HW2 Models...

[JAL-18]

One of the things that fans have been crying out for in the years since HW and HW:C were released are actual models of them. And even before HW2 comes out some people are already anxiously awaiting to hear news about this subject.

Realisticly, we can never expect to have (good) plastic models of HW ships. HW/Cata are just not popular enough to warrent the expense. (It costs about 2 million USD to make the master mold for a single model...) Even SC, which sold millions, only ever released a Terran Marine and a Zerg Hydralisk. Resin is cheaper, but there are technical reasons why that too is out of the question.


I was doing a completely differant project when it hit me: what's the cheapest, most effective way to get HW ships? Well, the most costly part is obviously on the manufacturing of the models. But maybe Relic won't have to do the actual work themselves...

Paper models. All Relic/Sierra have to do is make the blueprints, give us assembly instructions, and the rest is in our hands. We're the ones that do the printing, cutting, pasting, swearing, ect for the model. It's really not that hard. Paper (or rather, card stock) models are nearly on par with plastic models, are cheaper, and with a little editing, can be made any size you want. For HW, it's even better. HW ships don't have lots of projections and little odd bits that all have to be painstakiningly made. The KISS theory that cranks outsuch realistic ship designs also helps in the transferring of the ships into models.

What if people want their own colors on the ships? Easy. A progrem is released that lets you use the template for X ship you want, and much like the color selection screen we have, change the colors on specified area's on the ship. Then, you save the new copy and print it out. (I'm thinking of a Ship viewer type of thing.) This allows people to have massive fleets of individual ships, not all uniform Hiigaran/Taiidan/Kadesh/Turanic/Bentusi/Beast/Vaygr marked ships.

What's even better, this way opens the way for a possible HW2 tabel-top game (similiar to BattleFleet: Gothic.) All at very little expense to Relic and Sierra.

For an example of what I mean, go to www.digitalnavy.com

What do you guys think?

[Enterprize]

Well I doubt that they'd give us instructions but we could probably figure it out with detailed blueprints and 360* screenies of the ships. Sounds like a really COOL idea but I doubt it would be done. :(

If I decided to do it I would of course post the instructions and all that stuff :)

[Dasvidoniya]

I think it would be interesting.....
A table top game would definatly catch both my eyes. Maybe relic could evn make it so that different rods/polls/stands for each ship were different lengths giving the game table top version a 3d enviornment effect. This may even revolutionize table top gameing...
my two and a half cents

:drive: (almost)

[NovaBurn]

...or not and they can actual make the 2 millon master mold. Hell if they made them I'd buy every single ship for HW, HW:C and HW2!!

I mean come on, PAPER?!? :yech:

[Pirate1Eye]

Hey! Paper models sound great to me!

I've just started scratch building a Turanic Missile Corvette. I've had to go through a lot of gyrations just to get good plans. (open .big file, find model file, extract it, convert it to RAW format, convert it to AutoCAD format, bring it up in Ray Dream Studio, clean up and fine tune almost every vertex. What a pain!!). If I could buy a paper model, It'd be so much easier to transfer it to plastic, add lights, and superdetailing.

Bring ‘em on!

[PhdGarfield]

the idea of paper models is cool and sounds fun, id like it.

but instead of making it out of paper i would just take the templant (or diagram of w/e they use for paper models) and copy it onto balsa wood (my personal favorite for modeling) and but it from there. it would be too hard. i did that with a globe theatre paper kit =P

[Watts]

If, as expected, HW2 delivers on the same level as the original, I’d buy models (paper sounds great, JAL), T-shirts, embroidered bath towels… whatever.

…middle ground…

If, for argument’s sake, HW2 proves to be a sin against the noble legacy of HW, I’d just as soon spend my money on a Jar-Jar action figure or an MJ Wizards jersey. That is to say, I would not buy those things.

Relic are the only ones who really know where on the quality spectrum HW2 is going to fall. If it’s everything we hope it is, please bring on the merchandising. The fans are poorer and happier, the guys at Relic are richer and happier – everyone’s happy.


Speaking of models, I hope Relic have plans to release a new, feature-packed unit viewer. It was a very cool idea the first time, next time it could be fleshed out into an instruction and reference tool for aspiring 3D modelers.

[CruiserCarrier]

Problem is, you need a mega franchise to be worth the risk of making the models. I can guess someone can custom make them, but'll be damn hard to. I think we all agree that we would like to see more HW products. Unfortunately, the HW universe isn't as hot as, say, X-Men or Spiderman or whatever.

[Arconin]

Good Marketing could solve that, I can see a HW based TV Show, or Anime or what have you, that would ramp up interest.

"Merchandising, Merchandising, Merchandising, Homeworld action figures, Homeworld the comic book, Home world toilet paper, Homeworld Lunchbox, Homeworld FLAMETHROWER!!! The kiddies will love that one."

[CruiserCarrier]

So in a sense, you are shoving merchandising and/or marketing of an "unpopular" franchise down the throats of people that have never heard of Homeworld... I don't think it'll work very well. The franchise needs to be launched with an excellent game and slowly expand from there.

[Arconin]

shoving nothing, market economy works, if people dont like it then they dont buy it, look at all the crap that is out there now that people buy up in masse just because of good marketing.

Mind you, if it was not for marketing nobody would hear of anything anyhow, thats the purpose of marketing, to get the word out.

The franchise was launched with an excellent game and is folowing up with an equally promising looking game, or are you of the opinion that HW sucked? Its the Story and the world that would carry it, not the gameplay.

Am I serious? not really, hence the Mel Brooks rip, would I like to see it happen, hell yeah, I think we all would.

[CruiserCarrier]

Agreed. And you are wondering if I dislike Homeworld? Hhhmm, what forums were I posting on again? Probably the Counterstrike forums. By bad. So that's what I've been doing wrong the post year or so.

As for the marketing gimmick, what would you feel if a company decided to heavily promote a "Super Slinky Banana-Man" franchise if they started it up?

On a more serious note, I personally would not spend any money on HW2 products unless they were movies or games or something. However, I would like to see the franchise thrive and grow. I want HW to be the next big thing.

Now, lemme try some marketing gimmicks myself.

HW1--"No hype, all game."
HW2--"Think different."

[GuaRRand]

I remember (here we go again) someone making a wooden 3D model of a...interceptor??..
Wasn't it Kitania or kal?...hmmm....

[evil penguin]

i know a friend whose dad makes molds...maybe i could get it a little cheaper if you know what i mean *wink**wink*

how about a model rocket? that would be a lot cheaper, since they are made of cardboard, and they would fly...lol

[ÜberJumper]

Guar:

I think Xypher's got a plastic Taiidan bomber... from one of those 3d printers... don't remember a wooden interceptor... or was there one that was entered in a starshipmodeller.com contest?

[Kirtar]

Give me 20 minutes, a piece of wood, a saw, a small variety of fileing tools, and some paint and i could make a ship model. I made something that sort of resembles a taiidani interceptor. It was a ship from by story (Star Frontier). Throw in $20 and I could make one for you...

[GuaRRand]

Originally posted by ÜberJumper
Guar:

I think Xypher's got a plastic Taiidan bomber... from one of those 3d printers... don't remember a wooden interceptor... or was there one that was entered in a starshipmodeller.com contest?

Hmm..could have been plastic....but i seem to recall a wooden one made by someone who had access to a nifty 3D woodcarving machine...

But i could be mistaken wood for platsic :) ... don't ask :coffee:

[Tangent]

Homeworld, the Lego model.

Someone built a Banana Mothership, or a reasonable copy of one. :D

[JAL-18]

(I don't think people are understanding me here...)

The entire point of these models is that they are free for download. The downlaod includes the color editing program, the pages that include the parts of the model, and assembly instructions. After you dl it, you edit the colors, save the pages, and print them (and the instructions) out. (on card stock: it's a very heavy, sturdy paper that is readily available. Think the stocff they print cards on.)

[Pirate1Eye]

Hey JAL-18

I know what you are talking about!

Many years ago I remember talking to someone who used AutoCAD ver12 at work. He said that if you create a 3D model in AutoCAD, it can be printed out on paper or cardstock, cut out, then assembled.

Anyone out there have AutoCAD? I’ve already exported most of the HW models into RAW format. I can easily convert them to AutoCAD format (.dxf).

[MissingSea]

It's a very interesting idea, and I could see it working.

On the whole franchising side of things, I think Hw could be one of those games that could just about make it. If they did try and franchise other merchandise other than the games, they should probably start with selling small novella's based in the HW universe, if they do well expand it into other areas.

I don't know how battletech started out (table top game I think ??) but if it did start out as a table top game, it's grown into a whole lot more.

[RaptorXENO]

Originally posted by JAL-18
(I don't think people are understanding me here...)

