[1.3] Manpower Costs too high for Axis? (linked to Sherman)

[Mistenth]

Axis infantry cost more MP to build.
Axis infantry cost more MP to replace than riflemen.

Sherman costs 420MP.
StuG can't beat Sherman.
Panzer IV can't beat Sherman.
Sherman can usually 1 shot kill 2 expensive infantry, even with the new changes in cover.
Panther costs 640MP.
Tigers cost 1000MP.

In short, the strongest German tanks cost a lot of MP. If Axis save up MP to get them, they lose the whole map. If they use StuGs / Infantry, and especially infantry, the constant loss of MP keeps them from getting those strong tanks.

It is hard to retreat StuGs as well to save them, as Shermans are faster and stickybombs can cause engine damage.

Shermans are fast and can usually retreat, which saves the Allies MP and increases the MP gap.

An Axis player who manages early map control has little advantage in MP and can still lose a match due to this MP disparity.

Suggestion 1: Make KKF upgrades cost 50/100/150 MP instead of 100/200/300 MP.

Suggestion 2: Make VPs and RPs give +10MP in addition to their usual bonuses.

Suggestion 3: Reduce MP costs of reinforcing German infantry AND increase their squad size

[Mutters]

Axis armour owns unless your opponent abuses the smoke bug too much.

For one sherman you can normally bring out two stugs.

Try building T2 and use the paks they are better than many give them credit for.

[evotech]

but they cost less fuel so your points are irrelevant IMO

[AntiCommie]

I've noticed this too... Its worse on high fuel maps because once the game becomes a tank spam fest the allies have an advantage. I dont think its a huge issue though, because the superority of Panthers is definately apparent now in 1.3 and they are worth the extra cost. Last night I had 2 panthers take on 3 smoke shermans and an AT gun and I killed all Shermans while only losing 1 Panther(I retreated the last almost dead P from the AT).

If you made VPs/RPs give more MP, that wont fix anything. The allies will get the bonus too. I also dont think the german squad size needs to be changed, reinforcements might be cheaper and leave squad cost the same, or make squad cost less (make volks 270 and grens 285) and leave the higher reinforcement cost.

@Evo: What cost more fuel? Shermans? They cost more fuel then Stugs and P4s, both of which get beat 1v1 to shermans (Or should if you can micro).

[Mistenth]

Good point Anticommie, I need to clarify here.

It's fairly balanced in 1v1s, but in large team games onwards, Allied tank superiority really shows, especially when AT guns back them up.

Infantry kill AT guns kill tanks right? So use Axis infantry!

Except that the Sherman wtfpwns Axis infantry.

So Shermans kill tanks and infantry. AT guns kill tanks.

German tanks are generally inferior to this combination, until Panthers and Tigers - which are insanely expensive and risk you losing map control to save up for. Pak38s aren't as effective.

If this isn't your experience, think about whether you've encountered these conditions:

[1]Large Team Games
[2]Equally skilled teams
[3]Mirror maps with equal resources

[evotech]

i dont play team games, everything i state is based on 1 vs 1, please specify that you are talking abuot large team games in your first post if otherwise.

alhtou recourse blitz comes to mind

[Mutters]

hmmm i dsiagree. in large team games its the axis that own in tank warfare i find. unless guys are still trying to stug the opponent to death which dont work anymore. i think they toned down the stugs armour slighlty. something has changed for the better.

[Ucross]

allies = more fuel less mp

axis = less fuel more mp

axis = best tanks end game


So in terms of just straight armor comparison, axis = win