Orange order march in Dublin

[Brian]

Well the lads in orange are coming for a nice pleasant walk in Dublin and to show there colours in a very civilised way.

Or more likely imo there coming to shit stir since what's the bet all over English TV there will be pictures of Irish peeps burning union jacks and throwing stuff at the poor guys.Ive heard of quite a few people who plan to go to town tomorrow and they aren't going to just watch, of course whether they have the balls im not sure since the garda[police] as some jokingly say are taking off there badge numbers tonight and getting there batons ready just in case.

Hopefully it will go relatively peaceful and people wont plays into there hands and give them a reason to complain about how they can live with us irish and all that stuff.

But on the other hand this is the south of ireland and walking through dublin with union jacks and all is inviting trouble on anyday but with a march I feel allot of troublemakers will be attracted.

Anyhow should be interesting.

So what is you're opinion? hopefully this thread wont be booming with pictures anytime soon of violence but meh the possibilty is there. :buddies:

[Beelzebuddy]

Irish insular politics/terrorism is old news. The Middle East is where it's at nowadays. I don't suppose anyone could discreetly tell them?

[EchoEffect]

From past experience I would think that the coverage on "English TV" will be "look at these marchers, aren't they rediculous", rather than making them into victims.

[Brian]

Btw when I say english tv I probably should say british tv..yeah.

[hiddensmoke]

Who are these orange boys? Ive honestly never heard of them (and quite possibly i dont want to hear of them but youve sparked my interest).

[Brian]

Simplest way of putting it would be pro british rule usually protestant supporters from the north of Ireland.

Im sure that sentence does not do them them justice since like all things in Ireland theres a history there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1422212.stm

More info there.

Suffice to say in modern history Irish peeps and them go long back and arent too fond of each orther.

[Seithon]

Black.. I think at this point only the most thick headed idiots don't realise the orange order and its supporters are a bunch of loonies.
No one wants them, No one wants their Crap.

That said, I'm English living in Ireland and I’m fairly sick of the way I’ve been treated simply because of my accent, never mind that I’ve been here 20 years.

So I think both sides of the group have some serious problems, supremacists on one side "Dirty Irish Catholics!!" and insular narrow minded catholic communities "Look at those darkies I bet their just here to sponge" etc etc.

This country won’t be fixed till the people that make it up get fixed, and i mean that in the veterinarial term regarding some members of it.

[Brian]

Well today is the day and the shit is starting to hit the fan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4750576.stm

Id suspect this will grow before it goes away as more are attracted to it.

heh seems like the garda is whats between an angry crowd and a bunch of orange men stuck on a street.

[Thaum]

Yeah I have been listening to this on the radio. It would appear that a whole load of yobs hijacked the thing and start running amuck.....

Cant really say I am surprised, but kinda pissed that such a small minority of people should start kicking up this shit.

And now the unionists have another excuse to hold up the peace process. I am really getting to the stage where I wish we could just chop off the 6 counties (that is Ireland which is politically a part of the UK) and throw them somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic. Followed closely by a large yield nuke. Only joking.

I know that originally (about 30 years ago) there was a lot to be pissed off about being a nationalist (or Catholic) up in Northern Ireland. You had no job, were discriminated against, pissed on shat on and generally treated like a leper.

But these days things are pretty good up there and what you have now is a whole load of disaffected youths and various other groups just joining extreme republican or loyalist groups just to stir things up.

And seeing as the Unionists up the North now see their pre-eminent position being eroded away, they are only going to become more entrenched, embittered and disillusioned with the whole peace process.

Although it could be argued that the Orange men knew what they were doing. In truth they have no real right marching in Dublin. They consider themselves British first and foremost and while their intention for the march was to remember victims of the IRA, I personally see the motives as rather more sinister. It would probably have become a drum beating political protest, designed to provoke nationalist loyalties.

And I would say they are well pleased with the negative response that they got down here today. It will further flame the already tense situation up North, and further demonstrate the differences between the two communities. It just goes to show the political naivety of my country’s leadership. Still the right intention was there.

And while I will say I am a nationalist at heart and obviously want the 6 counties back. The fact of the matter is that there are people up there who will never, ever agree with me, and unfortunately that is the way it is in many other places in the world.

[MajorFreak]

well, i finally find out what the orange order stands for. I always thought it strange that there was only ONE type of marching band in ireland. For something so contentious you'd think there'd have to be a rival "green order" ...i personally found the entire thing ridiculous. "victims of the IRA"? oh for gods, sakes, these yobs probably spend more time crying over their beer about their ex wives/gfs/whatever than they do about social injustices.

bunch of stuck of prats the lot of them. The bloody-minded brits and irish both. Good thing the religion isn't involving muslims. For that matter, why the HELL is it involving relgiion. period? Meh. It's just too damn bad politics is a muddy business - that's life.

"those intelligent enough not to run for office or ruled by those who aren't" ~famous quote (anyone know author?)

[Brian]

The religion bit goes way back, generally probably back to the penal laws where Catholics were discriminated against in an attempt to convert them to Presbyterian or protestant. And has kind of continued from there.

Republicans/nationlists= caitholic usualy

unionsts/pro brits= protestant/Presbyterian

Northern ireland and ireland anglo relations is a bit complicated.

Oh and there not really bloody mad, just anorther example of two people who have as far as both sides can probably remember hated each orther and live on the same small island.

