Allied Ranger Rush !!

[Arjun]

Hi Guys,

1st of all I would like to say hello to the community here as this is my 1st post . I would also like to thank Relic for making such a enjoyable game.

Now, I have played abt 30 games so far. I play mostly as axis.

As I have gone up through the levels I am starting to notice that the ranger rush (as I call it) is increasingly noticable. I see within 10-15 minutes of game start about 4-5 squads of rangers running around with the bazooka upgrade blowing anything they see to smithereens. I dont see how any Axis infantry can counter this tactic.

Especially when the axis player is trying to save resources to tech up so he can produce respectable armour. The only counter that the axis can produce at this stage of the game is halftrack flamethrower and those dont last very long.... the rangers blast any buildings u garrison MG's in . The flamethrower halftrack also dies instantly to their bazooka salvos and its worse still if the rangers have a AT backing them. Before u know it ur base has been rushed.. they run right past the MG Bunkers surrounding ur base... and BOOM! GG.

Please note that at this stage u r nowhere near to producing Ostwinds and dont have nearly much ammo to upgrade every halftrack u make to a flamethrower. This is a extremely annoying tactic am noticing.. and very difficult to counter for axis...

Please those of you who are experience or have perhaps faced this already ... care to make some comments and kindly correct me where I am wrong.

Alright .. I leave it to the Axis Generals on this forum to suggest a counter measure .

Thanks much in advance ,

Arjun

[Busby]

Pumas.

Seriously.

[UCBarkeeper]

stormtroopers?

and for rangers pums isnt the right thing, the right thing for inf are some ostwinds...

[Arjun]

5 squads of rangers make short work of a puma... very very short work ..

I tried it in a previous game. Its silly ..

[rocagil]

But, but, but, aren't you supposed to have like a lot of MG teams or something mowing down those rangers like grass?

[Arjun]

Like I said... I had 3 Mg teams.. in 2 in buildings and 1 under heavy cover... providing overlapping arcs of fire... the ones in the building died fast with couple bazooka salvos. I want to know if any1 has overcome such a scenario. I have had 2 out of 2 losses so far facing the ranger zerg rush

[FatalTheRabbit]

... You know some one is new when they complain about rangers.

How about an MG, or a couple tanks with pumas? If somebody masses rangers they're asking to get stomped.


5 squads of rangers make short work of a puma... very very short work ..

5 ranger squads is 2000 manpower, and a puma is 280+25 fuel. If you send a single puma at 5 ranger sqauds you deserve a most humiliating defeat.

[Arjun]

Perhaps You can tell me how you handle them in the same post where you call me a noob Fatal :p

I would be highly obliged...unless you were just working on your post count?

Like I said... dont have tanks yet. :( But I guess ill just try to build faster

[FatalTheRabbit]

I tried with an edit, but it was too late. If it's a 1on1 you just need tanks/pumas supported by mgs and some flamers maybe. If it's team game you just need tanks. If you don't have tanks you're too slow, and have been spending in the wrong places.

[DrunkenOne]

Rangers are arguably, for their cost, the worst unit in the game. Paratroopers are terrible too but at least they can be dropped anywhere.

[WildeCard]

I always thought rangers were pretty fragile. I've yet to see the Ranger rush for myself, and my usual suggestion would be MGs..

I'll wait till I encounter it before I say anything else. (Though, you know bazookas are pretty good against bunkered down units. Get in the open with some green cover. Just be careful as Fired Up counters suppression.)

[FatalTheRabbit]

I've seen ranger massess in some team games, but only hilarous dismemberment ensues.

[Hellraiser]

Hmm rangers...
Volks with mp40's and some veteran stug support are good against those. Flakpanzers if you can build them are also a good choice. The rangers will often concentrate on the stugs which are hard to take out with bazookas unless he tries the "fire up+get behind the stug" combo. Either way if the stug's re-adjust their positions to face the rangers it shouldn't be a problem. While he's concentrating on those stugs have your volks kill them. Rangers aren't exactly the best AI unit in the game(even with tommy guns). Look out for grenades though those can cost your soldiers an arm and a leg literary. If you try to use flakpanzers on the other hand don’t stand in one place, drive around this will make bazooka shots miss your flakpanzers while the high ROF of the ostwind will make mincemeat out of the rangers. Puma’s are a suicide against rangers, they have crap armor which means that even if you try to avoid enemy shots it will still get damaged badly if not completely destroyed by a shot or two sooner or later.

