HW2 : Generations of War main thread

[beiltan]

Ok, this is the main thread for my TC mod for homeworld 2 called (for the moment0 Generations of war

First of, here is the terran fleet so far

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/fleetshot.jpg

clockwise from left top corner is as follows:

Missouri class Battleship
Broadside class Battlecruiser
Argonaut class Cruiser
Warspite class Light Cruiser
Hood Class Destroyer
ANZAC class Frigate (from which, the Seeker, Duke and Spectre class are built)

The Terrans rely on projectile weaponry, with only secondary beam weapons. weapons for the terrans are as follows

Primary - Rail cannons (think Erasor E-guns)

Secondary - Pulse guns
Phasers (minimum light cruiser hull)

Tertiery - MK 94 ADCAP longbow torpedoes
Quantum Torpedoes

Defence - SL55 AMG missiles
FCD flak cannons

Terran ships arnt very manuverable or fast, but they are havily armoured and very deadly at long to medium ranges. Their vulnerable to close attack or inderect fire, as their main turrets cannot traverse to cover all arcs at close range, and defence turrets are weak againts overwhelming ordance attacks

[Rabiddog]

Cool...but let's see the pics :wink: And could you explain the color coding you use on the blue prints...
For example say:

Green= system type
red= system type

So on and so forth.

[beiltan]

ahh, do u mean the side and top views from my previous threads, there just layer colours i use in my modeler

pics up in first post, i forgot to put it in :yas:

[Retroboy]

This looks VERY promising, beiltan. I'm wondering if you're trying to produce a more Horatio Hornblower-ish naval kind of warfare, where a significant number of weapons on the various ships pound with broadsides on their enemies, and a combination of appropriate manoeuverings wins the day.

How do you see a capship-vs-capship battle working out for your fleets?

-- Retro

[JAL-18]

I see RDN level 2 in your future...

[verybad]

Some of the Greebles on your ships look like smokestacks...I'd reccomend replacing them with aegis type/looking radar arrays. Integrated feel to your fleet which is good.

[Magus]

Apologies if you've already read these.
Alien Race(s) Ideas:
1. Much sleeker ships, curved hulls, less obvious weaponry.
2. Multi-Racial Alliance: Use several different types of alien vessels each with a different focus (for example, using HW races, the kadeshi would provide the fighters, raiders the corvs, and Taiidan the Caps, etc.)
3. Use different either very advanced weaponry types, such as:
Maser cannons(heavy beam weapons)
Lightning Field Generators(Close range Point defense weapon)
Distortion Torpedeos (creates spatial/temporal distortions at detonation.)
4. Or primitive weapons:
Lasers
Nuclear Bombs
Bomb-pumped Lasers/Xasers/etc. (Bomb explodes, channeling most of energy into Lasers/X-ray Lasers)
5. If your going for advanced look, use bright/large navlights to make ships nimbuses of light
6. Keep the Hiigaran/Vaygr Fleet differences
I would offer to help, but I've just been experimenting with Shp. Editing and 3-d Modeling for the first time (And my copy of Quickedit refuses to work) so I am very inexperienced

[F'Lar]

dang




thats all i have to say

[Ammon Ra]

probably could churn out as many ships...but not motivated...

If you need help with creating the Alien race... Ill be pleased to help.
*bows formally, and hits bottle of water, spilling water over keyboard...*

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ops :D...

[beiltan]

i hate when that happens. I would love your ideas posted here, and ill be considering them deeply.........?

[beiltan]

New ship out, here she is,

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/enterprise.jpg

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/battlemode.jpg


She's a beuty, if i dont say so myself, and she is helll against strike craft that stray to her.

For the Defence missile turrets, i might make them a subsystem reserch upgrade for all ships, so that they only start with flak cannons

Now, i would really like anyone who would be willing to texture this or any other of my ships, if u are interested, please post or PM or email me, thanks

[Ammon Ra]

...erm....okay...

ideas, sure.


weak against overwhelming ordance attacks

okay, so akording to that, the other race "should" be heavy on high ROF weapons, swarmers, or lots of weak missiles. with the occational "advanced weaponry".

