The New Imperial Guards

[whats_true]

No, this is not a lie. There will be a brand new Imperial Guard Unit out there. From reliable sorces (I hope they were), and other comments by fellow friends, GW plans to releace a new Guards unit sometime in the future.

http://www.games-workshop.es/goblin_negro/index.asp

Look at the "Novedades futuras" models. The IG unit is the one with the "Furry" Hats to the far right.

[Robert Frazer]

Whilst I'm afraid that you've already been beaten to the Vostroyans, who are going to be released this summer with the Battlezones: Cityfight update, by quite a considerable margin (such as this thread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=85816) ), I don't believe that we've yet had an opportunity to see these minatures without any background and artifacts obstructing the view, so thanks for bringing this up all the same!

The "furry hats" are called bearskins, by the way. ;)

[bahmehbah]

Several threads got this earlier, and 2 had pictures of the new guys. They're called Vostroyans I believe. Something like that. Metal models, and, to me, basically valhallans again.

EDIT: Rob has a point about the non-background pics though. Anyone else notice that their guns are oddly made with extended stock to bear a crazy resemblance to the AK47? Oh, and look, they LOOK like Russians. I wonder what these could possibly be based off of.

[Sir Plasma]

Sweeeeeet!
Those are awesome. I especially like the lascannon and gas masks. Some of the best models produced by GW in a long time.

[Invictus]

Hopefully GW will release them in plastic format like the Cadians. If they do, they can rest assured they'll make a KILLING off me! :p

Though I'm not happy with that Flamer model, the old Flamer?! The new one looks so much better! And the 'long' bullpup Lasguns look fantastic. Hopefully they'll release some Vostroyan versions of Sentinels, Chimeras and Leman Russes, or maybe include a 'primitive goodies' sprue.

[Dante]

I do like those gas-masks. Although I'm not a fan of the..."wood" on the lasguns...

w00t for casualties!

[Tarot]

Boo-fricken-ya! Beat ya again! I win! I win!

Ahem...

Hopefully GW will release them in plastic format like the Cadians. If they do, they can rest assured they'll make a KILLING off me!
Nope, they're another metal range.

[Invictus]

We shall see, unless you can point me to a webpage where GW say the Vostroyans will be metal-exclusive?

And I assume the 'wood' is just the way they've painted and textured the Lasguns, I suppose you'll be able to paint them solid like the current Cadian Lasguns.

[Aces_High]

I don't like the hats :hmm:.

The lasguns are very cool though. Overall a very good looking theme.

[whats_true]

:lol:

I searched for a thread with someting along the lins of "NeW IG!!11" . Thanks for the heads up Robert.

I perfer, Furry hats by the way.

[SlickWilly]

Im pretty sure there metal...I mean, look at them. Several models in the squad fetured look exactly the same. Gotta be metal.

[Invictus]

I don't understand why metal figures are still made? I don't see their appeal. Plastic is so much easier IMO. You can pose models, convert them easier and they're cheaper.

Still, they made both Cadians and Catachans in plastic, and both of those have a full range of models. So there's still hope, just not much of it.

[Tarot]

they're cheaper.
Not for GW, they aren't. Plastic molds are much more expensive to make.

[Invictus]

Aren't they porting over to 3D cutting lasers to reduce mold costs? And I meant cheaper to buy vs metal models.

[whats_true]

Metal has more detail, but lets leave the "Metal vs. Plastic" discussion out of it please. There are many threas on that already.

[General Nuke Em]

Are they supposed to be some grotesque reincarnation of valhallans?

[Dante]

Psygunner, don't make stuff up.

One of the sargeant models is the old Stormtrooper Vet Sargeant with a plasma pistol with new stuff modeled onto it!

[Aquila]

Wow... I admit, I didn't like the look of the vostroyans when I first saw them. But these guys with the gas masks... they're freakin cool!

They look just like the guys straight from out of Iron Storm. If you've never played it, check it out... it seems heavily influenced by the 40k universe.

