[MOD] C2C: Firestorm over Kronus - !!Tau Update Pg 74!!

[MEGAzogg]

Sorry for returning to "pixee's case" but I'd like to note what there is one another, ultimate solution of this situation - after realese of the mod anyone can easely run AE and do any changes he would like to... Kuztom Made Mod!!! And no more need for bitching around this thread and make statements in such demanding tone.

P.S.
And medes - can we see some new eyecandy?

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

All I can do is read and shake my head.

[FourandTwenty]

Keep in mind, Megazogg, every day that goes by with no eyecandy means more to show when it happens. Or, it could mean that the servers near Medes suck badly... but in this case, I think it means more to show.

[MEGAzogg]

Keep in mind, Megazogg, every day that goes by with no eyecandy means more to show when it happens. Or, it could mean that the servers near Medes suck badly... but in this case, I think it means more to show.

Yea, I know, I know... but eyecandy is still good, yes? ;)

[medes]

eye candy eh?
alright, but its WIP so only look at your own risk

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1928/relic00185pu3.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00185pu3.jpg)

[MEGAzogg]

Wow! Nice angle! This must be phirania, is it?

[Col.Blitz]

This Piranha is awesome:D Big Beer for you Medes:beer:

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

It looks like its flying a little high, otherwise totally awesome.

[LNA-Big_D]

Maybe it is "jumping" and is about to land.

[pixxee]

Honestly, don't know yet. We're still in the modelling phase right now, and can't make proper balance changes till all races are done. Don't be overly concerned bout how Taus are gonna be balanced, mainly coz this mod is not another balance mod like DoWXP or DoWPro. It's main purpose as written on the frontpage is to implement new models ingame and give other modders easy access to them so they can balance things however they feel like.

Well, just keep in mind that the unit AI if it has an infantry targetting preference will always target the lowest hp/armor units in any cluster(or seems to from lay observation). That means Pathfinders already die instantly even if you keep them screened inside an infantry mass. The short range of Markerlight can make this even worse. If a Tau battle group is supposed to be pulled forward by it's Pathfinders, then making them into Cultists isnt the way to go.



i give up. i hope you do understand that we are willingly spending our free time making this mod free of charge. We're not relic, this is not another compulsary patch for DC, we're not charging you money, we're not forcing it down your throat. Why are you so angry? If you don't like this mod, please please please don't force yourself into playing it.

Forgive me for that. I think I got up on the wrong side of the bed that day. All I'm saying is, beware of overcompensation. Just because people beat their chests about Tau firewarriors being imba, doesn't mean they need to be nerfed into kittens. DowXP did this, kittenizing the best shooters until they aren't even as good as Tac marines anymore at range once tier 2 begins. Please don't do the same thing. Find other ways to make FW beatable than making them legally blind ( DowXP's short LOS) and accidentally carrying lasguns.


Pixee Its Closer To Codex God Damn It i already Private messaged you about it but you refuse to stop Posting crap ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT!!!!!
RAAAAH?


I don't get it... Tau are fragile? Broadside issues? God, I can waste any AI opponent playing as tau on Hard, using Skrimish AI.
That's DC. It isnt hard to beat the skirmish AI if you play on Hard. It still has that bad habit of sending one or two units at you at a time. And yes, they are fragile. You just don't get a chance to notice it as much if you have a FW mass going in normal DC, since most things die before they close unless they're vehicles/mechs. Killa Kans make fire warriors into gibs.


put random crap on vehicles/units and hope it's fluff-worthy
Well in yon fluff, the Tau use a universal chassis for all their vehicles, hence why Hammerheads look just like Skyrays which look just like Devilfish. Only the weapons they mount on the hardpoints seem to change. How then, is pulling off a Burst cannon and mounting a Fusion cannon straying too far?

Ultimately there's never a bad thing that can come from giving a player more choices to build strategy with, as long as every option carries equal benefit in some way while still being unique.

FW in vanilla DC are too strong vs other infantry ( other than assault termies anyways). Hence FW mass/Kauyon+krootox spam has too many advantages over other things you could do, and that's imba.

It's a shame it's not possible ( or is it?) for projectile weapons with extremely long range to suffer damage degradation over distance. That would balance tau out rather nicely.

[MEGAzogg]

Well, just keep in mind that the unit AI if it has an infantry targetting preference will always target the lowest hp/armor units in any cluster(or seems to from lay observation). That means Pathfinders already die instantly even if you keep them screened inside an infantry mass. The short range of Markerlight can make this even worse. If a Tau battle group is supposed to be pulled forward by it's Pathfinders, then making them into Cultists isnt the way to go.




Forgive me for that. I think I got up on the wrong side of the bed that day. All I'm saying is, beware of overcompensation. Just because people beat their chests about Tau firewarriors being imba, doesn't mean they need to be nerfed into kittens. DowXP did this, kittenizing the best shooters until they aren't even as good as Tac marines anymore at range once tier 2 begins. Please don't do the same thing. Find other ways to make FW beatable than making them legally blind ( DowXP's short LOS) and accidentally carrying lasguns.


RAAAAH?


That's DC. It isnt hard to beat the skirmish AI if you play on Hard. It still has that bad habit of sending one or two units at you at a time. And yes, they are fragile. You just don't get a chance to notice it as much if you have a FW mass going in normal DC, since most things die before they close unless they're vehicles/mechs. Killa Kans make fire warriors into gibs.


Well in yon fluff, the Tau use a universal chassis for all their vehicles, hence why Hammerheads look just like Skyrays which look just like Devilfish. Only the weapons they mount on the hardpoints seem to change. How then, is pulling off a Burst cannon and mounting a Fusion cannon straying too far?

Ultimately there's never a bad thing that can come from giving a player more choices to build strategy with, as long as every option carries equal benefit in some way while still being unique.

FW in vanilla DC are too strong vs other infantry ( other than assault termies anyways). Hence FW mass/Kauyon+krootox spam has too many advantages over other things you could do, and that's imba.

It's a shame it's not possible ( or is it?) for projectile weapons with extremely long range to suffer damage degradation over distance. That would balance tau out rather nicely.
Oh no... Not again... Seriously pixee - you should coop with that guy, Axel_of_Sweden (the one with strange obsession for Leman Russ's turret). What a nice pair you will be...

[VenerableDread]

Pixxee, stop the bitchin' or we'll do the bitchin' ourselves.

Where's the Commissar?

[Kou Uraki]

didnt medes already do a codex commissar? or was that kjon or havoc...:confused:

[LNA-Big_D]

I think he means a certain person on this Message Board

[MEGAzogg]

didnt medes already do a codex commissar? or was that kjon or havoc...:confused:
I think that VenerableDread was asking about FinalDeath.

And pixee, I think you worry too much about tau - I read your posts in DowXP thread I just don't understand your point. Today I was playing DowXP 2vs2 1 AI and me as tau and two AI as orks on Outpost map (survailal mode, then AI attacks with swarms of units). I wasted tones of Killa Kans and literally hundreds of orks using 2 squads of pathfinders with rail guns + 1 squad of attack drones + 2 devilfishes and 3 squads of fire warriors + drone harbinger + hammerhead. The poor orks were dieing before they get any chance to get closer to my units...

So IMO the main problem here is not in balance issues of tau of this still to be released C2C mod or DowXP mod, but in YOUR OWN SKILLS. It seems that you just don't know how to play.

[wolfshadow]

I see pixxee point: He's saying fine, nerf Tau FW, but be careful how its done. Fluff wise and TT stat wise, Tau Pulse rifles out range and out damage Space marines Bolters by 20%. (approx). If you want to nerf 'em, do it with armour values/ damage they can take etc. Fire warriors should excell at ranged combat, but suck very large at CC.

[medes]

balance discussion in a C2C thread? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

One thing i know is that no single balancing can accomodate everyone's needs, which is the reason we choose to release the source luas for this mod once its done. So if you don't like how it's balanced just load up the AE and do whatever you want.

[Master222]

So if you don't like how it's balanced just load up the AE and do whatever you want.
And that's what i like. Give us the models, and leave all the balancing (or unbalancing in my case :D ) to us!

[MEGAzogg]

And that's what i like. Give us the models, and leave all the balancing (or unbalancing in my case :D ) to us!
And give them to us quickly medes or... or... or we will unleash pixee onto you and also summon Axel_of_Sweden for support and they will torture you for eternity with their moans 'bout tau nerfing and vanilla leman russ turret's true beauty.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Me:Hi,I`m new here.I`m Skrakar.
Everybody:Hey.
Me:Excuse me,ChaosReigns,can I steal your title of "pain in the ass" for a few moments?
ChaosReigns:Sure.
Me:Thanks.(evil grin)

I have many suggestions for you,Medes.
For Chaos:Could you make some additional variations for possessed marines(like double arms or doble tentacles) and maybe add chaos warhounds.
For Orks:Please add kommandos,oil grots to help out big mek,variations for stormboyz(some new schemes for their rocket and various weapons like axes and chainswords),stikk bommaz,slaver with grot gang...
For Tau:pirahna skimmer,sniper drones and please do something about Ethereal`s damage.
For Eldar:As somebody suggested earlier,add autarch,wave serpent,striking scorpions,shining spears,swooping hawks,war walker,wraithguard and variations for all of their warriors.
...aaand I`ll update later.

[Gladius1000]

A few Questions(little ones)

Will there be a New Apacothery Model and/or Function (like maby regaining half the req spend on SM by taking the Gene seed from the "Meat Gibs)

Will Chaos be getting Traitor Guard and/or new models for Cultists?

Any love for the Orkz on da way?:(

Thanks for your time if you answer any of them.

[Woolly]

The only unit we really need is a sentinel codex! :D

[VenerableDread]

Deciever for the Necrons? Mwahahahaha...

[Master222]

Will there be a New Apacothery Model and/or Function (like maby regaining half the req spend on SM by taking the Gene seed from the "Meat Gibs)

Gladius1000 that's a briliant idea! And it would be more codex wise. Only the model should be a little tweaked for it. Mede should add a reductor and narthecium. Anyway it's great idea, and maybe some other mod could use it to!

[ChaosReigns]

medes I'm telling you if you want to make the Word Bearers "codex correct" so to speak they need to have great masses of Cultists. The health of each Cultist should be lowered slightly and you should take away all heavy weapon options as according to the Word Bearers it slows them down, however to stay true to the Word Bearers philosophy the Cultist squads should be able to reinforce to 20 in tier 2/3. Then they would really be meat shields, oh and take away the Aspiring Champion and add a human(ie. not Chaos Space Marine) leader(if you decide to add any leader).

And I hate to be a nag but DAEMON PRINCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh crap, I've been tagged pain in the ass, I feel so
unloved, oh God...lol, just kidding, just trying to put Skrakar on a guilt trip, lol

Oh, and medes relic units should be buffed as well because curretly they're not all that they're cracked up to be.

[Warlord Skrakar]

I`m sorry if I have hurt your feelings,ChaosReigns.Jokes never killed anybody.To feel more loved,I really like Annihilation mod.
And a new update on suggestions:
For Imperial Guard:Ratlings,rough riders and some variations for IG leaders.
For Tau:I meant pirahna skimmer,but something bugged out.
For Space Marines:Maybe some Deathwatch guys(they are space marines aren`t they,just like grey knights),techmarines,land raider crusader,bikes,Emperor`s champion,some helmetless marines and helmeted sargeants.
Chaos again:chaos dreadnought,Tzeench`s flamers and screamers,furies,variations for horrors,nurglings,plaguebearers,daemonettes with or without steeds and an option that the chaos lord(now real dark apostle) has a chance to become chaos spawn instead of daemon prince.And their bikes.
Orks again:difference between ork dreadnought and killa kan(killa kan has some heavy ranged weapon instead of one arm),those groty things(kannon,lobba,zzap gun etc.),warbike,new wartrakks.
I apologize to Medes if some things I suggested for Chaos aren`t codexy for Word Bearers,`cause I don`t like Chaos Undivided too much.

