View Full Version : [DC1.51]Necron Warrior& builder scarab
28th Oct 06, 7:06 PM
Problem 1- Free Builders
No matter which race I use during automatch, I always have to think about how much workers I should build because they cost requisition, but with necrons I can build a bunch of worker scarabs without hesitation because they cost nothing at all.
Problem 2- Wailing Doom
Although necrons are slower on unit construction speed at the earlier time of a game, a fortified obelisk can defend early rushes easily with necron warriors and necron lord. On smaller maps such as Eden, wailing doom will become even more handy.
Problem 3- Necron Warriors
Although necron warriors are slow, their combat abilities are far better than any other units that can be made at the early time of a game. By walking them to enemy's LPs, you can blow the LPs down rather cheaply, and summon them back to base when the enemy reinforcement arrives. If there's only 1 necron warrior left in the squad, you can simply delete him and swap for a brand new squad with full hp because necron warrior cost nothing at all.
Apart from the fact that they have great combat ability, their self-resurrecting ability also makes them extremely handy while carrying out an assult on enemy bases and home defence.
Problem 4- Obelisks
Necron Obelisks cost very small amount of power to be built, the enemy don't really get much advantage by destorying one while you have more than 5.
The builder scarab should cost resources (in this case, power) just as the other races do.
Wailing doom is a very powerful ability. Wailing Doom should cost power while used.
Necron warriors should cost power for construction, therefore deleting a one-man necron warrior squad does not give Necron advantage.
Obelisks should cost more power and time to be built.
28th Oct 06, 7:22 PM
The reasons for why those above mentioned units do not cost anything is because, first, scarubs are the necron's capper/decapper/builder. Wraiths may be able to decap, but only scarubs can cap. You need alot of them to do anything. Necron Warriors may be free, but they are very slow builds/reinforce early game, to build necron warriors you also tie up your only unit producing structure, meaning you cannot go teir2, build a lord...ect. Oblisks are cheap, they have no attack unless you spend 75 power to upgrade them, then they get one spell every 1.5minutes or so. Another thing, power is alot harder to gather than req, and every subsequent power generator you build takes alot longer, and costs more power than the last. 75 power early game is a fair amount to spend to upgrade an oblisk that gets one attack, when you've usually only got +30 or +40 when you're heading into teir 2. You also mentioned having more then 5 oblisks, thats not going to happen very often in a 1v1, which is what most balance conerns are for, when most maps have 8 points, and you'll be fighting over them constantly.
Just my thoughts.
And also early game i doubt you'll ever see a necron with 5 scarub squads, because you need to be constantly using your monolith for other things, like getting a lord, warriors, and teiring, i usually dont get mine till i'm completely spent on resources in teir 2.
If you delete a 1 man necron squad to build another, you tie up your monolith that can probably be producing better units.
28th Oct 06, 7:27 PM
5 scarab is through the whole game, but at the beginning necrons do have advantage of having free workers
28th Oct 06, 7:29 PM
No 1 - Initial cost only, so they function like grechins. should cost around 25 power.
No 2 - BS. its a single time use on a cooldown and the obelisk itself is defenseless. all other LP2's have some form of attack. Fightning near LP2's is always risky. The skill itself simply does large knockback and little damage.
No 3 - their 3 warriors. I dont know what you mean by advantage, but its nothing massive. a slight rebalance and reduction of the upgrades effects and necron warrior standard damage would be reasonable here. base damage should be higher, but the first research's effect lower. Also warriors take longer and longer to build for more of them, cost power to reinforce. if a necron player is walking around massed squads of 3 necrons, your troops should have little to no trouble beating them. If their reinforced money went into them.
No 4 - Ok, so HOW MANY POINTS would a necorn player EVER get? getting 4 is hard enough, 5 for 100% is quite tough on most maps, anything more is silly hard to get. not to mention all the side issues nerfing obelisks could cause. the speed bonus comes from the Obelisk, not capping the point. thus, points provide cap only until they are built on. if anything an increase to 30 power would be acceptable. other than that i think your trying to completely bugger necron tier 1.
28th Oct 06, 8:17 PM
If you're building Builder Scarabs, you're not building Necron Warriors or the Necron Lord. Build five at the beginning against competent automatch opponents and you will run crying home to mama.
Wailing Doom isn't obscenely powerful, although the recharge is somewhere between 30 seconds and one minute (it really pays to micromanage those things!). Keep in mind that upgrading the Obelisk doesn't provide the Necrons with any advantage besides defensive firepower. The other races get increased requisition rates with LP2 and LP3.
Another thing: you don't actually explain why the first two "problems" are actually problematic. They sound fine the way they are to me.
Necron Tier 1 is already buggered enough now that people are figuring out decent strategies to defeat them (not to mention exploiting the Summoning Core armour). It's only been two weeks since the game's been out in the States!
28th Oct 06, 8:31 PM
Ok, so you guys say that it takes necrons so long to build and crap and that is supposed to counter the fact that t1 units are both free and insanely strong. Not mentioning that the turrets for necrons are stronger and longer range than most units, scarabs can always back up a turret, a single necron warrior squad + lord can usually repel anything or simply a few turrets and a lord or warrior.
Then you say they won't be taking points? come on, once they repel the initial assault all they have to do is walk to a point, blow up the lp in like 10 seconds and cap it with scarabs. This can be done right up to tthe enemy base
Of course by the time they get to your base if you haven't been turreting to hell + building anti-infantry from the get go - 3 t1 squads will take down most of ur buildings in a few volleys, heaven forbid you didn't kill the lord earlier. So how exactly were you supposed to get to t2 and still have time to do anything?
And who is ever gonna kill the squads to begin with? they start on a fight they can't win? hello-goodbye tp back home or wherever else on the map they have a struct. That allows you to take the point but now they know what you are up to and can take appropriate counters, by the time you make it to the base your screwed and all your army does it retreat or die.
Basically, if you are any good with necrons you will smack the hell outta someone who isn't at least twice the micromanager you are.
That my friends = op.
28th Oct 06, 8:51 PM
Some races require more micromanagement than others. I'd put Necrons somewhere in the middle (a lot of players never even remember to use Wailing Doom, for instance). Eldar bewilder me and Space Marines bore me, that's just how I feel.
Your post is a little ranty compared to the tone of this thread, firemyth, and there are plenty of ways to shut down Necrons in the early game. Also remember that Builder Scarabs cap slower than any other cappers in the game.
28th Oct 06, 8:54 PM
Sound ranty? well maybe because it was. I play as IG mostly, i'd like to know one good way to take down necrons up front?
I mean come on, go look at the stats
All races with the exception of necrons have fair amounts of losses. I don't know where they get the 56% but i know that if you have 15861 wins and 1229 losses it's not 56% wins or losses. That's more like a 90% win rate.
Ok just saw another stat said that they had somewhere near 12297 losses or something which is definatly closer to 56% but which stat should I believe?
28th Oct 06, 9:08 PM
I'd like to know how to defend against a chaos player who rushes zerkers. :)
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