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View Full Version : [1.2 Balance] Early aggressive Allied player = win



Drakan
18th Oct 06, 10:17 PM
There's no shortage of topics covering the allied imba. but they usually focus on riflemen+Bar or the Caliope. I think that the more important issue has been a little overlooked and that is of the overall better attributes of early Allied units that allow any aggressive player to control most of the map early on (first 2-3 min).

Consider how each side "usually" starts out:
Allied players will build the barracks using one engineer and use the 2nd engineer to cap points or attack. Axis players usually comit their 2 early pioneers to build the Wehrmacht Quarters since it takes longer. Even this early on, the Allies start capturing points first.

Considering the engineers have more health than the pioneers, the allied player can move to attack right away. The Axis player has to stick his pioneers together to be able to fight the engineers off. This is a huge advantage for the Allied player as he can cover more territory by splitting his troops and can count on an almost certain victory if a lone pioneer squad is to be encountered.

Consider the first barracks troops now. Riflemen are more effective than Volks at medium to close range, which means the volks have to back up and keep a distance to survive. Again the Allies have the advantage.

The Axis players usually train an mg squad as their first unit but single MG's don't pose a big problem for experienced players.
If they're moved too far in enemy territory, they can be easly flanked.
If they're in a building, there's usually another building where an engineer squad can garrison to draw fire while a riflemen squad moves in for the kill.
And if they're left in defense, they can usually be ignored as they'll leave out more territory for the allied player anyway (although they can still be killed easly by drawing fire).
Mg crews take 10 seconds longer to train than riflemen or volks. In Angonville, this is very important as Riflemen can reach that house closest to the Axis base just as fast as the mg crew ...or almost.

Riflemen capture points faster than any of the early Axis units and can build OPs.

An early jeep can force pioneers into retreat while engineers can hold out much longer against a motorbike.

Jeeps can also be used to block the path of an mg crew from reaching an important building in time (Angonville).

I find that a lot of battles are decided in the first 2 min and playing aggressively as an Ally usually brings a win while playing defensively (especially by building the Support Center first) is an almost guaranteed loss. Problem is, the Axis only stand a decent chance of winning if the allied player isn't attacking or harrassing enough. And Axis have almost no possibility of attacking or harrassing early on.

Drakan
18th Oct 06, 10:59 PM
Mass Volks doesn't work as the allied player can get BAR's just as quick as you get mp44 and BAR's are more effective. Officer comes in way later, I'm talking about the first few minutes of the game anyway. :bump:

Timeless
18th Oct 06, 11:06 PM
lol, you missed his joke.

But seriously, the game's perfectly balanced because, after all, Axis get the Ostwind.

Bentguru
18th Oct 06, 11:12 PM
yes he definitely did.

Stefan_D
18th Oct 06, 11:14 PM
I fail to see your point. Riflemen are powerful, yes, but so are Volksgrenadiers. So what if Volks lose 50% of the time if you suicide them 1 v 1 against a riflemen squad? It's what tactics was created for. By the time they have bars, you should be well underway to tier 2 or 3.

Kyranzor
18th Oct 06, 11:17 PM
err.. what was the joke?

Drakan
18th Oct 06, 11:26 PM
I fail to see your point. Riflemen are powerful, yes, but so are Volksgrenadiers. So what if Volks lose 50% of the time if you suicide them 1 v 1 against a riflemen squad? It's what tactics was created for. By the time they have bars, you should be well underway to tier 2 or 3.

Forget tier 2 or 3, point is as an Axis player, you loose most of your territory right in the first 2-3 minutes of the game because the Allies can afford to rush but you can't.

Kyranzor
18th Oct 06, 11:38 PM
yeah dude you might not want to spread allies winning tactics around like that..... i saw a dude get axed by a mod lol for a super crazy tactic for the allies.. always for the allies? why no crazy glitch/hax winning strats for the germans!?!

evotech
19th Oct 06, 12:45 AM
i played against a guy who used HEAVY volk spam, that was funny as hell.

i didnt know allied player could win in 2minutes thou

Neilius
19th Oct 06, 1:52 AM
And Axis have almost no possibility of attacking or harrassing early on.

What absolute nonsense. the axis have the wermarct quarters which can produce mgs plus volks, bikes and snipers from the get go. thats alot of variety and offers plenty of aggressive/harrassing options. Simply becuase your mg didn't make it to a certain building in time doesn't signal the end of the game. Move your mg somewhere else, somewhere the enemy won't expect and constantly move it around to confuse them. Use bikes to harrass, spot enemy units early, and tip the balance of a enigneer pioneer fights in your favour.

You say that allied inf. is better than axis inf. but where is your evidence? where are the stats that axis players are getting beaten consistently by allied players? all you have is conjecture and theories. if what you say is true then you should point us toward all the statistics showing that axis are losing to the allies much more often, but they are not.
I believe the game is more balanced than many give it credit for. Players should try to be abit more creative before rushing to the forums to explain how such and such unit or strategy is imbalanced.

Fitz
19th Oct 06, 2:05 AM
Hi I've not had my coffee yet, so I may delete OT posts and exploit hints in a less than humorous manner ;)

Mutters
19th Oct 06, 2:10 AM
allied engineers have more health so use a bike.
use volks squads with MG cover behind and forget bldgs until your a few mins in its well known tactic and easily anticipated.
the map has huge fuel income compared to semios which is balanced towards axis.
the axis location is more readily defendable than allied which is very exposed.
i play allied and this map is the toughest to gain victory for me personally. very hard for me to control the fuel.
need i go on?

evotech
19th Oct 06, 2:47 AM
Semois is hard for allies i think