[ChaosReigns]

Sorry Skrakar, on the contrary, I make fun of myself all the time when I do something stupid and you're right jokes never killed anyone. Believe it or not I'm not sensitive at all and I was kidding too. Don't worry about it. But hey, I did put you on a guilt trip did I not?;)

Actually medes has helmeted sergeants(I think) and he's doing a Chapter Champion. Is there a difference between that and an EC?

May I do the concept art for the Daemon Prince?

[Blackwolf]

And that's what i like. Give us the models, and leave all the balancing (or unbalancing in my case :D ) to us!

I may have missed something on the way (most certainly)...

But since when is proper balancing a piece of cake you can do in a lunch break?
:soul:

And i'm pretty sure there are ppl who like to get a complete mod instead of single models which need to be injected and balanced first all on their own. The comments on the C2C thread speak for themselves there.

As far as i have expierenced, it is a heck of a lot work to create a proper fair balance and i'm grateful for every mod-team which releases a proper balanced mod! That'll saves months of trouble of trial n' error for any less expierenced users and I bet i'm not the only one who thinks that way.

But right now it seems that ppl who don't have the time to do their own balancing don't deserve to play with new models... well fine if it is that way.... not nice but, ok.... if those are the rules

Just my :twocents:

[Warlord Skrakar]

I think he made helmeted sargeants only for close combat veterans.I`ll see if there`s some difference between EC and CC on games workshop web page right about...now.

Crap!I can`t find Emperor`s Champion!

[Master222]

Blackwolf you say yourself that balancing is a long, and difficult process. Don't you think that for a mod that's aiming more for singeplayer balancing should be on the first place? Especially when medes team is probably small and has a lot of work with the models allready. And don't forget that usually no matter how much work is put into balance someone will still be dissapointed with it. Plus the most important part - Everybody can edit values in LUA's or RGD's but only a small group of people is able to model/texture/anim models. Medes will have to put some values for the new units, and I'm pretty sure they'll not be very unbalanced. All you'll have to do is run the mod play each race, then change a thing of too. I'm sure it will not take month's but few day's, eventually weaks. So don't be so hot on balance it's not the priority here.

[ChaosReigns]

*ChaosReigns starts frothing at the mouth like a psycopath*

need...updates :D

[Warlord Skrakar]

Aaah.Found it on Wikipedia.Emperor`s Champion is a single unit,a marine who had a vision of Emperor of Holy Terra and anointed by Chaplains.He wears Armour of Faith and bears Black Sword.His duty is to seek out enemy champions and leaders, and challenge them to single combat.

ChaosReigns,please,calm yourself.

You boyz a` too `ealty.I`m leavin`.

[Blackwolf]

Plus the most important part - Everybody can edit values in LUA's or RGD's but only a small group of people is able to model/texture/anim models.

:elephant: I should be lucky to belong to that small group then?

Anyway that doesn't change the fact that balancing is most tricky and for ME it's a problem that is not to underestimate ... if one race can produce a unit that simply takes out everything an enemy can produce... just by spamming enough. Then we have a serious imba problem and it's not a matter of taste or gameplay.

I know that Medes is balancing this mod for singleplayer and there's nothing wrong about that because Elite units aren't available for the single player game anyway right now. But i'm looking a bit more over the fence here.

Instead of everybody brewing their own soup why not gathering and creating a balancing mod for the new (and old) C2C models? Or even a mod that extends the races with ALL available C2C models? That would eliminate many questions on the C2C thread on how to install the models. What's so wrong with it? If everybody could do that, it should take no time to make the mod even WITHOUT altering the whole gameplay.

STANDARDS we need STANDARDS :awesome:


If there's no interest in that at all anyway, i'll finally give up and turn my attention to other games for a good while.
:banana:

[medes]

Instead of everybody brewing their own soup why not gathering and creating a balancing mod for the new (and old) C2C models? Or even a mod that extends the races with ALL available C2C models? That would eliminate many questions on the C2C thread on how to install the models. What's so wrong with it? If everybody could do that, it should take no time to make the mod even WITHOUT altering the whole gameplay.
dude, Firestorm won't be released in Lua format only, i wouldn't need a new thread for that. The main release will hopefully come with an installer that would implement the mod as a complete mod in your DC directory. Yes, we'll try and make some effort for balancing but as i said earlier one balancing won't fit with everyone's liking. Thats the reason the Source Luas will also be available for download, just incase you don't like how we balance things.

[LNA-Big_D]

With the great disliking of the new IG captian, would we be seeing General Sturnn agian?
(maybe with wargear?)

[Blackwolf]

Yes, we'll try and make some effort for balancing but as i said earlier one balancing won't fit with everyone's liking. Thats the reason the Source Luas will also be available for download, just incase you don't like how we balance things.

If it doesn't overpower one race i WILL like it :)

But i remember you said the mod might be too imba for skirmish-games, and it's still mentioned at the first page. So is that obsolete then? (maybe it was mentioned before already and i just don't saw it)
If so i would be a happy happy person and will be longing even more eagerly to a release of FIRESTORM OVER KRONUS :Hail:

[Exemplar]

With the great disliking of the new IG captian, would we be seeing General Sturnn agian?




The Dark Crusade Imperial Guard commander isn't that bad (from far away atleast). Other than his voice maybe, it seems fine to me.

But I would'nt mind seeing Sturnn or a "new" C2C captain either.

[Randy]

Yeah, that voice isn't the most intimidating or "commanding" is it? Would I fight for a guy who sounded like that? LOL nope.

[ChaosReigns]

The Commissar's voice is much better, even this heretic could be scared into fighting for a commissar. I especially like the line: "I will have someone's head for this!" To bad it's only used in the campaign.

[pixxee]

YOUR OWN SKILLS. It seems that you just don't know how to play.
I was talking about Broadsides having no target preferences in vanilla DC and as such, they were blasting at Sluggas instead of Kans, which they need to be firing at in that tier of the game. in Vanilla you either have broadsides, or upgraded SS at that stage to deal with those landspeeders+dreads/hellhounds/kans/enemy tau drones and the like. With Broads not wanting to target vehicles, you're really just left with FW mass and a prayer, or upgraded SS.. which doesnt always work out, if they can't stay infiltrated. Again, this is in vanilla DC.



drone harbinger + hammerhead.
Yeah, you really should spend more time reading before you counterflame me. Again, I was talking about Broadsides. Hammerhead is floating death in DowXP and more than good enough to fight Kans with. I'm imagine that would be obvious, given Hammerhead is T4 and all.


And that's what i like. Give us the models, and leave all the balancing (or unbalancing in my case :D ) to us
I guess I can live with that. I'm of the sort that can never escape the feeling I'm cheating if I play a mod I create myself however..


Medes, have you given any thought to what I said about how the unit AI specifically targets Pathfinders?

[MEGAzogg]

I was talking about Broadsides having no target preferences in vanilla DC and as such, they were blasting at Sluggas instead of Kans, which they need to be firing at in that tier of the game. in Vanilla you either have broadsides, or upgraded SS at that stage to deal with those landspeeders+dreads/hellhounds/kans/enemy tau drones and the like. With Broads not wanting to target vehicles, you're really just left with FW mass and a prayer, or upgraded SS.. which doesnt always work out, if they can't stay infiltrated. Again, this is in vanilla DC.



Yeah, you really should spend more time reading before you counterflame me. Again, I was talking about Broadsides. Hammerhead is floating death in DowXP and more than good enough to fight Kans with. I'm imagine that would be obvious, given Hammerhead is T4 and all.


I guess I can live with that. I'm of the sort that can never escape the feeling I'm cheating if I play a mod I create myself however..


Medes, have you given any thought to what I said about how the unit AI specifically targets Pathfinders?
Pixee I admire the amount of time and effort you've made to improve Broadsides... really. But, I think you should post in some kind of "Next 10 (100,1000) things I'd like next PATCH to fix" thread, not in this thread.
I mean that the Firestorm even didn't get released yet, but you already begin to cry about balance and every time I check this thread for the new info, I'm forced to read all your mambo-jumbo about how bad are broadsuits and other tau stuff are.

[pixxee]

So says an Ork player. You stick to what you love, I'll stick to the Tau that I love :P

[Be'Lakor]

Pixee no offense but if keep on losing your pathfinders your obviously not a good tactician for using pathfinder against the AI. You must use the pathfinders abilities weaknesses and srenghts to your advantage. I play Tau on hard (could play on harder or insane but that just seems like cheating by the PC to me) and my pathfinders have an easy time while doing their job to perfection.

Heck I've played the skirmish AI and still had an easy time protecting my pathfinders while they still do their job to perfection...

Anyway back ontopic for me
What have you got planned in the way of daemons Medes as Undivided (aka Word Bearers, Black Legion to name the major ones) have access to Khorne daemons (bloodletters and khornate hounds (yep Khorne Hounds are daemons), Slaneesh daemons (mounted and unmounted daemonettes), Tzeentch daemons (Horrors and Flamers), Nurgle daemons (nurglings, plaguebearers). Also don't get me started on if your going to include plauge marines, beserkers, rubric marines and sound marines in the mod.

If you do they are classed as elites as to an undivided army, as only a lord bearing the mark of khorne can take khornate options as troop choice just for an example.On side note if you need any help I should be free to help around a bit...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[pixxee]

I play Tau on hard
You could have stopped right there. :P

All I'm saying, is that the AI knows to shoot PFs.

[medes]

lol, here we go again

[pixxee]

Isnt any going, people keep baiting me and I bite. It's the way of things.

Question Medes: Tau light vehicles. Anything planned besides devilfish?

[medes]

Question Medes: Tau light vehicles. Anything planned besides devilfish?
yeah, it's pretty close to completion already so no use keeping it secret anymore.

Devil Fish can upgrade pulse carbines to smart missiles

Pirahna Light Skimmer can be used for hit and run vs vehicles (right now it needs a little micromanaging that bit, but we'll see)

Tetra Light Skimmer is tier 1 can be build from HQ, uses quick recharge marker light, becomes stealth in tier 2. Can laze vehicle targets for off map seeker missile strike in tier 2. Can also uncap strat points

Sniper drone squad (if you call that a vehicle)

[pixxee]

Devil Fish can upgrade pulse carbines to smart missiles
Wheee, early AV options! Happy me.


Pirahna Light Skimmer can be used for hit and run vs vehicles (right now it needs a little micromanaging that bit, but we'll see)
hmmm. Fast attack vehicles would be cooler if maps were 1024 otherwise they seem to need to be massed ( Landspeeder mass as example) to have a real impact. I don't know how you feel about it, but what if Piranhas could decap strat points like IG Sentinels/necron Wraiths can? DoW Tau has no real harasser unit unless you consider Stealthsuits to fullfil that role. They're basically just light hovercraft to zip around Pathfinders in the fluff aren't they?


Tetra Light Skimmer is tier 1 can be build from HQ, uses quick recharge marker light, becomes stealth in tier 2. Can laze vehicle targets for off map seeker missile strike in tier 2. Can also uncap strat points
This just reads sexy. Tier 1 vehicle though makes me wonder.. will the power cost be low?
I guess the uncapping bit sort of makes what I asked about Piranhas a little pointless. Hrm.


Sniper drone squad (if you call that a vehicle)
Any more info on this?

[Warlord Skrakar]

medes,please,do something about ork melee damage!They`re swarm melee race,for love of Gork!Relic said in first DoW that they are stronger than any human in hand to hand combat.Besides,Flash Gits have too cool attack and finishing animations for only 10-15 melee damage.
And lower ranged damage of Shootas,because in later stages of the game they`re somewhat too strong for an Ork with piece of junk in his hands.I don`t mind ranged damage of Flash Gits(look at the size of their bullets).
Don`t you dare forgetting `Ard Boyz! :ebil:

[FourandTwenty]

To Warlord Skrakar: Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Medes is a Chaos fan, and I know I am. Chaos is getting plenty of attention, and I'm a Word Bearers player (so I know Codex). Edit: This was to an earlier post.... curses.

