nice stuff in there, I recognize the Raven Gaurd captain guy you posted earlier.

[Dante]

I don't like the head. :sick:

VtraxX, what 3 trophies did you win???

[Ap0k]

My bad, I forgot to put the tags around my post.

And yes, Targetting Array was exclusive to vehicles. ;)

[Terminal Dogma]

Didn't Craftworld Altansar make a reapperance?

[VtraXx]

Actually Dante I won 3 trophies overall now from may to now.

The Blood Ravens Deathwatch marine won neophyte

And the DIY Chaos Titan is meant to be a Predator, for Boltman's new Deathguard army (Vincent Hudon).

And Sorry if the new models are old news, Just wanted to get pictures for you guys *painted* versions from Montreal.

VtrAxx Out

[NeoHunter]

And yes, Targetting Array was exclusive to vehicles.
Was? Meaning? Was there a change in the Codex: Tau when I wasn't looking?

[Ap0k]

No, there was an addition in IA3.

[Dvalin]

And, according to reputable sources, the IA3 crisis suit costs and information is accurate for Codex: Tau Empires.

Note, also, that crisis suit teams don't list bonding in IA3, Ap0k. The rumor has it that battlesuit teams will get bonding for free. Handy, neh?

[NeoHunter]

Wow...bonding for free eh? Well, ,I guess it should be since Crisis Suit pilots are sort of veterans and will not run away from battle that easily.

[Ap0k]

Merging threads is evil. EVIL

"Lets take two seperate, reasonably coherent threads, and dump into one big mass of semi-random posts!"

A better option in my opinion, and much preferable one, would have been to lock one thread, and provide a link to the 'main' one from the locked version, thereby redirecting discussion to a relavent area of the board, whilst not making people (like myself) confused about why responses don't actually seem to respond to the person who last posted (since not everyone sees the need to quote the person who originally replied above them).

[thesilent1]

I dont know about you guys, but the Tau are starting to strike a resemblance with the Covenent for me...


Wow Slick, I had the EXACT same thought...

anyway, my feelings for the vespid have slightly changed (due to the newer paint schemes in these pics), and I LOVE those new stealth suits. They go well with the whole mechanized feel of the Tau. The original ones I liked, but I always thought that their fusion blaster would be impossible to carry. With these new suits, it just seems normal to me.

*silence*

[ironclawed1]

from what I have heard from some people who have connections the ork codex may be out next summer, and the eldar is the next official codex, the Tau empires is just a setup for a summer battle tour. much like codex armagedon, and codex eye of terror.

aperently eldar will have a whole apendix dedicated to spells for farseers and warlockes, if u can beleive the rumours?

I guess we will see.

[NeoHunter]

I always thought that Stealth Suits were good for gunning down infantry units and using their Markerlights. I would never put them anywhere near an enemy vehicle.

Now that they have introduced the option for Fusion Blasters for the Stealth Suit leader, I am thinking to myself "Can he actually survive that long to get up close and fire that Fusion Blaster in the first place?"

I will not save anything about this at the moment until I see the new stats for the new Stealth Suits.

[SocialSecurity]

So the Wargear codex will be outdated. Why buy it? :P

[NeoHunter]

Good question.

*ponders*

I have absolutely no idea why Games Workshop would want to release the Wargear book. Maybe most of the weapons there will be unaffected?

[cfoley]

The Wargear will help players who don't want to buy all the codexes to learn their enemies. It's all a bit redundant, though; reference sheets are available online. Here is the Imperial Guard's sheet (http://uk.games-workshop.com/imperialguard/reference/).

Perhaps the Wargear book will have pretty pictures or background that isn't available elsewhere.

[NeoHunter]

Perhaps the Wargear book will have pretty pictures or background that isn't available elsewhere.
Ohhh...I love pretty pictures....

I sense we are going a little off topic here?

[Ap0k]

I am thinking to myself "Can he actually survive that long to get up close and fire that Fusion Blaster in the first place?"

Magic 8-ball says: "Not likely".

Fusions and stealth, while seeming like a good idea, are completely pointless (unless your tables have plenty of cover to hop behind, but you're still setting yourself up to be assaulted the following turn by anything that can fleet/assault 12"). The stats on the unit haven't changed, so they'll be the same as before.

[Tinweasel]

Librarium Online pics (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50681)
Dakka Dakka pics (http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/93/forumid/6/postid/3532/view/topic/Default.aspx)
VtraXx's Conflict Montreal pics (http://photobucket.com/albums/v480/Vtraxx/Conflict%20Montreal/)

I sense we are going a little off topic here?So long as the discussion remains centered around the new GW/Tau releases, and it's relevant to the pics that have been posted or moved to this thread... it's good by me, personally.


Myself, I like the new Stealth sculpts - they look a little more solid and a bit more like a Crisis armor variant - probably allow for lots of Tau iconography on the armor panels. Can't say much for Shadowsun, however, and I think the new Ethereal looks a bit too much like one the annoying green-skinned toady aliens of the Trade Federation from Star Wars IV... but that's just me.

What I'd like to see is a few pewter Fire Warrior Shas'ui figures - now that'd be useful! I'm also wondering if there's going to be a change to the existing Shield Drone figures, as the current ones are available but never seem to be advertised.

[cfoley]

This (http://uk.games-workshop.com/sneakpeeks/warhammer40000/default.htm) preview is hardly worth it due to poor picture quality but it is the most official of the recent pictures so I thought I'd share it with you.

[Shas'ui]

Why are they addopting the Skyray version of the Hammerhead?

[chaudman]

Im not sure but the front squad of battlesuits looks like it has new weapons.