I assume your not going for the "advanced, smooth" alien ship sort of look...right? if so then the other race should mostly be different in tactics and strategy.

as for ship design...wel vertical ships are take nby the Vaygr, esp with the "bulky/semi-retro" look, wich i think your mod is aiming for. and you're not going for the smooth, curved super alien look,. so how'bout something inbetween.

also magnus has the some importatn points. depending on the look and feel you want to give to the other race.

i'd stick to heavy on missiles, high ROF weaponry (but weak) and swarmers, if not, then just lots of fast, weak fighters....erm...Vaygr anyone :D

[beiltan]

i myself was thinking a focus on powerful beam weapons and masses of ordinance, fairly short ranges for beam weapons but very fast, light ships, small firing arcs, cloaking ships, oh, and did i mention ordinance

[Rabiddog]

Well if you don't mind me reinforcing some ideas and adding some of my own I'll say this:

1. Give the enemy pulse beam cannons they can use to "strafe" across the hull of the terran ships (make em rather weak and put em on fighters as primary weapons and on cap ships as PD weapons and the like). This way the aliens are "obviously" alien. Just don't make the pulse beams uber powerful yah know :wink:

2. Give them large yet weak missile salvo's to coinside with their capital class beam weapons this way they can strike through some of the point defense turrets.

3. Give them several beam weapon types some strong some weak and maybe only one or two types of kinetic weapons.

4. Make their ships look sleek and fast but fragile, and make their weapons ports look like part of the hull or something decorative and not like "turrets" this way they look different from the Terran weapons mindset.

5. I'd sugjest you for the terrans you use small gunboats and cutters, and maybe "scouts" only. While with the aliens you give them fighters instead but make their fighters weaker armed than the terran cutters and gunboats. However since they are fighters you should make it so they can chew up a Terran scout squadron easily while they would have maneuver as an advantage over the cutters and gunboats.


And can you point out where and the torpedo tubes and maybe highlight what weapons are what for us less observationaly adept persons :wink:?

[beiltan]

on the capital ships, the torp tubes are on the lower prow "chin" like area.

[Ammon Ra]

ion fighters???.....erm...ok...

or at least make them "ion gunboats"..with one or two low power beam weapons..yah, thay'll work.

again emphasise on "large ordinace weapons", missiles, torpedoes...and the occational beam weaponry.

beiltan, what sort of ship-style were you thinking to give the alien race? Semi-hidden turrets, with lots of weak missiles, emphasise on massive ordinance, some rail, and some beam.

beam weapons aren't very abundant. so there'll be more rail, missiles, flack/kinetic burst weapons. plasma weapons??

[beiltan]

more like pulsar fighters. yeah, the focus will be on masses of missiles, torps beam weapons, both ion and pulsar, and very little kenetic weaponry

[Rabiddog]

Yeah I wasn't thinking ION fighters that would be TOO powerful, I was figuring more like a pulsing light beam weapon... sort of like this one http://www.ladymaigrey.com/seasontwo/mayflies/019.jpg It shoots pulsing beams that do rather low damage but have a more "area spread" effect along a ships hull causing it to skip across the hull. I think it'd be good anti sub-system weapon at the very least. And they'd be great in a dogfight of course they are rather short range.

And am I mistaken or are those launch doors on the missouri class battleship's side, cause if so COOL!

And if the aliens are dependent on missiles than how would they be any different than the Terrans?

[Magus]

On the Aliens:
As I said before, the alien side could be a confederation of races, so you can use many ideas. I've been something based on your ideas(Stupid english assignment, have to write 1 page a day on anything, and the teacher doesn't even look at them)
There are 3 alien races: (Please ignore stupid names)
Kali'sal: Ships built of an energy fousing crystalline material. Very fast (Frig at 850 m/s, fighter at 1500m/s), powerful pulse weaponry, Very little armor

Laiitiasa: Relatively primitive. Ships are slow (Fighters at 600m/s, but they don't get much slower), Weapons are mainly missiles and large, ineffecient beam weapons. Heavily armored and cheap

Kazlach: Sort of midrange tech, Uses gravity weapons that spin their targets(Breen Dest in SoA mod) or repulse them.
**All speeds are assuming HW1 type maps/speed

What do you think?

