German firearms Vs American firearms (reality)

[Genghis_Kan]

German Firearms
Karabiner 98 Kurz(K98K)
Cartridge 8 mm Mauser
Action Bolt-action
Rate of fire Approx. 15 round/min
Muzzle velocity 745 m/s
Effective range 500 m (800m with scope for sniper)
Feed system 5-round stripper clip, internal magazine
Sturmgewehr 44(StG44)
Cartridge 7.92 mm Kurz
Action Gas-operated, tilting bolt
Rate of fire 500-600 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 685 m/s
Effective range 300 meters
Feed system 30-round detachable box magazine
Maschinenpistole 40(MP40)
Cartridge 9 x 19 mm
Action Open bolt blowback
Rate of fire 500 round/min
Muzzle velocity ~380 m/s
Effective range ~ 100 m
Feed system 32 round detachable box magazine
Maschinengewehr 42(MG42)
Cartridge 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser (8 mm Mauser)
Action Recoil-operated, roller-locked bolt
Rate of fire 1,100–1,200 round/min
Muzzle velocity 755 m/s
Effective range 1,000 m
Feed system 50- or 250-round belt
MG 34 (LMG)
Cartridge 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser (8 mm Mauser)
Action Recoil operated
Rate of fire 800-900round/min
Feed system 50/200-round belts or 75-round drum magazine
Sights Iron sights
ZB vz. 26(LMG)
Action gas operated, piston w/ tilting breechblock
Rate of fire ~ 500 round/min
Muzzle velocity 744 m/s
Effective range 1000 m
Feed system 30 round magazine

American Firearms
Browning Automatic Rifle
Cartridge .30-06 Springfield
Action Gas-operated, open bolt
Rate of fire 300–650 round/min
Muzzle velocity 805 m/s
Effective range 548 m
Feed system 20-round detachable box magazine
M1 Carbine
Cartridge .30 Carbine
Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt
Rate of fire Semi-automatic (M1/A1);
850–900 round/min (M2/M3)
Muzzle velocity 600 m/s
Effective range 175–275 m
Feed system 15- or 30-round detachable box magazine
M1 Garand
Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (7.62 × 63 mm);
Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt
Rate of fire 16–24 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 865 m/s
Effective range 550 m
Feed system 8-round "en bloc" clip (.30-06), internal magazine
Thompson submachine gun
Cartridge .45 ACP (11.43 × 23 mm)
Action Blowback-operated (M1/M1A1)
Rate of fire 600-800 rpm, depending upon model
Feed system 20- or 30-round detachable box magazine; 50- or 100-round drum magazine
Browning Model 1919
Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (U.S.)
Action Recoil-operated
Rate of fire 400–600 round/min
Effective range 1,370 m (maximum)
Feed system 250-round belt

Suggestion to changes
From the stats above the American MG acutally got a great range than MG42, however, MG42 got a higher rate of fire. Therefore MG42 should get a greater pin and damages but reload more often due to high rate of fire.
On the other hand, the American MG should get a great range than the MG42
If Kornstalx is right then this should be the same for LMG & BAR

Furthermore the range of a sniper should be shorter than a MG but sniper is less likely to be pinned by the MG

Hopefully this would be useful to modder :D

[Partizan]

you are using the wrong gun for the LMG. it's the LMG42 which was a variant of the MG42 with a 50 or 75 ammo clip (can't exactly remember). Hence, it should be significantly better at pinning than the BAR (20 round clip). Other than that, thx for all the info :)

[Kornstalx]

Why is it everyone gets this wrong. The typical German Light machine gun for an infantry squad was the MG34, akin to modern American infantry squads equipped with a SAW, or squad automatic weapon.

Yes, the Czech ZB vz. 26 was certainly used, but the grenadier upgrade in this game is more probably the MG34.

MG 34 Light Machine Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG34)

This is nothing like the heavier MG42. I've seen lots of people mix up their firearms all over these forums.

The MP40 is a submachinegun.
The MP44 is an assault rifle.
The StG44 is another name for the MP44, they are effectively the same weapon.
The MG42 is a heavy machinegun, with specialized uses.
The MG34 is a 'light' machinegun, and is very, very different from the MG42.

There is no such thing as an 'LMG'42.

[Noir]

/me doesn't get why the OP posted the RL stats of all the weapons when he only meant to discuss the MGs.

[evotech]

Yes, the Czech ZB vz. 26 was certainly used, but the grenadier upgrade in this game is more probably the MG34.



In the game it says "LMG42" so why dont you just be quiet

[Kornstalx]

In the game it says "LMG42"

Yes, it does. But I stated this from the assumption that the OP made, that the Grenadier upgrade was in fact a different weapon entirely. The terms "light" and "heavy" are situational, depending on how the weapon was actually employed. To quote a wiki on the MG42:

"The MG42 weighed 11.6 kg in the "light" role with the bipod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipod), lighter than the MG34 and easily portable. The bipod, the same one used on the MG34, could be mounted to the front or the center of the gun depending on where it was being used. For sustained fire use, it was matched to the newly-developed Lafette 42 tripod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripod), which weighed 20.5 kg on its own. The barrel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_barrel) was lighter than the MG34's and heated more quickly, but could be replaced in seconds by an experienced gunner."

If you do the research, the MG34 was much more likely to be the weapon used by non-specialized infantry such as grenadiers. But I suppose the ingame text tells us otherwise.

