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Silverdeath
17th Aug 06, 2:28 PM
Perhaps I'm a lil dim witted but seeing as there are no official doctrine discussions going on I thought maybe we could butt out heads together and talk about you know, what to get, what to avoid all that stuff.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=123619

Has graciously posted up all the doctrines (pics included!) for both axis and allied, so I'm quoting what they wrote for quick player reference.

Allied Doctrines

Infantry Company

Reinforcements Tree

Rapid Response- Infantry and Heavy Weapons Teams deployment times are reduced.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability

-Certainly useful early game, especially if your planning on making early weapons support and getting the MG team


Rangers- Rangers lead the way! Deploy Rangers, heavy anti-tank infantry, to the battlefield.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
400 Manpower.

-Amazing infantry unit
-Bazookas gives rangers a strong anti tank ability (Although personally I find that against panthers and tigers they barely even scratch them unless from the rear, but this is where their special ability comes into play).
-They have an ability to move quickly in a short amount of time, this is useful because this allows rangers to outflank enemy positions and use their zookas or nades on exposed enemy positions
-Armed with thompsons and they shred other enemy infantry in CQB

Off-map Combat Group- Call off-map infantry and vehicle reinforcements to the battle.

Cost- 4 experience points.
edit: 800 Manpower.


Summons an off-map group of a mixture of light armor and infantry. Various reports indicate that you'll receive a few armored cars, infantry reinforcements, and occasionally an M10 Tank Destroyer.
-It's okay, 700 manpower is an easy price to pay for armour and infantry so I suppose it's economically viable
-Although as a final tier ability it is sorta... lacking?

you can get everything from 3 m10s + 1 rifleman to 1 greyhound + 4 MG squads.

Defensive

Defensive Operations- enables riflemen to build field defenses. Speeds up engineer construction of defenses.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability

-A pretty useful and often underused ability, riflemen are now basically well armed engineers
-Allows riflemen to fortify their positions where no engineers are at hand during the early game

Off-map Artillery- Call in artillery strike on designated target area.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
200 Munitions.

-Very useful against massed units, especially combined with a camo sniper
-At best, it'll obliterate your opponent's army or at least stall an enemy advance for reinforcements arrive

105mm Howitzer- enable engineers to deploy 105mm Howitzers to the battlefield.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
Made by engineers for edit: 450 Manpower & 75 Fuel

-On small maps it can shell enemy bases from your own base
-Deadly to massed enemy formations


Airborne Company

Air Drops

Paratroopers- Deploy paratroopers on revealed territory.

Cost- 2 Experience point.
375 Manpower.

-Good ability, has a wide variety of uses, from back capping enemy points, quick air reinforcements, and an effective attack force
-A few explosives can cause havoc on axis buildings
-Terrible reinforce cost, you might as well order another para squad


Paradrop AT Gun- Deploy paradropped 57mm anti-tank weapon and crew.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
(320 manpower, thx Firesparks)

-Drops with artillery and crew
-Haven't had much or any experience with it but, like the para trooper squad, it's a quick reinforcement drop to hostile battlefronts, good for supporting para drops (Against vehicles)
-And it's an anti tank weapon

Supply Drops- paradrop munitions, fuel supplies, and some heavy weapons to revealed territory.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
Free, one minute recharge.

-Well free supplies, a free mg and a free mortar as well.
-Helpful for reinforcing a point
-Like almost all allied end game points, it's rather lack lustre
-This late in the game, I question the usefulness of MGs and Mortars when the enemy could potentially have armour out
-But hey, it's free Edit: Gives 40 fuel and 100 munitions too

Air Support

Air Recon- Call in recon plane to scout targeted area of battlefield.
Cost- 1 Experience point.
50 Munitions.

