View Full Version : [DC] Commisar boost
26th Nov 06, 11:51 AM
Fact no. 1 : Commisars is useless as member of command squad compared to priest or psyker
Fact no. 2 : Priests are prefered addition to Kasyrkin/Ogryn sqads
Fact no. 3: In tier 3 guardmen die too fast to deal any good damage with Commisar's execute while priest can keep them from geting insta-fragged.
Fact no. 4 : Commisar gives little for his price in the tier 1
Suggestion: Give Commisar ability to boost sqads movement speed for few seconds (name it: Charge , Onward or "not a step back" which would be great refference to the original ZSSR Commisars in Stalingrad ) and breaks any slow effect from enemy spells (like trap)
What would this fix:
For command sqad:
1. Command sqad could run away easier when targeted or traped.
2. Command sqad with priests for melee could easier close with enemy
3. Commisar could have ANY use at all for command sqad
1. Would make early point caping much easer because troops would reach destination much faster. This would also fix "no cheap capping unit" problem with IG (sort of)
2. Would make dancing much more effective , rewarding player with good micro skills.
3. Broken sqads could rush out of combat for reinforcing
4. Would make early posts defence easier , especialy vs tau harassment
5. Ogryns could use this boost to CHARGE and take out distance target (like arty). IG don't have any jumpers , this could be sort of helpful.
IG wears light body armor , it should be obvious that this guys can really "leg it" when needed.
Drop units chance to hit with ranged weapons ratio while "charging". This should be "melee combat" helper and escape , not a "rush in to kill off any runners"
26th Nov 06, 12:03 PM
The only "fact" you got right was no.2.
26th Nov 06, 12:06 PM
Go on and explain then. Do no 1 please.
26th Nov 06, 12:12 PM
maybe i`m wrong but i thought that comissars execute is affecting all squads near him -> buffed damage and morale
26th Nov 06, 12:17 PM
Commisar is very handy as an attachment to gaurdsman squads. If you really feel your squads are dying to quickly tier 3, send in priest squads at the front, then use commisar squads with execute at the back.
Tier 1, the commissar is used in the CS squad - you'll note Das Capn does use it occassionaly in such a function. Tier 1, the commissar's regen is valuable - both for the CS and the Guardsman squads (since at tier 1 there isn't too much damage dealing by enemies, either, so it makes a difference!)
I do feel, however, the Command Squad commissar becomes very useless tier 2 onwards. He just brings nothing to the table in comparison to the priest or psyker.
26th Nov 06, 12:29 PM
When artylery hits my executed GMs I would like to run like hell because what I have is buffed airborne , dieing all around.
Using priest sqads as meat shields is ok , but won't really work on someone who picks their targets instead of clickng "A" and poinitng at my guys
26th Nov 06, 12:42 PM
The artillery you should fear most is Bassis - which are yours. Sides, a priest with airborn GMs isn't must better than a commi with airborn GMs.
26th Nov 06, 12:45 PM
Chris is easily one of the best IG players in the game. He doesnt need to explain anything to anyone...
26th Nov 06, 12:54 PM
I hope that was joking Hirm :P
No matter how good someone is, justification is still always welcome (even if I agreed with him)
26th Nov 06, 1:13 PM
I have to say I agree with Deathscythe61 comment.
Back on topic, however, I agree with the OP points one and two. Point 3 I disagree with, Orgyns should be in melee by T3 acting as disruption along with the CS and Bassies. This should take fire off your GM to allow them to use the full effect of Execute. Cotms and plasma should help reduce any vechiles to mince espiecially when backed up by vechiles which should be around. If your GM are attacked by a large force run away and get support! GM can be suprisingly effective either as a meat shield to protect vechiles in which case extra DPS is just a bonus or providing the enemy with to many targets to shoot at! It'll take a while to kill all the GMs etc and by the time he does your second wave should be appearing.
Point 4 is dubious, to be honest I never play online so I'm not the best judge of the issue. That said, however, the cost of the Commisar is balance by the increased healing rate of GM and his ablitily to soak up fire. Also important are the fact that he is a vivable CC unit should the need arise and having him ready at the front when he get Execute could turn the tide of battle.