[treeboy]

Ugh...I wanted a new tank but not the skyray!!!... On forge world it says its an anti aircraft tank!!!

forge world tau vehicles (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/TAU_VEHICLES.html) see? next to it, it says
"The Skyray provides vital anti aircraft defense for Fire Caste hunter cadres"

How many Armies in 40k actually have airborne units? And how much of a bitch is that missile rack going to be to put together?

[A7X]

ermm..its got markerlighters and seeker missiles on it...ie it has 36" range and the seeker missles are stregth 8 with no Ap value..i think (i havent played Tau since they came out)

[Ap0k]

Skyrays carry 6 seekers, with networked markerlights, which basically means you can markerlight for the seekers with anything (that has a markerlight) and use the skyray markers for other units, whcih may or may not be beneficial. I recently theorycrafted a seeker alpha strike list and it was mediocre, so unless things change I can't see them replacing hammerheads as the 'weapon of choice' for Tau heavy support.

[A7X]

Tau need to be more tank based i think...like the gaurd but with floating tanks! so i really wanna see more tank designs for the Tau..shame they didnt make more... :(:(:(

[NeoHunter]

ermm..its got markerlighters and seeker missiles on it...ie it has 36" range and the seeker missles are stregth 8 with no Ap value..i think (i havent played Tau since they came out)
Seeker Missiles have unlimited range, Strength 8 , Armor Piercing 3.

[mortifactor]

Yeah... of all the forge world tanks for tau, why the skyray? I mean, you can exhaust it's primary weapon in one turn. Great... yeah. I really want that. It's not like it's supply of seeker missiles is that much greater than any other vehicle can field...

[NeoHunter]

Yeah... of all the forge world tanks for tau, why the skyray? I mean, you can exhaust it's primary weapon in one turn. Great... yeah. I really want that. It's not like it's supply of seeker missiles is that much greater than any other vehicle can field...
If you put it that way, well, that would mean all those missile units like the Whirlwind will also have limited missiles?

[cfoley]

No. It used to but I don't think it is limited any more.

[NeoHunter]

That's what I thought as well. I mean, it is not logical game-wise to make the number of missiles your vehicle (be it Skyray or Whirlwind) can fire. Games are meant for fun. The missile racks or the number of Seeker Missiles you have there are just a representation of what weapons your vehicle currently has. Think of it as more of eye candy than anything else.

On the other hand, IF Games Workshop does say each vehicle has limited missiles and you have to purchase more missiles before the start of the game, I think it would be slightly interesting to see how players will play the game. Spend more points to get more missiles or save it for other troops and use your vehicle as a blockade for some small passage once it has exhausted all its missiles. :D

Anyway, back to the topic.

Regarding the new Tau Ethereal Special Character (oh whatever his long name is), he is supposed to have some special effect on nearby troops or the whole Tau army as a whole when you field him?

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

Methinks my b'day money (Feb 24 :p) will be going to Tau Empires. Pirahna going mainstream is fan-frikkin-tastic, stealths don't look too bad, I'd like to see the skyray have a lower AP value and unlimited missiles, Shadowsun rocks (pastels don't), the new ethereal sculpts are decent IMO, and I'm going to have to decide between Biel-Tan (Banshee style) and more Tau...OH NOES!!

EDIT: D'you think the drone that follows Shadowsun is special. It's in the concept pic of her too, so I think it might be...
ooo, look, a fin!!!

[Ap0k]

It's some sort of special drone (the name eludes me at the minute) that allows her to fire her Twin fusion blasters (note: not Twinlinked) at seperate targets.

On the Skyray.
What I know of it from IA3 is that the rules they presented there were designed with Tau: Empire in mind. That is, it will have limited shots (6). The whole point of them having new codex options in IA3 was so that it didn't become obsolete when the new 'dex came out. Now, that could well have been tested, and then changed, between IA3 release and the new codex, but I'm not holding my breath.

[blaesa]

Skyrays carry 6 seekers, with networked markerlights, which basically means you can markerlight for the seekers with anything (that has a markerlight) and use the skyray markers for other units, whcih may or may not be beneficial. I recently theorycrafted a seeker alpha strike list and it was mediocre, so unless things change I can't see them replacing hammerheads as the 'weapon of choice' for Tau heavy support.

Nearly right. The markers on the IA Skyray can only be used with the seekers on the Skyray, removing any utility it would otherwise have.

[Ap0k]

Networked markers seem to allow pathfinders to mark for them. It doesn't state so in the blurb on Skyrays in the unit section in IA, but it does mentioned that in AA mode it's seekers can be fired at flyers if another model in the army has hit it with a markerlight (hitting on a 6 though, rather than using their normal BS). I take this to apply to the whole shindig, rather than being AA mount specific. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but then would be an entirely useless addition to the game, alongisde being completely pointless.

[Ardias]

Personaly I would only take a skyray in a mega battle, where you can put a few of them in one spot and then wait. On one nice turn when the pathfinders, or whoever else are in range you marklight and the skyray fires of the 10 seeker missles, or you can use it in tandam with an ally who got a few nice marklights.

Note they can have 10 seeker missles because you are allowed to put 4 on any tau vech, plus the 6 that come with the skyray turret.

[NeoHunter]

Note they can have 10 seeker missles because you are allowed to put 4 on any tau vech, plus the 6 that come with the skyray turret.
Are you sure this 4 Seeker Missile Rule will apply to the Skyray as well? My understanding is that it applies to Devilifish transports only.

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

Devilfish and Hammerheads currently, but it could, and problably will, be changed in the new 'dex.

[Inst]

Hey, after your skyray fires all its missiles, how else can you use it? Say, can't you use it as a barricade in front of your tau troops after they've fired? Can it attempt to run down infantry?

I really like the notion of a model that is useful only for the first turn, then after that, you have to get creative.