[beiltan]

launch doors? , if u meant the carrier, then yes, if u actually did mean the missouri, then WTF?

[Rabiddog]

Oh....sh!t I could have been sure I saw a few shaded squares om the side of that battleship...or battlecruiser. Erm guess it was my imagination.

BTW a battleship should be able to carry fighters :D .

[beiltan]

The battleship, battlecruiser and cruiser have stern dorsal hangers/launchpads for a craft that will perform the same roll as the seahawk helicopter, plus other strike craft

[Ammon Ra]

Hmmm....interesting.
terrans mave massive rail/kinetic weapons, some missiles and beam. right?

so if the alien race depends heavily on missiles,that's not so similar to the terans, but it is similar to the Vaygr...

okay, i was just being picky on the "ion fighter" a pulsar vette, yeah sure, but a pulsar "strike craft" class ship...that's pushing it. but if it's balenced, then sure.

To get the distinctive feel to the aliens, keep the sort of terran ship feeling, a bit more "functional" and give them smooth turrets, i mean like completly round, or smoth turrets, with beams/missiles/rail fire coming from them. keep turrets, but make'em smother and distinctly diverse from the alien, but keep the semi-retro look (waits for retroboy to pop up...)...
-ra :frog:

[Rabiddog]

Oh...SWEET I'd love to see my cruiser battlecruiser and battleship squadrons being able to carry their own escort ships with them :-). It would just add to that retro-coolness you have in your Terran fleet.

And I agree with Ammon Ra about how you could make your aliens have smooth turrets and smoothed hulls and the like to give them a distinct alien appearance.

Now Ammon to answer your question about a "pulsar fighter" it's actually not that hard to explain, the aliens are big on beam weapons so instead of traditional kinetic weapons he could give their fighters or gunships a pulsar like gun that inflicts the same ammount of damage as they would if they were railcannons it would just give them a unique feel.

[Ammon Ra]

Thanks rabid ;) i really didn't get that :p :nyah: :jk:

but don't put tooo much smothed hulls for the aliens...takes the "retro-look" from the mod. IF at all the aliens are suposed to have such a look.

[beiltan]

New update, this time it is the first prototype for the aliens, this ship is about a frigate/destroyer size, and has 2 heavy pulsars and 8 missile launchers

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/poopja.jpg

the missiles are duel purpose, but are not nimble enough to take down dedicated strike craft.

On to other developments, im thinking of removing the torpedoes off the terran capital ships, exept for the destroyer and torp frig, and designing a submarine typer vessel, 2 actually, 1 attack and 1 ballistic missile.

that will take the emphisis(SP) of the terrans away from ordance and rely more on their guns, which is what i really want :matrix:

[JAL-18]

nice...but it looks like a fighter. I would suggest making it bulkier, to give it the feel that this is a lumbering behemoth, capable of blasting most planets to pieces.

[beiltan]

but it ait a behemoth, its just a frigate, plus the aliens emphesis is on speed

[JAL-18]

still look too fighterish to me...maybe it's the holes in the wings...

you probably shouldn't listen to me. I always seem to be in the minoraty. (engines are tight ass though)

[F'Lar]

hell yeah dude, you kick ass at making models. some of the mods i have seen suck ass cause the models are blocky and like 10 polygons

[beiltan]

thanks, i was proud of those engines, here is a close up for ya

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/poopja-eng.jpg

[beiltan]

New ship in progress, the terran mothership concept, Ticonderoga Station

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/baseWIP.jpg

[Zefram]

all these designs kind of remind me of starship troopers

[beiltan]

its one of my basis's

[Zefram]

which is nice.. the mothership looks nice and that its going to be one big biiiig ship

[flipper]

Hey, that mothership model kinda looks like one of the concept art pics that appear at the top bar on the Homeworld style forums....
Heres a pic:
http://forums.relicnews.com/images/Homeworld/NL2.jpg

Looks cool.