[DrunkenOne]

Its also pretty funny how terrible bazookas are against armor. I mean jeez i know that shreks/fausts > bazookas in real life but grenadier w/ shreks kill an AC in 2 volleys whereas rangers w/ bazookas take like 4

[Demon_Eyes]

5 ranger squads is 2000mp, 3 MG42 and a Puma is a little under 1000mp and a small bit of fuel, I would say that was simply a larger army? rangers are actually decent at taking down puma and MG42 between the fire-it-up ability and their durability/damage, sturmtruppen with MP44 or volksgrenadiers with MP40 supporting those MG42's/Puma's would have decimated the rangers, say 2 squads of sturmtruppen or 3 squads of volksgrenadiers would have put it around 1800-1900mp, 150-300mu and 30fp? Similar costs (though it is not stated if rangers had thompsons).

[WildeCard]

After thinking a little bit, Rangers have a small cooldown between deployments.. so, realistically the OP must've given too much time for the enemy to build up a) the resources needed to deploy Rangers en masse and b) the aforementioned Rangers.. en masse.

More aggression might help in future.. Making the enemy commit resources to engagements dictated (and hopefully won efficiently) by you will enable you to avoid the Ranger rush in future.

Though, after this, I don't think it deserves to be called a rush.

[Reverie]

mp40s are your best bet, once up close they eat all infantry, except bar rifles.

I wouldn't use vehicles against a unit designed to kill them but atm rangers sucked so pumas could do it too. flaks are teh :disgust:

[FatalTheRabbit]

Rangers don't kill vehicles well... I shouldn't need to point that out.

[Bentguru]

I cannot concieve of a ranger mass being anything but laughable.

I've had people attempt to spam them against me, they never got even close to 5 squads since they were all laughably shot, blown up, mortared, or sniped by various units.

[Penitent]

I think you guys are hating on rangers a bit much. They do a decent job of disposing of observation posts, infantry if you buy the upgrade and their fire up ability is good for getting places, they are a good all round unit and they have claimed quite a few tanks in my service, although not unassisted. They aren't a bad unit, the problem with them is they are counter-intuitive, their description calls them tank killers and they come with bazookas, they should be good at their job.

[Arjun]

Yeah I went over the replay... He used his resources very efficiently... while i was often in 2 minds about how to react to his tactics and therefore lost too much time. Also certain decisions by me were made in panic due to never having faced said situation before. I think it would be a tough fight but it wasnt impossible. I will take the blame and admit after watching the replay that I was unprepared. Thank you guys for your imput :)

[gunz767]

I only read the original post, but mp40 volksgrenadiers do the trick every time.Do that with the terror doctrine and its gg for all infantry.Zeal and inspired assault with volks mp40 upgrade kills ALL other infantry.Try it and rape some allies.

[TornadoADV]

Yeah, a single Elite Volk with a MP40 with Zeal is like a German Rambo! Heh. (Imangines Scene of Bandanna wearing volk with bulging muscles yell "I'M GONNA KILL ALL YOU YANKS!" with shell casings flying everywhere.)

[WildeCard]

With a stylised-Hollywood-German accent. Yes, I can already see it... someone, make a mod already!

[FalseMyrmidon]

Rangers are arguably, for their cost, the worst unit in the game. Paratroopers are terrible too but at least they can be dropped anywhere.
I see your rangers and raise you one Axis Officer unit.

[AntiCommie]

Volks with MP40s. 5 Ranger squads is 2000MP and 500Muns (If they get thompsons). 5 Volks are 1400 and 250 for MP40s (Needed). Use the extra money to tech and make sure you get close. You'll loose a squad or 2, but as they get weak try to retreat and heal. If your in T4, use the medipack, it can sometimes keep a squad alive long enough to get home.

[LedMirage]

Thanks for the good laughs guys, the "hilarious dismemberment" and the "German Rambos" were the best!

Now back to the original topic, I personally do not take a special ability path until I see what my opponents have, if I see rangers (meaning they took the infantry path), I love to counter it with Blitzkrieg because as someone already said Stormtroopers will make sushi out of those rangers, specially if you give them the elite veteran unit upgrades.