The entire point of these models is that they are free for download. The downlaod includes the color editing program, the pages that include the parts of the model, and assembly instructions. After you dl it, you edit the colors, save the pages, and print them (and the instructions) out. (on card stock: it's a very heavy, sturdy paper that is readily available. Think the stocff they print cards on.)

YES that way you don't have to buy them every single time if you wanted a small fleet of these things. If I had enough time and I was bored... I may just do that very thing.

[Koloth]

I wrote a program that could take Homeworld geometry and unfold it into something that could then be printed out and then folded. The reason I never released this program was because it most of the time flat out failed on the majority of models, however, I have been sucessful at unfolding the swarmer and the Kushan scout. In the following link is an image of the unfolded and then refolded swarmer. If I had some convenient web space I would upload the images that you print to make one of these.

http://members16.clubphoto.com/a708464/1301432/owner-0919.phtml

[Montial]

seems to me, koloth, that that is exactly what is needed. Perhaps if you could find a way to seperate the models into sections (assuming that the problem lies in some models having overlapping planes..), to be printed out seperately...

[F'Lar]

holy crap. that swarmer kicks so much ass. i want one, and i would be willing to pay for it. dude, can you see if arioch would host that so we can print and make our own cause i want a claw of 5 hanging from my ceiling

[Montial]

ill second that

[Amglco]

First time poster in these forums. (Heck, I just registered 2 seconds ago)
This sounds awsome! I saw Koloth's model, and ever since then i've been trying to do the same with an advanced swarmer, but no luck... could you share that program you used to lay them out, or possibly hint as to how it does it? (I'm not a programmer or that good of a modeler, but I can do a few things with 3d editing programs)

[MaxxQ]

This is the sort of thing I was thinking about when I mentioned in the ship scale thread about building models of the HW and HW2 ships. I think Montial is onto what the problem is with that program. The 3D models would have to be split up into several sections, THEN unfolded to be printed as cutouts. 3D modelers usually "build" their model in sections, then join, weld, or group them together to make the final ship - you would need to figure out how to reverse that. At that point, you could probably use the UVW mapping part of a 3D program to "unwrap" the polygon mesh, and it should give you something that could be worked with - adding glue tabs and that sort of thing.

I'm not really sure if it's as easy as it sounds, though...I'm just now starting to play around with a 3D program (gMax - still working on the tutorials), so I don't really know a lot about that sort of thing.

Pirate, I have AutoCAD14, but I don't know if it has that feature. I've never really gotten the hang of using it. I usually use CorelDraw for any sort of blueprinting and such. However, if you want to email me one of those ships in .dxf (maybe the harvester, since it seems fairly simple - basic shape is a hexagonal cylinder with a few bits and bobs sticking out of it), I can reinstall ACad and give it a try and see what happens. No promises though.

BTW Koloth...that's a sweet looking model there, but it looks like you just printed the textures more or less straight from the game model - they seem very jaggy, compared to the lack of jaggies on your hand. Any way to clean up and define the markings and such better?

[Koloth]

It's good to see that people are enthusiastic. I wasn't expecting this good of responce. As I said, the program barely works well enough to do the process on a few of the models. I am not a very good programmer and I used this as an exercise to help me learn java. The reason il looks just like the ingame model is because to create it I took the ingame model with texture information, converted it through 3d exploration to an OBJ file, and then ran it through my program. Since the program is in java, you woud need the java runtimes inorder to run it, and it is not very user friendly at this point (command line). If space were made available, I would gladly post the program and all of it's good output so far. I have had fun making some of these. On average, I'd say it take between 1-2 hours to make the model once everything is printed out; it's a good thing to do infront of the TV. If anyone wants the files for the swarmer, I can e-mail you the files along with instructions.

[F'Lar]

can you email them to me. i'll pm you

[JAL-18]

Me too.

[Mnementh]

I can host the files, rather than have you transfer to the peeps individually if you like.

[Koloth]

That would be awsome, could you PM me with the info I need to get those to you?

Just so the rest of you know, I am going to wait for him to get me that info instead of e-mailing it to each of you.

Actually, I will send both of you the image file for the swarmer since it is small, but I will wait to get the actual program out. It needs some fixing.

[Amglco]

While waiting for the information on Koloth's wonderful program, I thought I might take a look around and see what other programs might exist. After sifting through the general crap that permeates the internet I found a thread in some other forum that discussed programs that could unfold a 3d model. I found only one program thus far that does this, it's called TouchCAD. Unfortunatly, it was developed for the mac originally, and although it is for windows also, its not very intuitive of the windows user. You can try the demo at www.touchcad.com
I myself found it difficult, even a little buggy, and have yet to successfully unfold a homeworld model with it.

[trebmal_ca]

I posted these a few months ago in the gallery forum. I made it in AutoCad 2002. Alot of it was guess work, as only 2 views of the ship were posted at the time.
Iv also made blueprints for a guy who has made a junkyard dawg, I will see if I can find the link.

http://www.geocities.com/trebmal_ca/hw2ass-top.txt

http://www.geocities.com/trebmal_ca/hw2ass-side.txt

http://www.geocities.com/trebmal_ca/hw2ass.txt

[Amglco]

Forget TouchCAD... I found something more devoted to just the unfolding process... Try this site out.
http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/jun_m/tenkai/index-eng.html

http://www.e-cardmodel.com/pepakura/ (if you can read... uhh... whatever language that is)

http://www.flatpackheads.co.uk/FPHfaqs.html (just a little something to play with I guess)

[evil penguin]

(attempting to find correct syllable to express desire for swarmer thingie)mm....mer...merpglooow...give me one!!!!

[Dan]

oh man that flack/assult frigate would totaly decorate my room!

Just thinking about having the entire Higarian fleet hanging from the seeling gives me the monkeychills!

:mdance: hohooo!

[CQD]

Originally posted by Amglco
Forget TouchCAD... I found something more devoted to just the unfolding process... Try this site out.
http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/jun_m/tenkai/index-eng.html

http://www.e-cardmodel.com/pepakura/ (if you can read... uhh... whatever language that is)

http://www.flatpackheads.co.uk/FPHfaqs.html (just a little something to play with I guess)
http://www.e-cardmodel.com/pepakura/
Japanese...

I only tried Tenkai, it is amazing.

Step 1: Used 3D explorer to export ship peo as 3ds.
Step 2: Run Tenkai and open the 3ds
Step 3: Press Start.
Step 4: Print it....and done

But there is a problem, I cant make it read texture file correctly :(

[Amglco]

Export as and .obj file... textures work on it, but you can only have 1 texture file (also make sure its bitmap) at a time. So even though you get textures, its gonna take a little work to put the one or two others that arn't part of the big page together and then I guess your gonna have to redo the texture mapping.

[W0ps]

w00t this is cool!
I wanted this program all my life!
(I'm a modeler)
w00h00
2bad the demo can't do more than 20 faces... :( get the real thing must get the real thing w00t..! :)

[evil penguin]

ahh how do i do this? i cant read japanese!! ok i installed what i think (and what looks like) the program, and i rename p2swarmer.shp as p2swarmer.obj and open it with the progam and it comes up with an (unreadable) error message! please help me! i am sooo close!!!
edit: w00t!!! w00t!!! must.. make stupid japanese thingie work...w00t!!!!!

[Amglco]

Calm down evil, its easy, first go to http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/jun_m/tenkai/index-eng.html

Download the program, register if you wish but you don't have to. (it costs money)

No installation is required, just unzip the contents into a folder, maybe named Tenkai?

Now you should have 2 other programs that are very important, the .big file viewer and 3d exploration. (I forget where to find them so look at homeworld editing sites)

Now instead of extracting the .shp file from the .big file, you should be looking for the .peo and its textures are .lif, there are several level of details (LOD), lod0 is the highest detailed.

Now with those 2 file types, you use 3d exploration to open the .peo and then save it as an .obj, and the .lif's as bitmaps (now unfortunatly, tenkai only uses one bitmap at a time, so you might have to do some texture remapping in another program)

Now you simply run tenkai, open the .obj file, use file menu to add the bitmap texture, maybe edit where it will cut or connect a little, and then hit start.

I strongly suggest you read some of the tutorials and help info on the site (don't worry, its in english and is not long at all)

There, hopefully your not confused anymore :nod:

[evil penguin]

thanx man
edit:
[QUOTE] Thank you for requesting trial software. You will receive an email with download instructions within 24-hours. [ /QUOTE]
NOOO! lol

[Amglco]

Just for the heck of it, here are the 2 mines.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/189983/r1mine05.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/189983/r2mine05.gif

[F'Lar]

hey. can you post the swarmers like that, already done cause i want the ship models but i am not good at all that computer language stuff. so for those of us that dont know everything, could you post some of the models like the mines

[Lathian]

yeah that would be cool

[Amglco]

Here, I've kinda done the research vessel. Its not perfect, and has no instructions, but I think you can figure it out.

http://www.geocities.com/wabu19/r1researchship01.gif

By the way, my file names have the 05 or 01 at the end because that is the scale that they are saved as(05 = .5 or 50% and 01 = .1 or 10%) Course this is the scale as the program Tenkai sees it.