[beiltan]

it was my concept design, actually

[beiltan]

Ok, now that i have some models, i want to have a fang at texturing, problem is, i have no i dea where to start, if anyone knows of any good programs to use (i have rhino 3D and gmax) and tutorials, or if they would like to have a go themselves, please speek up

[Aurek akareth]

Ok, let me just put in some constructive critcism.
you're alien ships (well the one so far) looks great. Keep that up. The terran ships however are very very blocky. They need some more detailing. You need to put a bit more thought into them rather than just chopping up some boxes and sticking turrets on em.

Ok on the texturing. This is the place most people who have some ideas and start modeling ships fail. My one piece of advice is. Try try try and try again. you MUST learn to model texture and import into the game (I know its not out you but this is advice for the future) if you;re mod is to have a chance. Do not recruit people to do the textures for you. It will not work.

Now, get photoshop and read the texturing tutorial here: http://www.tgu.org.uk/users/trek-hw/

A fantastic, cheap low poly modeler: http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

[Zefram]

everyone else thinks his ships look good..

[Aurek akareth]

They're entitled to they're opinion as well. I think they are a bit too busy. They have all theese thowers and antennae and millions of turrets but they're hulls are very bare. Its the big ships Im talking about. The frigates on the bottom row of pics are much better.

Ive taken a second look and I think they would probably look better when textured.

I would like to know how many polys they are.

[Zefram]

he has mentioned poly counts in other threads... like 3k +

[beiltan]

i never said i wasn't going to learn myself, of course i am, i just though some ppl might want to have a go. I also have paint shop pro 7, is that good for making textures, and is their tutorials for PSP for texturing

[verybad]

Well the whole thing about making a mod is that texturing is the most difficult and time consuming (if your doing a good job).

The best texturers can generally model well (because they started there) in addition to texture, and the good texturers don't want to work on somone elses mod, they want their own, or they want to work with a group of REALLY good, seasoned artists making an elite mod.

[Retroboy]

Just a comment that the texturing will significantly reduce the blockiness. If you look at the Hiigaran ion cannon frigate from HW2, it pretty much would be a big gray cigarette without the textures.

GG, Beiltan. Reserve lots of time for texturing - you'll need it! :)

-- Retro

[Ammon Ra]

agreed on textureing. ony tex job i've ever done was put an entire texture to a single ship.. that's aall i can do :D

[beiltan]

OK, i have 5 days left of skool FOREVER, well, exept exams, so im gona start work on my rather dead mod again. With the demo out i can finally get a look at the file structure, as can others, so i might try a few simple imports to see how it works. ( i promised myself i would not buy HW2 till after exams, which are over a month away, now imagine my agony after i played the demo) Ill post soon to show some progress to the alien ship prototype

[thrawn]

Just a quick question, since the Terrans' larger ships have that cool WW2 battleship style: Can you mod the units' AI (not the CPU players', but the one which defines how a unit acts in a certain situation, e.g. target priorisation) so we will see the larger vessels going into broadside position?

[beiltan]

oh, definately, and after seeing the vag dest in action, it is gona be sweet. The other race will be a completly different tactic, a bit more swarming birds of prey style.

[thesquare]

One minor tip... I hope you plan on fixing that ugly face normal problem that your having. One good way to fix it is to ither divide the poly or to actualy edit the normal node or to make it planar :P hope that helps you can also break the surounding verts or edit triangulation. whatever you do, do something.

[beiltan]

ok, right......huh?

[beiltan]

ok, ive done some work on the terran ships weapon layouts, and have done the following modifications.

prow torps weill be moved to broadside tubes on all cap ships

quantum torpedo's will be removed totally, for now

re done the pulse cannon turrets

after seing the flak frig effect on the demo, my AA guns are gona work like a charm.

Here is an image of the light cruiser with the modifications

http://beiltanpics.homestead.com/files/warspte2.jpg

ill be refitting the rest of the fleet with these upgrades over the next week or so, before starting on something fresh.

[Eazy E]

dont make the antennaes just cylinders: aim for the hw2 sensor style, looks much better