[1.4 Allied] Warmachine is OP

[haido]

Im going to give you a tip if youre playing allies on vire river valley. Both players go armour, its an instant win. Why? Because Warmachine is op. When you have 2 pershings and some tanks which often happens on Vire River Valley the allies can't loose with allied warmachine. Not even against 2 tiger aces / 4 blitzkrieg tigers and other tanks together. Which is kind of strange.

I just feel the Warmachine needs some kind of nerf. A shorter time of effectivity. Not one minute or whatever the time is now, maybe 30 seconds or something.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

if war machine is powerful on vire river valley it's because of the huge amount of munitions on that map.

the upshot of that is that the axis have bucketloads of artillery that they can throw, plus the global abilities (such as Blitzkrieg, For The Fatherland, and Inspired Assault.) You can also use goliaths to harass.

if someone is tank-spamming you on Vire, use tank traps to limit their ability to overrun you. You can even back off and let war machine run its course if you can constrain the tank mass.

[Starfisher]

Vire generates more balance complaints than any other map, which leads me to believe that the map is the problem, not the ability.

[exe163]

war machine is no different than Sherman smoke, you dont hit them when the effect is on, try to back up to minimize the half dead tank, or you can always target another full health tank, sometimes its not really a rip off to kill a tank with 3 venterency lv and they get a fresh one

[Pak88mm]

by the time you have it they have 2 tigers and well yeah.

[haido]

Yeah, i guess it's just a map thing like you say Starfisher. It's a map where resources go wild bonanza and therefore unusual things happen like Warmachine on warmachine on warmachine .

[Mistenth]

250 munitions isn't that expensive for its duration and effect. The nearest comparable Axis ability, Blitzkreig, although 150 munitions, has a much shorter time effect.

[haido]

Or a much longer you mean, you get 900 MP for freezing your economy in three minutes which half of the times isn't worth it.

[Brat_Boy]

I just think that war machine's cost needs to be upped. Maybe to 350. Yes, it's a lot, but it can make an armored assault win rather than lose.

[CRABASSAULT]

That you are playing Vire tells me you just need to play some more and pick up some experience.

[Virtual]

going infantry on vire would be better thou =P

blame the map

[Lezt00]

lol if they are both armour, then it is easy to win on vire, keep goliath on bridges and some ready to blow them up again, and have one axis being defensive, building, 4 flak88 in the parmeter, the other player can be blitz or terror, have loads of AT gun, or panthers. use snipers to scout the allied parameter and kill all tanks with the long ranged 88s, and dont forget to build repair bunkers. basically kill the 16 shermans, and 4 pershings and the allied base is open for a grenadier panzerfast attack or panther counter with V1

[Viper Strike]

yea , if both allies are armour... hello Flak 88.

[Mistenth]

Calliope Barrage owns Flak88s, but Vire is kinda open so yea interesting.

[haido]

yes, and then take your 2 pershings and 2 pershings 4-5 shermans run along with your teammates that have just as much .activate your Warmachine and plasma fields and destroy some 88's die horribly get every tank back and rince and repeat. Since you basically loose no resources you do it all over again with about 1 minute intervalls.

"That you are playing Vire tells me you just need to play some more and pick up some experience."

Hearing you saying that tells me two things that you dont know and that you havn't played vire river valley that much.

[Demonic Spoon]

Actually, 88s have a longer range than Calliopes I believe. If you are properly spotting for the 88, it should blow the calliope away.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

^ At the very least, long range calliope fire isn't very deadly to sandbagged 88s.

[Demonic Spoon]

really now? Sandbags help with this?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Yeah. They'll block much of the damage from near misses.

[Demonic Spoon]

that makes sense...