If anyone could take a picture of the finished model of this research vessel, or at least tell me how impossible it is, it would be well appreciated. (but give some idea as to how I can improve it)

Edit: Use copy/paste with the url, it's my first time doing anything with webpages so please forgive.

[W0ps]

heck that texture editing is annoying... And I'll need the full version... somebody made a finished model already? (photo!?)
and they're way too complicated to fold... :(
luckily I can now make my own models in 3d :)

[Dan]

I might try it later today Amglco.... i'll tell you how it goes

[W0ps]

I don't get it... 3dsmax understand the uv, if I paste the map on it I see it, and then tenkai doesn't :( I just get a grey color...
and anybody knows how to set the team color?

[Tbird]

i can live with a grey heavy cruiser :D

[W0ps]

it would ruin all the work relic has made into it... really, without the textures the models aren't that heavy...

[Tbird]

oops ..misread your post there, though you meant the basic grey textured models (as they appear in 3D Exploration, ie no-team color, but with texture) a flat out grey model would indeed be less heavy :(

[trebmal_ca]

oh heres the link to the junkyard dawg model. The guy makes the template out of foam.

dawg model (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1783699&uid=963660)

[F'Lar]

cool, that kicks a$$. anywho, can someone get to posting the unfolded models somewhere. maybe arioch can make a new section on the shipyards for models

[Montial]

C'mon, someone has to have some extra webspace...

(Not me by the way)

[Montial]

Amglco seems to have the right idea. Seperating the model into sections, instead of one big piece. I dunno how the swarmer was done though, so...

[evil penguin]

ok i have the swarmers (both of them) some of the textures are missing (if anyone can find them, pm me) and am in the process of making a site to post them at...

[evil penguin]

ahh i g2g... ill be back to finish it tomorrow

[F'Lar]

cmon penguin, we want models

[F'Lar]

so yeah, where are those models?




sorry to be so inscistent but im home sick with nothing to do

[Lathian]

were are the models

[evil penguin]

ok ok im home now... jeez i had school...
wait up
(me rushes to make web page before someone kills me):hide:

[PhdGarfield]

takes out AWP and aims steadily...

[evil penguin]

ooh no you dont. death = no models, buddy

[evil penguin]

ok here it is, but only the swarmer is working yet:
http://www.angelfire.com/retro2/chono1250

[evil penguin]

oh, wait up...(damn you, html..)

[F'Lar]

um, it dont work

[evil penguin]

i realise that

sorry, moderators. less spam now.

edit:working now
edit:all working now
no need to thank me...or worship me as you overlord...just tell me how hard it is to make it
also:kushan scout later
edit:scout working..next turanic interceptor
edit:interceptor up...im a machine...
i tried the heavy cruiser...most all of the textures were missing

[F'Lar]

wow, that kicks ass. now i just need to figure how to fold it


oh, and can you work on a tai HC cause that is my favorite ship in the game

[Montial]

well done evil penguin. Just a note tho, is that texture squasing on the swarmer model? I dunno, i havent made it yet

and the turanic interceptor seems to be missing engine bays?
Maybe i should make it before i criticise

[evil penguin]

as i said, i cant find all of the textures
ill try the tia hc in a min.
edit: tia hc missing about 90% of textures. sorry.

[F'Lar]

thanks

[JAL-18]

Some other requests:

Kushan-

Ion Frig
Interceptor
Cloak Fighter
Heavy Corvette

Taiidan-

Destroyer
Assualt Frigate

Kadesh-

Multi-beam Frigate



TIA

[evil penguin]

ok ill try, but i have homework to do...
edit:success with the ion frig... but this is the last one ill do today

[F'Lar]

we understand, but your really good at it

[evil penguin]

thanks. ion friagte up.

[evil penguin]

ok i had a little bit of extra time and i did the cloaked fighter and it turned out great. will post soon.
edit:done

[F'Lar]

oooooooooo, i just thought of something great......it will be really hard but what about whats on your avatar?

[evil penguin]

youd have to be pretty good to fold that lol
not a bad idea, tho

[Magus]

Could you also put on the site pictures of them completely folded?

[Lathian]

Those fold outs are great!
I have two requests to make:
Kushan Carrier
Kussan Destroyer
Kushan BOmber

ops! thats three. O well

[F'Lar]

oh wow. i looked at the cloaked fighter and i dont even know where to begin

[evil penguin]

i tried it and the textures came in 4 parts...tenkai dosnt recognise that. ill try to do somthing, but its too bad if it dosnt work. i had every texture for it.
i mean the tradeship.

[F'Lar]

ok thats cool

[evil penguin]

hmm. i dont think anything with turrets works... thats probably whats going wrong
will try kushan bomber
no as much homework as i thought lol

[F'Lar]

ok, well i can use the unit viewer for the HC. and your site is shut down cause of excessive use of bandwidth........damn internet

[evil penguin]

attack bomber=awesome

[Lathian]

Yeah the web is down because of too much bandwith.

Free webs suck, I know I have one

[F'Lar]

mer

[Magus]

penguin, when you plug a turreted ship into the program, are the turrets deleted, strangely attached somehow, seperate but on the program, or cause it to horribly screw up? Also, how are you going to fold the little comm/sensor pylons on the kushan cap ships?

[F'Lar]

you fold them very carefully

[Lathian]

do you guys use normal paper or card paper?

[JAL-18]

I use normal for the "test" version, and card for the final version.

[F'Lar]

card paper, its more rigid

[evil penguin]

mangus: the textures for the turrets are in seperate files so i cant use tenkai

[Lathian]

Thanks for the response

I thinck this is the fastest rising number of posts forum in seven days up to over 100 posts and rising

[evil penguin]

well i think ill print some off now..
over a hundred? since when?
sweeet...

[Lathian]

almost 100

[BenJAMin]

Just to be 100, great job!!!!!!!

[evil penguin]

ok i g2g now... ill be back tomorrow
edit:dah! beat me to it, ben
edit:yes! no longer red!

[F'Lar]

huh?

[BenJAMin]

Originally posted by evil penguin
ok i g2g now... ill be back tomorrow
edit:dah! beat me to it, ben
edit:yes! no longer red!

LOL! :lol: Sorry. Shall I delete my post to give you the honor? You certainly deserve it!

These are going to be a PAIN to put together! :) Anybody got one yet? There should be a prize for the first person to post a photo of a model.

[W0ps]

if tenkai at my computer would accept textures (wich it for some reason doesn't) I'd apply the following trick: Open the model with different textures applied to it in 3dsmax
render to texture
use that bitmap in tenkai

but, alas, somehow tenkai doesn't do textures, it makes everything plain gray. (anyone know how to counter that?)

[F'Lar]

yay

[Ammon Ra]

The Angelfire site you are trying to reach has been temporarily suspended due to excessive bandwidth consumption.

The site will be available again in approximately 2 hours!

Are you the owner of this site?


:rofl: :D

hehe..think that that is the first time evil penguin....right???

EDIT: can anyone mirror the gif files please??? some1 without a bandwidth limit???? ;) :jk:

[F'Lar]

someone plz mirror the pics, maybe arioch?

[Arioch]

This is pretty cool stuff.

If you guys need me to host some of it, send the files to me, and I'll set up a temporary directory for them.

[F'Lar]

thanks arioch that would kick ass

[Amglco]

Hey W0ps, the reason you see gray is that most likely your using .3ds files. Textures show up on .obj files when using tenkai. You would know that if you had read a few of my past posts explaining it to you all.

And on a different note, evil penguin, I finally got to see your work after a couple of hours waiting, perhaps anglefire was not the best choice? But aside from the host, you've been working hard I see, but your models look very difficult to put together, some have missing textures and simply repeat other areas. Some even have all the lines from Tenkai still in there. I don't want to discourage or insult, but those could use a little work... I myself havn't released more than just the mines and research ship because they happened to have all the textures in one file. Maybe if W0ps can prove his theory for rendering in max, we can all finish the models pretty quickly.:beer:

[Harpanet]

Cool models!

it might work better to run that utility on the LOD 1 model instead of LOD 0, that way the paper models are so complicated.

then again, it might make them look like cr@p, and we don't want that either.

can someone who has the files handy take a look and see how much detail is lost if use one of the lower poly versions of the ships?

and I'll second a request for the Taiidan HC, lack of textures and all :)

[evil penguin]

ok im home now...sorry i had to see the matrix. best...movie...ever. i will get down to buisness now.
edit:sorry amglco. i am taking a lot of credit here. you are the one who taught me how to do this...im just the one who did it first.

