Aliens microbes?! Holy crap not a joke

[Starfisher]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/06/02/red.rain/index.html

I can't wait to see how this turns out. Either we've got scientific hoax number 95031 on our plates, or something really freaking cool.

[Riess]

Midichlorians!

Other theories have implicated fungal spores, red dust swept up from the Arabian peninsula, even a fine mist of blood cells produced by a meteor striking a high-flying flock of bats.
Laugh.

Interesting find, I'm curious what it will turn out to be - hopefully nothing that kills us all in horrible, horrible ways, right?

[Rincewind]

Holy crap indeed!

[Tiresias]

Black Cancer! Omg! Except it's red...

Awesome awesome, I hope it's not a hoax or some other explanation.

[BmB]

Mucho interesting... mucho, mucho interesting.

Indeed, strange is this.

[snrjefe]

Other theories have implicated...even a fine mist of blood cells produced by a meteor striking a high-flying flock of bats.

Worst...theory...ever. I don't think this even passes Occham's razor. A life bearing meteor seems more plausible than enough bats being annihilated by a rock from space to rain red blood cells over parts of India.

[Starfisher]

Seeing as the initial red rain happened in 2001, and we're still alive, we should be ok. Hopefully. MAYBE ITS THE BIRD FLU

Yeah, the bat thing cracked me up as well. GG theory.

[ceejayoz]

Holy shit.

600 degrees Fahrenheit?

If this is true, the habitable zone just got a lot larger.

[BmB]

Got a lot larger? It always has been. I think scientists view of what is plausible in life... especially alien life (if any) is way too narrow. Heck, one theory goes that Earths lower layers may be inhabited by blobs of silicon based lifeforms.

[snrjefe]

@BmB23 Blobs of silicon based life-forms? You mean like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/STDevilDark.jpg

Really though, there's pretty resiliant stuff around the deep ocean thermal vents. Not sure how hot it gets there, but it's not exactly standard temperature and pressure.

[Grabnutz]

Has this been reported on any other sites yet?

[Da_Fish]

Oh God, I just hope they bring back Elvis! :)

[Dankest Mango]

Popular Science had an article on this last month with pretty much the same info.
I say thier only the first wave of an alien invasion. Their scanning our brainwaves.

[Grabnutz]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/KingBurriss/Aliens.jpg

[hiddensmoke]

but it's not exactly standard temperature and pressure.

Standard to us you mean? We are used to this standard tempature but i doubt many other lifeforms find our favoriable tempature standard to themselves.

[Sajuukar]

OMG, how do you think they replicate if they don't do it through DNA? Could it just be made of different stuff...???

We may have to redefine life...

I always though too, if I were an intelligent alien race that wanted to take over earth, I wouldn't charge in guns blazing. I'd seed the planet with some microorganism that would lie dormant long enough to spread throughout the entire planet and then strike... heh, not that I actually believe this to be anything like that, but let's not rule out everything...

[hiddensmoke]

Well if this proves to be (M@THERF#CKIN!) true (SCIENCE!) then it definatly strenghtens the theory that the earth was seeded with life from outer space. And sense water came from asteroids it could be possible it brought other things with the water.

[Beelzebuddy]

Guys, don't get your hopes up. He's a kook.

New biology of red rain extremophiles prove cometary panspermia (http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0312639) is the title of his paper in a lower-tier journal. If his results really were convincing he'd be in Nature and Science at least, plus wherever else he chose to publish.

But that's probably because his results aren't convincing. Leafing through the paper I linked above, his entire argument seems to rest on a few fluorescence tests for DNA that he fails to provide images of but assures us that the results were negative even though, okay, there was some fluorescence that he can't quite explain. He then goes on to describe the incredibly complicated life cycle of these microbes, providing as evidence four random pictures.

I don't buy it. Neither should you. He's got something interesting there, but it's going with him into the grave he's digging for himself.

[BmB]

In 3 years they will have evolved into deadly MIND WORMS!

We will all suffer and die while our incapable governments discuss it in a committee. Earth will be a wasteland and a mind-worm heaven by... (drumroll) 2012!

[snrjefe]

@hiddensmoke: I meant Standard Temperature and Pressure as a scientific constant.

