Close Assault Terminators

[bushmins]

I had been talking to one of the GW people last night about making a 5 man Term squand with 2 rail guns.

I went back in the shop today and he give me a set of weapons for close combat Terminators... for free :)

This was so i could get a gun Term squad and keep the guns for when i eventually get another set.


But... he only gave me enough to do the following.
1 Term - 2 x lighting claw

4 Terms with Hammer and shield

I know id rather have 3 with dual claws and 2 with hammer and shield, but im not complaining.
Is it legal to have that many hammers? Could i have the whole 5 Terms with lightining claws?

[treeboy]

no you may mix and match the choise of weapons as you please

[bushmins]

Would that be the same if i wanted to have a devistator squad with say... 4 Lascannon?

Where does this info come from? Its not in my Marine codex.

[nareik123]

well, look PROPERLY. It says in the codex:

Origianlly posted from codex:space marines
Up to 4 men maybe equipped with the following.....

I had been talking to one of the GW people last night about making a 5 man Term squand with 2 rail guns

rail guns? sorry, am i hearing this right? shouldn't be ASSAULT CANNONS or HEAVY FLAMERS?

[bushmins]

Yah, your right. Not rail guns, assault cannons.

Ill go back and have another look in my codex.

[Tarot]

It's perfectly legal what you want to do, except they can't use the special weapons in the squad. Otherwise, mix and match as you please.

Treeboy: punctuation is your friend.

[Popsumpot]

Nariek is improving his 40k skills...

[TauMan]

no you cannot put an assault cannon in an assault termie squad. Assault termies are for ASSAULT. If you want assault cannons and other cool stuff you have to use the normal terminators. As for Desvistators if you wanted to mix weapons there then yes up to four members in that squad can take heavy weapons.

[Popsumpot]

I like the 2 claws with 3 hammers to give them all 4+ invulnerable save.

[Imrix]

Which only applies in close combat.

[TauMan]

I like it the exat invers of pops, i usually go 3 sets of claws and 2 hammers.

[deathikins]

no you cannot put an assault cannon in an assault termie squad. Assault termies are for ASSAULT. If you want assault cannons and other cool stuff you have to use the normal terminators. As for Desvistators if you wanted to mix weapons there then yes up to four members in that squad can take heavy weapons.

I miss when my Deathwing could do this.

[treeboy]

Punctuation was my friend...until he stole my girlfriend....

edit - just to make this post have some relivance to it - on the assult terminater option it says any combination of the two. i wonder if that means you can mix weapons, so you can have a lightning claw and a thunder hammer (not that there would be any use for that combination).

[guitarhead1000]

yeah exactly been reading my dex i think it just means in the squad there can be any combination of the 2 types or termies ones with hammers and sheilds and ones with claws hey what about termies with claw and shield

[treeboy]

theres still no use for it, with lightning claws more attacks are better.

[bushmins]

What do the shields do? Give the +4 inv save?

Id like the idea of having a hammer and claw.

[guitarhead1000]

true just wondering if it was possible cause i think im right what the codex means bout only squads can have any mix of the weapons

[treeboy]

They give that save but only in close combat. Which is why I’d prefer to give them lightning claws and then furious assault, so they (hopefully) should rip apart the unit they attack in the first round.

[guitarhead1000]

actually thats a good idea gonna do that to my assult termies thx treeboy

[bushmins]

EDIT : Removed, just incase.

[HiveMind]

There is a point to hammer and claw: Use the claw as your secondary weapon. This way, you have 3 thunder hammer attacks. The question is, however, can you do it?

[treeboy]

@ bushmins - yes it does do that, and no your probably not allowed to post it.

With assault terminators you would want them to kill stuff quickly so they can move onto the next target, you can’t really do that using thunder hammers, as you must always strike last with them and that then runs the risk of you loosing some of your team before they can get their attacks. It’s just my personal preference and you still can have an effective assault terminator squad with thunder hammers but I’d rather use lightning claws and slice through the unit as fast as possible.

And looking at the codex now the actual wording is:

"Any combination of these two types may be included in the squad" so no, you can’t have a thunder hammer and lighting claw combo (wow, I just answered my own question...).

[guitarhead1000]

actually treeboy i answered that for u 3 posts ago

[commisar antoni]

it would have no reason to do a mix as all youd be doing is taking away your 4+ inv.