[Amglco]

I'm not looking for credit :P, I was just explaining something W0ps, and trying to get you to do better models, no offence ment towards what you have already, but they do need some work :)

[evil penguin]

yes i am aware of this.. i heard what w0ps said and i am getting a 3dsmax demo cd in the mail (lol) in the meantime, the heavy cruiser is up... looks pretty bad tho

there is no spoon

[F'Lar]

wow.....looks interesting, thanks dude

[Amglco]

You know, I think gmax is pretty much the same as 3dsmax, just without all the bells and whistles, but still does the same job.

Plus gmax is free.

[evil penguin]

ooh noww you tell me... :p
what to do next...what to do next...kadesh mbf...thanx arioch, if you can do that that would be great.
well the kadesh mbf has like 20 seperate textures but its all good because its really the same thing. underside is fine.
ok i am now getting gmax or whatever

[F'Lar]

hey. you know what, all we need now is a fuel pod and a needle ship and we have all the kadeshi

[Amglco]

Any clue as to what w0ps was talking about? i'm in gmax, i've got the .3ds model of the advanced swarmer loaded, i do an unwrap to see how many textures it needs, which is 7, but 9 id's(page 0 used 3 seperate times). So i create a multi/sub material, and input all the textures in their correct order of id numbers, and once applied, looks great, but now what? how am i supposed to turn this into something tenkai can unfold?

[Montial]

well, this certainly has progressed fast...

Well done indeed to all involved.
Maybe you could take this to relic...?

[trebmal_ca]

hmmm, with autocad and a plotter, I could make a very large cruiser model. I would just need some fairly heavy paper though

[F'Lar]

do it and post it, make it so that the smallest polligon is the size of a piece of paper

[W0ps]

sigh...
the problem is all with texture coordinates... tenkai needs a logarithmic image size (like 128x128) as a texture. It doesn't display textures correctly on a 3ds. It does on obj. 3Dsmax has the ability to render an objects surfaces into a logarithmic sized image, and changing the object's UVW's so that it applied correctly.
example:
http://www.lekkerekwal.com/~ivo/miscim/Dreadnought.gif
with texture:
http://www.lekkerekwal.com/~ivo/miscim/Dreadnoughtexture.gif

nice. so now we convert the 3ds with the changed uvw's (since Max changed them for the render to texture) back to obj, import it in tenkai, and see that the to obj conversion totally screwed the uwv's up that max had recently applied. :(

if only tenkai could solve a 3ds texture correctly...

opening each texture and then photoshopping all the layouts into one? way too much work of course...

[Amglco]

If you could point at where I could find such commands or capabilties in max, that would be great, or maybe point me to a site...

I kinda get what your saying, although I didn't know max could do this, maybe a plugin?, but for now I kinda came up with a simple yet long and boring solution... Using Tenkai, you set up the layout to your liking, then you choose one of the textures, and save the resulting image, then you choose one of the others. This continues until you've saved an image of the whole thing as many times as there are textures, and splice it all together.

Yeah I know, not fun, but I suppose it could be done.

Edit: This sounds very familiar to me... Did someone suggest this already and for some reason I think its my own idea?

[W0ps]

it was the last paragraph of my post.
or at least, that was what I tried to point out...

3dsmax 5 has, in the render menu, the option "render to texture" wich applies only to the selected object, you add the type to render (for example lightmap, opacitymap or completemap, however you need the diffusemap) and 3dsmax takes all the current textures and then renders one bitmap, logarithmic in size, and applies that to the object. This is used to compress rendertimes, and for fake lighting. Also useful when exporting to game engines.

[Shrike]

This is all brilliant stuff and I love the Swarmer stuff, just to throw an idea in for tabletop board games - lead figures? Moulds are cheaper than plastic, and companies like Games Workshop have shown the level of detail you can get.

[trebmal_ca]

ya know, with the paper models, you could make a cool chess set

[F'Lar]

ya, so can you post the kadeshi fuel pods and the needle ship?

[evil penguin]

right. jolly good. ill get right to it, then.
edit:or ill do it after seeing the matrix again. it really dosnt matter.

[F'Lar]

thanks

[F'Lar]

so yeah, whats up with the models? graaaaaaaaa, why is no one responding to the posts, this is really disheartening that i cant get anyone to pay attention

[F'Lar]

woohoo, keep going cause im bored and wanna fold more

[SvK]

OK, the flightless one is now my hero.

[W0ps]

how about somebody'd post a picture of a folded one?

[Shrike]

I will set up The Garden (http://www.red-two.demon.co.uk/kadesh/index.html) tonight to host the Kadeshi ones and the Kushan fighters. Bit tired though, been working on the site all day. The link will work and I will post when it's up.

[Jackboot]

Evil Penquin-Many thanks! I'll be folding tonight.

I hope you don't mind if I link to the model page ;-)

[evil penguin]

nope...

[F'Lar]

yay

[Arioch]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I wanted to mention that I've set up a section on Homeworld Shipyards to host card models like those listed here. The first model I've posted is Brett Gentz's Supernova Research Station.

http://well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hwcm/SNRS.jpg

http://well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hwcm/

I'll try to contact a few of you about hosting your models, and if anyone has some models they'd like hosted, drop me an email at arioch@well-of-souls.com (mailto:arioch@well-of-souls.com).

[molo]

it'd be nice if people could blur the textures a little... they show up on these models like they're rendered in software mode and it looks sorta crummy.


badass idea though! i could go for some swarmers and a tai bomber.

[JAL-18]

That is seriously sweet stuff.

Great job, Brett! I hope you do more ships in this fashion. Your instructions are very clear and helpful. VERY user-friendly. I am honestly awed.

And thank you, Arioch, for your hosting services and support. This is very nice of you indeed, and really shows how the people in the HW community are a much nicer and generous lot then most.

GG both of you! :)

[Agar_beat]

Can't relic team up with Revell inc.? It's a German company (a big one) which also has published tons of Star Trek Voyager ships as plastic models...

[Gearz]

Crummy textures?? Woow... don’t want much. The problem is in the original lif files, they are tiny in comparison to the models. The textures for the Research Station are enlarged nearly 250% to cover the surface area. Blurring would make them look like wet crayon drawings. It’s the trade off between good textures and a reasonable size (workable) model. It is food for thought, though. A once off set of redrawn master textures would go a long way. Any volunteers?

[Teancum]

I'll bet they have master textures at Relic. Any chance of them giving us a hand? I can't imagine any reason why they couldn't hook us up with more detailed textures

[Arioch]

I don't think so. The HW textures look like they were created at that size.

[W0ps]

but how did Brent make that model? I managed to get some models in 3d paper made myself, but somehow it couldn't load textures on a 3ds file, and when I used a DXF format, it failed to display the maps the way they should have been... could someone (like Brent) pls tell me how to get things right?

[Gearz]

I don’t have access to any top shelf 3D software (or skills to drive it, for that matter) spent weeks trying to work around the format problem. So, I created the model from a base dxf file (dxf don’t have UV info = no map/textures) applying the textures to the Research Station by hand. For what its worth, extracted the lif’s to png then convert to bmp/gif, resized/rotated /punched/prodded/poked/buried in soft peat/abused/threatened, them to fit the models sections. Then painted them onto the bitmap of the model parts. It’s a pretty unsophisticated method (but it works). It would be excellent to have an all singing all dancing program, but it can be done without one. Sorry it’s not the sort of method you can just point to a url, and say steps 1,2,3. Give it a go, once you get an eye for it, it’ll open up a lot of possibilities.

Brett

[W0ps]

wOw

respect..!

I'll try... want one quite bad so I'll have to...

my problem was, that a 3ds models does have texture coordinates but somehow tenkai failed to put a texture on it, instead making it all grey/black...

[Koloth]

I have just finished piecing together basic documentation for my program I used to create my swarmer shown early in this thread. I sent off to Arioch a zip file containing documentation, my program, and two example outputs (the swarmer and the taiidan destroyer). Hopefully when he receives it he will be able to post it so the rest of you can get access to it. This program allows for the unfolding of textured models, but it is rather difficult to use and kind of finicky. Hope this helps.

[Arioch]

I've uploaded Koloth's file. You can download it here (554 KB):
http://well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hwcm/koloth_unfold.zip

[EH_AceTFL]

hmmm pretty program, but really hard in use. Not user-frendly in my know..

[Amglco]

Wow, didn't think this would come up again...
Glad to see some people still at it.
I rechecked the links to see what was up, and noticed that the pepakura site had an english section now!, and like tenkai (which if you check the tenkai site anyway, says tenkai is now pepakura), you can download it and use it without paying.(with restrictions)
But the reason I post this is because looking at the new features, I believe it can use MULTIPLE textures! Hopefully later, I and others who try it out can confirm this, just thought i'd say something first.