In chemistry and other sciences, STP or standard temperature and pressure is a standard set of conditions for experimental measurements, to enable comparisons to be made between sets of data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_temperature_and_pressure

[Grabnutz]

That Wiki says standard temp is 273K (OC), I was always tought it as 298K (25C), and checking my chem textbook, thats right.
Oh well, not exactly on topic. Time to read through Beelzebuddy's link

[Starfisher]

Hoax number 9128319 it is. Funny how the CNN article claims that the guy is "skeptical" of his own idea.

[Fiirks]

That Wiki says standard temp is 273K (OC), I was always tought it as 298K (25C), and checking my chem textbook, thats right.

STP: 273K and 101.3kPa. Definetly not at 25C. Your chemistry book is crazy.

I love hoaxes, they're so fun. Sucks for this guy though, hes made himself look like a royal asshat.

[DFrost]

That Wiki says standard temp is 273K (OC), I was always tought it as 298K (25C), and checking my chem textbook, thats right.

Check again. 25C is room temperature, which is often used for those chemistry problems in textbooks. 0C is standard temperature.

[SquidDNA]

It's really a pity how badly this paper is written. He may well have something really interesting here but he's shown it so poorly.

For instance: DNA detection was carried out by several means, one of which was EtBr staining. Pretty standard. To be absolutely certain the cells were ruptured, they used liquid N2 while crushing them. Okay, fine, but did he confirm disruption of the cells microscopically? I mean, these things thrive at 300'C apparently, what makes you think lN2 is going to rupture them unless you checked?

Anothing thing: 200nm abosrbance was higher at 300 then 200'C because of the higher culture density. Well shit, man, do you think you could compare this to the difference in intensities at 600nm just to be sure? On the same figure? No?

Great, there's protein. How about a 2D western to prove that there's lots of independent species of protein? That's provided you actually CAN lyse the cells by the way. Try sonicating them ffs. Try adding detergent.

I'm not saying this guy is a liar, I'm saying that a potentially huge discovery is resting in the hands of someone who is obviously not prepared to examine it very thoroughly.

Polly, I think it's a bit harsh to say he's an outright kook just because the evidence (albeit weakly) supports the existence a form of life wholly different than anything we've seen the hundred years plus of microbiology.

Also, these are definitely carbon-based, given that experiments were done using ethanol as a, well, carbon source. I mean, maybe he should check for rising CO2 levels as well? Or carbonate levels, rather, since they grow in superheated steam?

Even if totally true this wouldn't show that life on Earth came from above. After all, this is NOTHING LIKE life here. It would, however, be strong support for the principle of panspermia-- that life CAN move from one planet to another.

Finally, what the hell are they hoping to prove by checking carbon isotopes in these? They've been growing this whole time, using normal carbon. Of course they'll look normal.

[Nurizeko]

Meh, when i read it it didnt raise any hopes or alarms, it just said "some guy who is apparently a scientist said some red rain is indicative of alien life.

The simplest explination is ussually the correct one, as some say, i reckon its probably just red pigmented dust grains and stuff, why he claims it to be life?, probably to lend credit to his space-seeding explination.

Its not a bad idea but its not been proven, i can see how he might have used this as a way to provide evidence for his hypothesis which might not actually be real evidence.

I agree, theres no reason for such flimsy evidence, if he's got the proof, give it all, theres no reson to hold back unless you;ve got nothing.

Still yet another bajillionth maybe-but-probably-a-nothing to follow.

[Starfisher]

Er, it does divide and such, so it probably is some strange microbe, not pigment. That it's completely alien is a much bigger leap to make.

[LordZon]

Guys, don't get your hopes up. He's a kook.

When he's on with Art Bell you'll know for sure.

[Kuscheltier]

I have just RTFA and the whole thing sounds like a plain hoax.

"Louis's theory holds special appeal for Wickramasinghe. A quarter of a century ago, he co-authored the modern theory of panspermia, which posits that bacteria-riddled space rocks seeded life on Earth."

Saying that Michael Jackson is an Alien sounds more plausible to me :P

While we are at it. 600 degrees Fahrenheit isnt as hot as it sounds. I recall reading an article about microbes living near (though you could say literally inside) undersea-volcanoes. The mentioned microbes actually _need_ the heat in the proximity of these volcanoes.