To ChaosReigns: While the Cult of Chaos is the staple of the Word Bearers, I got the impression the non-Marine members would be stuck in the buildings, generating anti-faith to summon more battle-worthy Daemons. What made you think Cult troops would be heavy battle usage? I though that was more Alpha Legion's style, and the Cultists in DC were Tier 1 "filler" allies from the LatD Codex.

PM me if you want to keep it off the thread, but since it's a possible build discussion, I thought it might be relevant.

Pixxee: Tau are not my favorite, but I'm pretty sure the Piranha is the armed skimmer crewed by two FireWarriors. In TT, it can be armed with Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster, or Missile Pack (and maybe one other thing).
The Tetra is the jetbike for Pathfinders.
Otherwise I seriously borked my research and modelled them wrong...

[medes]

hmmm. Fast attack vehicles would be cooler if maps were 1024 otherwise they seem to need to be massed ( Landspeeder mass as example) to have a real impact. I don't know how you feel about it, but what if Piranhas could decap strat points like IG Sentinels/necron Wraiths can? DoW Tau has no real harasser unit unless you consider Stealthsuits to fullfil that role. They're basically just light hovercraft to zip around Pathfinders in the fluff aren't they?
not really, those are tetras. Pirahna can upgrade the burst cannon to fusion blaster, and MAYBE if i can get the damn ability to work correctly, give them a pair of seeker missiles as an upgrade. So far i've found them to quite useful for taking out artilleries especially in the IG stronghold mission. Oh, and remember nothing is final and everything is applicable to change when other races gets their new toys.


To Warlord Skrakar: Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Medes is a Chaos fan, and I know I am. Chaos is getting plenty of attention, and I'm a Word Bearers player (so I know Codex).

sure am

[Warlord Skrakar]

And another thing(now for Tau).Could you make Greater Knarloc upgradable(they`re often used as weapon platforms like Krootox)?
One thing more.I saw some winged Kroot miniatures in army list.What are those?

You could do something about AI of IG.There`s something really messed up.How can they always find Stealthsuits even when I`m not in combat?!

Just a thought.Wargear for secondary commanders.

In almost every mod I downloaded(Khorne bless Movie Marines Mod),nobody used medes` new termies.Why?

[Be'Lakor]

Considering it's the AI Warlord Skrakar I'm not sure if that can be fixed in my opinion sine the PC has to run the engine and play the AI. So probally the AI may cheat in ways by knowing where your infiltrated men since the PC doubles as AI and the engine.

@pixee
My AI must be really different as I gave it the option to kill a commander, fire warrior or a pathfinder on ceasefire and who did they go for??? the commmander. Tried it with other units and they seem to pick the unit that posses the most threat over time with the weapons and stuff it has.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Warlord Skrakar]

Last thing for today:some ranged upgrades for Nobz and fix Big Mek`s bug(his "claw" becomes an axe while teleporting).

[Worsle]

To ChaosReigns: While the Cult of Chaos is the staple of the Word Bearers, I got the impression the non-Marine members would be stuck in the buildings, generating anti-faith to summon more battle-worthy Daemons. What made you think Cult troops would be heavy battle usage? I though that was more Alpha Legion's style, and the Cultists in DC were Tier 1 "filler" allies from the LatD Codex.

From what I remember Word Bearers and the Alpha Legion have a bit of a rivalry as they both make extencive use of cultists. Alpha legion uses them as part of their war on all frounts while the Word Bearers like sending them in as massed cannon fodder (to over clock their kill counters). I might have that wrong but its how I remember things, also cultists are not in the LatD codex they only exist as part of the Alpha Legion for TT.

[MEGAzogg]

So says an Ork player. You stick to what you love, I'll stick to the Tau that I love :P
Its SM, IG, Necrons and sometimes CSM and Tau I play all the time. No orks, sorry.

[medes]

Oh one more thing i forgot to add. The main reason i think as to why this mod won't be balance to everyones liking is because we're balancing the races according to the thier factions in the campaign.

Chaos will be Word Bearers, lotsa daemon but less or no cult marines (i dunno, fourandtwenty's the expert on WB here).

Space Marines will be Blood Ravens, more sneaky like less armour and no Annihilators.

Eldars will be Ulthwee, more psychic potent units was it, i dunno i'll ask around bout that one.

IG will play more cadian, also will have to look into that.

Orks are Clan Gorgutz..... We may have to use another Clan's fluff for this one.

Necrons are Necrons, nothing can be done there.

Taus are, unfortunately, T'AU. Not a very unique sept compared to the hot blooded Vior'La or highly disciplined Sa'cea sept.

[Axel_of_sweden]

What, no Annahilators at all, just destructors

[medes]

Destructors still get Lascannon side sponson upgrades, just no twinlinked lascannon for the main gun

[Be'Lakor]

The craftworld of Ulthwé is a highly militaristic craftworld. Its people have long been accustomed to warfare, for Ulthwé is situated perilously close to the Eye of Terror - the warped part of the galaxy which is the stronghold of Chaos.

Ulthwé is known amongst the craftworlds for the many Eldar there who follow the Path of the Seer and the Path of the Warlock, possibly due to the craftworld's proximity to the Chaos shrouded Eye of Terror. The Ulthwé need their numerous Farseers to keep watch for the many and varied guises of Chaos but those from other craftworlds often hint that it is the Eye of Terror itself which has tainted the inhabitants of Ulthwé and exaggerated their psychic potential.

Constant warfare has hardened its people, not just the Aspect Warriors, but all of Ulthwéan society. The need for vigilance in the face of their greatest enemy has led to the creation of a standing force of Guardians known as the Black Guardians of Ulthwé, after the colour of their uniforms. Thanks to this large force of permanently mobilised troops the craftworld of Ulthwé has endured constant warfare for hundreds of years.

Ulthwe means the 'Song of Ulthanash' and its symbol is the Eye of Isha. This represents the tears shed by the goddess Isha for her mortal children the Eldar. The colour of Ulthwé is black, the Eldar colour of mourning, and it is usual for Eldar to wear this colour. Vehicles are also likely to be coloured black, with bright overlaying camouflage in bone or red.



that be what Uthlwé has to offer Medes, I'm pretty good at the fluff stuff so if ya need to know stuff on Space Marines, Chaos, Eldar and other races I'm pretty broad on my knowledge of them. I know most about Dark Angels (got the codex, will get new codex out in feb), Codex: Chaos with chaos being one of my fav races and a specilised on Eldar, that or if ya need some coding pm me.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

Edit: More Info



http://uk.games-workshop.com/library/letters/cloister-u.giflthwé is known amongst the craftworlds for the many Eldar there who follow the Path of the Seer and the Path of the Warlock. This is believed to be due to the craftworld's proximity to the Chaos shrouded Eye of Terror. The Ulthwé make the claim that they need their numerous Farseers to keep watch for the many and varied guises of Chaos but those from other craftworlds often hint that it is the Eye of Terror itself which has tainted the inhabitants of Ulthwé and exaggerated their psychic potential. Whatever the reasons for this trend, when the warriors of Ulthwé go to battle they are always accompanied by many of their powerful psykers.

Of all the craftworlds, I believe that it is Ulthwé that interferes the most with the affairs of other races. The craftworld's many psykers can foresee future events with a greater precision and for a longer duration than those of other craftworlds. Led by the infamous Eldrad Ulthran, the Seer Council seems to be constantly diverting the course of history to their own ends and, consequently, warriors from Ulthwé are frequently sent on missions to subtly alter the balance of fate in battles that will ultimately concern their home.

I would guess that we ourselves have suffered from this callous manipulation many times in the past. It is from these enigmatic and often seemingly contradictory conflicts that the Eldar have earned their reputation for random and capricious behaviour.

A certain number of my predecessors widely (some might say wildly) attributed some of our most cataclysmic conflicts to interference from Ulthwé. Amongst these are named the second Battle for Armageddon, the Sanapan Scouring, the Mortis Annihilation and the Third Coming of Orian.

There is yet hope though, for this continuing reliance on psykers has left the craftworld lacking in the skilled Aspect Warriors - the path of the Seer is the longest and most dangerous, leaving little time for an Eldar to tread the Path of the Warrior. To compensate for this, Ulthwé maintains a considerable standing army of Guardians (usually Guardian units are raised as and when they are required, much like our own planetary militias). The Black Guardians are known throughout the regions around the Eye of Terror, both as saviours and dreaded foes.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Aren`t Gorgutz` Orks a part of Evil Sunz clan?
Again with suggestions:
For Tau:Vulture Kindred(Kroot winged warriors adapted for short flights-maybe Tau version of Raptor or Assault Marine),Tracker Kindred(Kroots who ride normal Knarlocs) and little constructive criticism-I think new Shas`ui should have less deep "I" mark between his eyes
For Orks:Boar Boyz(I know they`re feral Orks,but Gorgutz could defeat their bosses and take over) or even Looted Basilisk
For IG:better officers(their current squad leaders don`t look tough enough as TT)
For SM:maybe a little variation among sargeants(different power weapons) and tank crews should be always red(adepts of Machine God)with their chapter insignia

[Worsle]

Some feral ork stuff is not to bad an idea as Gorgutz took over the local feral ork clans. Though he is not part of the evil sunz, just the evil sunz have a lot of flashgitz if I remember right Gorgutz seems to have his own independent goup.

You Chaos sounds right to me any way so planning to add diffrent types of daemons to the game?

[Warlord Skrakar]

OK,so I was wrong,but why do he and his lads have Evil Sunz scheme in WA and "missiony" parts of DC campaign?!

And Evil Sunz have a lot of warbikes,Bad Moons have a lot of Flash Gitz.

[Be'Lakor]

Considering the clan Gorgutz starts off in is Evil Sunz, his banner and scheme are Evil Sunz and he seems to like to fight like the Evil Sunz (well as Evil Sunz as you can get in DoW) I think we may presume he could of been\is part of the evil sunz.

Fluff Inaccuracies (just to set the record straight and clear any doubt and stuff)
I did a full scan of the CtC: Firestorm Kronus thread and found that the Word Bearer fluff is way outdate compared to the latest codex: CSM. Word Bearers worship as a pantheon and essentially use the rules of undivided. Although the Word Bearers use massive ammounts of daemons in their strategies they in no way disendorse cults. Infact according to codex: CSM Word Bearer fluff the Word Bearers actually vastly support heretical cults and erect extravagant cathedrals to worship their patheon of chaos gods. So to the contrary Word Bearers in the latest fluff actually endorse cults it's just that the Word Bearers see theirselves as being higher in the ranks of chaos then almost any daemon (greater daemons are not so greatly thrown away). So the reason why the Word Bearers use massive ammmounts of daemons is becuase the find theirselves more precious then the daemons of chaos. (source from Codex: CSM latest edition)

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Worsle]

Or my mistake the Evil Sunz are the kult of speed clan, Bad Moonz are known for their flashgitz. Oh well not like orks come up often enough for me to remember it all right. But he is not set up as a kult of speed at all I don't see mega armoured fitting in to well, he might just like the colours red ones do go faster after all.

[Be'Lakor]

I can, ya stick em in a truk rush into battle drop em off and get fighting. I could give ya a full run down on the evil sun fighting style and stuff but that mean I would have to dig through my collection of fluff\codex stuff. The primary objective of a cult of speed from memory is to get into battle as quick as possible, so while in DoW orks don't have everything necassary to be a cult of speed or are programmed to be a cult of speed they easily can be kinda one in DoW.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Worsle]

The Word Bears worship chaos as a whole so means no cult marines dedicated to a single god, not cults in the group of people worshiping chaos sense.

