Allied Long range arty?

[deadlybydesign]

what is the artillery that allies can hit with in the late game that can hit as far as your HQ? This needs to be fixed as I keep getting pounded by this unseen force.

Yes I know its up to me to go destroy it but it is more than hard if your enemy is well dug in.

[DoltIncognito]

http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/M2_105mm_Howitzer

^--- A good guide for the unit that I wrote on wiki. Worth checking out if you care.

[Phazon]

I have been the victim of a Howitzer strike. I find that if your enemy is unprepared, rush his base with the armoured cars and attack the howitzers from behind. You will kill the crew, stalling the howitzer threat. If you upgrade the cars with cannons, you can destroy the howitzer outright.

[deadlybydesign]

Am i correct in reading from the wiki article that the only map they can fire from base to base is semois? Also the fact that they can fire into the fog of war has to be looked at! I mean if you want to keep it semmi real there is no way an army would fire on a target blind.

What do the germans have to match this? Nbelwerfers?

[DoltIncognito]

Personally I think Nebs are crap because they do too little damage, and are *extremely* innacurate. Stukas have less range, less accuracy, and less damage than a howitzer. But they aren't too bad, nonetheless, and they have mobility which can be a powerful weapon.

Firing into fog of war is like firing onto map coordinates. Real-life artillery teams couldn't see what they were firing at... then aimed the gun to where the target was supposed to be, and fired.

[deadlybydesign]

yes agreed, however they howie team would have gotten the co ordinates from aerial or spotter recon no?

[CannibalKid]

Walking Stuka are very similar and don't require a specific Command tree. I'm unsure if they can fire into fog of war, but a cloaked, holding fire sniper is usable.

Just drop an offscreen attack on them.

[Mac_Bug]

if they are building howitzers, they arne't building much else...

[Firesparks]

Walking Stuka are very similar and don't require a specific Command tree. I'm unsure if they can fire into fog of war, but a cloaked, holding fire sniper is usable.

Just drop an offscreen attack on them.
stuka can fire into fog of war, command ability strike is the only long range that require line of sight

Even mortar can use the mortar barrage to fire into fog of war

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Howitzers are fragile, but are excellent targets for abilities or armor raids when found. And by the time someone can build a howitzers, you ought to be able to counter it.

[deadlybydesign]

I really need to practice more, i just got owned again by howies, mins into a game. I can really see this being a problem. Luckily I saved the replay so i can see how it is done. Does anyone think it might take the enjoyment outta the game if all some allies will do id just tech to howies all the time?

[Clonesa]

Howitzers are infantry doctrine only and thus can't be used "minutes into the game" as you need a lot of experience to get them. They are also very weak, completely immobile and very expensive. For all those weak points they are highly effective artillery. I've only seen howitzers cause trouble in the late game.

[TNT]

Howitzers cannot fire from base-to-base on any map in teh beta. If your base is being hit, it is from a forward howitzer. Go kill it.

[Starfisher]

They can on Semois. I can't fire base to HQ, but I can fire base to middle of base.

I can also just build them in the field about one foot to the left of my base and get even further into yours.

It's a problem, but I only ever end up having one howitzer in a close game, and it's usually shooting at stuff outside the other guys base.

Although I just had a hilarious game where the axis player built nothing but pioneers (how'd he get to rank lvl 3??), so I was able to dominate and build 8 howitzers. For the last thirty seconds of the game is base was constantly expoding. It was awesome.

[Burns]

Heh, do you have a replay??

[deadlybydesign]

meant to say 15 mins into game, num lock was not on! Still annoying once you are gettong pounded by them

[DoltIncognito]

105mm is a mid to late game strat. It isn't really that hard to get, it only requires 5 points. The size of semois is almost identical to 105mm range. From the front of your base you will be able to fire into the front of their base. A little outside of your base and you can hit their HQ.

Cost is high, but not to bad. Slightly cheaper fuel-wise than a Sherman, about the same MP cost. If all they do is spam 105mms, it means they will be short on tanks and vulnerable to an armored push.

[TNT]

They can on Semois. I can't fire base to HQ, but I can fire base to middle of base.

I can also just build them in the field about one foot to the left of my base and get even further into yours.

It's a problem, but I only ever end up having one howitzer in a close game, and it's usually shooting at stuff outside the other guys base.

Although I just had a hilarious game where the axis player built nothing but pioneers (how'd he get to rank lvl 3??), so I was able to dominate and build 8 howitzers. For the last thirty seconds of the game is base was constantly expoding. It was awesome.


I dont understand what you mean. I am saying they cannot fire HQ-to-HQ. Not HQ-to-center or anything like that... At least mine couldnt.

[naradaman]

Cost is high, but not to bad. Slightly cheaper fuel-wise than a Sherman, about the same MP cost. If all they do is spam 105mms, it means they will be short on tanks and vulnerable to an armored push. In 1v1 this is true. But a coordinated 2v2 or 3v3 Allied side can kind of work around this, combined arms is always better. Then again, any coordinated side versus and uncoordinated one usually does win regardless.

[deadlybydesign]

so basically what ye guys are saying is just learn to counter it quicklike? I still have a feeling of 'cheapness' when I get beat by it tbh. I mean its not as if the Germans have anything to match it with that is a s effective. Yes it is up to me to stop them getting that far tech wise but sometimes it is not always possible. At least lessen the range or power.

[macktheknifeau]

Many allied players have the same sense of cheapness when they get rolled by tigers and flakpanzers.