[Dimension]

I find it rather weird how he sent that stuff to an astronomer. he should've sent it to a microbiologist.

squid made some excellent points, some of them were clearly taken directly from my brain (meaning how he failed to ensure the cells are rupture, and how he hopes to gain any info from carbon isotope analysis, which is BS for the reason squid stated).

[SquidDNA]

Kuscheltier, reading comprehension ftl. He contrasts the temperatures he's working with and the temperatures that extreme thermophiles live in-- there's really no comparison.

[Jurgensmelta]

it could just be taco bell special sauce, maybe a truck broke down and the sauce evaporated into the atmosphere.

[Grabnutz]

My bad on the 298 thing, its just that for working with Enthalpy changes etc.

[hiddensmoke]

I dont think they have taco bell in India.

This guy clearly fails in exucution of his testing although hes not lacking in the idea appartment.

[Ammon Ra]

They came from MARS. :Pimp:

[Nurizeko]

Er, it does divide and such, so it probably is some strange microbe, not pigment. That it's completely alien is a much bigger leap to make.

Oh, I thought someone who read the journal and stuff said all he had was 4 photo's of not much or something.

Still if it is life theres no reason to wildly claim its from outerspace.

[Beelzebuddy]

That was me. I wasn't contesting that they were multiplying, I was skeptical of the evidence presented for his incredibly complicated division cycle.

But you shouldn't rely on other people's opinions, it only leads to mistakes like this. RTFA yourself, and see what you think.

[Starfisher]

It's interesting how he postulates that life was seeded from space, yet claims also that microbes in space probably wouldn't have DNA at all. That just sounds off - why, or even how, would they evolve DNA when they already have a life cycle independant of it?

[hiddensmoke]

I dont think he is claiming that these microbes gave our planet life so he can simply claim that another group of microbes with DNA gave our planet life.

[guardsman lover]

Guys... are the Tyranids trying to get to us or something?

Better get your selenium shampoos ready guys! The movie of Evolution has begun....

[BmB]

Guys... are the Tyranids trying to get to us or something?

Better get your selenium shampoos ready guys! The movie of Evolution has begun....
Hey! I made that reference first!

[SchizoBadger]

Hmm well viruses don't have true DNA, maybe this stuff is the ancestral link to modern day viruses... or maybe it is alien A1 Steak Sauce and in a thousand years someone will throw the world on a grill and have a barbecue! :jest:

[Dimension]

Hmm well viruses don't have true DNA

you're wrong.

they have true DNA. or true RNA. depends on whether its a retrovirus or not. but they do have true DNA no matter which way you cut it.

[guardsman lover]

Or.. those things can be something else. Maybe a combo virus/bacteria?

[ceejayoz]

Maybe a combo virus/bacteria? You might as well combine a monkey with a rainbow and call it a combo rainbow/monkey. It isn't possible.

[Starfisher]

HOLY CRAP

This is a true story:
I was at six flags with a friend, and we got on a roller coaster. Behind us were two young children, talking excitedly about the ride.

Then, in the middle of the whole thing, as we were going up a hill, one of them blurts out, "SAVE US RAINBOW MONKEYS!"

I never laughed that hard before and have not since I heard that, but it does prove that rainbow monkeys are indeed possible.

[TBS]

http://images.opentopia.com/enc/snap/1356/1355775.jpg

[SquidDNA]

Well it's possible, Ceejay, it just does nothing to explain what this is. After all, human cells have coevolved with dormant, dumbed down viruses, and the thinking is that viruses actually CAME FROM retrotransposons. Again, however, saying "maybe they're bacteria AND viruses" is ignorant guesswork.

[Scribble]

I recall reading about this in new scientist a while back and was under the impression that the red rain was actually Haematococcus pluvialis (http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/PDB/Images/Chlorophyta/Haematococcus/index.html) with Trentepohlia (http://www-biol.paisley.ac.uk/bioref/Chlorophyta/Trentepohlia.html) being an outside bet?

[SquidDNA]

Striking morphological similarities, no doubt about that.

[Scribble]

Striking morphological similarities, no doubt about that.

Your mean :P

But I was under the impression that Pluvialis had been identified as the 'culprit in a recent bought of indian 'red rain' while I know that Trentepohlia akinetes where the couse of a prior instance. Pft I shouldnt talk about things I dont understand.