[Warlord Skrakar]

To help out medes in his holy task to bring Ulthwe to DC,I quote Wikipedia again:

In times of war, Ulthwé employs its militia of Black Guardians and Guardians as its army's backbone. Supporting these troops will be assortments of vehicles and elite units, flowing with advanced Eldar technology. Ulthwé also employs it's large number of psykers on the battlefield, sometimes in the form of a Seer Council consisting of multiple Farseers and Warlock Bodyguards. The Seer Council or Seers will use their potent powers to destroy the minds of their enemies, shape the battle's course to their favour and perform other tasks to ensure their victory. However, every time a Seer or Warlock delves into the Warp to harness its power to their favour, they risk their own minds and many have been lost to the terrors of the Warp which prey on the mind.
Ulthwé may strike fast and hard in the form of an Ulthwé Strike Force, a highly mobile entity of Ulthwé's power in which units are highly mobilised by utilising jetbikes and other fast vehicles which enables Ulthwé to strike quickly and decisively through warp gates and vanish as quickly as they appeared.

After reading this article on Wikipedia,I got an idea.Some powers for Warlocks which can backfire and kill them(like Strip Soul which can kill Psyker).

[Be'Lakor]

Word Bearers are classed as having the mark of undivided meaning they can field any undivded army selection options (such as furies). Along with that undivided (yes that also means Word Bearers) can field any god specific (so that mean any Khorne, Slaneesh, Tzeentch or Nurgle) troop or daemon pack choice, although for selection purposes under the mark of undivided these are classed as elites and only a maximium of 3 are allow in TT (and yes you can mix and match and have a khornate squad fighting with a tzeentch squad fighting with a nurgle squad). Daemons in the case of the Word Bearers have a special rule that makes all daemon, god specific or not count as troop choices so in TT you can have upto a maximium of 9 troop choices since the special rule for the Word Bearers allows 9 troops choices.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Warlord Skrakar]

What about Slaaneshi types?mmmm...Daemonette on Dark Steed at sundown...
D`oh!I did it again!

[Worsle]

No the word bearers can only have the mark of chaos undivided, daemons are the only exception to this I have the codex with me too. While the codex rules are not always 100% in-line with the fluff, like I would like to see them get cultists as a unit, in this case I think it makes sense. They worship chaos as a whole, that is what they are taught by their dark apostles so they are not going to become a small cult of khorne dedicated berserks.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Oh,and one thing directly to medes:
Where`z me orky ladz and da grots fer kickin` `round?!We`z got sum `oomies to stomp `ere on Kronus!

[Be'Lakor]

mmm forgot to say that the khorne units can fight alongside Tzeentch and Nugle units was an example. But yeah Slaneesh units can fight along Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch units and vica versa in an undivided (yes that means Word Bearers) army.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Finaldeath]

pixxee is now banned from this thread. Pixxee; if you read this, do not post in this thread, you have been formally warned too.

[Be'Lakor]

yes they worship chaos as a whole (aka that is what undivided is, people worshiping chaos as a whole or pantheon) allows them to use beserkers, plague marines, rubric marines and sounds marines if they wish to.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Warlord Skrakar]

But Be`Lakor,don`t Slaaneshi and Khornate type daemons hate each other?Slaanesh was going to kill Khaine all by himself and Khorne wanted to steal that frag and Khaine bursted in zillion parts which today become Avatars.Since then,they don`t like each other one bit.

[Worsle]

Again while being undivided it does not mean you can field cult marines, none of the undivided armies but the black legion ones can (black legion being the basic codex) even though some of them should like berserkers for Iron Warriors. Word Bearer Marines can only bare the mark of chaos undivided, the codex is very clear on this (it is the first line of their rules).

On a different track the wild orks codex might be a thing to look at for ork units, the squigoth is already in but Wired Boyz and Squig Herdas are intresting units if nothing else.

[Be'Lakor]

EDIT #1: Bearing the mark of undivided is all you need to be able to follow the rules of undivided.

on a side note to what I was just saying Oblitorators are a cult and it is perfectly fine to field them in a Word Bearer army. I have seen plenty of Word Bearer army that use khorne beserkers and other god specific troops in their army selection.

On a side note to that: Word Bearers worship chaos and wouldn't defy the order of the chaos god for fear of their wrath. If the chaos gods say take three squads of three khorne beserkers the Word Bearers would take three squads of Word Bearers as unlike other legions who just use the powers of chaos to their advantage the Word Bearers worship the forces of chaos and do their bidding.

On a side note to that: I do belive the mod is going closer to the codecies (plural of codex) in this mod (but Medes does get the final call on it) so we are going by the codex more then going by the fluff otherwise watch out for UBER MARINES! lol rofl

On side note: Can't Wait to see what Orks get...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Warlord Skrakar]

OK,I`m feeling left out.WHAT ABOUT GODS WHO HATE EACH OTHER?!?!!How would Daemonettes react when they see Bloodletters ten feet away from them?Or the opposite...

[Be'Lakor]

EDIT #1: Problem Solved
Problem solved a Dark Apostle can only have a Accursed Crozius if he is upgraded to the mark of undivided. Which in this case means that the Word Bearers can follow the rules of undivided and can pick any god specific troop as an elite choice, use obliterator, raptors and other undivided choices.


Now their is an easy way to find out how Medes is going with this, I'll ask him if the Dark Apostle is upgrade with a mark of undivided if so Word Bearers can take everything I've said. If not then no cult units not undivided ones such as Raptors can be taken, unless the fit the rule as being a daemon pack of coarse.

Currently I'm working on the assumption that the Dark Apostle is upgrade to a mark of undivided. We shall see soon anyway...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Worsle]

on a side note to what I was just saying Oblitorators are a cult and it is perfectly fine to field them in a Word Bearer army. I have seen plenty of Word Bearer army that use khorne beserkers and other god specific troops in their army selection.

On a side note to that: Word Bearers worship chaos and wouldn't defy the order of the chaos god for fear of their wrath. If the chaos gods say take three squads of three khorne beserkers the Word Bearers would take three squads of Word Bearers as unlike other legions who just use the powers of chaos to their advantage the Word Bearers worship the forces of chaos and do their bidding.

On a side note to that: I do belive the mod is going closer to the codecies (plural of codex) in this mod (but Medes does get the final call on it) so we are going by the codex more then going by the fluff otherwise watch out for UBER MARINES! lol rofl

What I am saying is the codex "The only mark that may be assigned to models in a word bearer army is the mark of chaos undivided". It can get more certain that that for not being able to field beserkers, noise marines ect because you would need to use a mark other than the mark of chaos undivided. So in game terms you can't have a word bearers army with beserkers unless you do a counts as, and I find the idea that a legion that uses daemons and worships chaos as a whole would suddenly dedicate them selves to one god and you have to do that to be a cult marine.

Oblitorators and raptors are intresting sides to this, both count as the mark of undivided. Oblitorators are most likely undivided while raptors seem to worship a minor chaos god so are a little odd so I can't say I am found of them in a Word Bearer army but I can see why they would be left in.

As to why two gods who hate each other would let their daemons fight together there are a few reasons. Two that come to the top of my mind is a common goal (kill the Emperor) or not to let the other one get the upper hand by gaining more suporters.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Thanks Worsle for clearing that up.One more question and that`s it for today.I won`t be bugging you and Be`Lakor any more.
Can Word Bearers field Possessed Marines?If they`re not much fond of all kinds of chaos marines,can they make at least that kind of symbiosis?

[Be'Lakor]

No you only need a mark of khorne for Khorne Beserkers to be considered as troop choices, if they aren't lead by a lord with the same mark they are classed as elite choices according to the codex: CSM page 29. So Wold Bearers can use Beserkers, Rubric Marines, Plauge Marines and Noise Marines but they class as elites unless lead by a lord of the same mark as them. Since a Word Bearer can't use an other mark apart from undivided these selections can only ever count as elites.

Edit #1: Obliterators not even linked to a mark
Don't know who it was in first place suggested obliterators could only be selected by undivided but anyone (unless their rules forbid) can select obliterators.

[Worsle]

They can field them in game terms and in fluff terms I can seem them having any isues with them. It would be a way of climing the ladder of power I would guess, the only reason they don't field beserkers or any one like that is because they don't dedicate them selves to one god like some other legions do.

Be'lakor I am leaving this as it is unless you want to take it to the rules forum. You need the mark of khorne on your basic for them to be beserkers, you need the mark of nurgle on them to be plague marines ect. The rules for a word bearer army on page 43 stop that, what your talking about is a black legion style army where having a lord with the mark of khorne lets you field besekers as troops this is a diffrent thing.

I would also like to say sorry to Medes for being so off topic.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Thanks again Worsle.
Back to bugging medes.
To ChaosReigns-I`m sorry if I`m using your title of "pain in the ass" for too long.I promise you`re going to get it back soon.

[Be'Lakor]

well that was alot of bumps for the topic :lol: :lol: over nothing. Now that my adobe read v8 is working properly, since my pc finish defraging, and I'm full awake after not getting much sleep I can fully see i was wrong in some points. (yar damn disturbances in sleep patterns over last few weeks, damn early then late then mid day things)

But raptors and obliterator cults you can definately use in a Word Bearer army. Remind me to drink some caffine and have a shower and stuff to make sure I'm totally awake and can remember the proper fluff and codex rules... i really need to try and get back to my normal sleeping pattern asap.

Regards,
Be'Lakor

Edit #1: Well I'm all ready to go now and got my full brain capacity and ready and rearing to go now. luckily I got nothing to interupt my sleeping patterns now so I'll be able to not make a mistake like that again :lol: :lol:

[Worsle]

Never said they could not, said I have some isues with the idea of raptors in a word bearers army but not that they could not be used. The oblitorators on the other hand just seem to be a general chaos unit so I so no isues at all fluff wise or codex wise.

[Warlord Skrakar]

That`s the spirit guys.You`re friends again!
(Did that sound awesomely...retarded?)

[Be'Lakor]

@da orky avatar guy (can't remember his warboss title damn it lol rofl)

We were just having a really big fluff discussion over nothing after I finalyl woke up and realised fully wtf I had been saying.


Word Bearers Unit list: units Word Bearer's can use in TT

Dark Apostle (Hero) -> Daemon Prince
Chaos Sorceror (2nd Hero)
Greater Daemon (3rd Hero) (still checking this one but appears World Bearers can have Nurgle, Khorne, Tzeentch or Slaneesh greater daemon even though they are undivided)
Cultists (not really avaliable to Word Bearers in TT but heck a bunch of cultist dedicated to undivided helping the Word Bearers seems atleast a bit fluffy)
Chaos Space Marines
Havocs
Chosen\Chosen Terminators
Obliterators
Raptors (definately avaliable to Word Bearers as they only work for undivided)
Daemon Pack (From Nurgle-Undivided choices)(will list them all if ya want)
Chaos Bikes
Chaos Drednought
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider

Please note that I could of missed some stuff out and if so please feel free to tell me what...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[FourandTwenty]

@Be'Lakor: If you're talking about TT, look at page 40; only Alpha Legion has access to Cultists as a troop type.

I'm pretty sure we're planning to keep Cultists anyway as without them, only Nurglings would be an appropriate Tier 1 troop type, and that would suck. Mutants or Traitor Guard might be an appropriate substitute, but they'd be allies from LatD as well as more work as new units than they might be worth.

[Be'Lakor]

yeah I did know that, but like you said we all know capping might become a problem as you would have to build you barracks before you even get a squad that can cap a strat point. I should of pointed that out in my post, I'll do that now...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[ChaosReigns]

Be'lakor, sorry, I hate to be the fluff Daemon, but no. The only mark that may be assigned to models in a Word Bearers army is the mark of Chaos Undivided. That is an exact quote from the Chaos Codex on page 43. It's the first Word Bearers trait listed. You're thinking of the Black Legion which can field literally any type of unit with any mark. Since Plague Marines and Khorne Berzerkers are simply Chaos Marines with the mark of their specific God they cannot exist in a Word Bearers army.

Here's a quote that also comes directly from the codex which obviously proves that Cultists are okay: "The Word Bearers do not follow any one Chaos God but are dedicated to them as a pantheon. Their dedication is demonstrated by supporting HERETICAL CULTS and erecting cathederals to the Chaos Gods on worlds that fall to them."