[The Preacher]

I love the Vostroyans. If I were to ever start the guard, these guys would be at the top of my list.

[Tarot]

I'm not sold on a full army of them, but they'd look great as inquisitorial storm troopers and henchmen in a witchhunters army.

[Corbie]

When I first saw them... I really REALLY didnt like them.. I mean seriously.. porn mustaches? big fuzzy hats? What, did they get magically transported in time from the 1800's? Course.. i hate the rough riders too... horses? seriously? i mean cmon.. remember Poland and WW2? Your telling me that people will have more success against terminators, tyranids, and tau than the polish did against tanks? its just silly...

anyway im rambling. What I was going to say is that when I first saw the models I hated them..but the more I look at them the more they grow on me. There really is some great detail in the models. If I ever made an IG army id consider going with these guys.... no rough riders though :)

[NeoHunter]

The new models are nice! Definitely Russian themed. Now we have another group of Imperial Guards who carry flashlights into battle...haahaa~!

[Baneboss]

I really like the models but i wouldnt trade them for my Steel Legion despite their sculpture precision is so much much better.

...and on a side note: Poland invested in economics after 123 years of "slavery". Polish goverment wasnt even 20 years old. Anyway german tanks back in 1939 werent so good either. Its later in those 5 years of war when new technologies were developed.

[NeoHunter]

One thing I am curious to know about this new Imperial Guard group whether they will have variants of the common Imperial Guard vehicles like the Chimera and the Basilisks and how these variants will look like or are players going to have to use the standard ones currently in the market.

[Brother Wolf]

I personally prefer the Valhallan models overall. Used to be only the Valhallan officers got to have the Bearskin Top Hat. Anyway, I will say that while I'm not a huge fan of the line overall, that I am impressed with certain little details. The plasmagunner is a fantastic model. The gasmask options are also very cool looking. I can't see jumping on the Vostroyan bandwagon right away, but I can definately see a few of them making it into my collection. Casualties should make for some interesting options for my new Xenos forces starting up this year.

On a side note, what's with the straight-outta-the-early-90's ghetto flamer? Didn't we ditch that flamer style ages back?
Voy flamer (http://www.games-workshop.es/goblin_negro/images/new_056g.jpg)
Old School Flamers (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/newimage.asp?Size=C&Img=6188) (alt (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/newimage.asp?Size=D&Img=6246))

[Sir Plasma]

i personally like teh retro flamers.

[Aquila]

Corbie, learn some history... outnumbered and outgunned, the Polish Cavalry were able to hold off the combined weight of the German Panzer divisions for WEEKS. On HORSEBACK. In contrast, they rolled straight through France and all of Western Europe in a few days.

Armand, it looks like alot of the Vostroyan guys are stuck with 'retro' or 'classic' weapons. They must have a long and proud history, to still be fighting with relics like those. Either that or they just pulled the short end of the stick when the Departmento Munitorum showed up.

[Corbie]

learn some history? Ill learn polish history when you start thinking logically.

Ok..so the Polish held off a 1940s tank army for months with horses? And this makes horses a viable mode of transportation in battle 40k years in the future when we have mechanized infantry, genetically enhanced soldiers, pocket rocket launchers, and tanks 10000x better than the 1940s version?

It was hardly effective almost 70 years ago... would you pit polish horsemen against the American artillary today? Now you are telling me that you would send them against armies infinately more advanced?

We are talking about humanities entire military in the Imperial Guard.. and they cant afford to provide a few motorcycles for their rough riders? They can build starships and Star Wars style walkers.. but cant upgrade from cavalry that is woefully obsolete even today in 2006? At least pump some genetic enhancements in the suckers and throw some armor on them... i mean cmon.

its silly.. plain and simple.

[Baneboss]

There was no Poland in 1940... and we are not talking about months but a month (barely).

Horses are GWs licencia poetica. They want to include "ways of war" into one system thats all. There are so many different worlds in 40k. Some primitives, others might lack some important minerals. If you can imagine it then it exists somewhere. In old Rogue Trader books i have read colonists use horses quite often. They cant depend on technology because its quite rare since dark age of technology passed.

