Tactical map on 2e monitor?

[ghodan]

I tried the search option but could not find anybody asking this question:

In the full version of CoH will there be a option so u can see the tactical map on a 2e monitor?

Would be a logical option because almost every model of graphics card got dual monitor support.
To bad almost no game developer company make/support some kind of usefull function for a second monitor.

Would be a nice option if CoH would have it.

And before the winers come and complain about having more tactical info then a aponent who dont have 2 monitors etc , you could make a option for the guy hosting a game to allow or disable this 2e monitor option for a online game.

[Mogolov]

I second this entirely, I've been hoping that this feature would be involved somewhere. I'd rather have this option than have a mini-map if possible.

[ÜberJumper]

I don't think so, but that'd sure be cool

[Mogolov]

Wouldnt it just! I'd much rather be able to have one screen dedicated to the map and another monitor dedicated to watching the mayhem unfold before me.

Oh well, we can but hope Tranj et all see this and think..."they maybe onto something". ;)


:D

[Tiresias]

yeah that would be awesome, got one hooked up now

[Mogolov]

one of my mates at work has 4 at home, I asked why he had so many and he didnt really know. :lol:

Two is enough for me!

[Tranj]

It would be cool. I'll ask the graphics guys, then duck when they start throwing things at me.

[Mogolov]

Nice1 Tranj! I'm sure they'll understand.


Unless of course that means re-writing the entire code! :lol:

[theBlind]

You go Tranj. Tell 'em who's boss!






Then run and cover :p

[OjKa]

thats a real nice idea, would look pretty cool


:hwpilot:

[hotdrop]

Thats an unfair advantage as cool as that may be.

[FalseMyrmidon]

Yes, having a better computer is an advantage when playing graphically intense games. Are you new to PC games?

[Parias]

Thats an unfair advantage as cool as that may be.

By the same logic, varied players will have an 'unfair advantage' in Supreme Commander too then, I guess. SC will be taking full advantage of dynamic multi-monitor functions for any properly equipped player.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment here though - being able to push the tactical map to a secondary display would be very nifty.

[Akranadas]

Actually, In essance, Low spec computer have an advangtage over higher ones. With all the detail turned down, it is easier to spot units.

Even though I wouldnt use this feature, it is indeed cool.

[Dr_Funkenstein]

I would use this feature. I have no market data to support this but I think dual-monitor setups are becoming more common; especially since ati and nvidia have been shipping all cards with hydravision and dualview, respectively, for over a year.

For the marketing guys this could be a point of differentiation.

[jayze302]

my 2 cents

dam cool idea, i would use this for sure.

oh and BTW how is having a better system an advantage? if someone pays the cash for the system they should get more for their money

[hotdrop]

Marketing needs to differnetinate this game from a fps before they even the to taking about cool features :)

[Mogolov]

yeah man, my mate swore blindly this was an FPS until i showed him some of the video's :lol:

From the screenshots, you can hardly tell the difference!:D



So Tranj, any joy on bribing the graphics boys to lay on some dual monitor support? ;)

[ghodan]

Yo Trajn,

What whas the reply of the Graphics department?

[rebb]

I too think that this would essentially create a 2-Class Player Society. The ones that happen to afford a 2nd Monitor, and the ones that don't.

If Supreme Commander supports this, then thats already one reason for me to not get it.

[ghodan]

Like i said in my first post about this dual screen OPTION (READ OPTION) :

Before the winers come and complain about having more tactical info then a aponent who dont have 2 monitors etc , you could make a option for the guy hosting a game to allow or disable this 2e monitor option for a online game.


And dont act like a 2e monitor cost alot.
You can get a 17 inch CRT for 90 euro or less.

Not buying SC then u will miss out on alot.
But the developer will not care that u will not buy it.
And u must not have been a old school TA player that craves for a TA2.

And if 2 players would fight and one would have a 2e monitor with the full screen tactical map. It does not mean he will win.
This game is about tactics and smart movement/deplayment.
2e monitor with full screen map wil not make the player more good in playing this RTS.