I can't find it in the codex but I remeber hearing somewhere that while Cultists of the Alpha Legion are trained in the arts of stealth and sabotage and play a key role in the plans of Alpha Legion, the Word Bearers simply arm there Cultists with a knife and unleash them upon the intended planet by the thousands, often having them weaken the defenses of the enemy through virtue of sheer numbers and gaining a foot hold on the world before the main assault begins.

Even if this is not the case and I'm incorrect doesn't it seem logical that if the Word Bearers sponsor Cults and need the asistance of a horde of Cultists that the Cult leader would be happy to oblige lest he lose the funding which the Word Bearers send him.

Oh and in regards to Raptors and Obliterators they are listed in the codex as Undivided units so both troop types should be available to the Word Bearers.

Also, allow the Cultist squads to reinforce to 20 in tier 2, it'll make more sense and promote them to be used as meatshields. Of course to compensate and keep it balanced nerf each individual Cultist and don't allow any heavy weapons to be added to the squad. Lastly if you decide to keep a leader make it a Cult Champion rather than an Aspiring Champion as that is the listed name in the codex. Maybe take away Cultist infiltration aswell.

Lastly it is stated in the codex on page 43 as the Word Bearers second trait:"The Word Bearers may use any type of daemon".

[Mirage Knight]

Undivided Armies may normally choose "Cult Marines" bearing the mark of any Chaos God and use them as Elites - so long as those Elites don't bear Marks of differing Chaos Gods - i.e., you can't have a squad of Noise Marines and a squad of Berzerkers in the same army.

Word Bearers are different in that the only Mark their troops can carry is that of Undivided - that means they can't field Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, etc...They can still field Chosen Terminators and other Elites - in addition to being able to summon daemon packs associated with any of the 4 Chaos Gods.

[Be'Lakor]

Omg does Nobody Read The Last Bits Of Posts???????? I Already Said I wasn't clearly thinking properly and took back everything I said previously, Got That? Just Making Sure... (sorry for caps just making surer this is noticable)

on a side note: You just sort of repeated what Worsle said and we already figured out that I was cleary accidentally making fluff mistakes (stupid early mornings). We already cleared it out that Word Beaers can only carry the mark of Undivided and can only field no mark choices, such as plain CSMs, (with in the Word Bearer rules) undivided specific units such as raptors and Word Bearer specific units such as the Dark Apostle.

off topic but I finally finished downloading 3ds max 8 and got it actiavted into the full product insteed of the 30 day trial...

Regards,
Be'Lakor

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

I am sooooo lost, I just want pretty pictures of things to come. Medes, make me happy.

[FourandTwenty]

No doubt about the Word Bearers supporting cultists. Only debate is whether or not they'd believe the weaklings would serve better in the battlefield or in the temple; on the field, they'd die quick and do little, whereas in the temple they'd garner more of the "expendable" but effective Daemons.

Irregardless, they're sticking in the game, so enough of that.
I've experimented with upping the squad limit on cultists before, and I found them to still be fairly useless as meat shields late game, and cause massive pathing issues with their anarchic formation. I'd recommend against it, myself, and upgrade them to Mutants with late research. Or when the Greater Sacrificial Pit is built. Maybe both- mutation is good.

On a different note- Boarboys, Kommandos, different Mekboyz, Ork Artillery, Stikkbommas, Yoofs. What else might the Orks get?

I wonder how the Necron Lord on Skimmer possesses vehicles. If the Loota Boys could be made to do the same thing, that would work wonderfully...

[Warlord Skrakar]

To FourandTwenty:
Orks could get different sized Squiggoths(small or medium which carry only one big gun),a Wyrdboy(but somebody mentioned that earlier),feral Ork Trappas(making booby traps and stuff),Herdas with Squighounds...
I think I could go on and on until lunch time.
If Lootas would be made,I have a little suggestion.They could collect scrap metal from destroyed enemy vehicles and for period of time lower the cost of Ork buildings and vehicles(not sure if possible,but it would be nice to help out tiny Grots and Mekboyz).

To Be`Lakor:
I know you weren`t fighting,I was just kidding.You know...haha I wanted to sound stupid.

[Worsle]

Cultists being useless later on problems fits in well enough with the Word Bearers beliefs, I still need to look into it but they would have no qualms about sending them to their deaths to by them selves time or to try and wear down some ones defences, as they are perfectly able to summon daemons them selves.

As to orks I said before Wyrdboyz and squig herdas seem like fun parts of the feral ork list there is also the scorcha.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Wartrak Scorcha?Always wanted to see it ingame,but it`s two part vehicle.Even for medes(may Gork `n` Mork watch over him),this could prove very tricky.Warbuggy would be better for Gorgutz` mob.

New variation for Nobz-heads with gold teeth.
And maybe ability for Techpriests-fixing building from inside.

[medes]

Damn, you guys are looking far into the future making it hard for us to surprise you. Anyways, Lootas can be made thanks to Melooo for discovering random weapon codes. I guess fielding these guys would depend on your luck. Weapons they get might be in superb condition causing lotsa damage or really bad condition likely to cause backfire and stuff. Wyrd Boyz and kommandos would be a good choice, Wartrak Scorcha.... I've never heard of this one before. But lets not worry bout it too much, we'll get there in due time.

[Col.Blitz]

But what with Eldars (Autarch and more aspect warriors [Striking Scorpions or Swooping Hawks, maybe ask Shingouki for them??] and IG ideas

[Warlord Skrakar]

Here`s the link for Wartrak Scorcha:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/orks/gallery/13/

Hope it will help.

And another thing for Nobz to be more codexy-random back-poles.

[ChaosReigns]

DAE...MON PRINCE!!!...lol, kidding:).

Seriously though medes can I ask you something?

Any chance Sorcerer will get new spells or have Corruption buffed as it's kinda weak.

[medes]

certainly hope so. New weapons and synckills too maybe.

[Tovarich]

Hi,
I don't know if this would be "Codexly appropriate", but I had a suggestion for the Commander units of the SM (Force Commander,Chaplain and Librarian) :
Allow them to upgrade their armor to a Terminator version by doing a late Tier research at the Armory...What do you think?

[Warlord Skrakar]

Tovarich,I think medes was clear about that kind of wargear(No way,hose!).

[medes]

i've made it clear before, no terminator commanders. This is because TT termies looks awesome while relics termie makes me cry. Not worth the effort and i'm not interested.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Medes,what do you think about this upgrade for anti-infantry Tau Commander?
Taadaa-a shield(maybe you could give him Big Mek`s throw animation)

And if you don`t like Relic`s Termies,why don`t you make new ones?

[medes]

Taadaa-a shield(maybe you could give him Big Mek`s throw animation)
The new commander was actually designed based on Shas'O Rym
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9917/relic00196xd4.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00196xd4.jpg)

i'm not really sure what you mean by BigMek's throw animation though.


And if you don`t like Relic`s Termies,why don`t you make new ones?
because i'm not interested

[Warlord Skrakar]

Sorry,medes.I was thinking about that animation when Big Mek pushes back everyone in front of him with his uhhh...claw and Kustom Shoota(sometimes I`m bad with words).

And what do you think about small and medium Squiggoths from Feral Ork army list?

One more thing.Musicians of the Word Bearer legion-are they going to be attachable to squads or new kind of squad leaders when you make`em?

[Woolly]

Is that some suity commander? if true, will he have melee attack like the TT model?

[DarknessKnight]

We might help on that situation of the termies dude, but it wont be now now but we can help... :grouphug:

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

PRETTY PICTURES YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

..Sorry tehe.

[Worsle]

It is Farsight that has the melee weapon, Shas' o R'myr is a forgeworld model who I can't say I know much about but Medes' version of him is look very good.

[Tovarich]

i've made it clear before, no terminator commanders. This is because TT termies looks awesome while relics termie makes me cry. Not worth the effort and i'm not interested.
Ack, sorry, I didn't know.
Oh well nevermind, it's just that it lacks much "terminatorization" in modding content right now :/

[Warlord Skrakar]

In my previous post,I mentioned Word Bearer Musicians.I got carried away and talked about them like they`re already made.
Sooo,treat`em like a suggestion.

[Avatar Terminus]

Anyways, Lootas can be made thanks to Melooo for discovering random weapon codes. I guess fielding these guys would depend on your luck. Weapons they get might be in superb condition causing lotsa damage or really bad condition likely to cause backfire and stuff.

WOAH!
Are we talking randomised weapons on the model, or randomised weapons on the entity? The luck line seems to make me think it's the latter... I remember reading the new DC docs on the RDN wiki. How does this ability work?

[Warlord Skrakar]

A big(maybe huge)suggestion(consider it,please). :puppy:
Click this link and be amased by GW:

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/ogryns/default.htm

Pretty cool,huh? :awesome:

Am I bugging Firestorm Team or what?

[FourandTwenty]

I thought Musicians for Chaos Daemons were a unit in Fantasy only... I don't ever remember musicians in 40K. Not even crossovers in Necromunda. Anyway, no plans for them as far as I've heard.

[medes]

Are we talking randomised weapons on the model, or randomised weapons on the entity? The luck line seems to make me think it's the latter... I remember reading the new DC docs on the RDN wiki. How does this ability work?
Both model and entity, newly discovered code allows this.

[MEGAzogg]

medesssssssssss, I know that you don't like relic's terminator and don't want to mess with the damned model but maybe you at least could add some (or tones of) purity seals to them? They are soo ugly right now... Hell I even don't use them often because of their ugly look... I've tried to reskin them but... yes, yes your are right - they still looksssss ugly. Pleassssseeee, do something with that, or I will eat your brainssss with my moanssssss...

P.S.
Ohhh, and don't dare to change leman russ's turret, you blasphemer! It painsss me zooo much to see it at its current state. My little, poor leman russ, this evil guy, medes just rapes you, yesssss? Corrupted your pure, flawlesssss formssss, my darling. Ohhhhhh... ;)

P.P.S.
Sorry about leman russ, just joking - I couldn't resist.

[Avatar Terminus]

Both model and entity, newly discovered code allows this.
Aaaaawesome.

I... well. This is a dream come true.

[Warlord Skrakar]

To FourandTwenty:
Word Bearer Musicians(aka drummers)are part of their fluff.Word Bearers march into battle with sounds of drumms in the background.I found them on GW,so they`re probably codex-right.They really look like Fantasy ones,so you can be easily fooled.

[medes]

medesssssssssss, I know that you don't like relic's terminator and don't want to mess with the damned model but maybe you at least could add some (or tones of) purity seals to them? They are soo ugly right now... Hell I even don't use them often because of their ugly look... I've tried to reskin them but... yes, yes your are right - they still looksssss ugly. Pleassssseeee, do something with that, or I will eat your brainssss with my moanssssss...
yeah, we'll still add randomizations to the current termies, and a couple of weapons upgrades.

[Woolly]

Cyclones...

[MEGAzogg]

yeah, we'll still add randomizations to the current termies, and a couple of weapons upgrades.
Good to hear.

[wolfshadow]

Lightning claws~! Lightning clasw~! PLEAAAAASSSSEEEE~!

[Einheriar]

Lightning claws for Assault Termies and Cyclones for Tactical Termies would be awesome!

I don't know if there's more weapons available for termies, but these two new weapons would be ggreat to have ^^

Anyway, good luck, and keep your great work, I love it :D

Cheers

[ChaosReigns]

What about Chaos Termies!!! lol, kidding
Actually...will you be adding your Chaos Termies?

[Warlord Skrakar]

Since we`re talking about Emperor`s finest and Dark Gods` most favoured,can I suggest something for DA HORDE`S BIGGEST(if we don`t count Warboss)?

Ranged weapon upgrades(Why would every Nob want to take a "power klaw" to the fight?).

[Exemplar]

Ranged weapon upgrades(Why would every Nob want to take a "power klaw" to the fight?).



I see what your point is, but giving the Orks both melee and ranged upgrades to, lets say the Nobs, would slighlty "unbalance" them. Orks (in general) are big on melee weapons. Besides, Orks, (Nobs especially) I think would prefer a close combat weapon opposed to a big shoota.