As i said i like those Vostroyans. They combine neogothic and technology quite well. From all IG regiments that have miniatures i have to say they fit the 40k atmosphere the best.

[Gromash]

On HORSEBACK. i'm no expert, but it sticks in my mind that by 1939 the bulk of the Polish army was mounted infantry: they used horses to get from one battle to the next, they didnt fight from horseback (there is some footage of polish cavalry charging tanks, but it sticks in my mind it was a german propaganda made using actors)

[whats_true]

Seems they killed or updated the page. Can someone read that and try to find it again?

[Invictus]

Err... back on topic?

[Brother Wolf]

they just pulled the short end of the stick when the Departmento Munitorum showed up.:lol:

but cant upgrade from cavalry that is woefully obsolete even today in 2006? Have you ever been around a horse? I mean a real 18-hand beast? That sucker will move you out of it's way right quick. Pack a couple dozen together with men firing weapons at you and you will get the hell out of the way.

So, migrate to 40K. Don't think logically as it won't work, this is 40K after all. Cavalry is a common denominator for any and all modes of mounted trasportation be it a giant lizard, a cyber-horse, a mini-trike or just a plain, old, conventionaly pony. A horse, in much the same manner as a Sentinel walker, can go places a tank, (wheeled or tracked), cannot. Deep snow, rocky desert wasteland, swamp marsh, you name it. Lets not forget that the horse, much like the imperial guard soldier, is an infinitely renewable resource. So long as there is breeding stock, you can make more with the only resources necessary being water and grain. A far cry from the mining, metalwork & engineering necessary to produce a tank, (which of course must be housed in a factory, requiring architects and civil construction).

A horse is still a very valuable tool, much the same way that a plain-jane/john human is. Even in the far future amid geneticly engineer soldiers, bio-engineers xenos and all manner of daemonic threat. Now you've gone an aggravated me...

Some parting notes;
"Polish Lancers mounted on horse, charged against German tanks just west of Grudziadz at the beginning of World War II in 1939. Even as late as April 1941, the U.S. Army was training its mounted cavalry in the desserts of West Texas, preparing against a possible invasion through the rough terrain of Mexico."
"Surprisingly enough, Patton advocated a return to the use of the Cavalry as a kind of SHOCK force, much like the role of medieval knights. Perhaps Patton saw it as the last hope of sword and horse against the changing face of modern warfare."
http://www.classicalfencing.com/mountedintro.shtml

[Aquila]

Corbie, what's silly is that you think you can make an informed analysis when you have absolutely no knowledge of real life history. Think about things with an open mind and do some research before you simply write things off as impossible. Cavalry was used very effectively in many situations in World War I until the widespread use of chemical and biological weapons made it infeasible.

Nobody's advocating that you should charge armoured vehicles with swordsmen on horseback. That's the worst straw-man argument I've ever seen. But to make such a sweeping that horses will never have a use on the battlefield because of guns is simply illogical. You can't equate guns with horses - it's not like they're mutually exlusive. I agree that Jump Packs are better in almost every way. Unfortunetly, most guardsmen cannot use a jump pack without breaking all of the major bones in his body.

Oh, and to answer your other question, most of the mounts used by Guard Rough Riders ARE genetically enhanced.

And yeah, this is off-topic, but there's really only so many times we can say "cool, I like new IG!" before we run out of on-topic stuff to say :D

[Corbie]

there are reasons why we havent seen horses used since the 1940s. Yes i have been around horses..I own horses... and you can line up 500 guys on horses with guns.. and put 2 guys with big automatic weapons behind good cover.. and all those horsemen will be walking before they get CLOSE to the guys behind cover.

Throw a tank or some artillary into the picture and the only difference between a man on foot and a man on horse is about 10mph and the amount of body parts left strewn around the battlefield.

Fact of the matter is that riding a horse into heavy fire is not a viable military tactic.. heck.. even back when Horses WERE considered a good form of "shock troop".. such as in the revolutionary war in America... they didnt charge at the front of the enemies.. they waited for them to fire a round and hit them from the side while they are reloading.. and they sure didnt charge anything fortified..that is suicide.