[NeoHunter]

Normally, what I wouldd do after my Skyray has fired all its missiles is to purposely move it to those small openings at one of my flanks and leave it there. Then, the enemy has to either shoot it down or ignore it. Either way, it will block the flank opening and forces them to come in by the centre where I can focus my fire at. Hehehe...I know. Despicable but its legal.

[Inst]

Not really, in Advance Wars, a TBS for the Game Boy Advance, people do it all the time. They deploy their APC on the FRONT, instead of sending the infantry forward to take the damage. Now, your opponent will have to destroy the APC before they can get to the infantry. In the rules of Advance Wars, an infantry that is deployed from an APC cannot attack on the same turn. So the infantry unit is protected slightly until the next turn. Of course, the APC costs up to 5 times more than the infantry it just deployed, so this might not be exactly smart.

Actually, the goal of a skyray user, should be to manage to destroy a something nearing the skyray's points cost through its hunter seeker guided missiles, then use it as a moving shield.

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

And tank shocking...mmm, tank shocking...

[cfoley]

I don't know how expensive the skyray is but I would imagine that there is probably more value in keeping it alive rather than risking it in the occasional tank shock.

[NeoHunter]

I don't know how expensive the skyray is but I would imagine that there is probably more value in keeping it alive rather than risking it in the occasional tank shock.
Hmm...I noticed the Skyray also has Smart Missile Systems on both sides of the forward bow. Guess once its supply of Seeker Missiles are exhuasted, it will still be useful to blast other things...

[treeboy]

if it does have limited seeker missiles then its not going to be worth it, (if i remember correctly) you can put up to 4 seeker missiles on each tank. so if i take a path finder squad i can then put 4 on the devil fish on there, if i take a hammer head, 4 on that. i've already got more shots with that and its most likley cheeper than the skyray.

[ColonelBorissov]

There is units with limited weapons. Not exactly common, but the Manticore cruise missile launcher has only 4 missiles per game.

It would only be useful if it had more missiles, really. The Manticore missiles are devastating 300" range ordnance barrage, not glorified hunter killers. It would have to have at least 12 of them to be viable.

[Sir Guppy]

yeah but the manticore missile have a minimum range of 36" they are only really meant for special games

i wouldnt be suprised if the skyray had simple missile launchers with tau adaptations

[Stealthlazer]

Yes new Tau!

I wonder if those guns wil be useful up close? We could do with a Fast Attack choice that can hold it's own in Close Combat or at least can do a raid.

[NeoHunter]

I wonder if those guns wil be useful up close? We could do with a Fast Attack choice that can hold it's own in Close Combat or at least can do a raid.
Which of the new Tau units are you referring to?

[Dvalin]

Vespids, I'm sure. They're evidently about as good in CC as Guardsmen -- which is to say fair, except that plenty of races are about CC monsters; Tyranids and Orcs just out-do them flat out, Spacemarines are universally superior despite being not specifically CC, Eldar CC is superior by virtue of specialization, Necrons are tougher, and Guardsmen, well.. Guardsmen -were- average, once upon a time. Now they're bottom of the rung.

[Dvalin]

And a little nudge -- new sneak previews of the spotter and his railrifle drones at the Sneak Peeks section of the UK GW site!

http://uk.games-workshop.com/sneakpeeks/warhammer40000/default.htm

[NeoHunter]

Erm...I was wondering. What happens to the Tau at the controls when all 3 Tau Sniper Drones are destroyed? Play Winter Assault on his machine? :D

[Dvalin]

Evidently he'll have a markerlight. So? He'll keep markerlighting. ;)

[Piccolo]

Unless the skyray becomes a razorback style transport for tau then it will not every really be useful. Pretty much like all the other Forgeworld vehicles, much too niche oriented.

Also after the drones are killed the tau at the controls uses his machine to read my tactica so he knows what he did wrong.

[cfoley]

I'm more interested in knowing what happens to the drones if the guy at the controls gets killed. Time will tell.

[Piccolo]

I would wager a guess that thanks to changes in the majority toughness/save rules the drones MUST die first.

[Dvalin]

Piccolo -- but what about Vindicares? I think that's the point of the question, anyway. ;)

[TauMan]

I know this is a late reply on the new stealths, but i think that they look even better now and that they are even deadlier with the fusion blaster all it does is make them a better harasment tool.

[NeoHunter]

Also after the drones are killed the tau at the controls uses his machine to read my tactica so he knows what he did wrong.
:lol:

[mortifactor]

Pretty much like all the other Forgeworld vehicles, much too niche oriented.

Hmm.... you think the same about those smaller scout vehicles? I didn't think those were too niche-y to be useful. Now, if they had some good weapon options they would be down right multi-purpose mandatory to fill roles that crisis suits might be unsuited for...

Of course, I say that without ever having tried to use them in a game, but then I never use 'forge world only' stuff in my games. As bitz for models, sure, but if the rules ain't GW I don't use 'em...

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

Just a quick question, how good is IA3, and is it worth forking out the cash for it? I do play tau btw, so it would have a purpose.

[Dvalin]

If you're going to do Tau BFG, it's practically mandatory -- has stats for all those nifty Forgeworld ships. If you're just doing WH40K Tau, it's still very nice. I pitched for it and don't mind it at all -- but then again I love military history, sooo.

[Ap0k]

I picked up an advance order copy (signed and all) and haven't regretted it. Nice fluff (albeit horrible grammar in places) for Tau and a little more info on Raptors (who I've had an interest in for a while), as well as, what was then, a sneak preview on some of the new points costs and wargear.

If you've got the cash to spare, it's a good resource to have. Certainly not mandatory, and it's not a 'must-have' buy, but you probably wouldn't regret it.

[NeoHunter]

Oh yeah. I thought I remember reading somewhere that Pirahnas will be available as standard Tau vehicles and not ForgeWorld exclusive in the upcoming Codex: Tau Empire. Is that true? Can anybody confirm or deny this?