The special ability paths are like a game of rock-paper-scissor, specially in a 1 on 1 game, make sure you are dynamic in what you choose and don't be stubborn about beating every other specialty path with your personal favorite path.

"The Yankees will pay when we find them!" :flamer:

[Demon_Eyes]

Rangers are arguably, for their cost, the worst unit in the game. Paratroopers are terrible too but at least they can be dropped anywhere.
I can't agree there, nothing short of sturmtruppen with MP44 will beat them squad for squad in infantry fighting if they are upgraded with thompsons and they are very flexible troops out of the box. They are very useful but just not in a heavy AT function.

[WildeCard]

Depends on range, too, I think. They aren't so hot at range with Thompsons.

[Demon_Eyes]

Only takes a quick second to get in to range with FiU active.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

I find volks are an equal matchup for thompson rangers with MP40s. Rangers have a tendency to exit their cover owing to the futzy AT weapon AI.

[WildeCard]

Which lasts longer... Supression Fire or Fired Up?

[Albi]

Rangers are arguably, for their cost, the worst unit in the game. Paratroopers are terrible too but at least they can be dropped anywhere.
Try spending 400 MP on Storms and then needing to upgrade.

[FatalTheRabbit]

Umm, try spending 400 on rangers and upgrading... The only real seperation between them is that rangers come with bazookas, but bazookas suck.

[Bazzath]

i tried this tactic for myself, my teammate died and i had about 20000 manpower so i swarmed the AI with rangers
killed em soooooooo fast

[DrunkenOne]

Try spending 400 MP on Storms and then needing to upgrade.

Except that upgraded storms/grens dont suck. Shreks OWN vehicles and they slaughter infantry with the mg upgrade.

[WildeCard]

i tried this tactic for myself, my teammate died and i had about 20000 manpower so i swarmed the AI with rangers
killed em soooooooo fast
20,000 MP?

If you hoarded that much, you brought about your allies death. x)

[Bazzath]

nah halfway through the game he dropped

[babarian34]

Rangers suck. Period. If anything, they need to be made stronger, not weaker. What is their damn Bazokka all about? I didn't see a sinlge instance where Rangers were able to do shit against tanks, even when hitting them in the rear...

[TornadoADV]

Bazookas are meant against buildings, Airborne are the Tank Killers.

[babarian34]

Yet their tooltip descriptions says they are heavy tank killers...

[TornadoADV]

And?

[Stefan_D]

Do you listen to tooltips? =p

[UCBarkeeper]

2 ostwind at 820mp and 80 fuel would kill 5 ranger squads.

[babarian34]

I don't listen to tooltips, but given their description, this indicatates that relic had planned them as tank killers, as which they are totally useless.

[One]

snipers can take them out quickly , when they are attacking a mg nest just flank them with some guys and they wont have a chance... while the snipers are killing them the mg is firing at them making atleast one squad pinned and flanking with even simple grenadiers could take them out. and even if they would win they will have many kia.

[TornadoADV]

Why would a Allied play charge a lone Ranger Squad into that? You would think that after all those borked shots against tanks that you would go "That Tool-Tip is F'ed up!" like I did, they do just fine as Anti-Building, Anti-Infantry.

[FatalTheRabbit]

Tooltips imply designed roles. When a unit doesn't fullfill that described role properly, simply assuming it's an error in the tooltip rather than a failure of the unit is not sound logic(that's quite a fricking typo). The tooltip is better evidence of designed role than the performance of the unit.

That's pretty natural logic I believe, so I think for some one to seriously argue what you have there must be an agenda. What is it?

[TornadoADV]

So the fact that the Rangers are good against buildings should be complained about as well because it's not in the tool-tip? That's pretty false reasoning yourself. Just because a tool-tip embellishes a units actual ability doesn't mean that it can actually perform that. My Airborne tool-tip states nothing about Recoiless Rifles, so it is obviously a programming flaw to have those RRs there.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

2 ostwind at 820mp and 80 fuel would kill 5 ranger squads.

So use 4 rangers and one AT gun. In any case the problem there is ostwinds not rangers.

Rangers actually do work against tank attacks. Riflemen simply dont cut it against tank spam, sticky bomb costs will exaust your munitions quickly.

[Vicious_CB]

If you lose to ranger rush, you deserve to lose...