[ceejayoz]

I too think that this would essentially create a 2-Class Player Society. The ones that happen to afford a 2nd Monitor, and the ones that don't. Already exists - fast connections versus slow connections, fast computers versus slow computers, et cetera. ghodan's potential solution is a good one, too.

[jesukrixto]

Computers make a 2-class society. The ones that happen to afford a computer, and the ones that don't.

Did you get a computer?

Besides, 3 weeks ago I got a 17" old monitor for 25€ while my flat one got repaired. 25€...that's less than any of the games we're talking about. A second-hand monitor is not expensive, at all, particularly if you have the room for a non-flat one.

This'd be the best feature ever. However I'd say that if it wasn't planned, then they won't rush it in for the release of the game. But the idea could get used in the future...

[rebb]

Ok, if it would be an option that all Players need to agree on ( or at least the same amount of people per team, say if 1 guy on one Team wants Dual Monitor, then another Guy on the Opposing Team may also enable it etc ), then it would be fine.

[ghodan]

Best option is that the Host of that game/match decide if its allowed (enabled) or not.

That way its always fair.
Dont like that the game u joint support dual monitor? joint a other room or host yourself.

Perfect in my opinion....now lets hope tranj can get the option/feature in.

[Mogolov]

I can't believe there are people complaining that this would cause a 2-tier society within gaming.

You need to get out more.

[docvego]

yeah really, what's next? Needing host option to disable "extra" buttons on mice since it creates an unfair advantage? Nerfing Optical Mice? How about people that don't have computer speakers! We need a host "mute" option too!

Let's not forget game resolution, if one player is playing at 800x600 and another is at 1280x1024 this also creates an unfair advantage. So I also propose that the host can set the max resolution setting.

I'm with Mogolov on this one, you guys are crazy.:moose:

[jayze302]

lets not forget those with DSL connections, or what about processor speed or amount of ram?

I can see it now little check boxes for the host on what is allowed and not allowed

Dual monitors [] ok we let that in
DSL connection [] ok its not that big of advantage
cable internet [X] hell no they will pwn me!
4+ gigs of ram [X] get those cheaters out!
AMD processor [] they suck they can play
Intel processor [X] Nerf THose!

honestly all we are talking about is a cool little feature, not a unfair advantage.

Get your panties out of a bunch rebb

[jayze302]

if you would look you would see this post is a discussion about getting this in the game. Tranj proposed it to the programmers because its a good idea.

Stop crying bud

Sounds like people are already making excuses why they cant win

[Xan]

Rebb, thank's for adding something to the discussion.

Now, so I actually add something...

I think giving the option for using a second monitor as the Tactical Map is a good idea, despite me only having one monitor.

[Maeg]

This function would take RTS gaming to a new level, and THQ/Relic could be the ones who brings it to the gamescene. I would use this option.

I say - Go for it THQ/Relic!

[ceejayoz]

rebb, if you have a quibble with the way people are posting, take it up in Forum Issues or with a moderator. Spamming "Thanks for adding something to the discussion." in reply to each post you don't like is not acceptable.

Back on topic now, please.

[AJ.eightFive]

Great idea, hope to see it implemented!

[Rushyo]

This would definately increase the game's marketability and I know it is a feature I would definately use.

[Demon_Eyes]

I absolutely LOVE the tac map on a a second monitor idea, I would go and get a second monitor just for for that reason alone! I would also like to be able to minimize the menu bar, it is pretty big and gets in the way a lot of the time.

[Mr Tyranny]

It would be cool. I'll ask the graphics guys, then duck when they start throwing things at me.

Just appeal to their sense of competition.. Say.. "Well.. Chris Roberts team did it.."

Of course having one of the interns mention that to them might be the wiser route.. Interns are expendable after all.. :nyah:

[Delphy]

Far too many games these days ignore the presence of a second monitor, so I'd love to see this too - a purely 2d tac map display wouldn't slow things down too much in terms of 3d rendering.