[DoltIncognito]

Many allied players have the same sense of cheapness when they get rolled by tigers and flakpanzers.Haha, qft. Course I'd add 3-star knights cross to that list ;p

tbh it's the only equalizer we get late-game. Axis can spam far superior units late-game that we can't match. This way we can at least slow that down a bit ;p

[Starfisher]

TNT: You said:
Howitzers cannot fire from base-to-base on any map in teh beta. If your base is being hit, it is from a forward howitzer. Go kill it.This is false. I can fire a howitzer from the corner of my base a decent depth into their base. My response simply pointed this out.

Howitzers are very, very dangerous things. I just played a game as Axis vs an Infantry player, and man, I had a hard time keeping everything together in order to beat him. If he had put out a single AT gun I probably would have lost. Instead he tried rifleman spam and so I was able to win.

This is going to be a very tough game once everyone gains enough experience.

[AntiCommie]

My only real problem with the Howitzers is the fact they render the Defense Tree unusable. Most maps you can play a 105 on either corner and blast most of the map. This means bunkers and stuff are useless, but worse is 88's are just big expensive targets. The 105's also shoot pretty quickly. I think they should lower the power on it against structures and 88's and give them a HE ability that costs resources that would do normal damage to buildings. This way the 105's can still take out buildings, but you'd need more salvos, or it would cost you munitions. This would leave them just as powerful against units.

Another alternitive, is allow 105s and 88s to "Dig in" for a cost. When they dig in all Arty units do halve damage to them, and infantry kill the crews slower, but the guns wont shoot, because the crews are in foxholes/trenches near the guns. The crew would be able to hold there own against equal # of infantry because they would be in good cover, at the cost of killing enemy tanks (Atleast for 88s). The stance would be toggable like snipers camo.

[TNT]

My only real problem with the Howitzers is the fact they render the Defense Tree unusable. Most maps you can play a 105 on either corner and blast most of the map. This means bunkers and stuff are useless, but worse is 88's are just big expensive targets. The 105's also shoot pretty quickly. I think they should lower the power on it against structures and 88's and give them a HE ability that costs resources that would do normal damage to buildings. This way the 105's can still take out buildings, but you'd need more salvos, or it would cost you munitions. This would leave them just as powerful against units.

Another alternitive, is allow 105s and 88s to "Dig in" for a cost. When they dig in all Arty units do halve damage to them, and infantry kill the crews slower, but the guns wont shoot, because the crews are in foxholes/trenches near the guns. The crew would be able to hold there own against equal # of infantry because they would be in good cover, at the cost of killing enemy tanks (Atleast for 88s). The stance would be toggable like snipers camo.
That is quite a good idea, but the game is gold. *tear*.

[Kobra2006]

You people seem to be forgetting that germans, with BASE units (NOT command trees) get:

Nebelwerfer Rockets
SturmWagon Rockets
Mortors

US Side gets: MORTORS..

Yeah, thats really balanced.. Unless the US goes the Howitzer Tree, they have almost no good indirect fire. The balance adjustment should be 105MM's should be a BASE unit, toned down a bit. Then add the PRIEST Self Propelled Howitzer to their BASE arsenal.

Then add the 240MM Howizters, limit 1 within main base radious to the command tree with Howitzers.

That would balance the game out tremendously against the vastly superior Nazi indirect fire.

[DoltIncognito]

^--- I like that idea.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Airborne have rapid response air strikes and supply drops and satchels; they dont need indirect fire.

Armor has, well, armor. They really don't need indirect fire to compete.

No balance suggestion that requires a new unit is ever going to be implemented, in any case.

[Clonesa]

Exactly, the game has already gone gold... you're going to have to be more realistic with your balance suggestions.

[DoltIncognito]

That is quite a good idea, but the game is gold. *tear*.


Exactly, the game has already gone gold... you're going to have to be more realistic with your balance suggestions. Ever hear of a patch? Although a new unit or units after it has gone gold is somewhat unlikely...

[aerziel]

hmm wouldnt it be better to give balance suggestions after everyone gets the supposed final build patch that relic gonna release soon

[Firesparks]

Airborne have rapid response air strikes and supply drops and satchels; they dont need indirect fire.

Armor has, well, armor. They really don't need indirect fire to compete.

No balance suggestion that requires a new unit is ever going to be implemented, in any case.
the same thing can be said of blitz tactics, they have tigers and storm trooper, two of the best unit. Maybe even THE two best direct combat unit.
or the terror unit with their firestorm, v1 rockets, or ace tiger.
even the 88 mm for the defense has enough range to act as a VERY weak arty unit.

Yet they still have the nebel and the stuka, and the axis mortar is more powerful (36) compared to the ally morat(20)

[Mirage Knight]

hmm wouldnt it be better to give balance suggestions after everyone gets the supposed final build patch that relic gonna release soon

Quite right! All we beta testers have gotten changes for pertains to multiplayer code and essential bug fixes. If you look at the changelists, there is little if any mention of anything pertaining to unit and ability tweaks, except where a blatant, game marring bug has been addressed.

[ÜberJumper]

Because I've already said it...



Besides, who really wants a huge amount of artillery in this game? It'd just become a glorified game of "tanks (http://www.flashplayer.com/games/tanks.html)" (If you know what i'm refering to, you know what I mean). As an ex-soldier, I know the importance of indirect fire to the military in a full on world war 2 type conflict, but that's definately not the focus of this game. I want to see the incredible units in action, not watch flaming gouts of earth while troops hide in bunkers.

[lordkosc]

I think the howlitzer is fine, if anything increase the charge time of the unit, and or the cost, as there is nothing worse than the allies having 3 of them aimed at your base going off every 45 seconds.

[Mac_Bug]

howitzers are easy to counter, 99% of the time when I have them out I have pratically NO DEFENSE except for hiding out of your direct line of sight. All you have to do is either use sturmtroopers or snipers to scout out and either arty me back or blitz in some tanks.