What is a tank? its a moving fortified position.. try moving a tank with a charging horse :P..

I understand that ARGUMENT that horses are useful for moving troops quickly.. but I dont buy it from a tactically sound battle strategy..or from a logistical point of view. Honestly.. having them riding vehicles which used the same fuel as the other vehicles in the army would lead to a much faster and more efficient force. After all.. cars/bikes dont need to stop and rest.. and they dont go lame... or if they do its easily fixed and doesnt involve destroying the vehicle.

bottom line... it just isnt very likely.

[Aces_High]

Fact of the matter is that riding a horse into heavy fire is not a viable military tactic.. heck.. even back when Horses WERE considered a good form of "shock troop".. such as in the revolutionary war in America... they didnt charge at the front of the enemies.. they waited for them to fire a round and hit them from the side while they are reloading.. and they sure didnt charge anything fortified..that is suicide.

They were not used as shock troops. Stop assuming they were. They were more like Dragoons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoons). Getting around on horseback and fighting on foot. The Russians and Poles used horses a lot, since the inhospitable weather, lack of resources and trained manpower made it impossible to use vehicles. In the ETO the Red Army and partisan guerillas used horses to conduct sabotage, recon, and hit and run tatics extensively.

Of course it is a stupid idea to charge a machinegun nest with horses. It's stupid to do it on foot. And it is stupid to barrel a tank up the sights of an 88mm gun. Just because once uses horses doesn't mean you have to gloriously charge the line. No one fights like that anymore.

bottom line... it just isnt very likely.
Only if you don't know your history.

[Corbie]

I still think its silly :) hehe

[Brother Wolf]

riding a horse into heavy fire is not a viable military tacticChargin directly into ANY form of fire isn't a viable military tactic. Main Battle Tanksbeing the only units likely to survive such a tactic and then only if there are enough of them and the enemy is ill prepared with adequate AT weapons.

Cavalry was rarely if ever employed as a front line, down the enemy gullet weapon. Cavalry has, by & large, always been a flanking unit, using their superior speed and mobility to get around to the side or rear and provide a supporting charge to the infantry massed in FRONT of the enemy.

Anyone who charges their rough riders out in front of the enemy guns and races towards them at breakneck speed is acting like a fool. I know of no IG player who do so, preferring to hide their RR behind/in terrain to lie in wait as a counter charge unit, protecting a valuable asset.

In any war, half of the strategy is employing the correct weapon for the correct task to achieve the objective as quickly and efficiently as possible. Sending a handful of cavalry against a well defended, dug in position with a high rate of defensive firepower is not a correct tactic for the situation. However, sending them around said enemy to attack from the rear, (which would likely not provide cover nor provide an avenue of fire for the entrenched guns), while allied long range guns keep the enemy's head down CAN be a correct one.

It wasn't too long ago that a bunch of Afghans held off the soviet military in their own rocky and forbidding homeland on horseback. Soviet Tanks 0, Afghan Mounted Skirmishers 1.

[Touristo]

Hell, it was only a couple years ago that we had US special forces operating on horseback with the locals in that same terrain, using horses to move quickly to where the action was and then call in air strikes on enemy forces. Definitely NOT standup fighting, but nonetheless a very valid application of horses to a modern military situation.

So long as there are times and places that do not permit the logistical infrastructure needed for motorized transportation but require faster movement than what one can achieve on foot, horses will have a useful place in military operations. And so long as there are enemy flank positions that can be successfully hit and damaged by well-armed, fast-moving forces, there will be a place for cavalry-type units.

[commisar antoni]

about usng rrs like that, i put mine behind a wall of infantry and wait till the enemy is close enough then charge from behind my meat sheild :num: :num: :sprint: :chicken:

[Tarot]

Then obviously you haven't been reading the rules any time recently. Screening died with 4e, and you've never been able to screen RRs behind infantry. Too tall.