Why do MMORPG companies avoid Asia?

[Question]

This has been fairly obvious for quite a number of years.Think back.Which MMORPG that was released in NA(and then, subsequently europe, though for some it takes a while) in a boxed form with a country specific server, was then released in Asia, in english, with an asian server?

I cant remember any off hand actually.Im not even sure if there WERE any.

Games that would qualify for this would include EQ1 and 2 and The Matrix Online.

Sure there is the occasional asian version.However it is usually(if not always) in chinese.Seems fairly obvious why.....China is known as a gaming hotspot with a large population and i imagine server costs and such are cheaper there as well.It seems like a good business decision.

So then, why is a english version in asia never(or almost never) done?

The most obvious one that comes to mind : The companies consider it impratical to have one, citing the lack of english speakers in asia, as opposed to those in america or europe.

This totally makes no sense, considering english is a fairly universal language, and many countries in asia have large portions of the populace speaking decent english(notable exceptions being japan and korea).The other alternative, to make a version for each large country's language(Thai, vietnamese, errr India's language, etc) is obviously impratical.

The obvious solution?Make a asian server, and have it in english.Now, everyone who wants to play the game and can speak decent english,CAN(besides the obvious of owning a computer, etc).The amount of potential customers is staggering.Its certaintly not dramatically low compared to Europe.Its definately financial feasible.

Instead you get thousands going "Oh that game looks nice, too bad to buy the game i have to buy a 2 way plane ticket to america, and then put up with the lag connecting across the ocean".The amount of potential profit lost here totally blows my mind.

This is also cited as the "Asian Stereotype Theory"....."An english version in Asia?Dont be ridiculous!No one speaks english there, its all chinese or whatever!"

So......general thoughts on the situation?

[Azara]

From what i understand of the situation, dev's and co consider the asian market to be a pretty much closed market, due to there being practically no interest in games other then mmo's and them producing so many of their own mmo's that there isnt any "room" for them to budge in so to speak.From what i remember the conclusion was that it would take a lo of money to break into theasian market and then if they did it would be a huge risk, meaning no one has had the balls to do so yet.

[A176]

Question: Asia (east) is the MMO "capital" of the world. True, they don't get so many of the MMOs produced over here, but they have their own titles for which they enjoy.

Currently, World of Warcraft is literally exploding in China.

[RIPOrks]

China Farmers?

[Captain Taco]

Why do MMORPG companies avoid Asia?

Bird Flu.

[BrettMan]

I thought it was potential court battles from the parents of kids who die playing the game for 57 hours streight....

[hiddensmoke]

They already have annoying and addicting games of there own they dont need our addicting and repitive games.

[Ammon Ra]

Why do MMORPG companies avoid Asia?

Bird Flu.
by your same logic, mmo companies should start avoiding europe aswell, as birdflu has spread to us here, and is starting to devastate domesticated birds. *cough* :nyah:

[Qwaar-Jet]

I dunno about the others, but in EVE, it's because of ISK farming.It's a huge problem, and it mostly happens in Asia.

[Ammon Ra]

what's isk farming? google doesn't help, it just confirms it has something to do with eve...

[Morte]

ISK is just EVE money.

[Ammon Ra]

Doesn't really explain what isk farming is, and why it's a problem. :)

[Morte]

Its gold farming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farmer) only with ISK. Clear enough ? :)

[Stripe7]

isk = money in EVE = gold in Fantasy RPG's = Real $$$ on EBAY. :D

[Ammon Ra]

i'm a mmorpg-illiterate, so i wouldn't have any idea without a decent linky, but i see now what you mean :) Thank you.

[Noir]

True, they don't get so many of the MMOs produced over here, but they have their own titles for which they enjoy.


Their own shitty titles for which they enjoy.


Currently, World of Warcraft is literally exploding in China

LOL @ exploding game boxes

[Gyokuran]

My question is why do Korean MMORPG companies avoid decent translators?

[Noir]

Cause they generally are "Teh Fail" all around.

[Inst]

Because korean -> english translators are expensive. I don't know about Korea, but in Japan, at least, they don't really "teach" english in schools. THey teach english grammar, but that's it.