[EH_AceTFL]

heh For all who is to lazy to make their own models and who are imperial fans:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/outtadvancesupportfrigate0.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/outtioncannonfrigate0.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/outtstandardfrigate0.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/dfgnew.jpg

Those are (taidian) support, ion, standart(assalut) and dfg frigate. I hope you like em (if someone is still here ;) )

[JAL-18]

They're nice and all except...

they're tiny. The engine on the ICF is smaller then my thumb. :P

[Koloth]

EH_AceTFL:

Whose program did you use to make those? They look better than I remember my program doing with those ships.

[EH_AceTFL]

Originally posted by Arioch
I've uploaded Koloth's file. You can download it here (554 KB):
http://well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hwcm/koloth_unfold.zip
hehe :) Now you know.

Only one - yeah, those models are quite small, but resizing get awfull result - PIZELS [Edit - sick, Pixels] ATTACK :( . I gona make more models if someone like (i tried Faal-Courum LOL, that was nice). Unfold works, but not as unfold.exe, i recompilate sourse code, then program works corectly. I think compilating it to exe make error.

Enyway, it works :)

[Koloth]

If you are using 3d exploration, you can render larger images than that and then you wont have to rescale them later.

[edit] So the exe doesn't work right? Does it simply not run or does it not produce the right results?

[EH_AceTFL]

When i try to run exe file (whatever i write after unfold) it return:



According to the License Agreement of JET Personal Edition
deployment is prohibited.

If you wish to evaluate deployment facilities, please, use
Excelsior JET Evaluation Package freely available at
http://www.excelsior-usa.com/jetdleval.html


So .. nevermind.

Right - in 3dexploration there is more detailed mats option, but hmm.. how to apply it for all render images not only for curent?

[EH_AceTFL]

emm i means, that when i select next mesh to render, hi-quality gone somewhere, and i need to reselect it (its da**, becouse i need to export all meshes to other files and then merge them .. sick)


ok: here 2 other ships:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/outtmissiledestroyer0.jpg
and
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ehacecsf/images/Destroyer.jpg

Destroyer isnt mine - i download it with unfold but it is nice too, Missile destroyer its my work with redenger.

[Frish]

There was an ad for the BMW Mini in the New York Times recently . .

That included two punch out and fold up minis . . . They are pretty sweet.



I'm not a fan of the mini, but that was the single best car ad I've ever seen in a magazine.

[F'Lar]

what does that have to do with hw folding models?

[Gearz]

Take two....Questions, Questions, Questions. For those interested, I'm working on a few more ships in the style of the Research Station. From reading the messages in this thread, got the idea of creating a basic Battle Group for the respective races. So you could expand the group to your hearts content etc. Unfortunately, working with a clay tablet and chisel has its draw backs, I could do with a little assistance to get them under way. I could probable find the info eventually but I'm notorious for having the attention span of a cockroach. So If someone could give a helping hand, I'll scurry off and start creating.

Being a bit of a newb with 3D the following is really getting up my nose. For what ever reason the base DXF files don't load with a scale reference. i.e. the assault frigate is way bigger than the Ion Frigate? I could eye ball them from the game, Though I'd prefer to start off on the right foot, so the models don't have to be rescaled by the maker, or I don't end up with a tiny model to keep it in scale etc...


Using the Taiidan Carrier as a reference point ( its at the white test stage) . Could someone give me an idea of the scale of the: Cruiser, Destroyer, Ion Frigate, Assault Frigate and Support Frigate. Say as a percentage of length, to the carrier. Any reference will do, better then guessing.

Not quite a project question. Are the jaws off the JunkyardDawg and the parts of the scaffold a separate/individual peo files? if so, where in the big file are they stored? they are nice straight forward models, if I can find the peo's and lif files, there done. Even a side, top,end elevation pic/s of the dawg would do. I could then make the jaws, arm/tower from scratch.

As everyone has noted the textures are a real stumbling block. The default Taiidan textures look good. The Kushan's gray is pretty mundane. Its a one time job for me to do them, so any consensus as to a Kushan colour scheme. Get your two cents in, once there created that's it!

Last Q. Just as general interest, can anyone tell me if you can/will be able to extract ships from HW2 the same as HW? Bombed out totally with Cataclysm ??. The HW2 ships were the reason I got into Card models, it would be kind of disappointing to find they have changed formats/versions/code? like Cataclysm.

[trebmal_ca]

send me a PM, I have a spreadsheet with all that info
.
.
.
.
.
try that PM again gearz, I had to empty some stuff out.

[Montial]

Gearz: HW2 ships are pretty high poly (2000 on average? Compared to 200 in HW?), it'll be damn hard to make a model that wont have the maker tearing their hair out. If the models are triangulated it might make life a bit easier, but you might have to play around with the meshes and the texturing to get it to work. It wont be easy, full stop. After that note, it is alomost garunteed that you will be able to extract ships from a larger file. like homeworld. I can't back that up though, does anyone else know? The file formats will have changed. I dunno about file extensions (.peo .geo etc) but format and extensions are different things.

Plus, what do you mean by

...it would be kind of disappointing to find they have changed formats/versions/code? like Cataclysm...
Maybe i missed somthing but i did not realise that they changed anything.

[Gearz]

Thanks Montial, sounds promising, should have my card skills ramped up by that stage. So the high poly count, I can work around, it'll be good to make less angular models. As I said being a newb with the 3d, I am relying on the programs written by people a lot more talented than me. I use PEON (V1.0B) to convert the .peo to .raw, for some reason it doesn't want to know the Cataclysm peo files. Hoped I wouldn't be in the same boat with HW2. Guess a little knowledge is dangerous. If there is another way to do it (without high end software), I've got both hands up.

[Montial]

Hmmmm. I dunno about PEON. After I used it once it wouldnt recognise ANYTHING I ran through it. The lesson here? Don't fully trust any program that hasn't had $500,000 in its development history. Unless it's Microsoft, in which case you shouldn't trust it at all. Otherwise, keep going. You'll get past any problem you encounter (I believe they're releasing an editing package for HW2).

[Artagnan]

Didn't the ships in Cataclysm have higher quality textures than their respective homeworld ships? would there be any way to splice the models? On that note, keep up the good work everyone involved in this.

[Arioch]

The new (Somtaaw) ships in Cataclysm had larger textures, but the existing (Taiidan, Kushan, etc.) ships were exactly the same as HW1.

[Mikk]

Has anyone at all succeeded in completing one of those models successfully??? Pictures?

[Montial]

I managed to finish the supernova station on HWS.

[Gearz]

It is kind of a shame fans have to go to such lengths for a HW model. A 37" foam Taiidan Scout I started, came to a screeching halt when I discovered I needed another zillion skills to finish it.. I'm not much of a card model fan, but it looks like it will be only avenue, Persevere...

Thanks to trebmal_ca's excellent data, the Taiidan Battle group, is underway.The carrier had to go back to the drawing board. The Frigates will be the bench mark for scale (TBA), so the carrier will need internal bulk heads etc. So it doesn't collapse under its own weigh (its guna be BIG). The Assault and Ion frigate's are a combined model with a interchangeable nose sections for either vessel. Test building the white's now, just have to eliminate a few concave folds then do the textures.. A week or so and they'll be ready.

[trebmal_ca]

if you want, I can make blueprints for you. Iv done this in the past for a guy who is making a junkyard dawg model.

[Gearz]

If you mean the Scout, managed to make them from the dxf file.


Blueprints of the dawg would be excellent!, trying to make the jaws and arm from eye for a card model. Cause I can't find the dumb peo file.

[JAL-18]

I think the dawg is in the "traders" folder...


Taiidan battle group=Awsome! I really like how you're doing the nose sections for the frigates: it helps give people that image that the ships are related. (I know I'm not the only one who noticed that the aft section the frigates are all exactly the same.) You really deserve to be thakned for all the hard work you're putting into this. :up:

[Enterprise-E]

Hi Everyone!

Some of you wanted photos of the folded models.

I've made the Taiidan Skaal-Tel Destroyer, that was included with Koloth's program. I printed it to fill an A4 page, it is about 10,7 cm long.

Here's a shot of it, i think it looks very nice.
the beast's silhouette in front of my monitor (http://free.x3.hu/enterprise-e/Taiidan_destroyer_makett/)
//sorry i couldn't directly link the image, cause my damn web server doesn't allow it to link externally. does anyone know a free place where i can upload and link images?//

Im working on a new paper model, it may be ready in some days...
i like this paper-model idea very much, with a little care and time we could make quality-models of all our favourite ships of the HW universe.

That's all for now, bye:

[Mobius]

Hello, I've been following this thread for a while and the stuff that's been donehere is pretty impressive. (Arioch, hurry up and get more models up! ;) ) Anyway, some stuff that might help: www.villagephotos.com and www.imagestation.com are both pretty good image hosting sites. And there's a program called LithUnwrap (download link http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=198) that converts peo and geo to other formats (incl. dxf, 3ds, etc.), but I'm not sure if it can do textures/UV coords...If anyone figures anything out, I'd be interested to hear.