[Lestaki]

Speaking as a bloody-minded Brit, I really don't give a damn, and that goes for a lot of British, as far as I know. All I want from this is for something vaugly resembling peace, whichever side "wins". But religion IS the issue, among other things. Religion tends to get everywhere.

As for bad politics, I am no expert in any way, shape or form, but I don't think there's such a thing as "good politics" in this situation. Just two groups who seem to be against everything each other stands for, and some more moderate people in the middle. But what do you do about the two groups?

[MajorFreak]

Speaking as a bloody-minded Brit, I really don't give a damn, and that goes for a lot of British, as far as I know. All I want from this is for something vaugly resembling peace, whichever side "wins". But religion IS the issue, among other things. Religion tends to get everywhere.

As for bad politics, I am no expert in any way, shape or form, but I don't think there's such a thing as "good politics" in this situation. Just two groups who seem to be against everything each other stands for, and some more moderate people in the middle. But what do you do about the two groups?
well, if you read my post, you'd see the subtle hint that the thing to do is recognize politics will ALWAYS be imperfect. omfg. why can't the irish (both sides) realize their government isn't any f'ing better than the british parliament. I think a little self-depracating humor would go along way, instead of running about with fisty-cuffs. OMFG anyone remember that brawl those irish had a while back?

meh. stupid prejudices. See, thing for me is that it's so silly. The whole situation is tailor made for a two party system. The lesser being the 'honorable opposotion' Good god, it's politics. What do they expect? mother goddamned teresa reincarnated to serve as speaker of the house?



PS. when i said bloodyminded, i meant the 'al queda' wannabe serial killers on both sides (including the morons in government, the morons in the military and police)heck, anyone advocating violence as a means to solve anything.Sorry, let me reiterate my main point from last post. i feel like i'm digressing here, so i'll set it straight: Those yobs marching probably spent more time crying in their beer about their exs than they do about the victims on either side. It's not about religion, or politics or whatever. It's a bunch of yobs acting like yobs cause they don't realize the only place they have in history is to help the yobs higher up in the food chain stir shit. It's a whole hierachy of yobbism, but it's the man crying in his beer that needs to change before anyone else does.

[Lestaki]

What can I say? Too many people don't see it as silly, but as something in deadly earnest. It certainly wasn't silly at one stage. Now, I'm not so sure, mind...

Edit: But I'm not really sure where the Brits come into the equation of "bloody minded". As far as I know, we have two types of Irish and Britain in the middle, but that is almost certainly hopelessly nieve of me... :|

[MajorFreak]

but you can agree with me it's the yob crying in his beer that's the root of the problem?

[Brian]

Two types of irish?

Call a unionist irish and he will take offense.Unionsts usually believe that the north is just another part of england albeit separated by water.

Northern Ireland and Ireland to an extent is more like what happens when a foreign country comes, oppresses the natives and brings over new settlers to live on the land and these settlers over time start to call said country home and the natives don't agree.

edit: oh and I don't think there is many al queda wannabies in ireland, both sides have been killing each other since the first english peep came.

[Lestaki]

I did say I knew nothing of this, Gobbo. So, phew, I've learned something. I just draw the line at apparently being called bloody-minded. ;) Now that that's sorted, I should probably clear out without airing my ignorance futher.

Yob and beer are definately aggravating the problem, that's for sure. I think the roots are just history, though- all those years of religious and cultural differences in the same space.

[MajorFreak]

Gobbo: wait...call a unionist irish and he'll take offense? Okay, color me pink and call me slappy, but doesn't Ireland have it's own passport, laws, customs, accents, beer, etc? You mean a few blowhards who can't see out of their beer glasses think they're still in England? good for them.

And you were trying to counter the "wannabe" sentiment i posted earlier as a snide comment? roflmao

[Brian]

well technically they are in the north...different laws, currency tradition and all in the north with laws mostly like englands to my knowledge though it has a few changes.

Saying that south ireland has laws like englands two so meh there. :blah:

And no I was just pointing out that al queda hasn't been around as long as the ira/irb and uvf as far as I know or there linked groups and not many anywhere would support there ideals.

of course as ever troublemakers are there just for the hell of it, heh the riots in Dublin have been confirmed nearly as scumbags who left the pub hearing a scrap was about to happen with the protestants/garda.

[Scribble]

Call a unionist irish and he will take offense.Unionsts usually believe that the north is just another part of england albeit separated by water.

Northern Ireland and Ireland to an extent is more like what happens when a foreign country comes, oppresses the natives and brings over new settlers to live on the land and these settlers over time start to call said country home and the natives don't agree.

edit: oh and I don't think there is many al queda wannabies in ireland, both sides have been killing each other since the first english peep came.

..Couple of gripes.

There has never been a united Ireland except under British rule.

'Ireland' (or rather the various irish nations) have repeatedly invaded Britain (All three nations but particularly Scotland) and left a great many settlers behind, indeed scotland's language, religion and accent are all reminants of Irish 'invasions'.

[Brian]

Tbh scribble I wouldn't know allot about that era, isn't really thought in school except irish clans raided britain back in the good old days.

I know the scots were of Celtic decent as well and had ties with irish clans but you sure there result of irish invasions? I would've thought settlers reached scotland before settlers reached ireland and the celts the same way.

And true there was never a united ireland as it was ruled in different parts by chieftains with ties to each other but "united" under brit rule was hardly that great and only in latter stages was Ireland even united as in the earlier times only certain parts of Ireland were actually ruled by britain though all of Ireland was technically british.

Of course if you've done studies into irish history you probably know more of it then me as I aint too fond of it myself.