-Cheap and useful for scouting, solid first or second pick

Strafing Run- Call in P47 Thunderbolt strafing run.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
150 Munitions

-Have never had much luck using it
-But I guess you'd use it against large clumps of infantry

Bomber run- Call in P47 Thunderbolt bombing run.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
250 munitions

-Fighter flies by in a line and drops a bunch of devestating bombs
-I once saw one wreak an entire column of axis tanks in one strafing run
-Very effective against axis tank whores

Armor Company

Armored Support

Raid- Light vehicles can now capture Territory Sectors.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
Passive ability

-Excellant early, mid and even sometimes late game harass

Calliope Rocket Launcher- Deploy an M4 Sherman outfitted with the Calliope T34 Rocket Launcher to the battlefield.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
600 Manpower.

-A regular sherman with a rack of death mounted on top
-A few of these together lauching rockets is the bane of everything that moves (tanks, infantry, buildings)
-Points well spent

M26 Pershing Tank- Deploy an M26 Pershing Heavy Tank to the battlefield.

Cost- 4 Experience points.
900 Manpower.

-Strongest allied tank
-Still cannot compete against German Tigers and Tiger Aces
-Use it as a meatshield so that your more vulnerable shermans and God forbid you made any, M10s can score critcal rear and side hits.

Logistics

Fast Deployment- Vehicle and tank production times decreased.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability.

-Faster build times are never wrong, but you should save this one for later when you'll have motor pool or tank depot where you'll really take advantage of this ability

Field Repairs- Vehicle crews repair battle damage while ability is active.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
200 Munitions.

-Useful only if you have alot of damaged vehicles after a major battle
-Often times however for me, a major battle leaves me with like 1 or 2 tanks if I have not been totally crushed

Allied War Machine- Tank losses are immediaetly replaced at the HQ while this ability is active.

Cost- 4 Experience points.
350 Munitions.

-Useful in those epic battles where german tigers and panzers decimate your sherman legion only to have to face a new wave again.







Axis Doctrines


Defensive Doctrine

Artillery Support

For the Fatherland! Zealous patriotism gives all friendly units in controlled territory a defensive bonus.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
75 Munitions

>A Decent ability, your troops fight better on friendly soil. Not much else to say really.

Fortify Perimeter - Upgrades all base buildings with defensive machineguns. Enables Reinforcement around bunkers.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
Passive ability.

>I feel that it’s a rather lackluster ability, certainly on victory point modes your new MG equipped buildings will see barely any combat at all and even on annihilation mode, your pretty much gonna be destroyed by vehicles, MGs don’t do squat against them

88mm Flak AT/AA - Enables pioneers to deploy the 88mm Flak AT/AA to the battlefield.

Cost- 2 experience points.
425 Manpower & 65 Fuel.

>Powerful artillery piece
>Can shoot down air units
>Long range and can easily take out unsuspecting allied armour
>Highlight of the Axis defensive doctrine imo, just always make sure it’s flanks aren’t exposed


Base Defensive

Advanced Warning - Increases the visual range of all captured points, revealing more of the surrounding Territory.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability.

>It gets a big meh factor for me, gives you several more seconds to prepare a counter attack but that’s basically it

Registered Artillery - Call in off-map defensive artillery bombardment on one of your threatened structures or secured points.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
125 Munitions.

>Once activated, arty shells land all around the building
>Useful to stall or demolish enemy units try to cap your points I sppose
>Draw back is that it’s purely a defensive tool

Rocket Artillery - Call in off-map barrage of devastating 280mm rockets to target area.

Cost- 4 Experience points.
250 Munitions.

>Complete mayhem and devestation at the ends of a rocket barrage, what’s more to say?
>Bare in mind that it’s not a “precision” weapon, more of a saturation/bombardment kinda one


Blitzkrieg Doctrine

Stormtrooper Support

Infantry Assault Team - Call off-map Stormtrooper Reinforcements to the battlefield. Ideal for general battlefield actions.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
400 Manpower.

>Calls in 1 Stormtrooper squad, 4 man
>Can toss nades, use rockets and MGs
>Ability to camo makes them imo the best axis infantry unit available

Urban Assault Team - Call off-map stormtroopers and artillery Stuh 42 reinforcements to the battlefield. Ideal for urban assault conditions.

Cost- 3 Experience points.