[Koloth]

On the topic of my program: I have recompiled it so that now the exes actually run. The link is the same as before, but now the download is larger at 2.83 Mb.

Gearz: What method did you use to make that model of the scout?

[Gearz]

Koloth I can tell you as far as I got! Enlarged a dxf of the scout for a blue print. It was basically a foam core with poor-man's fiberglass (PVA "white" glue and tissue) It makes a really resilient covering, worth experimenting with. Shaped the foam then filled imperfections with light weigh plaster filler, the ready mixed stuff, covered with layer of tissue and painted with 50/50 mix of PVA and water ~ sand~ repeat until you get the desired finish. Almost glass if you want.

The tissue "Wrinkles" practically disappear when dry. You can wet sand between coats etc. You can use just about any type of paint on the covering. Its really light weigh as well, before painting it only weighed a few grams. Thin Fiberglass cloth works as well with the PVA mix. Opens a lot of possibilities, I've got a 150 cm meter Mothership on the bench thanks to this technique. Just a few bucks in materials = bargain! Can't tell much about the painting not long after the "Gloss" Picture above, things turned to worms..one paint reacted with the other.. Sigh.

[Koloth]

Ah. That is an interesting method that I will look further into in the future. So was the first image of it before painting in its natural gloss. If so, then you areally can get it rather glossy with just tissue and PVA. That process reminds me a little of what I was initially planning when I wrote my unfolding program. I thought that I could build the paper model and then fill it with some of that expanding foam stuff and then it would be durable enough to shape by rounding corners or carving in details indicated by the textures. But that process left exposed foam which I initially tried to fill in with normal paper, but that failed. My initial plan combined with that method just might work to produce some high quality homeworld models at low cost.

[edit]
Enterprise E: I finally was able to download your image of the destroyer. Looks awsome! I never finished my destroyer becaasue the cat ate various parts of it when it was in construction. This might inspire me to try again.

[Mobius]

Just wondering (and too lazy to recheck this 12-page thread), has anyone managed to get the multiple textures thing in Pepakura to work? I've been fiddling around with it and it is possible (refer to sample files), but the problem is I can't get a file imported such that it recognizes multiple textures. For me, .3ds and .obj maintain UVs but not materials, .lwo maintains materials but not UVs, and .dxf does neither.

[Amglco]

Well, i've done another model... yup, its another really easy and simple box:loco:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p8755928977bf83867bf7ef3745d68bb0/fbb4b877.jpg.orig.jpg
Try this one: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/189983/crate.gif

As for using Pepakura for multiple textures, i've tried nearly all the formats, the .3ds was supposed to have the ability, but doesn't. The ones that do, make the program crash for some reason, but i'm closer.

And Enterprise-E, why can't i download your image? I've tried all day... could you upload to another location?

EDIT: I either don't know how to use imagestation, or they suck.

[Amglco]

Lightwave Object's do multiple textures. (*.lwo)
But I get this error when i try and get its textures in Pepakura:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/189983/kernel32.gif
I'm using 3d Exploration v. 1.5.30, if that means anything, perhaps the way i save it...
If someone could help me find a salution, i might finally be able to break the texture barrier!:nod:

[Gearz]

I'm hooked. Koloth, using a filled card model as a base, is an excellent idea! going to try that. Might get a top shelf Hw model yet. The Taiidan Frigates are underway, just have to nut out a two more build issues.

[trebmal_ca]

SWEET! I want one!

[Amglco]

How to get Homeworld models into Pepakura Designer WITH their textures:

BigViewer Tip - Not all textures are located within the same folder as the model, for an example,
all missing textures for the Kadeshi Swarmer can be found within the Kadeshi Advanced Swarmer
folder.(All Level of Detail 0 (Highest))

Programs Used:
BigViewer - Used to browse and extract files from the homeworld .big files.
3D Exploration - Used to convert the extracted files to a more common file type.
MetasequoiaLE R2.1 - FREEWARE, Used to take converted files and make them applicable to Pepakura.
Pepakura Designer - Used to turn 3d models into paper print-outs for folding.

Ok, I think I've finally come up with a way to have ALL textures on the model when using
Pepakura.

First, I got the files I needed from the .big file.(No problem, everyone should know this by now.)

Then, using the 3D Exploration program, I converted the 3d file(with all textures on it) to a
*.cob file, when the dialog menu pops up, the only thing that should have a checkmark is the "save
all textures as bmp files" and the box next to "Duplicate polygons" should say "Never".

Tip - Make sure these files and all future files related to your model of choice stay in the same folder.

Ok, now using the Metasequoia program, open the *.cob and when the menu pops up, the only thing that
you should change is the number next to the word "Multiply". Change this number to 1(For scaling
purposes, its best to have a universal number between them all.), and click "Ok"

Metasequoia Tip - If you set the number of multiply to 0, it will default to 0.001 and may cause
holes to appear in your model when opened in other programs.

Next, open the material panel(ctrl+m), and double click the material "mat1". In this screen you
should notice the name of the texture to the right of the "tex" box, also notice it does not have
a file path. Click the "ref" button to the right of the material name, and if you followed my
tip about file locations, you should easily find them.(Note - When I used this program, everytime
I clicked "ref" it would take me to the default file location of the program.) Now simply go,
one by one, throught all the mats and set them right, when done, and you've clicked ok, the
screen should rerender itself and should show you the model with all the correct textures in all
the correct places.

From here its easy, just click save as in the file menu, and save it in the same directory with
all the other files. The reason(About time I told you) is that when the *.mqo file is opened by
Pepakura Designer, it will not find the textures if not in the same folder.

Now just open up your *.mqo file with Pepakura Designer and TADAAA!, you've got your model, with
all textures applied, hopefully no holes depending on the model, and now you get to just spend
time figuring out how you would like to put it together.


Here's another link for the Homworld Shipyards link page:

http://www21.ocn.ne.jp/%7Emizno/main_e.html (Metasequoia)

Funny, I kinda noticed all the links there for this topic are the ones I posted. :)

Also, one last thing. (I promise :thumb:) Below should be a link of the swarmer. I havn't bought
Pepakura yet, so I can't save files except bitmaps, and its still a work in progress.
YAY! Not a box!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/189983/swarmertest.gif

[Mobius]

Amglco, you're a genius! It works perfectly! I have a Turanic Interceptor that might be up within a day or so. (There was one made earlier, but it had messed-up textures and wasn't laid out very well besides.) Now if only I could get the licensed version of Pepakura...

[F'Lar]

ok, i was looking at the pics and then i started to cut them out but realized that i had no idea how to fold them. can you also post instructions on how to fold them and not just the pics

[Mobius]

Actually, on second thought...maybe I don't want to do a Turanic ceptor. Thinking about another Tai Heavy Cruiser (a BIG one)...any alternate requests before I start tomorrow morning?

EDIT: Hmm...Bentusi Tradeship???

[Amglco]

F'Lar,
I'll try and come up with some instructions for models, but I need to come up with a format so I don't waste time. What type of instructional information do you need? Are pictures necissary, will number to number panels suffice, how complex is too complex? Answers to these questions and hopefully some other ideas will help in generating a format that could be used to create effective instructions for yourself and others.
Thanx.

Edit:
Thanx for the compliment Mobius, just glad I could help figure this darn problem out... the bentusi tradeship sounds awsome, if you do it, you gotta show us some pics! :)

[airguitargiles]

i will like to have a big plastic model of the hiigaran battlecruiser:p

[dd5]

If this thread is not a testiment to the divotion of the homeworld fan community I dunno what is. I mean to last nearly half a decade waiting for the second game , making fan fiction, modding every aspect , guessing and helping in the dev of the game and now making paper models. Whats next Homeworld expo?

I think if homeworld was converted to some other type of media it has the potential to be big very big.

[Amglco]

Crap, just found out another limitation of the Metasequoia program...
When updating the file path of the textures, if the path name is too long, it will cut it off and will not open the file.:cry:

So be sure to either keep names short, or don't go too far from your hard drive letter.

Edit:
Also, for those that want giant models, just found out that Pepakura Designer seems to have a 5 by 5 page limit... thats 25 pages in all. But I'm sure thats plenty big.:nod:

[trebmal_ca]

or, try to find someone with a plotter (4 foot wide printer for making blueprints) A print shop with a plotter will charge you about 3-5 dollars for a D size sheet (34"x22")

[Amglco]

I've been searching the Homeworld Shipyards website, and while in the turanic raiders section, I noticed their outpost. Where is the model in the .big file for this outpost?