[Dvalin]

NeoHunter; it's been about as solidly confirmed as possible without the GW studio saying "Yep, they're in" -- the Pirahna's been sighted in one of the sneak preview pictures, which would either mean that they're in the codex or that it's the first time ever that FW models have been in a Studio release picture without the vehicle in fact being in the codex.

[NeoHunter]

I see. Well, guess the Tau are going to have one Fast Attack vehicle like the Space Marines Landspeeder.

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

And the Eldar Vyper...

[mortifactor]

Well, to be honest, I think the Tau needed more options, especially in fast attack. For a 'mobile' army they were very sadly lacking in that department.

Of course, if they had just snuck the stealth suits into fast attack, I wouldn't have complained either... (mm... 18 stealths and three squads of crisis suits... yummy....)

As long as I see more options that actually.. you know... work, I'll be happy.

[Ap0k]

Mmmmm. 36 stealth suits.

*thinks*
108 shots, 54 hits, 36 wounds vs T4. Yummy!

And that would be the precise reason they aren't Fast Attack :P

[NeoHunter]

Mmmmm. 36 stealth suits.

*thinks*
108 shots, 54 hits, 36 wounds vs T4. Yummy!

And that would be the precise reason they aren't Fast Attack :P
Hmm...interesting tactic but expensive I think.

Anyway, Stealth Suits along can't get rid of vehicles.

Try this when the new Codex: Tau Empire comes out.

36 XV25 Stealth Suits. Shas'vre gets Fusion Blaster. You split the 36 Stealth Suits into teams of 4. So that means you can get 9 Shas'vre. That's 9 Fusion Blasters to go around. Try to Infiltrate and blast those vehicles. Pray very very hard that your Shas'vre can get into range though.

Anyway, got a question about Railguns. What kind of weapons are they? Are they projectile based or energy based?

[Dvalin]

Railguns use electromagnetic propulsion for a metal slug -- basically, replace the explosive propellent with a propellent system that's built into the gun.

[Chake99]

Rail-guns are slug hurlers that use electro-magnets in the gun for propulsion.

[NeoHunter]

So, they are basically projectile based weapons.

If that is the case, ,let me bring your attention to the new XV88-2 Broadside Suit from ForgeWorld.

I am assuming those belts connecting the railguns to the backpack are feeding the metal slugs? Wonder where the railgun draws its power from then to fire those metal slugs.

[[Vertigo]]

Actually, looking at the ammo feed for those Forgeworld Railguns and then considering the shape of the barrel it makes me wonder just what the Tau are shooting through those Railguns. Metal plates anyone? GIANT METAL FRISBEES!

Well all projectile weapons work the same way. Just get a pointy stick moving fast enough to piece the armor or flesh of what you want to kill. Every modern day inovation in killing has just been getting that pointy stick even more pointy and moving much faster. A Railgun is just a less pointy stick moving really really really really fast.

[Piccolo]

many current militaries are working on rail-guns. Typically they are using Aluminum slugs that are rapidly accelerated by magnets to speeds that WILL ignite the air around the slug.

Nothing beats a SILENT weapon that can hit from massive range.

[NeoHunter]

If I remember correctly, aluminium is not magnetic. So how do you accelerate it to super speeds by use of magnetic propulsion?

And yes. Destroyinng tanks from incredible distances without the enemy hearing the launching of the projectile is A-1 SUPAR:!:

[Piccolo]

I am not sure on all the specifics, but I do recall that the main portion that is the projectile is aluminum in alot of the ones being used now. Probably an alloy that is magnetic. The low weight is the important part, makes it easier to throw REALLY REALLY FAST.

[mortifactor]

Actually, a low weight is not as useful, as the round looses momentum too fast, especially when trying to punch through something denser. A lower velocity, heavier round tends to be more effiecent at 'killing stuff'...

[Shas'ui]

That may be true but since the round is heavier, it will not travel as far, especially if it is travelling at a slower velocity. Idealy, you want a dense, lightweight round travelling at high velocity. That way, you get some of the effects of both a heavy and lightweight round. Unfortunately, not everything is ideal and we have to sacrafice somethings.

[Dvalin]

The travel distance of a projectile is determined by a few factors -- initial speed (and acceleration, if any), aerodynamics, angle of firing and gravity. Mass has an indirect effect -- if, for instance, mass is gained by increasing the size of an object, then its wind resistance will be detrimented and the projectile is likely to fall shorter. If, however, mass is increased by use of different alloys -- depleted uranium compared to aluminum, say, there's likely to be little effect on wind resistance. Mass also influences the amount of energy needed to reach a certain speed -- for example, a heavier projectile accelerated by the same amount of energy as a smaller projectile will have a lower velocity and so travel a lower distance before being pulled to the ground.

Anyway...

[Shas'ui]

Well, we could get into a rather large discussion about the principles and phyics involved with projectiles but that is probably better left for another thread.

[Ap0k]

Not to be a party pooper, but Railgun technology isn't exactly related to "Guys! New Tau/GW Stuff!!! Check Them Out!

As interesting a discussion as it is, the best place for it would be the fluff boards (or possibly science-for-tau.mod.net (incidentally... thats not a real address)).

To try and get things back on track...

Hmm...interesting tactic but expensive I think.
No more expensive than 3 squads of 3 Crisis + 3 squads of 6 stealth.

I agree though, that stealths alone can't get rid of vehicles. Thats why we have hammerheads! Or possibly markerlighting Stealth 'Vre's alongside Skyrays (which isn't particularly cunning by the way).

