Squad Sizes

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

Ok, im making a mod thats kinda like the EnhancedCombat one only different (no i didnt use his stuff) mine is gonna have increased Squad Sizes, Increased Pop and an Installer File for it (which i made in Visual Basic)

This one is specifically designed to work with 1.3 patch or higher...

im running outta idea though, so if u guys have any let me know....

ps.. if u lads or lad'es are making any mods in the mod folder dont forget to delete and empty folders before distributing... they wont do anything other than take up like 1kb of space, its not much but every little bit helps.

[Leanardo]

Well one huge thing that would be nice is real new tanks not just a new pershing in the tank factory ,but maybe like idk stuarts?Also maybe some more command tree stuff or beef up the current ones.(armor) :awesome:

[SteveO2160]

Why would you choose the username Sgt. D. Pilla.

[KnowsKnone]

Lol, thats horrible, "Steve O" at least his username had some thought put into it, Anyway back to topic, yeah new real vehicles would be really nice, many mods intend to put them in but they are either prototypes that were never made or fictional, which still add veriety to the units but this isn't DOW....

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

Because he was the bravest solider i know of during the gulf war... he was a hero to many people, he risked his life to save his mates from enemy fire and got shot for being the only one to do the right thing... RIP Sgt. Dominick Michael Pilla....

"I will never leave a fallen comrade to
fall into the hands of my enemy"

He was killed while retrieving a fallen soldier, because sworn by his Ranger Creed
He Could Leave No Man Behind

"Never ever ask me to explain myself to anyone about the heroics of
others, for if they dont know they care"

[SteveO2160]

Sgt. D Pilla was with the Rangers 1/75 if I remember right not in the Gulf War but fought in Mogadishu Somalia. He died in a humvee. He was a good man anyone that serves his/her country is. Did you know him? If you did I apologize for the disrespect.

Nevermind you didn't :) still my apologies for disrespect.

OOH! and all the men of Task Force Ranger were the bravest men.:tomb: to those that gave their lives

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

No disrespect was taken, but you cant beleve what u see in movies Sgt. D. Pilla died saving fallen comrades from enemy fire, the movie black hawk down is actually about as far away from the truth as you can get.
I myself didnt know him but hes a relitive of our family.

SOME INFO...
KILLED IN SOMALIA
Sergeant Dominick M. Pilla
Company B, 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment
Killed in Action: October 3, 1993

visit http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/memorial/pilla/index.html

[SteveO2160]

My information isn't from a movie. Pilla was an M60 Gunner. He was to concentrate his fire to the right side of the vehicle. Where as the .50 Gunner had the left side. And while passing through an intersection ? or turning a corner once again not sure on that fact, was shot in the head.

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

lol, no Pilla Died saving mates from enemie fire, he was never killed in a vehicle or shot in the head, he was shot in the back.

[SteveO2160]

He was shot in the head. Saving mates yes, that he was. Part of the convoy to either drop the Ranger that fell from the chopper (did happen) or to find the crash site. Pilla was a 60 gunner but lets not argue over how he died thats all hearsay anyway. Good man

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

here here

[ljedelman]

Um, shouldn't we be back on topic before someone like the admins locks this for not being about modding?

[Corsix]

SteveO2160 has been given a warning for detailing the thread. Please do not derail threads, and please do not respond to derails either.

Now, back to on-topic ...

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

ok sorry corsix... yeah back on track... the mod is nearly completed

[Nebfer]

Well I dont know If you know this or if its not to late, but here's the historical squad sizes for the "factions" involved in COH and what thy where historicly armed with.
If it's "to late" then this would more general knolage.

German army rifle squad
size as of mid 1943: 9 men (from mid 1940 to mid 1943 it was 10 men.)
squad weapons where as such.
1x Squad leader: MP-40 + side arm
1x Machinegunner: MG-42 + Side arm
1x Assitient machinegunner: K-98k
1x Riflemen: MP-40
5x Riflemen: K-98k (one armed with a rifle granade launcher if avalible)

Volkgrenadier squad (SMG)
Size: 9 men
Squad weapons
1x Squad leader: MP-40 or StG 44
8x Riflemen: MP-40 or StG 44