[trebmal_ca]

in the cata big file the outpost is in Race P1

[F'Lar]

um, in response for the instructions. it would help alot if it had where to fold, how much of a fold and where the peices connect

[Mobius]

ok, no turanic ceptor, no tai HC, no bentusi TS. Instead I have a Kushan Carrier, working the kinks out of it, may have it up tomorrow if I feel like it. (Gotta love indecisiveness :P) Well, it might be longer. I'll try to make instructions and all. Turning once again to the people: Any particular color requests? What I have right now is blue base/white stripe (or more accurately, periwinklish-blue base/light gray stripe).

[Savaven]

Hello, I've been following this thread for the past couple of days. I followed Amglco's footsteps (registered 5 mins ago) and his instructions. Here is the result

Kadeshi Swarmer, assembled from Amglco's template:
http://www.geocities.com/nanotech_destroyer/Swarmer.html

Kadeshi Fuel Pod Template, assembled with Pepakura, printed out and scanned back in: (Lousy demo version wouldn't let me save)
http://www.geocities.com/nanotech_destroyer/FuelPod.html

:fallen:

[F'Lar]

cool, i still dont know how to fold it

[Amglco]

Wow! Thanx alot Savaven! I think your post of the swarmer might only be the second or third one on this entire thread, good job! Looking at it now, I probably should have released a higher rez version, and I will, once I put it together myself to make some instructions for those less familiar with the ships. Nice job on the fuelpod as well. Hopefully one of us on these forums will register the program and might be able to release the layouts for the pepakura viewer. Maybe when I'm rich:), how much is it? $50?

Edit:
changed "post" to "thread"
and found out pepakura designer is $38
Also, how hard was it to put together? (The swarmer)
#200 Post!

[Mobius]

Okay, Kushan Carrier is done, printed (in b&w :( ), and being assembled. Will post pic and layout later if successful.

[Koloth]

It is good that you guys got Pepakura working correctly, itis a lot easier to use than my program, and has a superior algorithm for unfolding it.

Gearz: have you done any more work on any of your model stuff

[Zilor]

I tried making paper models of some damned boat once... *begins to cry* It was terribley boring and the thing was weak as hell, perhaps i just suck... But I'll take plastic models over paper or cardboard.

I'd love to make a hiigaran battlecruiser, oh the fun that could be had.

[TyrealMathias]

Zilor, did u use card stock or regular printer paper? cardstock models tend to hold up quite well if u use the right glue....

i personally use the long rtransparent 'glue pens' .. dries decently fast, and holds together well...

Gearz, some of the textures on the Research station are off... many of them are reversed... but it is still nice :)

im currently assembling the swarmer... urgh... its a bit small for me, heh...

anyone seen building Cata models will be shot on sight.... -_-

[Amglco]

Supplies... I need cardstock among other things, yet my little 'ol town got rid of their store that sold such things. What are these places named anyway, I forget and have been trying to find online sources, maybe even a way to search where the nearest supplier of cardstock ect... may be.

[Arioch]

The only problem I have with Amglco's version is that the solid fold lines kind of ruin the look of the ship.

[Amglco]

I know I know, it was meant to be a syle test, not a finished product. It will be later though, those cross lines will be gone, and hopefully I can make instructions well enough so that I can get rid of some of those annoying fold lines as well.

[Mobius]

Well, my Kushan Carrier is done...zip file can be downloaded here (http://www.sharemation.com/cmde/kushan%20carrier.zip). I built one successfully but can't get a pic, and anyway it's on printer paper, and is black and white so it doesn't look that impressive. If anyone manages to make a good one, please post img here for us to see...

...unfortunately it has fold lines...

[Gearz]

Good to see plenty of soles getting into the card efforts. Thanks Amglco for the key to the texture barrier, Amazingly Amazing!. Solved a boat load of problems for me. Mobius are you using LiF-Edit to alter the team colours? or is there an easier way to do it? Also, blue with white strip has my vote.

Yeh..The Research station's textures are pretty sloppy....they were hand drawn onto the bitmap of the model. It was a first for me, I created it without any of the software mentioned on this thread. I'd like to go back and remake it with the correct textures, but there's tooo many other HM ships I want to concentrate on..

Progress on my Taiidan BG will be a lot slower than most. I'm working with a different end in mind. I've started, with the "folding" as opposed to the textures. So I've got eight or more frigates and parts there of, laying around. Won't move on to the textures, until I'm satisfied the models can be assembled by just about anyone. A bit frustrating for those waiting, but worth the extra effort.

This is a bit of a rant, food for thought, though.

Now the textures problem is resolved, consider carefully how you split the model up for construction. There'll will be plenty of first timers with glue up to the elbows, trying to assemble the ships. Even on this forum there's a lot of "how" questions, even from people that know what their looking at. So if the models migrate beyond here (which they deserve to do) the assembly instructions, will be bigger than the model If a logical sequences isn't considered. = Special note: this model requires six fingers on your left hand to assemble??.

This suggestion is a lot extra work, though it will pay off, when really complex ships come along = HW2.

Make a plain test model, just with a .dxf, to see if it has logical assembly sequences. Ask yourself "can I make it easier?" "would someone, that isn't familiar with HM ships, be able to put it together?" If it needs to be broken into parts. It can be done as an additional step to Amglco's method, In (Metasequoia) you can cut and slice the model in to modules. Add faces if you need to close a section, it will take the texture with the section, regardless of the shape, i.e. my Taiidan frigate's one ship two noses, also the Taiidan Ionfrigate's "Rails" where easier to assemble as individual modules, needed to be modified as well. The bitz transported into Pepakura with textures "Doing all the right things, in all the right places." Antennae / turrets /bulkheads.... there are lotz of bitz that would need this step.

Since most of the help is in Japanese. This is how I split the models up In (Metasequoia). It was trial and error, There's probably another way to do it, but this works and will be a starting guide if you want to experiment.

Most will be able to follow their nose with the cut / paste, just be careful when pasting, so there's not multiple parts in exactly the same co-ordinates. To avoid it, I use [MOVE] in the [COMMAND] Palette, instead of the cursor.

To create a new face / close off a section / make a bulkhead etc,

1. [COMMAND] Palette, select [CREATE] in the pop up menu, select [FRONT] and [FACE] .

"3 points makes one triangle/face". Work your way along the gap/sections coordinates in "zig zag" until the gap is filled/closed with triangle/faces.

2. On the [EDIT] Palette, select [UNSEL ALL] = just as a precaution, during intensive editing.

3. [COMMAND] Palette, select [SELECT] on the pop up menu, select [JOINED FACE]. With your cursor, select any line from your new section/face. All of the edited parts should change colour as a joined face. If it only selects triangles, you've missed one or started at the wrong co-ordinate. Can't suggest a easier way here, trial and error for me. Perhaps some of the wizards out there, could help with this one.

4. With your new section/face selected. Go to the menu bar at top, click [Selected] then [Invert] = not sure of this step, it just seemed to "join" the new section the main model? Important, so Pepakura doesn't force cut edges on the model.

With this additional step, the .mpo file will load as normal with all textures intact and faces closed off as blank surfaces. Do some experimenting, It will be a handy skill down the line.

Think big! these models are a first. We can flood the other Game forums {gesture deleted} with REAL sf ships, that can be assembled by anyone..

For what its worth, I use 200 gsm copy board, a steel ruler, one of those disposable.. ? box cutters/ trimming knifes, tooth pick and white PVA glue. The 200 gsm board, is a little thicker than standard card, aside from the extra strength, it makes cutting and scribing lines a little easier/safer..especially if you want a BIG model. Using a knife "with care" the tabs/flaps can be scribed into hinges, avoiding a lot of problems halfway through construction. A steel ruler is really handy while making valley folds.

keep up the good work, looking forward to making your models.

[Savaven]

If you don't want to register Pepakura, do what I did,

Construct, print and then rescan. Of course, this needs a scanner.....

Anyhow, mobius, great carrier! At least it has 0 fiddly bits (Unlike the damn fuelpod). Did you use perpakura as well?

[Gearz]

ooops..forgot to mention. Koloth, tried the filled card/ foam thing...It generated quite a bit of heat, turned into a football, then Exploded!...Haven't seen the dog for few days. There must be a product, that isn't as vicious as the hardware stuff. Maybe I'll scope out some model forums for a better product. Still think its a good idea, just have to find the right foam.

[Mobius]

to Gearz: No, I used some program called Lif2Psd (aka HWToolz), which converts them to layered photoshop format...then all I have to do is change the hue of the layers and save them as bmp. (Actually that's still pretty complicated.)

Savaven, yep, I used pepakura. There is a "copy as bitmap" function, that copies the template to the clipboard as a bitmap, but it's limited to 1024 (I think?) in any one direction, max, and that was too small. So I just took screenshots of the individual pages.