>Calls in 1 Stormtrooper squad and a Stuh 42 tank
>The tank is decent against light vehicles and infantry, just try to keep it away from the heavier armour and the stickies

Armor Assault Force - Call off-map Stormtrooper and Tiger Tank reinforcements to the battlefield. Ideal for major assault operations.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
1000 manpower

>The bane of all allied players, the deadly tiger tank
>It’s a rolling fortress with a powerful gun that can turn allied tanks into dust
>Very expensive, so don’t do anything stupid with it since it’s bound to get the most attention of anything you have on the field

Assault

Assault Grenadiers- Enables infantry squads to assault targets with grenades.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability.

>Ugh… I’m not exactly sure how it works…


Resource Blitz- Receive a large manpower bonus in exchange for freezing your economy for a short period of time.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
200 Munitions.

>When you need manpower in a jiffy (Like a tiger assault group)
>I’d gladly pay 200 muntions for enough manpower for a tiger tank + Stormtroopers, everytime

Blitzkrieg Assault!- Enables all vehicles and infantry to attack with overwhelming speed while this ability is active.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
150 Munitions.

>All your troops move at frightening speed, capable of outflanking or downright plowing right through enemy positions



Terror Doctrine

Hero Support

Zeal - Patriotism causes infantry squads to fight more fiercely as they take losses.

Cost- 1 Experience points.
Passive ability.

>Since axis infantry is usually inferior to allied infantry, it’s always good to see some sort of advantage, a decent point to spend on

Firestorm- Call off-map artillery bombardment to target an area. All enemy troops will be caught in a firestorm.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
200 Munitions.

>No infantry can survive a firestorm, although most vet players will know when to retreat from an area about to be firestormed.
>Weak vs medium and heavy allied tanks (Heh, “heavy” allied tanks)

Tiger Ace - Deploys a Veteran Tiger Tank to the battlefield.

Cost- 5 Experience points.
1000 Manpower.

>The most powerful tank in the game, I’ve seen direct anti tank shells barely scratch it’s ass paint
>However, never send in your tiger all alone without any other support unless in the direst of situations, a well skilled allied player will be able to outflank and severely disable this monster

Propaganda

Inspired Assault - Propaganda efforts inspire all troops to attack the enemy with renewed intensity with no regard for their personal safety while this ability is active.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
75 Munitions.

>Good early game ability where you have a lot of infantry (Volks, Grenadiers, etc)

Propaganda War - Superior propaganda efforts demoralize enemy troops, forcing a retreat to their HQ area.

Cost- 3 Experience points.
100 Munitions.

>Can turn a the tide of battle in an instant, very effective
>Use it to retreat infantry support from allied armour to leave them severely exposed, or use it to prevent infantry from capping victory points
>You can also try using it in conjunction with artillery and camoed snipers. Prop the infantry and then bombard their HQ to kingdom come

V1 Rocket - Call in the terrifying V1 Rocket down on the targeted area.

Cost- 4 Experience points.
350 Munitions.

>A straight forward ability
>Call down a rocket
>Watch things get blown the hell up
>There is nothing more terrifying than a V1 explosion…. Well maybe 3 V1 explosions, or 6 Tiger tanks, God forbid that ever happen.

ceejayoz
17th Aug 06, 2:48 PM
This could probably go on the Wiki.

Firesparks
17th Aug 06, 2:49 PM
-It's okay, 700 manpower is an easy price to pay for armour and infantry so I suppose it's economically viable
-Although as a final tier ability it is sorta... lacking?
the main problem is that it's pretty random at what you will get, and the unit are usually only useful at early stage of a game. sometime you hit the jackpot but sometime you get greyhounds and mg against tigers and panther.
would be more useful if the unit are consist and usefull (2-3 rifle with a sherman)


Paradrop AT Gun- Deploy paradropped 57mm anti-tank weapon and crew.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
325 Manpower.

Supply Drops- paradrop munitions, fuel supplies, and some heavy weapons to revealed territory.

