MODs please Read.

[Timeless]

I want to take this up in the moderator forums. I don't like being singled out like I was the problem in that thread when that guy was clearly off his rocker. I in no way flamed him, I told him it was uncalled for. Period. That is not moderating, that is stating an opinion as a law abiding forum member. Now, to ban me from a thread that I was being constructive in is a bit uncalled for. I've been a member of these boards for 4 years and haven't ever caused a problem so I think perhaps you're warning here is a bit out of line. Post this in your mod forums and see what the others think. I completely disagree.

A user posted this against another user:


I will dump a load on this game like I did on your fat girlfriend if there isn't a patch soon.

To which I responded with this:



DimMak, that shit was uncalled for. Period. You say you're a teacher, meaning to me that perhaps you're an adult. Try acting like one.

And I've been playing rts games for nearly 10 years and waiting this long for a patch is nothing new. On top of that, CoH is relatively bug free and fairly balanced, even if things do need to be ironed out.

And Soulblighter feels I deserve a warning but even more importantly bans me from the thread even though all of my posts have been friendly and constructive. This is not moderating, this is one Adult, responsible long term member saying something was uncalled for. It's really as simple as that. As I told Soul, it's sad that a long time member who resspects and obeys these forum rules would get treated in such a way for telling a poster his vile comments were out of line. They were out of line. Moderating would be telling the guy not to post again or some such stuff. But the way Soul makes it sound in that thread, makes it appear I was just as vile as the individual in question, which is simply not the case.

[Chris]

Possibly backseat modding and/or baiting.

[Soulblighter]

Timeless thank you for posting in forum issues. You have my responses via pm before you posted this. You are more then welcome to post the full dialogue between yourself and i, so members and staff alike can discuss the issue with everything on the table.

[edit]
After Timeless' last pm (that i just received) he made a point that was lost on me that it was not a matter of how the staff view what happen but how the rest of this forum views it.

Let me make it clear that he did backseat moderate and somewhat attack the user, however i did not explain that at all for the reason in terms of his banning in the thread.

The banning took place in public, therefore Timeless i apologize in public. Your post will remain deleted and your warning does stay. However my post in the thread in question will be edited and you are unbanned. Again i apologize and realize now how it came across to the others who do not see what the warning was for and would be curious why you were banned from the thread.

Thank you.

[Timeless]

Baiting? I come into that thread and this user is making vile comments like that to another user. I simply stated my opinion that it was uncalled for. Period. That in no way can be defined as moderating. If those of us that do take care how we act and follow the rules around here have to walk on such thin ice, well that's just plain ridiculous. I didn't flame the guy, nor try to provoke him, though I did call upon him to act like an adult. If this is going to warrant telling me not to post in a thread that I will most probably want to participate in the future, I'm sure it would be relatively easy to find many examples similar to this in several threads. Bottom line, I do my best to avoid breaking rules of this forum and as such have never been warned in 4 years of my membership. I respect the fact that Relic forums is heavily moderated as it keeps most of the trash out which drives many sites into the gutter - that's why I enjoy this site. But this offends me. And I feel that it was completely unwarranted.


Edit:

Bah, that looked :censored: me saying thank you at the end like you did, lol. Well, thanks for that at least. I appreciate it.

[ceejayoz]

If this is going to warrant telling me not to post in a thread...
However my post in the thread in question will be edited and you are unbanned. Surely, a reversal and apology from the moderator in question means something here?

A warning isn't a punishment. Getting one (minor) warning in four years isn't going to get you banned, or even extra staff attention. I believe you're overreacting to what is a very, very minor "please don't do that"-type notice.

[Fiirks]

Warnings arn't a big deal. They're more a gentle "hey don't do that ok?" type thing than a "you were very very bad sit in the corner".


Nice to see problems being resolved like this in FI though...

[Bonnet]

I am willing to bet that some of the moderators have recieved some form of a warning in there stay here (when they where not moderators).

[reki]

Surely, a reversal and apology from the moderator in question means something here?

I'm pretty sure that Timeless made his post before he had seen soul's apology.

[The Legacy]

Yeah, you really shouldn't fret. I mean, I almost got a warning (I ended up with an alert instead) for a simple signature violation. It's not the end of the world, and I doubt that anyone, even mods, would think of you very less unless you really did do something stupid. And I don't see you being that since you've been here for so long.

[Fiirks]

I have warnings.