[Lezt00]

haido,

you will be supprised how fast 4 88s and 4~ at guns suported with panthers can chew up any armour force.

been there, tried that, had have 8 shermans charging over with 3 pershings and respawned, they are all killable esp when they are v1ed when they cross the center of the map.

for 2 axis to have 6 at guns, 4 88s, 2 panthers is 4820mp +560 fuel,

for 2 allies to get 8 shermans + 4 pershing is 6960mp +720 fuel, and 500 mun for respawn. -> a much more costly force

[haido]

Well, maybe you might perhaps think that i loose against this combo and that's why im whining. The fact is that i've encountered it twice and lost both times and the other times around 6-7 ive won hands down.

Thats why im saying its op.

[Kratos]

Allyed warmachine is a freaking goold ability, but should be reduced, to about recycle one tank and not the freaking army.
Select all tanks and sent them in no matter what, if it gets close push the recycle button and there you go for a second attack.

[Blitzen]

I believe its the map more then anything. On vire each side has equal resources. Yes the germans have much more land to cover. If you look at the locations of the bridges, its like this
| (2) == | (3)
| |
| == |
| |
| (1) == |(4)
**Edit, it won't post the map properly, so you'll have to look it up or trust me, ;)**
The allies would be on the left. See, the german (player 4) will try to rush his bridge, but the allied play will be able to wire it off. However, the allied player 1, (if i didn't mix em up) will easily be able to cross his bridge. Therefore, the allies will always be able to get to the german side, while the germans will rarely, only against noobs, be able to make it to the allies side. It takes the germans longer to send men to the river to. In all, this map favours the allies.

[Lezt00]

haido, all i am saying it is dealable. only that you have to think outside the box. it takes quite some time to build up that tank force, if both of them go armour, their base defence will be weak, and they don't have any artillery cept the calliope. you have either, firestorm or v1 and newb + stukas.

[Sturmhaubitze]

I'll have to do some testing, but I think that placing the FlaK 36 such that its max range is reached at the center of the river is the best spot. This way it doesn't give its position away until the enemy is slogging through the river, and a Calliope would have to drive all the way across the river and get up onto land before it can barrage. Then you position your tanks on dry land, so that they can hit anything in the river, and any tanks that try to assault you will get blown to bits by the combination of StuG/Panther IV/Panther/Tiger/FlaK36 fire. Some Nebelwerfer/Walking Stuka/Mortars on the ridge, firing on the river, will make short work of any infantry and light vehicles that try to support the tank assault.

A 105mm howitzer built by the river will still reach the Flak 36, but at least the Calliope stands little chance of killing it.

[Lezt00]

actually, i think placing the 88s on the cliff and mirror the position on the other side is the best, once the calliope fires, even if it can kill one gun, the other 3 will give it a bad headache, now if you have even one more held back somewhere. the problem of placing them a bit too back is that the allies can choose either to go left, right or center once they get through and only have 2~3 of the 4~5 88s dealing with them

[KDR_11k]

Vire River is CoH's Speed Metal, one big high-ressources porcfest.

[Demon_Eyes]

Warmachine has been talked about before, should look up that thread for some good info on how to deal with it, basically retarget healthy tanks so that you do not kill them while it is active, move away so they waste it or target ground to keep from destroying the tanks while it is active if it is near the end.

[DsrtEagle]

Im going to give you a tip if youre playing allies on vire river valley. Both players go armour, its an instant win. Why? Because Warmachine is op. When you have 2 pershings and some tanks which often happens on Vire River Valley the allies can't loose with allied warmachine. Not even against 2 tiger aces / 4 blitzkrieg tigers and other tanks together. Which is kind of strange.

I just feel the Warmachine needs some kind of nerf. A shorter time of effectivity. Not one minute or whatever the time is now, maybe 30 seconds or something.

Any good axis players will not let you get so far as to have Perhsings running around on Vire River Valley map. Good Aixs players will have you to busy spending resourses to hold your side of the river...:)

[Sn1tch]

Vire generates more balance complaints than any other map, which leads me to believe that the map is the problem, not the ability.

Eh? The map isn't really unbalanced considering it's pretty much mirror'd, however, the main allies used and dominate strat is to block off the bridges, middle and build howitzers and nuke the enemy base.

The map is a battle of artillery, not skill or micro.