Volkgrenadier squad (Rifle)
Size: 9 men
Squad weapons
1x Squad leader: MP-40 or StG 44
1x Machinegunner: MG-42
1x Ast Machinegunner MP-40 or StG 44
3x Riflemen: MP-40 or StG 44
3x Greanadier: K-98k with Rifle Granade Launcher

Panzergrenadier Squad (armord)
Size as of 1944: 8 men (droped to 8 men from 10 in late 1943.)
1x Squad leader: MP-40
1x Ast sqaud leader: K-98k
2x Machineguner: MG-42 + side arm
2x Ast Machinegunner: side arm
2x Riflemen: K-98k (one armed with a Rifle granade launcher if avalible)

Panzergrenadier squad (moterized)
Size as of 1944: 10 men (down from 12 men in 1943)
1x Squad leader: MP-40 + side arm
1x Ast sqaud leader: K-98k
2x Machineguner: MG-42 + side arm
2x Ast Machinegunner: Side arm
4x Riflemen: K-98k (one armed with a Rifle granade launcher if avalible)

"Heavy" Machine Gun Squad
Size: typicly 5 to 6 men
1x Squad leader: MP-40 + side arm
1x Machinegunner: MG-42 + side arm
1x Ast Machinegunner: side arm
2-3x Riflemen: K-98k

Waffen SS squads where the same as there regular army counter parts.
---------------
US Army Rifle squad
Size: 12 men
1x Squad leader: M1 Rifle or Carbine
1x Ast squad leader: M1 Rifle
1x Automatic Riflemen: BAR
1x Ast Auto Riflemen: M1 Rifle
1x Ammo barrier: M1 Rifle
7x Riflemen: M1 Rifle (one with a granade launcher if avalible)

Note: US army equipment tables show that there was no SMGs in "Official" use till after D-day and then only 6 per company.

Armored Infantry Squad
Size 11 men
1x Squadleader: M1 Rifle
1x Ast Squad Leader: M1 Rifle
9x Riflemen: M1 Rifle (one with a granade launcher if avalible)

Note: The squad itself did not have Automatic weapons though BARs and the likes did find them-selfs in use from time to time... MG suport came from the Squads Half Track and the Platoon's LMG squad.

Airborn Squad
12 men
1x Squad leader: M1 Rilfe
1x Ast Squad leader: M1 Rilfe
1x Machinegunner: 30 cal MG (M1919A4) + M1 Carbine
1x Ast Machinegunner: M1 Carbine
8x Riflemen: M1 Rifle (one with a granade launcher if avalible)

Note: Again SMG use was "unofficial" untill after D-day and again only 6 per company...

Ranger Squad
Size: 11 men
1x Squad leader: M1 Rifle
2x Team leader: M1 Rifle
4x Riflemen: M1 Rifle
1x Machinegunner: 30 cal MG (M1919A4) + side arm
1x Ast Machinegunner: Side arm
2x Ammo bearer: M1 Rifle

Medium Machinegun Squad
Size 6 men
1x Squad leader: M1 Rifle
1x Machine gunner: Side arm
1x Ast Machine gunner: Side Arm
3x Riflemen: M1 Carbine

[Iceciro]

That... is really handy, Nebfer. I'm torn between the fact that those squads are bigger than I'd like, and historical accuracy...

In any case thanks very much for posting that.

[Scytheman]

thx for this usefull information :D

[Kyranzor]

hey nebfer, have you got a source/website link i can look at? i want to read up more on this topic as well, and see if there are any other squad loadouts for special weapons like how many men per artillary gun and also how many and what guns were used for a bazooka/rktn pz buchse squads and seperate MG squads etc

oh, and did volksgrenadiers (SMG) squads really exist? and did/could they all have sturmgewehr 44's? i dont think so. and you didnt mention the Gewehr 43 rifle either, which was more common than you have mentioned.

[Nebfer]

yes I tryed posting them but it didnt like it.. then after I posted the info I notised that it was just the preview that didnt like the web links...

so here thy are.

This one is just german OOB info. (nice and graphical -look under the "KStN" section)
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/

And heres one that is realy nice.
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/
Battalion level orginazation for all sides. and talks about how thy changed over the war. (the freky one is the soviets -started the war with a battalion of 775 men ended it with ~400...)

even talks abit on tactics and such.