Try this when the new Codex: Tau Empire comes out...<chopped middle out for ease of quote>...Pray very very hard that your Shas'vre can get into range though.
Not going to be possible. 9 stealth squads would mean you would have to somehow be able to take them as troops, which isn't particularly likely (but would rock oh so very very much).

I doubt very much that stealth allowance or squad sizes will change under 4th ed. Tau, but apparently all members of XV25 teams can have access to wargear, which opens up possibilities for 3 with T-Arrays, and 3 with drone controllers and 2 drones each (6 drones total), thus giving you, effectively, almost an extra 5 men into the squad (11 stealths average 16.5 hits. 6 stealths with T-arrays will average 12 hits, and 6 drones will add another 3.3 hits to the total, meaning 15.3 hits with 6 stealths and 6 drones). Expensive though (albeit not much more expensive than another 5 stealths, I think), and very hard to hide effectively.

Such is the price of cannon fodder.

[NeoHunter]

If that is the case, then I think I will stick with just a squad or two of Stealth Suits and try to invest more in other units like Fire Warrior squads or Crisis Suits or Hammerheads.

Think I will get myself a Tau Sniper Team when it comes out. They look so cool. Then that Tau plugging his head into that arcade machine. Heheehehe...did they say that the Sniper Drones carry Rail Rifles? I think that would be cool if they do not suffer the "Gets Hot!" rule and still retain the Pinning rule. You cann really slow down the enemy's momentum with these. Especially the faster moving Tyranids I think.

[Piccolo]

Pinning DOES NOT WORK. All the reasons for having it are bascially voided by the fact that all the units it is designed to help you against typically have lovely special rules in their armies that get them around it.

[Dvalin]

Yep; Tyranids, for instance, are fearless when in synapse range -- and so it's no use there. Marines? Well, let's say you hit a marine squad with 4 markerlights -- and then with a full squad of drone carbines; BS 4 twinlinked with 2 markerlights, so presumably 7 hits, 4 wounds, 1 or 2 unsaved. Yay! Leadership test! Now, with a -2 for the 2 unused markerlights giving a malus to pinning tests... hm. Against 8 if he's using a force commander for universal leadership 10, with about a 60% success rate. Now, let's say you had just tried to kill the squad instead...

[[Vertigo]]

If I remember correctly, aluminium is not magnetic.


Current research with super magnets shows that everything is affected by magnetic fields. It is just getting the magnetic field strong enough to affect what you want. For example they have a small super-electromagnet that is capable of levitating frogs and other small creatures in the Earth's gravity field. Mind you the power requirements for that simple trick is staggering.


I am not too hot about the sniper team's pinning rules they never seem to work out all that well; but the strength and AP of those weapons is nothing to sneeze at. The pinning test is more of icing on the cake then anything else. I kind of like the way the new Stealth Suits look. They have a very unique look to them now.

[NeoHunter]

For example they have a small super-electromagnet that is capable of levitating frogs and other small creatures in the Earth's gravity field. Mind you the power requirements for that simple trick is staggering.
Hmm...am I sensing the future invention of artificial gravity on future space shuttles and space stations???

As for power requirements, would a small nuclear reactor be sufficient? Like maybe the size of your fridge? It could very well fit onto a space shuttle. If the astronauts don't mind flying up there with a nuclear bomb in the same shuttle as them...

Pinning DOES NOT WORK. All the reasons for having it are bascially voided by the fact that all the units it is designed to help you against typically have lovely special rules in their armies that get them around it.
So I guess we can throw those Rail Rifles and Pulse Carbines out the window. Main Tau tactic I assume would be to have as many guns pointed at the enemy as possible and killing as many as possible before they get into melee range. Sweet. Maybe the Tau need more pie plate type of weapons.

[Dvalin]

NeoHunter; throw the rail rifles out? Oh, gods, no! Those guns are principally about killing marines; pinning's just a handy side-effect, as Vertigo said. Now, the pulse carbines.. those can go, sure. ;)

[Zanshin]

You don't know how many enemies I've killed with those rail rifles. Not only are they strong enough to kill marines instantly, people that I play against tend to focus on them more than anything else. The sniper team would be good for taking out some enemies, causing problems and being a distraction, while you get everything else in order!

[Piccolo]

The sniper team may be usefull but in their only current use, pathfinders, the rail rifle is not the uber marine killer it looks like.

In order for you to have 1 rail rifle you must pay 138 points, now granted getting the full 3 is only 20 points more but that is a substantial investment for a heavy weapon that is really only heavy against infantry.

Tau lack the shooting skills to really benefit from limited heavy weapons.

Even at 3 rail rifles you need to kill OVER 10 marines in a game to earn back their investment. Considering if you shoot EVERY turn of a 6 turn game you will only get 9 hits on average you are in a losing equation here.

Even if you bulk out the squad and buy some seekers you are then spending more points and splitting your focus, and thereby ability to acoomplish 1 job well.

Tau can't waste points one what people think is important, if your friends waste time on them fine, but get into a serious game setting with skilled players and point sinks get ignored.

[NeoHunter]

Over 10 Marines?! That is sort of difficult to do. It would sound to me that the Rail Rifles are BARELY worth their price there.

Good thing I have not collected any Pathfinders with Rail Rifles yet. But I may make an exception for the Sniper Team. Mostly on the fact that they look cool together and may eventually end up being decoration on my shelf or something.

[Warcrier]

of course piccolo, you ar speaking of generic marines. Its when those damn rifles take out something more expensive, liek a Veteran, or an Assault marine, hell even a Biker. And bikers cost more then twice over a normal marine. So say youre three snipers take out a 3 man biker unit over a few turns, thats at least 115 points right there, plus the fact that the nit would mos tliek have another 30 points spent on a Vet Sgt and another 6 on melta bombs or 20 on melta guns or plasmas. Theyve got their uses...