I would rather have more options to upgrade close combat weapons like a (larger) choppa.

[Melooo]

@Warlord Skrakar
the word bearers musicians was just a conversion made by a guy of GW australia.....they do no have any effect on game play...only cosmetic, I admit they're cool looking but.....I think it would be rather stupid have them in DOW......unless they act as some sort of chaos icon or whatever alike, attachable to squads and some decent CC abilities. somewhat like the apothecary
but again medes already did a chaos icon.

maybe adding some weird idle anims to the icon bearer with a drum.........dont know just digressing

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/chaosspacemarines/painting/showcase/default.htm

[Worsle]

I think he was more referring to the last line of this

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/wordbearers/

It does mention they have drums and other such things. They are very ritual orientated after all.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Meloo,I thought those were codex units(I was wrong),but still they`re part of their combat doctrine(Worsle gave you the link).

Suggestion for Tau honor guard-Orky Kroot Carnivores(Kroot who hunted only Orks and feasted on their flesh,so they`re all brawny,greener and stuff)

[medes]

!!New Update!!
Ah.. its been a while since the last update eh, just letting you know the Firestorm Team is still alive. So heres a new update featuring info of two new space marine squads.

1] Space Marine Command Squad
- Space Marine Commanders are often accompanied with a cadre of veterans in a Command Squad. The Command Squad is made up of 5 veteran marines, 1 veteran sergeant, 1 apothecary, 1 company champion and 1 standard bearer carrying the company's crusade banner.

2] Veteran Squad Militis Sanctum (Honorguard)
- A tank hunter squad recently promoted to veteran status following their outstanding performance on the Tartarus Campaign. They fulfill their role by either licking enemy armor upclose with their Multi Meltas or deliver massive firepower from a safe distance with Lascannons and Missile Launchers.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5834/relic00206jn8.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00206jn8.jpg)http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/278/relic00207wx7.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00207wx7.jpg)http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3350/relic00208vk4.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00208vk4.jpg)http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/264/relic00209gv9.th.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00209gv9.jpg)http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1345/relic00210er2.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00210er2.jpg)http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/4633/relic00211cq0.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00211cq0.jpg)http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3717/relic00213hm1.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00213hm1.jpg)http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7179/relic00214aa2.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00214aa2.jpg)http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2034/relic00215nj3.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00215nj3.jpg)http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9217/relic00216an5.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00216an5.jpg)http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4766/relic00217fm1.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00217fm1.jpg)http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9232/relic00218wb6.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00218wb6.jpg)http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6079/relic00219yt9.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00219yt9.jpg)

[acroyer]

Fantastic textures! Is there any possiblities of giving the apothicary a different weapon besides the chainsword.

I especially like the extra face protection on the Veteran Squad Militis Sanctum. It makes them really stand out.

[Exemplar]

Amazing work Medes and C2C Team!

I love the look of the shield and thunder hammer especially. It makes me proud to serve the God Emperor.

[ChaosReigns]

Wow medes, very cool! I might actually consider playing Space Marines when this mod comes out;).

I believe Orky-Kroot are called Ladz(although I could be wrong)

[Warlord Skrakar]

Woah!You should be praised with God Emperor of Man and Machine God!
(Sorry,waaay too excited)

When can we expect something new for T`au,1st Kronus Liberators and Word Bearers?
Don`t forget Clan Gorgutz,please.

[Master222]

Yeah now that's what I'm talking about! One sinle question - are they fully teamcolourable???

[Woolly]

M-multi-melta!

[compiler]

Very good work again Medes !

If I may, I'd just make 2 remarks :
- the Champion looks odd. He should chose between a bolter and a heavy shield for his right hand. Right now, it looks like he has a cardboard shield stuck on his right wrist. I must confess I am biased here since I have always found this bolter/shield combo for the same hand ridiculous. The fact that here the champion has a heavy shield just reinforces this bizarre look in my eyes
- the GK armour, with the heavy ring around the neck doesn't go too well with Mk VIII helmets. It gives clipping problem, plus the style doesn't look right to me.

Anyway, this is just personal taste remarks.

Excellent work anyway !

[|[TDR]|Myna]

I agree with compiler, It looks strange with the shield and Bolt Pistol, Should be one or the other, not both, but brilliant job with this medes.

[VenerableDread]

I thought Company Champions supposed to have a bolt pistol and combat shield at the same hand?

[acroyer]

I like the ring around the neck. Just make it wider to fix the clipping issue.

[compiler]

"I thought Company Champions supposed to have a bolt pistol and combat shield at the same hand?"

The codex they are armed with a combat shield and bolt pistol, but do not specify they have them attached permanently to the hand.
GW miniatures show some bolt pistol / shield combo (with small shields that look like native american shields to me), and I find these miniatures rather silly too.

I can understand why Medes did this the way he did : the engine has its limitations.
It is also an excellent work which respects the codex and the spirit of GW's minis concept.

It's just that I don't like this concept. As I said above, Medes' work is not in cause, it's just a matter of personal taste.

[medes]

When can we expect something new for T`au,1st Kronus Liberators and Word Bearers?
Most probably when its done.


Yeah now that's what I'm talking about! One sinle question - are they fully teamcolourable???
yup, even the honorguard units come with WTP for your re-modding pleasure.
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3782/relic00223jr6.th.jpg (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00223jr6.jpg)

[horusheretic]

does the one with shield and hammer (forgotten what its called) have a sword too that is upgradeable? after all it is ctc :-\

edit: as i look back a page i see this is so.

[medes]

please look at the screenshots on page before this

[horusheretic]

look up. i dont really visit this thread often.

[Warlord Skrakar]

medes,I got a feeling you were sarcastic to me.But that`s not the point of this post.

Two questions:
1.That new Broadside Battlesuit model-Is it a replacement for the DC one or a whole new unit?
2.Do you have in your plans to make new Kroot units for Tau Empire?

[JuggernautRM]

Man i can't wait to get my grubby hands on that company champion.

Any chance of getting it released as a single model for some of us modders?

[Master222]

yup, even the honorguard units come with WTP for your re-modding pleasure.

Whoa, your god status has just increased medes ;) Love you for being so kind to other modders, and house-tweekers :D

[Tovarich]

http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00215nj3.jpg

Is this some bug or an actual weapon? :wtf:

[VenerableDread]

That's a combi-melta.

[Worsle]

Looks a lot more like a combi-plasma to me.

[VenerableDread]

Err, combi-plasma I ment. Why do I get confused between plasma and melta weapons?

*slaps head*

[FourandTwenty]

Those are real weapons... I made combi-weapons for Medes a while back, but he's using his own variants (which is good, his are better looking). As far as I know, both Loyalist and Chaos marines will be getting them. No word on which will be selected, though.

[Tovarich]

All right, so it's a plasma+bolter weapon right?

[horusheretic]

Man i can't wait to get my grubby hands on that company champion.

Any chance of getting it released as a single model for some of us modders?


medes stated a while back that these will be for use in other peoples mods onces hes released his mod.

[ChaosReigns]

YAY! Combi weapons! It's a good day to be a heretic afterall:D.

[medes]

medes,I got a feeling you were sarcastic to me.But that`s not the point of this post.

Two questions:
1.That new Broadside Battlesuit model-Is it a replacement for the DC one or a whole new unit?
2.Do you have in your plans to make new Kroot units for Tau Empire?
Yes to the first question and yes to the second. Bout the question before, it wasn't sarcasm. I'll give you guys an update when they're done, ETA? i'm never sure.

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

WOOT PRETTY PICTURES *life improves for the rest of the time between now and next update*

[Randy]

That company champ looks great! He'd have a special ability I would think? I love that pic along with the hammer. Very cool carrier and that banner is huge! Good on ya!

[Warlord Skrakar]

OK,medes.Sometimes I go too far in the future(must stop watching "Back in the future").

New suggestion(now for Clan Gorgutz)-Cyborks and Skarboyz

[mastromanos]

Exellent job!!! Just one thing. Golden Eagles???

[Col.Blitz]

This models are awesome but what with Eldars??

[MEGAzogg]

Exellent job!!! Just one thing. Golden Eagles???
What do you mean?

Medes,
I really like your colorable SM banner, but it looks like it is made of paper... Maybe you can ask hangar-8 to make you one?

[|[TDR]|Myna]

or just add Hanger 8s effect over it which can be downloaded from skins@hiveworldterra, and by golden eagles i think he means either the Golden Eagle textures by Hanger 8 or make the Eagles on the chest gold.

[BigFish]

or just add Hanger 8s effect over it which can be downloaded from skins@hiveworldterra, and by golden eagles i think he means either the Golden Eagle textures by Hanger 8 or make the Eagles on the chest gold.Huh? I thought the eagles were gold? at least in single player.

[Melooo]

In Vanilla DOW campaing they were gold, but since in DC campaing its used the blood ravens .rtx textures.....the eagle is black.....

so i infer what you guy are saying, is to turn blood ravens .rtx eagle chest to gold

[BigFish]

You're right. I hadnt noticed that...

hmmmm...

:ion:

[MEGAzogg]

And I just happend to have the right texture for SM:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8791/spacemarinecodexunityt8.png (http://imageshack.us)

[BigFish]

wow, black chest eagles, I should have noticed that sooner, lol. Is that Hangar-8s texture? And is it for a normal marine or a C2C one?

:ion:

[|[TDR]|Myna]

Hanger 8's make it all Gold with green eyes, it looks better in my opinion.

[SpaceMarineFan]

Nice! What i'm looking for is a pimped out thule, with a helmet. Also Ai that upgrades their commanders would be nice, but hard.

Also, i just learned that your helmeted librarian works in Dark Crusade. I am including it in my mini-mod.
You will be in the special thanks! Thanks!

[MEGAzogg]

wow, black chest eagles, I should have noticed that sooner, lol. Is that Hangar-8s texture? And is it for a normal marine or a C2C one?

:ion:
Yep, it' hangar-8's. But I've made some changes to it:
1. adapt it for C2C space_marine set (redraw tac. markinds from the scratch)
2. chest eagle are now colorable and set to weapon's slot
3. set weapon to be non-colorable with black permanent color (46,46,46)
4. set eyes color to red.
Also I've added spec map and glow map (eyes are now glow in the dark) to all sm troops.

For more screenshots go here: http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=2060335&postcount=214

[BigFish]

Yep, it' hangar-8's. But I've made some changes to it:
1. adapt it for C2C space_marine set (redraw tac. markinds from the scratch)
2. chest eagle are now colorable and set to weapon's slot
3. set weapon to be non-colorable with black permanent color (46,46,46)
4. set eyes color to red.
Also I've added spec map and glow map (eyes are now glow in the dark) to all sm troops.
Wow!
1 - thought so, lol.
2, 3, and 4 - the textures I make tend to follow the relic colour patterns to keep it standardised, people can then alter them if they want.

Anyhow, I am very interested in the glow and specularity, I thought glows had to be done in OE not the WTPs? Anyhow, are there any tutorials online for adding glow and specularity? And how processor intensive are they?

Thanks

BigFish

[MEGAzogg]

Wow!
1 - thought so, lol.
2, 3, and 4 - the textures I make tend to follow the relic colour patterns to keep it standardised, people can then alter them if they want.

Anyhow, I am very interested in the glow and specularity, I thought glows had to be done in OE not the WTPs? Anyhow, are there any tutorials online for adding glow and specularity? And how processor intensive are they?

Thanks

BigFish
As far I haven't noticed any perfomance hit. Both glow and specularity maps are just simple 2D textures in RGB-8 format.
I'm not aware of any tutorials, but it's not very hard to figure out how to do them. Just extract chaos lord rsh texture for DoW or WA - it have glow map, and extract any of necron bulding texture to see how spec. map works (or download my spec. texture pack for SM). PM me I you want details.

[vol_907]

OK, Medes, I've been watching this mod develop for the past couple of months now...you're trying to make me stray from DoWXP, right?