[Popsumpot]

With assault terminators you would want them to kill stuff quickly so they can move onto the next target, you can’t really do that using thunder hammers, as you must always strike last with them and that then runs the risk of you loosing some of your team before they can get their attacks. It’s just my personal preference and you still can have an effective assault terminator squad with thunder hammers but I’d rather use lightning claws and slice through the unit as fast as possible.

You got it all wrong tree boy, the whole point of Assualt Terminators is to make the combat last two turns. If you end combat on the turn you charge, you consolidate D6", scoring lets say a 3, you than have to stand a whole turn of enemy fire before you can go charge some one else. But, if you win combat on the second turn, you got 3 inches, than move 6 inches, than assault 6 inches, moving a total sum of 15 inches. You will have moved 12 inches more, and the enemy couldn't shoot at you.



it would have no reason to do a mix as all youd be doing is taking away your 4+ inv.

Actually, according to the mix armour save rule, you can still get a 4+ invulnerable save if you have 3 hammers and 2 claws, which is why i prefer that configuration.

[toaae]

or, you could take only one Thunder Hammer on your sarge and, for only 10 points more, take a Power Weapon for the extra attack.

[Popsumpot]

Are you prepared to pay 10 points for 1 attack? no.

It still don't give you an 4+ save.

[toaae]

But, for some reason, everyone is prepared to spend 15 points for 1 attack...hmmm...

How often do you see a SM HQ without Termie honors?

And, to get the 4+ save, you have to have at least 3 out of 5. Assault termies are nice because they can take LCs, which makes them great squad killers. The 1 thunder hammer is to deal with dreads or something big. and for only 10 points, you get 3 thunder hammer attacks, 4 on the charge.

My friend uses a squad of 5 with only 1 thunder hammer (the sarge, along with a power weapon) in his Deathwing army. He puts them in a drop pod, and uses them as a distraction. Who you going to shoot. The termies slowly marching across the bourd, tearing you up with assault cannon fire, or the 4 LC and 1 TH/PW assault termie squad that just landed right in your battle lines?

[bushmins]

Im just trying to keep ontop of this thread. Get a few more questions.

Toaae : You said "And, to get the 4+ save, you have to have at least 3 out of 5"
Does this mean 3 out of 5 Terms need the shields for all 5 terms to get the +4?
What if only 2 have shields?

Also if a Sargent has a hammer/PW in one hand can he have a gun in the other?

[toaae]

1. What I meant was that you need a majority save in order to use the better save. So, you need 3 out of 5. That way, you can roll for the storm shield. Other wise, you would have to use the termies natural 5+ inv. save.(which isn't all that worse, seeing as how it is an inv. save)

2. He doesn't have a PW/TH in one hand, he has a TH in one hand and a PW in another. therefore, no gun.

[nareik123]

if a sergeant has EITHER the p/w OR thunder hammer, then he can have a gun.
I reckon its quite pointless to have a gun, unless your willing to surrender your +1 attack bonus for 2 CC or have a gun that blows up in your face. (plasma pistol)

Im not sure if they can have a plasma pistol, but i think they can.

[[WA]GM_Seth]

no they can't its a storm bolter, an thats for normal terms, anyhow as a question so the sarg is better with say 1 TH an 1 PC? and what about the storm shield? sorry to bring this up again, but just wondering.

[toaae]

The sarge with a TH and a PW is probally better. He gets 3 attacks, and the squad only cost 210 pts. (before dropod/furiouscharge/more termies)

[bushmins]

So a sarg can have a TH and a PW? But the PW cannot be a lightining claw?

[Popsumpot]

How often do you see a SM HQ without Termie honors?

I never have an SM HQ with honors.

But, if you do, there is a difference. Your extra attack is at Initiative 5 and Ws 5.

[nareik123]

you can have two weapons, one maybe two handed. so in thoery, yes, you can have a TH and a LC.

[Popsumpot]

But why would you want to do that? it's like a 80pt model now.

[toaae]

No, not really. He gets LCs for free. You could always replace one with the free TH.

Though why you would is beyond me. The effects don't combine, and you don't get an extra attack for either one.

I never have an SM HQ with honors.

But, if you do, there is a difference. Your extra attack is at Initiative 5 and Ws 5.