That said, however, the idea you propose is interesting, it could be espeically useful when facing PSM and help keep the GM with Orgyns etc. I think that it would be good for just the CS Commisar to have it, just to help the CS to get into combat and not be shot to bits.
26th Nov 06, 1:39 PM
Chris is easily one of the best IG players in the game...
Only because the IG player base is so small. I'm sure if half of the top 100 players switched to IG they'd be better than me :p
Main reason I didn't go into in-depth explanation is that if you post things like "commisars don't do much for their cost in tier 1" as FACTS then I don't think you'll understand anything I have to say. Several individuals on this forum have posted time and time again giving good advise and replays to show how IG can be used effectively in tier 1. It is becoming just a little bit tiresome reapeating myself every time a new person signs up to the forum and decides to post how this or that is too weak for IG, probably without using the search function first.
26th Nov 06, 2:17 PM
I must have been missguided by this http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=100524 giving me stupid impression that IG sucks in tier 1
Tier 0, 1, 1.5... IG should never stand and fight anything that it can not easily kill (lone squads of cultists, scouts on harassment missions, units just passing by... smallish fuzzy animals who might bite... you get the idea.)
and this post was about adding "charge" for commisairs , which no one debates going instead for easy hits at ol'Garrot here
26th Nov 06, 2:28 PM
Troubleshooter wrote that guide months ago, for winter assault. thus, this conversation is outdated ;)
26th Nov 06, 3:01 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing the power cost for commies nerfed a little... they might have been worth 40 power when they made your imba armour guardsmen totally immune to morale as well... at the moment they are absolutely necessary if you want a guardsmen squad be able to take some fire without running away screaming.
26th Nov 06, 3:18 PM
Most of the other arguements are moot points too, considering the Command Squad changes Fell agreed with last time I discussed it on this very forum.
26th Nov 06, 3:36 PM
--> i agree with nerfing commisars cost.
Chris , the playbacks where IG won were often played against Players that made some very bad mistakes and IG punished them for that.
Sometimes there were real good games played by good players, but when i see Pureball (IG) loosing against eXXe(Eldar)
then i know why the IG-player base is so low:
- its difficult to play them adequate
- when you can handle them verrry good u will still lose against another race which
is played by a very good player ,too.
- the effort to play IG good is always higher than to play any other race good
conclusion for most people:
I dont play IG!
What can happen to change that?
-probably nothing , except buffing / fix something for IG.
-nerfing something is stupid.
-some nice ideas to buff IG here and there OR decrease some costs of upgrades. kill depots
26th Nov 06, 3:42 PM
/looks down being all sad
I got taken to school on my first post. back to the drawing board...
26th Nov 06, 10:24 PM
Don't worry about it Garrotte we all had to start somewhere =), but as for a few Commie facts that haven't been pointed out in this thread that you may have missed as well...
The mini-hero Commies provide a healing aura to the squad they're attached to, while the CS Commie does not, but does provide a speed boost that stacks with the Priest's speed boost. Unfortunately the Commie and Priest health and morale boosts do not stack for the CS, greatly limiting their usefulness =(.
26th Nov 06, 10:34 PM
It'd be nice if commisars had even just a little bit more health. If you've got one and he dies, you've pretty much gotta retreat.
26th Nov 06, 11:18 PM
i would like to see attachable commisars (ones that are not in the cs) scale in both health and damage.
27th Nov 06, 3:13 AM
the pathing would terribly suck then? ( because there are more units in the CS )
27th Nov 06, 4:23 AM
Yeah, I would like the attachable Commies to get some kind of combat effectiveness boost in tier 3, as beyond tier 2 they're mostly just there for their support abilities, which while not a bad role for them does mean that their usefulness actually lessens with tiers, an effect asociated more with uncapped squads with planned obsoletence than the capped mini heroes they are =P
27th Nov 06, 5:35 AM
Perhaps IG could use a hero-scaling ability that affects all of them, like other races get?
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