Edit: Nevermind, they seem to have expired. But never mind that. In fact, that brings me to another point regarding warnings: they go away eventually.

[Timeless]

Cee, I edited my post to say thanks after he edited his post. So, why are you on me about that? Geez, relax fellas.

[Malik]

That's because this is a public forum and although we know it has been since resolved, some folks are responding in a way for others, such as myself, who haven't been here as long can see and learn from this experience you went through.

My two cents, even though I know everything has been resolved, that on the surface it does look like backseat moderating. But with further review, I agree that the warning should stand.

It is the mods job to prevent flamewars of any kind and although you did what in my opinion is right and just you would still be a catalyst for starting a flamewar if the person receiving your words didn't take to heart what you said.

[cfoley]

May I suggest that you use the report post feature? When telling others how to post becomes more than just friendly advice, you are back seat moderating (and possibly flaming too.)

[Timeless]

Like I should be worried about a so called flame war with a guy already flaming with such vile comments about dropping his "load" all over someone's fat girlfriend. Saying such comments are out of line is no more moderating than it is to say, "Hey, that's not cool at all." We do have that right here, to express those opinions. If someone here, anyone, would like to demonstrate exactly why that is moderating, I'll happily go find about 10 examples in these forums that amount to about the same thing - Hey, man, that's out of line! It's not out of line as in "You're breaking the forum rules, stop it!". It's out of line as in not called for, disgusting, rude, asinine. And we are allowed those opinions. No offense, but even warning me over that was wrong and upon further examination, I'm sure, unless we are just taking sides with a mod to take sides with a mod, this will be easy to see. I Know Soul has been around forever and that while he may be a fair mod, he made a mistake, imo, which is probably understandable in the light of responding to such a vile comment. But he rushed to judgement. Now, had I told the person in question to cut it out and not post again, that's a different story. But, as anyone can clearly see, that was not the case. It was out of line, him saying what he did, not because of these forums, but because it violates basic human deceny.

And telling someone that you assume they are an adult based on comments that they are a teacher, so please try to act like one is far from a flame. It's simple truth and a request for maturity.

[Tiresias]

The mods are trying to avoid the thread being derailed by a flamewar, regardless of whom iniated it/is more of a jerk. Use report post and that alerts authority. A warning is little more than a slapped wrist and has little effect unless you accumulate them.

[Malik]

Well then I'll break it down to you like this.

Who died and made YOU the post police? (I make this statement to prove a point and if your first reaction is to get heated, please skip down to where I quoted the second half of your response and put yourself in the shoes of the person you made the comment to.)

Like I said, what you did is cool with me, from my POV.

But sometimes you gotta look outside our point of view and start looking at the community at whole.

From my experience I have seen plenty of times where posters, whose motivations are right and proper inject themselves in situations where they do not have authority to speak.

Had you just stated:
DimMak, that shit was uncalled for. Period.

Then it would have been well and good and even if the person you addressed snapped back, you would have still expressed your opinion.

This in my opinion is what got you on the slippery slope of a warning.


You say you're a teacher, meaning to me that perhaps you're an adult. Try acting like one.


That statement alone put you on the same level as the guy who made the comment about the fat girlfriend.

I mean what does this statement accomplish besides, getting a flamewar primed and ready?

When you go into any estalishment and are told about an action that you are doing to be inappropriate, training and wisdom on those qualified to point out such actions dictate that you point out the situation to the person and to never take it to the next level.

As for other people statements being pointed out, we don't know what may have happened. Soul apologized and realized banning you from the thread was a little harsh, but I agree with him in regards to the warning.

You do not carry the badge of moderator, so your words become more inflammatory than helpful when you add on extra commentary. Even mods in this forum have to watch there words when it comes to warning people...unless you keep pressing and pissing them off.

[Timeless]

I'm not concerned with the warning at this point, more on the issue itself.

Um, no one died, at least not that I'm aware of.

However, we needn't be moderators to express our opinion that certain behavior is uncalled for, out of line, disgusting, etc. Again, if it weren't clear the first time, it's not the same as saying "You're breaking the forum rules, so stop right now!". It is, however, very similar to saying, "Hey man, that's not cool at all.". Oh, we have to be mods to express such feelings now? I don't think so.

And saying that asking someone to behave as the adult you assume they are is on the same level as someone telling someone they are going to cum, to jizz their load on someone's fat girlfriend is laughable at best. Think about it.