Definately gets a vote from me for my setup.

[Woogie]

for this to work id like a better more detailed tactical map... not just some bigger version of the minimap...

[theBlind]

Pssst - Woogie: Hit zero on your numpad sometimes, or click that blue arrow above the minimap. :)

[Woogie]

i meant better icons for units such as the actual unit icon (sniper is a reticule, engineer is a spanner, mg is 3 bullets) so better unit tracking.

buildings, have them show up on maps.

enemy unit movement, show them up on the map when they appear in your territory and what units they are, little things that will make the map better.

if they implement waypoints and patrolling maybe the option to turn on patrol routes for units you have so you can survey what weakpoints you have in your defences.

the option to turn on defensive builings (MG bunkers) and have there Line of fire appear for a similar effect

or the things suggested in this (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=101173) thread would be nice

[Mr.Guybrush]

There is no issue here.

I have a widescreen monitor, that allows me to see more than an average monitor would. Thats a very unfair advantage espically in fps, but developers have put the support in. Dual monitor support is a terrific idea, and is most deffiantly a huge plus mark when it comes to considering which game to buy.

[Mogolov]

I know bumping this from such a long time ago is a sin and i will burn in hell for it....but!


I don't suppose Tranj has any news on this at all? Just so i can eliminate it from my enquires.:)

[sauce]

This would rock, but I'm curious about how to handle the mouse. Do we tab between monitors, but then lose the tab between units feature? Do we allow the mouse to travel between the monitors, which means we have to disable camera panning when the mouse hits the side of the monitor? There are a few UI issues to account for before we look at implementing rendering across two monitors.

[Edwin]

Maybe a toggle so you can turn the panning on and off?

With the toggle off the screen tabs over to the map and the map is now the focus.

With the toggle on, the highlighted item in game stays on and the focus will only switch to the commander map if it is clicked.

Just a suggestion. Maybe email Gas Powered Games and ask them how they are doing it.

[theBlind]

Have another hotkey to switch between the monitors? Keypad enter for example, chat is OK with only one hotkey.


*Laptop user cries somewhere*
Sheesh, silly boy, why do you buy a laptop to play. Back into your corner! ;)

[TimeB]

sauce, I'd recommend having an alternate tab key, if you want to go with tabbing. You could also simply stick with the current button for the tactical map instead jumping the mouse to that screen, and back. If someone binds a key for that, you use that for your alternate tab. Otherwise, panning is either done by middle mouse button (which I think needs two improvements: firstly, seeing as it works black and white style, an icon that attatches to the ground and feels like you're moving the world, and secondly, the option to make it work more simcity 4 style and just drag in the direction you want to pan, which would also be nice to have visual feedback on) or by moving to the proximity of the screen. A third option is cursor keys/wasd/bindable keys for panning as well.

I'm a firm believer that there is no one right way to do a UI. Everyone has preferences, and thus a UI should be customizable. Some people might find a second monitor too distracting, or too expensive. Some people don't like modding their WoW UI. Others have done so to great effect, and probably all the hardcore players do, which does create the gap people are talking about. In no way does that mean double screen is something that should be forced off. There is no extra information, just more accessibility to it. It still requires you to take your eyes off the battlefield, just like any single-screen player has to do.

[Delphy]

Having a hotkey that turns off the camera panning, allowing you to simply move the mouse to the second window, would be best for me.

[Mogolov]

Originally Posted By sauce
This would rock, but I'm curious about how to handle the mouse. Do we tab between monitors, but then lose the tab between units feature? Do we allow the mouse to travel between the monitors, which means we have to disable camera panning when the mouse hits the side of the monitor? There are a few UI issues to account for before we look at implementing rendering across two monitors.

I think we'd need to use a combo of tab + ctrl or something to that affect. Shift + tab will just cause all sorts of problems lol.

I dont think disabling camera pan on one side will be helpful, probably more annoying after a while.

It might be worth just disabling the mouse on the 2nd monitor so it just acts as a tactical reference rather than anything, not sure what folks would think of that tho.