[No Surrender]

Asia produces a massive amount of their own MMORPGs and western companies generally can't compete with local companies which have localization and is in the gamer's native language.

[Russian Ninja]

Pretty much: most English MMO's don't really get to Asia because they've already got a pretty big MMORPG indurstry over there plus a large & dedicated local market for it. It's very difficult to distribute it over there due to the above-mentioned translation issues as well as the fact that you've generally got to contract a seperate Asian distributor to get the games to the stores over there (not to mention transportation). Add in the fact that your game will be up against a lot of very good competition (http://archive.gamespy.com/landing/sun/) and it's not very hard to imagine why most western Publishers won't risk it trying to sell in the Asian market unless they're sure it'll sell well enough to at least break even, something that's not very easy given the cost build-up.

[Question]

I dont know about you but last i checked, there were very few good MMORPGs in asia.

Sure there are a lot.How many of those are poorly produced by korean companies with no support, proper translation and no dept?I mean i can probably name 3 or 4 such games with the exact same website design and game engine.You simply cant compare them to games like DDO in terms of quality.

SUN is......actually im fairly certain its the only korean MMORPG ive heard in years that is actually of good quality.And it certaintly isnt ANYWHERE near an english version.

WoW exploding in china isnt an english version for asia.In fact that further proves one of my points.

Yes there is localization, but as said, if the game is good enough, and if they speak english, they will come.

You cant compare a, say game in korean to a different game in english, when talking about how succesful in asia it will be.The korean game might be successful.....in korea.For the rest of asia?Australia, Malaysia, etc?No way.That is the difference between a localized version and a english version.An english version is going to have players from all around asia, with a lot of them being from australia and singapore, who traditionally speaking have been consistently left out of the decent MMORPG loop.Dont look at it as "Oh the game is only going to have xxx players from country y because of their local MMORPG".

The games im talking about.......the ones that never make it here........are generally high quality.The "market" in asia is flooded with free MMORPGs that are pratically carbon copies of each other.I cannot understand why it would be hard to break into such a market, if we assume quality will sell.

How can distributors be a problem?They have to get a european distributor anyway, and they do, and with very little problems apparently.

On a somewhat related note....why do companies routinely bitch that their product wont have enough exposure in asia?I see this all the time."Film x does not have much demand" and such.Of course it doesnt have much demand, its your fault we dont even realise it exists!You dont advertise or anything, and you expect us to know?

[n0z3k1ll3r]

An english version is going to have players from all around asia, with a lot of them being from australia and singapore, who traditionally speaking have been consistently left out of the decent MMORPG loop.I don't know about Singapore, but we get most of the major ones (GW, EQ2, WoW, and the upcoming DnD Online) down here.

[General Blaze]

Yeah, but us Asians rarely do get them, n0z3. Good luck trying to find Everquest 2, WoW or City of Heroes here. Lucky Down-Underians. :p

[TheDeadlyShoe]

This has been fairly obvious for quite a number of years.Think back.Which MMORPG that was released in NA(and then, subsequently europe, though for some it takes a while) in a boxed form with a country specific server, was then released in Asia, in english, with an asian server?

I know City of Heroes produced Asian content, I'm not sure if they launched in Asia or not. But they went through the effort to develop backstory and 'signature' heroes that were asiatic, and NCSoft is a korean company IIRC, so they're almost certain to do asian launches.

Actually I have respect for NCSoft in general, they're a pretty high class company. I think they're also making Auto Assault.

[Mac_Bug]

asians have different expectations of what a game provides - didn't you try those english version of korean games? take navy field, the developers must live in their parents' basements and are too used to not being informed about what's going on.

The other thing? Cheats. God those Chinese dudes can cheat.

On the other hand, I hear WoW is rather successful.

[Question]

Noz : Well australia is a different case.The stereotype seems to be the rest of the countries in asia dont speak english, so why bother selling english games there......also note that you dont get an asian server.

Mac : I and many others at mpogd have tried those english versions of korean games and are throughly sick of them.I dont know about the rest....but i can say that i would gladly "jump ship" if a quality MMORPG came out in asia.I would like to think the majority of asian gamers arent so bad that they cant recognise quality when they see it.

[Inst]

There's a social element created by korean society.