[Dvalin]

Anyway -- once the new codex comes out, the principle source of railrifles will be sniper drone teams -- up to 9 railrifles for ~180 points in one heavy support slot, with bs 3 and a chance to get markerlight bonuses. That, to me, suddenly sounds much more useful than a pathfinder squad that will cost at least ~140 to get one, or ~160 to get three rail rifles. Doing the comparison of one railgun Hammerhead vs. 9 rail rifles, one may well see a bit of use to these new drones.

[NeoHunter]

Erm...Dvalin...your last statement about Hammerheads VS 9 rail rifles...

Doing the comparison of one railgun Hammerhead vs. 9 rail rifles, one may well see a bit of use to these new drones.
...may not be correct since Rail Rifles cannot punch through tank armor. You will still need the Hammerhead and its Railgun.

[Dvalin]

A clarification. I had been thinking in terms of sacrificing one Hammerhead of the standard 3 for the railrifle teams-- so think of it as 2 hammerheads and 9 sniper drones vs. 3 hammerheads. Pardon.

[NeoHunter]

Well, I an see where you are going now.

Hmm...might be good but still, if you are facnig someone who likes to field lots of vehicles, you may want to stick to 3 Hammerheads. If its against Tyranids or some army with lots of infantry, maybe bring in those Sniper Drones.

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

Even against a horde army, the pie plate would win out IMO, especially against 'nids.

[Dvalin]

Ah -- but what about marine armies that are light on tanks? The group I face usually brings Dreadnoughts and Landspeeders, but no Predators or Landraiders. Two railguns, as such, should be decent -- while those 6 or 9 railrifles will do a number on his infantry rather quickly, by virtue of AP3, and so give me an advantage that'll tell quite well over the course of the game.

[NeoHunter]

I think Piccolo would tell you to have more Fire Warriors with more Pulse Rifles to deal with those Space Marines.

But who knows? :D

[Dvalin]

Well. Estimated cost of sniper teams presently stands at ~60 per -- for 3 bs 3 rail rifles and a bs 4 networked markerlight. Two teams would stand at 120, the approximate cost of a full-strength firewarrior squad at 130. One may contend that 6 rail rifles are likely to cause more MEQ casualties than 12 pulse rifles, and so the drones are a better marine-killing tool than the firewarriors on a point-by-point basis.

Now, there is some concern with the survivability of a comparitively smaller unit -- we don't know if the sniper drones, for instance, will have a stealth field, assault move, or anything to that effect. As such, they may be expensive casualties in the making. Still, it's worth noting that the drones do exist as a more efficient marine-killing unit.

[Ap0k]

Their usefulness is also dependant on the metagame in your area as well. If, for example, you play on cover heavy boards, you want to be rolling as many dice as you can, since that AP3 will be useless against cover saves. Still, it'll be interesting to see how they turn out. I'm not holding my hopes up for a team of them to be replacing my 3rd Head.

[NeoHunter]

Does the Sniper Team use Markerlights for the Sniper Drones to hit their targets? If so, wouldn't a Marked target not benefit from cover saves?

Whatever it is, I will still be getting a Sniper Team if just for displaying purposes.

[Ap0k]

Even if it does, the new rules apparently lose the markerlight ignoring cover save bonus. Instead we get each markerlight can: 1) Reduce the targets leadership by 1 for the purposes of pinning tests, 2) Allow one of your units to raise their ballistic skill by 1, 3) Reduce the cover save of the target unit by 1.

Not a bad tradeoff, but you're paying a lot more to reduce cover saves now, dependant on what you shoot with. I'll probably do some mathhammer on it once I see the codex in front of me, since it's all just rumour at the minute (albeit hanging at the 'almost guaranteed ' end of the rumour spectrum).

[NeoHunter]

Well, it won't be long before the new Codex: Tau Empire is released. Feburary is it?

Anyway, I would never use Markerlights to target infantry. They are best used on vehicles. After that, combo that with a Railgun shot from the Hammerhead or Broadside at a roll of 2+.

But who knows? Maybe I will even use the Sniper Team on special characters. :D

By the way, it has been sometime since we heard anything new from the rumor mill about the new Tau. :lonely:

[thesilent1]

http://us.games-workshop.com/news/sneakpeek/40K/image1.jpg


ladies and gentlement, I bring you a prophet of the Covenant from Halo *cough hack gag* er I mean a special character for ze Tau.

[chaudman]

3 words. Pope on a drone, no wait thats 4.

[-V-]

Shizer! The Tau are basically a rip-off of the Covenan from Halo! Where will Microsoft's legal department look next!

[Touristo]

I swear, that pic he looks like he's nodding off. Does he have an alarm clock wargear option?

[Dante]

Again, he is supposed to be the Pope. :D

Old age spares no one and ignores racial and social barriers!

;)

[Piccolo]

In better news, it is official. The piranha will be in a plastic kit. I have seen the release schedule and it is one of the early items on the list. Sadly the plastic stealths are not on the list I have seen yet. Might be a later release.

[NeoHunter]

I also saw on the Warseer forums that there may be an option for Commander Battlesuit pilots to eject?! Also, heard from a friend that there will now be two variants of the Crisis Suits. One is the normal Crisis Suits that we all love (or hate because of the static pose) and the other is the Commander only variant which will have additional funky stuff.

[Ap0k]

The commander suits will have access to the special weapons/equipment (Air bursting fragmentation gun and cyclonic ion blaster or whatever their names are). Ejection systems in suits generally mean that when the suit dies, the pilot can eject and if he makes it off the table then your opponent only gets half VP's for the kill if I remember the R'Myr rules correctly.