Cost- 2 Experience points.
Free, one minute recharge.
-Like almost all allied end game points, it's rather lack lustre
-This late in the game, I question the usefulness of MGs and Mortars when the enemy could potentially have armour out

the 57mm cost 320 iirc, and the recharge for supply drop is three minute.
the most usefull part about the supply drop is those 100 munition/fuel and the free mortar for havoc. Unfortunately the mg is pretty useless by the time you get it and I would have prefer a bazooka instead.

TheDeadlyShoe
17th Aug 06, 3:51 PM
off map combat group is actually 800 IIRC. and you can get everything from 3 m10s + 1 rifleman to 1 greyhound + 4 MG squads.

TigerVX
17th Aug 06, 3:55 PM
Acutally I once got a M4 Sherman from Off map reinforcements, I had also upgraded to a 76mm gun so it proved to be very useful. However, that was my first game before other patches came out, and I can never get the Sherman again. So perhaps it was nerfed out.

Silverdeath
17th Aug 06, 4:43 PM
Made some edits, got my wisdom teeth pulled out today so I'm guessing I won't be able to put up my axis review in a while. In the meantime, feel free to discuss.

Shakermaker
17th Aug 06, 4:47 PM
Aren't the 105's in the infantry doctrine? I am pretty sure of that. I love those babies.

WildeCard
17th Aug 06, 5:01 PM
Yep, 105s are infantry doc. Amazingly powerful, too, if you manage to get eyes on the enemy base.

They are pretty pricey to buy (470+ mp and some fuel) but I think that's comparable in price to a single M4, but you can smash things from far away instead of (relatively) close. Along with the rest of the infantry doc, you should have plenty of tools to help protect them, too. Makes for a very hard doc to work against if you can set it up.

Shakermaker
17th Aug 06, 5:03 PM
Howitzers cost 450/75.

Silverdeath
17th Aug 06, 5:03 PM
they are in the infantry doc, but there are two trees in infantry; reinforcements and defensive. The howitzers are in defensive

Shakermaker
17th Aug 06, 5:04 PM
Ah, now I get it.

How's your mouth btw?

Silverdeath
17th Aug 06, 5:07 PM
Sore as hell, 4 teeth, 2 top ans 2 bottom torn from my gums and stiched back up. I am denied the pleasures of meat, forced to settle for liquid foods. And an ice pack on my cheeks to prevent swelling.

Well, it hurts now but it's better than having it push up and mess with your back teeth and cause tooth decay.

WildeCard
17th Aug 06, 5:12 PM
I completely forgot about trees.

I actually quite like the Airborne doc. A lot of people slate it because it loses its power late in the game, but I'd like to argue against that.

The reason being, since the troop drops are mp only, that can free up some fuel for M4s and other vehicles. The usefulness of this is more apparent in team VP games. You can drop AT guns down where needed, before your M4s or other anti-AT units can get in place.

While you don't recieve a powerful off-map arty attack (I don't think bombing/strafing is as good as howitzers) the entire doc helps you rush to take ground and then provide tools for you to hold it. Airborne troops can also reinforce anywhere, as long as you can afford it.

Essentially, I think this doc is very useful in team games, where a person's role would initially be to grab land, and then help support and reinforce his team mates.

naradaman
18th Aug 06, 12:35 AM
As soon as I read that I thought: wiki. I PMed the guy from gamereplays for permission.

On the topic: I posted some thoughts about integrating the CoH Manual and the CoH Strategy Database in the discussion on those two pages. I think it's silly having so many duplicate categories.

http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Talk:Company_of_Heroes_Strategy_Database

DatonKallandor
18th Aug 06, 4:21 AM
Airborne don't loose power in late game - their supply drop allows them to upgrade their tanks fully. And the off-map combat group is a great ability.


Daton

Frosty
18th Aug 06, 4:35 AM
I like the airborne doctrine especially for their paratroopers. While they don't excel in firepower or durability like elite axis infantry, they can destroy buildings amazingly fast and relatively early in the game by using satchel charges. I found those thingies to be much more effective than hand grenades or mortars at clearing occupied buildings from MG teams or snipers.

However, the drawback is that paratroopers are insanely expensive.

WildeCard
18th Aug 06, 6:17 AM
I wouldn't say they are insanely expensive, they are cheaper than Rangers and can be deployed and reinforced almost anywhere.

