1.18 - 88's destroyed in one hit

[Transmogrifier]

I was playing a match with the axis defensive doctrine and I noticed that my beloved 88's were being destroyed with a singe recoiless rifle shot from allied airborne troops. This seems a little unbalanced considering the expense involved in building an 88 and how hard it is to destroy the other AT guns in the game (57mm, pak 38). Was this intentional or is it a bug?

[soloxide]

I noticed this too, I hope to god that's a bug.

[Reverie]

Yeah got that too. Told myself it was just bad luck, but if they really are that weak then defence doctrine is crippled even further.

[phenoman]

omg, this must be a bug! noticed it too...

[ObservationPost]

Relic is trying to tell you not to play Defensive Doctrine :wtf: :wtf2:

[Boomstar]

As if it wasn't horrible enough already...

[Victrix Legio]

I've actually managed to use Defensive with decent success (I love registered artillery) but uh... yeah, the 88 is supposed to be the premier defensive emplacement, and not one that should explode at the drop of a hat.

[Firesparks]

i'm an ally play but 88 going one from one recoiless shot is just too much

[Emberstrife]

It's the same for all AT guns. Before, they were near impervious to frontal tank assault, now they can be destroyed along with their crew by one shell/missile hit(even from panzerfausts) :|

[phenoman]

is this intentend? that makes all at guns useless...:(

[re-con]

Not having played the game yet this my be a irrelevant question. However, would the positioning of the AT gun make any difference? Can you overwatch the defence of the AT guns by squad emplacements etc?

[ÜberJumper]

I observed my 88's being destroyed with one hit after firing one shot. Very discouraging. Didn't build them after that :-(

[SalvieSoldier]

The Defensive doctrine is just not good... They need some kind of OOMPH!

[Aegeri]

I've seen AT guns being tanken out from the front by a sherman as well [especially when upgraded]. Allied AT guns seem to be much harder to me than the axis one.

And yeah, the flak 88 is just useless. It has great range and power, but it's too expensive, is immobile, takes up 11 pop [!] in a game where pop is pretty limited and dies in one hit to stuff if shot [I'm glad it's not just me seeing this!].

Defensive doctrine isn't worth it.

[Da_Hamstah]

Jep, its useless...

It must be harder to kill the crew.

btw, isnt it a anti Air gun!? its much to slow against Airplaines. It hits them only whith luck, its useless to build them for the airdefence option.

[Aegeri]

Yeah, I was wondering if you needed to set the Flak 88 to attack aircraft or level the gun for anti-tank duty [which would also be historically appropriate ;)].

It's just not very good. The allied howitzer however on their defensive doctrine equivalent....

[Ax3]

I've seen AT guns being tanken out from the front by a sherman as well [especially when upgraded]. Allied AT guns seem to be much harder to me than the axis one.

And yeah, the flak 88 is just useless. It has great range and power, but it's too expensive, is immobile, takes up 11 pop [!] in a game where pop is pretty limited and dies in one hit to stuff if shot [I'm glad it's not just me seeing this!].

Defensive doctrine isn't worth it.
Agreed, seen the AT's taken by the Shermans in one shot. Its like WTH?

[phenoman]

a statement from relic would be nice...

[Inq]

Am I the only one who likes the 88mm? its simple really, just put a bunker to help defend, sandbag and voila. Barbed wire a little further than a recoiless's range would also pretty much make them useless.

[Mirage Knight]

The 88mm FlaK 36 was indeed a dual role gun: AT gun and AA artillery. However, in the AA role it was intended for use against high altitude targets.

What would be a cool addition for the Defensive Docrine would be to allow Pioneers to construct a 20mm Flakvierling 38.

[Hollowpoint]

I only noticed this when the AI i was playing against had one. I went to steal it and it wouldn't let me :( so i tryed to take it out with my sherman, and all the tank shells where doing was bouncing off it. That definately made me think it was invincible... then about 5 shots later it just blew up with 1 hit. This was done from the side/back off the flak 88 gun.

[ShortyMcNostri]

I haven't seen the 88 die so quickly yet, but if it does it's worrying. I have seen it die to a Sherman up close, but it had been hit by a few mortars before hand and the Sherman was practically parked right next to it.