[ceejayoz]

Does the second monitor actually need the mouse? Sure, it'd be a little useful, but couldn't it function as a static map that you don't click on etc?

If you need to move the map you can just click on the appropriate minimap spot, after all.

Mouse would be great, sure, but if you can't find an intuitive way of doing it it isn't absolutely necessary, right?

[Dr_Funkenstein]

Honestly i'm fine with the 2nd monitor map being non-interactive.

[Edwin]

After playing the beta for quite sometime now I really can't think of a use for the commander map. The only thing I can see it being used for is for setting the field of fire for the long range artillery. So hold right click in the main game window and just watch the field of fire on the commander map to see if it is to your satisfaction.

Another use would be to show you where events take place.

I think non-interactive would be ideal.

[Mogolov]

looks like we have a winner then.


All in favour of a non-interactive map for the 2nd monitor, say "ai!" :)


So as long as it will display any events like the sighting of enemy troops, supplies and territory, it should be a clear winner.

I think it'll give you more of a "command centre" type feeling to it.

[docvego]

I think it's worth it to toss the toggle key in there.

That way it can be totally non-interactive, or if you really want to be able to click on something and give an order, you'll be able to as well. That way *everyone* can be happy.

Though if coding in the toggle thing is too much of a pain, I'd be more than happy with non-interactive. It's better than nothing for sure. Though it would be totally awesome to be able to click somewhere on the Tactical screen and have the Game screen focus on that spot.

Hope this works out!

[Ressev]

Ah yes, the good old argument: "if Johnny can't have it no one can." Stuipid argument really.

If 2e support was implemented it would be a darn fine thing.

[ceejayoz]

I suppose the existing "0" hotkey could be used, too. After all, that's the one for the tac map already...

[Mogolov]

good point indeed, that way it will work for everyone, 2 monitors or not.

In theory of course...;)


I really hope this gets implemented, it would definately cap off probably "the best RTS game EVER!" . :)

I'm not grovelling, honest. ;)

[Mogolov]

any update on this at all?

I know i will probably have to wait until its released in the uk but can anyone shed some light?

Or was it too late to introduce the idea into final release?

[XkaOnslaught]

touchscreen LCDs anyone? :D

[Seraphim2150]

will just have to go and dig out the second monitor.......

how hard would it be to add this feature

[Dr Reaper]

I have been waiting for second monitor support for a long time. I would use this for sure.

[FootKnight]

I only have one monitor, but I think this is an excellent idea. I might even try to find another monitor if this gets implemented.

[VagabonD]

How is SUPCOM implementing this?

I think static would be better than nothing! Being able to glance over and use the tact would enable myself and SEVERAL other friends to enjoy the game more. Dont get me wrong I LOVE the game as is, but it would definately appear, and be more strategic if its more accessible to the average gamer.

Overall a toggle would be fine. You lose all control of the "game" while in tact control mode, and vice versa. If you click on the tact map to zoom in, it takes your game monitor to that point and returns mouse control.

Thoughts? Updates? -- I am very impressed by the continual support from Relic and THQ. Its GREAT to see posts looking and giving insight from the devs/pubs.

[lordkosc]

Overall a toggle would be fine. You lose all control of the "game" while in tact control mode, and vice versa. If you click on the tact map to zoom in, it takes your game monitor to that point and returns mouse control.

That would be awesome!..... But now what do I put on my 3rd monitor? :hmm:

[Danger30Q]

There seems to be a lot of enthusiasm regarding the dual-monitor support but can a Relic rep give us an update as to how realistic this could be in the future? Is it possible? Have the graphics guys shot down the idea already?

I would be perfectly happy with non-interactive tactical map on the 2nd monitor.

[Squeetard]

The limitations come from the dx9 platform. That is why you don't see this.