[Archer2338]

Kornstalx is right, there's no LMG42.
The "light" version of the MG42 is a MG42 with a bipod.
The "heavy" MG42 is a tripod mounted version.

EDIT: Aw, he beat me to it.

[tuffy!]

I think in the game they meant it to be the mg42 with bipod then, as opposed to the mg34.
Though personally i think they shouldve made it the mg34 just for variety's sake.

[Phazon]

I was disappointed when I saw there was no MG34 in CoH ever since I saw the Axis infantry video depicting the Grenadier using an MG42.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

I seem to recall lots of 'assault' mg42s in close combat 3.

[RedDevil]

You want the BAR to have a greater pin + damage?

And you want a sniper to have a shorter range than a machinegun?

[Sturmhaubitze]

The typical "LMG" for a Grenadier or PanzerGrenadier squad was either the MG34 in the early to mid stages of the war, or the MG42 from late 1942 onwards. MG34's and MG42's were used interchangeably in this role, depending upon whether the squad got the newer equipment or not (Not every platoon got the latest equipment, especially if you still had working versions of older weapons). MG34's continued to see usage all the way to the end of the war, especially since they were commonly used as hull and coaxial mounted MGs in tanks.

The MG34 and MG42 were GPMGs, General Purpose Machine Guns. They could be used as either LMGs in a squad, or MMGs/HMGs with a tripod. This was part of why they were so revolutionary, since no other army of the period had an MG that could fulfill so many roles.

As for the MP44/StG44 confusion, these are indeed the same weapon. The MP (Machinepistol) abbreviation was used to sneak it by Hitler, as he was biased against the idea of a weapon using a shortened rifle cartridge. However experience on the Eastern Front showed that the usual range for firefights was 500m or less, and the shortened cartridge of the StG44 was still accurate at that range. When all the Grenadier Kompanies that had a chance to fieldtest it clamoured for more of them, Hitler finally caved in. The '44' number is a bit misleading, as it was already in use before 1944, it just got renamed to StG in 44.

[Pak88mm]

Reality says Volksgrenadiers outta be oufitted with G43 semi auto rifles.

[Twitch2396]

The G43 was a very late entry into the war, it was made in response to the American M1. Therefore Volksgrenadiers probably would not be equiped with this weapon very often.

[Valbruch]

Gewehr 43s were not too widely spread during WWII. Only some regiments of wehrmacht were equipped with them. Towards the end of the war, Germans really did start to replace good old kar98 with other weapons, bud MP40s and MP44s were usually prefered. Germans had serious difficulties developing semi-automatic rifles, so G43 were given to more experienced soldiers. So, if anyone should have them, then Grenadiers or Stormtroopers are the ones. It would be cool i guess

[$$Buck-Naked$$]

The MG42 was such a good machinegun that it's still used today.

[Twitch2396]

Who the hell still uses the Mg42???

Plus you could say the same thing about the BAR or the Browning 50. The BAR 1918 was used until the late 70's early 80's, and the Browning which was intoduced right after WW1 is still in use today.

[Genghis_Kan]

actually K98 is still being widely used at the end of the war because it is so reliable and still can be used in extreme conditions

[Unkn0wn]

Twitch, it indeed exists, it just got a different name and slightly altered look:
the MG3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG3

Surely you can tell it looks pretty much the same ;).

And check users, ALOT of countries use it today.
(Germany being one of them)



As for the LMG, it indeed did not exist but the reason why they put it in is because in reality every Gruppe (Axis Squad) had an MG team and this was the true firepower of the squad.

You also had the sole mg teams (usually 3 men) but truth is those generally just manned bunkers and whatnot. Theres no such thing as a "specialised mg team" since the person assigned MG in his gruppe IS specialised. (Therefor the mg gunner was most commonly an NCO, he also had a feeder and a spotter both carrying rifles)

Early war the mg34 was THE weapon they used but obviously by the end of the war most squads had switched to the mg42. Untill recycling kicked in then you pretty much saw every kind of weapon. None the less it is SAFE to assume most mg gunners had an mg42 by end war, not an mg34.

[theBlind]

Who the hell still uses the Mg42???

"Chile, Dennmark, Italy, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Norway, Austria, Portuguese and Turkey. clones are built in Yugoslavia and other countries."
from world.guns.ru
EDIT: Wikipedias list is even longer.

The funny thing is that the after-war MG3 (which is in use today) is a copy (with NATO standart 7.62mm ammo instead of the old mauser 7.92mm rounds) of the MG42

[Pak88mm]

g43 as stated entered in late 43. By late 43 early 44 the 1st volksgrenadier divisions were set up. These recieved the 1st batch of G43s and Stg44s. Elite troops rarely got a hold of these new weapons. Hitler had authorized to make up for the lack of experience the new VG would have they would be given priorty for better firepower. So they in turn got any new G43s or Stg44s before anyone else. So yes they were plenty to go around...just for the VG.


Who the hell still uses the Mg42???

Plus you could say the same thing about the BAR or the Browning 50. The BAR 1918 was used until the late 70's early 80's, and the Browning which was intoduced right after WW1 is still in use today.
there was no replacement for the BAR. It was meant to be a light mg intergrated into squads to give em support like an mg would. But with the introduction of assault rifles this wasnt really necessary. Considering how also the BAR weight a ton, had short clip capicity and couldnt really sustain fire that long. Mg34 and Mg42 did a far better job thatn the BAR ever did the german Mgs were universal and not put into light, medium and heave categories unlike other armies (ex. BAR, .30cal., .50 cal)