Excellent work! This is definitely one for the download when it gets done.

[horusheretic]

medes; a suggestion if it hasnt already came to you:

reanimating destroyers.

thats 1 other thing they left out :rolleyes: . so that would mean you would need a half dead destroyer body (they already have the static pose of one but its not in a dead sort of way) then the animations on the destroyer. although the game only has 1 in a squad which isnt right anyway and people like me like to see how squads should be and what they can do. even the fire anim of the destroyer looks wrong even though i heard a while back your already working on the firing anims.

also; great work on the other goodies :jig:

[Warlord Skrakar]

If it`s possible,could you try to fix Thule`s and Alexander`s voices(those guys really don`t know how to voice act)?
And maybe you could change Nobz voice back to DoW and DoW:WA version.

Since horusheretic mentioned Necrons,they`re fearless,so don`t give them morale.
How can 90%-machines fear anything?

[MEGAzogg]

Since horusheretic mentioned Necrons,they`re fearless,so don`t give them morale.
How can 90%-machines fear anything?

Necrons do not fear anything, but as they are machines, the common sence of logic is well known to them, so then necrons outnumbered or then their current fight strategy could lead to their defeat, they can retreat.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Yeah,I see your point there,but morale makes units more vulnerable(low morale=easy kill).Morale is affected by emotions and Necrons don`t have those(except hatred).They will always stand their ground until their Lord says the opposite.

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

Yea but Morale is still present in the Necrons for TT, so taking it away would be silly. Even if they do have a fairly high leadership value.

[FourandTwenty]

Because of the outrageously high percentage chance of special attacks in melee, Warriors and Flayed Ones still retain a great deal of usefulness in CC even when Morale is broken.

It was quite annoying to see Slugga Boys charge routed Necron Warriors, then all of a sudden fly backwards because the stupid Warriors did their "swing the gun over their head" special attack. (hopefully their cathode ray tube breaks the next time they do that)

Anyway, code changes are all that would be necessary to fix any morale complaints, so feel free to do that modification on your own when the mod is released.

[Green Tide]

only one thing, Necrons arent machines, they are spirits trapped on ''Living metal'', and enslaved by the C'tan,and of course, they have a minimum sense of logic and will withdraw if the winds of battle are against them,and yes,im a fluff nerd :D

[Warlord Skrakar]

Oh,right.Sorry.I`m visiting too many forums who treat Necrons as machines.Totaly forgot about their backstories.(Just for the record, I`m sometimes fluff nerd too.)

[MEGAzogg]

Yeah,I see your point there,but morale makes units more vulnerable(low morale=easy kill).Morale is affected by emotions and Necrons don`t have those(except hatred).They will always stand their ground until their Lord says the opposite.
It is not MY point - it is how TT rules says.

[ChaosReigns]

Sorry to bother the mod team again...but...is there any way you could change the Sorcerer's voice back to the old(DoW, WA)one? Whoever did Sindri was a fantastic voice actor.

[DarknessKnight]

Guys this might have the closer to codex tag but this is not a request mod, the team already knows their objectives and what they want to acomplish so dont make these amounts of requests, which some are terribly awkward and dificult to acomplish. Modding is not a easy task and its mind/RL consuming so instead of asking stuff why dont you offer ya services instead... By our msn conversations i know that he needs all the help he can get so talented people go forth.

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

I have to agree whole heartedly with DK, If you want something done, and you're a modder, then join and help out.

[Agent47]

please forgive me if this has already been covered, but is the Apothecary going to get a bolt pistol to be able to defend himself along with a chainsword?

[MEGAzogg]

Guys this might have the closer to codex tag but this is not a request mod, the team already knows their objectives and what they want to acomplish so dont make these amounts of requests, which some are terribly awkward and dificult to acomplish. Modding is not a easy task and its mind/RL consuming so instead of asking stuff why dont you offer ya services instead... By our msn conversations i know that he needs all the help he can get so talented people go forth.
Yea, right. And if you suddenly feels that God's blessing are upon you, wonderful and genus ideas about how to improve C2C mod are swarming in your head, please... PLEASE keep it to yourself. Or go and kill yourself. Follow this simple rule - if you want to see this mod released before next millennium - make no more requests, post no more stupid ideas, do no more anything. ;):);)

[fuggles]

That was uncalled for, they are doing us all a favour.

[DarknessKnight]

No flame wars. I was making a peacefull statement to have the requests to minimum or to have some logical sense (not all are out of some logic). But acording to a conversation with medes he doesnt mind so post away gentlemen and forget i said anything. :beer:

[ade]

will do :p (sorry couldnt resist lol)
so is this mod going to have all the leman russ varients in it? and some landraider varients? I think youve done them already but im not to sure and i dont know if there actualy going to be in the mod. and one other lil thing, can you make the skull probe detect infultrated units without being attached to squads, its really annoying when you want to check some where and the skull probe goes way to fast, gets shot and then by the time the marines get there the enemies are invisible agen!! oooo it does annoy me! lol thnx

[ezekeil777]

looking very very very good medes but...........i do hope this can be finished before DOW 2 comes out, but no complaints yet, looks great and im dieing to play it or even a taste maybe you could release a BETA or something????? that would be sweet just the look of all the new units is overwelming. anyway good luck with the upcomin projects for this mod.

[MEGAzogg]

That was uncalled for, they are doing us all a favour.
Who?

[Warlord Skrakar]

To DarknessKnight and MEGAzogg(MEGAzogg especialy):
Uuuh,ok.I apreciate that what you`re doing,but for the record,many of us weren`t ASKing or REQUESTing for something,we were merely SUGGESTing to MAYBE help Firestorm team if they ran out of ideas(yeah,it`s possible).

PS:medes,correct me if I`m wrong.

[MEGAzogg]

To DarknessKnight and MEGAzogg(MEGAzogg especialy):
Uuuh,ok.I apreciate that what you`re doing,but for the record,many of us weren`t ASKing or REQUESTing for something,we were merely SUGGESTing to MAYBE help Firestorm team if they ran out of ideas(yeah,it`s possible).

PS:medes,correct me if I`m wrong.
Well... I'm not forbid or against your or any other person to suggestions, I only asking that you think first and post second - thats all.

[Warlord Skrakar]

Ok,nice to know.Sorry if I was a bit rude(you were too in yor pre-last post).

[medes]

now now, calm down people... old agitators aren't around and yet we're still on the verge of a flame war? lets not do this k.

Now bout the voice change, we can & probably will change the Nobz voice to the old ones, same with Sorcerror (Sindri was and still is awesome!!). However i'd like to keep the Governer Militant's voice as it is, not because he was a charismatic voice actor *cough*sarcasm*cough*, but because he's not General Sturn.

Word has it that General Sturn wasn't too pleased having part of his army detached to form a new regiment and under the command of a young, newly appointed and yet untested leader. Who knows for sure, rumor has it that the Cadian 412th is being redeployed to reinforce the Kronus 1st. In other words, Sturn might just make an appearance on Kronus... who knows...

Actually, that'll only happen if I can get a good SCAR coder, heh.

[Warlord Skrakar]

For Chaos Sorceror and Nobz:Yaaay!
For Governor Militant:Boooo!
Please,even if you find a good SCAR coder,don`t add Sturn.It would be really strange since in WA(Disorder campaign)Gorgutz beheaded him.But when I think more about it,how did Taldeer escape Gorgutz` power klaw?
But I`m not the modder here and certainly not Relic`s scenarist.

[medes]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought Sturn didn't die in WA, Gorgutz escaped, they didn't actually show him dying. Taldeer escaped too, thats why Alexander was sent to track her down. We all know whatshisname (the CL in WA) died coz it was mentioned in DC. But then again, i guess it all depends on which side you picked to play as, heh... This is one reason why i prefer a linear campaign

[Warlord Skrakar]

Yeah,I prefer linear campaigns too(choosing sides makes the plot really confusing and it`s harder to make sequels which have general sense).

Crull was Khorne Lord`s name if I recall.

[medes]

anyways just throwing around random ideas here but, IF, IF i do get a SCAR coder to help out here's an example of what i pictured when redesigning the campaign.

Assaulting the IG stronghold - When platoon of cowards have already turned and you're closing in on Alexender. A NIS cuts in showing bombers making runs on the traitor base and Valkyries landing large amounts of troops and armor from the 412th. Commissar comes foward to a sergeant, tells him that Sturn is here to relieve Alexander of his command. If we can get a warhound deployed at this part it'd be awesome too, makes a great boss battle.

Another example is redoing the Pavonis space port assault - Make defenders always entrenched in within the space port walls and attackers start outside acompanied with some good units to prevent from getting rushed. Defenders Objective - Hold the Space port for certain amount of time, Attackers - Take the space port at all cost. Some scripted events here would do great too, if player is attacking maybe once the defences have been breached enemy reinforcements arrive from outside of map. If player is defender, maybe at around 10 minutes left enemy bombards a section of the wall with an off map artillery and make a breach... Just some things to keep you busy, i think it beats capturing servitors anyday IMO.

So what do you think? Will it be worth it getting a SCAR coder and redesigning the campaign? Of course if you're worried that this might push the release date back, don't be. Because once the races/general balance/new models are done, we'll release Firestorm and save the campaign as an updated version. Just to show Firestorm refuse to die after its release. So then, what do you think? Crap, that was alot of words...

[Warlord Skrakar]

Nice touch for raid on IG stronghold,but...About that traitor base-it makes most sense with CSM,SM and Tau(for CSM-guardsmen become tainted;for SM-no need to explain;for Tau-guardsmen see that Greater Good is their path).Orks for example would rather slaughter da `oomies,so would Necrons too.
And very,very nice idea for capturing the spaceport.

[ade]

thats an awsome idea. specialy if you can get the warhound.Or you could make them a different side and make them play different, like more imperial guardish, lots n lots of troops! i always thought imperial guard and orks arnt very swarmy. What about the old force commander? he was much better than this new guy. i think a new campaigne would be an exallent idea, good luck with that and the rest ov the mod!

[medes]

Orks for example would rather slaughter da `oomies,so would Necrons too.True, but you still capture those slag pits to power up the titan cannon playing as those races, bombers can hit that instead.


i think a new campaigne would be an exallent idea, good luck with that and the rest ov the modwell, i'm not exactly planning on making a whole new campaign, just redoing and adding some cream on the existing one. I gotta admit after 3 runs i'm getting bored of playing 1v1 or in later game 2+v1 skrimishes just to see the different endings.

[Capt_PooFace]

i have an idea to solve the FC problem. Just have both. Make it similar to the IG idea, like have the old FC and some 1st company veterans come in and reinforce the new blood ravens when it looks like everyone is about to die

[DarknessKnight]

To DarknessKnight and MEGAzogg(MEGAzogg especialy):
Uuuh,ok.I apreciate that what you`re doing,but for the record,many of us weren`t ASKing or REQUESTing for something,we were merely SUGGESTing to MAYBE help Firestorm team if they ran out of ideas(yeah,it`s possible).



Ya wrong, medes is a bottomless pit of ideias and hes got a hell of a crew with him, theres mostly nothing here told that he didnt think of or tryed before most of the requests were done. Also as a modder he knows which ones can be done or not. Most modders here are a close community and some things are made and shown between us that doesnt see the day of light for many reasons. That was the main reason i posted in my friends thread, for you gamers to understand that modding isnt easy and none has a magic wand.

[medes]

Ya wrong, medes is a bottomless pit of ideias and hes got a hell of a crew with him, theres mostly nothing here told that he didnt think of or tryed before most of the requests were done. Also as a modder he knows which ones can be done or not. Most modders here are a close community and some things are made and shown between us that doesnt see the day of light for many reasons. That was the main reason i posted in my friends thread, for you gamers to understand that modding isnt easy and none has a magic wand. Thank you for those kind words my friend, but somehow i feel that such appraisal was uncalled for. Remember that it's teamwork thats propelling this project foward and not my actions alone. I believe the one deserving of such praise is the whole Firestorm Team as well as veteran modders like Korbah and Mirage Knight to name a few, who's been helping us develope along the way.