Volksgrenadier company is as fallows
HQ section
1. Platoon (SMG)
SMG squad
SMG squad
Rifle Squad
2. Platoon (SMG)
SMG squad
SMG squad
Rifle Squad
3. Platoon (Rifle) -just a "reguler" rifle platoon
Rifle Squad
Rifle Squad
Rifle Squad

Most StG-44s was isued to newer formations or units that where being refited at the time the StG-44 was avalible. (sence most Volksgrenadier units fall into these examples thy would of goten atlest some. Though not all units would of goten them.)

I have seen KStNs of Panzergrenadier companys that are out fited with StG-44s (called Sturm Zug)
Heres one -dated to november 1944 (it's a moterized Panzergrenadier company.)
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn1114afg1nov44.htm

and here's a Volksgrenadier company. (dated to september 1944.) http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn131v1sep44.htm

As for the G-43 Rifle the Second link dose mention that it was planed at one point to try to outfit each squad with two of them (one with a Scope!). (for the rifle squads atlest -It dose not mention how the Panzergrenadiers would of used them.)
--------------------
Bazookas in US usage where tyipicly unalocated meaning thy did not have a spasific crew to operate them.
The Germans on the other hand had a dedicated two man team (for reguler infantry thy where attached from the Regimental Anti-tank Company to wich had 2 or 3 platoons fielding 18x RPB-54s each. Panzergrenadier companys had an organic AT squad with four of them.)

For the germans it was typical for the two man team to have the "gunner" armed with a side arm, and the "loader" to have a SMG. Though I have seen Rifles isued insted, but SMGs turn up far more often.

The MG squads I have listed are sepret units not part of a Rifle Platoon.

Artillery units are much more harder to deal with but for the US I would asume M1 Carbines and Side Arms. for the Germans it would be K-98s and side arms with a few SMGs here and there.

Ah well what do you know heres a 10cm howitzer battery date to november 1941 (it's german by the way.)
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn4571nov41.htm

[Kyranzor]

hey cool that site on german troops is awesome.

just a question, what does KStN stand for?



these are certainly very confusing and very complex troop organisations. lol the poor military payroll and staffer guys hehe

[Nebfer]

KStN = Kriegsstärkenachweisungen.

I dont realy read german but it's basicly "Theritcal orginzation for war". or something to that effect.

this is what the site says about it.


http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstninfo.htm
A KStN is a chart which shows the theoretical organization and composition of a certain unit. KStN´s were often changed during the war due to reorganization of higher level units like regiments or Abteilungen. The KStN gives the exact number of men, their Stellengruppe (http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/stellengruppen.htm), their position, task in the unit and the armament. The type of vehicles, trailers etc.. is set in the KStN. Normally KStN are numbered but there are also several unnumbered KStN in special folders. KStN include units of the Feldheer and the Ersatzheer. Some KStN went through several changes and updates during the war which makes it difficult to determine which correction or update was valid at a certain time. Normally a KStN has a date when it was issued but some have handwritten corrections which are confusing sometimes but I guess future research will solve some unclear matters.

you can see what a real KStN looks like if you visit the link.

"Stellengruppe" is basicly what rank fills that slot or billit as its often refured to. (its what the red, blue, gray and green letterd boxs are -it lists them at the top of the page.)

You do have to keep in mind that this in not just showing you how meny men are in that unit its showing you each ones jobs as well.


heres a few some pointers on how to understand what the "charts" are. (note: any one next to a red "box" is an officer) -this should come in handy if you dont "read" german (like me). -I learnd these via web translator which is to say not the best way of doing things.

Kompanieführer = Company commander
Zugführer = Platoon Commander (in the german army it can be an officer or an senior NCO typicly by 1944 its an senior NCO, Zug= platoon)
Gruppenführer = Squad leader
Melder = Runner or mesanger.
Sanitätsunteroffizier = Medical NCO (unteroffizier =NCO, Sanitäts = medical)
stroß = Train of one type or another. (bagage, muntions and the like)
Instandsetzungsgruppe =is basicly a repair unit
schwerer=Heavy
Funker = Radiomen (funk = radio)
Krankenträger = stratcher barrer (basicly your platoon level medic)
Fernsprecher = telophone
Stab = HQ
Nachrichten = Comunications
Aufklärungs = Reconisence
Erkunder = scout (you see this unit in Panzer HQ companys)