The AT guns are worrisome though. A tank getting close just has to sit there and shoot away. In 2 shots, the gun will be gone, without inflicting any severe damage. It's annoying.

[jus7addwater]

hell if the 88 was a mobile unit instead of a wep platform it would be insane :Pint:

[Mirage Knight]

Count yourself lucky then that Relic didn't include an 88mm PaK 43/41, arguably one of the finest german AT guns produced during the war ;)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/PaK43-41_base_borden_military_museum_4.jpg/800px-PaK43-41_base_borden_military_museum_4.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PaK43-41_base_borden_military_museum_4.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PaK43-41_base_borden_military_museum_4.jpg

[Gethsemane]

Count yourself lucky then that Relic didn't include an 88mm PaK 43/41, arguably one of the finest german AT guns produced during the war ;)



Relic would only have them destroyed in two shots rather than one. :cranky:

[ÜberJumper]

The 88 used to be highly effective, I used it frequently and it was the cornerstone of any defensive position.

Now, it's a deathtrap.

Only way I can see it being more effective is if you give it a MONSTER range advantage and let it fire at anything that you can see, and there's nothing (like a hill or stand of trees) interrupting the line of fire.

[Mac_Bug]

I do notice that AT guns are a lot easier to destroy, prior to the patch I had tiger + 2 panzer face off a single AT and could not destroy it (it was in the left corner, couldnt flank it)

I manned uber's 88 last night briefly, it kicked sherman ass when nobody was firing at it, so my conclusion is you should support it with armor

[Silverdeath]

You shouldn't HAVE TO have armour support for a flak.

Actually, that's really counter productive, having armoured vehicles protect a weapon designed to destroy armoured vehicles.

Bad enough there is an unspoken taboo on Axis Defense doctrine, but it's also imo the weakest axis tree.

[Mirage Knight]

I can understand making AT guns a bit more vulnerable to return heavy fire, but being able to kill them in 1 shot while realistic is rather heavy handed here.

[Flawless]

Historically, AT guns were able to take out tanks in one or two shots. Yet in CoH, AT is fairly ineffective in this respect.

[Mirage Knight]

Depended on the gun and range and target, but generally that's correct. However, you have to make some concessions within an RTS setting. Where's the fun in taking 60 seconds to pump out a 500+ Manpower tank only to have your opponent reduce to scrap in one shot?

[ShortyMcNostri]

I don't know, I still use them a lot to lockdown areas. They work quite well if you place them properly. They're just plain old evil on St. Hilaire if you place them on the hill, or down chokepoint roads.
I think it's fine if a tank can blow them up in one shot from up close (it shouldn't get that close to begin with), but if they can be taken out with such ease at a distance there's a problem. I haven't experienced that at all so far though, and even when playing Allies I've found they can take a beating from afar.

[ÜberJumper]

At best, an 88 will only get off a couple shots if playing in a game against an Infantry player.

Arty absolutely LEVELS 88s.

[panzooka]

this also happened to me, but not tank shell.

i had a plane doing strafing run on my full health flak88,

then my flak88 just blow up, i mean cmon, aircraft bullets blowing up ANTI AIRCRAFT FLAK 88 cannon,

[fldash]

I have a question regarding 88's. Do they fire automatically at tanks and planes or is it a manual thing? I place them but never notice if they are doing anything. :)

[ÜberJumper]

Automatically.

[Gethsemane]

it was noticable last night how many people dont bother with a defensive doctrine now. Everyone had the same reason, ''whats the point when the flak cannon is only good for a paper weight''.

[fldash]

I went defensive doctrine twice last night and won both games without an issue.

[ÜberJumper]

As did I, but I didn't employ any flak cannons, AND I SO WANT TO.

[Mirage Knight]

Went Defensive last night twice - one game on Hillaire - and won both.

That game I had 2 88mm Flaks deployed back a bit, spead out a bit, and protected by MG's and sandbags with a sniper spotting. By the time the one allied player got Strafing run, both guns were protected by an Ostwind near each gun. Nothing could get near them - not even Airborne :D