[Noir]

Well not everyone has Korean OCD, so there might be a couple of people who thinks those kinds of games blow serious amounts of goats and would prefer something else.

[WingedKagouti]

I know City of Heroes produced Asian content, I'm not sure if they launched in Asia or not. But they went through the effort to develop backstory and 'signature' heroes that were asiatic, and NCSoft is a korean company IIRC, so they're almost certain to do asian launches.

Actually I have respect for NCSoft in general, they're a pretty high class company. I think they're also making Auto Assault.
City of Hero has iirc already launched in Korea. No general asian launch yet though.

While NCSoft is a korean company they don't make too many games themselves, though they publish a lot.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Yeah, they're a publisher, but i think they work pretty closely with the dev companies... it's not like say EVE where CCP bought back the distribution rights from the lamewads.

[Akranadas]

Noz : Well australia is a different case.The stereotype seems to be the rest of the countries in asia dont speak english, so why bother selling english games there......also note that you dont get an asian server.

We get classed under Asia in terms of gaming, when really we should be our own market.

[Question]

Define "own market"......although you are classed as asia but because you all speak english, you have it better than the rest of asia.

[Nurizeko]

Asians dont speak english, duh.

How you came to conclusion theres a market for english MMO's in ASIA is beyond me.

Edit: okay, i felt like expanding on this and helping you understand why its impractical.

For a start, though flattering as it is, most asians infact dont speak english, or only know a few words, my girlfriend is from japan, she speaks english, because she went to university, just spend a week or two in japan and you would relise the general grasp of english is pretty poor, especially when you see the funny or otherwise innapropriate english names for stores, products and companies.

And this is a country that has an english speaking army to get cash off of, and that teaches english at highschool level.

Most Japanese speak Japanese and that is enough for them.

In other Asian countries where theres even less reason for english or less english education, the number of english speakers is drastically smaller.

Not to mention those that DO speak english, not all of them are interested in gaming.

Finally, Asia has its own games, they prefer their own styles (the prevailing style seeming to be a mix of the look and sound and feel of final-fantasy + any given fighting game).
I found from my entire stay in Japan, only 1 or 2 western titles, or games found in the west, everything else was alien and previously un-known to me (and un-interesting, im not into the japanese look and feel of games) and very much the unique asian style and feel of gaming.

There is neither a profittable market nor a demand for english MMO's, simple as.

Dont take it so bad, chances are the asians would out-perform even the most die-hard MMO player of the west, and us westerners would get bored of the game being over-run by koreans with too much money and too much time on their hands.

[Gyokuran]

Because korean -> english translators are expensive. I don't know about Korea, but in Japan, at least, they don't really "teach" english in schools. THey teach english grammar, but that's it.
All it woud take is to hire a poor english major to fix up the engrish as a part time job.

[Question]

Japan has serious issues with its education system english wise.I wouldnt use that as an example

[Nurizeko]

But it is an example, this is the most english friendly country in asia-proper (australia is a different continent) and its still not enough to warrant english-language games.

Not to mention the fact they have their own games and styles.

[Question]

Are we distinguishing between SE asia and asia here?Im confused about the "different continent" part.

[Russian Ninja]

Ummm, Australia isn't part of Asia at all. It's an Island, a Country and a seperate Continent all rolled into one. This also gives rise to it's "own market". Australia is a Western country in the Far East. We have our own dedicated market out here, but the problem is that due to the transportation issues involved it is somewhat difficult to get a quick release on anything that isn't big. We can be up to 6-12 months behind a US release because of this. However it's still a whole lot better than in the Asian continent because there's a lot more insentive to distribute games here and there's no translation issues.

Incidentally, I find that South East Asia (particularly Singapore and Thailand, but also India, Pakistan and so on) is quite a different market than the more northern Asian countries. Because they have little in the way of localised game's producers, they generally are more exposed to Western games, inclding MMORPG's, than the countries of North Asia. Of course some are not exposed much at all (like Burma), but in general I find this is the case.

[Akranadas]

I meant in regions, in terms of distribution i think we're classed as asia-pacific.