[ghodan]

Np DX9 is not the limitation.
For a example see Startrek armada 1 and 2.(DX 8 games? Update:Just checked, Armada 1 can even run on DX7!)
They have dual monitor support.
Monitor 1 is tradional RTS view.
And monitor 2 has a close up action view (It shows stuff where there is a battle on the map going on)

But its not going to happen in CoH (soon?) this is the message that i got from Tranj:
Re: Dual monitor support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodan
Hi Tranj,

So did u ask the graphics team about the 2e monitor option for a full screen tactical map?


http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=100955


Not gonna happen. It would open a couple cans of worms given how it interacts with the render targets, or some other such jargon I couldn't quite grasp. It's on the investigation list for the future though.

[Mini21]

A real support for dual screen setups (besides capturing the mouse so that it wont leave play area in fullscreen games ;) would really rock! But I'm not holding my breath, I have this kind of setup for over 5 years now and I've yet to find a game that I like playing and that supports that kind of setup.

[--eFTy-->]

Pooh. I would have ran out to get a second monitor the csecond support would have been announced...
:sprint:

[ghodan]

He Relic, while you guys are working on a DX10 patch for this game ,is this option going to be sneaked in?

I played Supreme commander beta with 2e monitor and had the tactical map on it..... now i am hooked on that option.

Every RTS thats new or still being build should have it as a standard option.

[Ahenian]

I think a guy at gr.org was able to get this to work for single player.

[CodE-E]

Yeah, dual-monitor support would be kinda neat. I only have one monitor, but I'd consider buying a 2nd if more games would support it somehow.

I think the best and also simplest configuration would be to have the tactical map be static on the 2nd monitor, and have some quick-scroll button on the mouse by default (maybe middle mouse). Is there actually some quick-scroll funtion already? With a quick-scroll function one wouldn't really need to make selections and stuff on the tactical map.

[volkov956]

Dual Screen systems lol I have 4 rigs on this desk only enough room for 1 monitor each not 2.... Would be a neat idea for the people who have 2 monitors though

[ISLAND_KNIGHT]

At this time one can use the second monitor to display a 'strategic' map.

I go into a game on any map (including the new custom maps), make a screen shot of the tactical map - oriented in the right direction for the side you are playing. I then immediately exit, and label the screenshot with the map's name.

I keep a file folder of all the maps (game and the new custom maps), which I view (sometimes with a LAN partner) to choose a map to play.

I then put this up on the windows viewer, on the second monitor, and use it before the game to decide on the strategy I will use on that map (sometimes with a LAN partner), and during the game to decide on any changes in the strategy. The windows viewer/map stays visible with the game running, althought you cannot access that monitor to change anything (eg. it is a static map).

It is no longer a tactical map as you do not get any updates on that map as the game progresses. You can still call up the in-game tactical map (hotkey 'num 0') but it then it of course blocks off the main game screen.

I am like everyone else with a second monitor - I would love to have the ever changing tactical map on my second monitor, instead of the static strategic map I now use. I would buy an 'expansion' pack even if that was the only feature on the expansion disk!

[Dellian]

Wow amazing idea! I only have one monitor but if this was ever implimented (I think it's safe to say we all want it) I would rush out and get a cheapy 17".
Just imagine how much for immersive the game would/could be!

I'm not one to ask for favors but how about an update Relic? Yes... No?

[Xav]

I think it would be cool too. Although i don't have another monitor atm, i would probably get one if it were possible :awesome:

[BoogieMan]

I actually thought about this playing on my fiance's system, which has two 21'' flatscreens. So I agree! Sounds like a good idea. I'd hook up one of my other monitors for that.

[ghodan]

To Tranj:

So the team who could implement this was not eager to because it would open a cans of worms...

Wel since you guys are implementing DX10 and so opening cans of worms anyway could you try and ask again to the team who could do this if they want to implement this option?

[luke69alpha]

good point!

I'd love to use my second monitor!

[ghodan]

I asked Tranj again but did not get respons.
Maybe they keep it as a major selling point for the expansion?

I dont mind paying for it :)

[ghodan]

Just played supreme commander with 2e monitor option.
Its everything i hoped it be and more.