I'm addressing this because there can be a thing such as over moderation. Relic forums does well to keep the trash out and keep this a civilized place for all, but that doesn't mean the moderators aren't human and don't make mistakes. And I feel that this is one of those times. I've often admitted my mistakes, for all to see, just recently apologising to a forum member for acting like a child. It takes a big man to do that, to swallow one's pride. And for what I was blamed, I was not guilty of, even if one might argue that it was pointless, might have caused him to fire back, whatever. I was not warned for that. In fact, if that's the case, then any one of us can round up plenty of examples where people should be warned in the same manner. But that would be ridiculous.

And, Malik, I am more trying to converse with the mods than anything. You've made your opinion clear.

[Tiresias]

ffs you haven't addressed that you were derailing the thread. You were apologised too which is very rare. Lot's of people think these forums are overmoderated, and in this clase you were less at fault than some, but threads should be kept on topic, and not descend into flamewars. Use the report post button if you see something objectionable.

[Timeless]

I wasn't warned over derailing a thread. I was warned for moderating the thread. In addition, I added to that thread with my comments about the game being fairly well balanced and that waiting this long for a patch is common, keeping with the nature of that thread's subject. I simply made an assertation that his statement was out of line, as in that it was vile, disgusting. That is the issue, that what I did was clearly not moderating a thread - the issue isn't whether we can find other reasons to nit pick whatever may or may not have been done in that thread.

For clarification, are "Senior Members" moderators? Heck, given my tenure here, I think I should be a senior member, not to mention my long term OMO membership. How does one go about becoming one?

Anyway, I think I've made my point as clearly as I can. This is my last post on the subject.

[Homdax]

SM don't moderate.
If anything Senior members has to be even more careful, since they, somehow, represent the spirit of this community and have deserved a promotion for something well done. That does not give them, us, the right to walk around boasting our goodness or such. Rather the contrary.

I am still a bit stunned over seeing Soul apologize, but, we are only human...

As for the issue, if DimMak really is a teacher, I would not want my kids in his class. Ever.

[ceejayoz]

I wasn't warned over derailing a thread. I was warned for moderating the thread. Non-moderators moderating threads derail them. It's why we ask people not to do it, and it's why we have a report post feature to present an outlet for the urge to do so.

Senior members are, as HomeBoy says, not moderators, nor do they attain senior membership based on length of time here.

[Timeless]

Exactly, Cee, but what I did was in no way moderation. Again, it was akin to saying that his comment was disgusting. His comment was uncalled for and that's what I said. Show me anywhere in the rules that that can be clearly defined as moderation, expressing an opinion that a vile comment is in fact uncalled for.

Example:

A forum member freaks out and starts calling a female member a bitch, slut, whatever, as vulgar as all get out.

Another forum member says, "Hey, that's uncalled for, man.".

Omg, slap him on the wrist for moderating, for expressing an opinion. Moderation would be, instead:

Another forum member says, "Hey, that's against Relic Forum Rules. Don't post here again." Now, that, my friends is moderation.

Because if you want to get that nit picky technical, then examples as simple as "Use the report thread function if you see something objectionable" can be construed as moderating. While it clearly is not, neither is expressing an opinion that a completely offensive, putrid statement is "uncalled for".

But I can see I'm beating a dead horse and none of the mods are willing to actually see the logic of what I'm saying, so whatever, think as you like. I think deep down some of you know this wasn't moderating but feel it's imperitive not to back down from your position as to do so would be to admit a mod's judgement might have been wrong.

To Soul, again thanks for the public retraction and know that while it may seem that I'm trying to stir the pot here, I'm simply trying to make a point I felt was valid. I couldn't care less about some silly warning on my record. Peace.

[ÜberJumper]

I think Ceej is just clarifying. It's pretty clear that you weren't back seat moderating the thread.

And this is just a personal opinion and may not reflect the policies of these forums, but I don't see anything wrong with regular members expressing their opinion on another person's post as long as their post adheres to the forum rules.

[Moe]

I think deep down some of you know this wasn't moderating but feel it's imperitive not to back down from your position as to do so would be to admit a mod's judgement might have been wrong.

The fact that soul publicly apologized invalidates that statement somewhat, doesn't it? If you don't want to admit that you're wrong, then you most probably won't apologize either, no?

[Timeless]

Point taken, Moe.

And thanks for the comments, Uber.

Sorry to drag this out.