[NeoHunter]

The commander suits will have access to the special weapons/equipment (Air bursting fragmentation gun and cyclonic ion blaster or whatever their names are). Ejection systems in suits generally mean that when the suit dies, the pilot can eject and if he makes it off the table then your opponent only gets half VP's for the kill if I remember the R'Myr rules correctly.
Air bursting fragmentation guns? Cyclonic ion blasters?

I hear fun toys coming for the Tau!!!

[BrianGeneral]

In the GW Sneakpeak Shadowsun made his appearance, with dual Fusion Blasters.
Other than the weapon he held, the suit rocks!

[MooFreaky]

3 railheads is still superior to 2 railheads and the 9 railguns. They are more versatile.
Firstly the Railheads have range and maneuverability. They can stay out of LoS and hit those tanks while remaining out of range of any effective counter.

Plus that pie plate allows them to then switch targets to infantry. All the while being too far away to counter effectively.

Even against infantry heavy MEQ armies that is better than the snipers. They are more protected, can get where they are needed better and still do similar levels of damage.

If you are making a Tournie army, I especially can't see the 3 railhead combo being replaced...

[NeoHunter]

In the GW Sneakpeak Shadowsun made his appearance, with dual Fusion Blasters.
Other than the weapon he held, the suit rocks!
Yub yub! The Commander Shadowsun miniature is cool.

By the way, Commander Shadowsun is a female Tau. So its a "HER" and not "HIS"

I wonder what defenses she will have so that she can get close enough to use her twin Fusion Blasters.

[Ap0k]

2 shield drones.

Bye Bye IC status.

[NeoHunter]

2 shield drones.

Bye Bye IC status.
Are you sure? I don't remember seeing 2 Shield Drones accompanying her. She has a custom drone though.

[Ap0k]

I'm sure (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=375646&postcount=22) :P

She wouldn't have been an IC with that other drone thingy anyways I guess, but still. It makes me sad. (Not that dual wielding Fusion blasters are actually that hot anyway)

[NeoHunter]

She wouldn't have been an IC with that other drone thingy anyways I guess, but still. It makes me sad. (Not that dual wielding Fusion blasters are actually that hot anyway)
Not really a fan of Fusion Blasters when I found out that they were SUPER SHOR RANGED weapons.

Just going to collect Commander Shadowsun for the fact that the miniature looks cool and interesting as a display.

[Ap0k]

Well, one thing I am especially curious about, is the length of the barrels on hers. The new Stealth Fusions use the same template as the current crisis models, but hers have that little extension bit on them. [speculation mode] It could, therefore, turn out that she's wielding long barrelled fusions, and that would give her about a 24" range if I'm right, which is just about perfect to make use of her stealth field. [/speculation mode]

[[Vertigo]]

The melta versus the multimelta, Ap0k? Hmmm, you think GW would give the Tau access to a weapon like that on the Stealth Suits new leader model?

[Ap0k]

Well, I don't know. It's pure speculation on my part, but I can see no other reason they would move away from the 'standard issue' Fusions in Shadowsuns case. It seems (to me) even more likely considering the new stealths have the current Fusions, so we can safely say they haven't remodelled the Fusion blaster.

By the same token, I wouldn't put it past an overzealous sculptor to just do it for shits and giggles.

If they are Long-Barrelled, she stands a good chance of making my list (effective range of 30", stealth field protects on average to 21"+). If they are just funky looking normal Fusions, she probably wont.

[NeoHunter]

Here is the latest picture of Commander Shadowsun on the Games Workshop UK site.

Commander Shadowsun (http://uk.games-workshop.com/sneakpeeks/warhammer40000/Image1.jpg)

She has 3 Shield Drones and one special drone. Now that you mentioned it, Apok, never noticed the extra long barrels those Fusion Blasters that she is wielding. Hopefully, it would mean those Fusion Blasters are better than ordinary ones and she will be useful.

[Ap0k]

She only has 2 shield drones. The one with the fin is some other drone. Can't remember it's purpose. The browny coloured one just off the picture is supposedly one of the new marker drones.

[NeoHunter]

Sorry. I meant 2 Shield Drones. Typo error.

You mean there is information or rumor out there on the purpose of that special drone?

[Dvalin]

The special drone is included with Shadowsun; it's some manner of command relay unique to that character, according to Brimstone of Warseer.

[NeoHunter]

Command relay? Hmm...any idea what does a "command relay" do???

[mortifactor]

Actually, I would hope that GW actually sat down at some point and realized that the Tau armory was pretty much the same as the IoM armory. Sure, you got the various pulse weapons... and?

Bear with me here. The plasma gun is simply a tuned down IoM plasma gun. Same range, same AP, one point less strength and it doesn't get hot. Not a technological improvement really. The Fusion gun IS a meltagun. Great. Given the Tau tendency for standoff distance engagements, and the range of almost everything else in the armory why would they have a weapon that is EXACTLY the same as the Imperium? Lazy designers, that's why. Same for the flamer, only moreso. The Seeker missiles are identical to the hunter killer missile with the sole exception of actually being Harder to employ (needing marker light support) and technically miss more often (marker light hits on a 4+, (just like HK's on Guard tanks) then the missile itself hits on a 2+...)

The Missile pod is functionally identical to the autocannon, or close enough.

Which leaves the smart missile laucher, which is reasonably cool, except for being the weakest gun in the arsenal (memory might be bad here, str 4 yeah?) which is only slightly offset by it's ability to shoot targets without LoS. Marginally, due to it's short range (24" right?) and the general maneuverablity of Tau units that can equip it.

So... all in all, the Tau are sort of due to have their armory upgunned a bit. Longer ranged Fusion guns would be a good idea in my book, keeping the Tau mentality of 'stay back' in mind more than the current. I'd (if I was a GW guru) replace the flamer with some sort of ranged, assault, burst template thing. Could be comparitively weak, as the purpose of flamers is to handle hordes, so coverage is more important. In other words: make the Tau weapons Tau weapons, not redesigned IoM weapons. Maybe I'm asking a bit much tho...