You can track units and see them zoomed in. (Like cinematic view of CoH replay close by)

I really hope the CoH expansion will have this option.
CoH already has a great tactical view map... but who usses it if it means going of the main screen :|

[Sprinkles]

Just tryed dual moniters recently and would love to see this kind of support for it. Adds another use to the very few i have.

[ghodan]

So i see World in conflict is going to have a tactical map on 2nd monitor option.
Supreme commander already has it.

I hope Opposing fronts will have this feature.Seems like a new trend, as it should. Because all (Normal new video cards of the past 2 years) video cards have 2 outputs, lets put them to use.

[dusters16]

also like in SC, on my widescreen i can split it in half to get a virtual dual moniter. that wouldnt be to hard.

[IanArgent]

Holy thread necromancy!

[ghodan]

So i wonder if they opened the "can of worms" like tranj described it.
Implementing DX10 and making a stand-alone expansion is 100x more difficult then implementing the dual monitor support for the tactical map.

I have not seen any opposing front info on this being implemented in the expansion.
It would look good on the back of the box in the feature list.
I am almost sure they will implement it for OF but the silence around this feature being implemented or not leaves a little room for doub.

Last "official" respons from Tranj about it in my private msg box:
9th Aug 06, 1:41 AM
Tranj

Tranj's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2003

Re: Dual monitor support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodan
Hi Tranj,

So did u ask the graphics team about the 2e monitor option for a full screen tactical map?


http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=100955

----
Not gonna happen. It would open a couple cans of worms given how it interacts with the render targets, or some other such jargon I couldn't quite grasp. It's on the investigation list for the future though.
----

[fatnic388]

I'm no programmer, but surely just having the tactical map permanently displayed on a second monitor can't be that hard? Or maybe it is. Maybe why I'm not a programmer!

[Duck141]

This is a great game and it could be so much better. Tact map on a second mon would be great. Ive tried to use the mini map but it just doesnt work for me. This game would be all time great if tact map on second mon, slightly greater zoom out and a close button for the task bar and display movement from tac map like it works on mini map. Then u could dump the mini map and make task bar smaller.

Thats a game i would pay alot for

[Cobra5]

For all we know those lucky bastards in the OF Beta are playing on two damn monitors as we speak...


...But probably not.

It would be a cool feature, I don't have two monitors (And no-one I know does). I could get a second one... I have an old one lying around somewhere, and my video card supports it... but none of the games I have support it (I don't have supcom).

[ghodan]

So i have been playing the OF beta for a week now.
To my big suprise Relic did not listen to the community and did not give us a dual monitor option for a full screen tactical map on the 2nd monitor in Opposing Fronts.

I was so under the impression they were not putting it in a patch but rather hold it back to have as a good selling point for this stand alone expansion.

They integrated DX10 , and they where so afraid to open a can of worms.
Well integrating DX10 looks 10x more difficult and time consuming then implementing dual screen.

Well we cant understand everything company's do right?

I believe "mini maps" or "tactical maps" on 2nd screen will be standard for most new RTS games to come (except Starcraft 2).
Supreme commander has it.
Word in conflict has it.

It will be like iron cross aiming in FPS games. A few started to implement it.
Now a FPS game cant do without it (or it fails miserably)

[Bota99]

That's how I play Supcom. Would love to have that same option with CoH!! Pretty please Relic :)

[Fumarole]

I for one would love to see this implemented. All this will do is increase the user base for an already great game. I haven't yet seen any reasons for not at least attempting to include it.

Hey IanArgent, if you want to see real thread resurrection, check this out:

http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=105579&page=2&highlight=gaming+dead

Post 21 and on, specifically.

[raftermanfmj]

What about people who cannot find space for an extra monitor? Not all people live in 5000 square foot McMansions, you know?

I don't like new things or things that are different, and this seems to be both.

[Obtuse]

O.o If you really want to discuss the possibilities of dual-monitoring just make a new thread, don't dredge up a month old one that dredged up an even older thread, especially when there's absolutely nothing new to say about it.