You don't? Odd, you might be the first person that I've ever heard of not use termie honors.

And it isn't all that different. For 15 points you get and extra attack at I5 and WS5. For 10, you get and extra attack allowing you to run a more anti-infantry squad with just that one guy for anti-tank pruposes. That way, if your opponent has no dreads or big meanies, you havn't wasted effectivness on 2 models.

[Popsumpot]

Master
Power Sword
Bolt Pistol

Only 91pts, cheap as hell, and more cost effective than any.

You get an extra attack with the TH.

[nareik123]

not trying to be an annoying person. (probably i am an annoying person now) but it says that sergeants may purchase stuff from the armoury. Does this mean that sergeants don't come with anything and you have to purchase stuff from the armoury.
The chaplains entry says on the lines of: he comes with a crozuis arcanum. It also mentions that he may take stuff from the armoury. If this is true, then termy sergeants will have to BUY their lightning claws or thunder hammes with storm shields.

[TauMan]

Does this mean that sergeants don't come with anything and you have to purchase stuff from the armoury.they start like rest of the squad (bolters) to begin with. The actual swapping of weapons and adding of wargear, then takes place with the values added to the overall price of the sgt.

Example
Squad A
Sgt w/ Termi honours, plasma pistol and power weapon (50 pts)
Marine with melta (25 pts)
8 marines (15 pts a piece)
total 195 pts

Same goes for the chaplain, only he HAS to have the crozius Arcanum and the Rosarius, but after that you can add weapons like before

Example
Master of Sanctity W/ Crozius Arcanium, Rosarius, Plasma pistol, Termi honours, Jump Pack (150 points)

So there it is, hope that helps nareik.

[ExplodingGeckos]

Incorrect. A chaplain isn't required to have the crozius, its simply included in his points cost. A very viable tactic is, as you’re alluding to Tauman, is a chaplain outfitted with a jump pack, 2x lighting claws, accompanied by a retinue of assault troops. This allows the Chaplain to reroll hits and wounds.

[deathikins]

Incorrect. A chaplain isn't required to have the crozius, its simply included in his points cost. A very viable tactic is, as you’re alluding to Tauman, is a chaplain outfitted with a jump pack, 2x lighting claws, accompanied by a retinue of assault troops. This allows the Chaplain to reroll hits and wounds.

How's this for nasty: 1 termie chappy, two close combat weapons (non-LC). 7 Assault termies, all with LC. Land Raider Crusader. So now after running up in an AV 14 tank and hosing some of the enemy with a TLAC and some hurricane bolters I now assault with my entire squad (grand total of 19 attacks rerollable misses) and reroll 14 of those wounds.

I think I'm gonna enjoy this here Deathwing army now. harharhar.

[toaae]

No.

Why give a chappy 2 CCW when he gets a FREE power weapon?

plus, you can't give CCWs to termies.

[Sajuukar]

Wow, the Chaplin with all those lightning clawed terminators and furious assault would be positively devestating on anything less than a vehicle! It looks like it's got a good probability of taking out even a fully decked out Carnifex! The only thing I'd be worried about is the cost of such a dream team...

[Knight_of_Old]

You got it all wrong tree boy, the whole point of Assualt Terminators is to make the combat last two turns. If you end combat on the turn you charge, you consolidate D6", scoring lets say a 3, you than have to stand a whole turn of enemy fire before you can go charge some one else. But, if you win combat on the second turn, you got 3 inches, than move 6 inches, than assault 6 inches, moving a total sum of 15 inches. You will have moved 12 inches more, and the enemy couldn't shoot at you.
Could you explain this pops? Just wandering how to do this.

How's this for nasty: 1 termie chappy, two close combat weapons (non-LC). 7 Assault termies, all with LC. Land Raider Crusader.
I use the same Chaplain and assualt terms with furious charge and let me tell you, if you can get them across the field without the Crusader popping(it is a huge fire magnet) and then get them into close combat they are completely devastating! Ive hopped from multiple enemy marine squad to another and another taking out several and losing only a couple of models.

[Aquila]

The amount of completely nonsensical information presented in this thread as fact is staggering. Before posting any more opinions, may I so humbly suggest that you PLEASE read carefully through the appropriate entries in your codex? It would save all of us alot of trouble.