[Russian Ninja]

I think you may be right. It does always save to transport in bulk, so I'm guessing that when companies decide to distribute out here they cover the entire area rather than just Australia. It would also explain why countries like the above mentioned Singapore and Thailand have a larger exposure to Western games than their North-Asian counterparts.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Wish they'd just class us as a really really westerly part of America. Then we'd get things sooner and with better support.

[Nurizeko]

But Bush would be your president and Presidental election politics would be jazzed up like the latest all-star boxing fight between the two biggest prize fighters of the day.

[Azara]

mmo's as the social market? mmo's ARE the market there, they ave more internet cafe's for hanging out then they do night clubs. Their idea of hanging out is going to a internet cafe and having a good time gaming socially.
In regard to crappy mmo's in asia, that is actually true, there are incredibly few games that are actually good when compared to the good ones, in fact a korean game designer who was on the inside of things and as such wished to be anonymous admitted that the vast majority of mmo's in Korea and other asian countries are actually nothing more then glorified chat programs.

[Starblade]

I like how you're bound and determined to bring Bush up in almost every thread possible. You must really love him.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

and as such wished to be anonymous admitted that the vast majority of mmo's in Korea and other asian countries are actually nothing more then glorified chat programs.

I think all MMOs rely on that aspect, though.

i mean name a game where you haven't seen someone say "I'd quit if it wern't for the social aspect."

[Azara]

agreed, but he point the korean guy was making was that too many mmo's were just that chat systems, of course there are mmo's that people dont leave if not forthe chat, but they also have a not broken game with the chat system, in asia a large majority of mmo's are half-made on par with retarded runescape, and swamped with glitches and bugs, with the chat system the only thing that keeps them barely breathing.

[A176]

I like how you're bound and determined to bring Bush up in almost every thread possible. You must really love him.

Atleast it was a genuine reply.

As for MMOs being chat programs; I think is a trait common to all mmos. Prove me otherwise.

[Bonnet]

Planetside.

[Evaders99]

There's very high quality Korean MMOs.. been playing Lineage 2 myself.
Then there are the 2D kind like Maple Story and Gunbound.

Just because they aren't on the story shelves, doesn't mean they aren't successful games. A lot of them have a big market of foreign users.

... in terms of English, a lot of asian countries stress English as a part of their curriculum. It is the second language many of them learn, not just learn for simple phrases but actually communicate and use everyday. This is especially true in China, where it is required. Given the shear amount of students they have, (some estimates state up to 300 Million Chinese students of English) - I'm not really surprised when I find someone from China writing quite well in English.

Unfortunately, there are far less Americans studying Chinese. As we continue to increase business with China, I think we'll lose out here when they can understand us better than we can understand them :)

Translating will probably hit most game publishers hard, especially to localize into language like Chinese. It is easier with western languages using a roman alphabet. Finding the appropriate phrase in Chinese may not be possible.. just translating words phonetically may take quite a while.

[Nurizeko]

Evader, do you have evidence to back up the claim so many chinese and asians are learning english?.

It might be compulsory in high school but for my education i still only know a few piddy words in german despite my education in it.

Most asians speak their mother tongue and seemed content staying with that.

English speakers are still a fraction and still not worth the time marketting western english titles in their country, since even fewer of those english speakers play games.

[Dys]

I believe Inst was right when he said there is a social element to ASIAN gamers.

I have lived in SE aisa blah blah blah observed some asian gamers (LAN cafes) and I see it as a much more pusedosocial activity (in that the asian gamers are all grouped together in a single large room full of computers, as opposed to ones own room).

The impression I get of them is that they are there enjoying themselves, but kinda in a just, killing time sort of way. Instead of being delinquents and vandalizing public property (I don't mean this is inherent to asian people! But I'm referring to the sort of idle activity disaffected/disorientated youth engages in) they're enclosed in this virtual world where they compete instead.

I find that asian gamers are much less 'involved' in the game they play, a lot just play them semi-mechanically. For instance most people who play Homeworld and DoW play it for the fluff and coolness! of it. It seems that western people (to generalize) connect with the game they play more than asian gamers do. In this way, I think I've identified it as a more social/cultural difference between western gamers and asian gamers.

Question, I see you as a much more westernized asian gamer than your average asian gamer.