Their main drawback is that you have to pay a lot for a recoiless rifle, but to be honest, when coupled with supply drops you can get a lot of firepower down in one spot quickly.

I don't really like the off-map combat group as it is slightly random, you may recieve something you can't use.

Silverdeath
18th Aug 06, 7:10 PM
Added up axis doctrines

MrBigBoom
18th Aug 06, 7:39 PM
Nice.:beer:

Oryhara
18th Aug 06, 8:30 PM
The supply drop only gives you 40 fuel. So it should say:

-But hey, it's free Edit: Gives 40 fuel and 100 munitions

Silverdeath
18th Aug 06, 9:38 PM
thx

Firesparks
18th Aug 06, 10:44 PM
I wouldn't say they are insanely expensive, they are cheaper than Rangers and can be deployed and reinforced almost anywhere.

Their main drawback is that you have to pay a lot for a recoiless rifle, but to be honest, when coupled with supply drops you can get a lot of firepower down in one spot quickly.

I don't really like the off-map combat group as it is slightly random, you may recieve something you can't use.
paratrooper cost twice the mp to reinforce compared to rangers (62 vs 30), and the recoiless rifle used to be weaker in 1.16 as well.

true that paratrooper can reinforce anymore, but I usually have a pair of halftruck for transporting rangers :P
you still can't heal an injuried soldier anyway, and you would probably want to retain those 125 munition you spent on a paratrooper.

Frosty
19th Aug 06, 12:41 AM
Assault Grenadiers- Enables infantry squads to assault targets with grenades.

Cost- 1 Experience point.
Passive ability.

>Ugh… I’m not exactly sure how it works…


Just figured out how it works:

Volksgrenadiers start throwing (weak) hand grenades once they are close to their targets. Basically, you can compare it to the allies BAR upgrade. However, as i wrote above, the grenades aren't really powerful, so it hardly makes a difference in combat.

DatonKallandor
19th Aug 06, 4:19 AM
Assault is amazing against garrisoned squads. They either leave the building or get bombed to death.


Daton

WildeCard
19th Aug 06, 2:00 PM
I know they cost double, but considering paratrooper's abilities, I wouldn't think of them as 'expensive'. Hope that clears up what I meant. =D

Sure, you can get your rangers a pair of halftracks, but airborne will be all over the map and getting more resources in the mean time. I don't really think that's an exaggeration, either. (On the flip side, you can rush each individual airborne squad with a pair of halftracks and wipe them out, too. xD)

Demonic Spoon
19th Aug 06, 4:12 PM
Volksgrenadiers start throwing (weak) hand grenades once they are close to their targets. Basically, you can compare it to the allies BAR upgrade. However, as i wrote above, the grenades aren't really powerful, so it hardly makes a difference in combat.

Axis grenades are actually more powerful than their allied counterparts. The problem is that ya can't aim them directly.

However, Assault is still an amazing ability.


For the OP, this is how assault works:

It fires up your troops, so they move faster and are near impossible to suppress. When they get close, they drop down and start spamming grenades. The grenade spam costs nothing other than the initial 50 munitions for the ability, and continues until the target is dead.

theBlind
19th Aug 06, 4:14 PM
The assault ability is especially deadly with mp42 equipped volks, which are already very deadly at close range.

Demonic Spoon
19th Aug 06, 4:25 PM
Yeah. The greatest thing is they become practically immune to suppression :muffy:

DatonKallandor
19th Aug 06, 5:05 PM
Actually they don't throw indefinetly. They throw 2-3 waves of grenades, then close to short range and let loose.


Daton

TigerVX
19th Aug 06, 5:59 PM
Played a game Infantry today, Off Map Reinforcements got buffed. I called it in and got one mortar, one armoured car, and two M10s! Thats alot more then the usually mortar two machine gun and one M10.

Oryhara
19th Aug 06, 6:07 PM
Might just be luck. Pre patch, I managed to get 3 M10's.

HERO
19th Aug 06, 7:19 PM
I made a new Axis Doctrines guide today; check it out!

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=129922