About the "fiddly bits" - If you just push the "Create Development" button, you're going to end up with a jumbled mess and several fiddly bits. So you should use the split edge and join edge tools to reorganize everything into more logical divisions - that's what I tried to do, hopefully it makes sense.

So...has anyone successfully built a carrier?

[Koloth]

Gearz:
I think that foam will work if you put less in so that it will expand to fit the space and leave a fairly large hole for excess foam to escape through. Remember, some of that foam can have an expansion ratio of anywhere from 1:4 to 1:2000. For our experiments you definatly want the foam on the lower end.

[Savaven]

Ermmm......... I did do a lot of chopping, Mobius. A LOT of cut edges etc. etc. I managed to reduce the number of bits, but not eliminate them totally. If you notice the fuel pod, there's a tiny triangle that i simply failed to identify (and thus eliminate) despite my best efforts.

[Gearz]

Koloth.. uuuuuuhhhhhhh...1:2000.. no wonder it failed. It was just Hardware stuff, so it was probably at the high end.....Just writing some assembly instructions for the Taiidan frigates, I've redesigned the modules on a larger version of the Ion frigate, to strengthen them..bulkheads etc.. going to try it again when I get some better foam. ?? Did you have in mind using a textured version of a model. Or going the distance and painting etc. think you mentioned coating and sanding? for a smooth model. I used some polyurethane on card once, to strengthen it, thought I could try it on this. But that would wreck the textures. Painting the detail sounds pretty scary.......

[Mobius]

Originally posted by Savaven
Ermmm......... I did do a lot of chopping, Mobius. A LOT of cut edges etc. etc. I managed to reduce the number of bits, but not eliminate them totally. If you notice the fuel pod, there's a tiny triangle that i simply failed to identify (and thus eliminate) despite my best efforts.

There's a button that highlights both the face in the cut view and the corresponding uncut face in the model. (Pass your mouse over all the buttons and read the tooltips. I figured out a lot that way.)

Gearz, NICE JOB on the carrier! Did you do it @ original size? I know the bridge gave me a bit of trouble when I did it...

If Arioch would like to put it on HWS, I'd have no problem with that (hint hint)...my file host is a little unreliable anyway and it has a bandwidth limit.

[Koloth]

1:2000 is for high grade industrial processes, so I doubt if your expansion ratio is over 1:20. It is probably much closer to 1:10 or 1:8. I should say somewhere on the can. The can I have advertises proudly its 1:16 expansion ratio. You just have to be careful.

I basically lept from what is a card model to failing to build a card model to writing software to designe card models, so I've had to make a great number of things up as I've gone along. Overall, though, it has been worth it. When I heald my first model and felt that "hey cool!" feeling I was hooked.

Nice carrier as well.

[Enterprise-E]

Finally i did my project:

I think you can easily recognise her...
http://web.axelero.hu/dob07632/Taiidan_concept_saarkin-cho.jpg

Does someone want the print-outs for it?

I have to rearrange them, so not so many paper sheets will be consumed to print. (i used 8-9 sheets i think)
It was quite hard to assemble her...

[Amglco]

I have a new appreciation for anyone who can put these together.
For the past 3 days i've been trying to get my own swarmer model together, and found out I don't have much patience or skill. I've gotten to the head of my model, and well, I really really hate small parts that go every which way:). I only have the tail and the top parts left, but already I see lots of problems i must correct to make it easier to build. Tab locations alone would've helped immensely.

Working right now on possiblility of an internal structure to help in the building process as well as increase overall strength. Also trying to figure out an alternative to tabs, something like slots for the harder to get areas.

Edit:
Whoops, forgot to compliment Enterprise-E on a job well done :D
Where does that model come from, I think I kinda recognise it, not sure though.

[Arioch]

It's the Taiidan-Necron carrier! :D


If Arioch would like to put it on HWS, I'd have no problem with that (hint hint)...my file host is a little unreliable anyway and it has a bandwidth limit. Sure, send it to me. All you guys, if you have models that you want posted, make instructions as best you can, take pictures if you can, zip 'em and send them to me.

[Mobius]

The link for the zip again is http://www.sharemation.com/cmde/kushan%20carrier.zip

Go ahead and use Gearz's shot from above (assuming he doesn't mind...tell me if you do, Gearz).

Enterprise, is that a scratch-made model? It looks a lot like the Tai carrier but it's...different...

[Savaven]

Thanks a lot mobius, tried the trick just now, works like a charm now.. :)

Anyway, new model is up. This time it's the Kadeshi Multibeam Frigate (gotta love those gas-cloud worshipping maniacs).
http://www.geocities.com/nanotech_destroyer/Multibeam-Frigate.jpg

BTW, I was wondering if anyone wants to help make instructions for these fellows and send em over to Arioch. I'm lousy at giving instructions, so if anyone can help, please do :).

For the Greater Good of Homeworld.
:flamer:

P.S If anyone has had success/horrible disasters with the fuelpod or this guy, please let me know and try to post pics, or send them to me, I can post em as well.

[Enterprise-E]

Arioch, i like that ship cause it looks like a Borg ship. :Pike:

I have reorganized the parts, so it fits to 4 pages only...

I'll try to make some instructions for it, and send the entire stuff to HWS..

[TyrealMathias]

hmmm.... the others aer correct... it clearly IS the Tai Car.... but...... its.... different.... odd......

[JAL-18]

It's the Tai Carrier from this piece of Concept Art. (http://www.well-of-souls.com/homeworld/hws/concept/images/display.htm?r2carrier.jpg)

[Enterprise-E]

I've made Mobius' Imperator carrier.

Looks cool with my Taiidan concept Carrier, and they're in scale...
http://web.axelero.hu/dob07632/Carriers.jpg

[Gearz]

Well done Enterprise-E, Want to try your Carrier next.

[JAL-18]

Destroyer please..gotta start small.

Excellent work!

[Mobius]

er, yeah...Arioch, do you prefer that I e-mail it to you?

[TyrealMathias]

destroyers next...


damn swarmer... got the tail, top body, and face attatched to each other, and the other 2 parts connected to each other.. but cant get them together correctly...

suggestions for making module-built things... i like how Gearz made

[F'Lar]

hc next plz. i really want a hc

[Arioch]

Originally posted by Mobius
er, yeah...Arioch, do you prefer that I e-mail it to you? I got it, just haven't got around to posting it up yet. I'll get on it. :D

[Mobius]

Originally posted by F'Lar
hc next plz. i really want a hc
shall I make that my next project then? Tai i'm assuming?

I'm not gonna try to do a fixed scale, though, so...too bad.

[F'Lar]

damn, its ok though. and yes a tai hc

[Enterprise-E]

Have done a Tai Skaal-Fa MD :missile:
colors were special request of my girlfriend

http://web.axelero.hu/dob07632/Skaal-Fa.jpg

[F'Lar]

cooooooool

[Montial]

Mmmmmm, relic forums, the home of fuzzy screenshots...

[Arioch]

But the table in the background is nicely in focus. :D

[TyrealMathias]

dont you see? he made a card model table! :)

pweetty colors.....:hippy:

[Savaven]

Has anyone gotten a full version of Pepakura yet?

[Enterprise-E]

I have made the Taiidan Qwaar-Jet class Heavy Cruiser.

sry for fuzzy screenshot of Missile Destroyer, im not an expert photographer. This time i made it better.
http://web.axelero.hu/dob07632/qwaar-jet.jpg

[Montial]

That is some sweet work.

Any chance of the files for these models being cleaned up and posted? (I mean like the SN research station, though that looked like a couple hours work.)

[Teancum]

Wow. VERY nice work. /me wants
Is that a pile of confetti in the background?

[Mobius]

agreed..yes...get the files up!!

[slimpinto]

What kind of printer are you using and what app do you use to print the model on?

[Enterprise-E]

to all who want my files:

The Missile Destroyer is ready, but i cant make picture instructions for it, only text.

The Qwaar-Jet heavy cruiser is more difficult: i have the unregistered version of Pepakura, so i cant save any of my projects. I can only export them in BMP format, but there's the 1024 pixel limit. The Heavy Cruiser is a 4 page large model, and so the 1024 pixels aren't enough. I can try to post it, but i think it will be very pixelated when you print it. This makes no prob on the ship textures, cause the orig. textures have low resolution anyway, but the fold lines are terrible.

slimpinto: im using a regular ink-jet printer, on regular printer paper.

[Gearz]

My Taii Frigate/s are done. Same style as the SN Research Station with step by step graphic assembly instructions / optional parts etc. You'll be able to get them from HWS when Arioch has the op to post them. These two aren't real easy to make but the AI's will help just about everyone make a nice model/z.

[Mobius]

to enterprise-e...I used unregistered pepakura too, and I don't know if this will help but instead of copying as bitmaps, I zoomed in on each page as much as i could and took screenshots.

[ToastedLightly]

Arioch post those models!