[Suggestion] Focus Control: Tank Commander!

[adisca]

We all know how important tank movement can be in this game. It can decide the outcome of the entire battle. A good player must consider objects the tank must move around, the front and rear armor exposure, and on some of the larger tanks even the direction the turret is facing.

Sometimes tank movement can be unpredictable, however. Often it is a guessing game as to how your tank will move and engage the enemy. Players must use annoying tricks like constantly clicking just behind the tank to move it backwards, and even with careful attention the tank will often turn in a direction that puts it in jeopardy. Losing an expensive tank because the AI decided to move it in an illogical manner is one of the most frustrating events that can occur. I believe we can give players an option that will never allow them to blame their loss on pathfinding again.

What I am proposing is the ability to take direct control of one single tank on the battlefield with the press of a button. You could then drive this tank with the arrow keys and move the turret with the mouse. The turret would of course rotate at it's normal speed (very slowly if it's a Tiger tank), and you would click on enemies to attack them just like you normally would. This would allow players to position their armor in tactical positions while eliminating a lot of the frustration. You would be unable to give orders to any of your other units while controlling the tank, so players with a large or possibly infantry-oriented force will still maintain an advantage in combined maneuverability.

Armor pathfinding is something that, even if done perfectly, will never correctly react to every situation. This type of feature would allow a player to sacrifice micromanaging his other units in order to ensure that his armor units respond efficiently 100% of the time.

[TheLoneKnight]

I actually haven't had too many problems with tank movements. Sometimes they run off on their own or move unnecessarily in combat, but TBH a single "halt" button or new order generally solves that problem.

But I can't imagine Relic ever including an "FPS" styled mode for tank control. There just doesn't seem to be a point for it.

Sure, you could make sure that you hit 100% of the time, but what use would that really be when you're sacrificing your ability to keep an eye on the map/control the units/etc? It seems like it would be more of a detrimental gimmick than anything else.

[adisca]

I'm not saying FPS, I'm saying direct control. Your tank would not "hit 100% of the time." It would still fire and miss the way it is meant to. The only difference would be you could move it into position yourself and to avoid poor pathfinding, poor turrent or body movement, and poor firing positions (tanks shooting into things that block your line of fire is annoying). If you don't like the idea then you would not have to use the feature, but some people may be tired of tanks getting hit in the rear when there is no excuse.

Yes, I know the tricks to get your tank to move, but isn't this type of babysitting just a less effective way to do the same thing I am suggesting?

[TheLoneKnight]

From what I've seen in CoH, it always matters more about how you use your units than what units you've got. The "babysitting" thing simply ensures that players with large numbers of units can be defeated by an intelligent player with substantially less units because the player with more units can't micro as well.

To be honest I'm rather pleased about that particular feature. It's pulled my butt out of the fire numerous times.

[adisca]

From what I've seen in CoH, it always matters more about how you use your units than what units you've got.
This is exactly my point. Thank you.

[TheLoneKnight]

I know it is, but with all of the stuff already included for tank and infantry movements, the feature you're suggesting would add quite literally nothing other than a limiting and probably complicated-to-impliment method of removing your ability to control more than one unit.

I can't see a single reason why Relic would spend time and money patching this game to include a gimmick that really gives players no advantages at all that couldn't already be gained through mouse clicks.

[ceejayoz]

How would this be substantively different to giving a tank a directional movement order by right-click dragging? Doing so seems to work quite reliably.

[adisca]

How would this be substantively different to giving a tank a directional movement order by right-click dragging? Doing so seems to work quite reliably.
I don't feel this does work reliably. I've had tanks get "stuck" on physical objects and fire into the sides of hills and treelines hitting nothing. Currently, when a tank starts turning in the wrong direction it's a frantic clickfest to get it doing the right thing. If you think tank pathing is perfect, congratulations, but I don't feel this way.

This would be different because you would be able to control the tank's turning and direction yourself instead of leaving it up to the pathfinding to decide. Right-click dragging tells the tank to move to a location and face in a specific direction and it relies on pathfinding that can make costly mistakes, but this method would allow you to completely control how your tank moves from point A to point B, which direction the turret is facing, and your armor exposure.

[ceejayoz]

Meanwhile, he's capping all of your other points while you fuck around with the one tank. I imagine such an option would be utterly ignored in the vast majority of multiplayer games.

[Cias]

the only problem i have with tank pathfinding is when they get stuck on each other, and take like 5 mins to move out of each others way. happens alot with allied players tanks really annoying. but other then that i can back up tanks just fine

[TheLoneKnight]

The only real pathfinding problem I've ever had was when my Stug tried to force its way between two buildings - managing to destroy the sides of each as it took about a minute to push through. Man, that was a stupid tank. :lol:

[fldash]

I find the best way to give movement orders is by queuing them up. If I just click on the destination, you can bet the AI will take the worst route there. So I give it waypoints. ;)

[Valkeller]

I can't seem to understand your problem either. Because if you want your tank to go backwards from an encunter just hold down shift and give it multiple orders and move it far away or around a corner.
And to setup your tank in the direction you want is done quite easy as it is right now, just hold down the mousekey and point it to the direction you want.
Doing that in the way you are sugesting would take far to long and as said you would lose a game because of it.

[adisca]

Meanwhile, he's capping all of your other points while you fuck around with the one tank. I imagine such an option would be utterly ignored in the vast majority of multiplayer games.
You're misunderstanding. The intended use would be to fine-tune your tank movement in difficult situations, not drive around like a madman the entire game playing tank commando.

[ArTizan]

Dogs of War did this it was an awesome feature, you could drive any unit round on the map witht he cursor keys. I think movement would be interesting to see but not so sure about the turret thing.

[adisca]

I would agree that the turret is overkill, except that some tanks really do have slow turrets and would benefit from being able to control their direction. It would also be easy and intuitive to just let the turret follow your mouse around the screen.

[theBlind]

If something like that were done, I'd like it to be arrow keys control the tanks movement while the mouse is free to control other units as now.

Then we can get multitasking - direct control over a single (eg. the best) tank while giving orders to your other units...

[adisca]

I agree, that would be better.

[Ant991]

It's very unlikely that this would be added. Why? Because this would be a major feature addition to the game. Added in a mod? Maybe, although I suspect it may be unlikely that changes of this scale would be possible.

As people have said, if you're worried about pathing queue up waypoints- it's more time efficient than taking direct control of one unit at the cost of controlling everything else would be anyway.

[Kolath]

Or why not just improve the current tank movement system. The problem seems to be the difficulty in controlling when tanks go in reverse, so why not just make a button modifier for the reverse command so say you choose alt, alt plus mouseclick would force the tank to go in reverse to a destination.

[centrelink4]

Yeah an easy drive in reverse command would be good.

[ObservationPost]

the only problem i have with tank pathfinding is when they get stuck on each other, and take like 5 mins to move out of each others way. happens alot with allied players tanks really annoying. but other then that i can back up tanks just fine
I'll bet it happens twice as much with stugs. Fuck those things' pathfinding :(

I can say that if such an addition were made, I personally wouldn't use it. Like ceejay said, the right click + hold + drag works fine.

[Valkeller]

I still don't understand your problem with going in to reverse I never and I mean never had a problem with the tank turning around instead of going in to reverse. If it does your using/ordering your tank poorly, by holding down shift you could easily go in reverse around the entire map.

And I do understand that you just want to use it for fine tuning the placement of the tank but it would still take 1-2 sec longer then it does now and if you play this game hard you will need that 1-2 sec to do something else.

Moving a tank across the map with path finding isn't a problem for me either because if you want it to go to a distant place just give it way points on the way.