Now lets drop whatever it was that started all those flamings and move on. Heres something for you guys to talk about till the next update.

Redesigned scripted missions for the campaign, similar to the example i've given in my previous post. Please rant your ideas, what would you like see in a redesigned mission?

[BigFish]

Starting bases already set up when your defending your stronghold. It bugs me that if it goes wrong and your home province gets attacked it turns out only to be garrisoned by a builder and one building. Especially whan your oponents strongholds can be a nightmare to take (Taldeer, I'm looking at you and your 30 fireprisms!). Dont know how feasable this would be though,

my 2c

:ion:

[DarknessKnight]

As i said my friend ya got a hell of a team, ya forgot to read that. :nana: Ya got a SCAR coder already? Beware that if ya gonna change the main missions the voice briefing by the voice actor is going to be useless IF the mission profile as not the same region name and geral mission objectives :grouphug:

[|[TDR]|Myna]

I like the idea of the old force commander coming and aiding the new one with first company veterans. My idea probably isn't possible, but if possible how about being able to spend Planetary requisition on units to start with? abit like the forward base power but with units instead of buildings.

[AshaD]

I've had a thought I know this could be dead annoying to model multiple times but, I frequently here fluff people and TT players who mod say they hate the fact that the force commander always looks the same and is helmetless. Would it be possible to spawn a random appearance entity for the force commander, Say the original, a helmeted one and Davian Thule? Much like many of the models you've made/skinned for the community before that are randomized.

[SpaceMarineFan]

Yes i agree! There should be a male farseer and several versions of the fc looks!

Anyway, I think at the end of a level, your heros should duel, 1 on 1.

[fuggles]

Would be great if the avatar could get a spear too.

[FourandTwenty]

I wonder how we could incorporate our new units and wargear into the NIS sequences... For example, our new Tau units, the jetbike-like vehicles... flights of these drop in when you try to take Unit Plaza, or maybe one of the Tetras tries to pull the Ethereal on, only to be shot down.

Another concern if we're going to alter the final missions is the level design... I've stormed the Imperial Guard without taking on the Titan Cannon's power base using jump troops (the base in the upper-right hand corridor). That area would have to be sealed off...

[Exemplar]

your heros should duel, 1 on 1.

Yes, I agree. I would not know how, but I think it would be something if it could be like Warhammer: Mark of Chaos where (I think) there is an "ability" where your main commander unit can duel one on one with another enemy hero unit. I also thought there was a "ring" that seperates the commanders from the rest of the army while dueling so they would not affect the fight.

[Worsle]

Not only does that seem a bit complicated it does not even make sense for some of the charicters. Why would any IG general of Tau comander in their right mind try and duel a daemon prince?

[MEGAzogg]

Everyone knows that Warhammer: Mark of Chaos is for chicks... :rofl:Sorry. :smurf:

[Exemplar]

Originally Posted by:Worsle
...does not even make sense for some of the charicters. Why would any IG general of Tau comander in their right mind try and duel a daemon prince?



Would'nt any true servant of the Emperor try a duel a daemon price? On a more serious note, yes, you do have a point, but it was just a thought. It seemed like a great aspect during a skirmish...


Originally Posted by:MEGAzogg
Sorry:smurf:


Indeed...

[Gladius1000]

I havent(sp) played through the entire campaign yet(i keep switching races in the middle of them). But a simple way to make the Regular Skirmish's better would be to allow for some different victory conditions. For example allow for Control area Victory and maby for some select territorys Take and Hold.

Another thing you can allow for is to have players be able to buy buildings(simaler to the Forward base ability) in your own provinces.

A more complex(and probably hard to implement(mind you i have no idea on how to code anything)) idea would be to have third or even fourth Armys in the same province during a skirmish Depending on how many races a province borders/How many defence points the province that is being skirmished on and the provinces around it/what the armies involved are and how big the map is.

It could work out something like this.

Orks would have a minor Nob M.A.N. or Big Mek leading there forces into battle(allways present in the southern jungles). No Warboss Nob Squad or M.A.N. is recruitable.

Eldar would have Webway gates strewn around the map with Infiltrated Rangers roaming about and attempting to kill Commanders. The rangers would be limited to a few squads around at once.

Imperial Guard could have a Infantry command or Vehicle command as a sort of forward observation post. Lots of Guardsmen some minor vehicles and a lone Commisar as a comander. Maby killing the Commisar would bring the Imperial Guard troops onto your side(depending on your race of course).

The Space Marines could have some cloaked scouts running about attempting to assasinate the commanders of the combatants.

Chaos maby could have lots of Cultists and Defilers spawning and attacking periodicly from a point on the map or a small base.

Necrons would be the same deal as chaos exept with Warriors.

The Tau would have multiple stealthsuits or pathfinders running around the map attacking lone squads.

And one note about the Stronghold missions. Please please please have those fancy Movies for when you are defending your stronghold as well as attacking your enemys.

[Nekura-Na-Hairu]

I have never had to defend my stronghold, but I would love to see how it works, and if the movies are different.

[medes]

Ya got a SCAR coder already?
no, these plans are for after v1.0 release, kinda like an add-on. So most likely we won't need a SCAR coder till then.

Beware that if ya gonna change the main missions the voice briefing by the voice actor is going to be useless IF the mission profile as not the same region name and geral mission objectives
no problem there, solution [a] remove the voice briefing and add a text briefing on the loading screen or solution [b] get a new voice briefing.

Would it be possible to spawn a random appearance entity for the force commander, Say the original, a helmeted one and Davian Thule?
not sure whether to say it's cool or not, i thing for certain is that i won't do randomize commanders. Just imagine playing the campaign with a Capt Thule that might come out old or young everytime you train him. Or the farseer Taldeer that come spawned as a male farseer during a NIS and speak with a female voice, i'm no Eldar expert but i don't think it's very fluffy.

I wonder how we could incorporate our new units and wargear into the NIS se, our new Tau units, the jetbike-like vehicles... flights of these drop in when you try to take Unit Plaza, or maybe one of the Tetras tries to pull the Ethereal on, only to be shot down.
i may have a solution for the 'jetbike-like units' dropping into the Plaza, i've been experimenting with high-altitude drop for ASM and LS and i think similar function maybe used here.

Another concern if we're going to alter the final missions is the level design...
then lets add a mapper to the recruit list too then.

I havent(sp) played through the entire campaign yet(i keep switching races in the middle of them). But a simple way to make the Regular Skirmish's better would be to allow for some different victory conditions. For example allow for Control area Victory and maby for some select territorys Take and Hold.
me likes.

have third or even fourth Armys in the same province during a skirmish
that sounds good too, but requires the campaign skirmish maps to be SCAR scripted, we'll see..

[BulletSix]

How about making a "story mission" a survival map? (holding against a number of waves before starting an own attack? (kinda similar to "hold this position for xx minutes", though)

[Warlord Skrakar]

Wow.Really text heavy this page is(hail master Yoda).
Ehhm,back on track.What about this kind of "story mission"-hold this `n` that for # minutes or assassination of commanding officer,boss or whatever in province?

[compiler]

"i've been experimenting with high-altitude drop for ASM and LS "
Sounds interesting. Could you share your knowledge with other modders (in the advanced modding forum for instance ?)

[SpaceMarineFan]

Can you try to add a thunderhawk? Many have tried, yet failed! I don't know how you could make it fly without stopping though.

[Kou Uraki]

maybe for its idle animations you could just have it fly around on circles or just fly back and forth in that one area that you moved it to when it stopped?

[DarknessofEden]

Yes i agree! There should be a male farseer and several versions of the fc looks!

Anyway, I think at the end of a level, your heros should duel, 1 on 1.
O-O nu! Keep the farseer Female please...?

Otherwise, I think that there should be changes too.. perhaps, hmm... well, I think the necron stronghold should be designed differently (>-< it's annoying trying to fend off half an army of necrons right at the begining)

Also, umm, maybe randomize some guard infantry so some are female? o-o;; only a few, prolly no more than one or two per squad though

[medes]

Sounds interesting. Could you share your knowledge with other modders (in the advanced modding forum for instance ?)
will do

[ezekeil777]

a thunderhawk would be great, i would say they hover if they land as they do, but thats just what i think. you should make it so you can transport troops around and a land ability it would be like the heavy weapons teams and broadsides? meh i dont no

[ChaosReigns]

What about Chaos drop pods? I know technically they're not available from citadel miniatures but forgeworld has a few.

[medes]

i think they're called dreadclaws or something, and yeah it would be cool. Only problem is, Word Bearers are coming through the portal in the Deimos Peninsular. This probably means that they're not maintaining an active battle fleet in orbit.

[DarknessKnight]

This is a dreadclaw, it has moving parts so its more dificult to model than loyalists ones and can get out of the atmosphere by self thrust like a gunboat. Never the less im inclined to agree with medes that WB are using a demonwarp gate so they need not to use those assets fluffwise but then theres something called artists prerrogative... ;)

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Chaos/dreadc1.jpg

[ChaosReigns]

You're right medes, I forgot about that, my bad.

That model is very cool though! Something just occured to me: if the Word Bearers have no fleet in orbit what's to stop the Space Marines or Tau from bombing the planet into oblivion in the event that Chaos wins the campaign

That Dreadclaw is a beautifully painted model. About the "moving" parts what does this entail: are we talking moving as in moving faces and symbols on the side of the Dread Claw or is it moving as in mechanically moving.

[Lleman]

The moving parts are 'mechanical' components. Look here http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/dreadclaw.htm

[medes]

now that you mention it, yeah that would be weird. I'm guessing maybe some form of anti orbital cannons deployed around the planet. Hey, this gives me an idea for the chaos stronghold mission: destroy anti-orbital emplacements to allow <insert race here> fleet to move into position. Once completed, give player a scar coded orbital strike ability or just make a NIS where <race> bombers drop payloads. Then again, Necrons don't have fleets fighting above too...... what happens then? Maybe the objective can be a little different when playing necrons.

[Master222]

Maybe as for the necrons :"[...] a pitefull metal contruction of the chaos gods. Destroy it to please the C'tan, and they shall give us their blessing" or something like that.

[white-blood]

Sry but I don´t like this idea.It´s not the necron style

[MEGAzogg]

It seems that we have reached 50 page! Medes, do you think it is a good idea to post some more eye-candy to celebrate this event?

[DarknessKnight]

necrons harvest all minions of chaos for the stargods in a massacre of epic proportions on land, infecting the anti fleet cannons destroying all ships in space. simple, efective and also fluff.

[FourandTwenty]

Similar to DarknessKnight: Cleanse this location, that we may re-awaken a Pylon and fell the living from the skies.

Chaos' answer: Recover a few artifacts and erect a temple. From there we will call a Warp Storm to engulf the planet as we crush the remaining races into submission. Once finished, Kronus will be a proper Hell-World for our Apostle's enjoyment.

[medes]

Instead of destroying the orbital cannon, necrons can capture it, in the NIS instead of bombing runs we can have the cannons firing into space, then debris come crashing down onto the plains of khorne taking out a portion of the chaos army.

EDIT: or yes, the pylon idea is cool too

[ChaosReigns]

Oh come ON!!! Doesn't anyone else want drop pods! Oh well. Could you make them available in skirmish at least?

[Warlord Skrakar]

Suggestion for Ork onslaught on Word Bearer Warp Gate:
"Dose stinkin` Chaos boyz tink they`z tougha den us.Let`s git their big shooty thingies,make`em orky `n` blast`em with`em.Den we`z gonna rip`em apart fer shootin` our space `ulks down.By Gork `n` Mork,dis iz gonna be so much fun!Me luvs Kronus!"-Gorgutz `Ead `Unta

One more thing(off topic though):
Which races can be affected by four winds of Chaos,except humans of course?

[VenerableDread]

Well, I've seen Nurgle Orks...