[Random Person]

Almost every army has a flamer of somesort.

[NeoHunter]

Dark Eldar doesn't have flamers I think. Necrons too.

Anyway, I, too, think Flamers are pretty useless to the Tau since their main strategy in battle is to eliminate enemy units before they get that close. I can bet you that out of every 10 Tau players, 0 to 1 of them use Flamers.

[MooFreaky]

Dark Eldar doesn't have flamers I think.
Can't remember the name... don't have codex on hand.
The Haemonculus can carry one. d6AP. meaning u can pierce termie armour with a lucky roll...

[NeoHunter]

Can't remember the name... don't have codex on hand.
The Haemonculus can carry one. d6AP. meaning u can pierce termie armour with a lucky roll...
And here I though Terminators were impervious to flamers type weapons.

Anyway, who here is going to be getting Commander Shadowsun miniature when it is released? What colour scheme do you envision painting her in?

[Piccolo]

it will really depend on the rules she comes with and or if the model could be converted to a non-special character hq type of person.

would be painted my standard tau scheme.

Red/Grey

[Ap0k]

Might pick her up. Depends a lot on the rules. It looks like it could be a lot of effort for a conversion job (seems to have little in the way of posability), but then again I might just pick her up for the sake of painting her, since the model doesn't look half bad.

She'd end up the colour of my current stealths most likely.
http://www.xanadu-community.com/sfh/494/Stealths.jpg

[NeoHunter]

@Ap0k, your Stealth Suits look nice. I think Commander Shadowsun would look good in that colour scheme.

@Piccolo: I don't think I have ever seen your Tau miniatures before. Got link?

[Piccolo]

no pictures are publicly posted, and trust me, my painting does not warrent anyone looking at them when they don't have to for gaming purposes.

[NeoHunter]

no pictures are publicly posted, and trust me, my painting does not warrent anyone looking at them when they don't have to for gaming purposes.
Noted.

Will you be rewriting your Tactica once the new Codex: Tau Empire is released? Or are you going to relax and let someone else do the thinking now?

[KOR'O Y'ELDI]

Really, really not very happy about the whole 'wind in the hair' thing on shadowsun. I think I heard somewhere that that drone allows her to fire the fusion guns seperately instead of twin-linked, and maybe at different targets. That's 'heard from a guy who saw it posted in this forum by a guy who apparently heard it from a guy who overheard a guy from GW say it...' tho, so no guarantees.

[Piccolo]

I will of course attempt to get my hands on a codex as fast as possible and get a good re-write of my tactica up quickly. Better to get the update made than make someone else write something that long.

Just got a bit of a rumor passed along to me. It explains why the release list I saw did not include the Tau Stealthsuits plastics.

They are currently listed as part of the Cityfight update that is set for this coming summer as 1 of 2 Tau items to come out then. The Etherals are the other possible. Most of the races have some unit or another getting a release with that book.

[MooFreaky]

Most of the races have some unit or another getting a release with that book.
Awesome! Cannot wait to see what is brought out

[NeoHunter]

Cityfight? What has that got to do with Tau Stealth Suits?

[Ap0k]

Thats when they are released.

[NeoHunter]

Thats when they are released.
Oh...
Still deciding on whether I should get those new Stealth Suits when they are released...

[Piccolo]

City fight will be one of those nice mid-summer releases that can be used to push some sort of campaign. And by putting out a few new goodies for many different armies should do a good job of boosting sales of not just 1 race but most of them.

[AceRimmer]

Looks like the Tau Piranhas are coming out too, according to the 'sneek peeks'...you're in luck Piccolo.

[NeoHunter]

Now the Tau will have something slightly similar to Space Marine Landspeeders.

Hurray! Anybody for a fast attacking Tau army?

[Piccolo]

Hopefully the Piranha will remain a troop slot, cause placed there they are just ruthless. The piranha is nothing like a marine land speeder. It doesn't have the firepower to really be a killer on its own, normally. It does however open up alot of fun tactical options to a game plan.

[NeoHunter]

Fun options eh? Fly in and open up with the Burst Cannons on enemy infantry. Wonder if it can move back in the Assault Phase.

[Dvalin]

Piccolo; per IA3, the Piranha is a fast attack choice. Basically, it provides a possible (if only marginal) anti-tank option in a slot other than heavy support. Zoom across the table first turn, and take that potshot second.

[Ap0k]

With pathfinders becoming more useful in the new codex I don't see me having much use for piranhas. Fragile single shot weapons don't turn me on much at all.

If they'd been troops they'd have certainly made an appearance, but I can't justify spending the points on a unit that is likely to be a one shot wonder.

[Dvalin]

Actually, I think we're underestimating the Piranha. Sure, they're 11/10/10 opentopped, but they're also fast skimmers and look relatively harmless. Even if you lose first turn, the enemy is likely to prioritize Hammerheads over these, dismissing them in favor of the known badass. This gives the Piranha a small reprieve. Factor, also, that when the Piranha does its first 24" movement, it'll likely be on the flank and orienting its 11 to most return fire -- making small arms useless, and so demanding the attention of heavy weapons. Now the enemy must actually make a decision as to where to put his limited anti-tank fire -- on the Hammerheads that he knows will be a pain to kill but are very dangerous, or the Piranhas that might do something dangerous, but is an uncertain threat? At which point, the Piranha moves 12", fires its fusion blaster (maybe with melta) and frags a Dreadnought, or a Whirlwind, or -something- that is worth well more than its points cost. ;)

Anyway -- long story short, I'll probably include one or two to mix things up, and to give the enemy more targets for his anti-tank while ever-so-slightly lightening the load on my Hammerheads.