[DC 1.11]Eldar accuracies (bonuses and penalties)

[Sabin76]

Ranger accuracy: Last I heard it was 1.0 or 100%, but now I've seen more than one replay of really high level players guiding their rangers, and I just don't know.
I guess if any of the .LUA people could get on here and confirm that it is still 1.0.

I tend ot think it is still 100% because the dps for the long rifle in T1 is 3.0 for building_low and I've seen them do exactly 15 damage a shot (with 5 second reload
if I'm not mistaken). So that means "yes, it's still 1.0" (again, unless I'm mistaken).

As a matter of fact, since Eldar have the spell "guide" in the first place, I think it would be great if someone could give us all the accuracy values of all the Eldar
troops and how much accuracy guide buffs (I remember something like 30%...?). Also, it would be great to know if the FoF penalty stacks with the FOTM penalty
or if FOTM overrides it.

Pretty please?

Everything past this point is an edit...
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Alright, so now that I have all of the stuff necessary, I'd like to make this thread an information source for Eldar players concerning guide and FoF (Fleet of Foot).
Most Eldar players (and even non-Eldar players) know this stuff qulitatively, but I wanted to make it more quantitative.
So, without further ado, here's the gist on Eldar accuracies including bonuses and penalties.

As Maktaka pointed out on page 2, there are two types of bonuses/reductions: additive and multiplicitive.
Contrary to normal mathmatical methods the former will happen before the latter in all cases (just remember that it's counter-intuitive).

ADDITIVE BONUSES/REDUCTIONS:
There are 2 additive bonuses/reductions that an eldar player will have to worry about throughout the game.
Namely, the Farseer spell "guide" and the "fire on the move" penalty (from now on called FoTM).

FoTM:
The actual numerical reduction for FoTM depends on the units standing accuracy, but suffice it to say that FoTM reduces all units that can actually fire on the move
to 10% accuracy or 0.100 (you will see why I stray from percentage values here later). This is an absolute number, meaning that any unit moving will only hit 1 out of
10 shots regardless of how good thier standing accuracy is.

Guide:
Guide will increase the accuracy of any squad by 0.300. However, this bonus, as logic would dictate, will not increase a squads accuracy past 1.000.
For example: Guiding a squad of Guardians will bring their accuracy from 0.700 to 1.000, but guiding a squad of Rangers will do nothing as they already have 1.000 accuracy.

What it means:
While it's easy to see that using guide on a standing squad does what you expect it to do, we also see that not all squads benefit from it. There are, however, other benefits
as well. As you can see from above, a moving squad with guide will have 40% accuracy. Please note that accuracy is directly tied into damage per second (dps). 40% is 4
times more than 10% which means the dps are 4 times higher for the guided squad. That is a very respectable number. As a matter of fact, if you find that you are getting
danced, or need to dance a squad that can FoTM, guide will work wonders on the amount of damage that squad can do.
A note here: the FoTM penalty is, as I said, a set amount dependant on the unit. Therefore, guide will always stack with it and give 0.400 accuracy to any moving unit
that can FoTM.

MULTIPLICITIVE REDUCTIONS:
There is only one multiplicitive reduction that Eldar player will have to worry about - Fleet of Foot (hereby called FoF). Note that the Grav. Plaform ability "Gravitic Booster"
does the exact same thing as FoF. Because of this, I will use the FoF abbreviation to mean both Fleet of Foot and Gravitic Booster. Everyone knows FoF is an absolute must
buy, as Eldar troops are notoriously fragile. It also helps them fill out thier "most mobile race" role nicely. Most people also know that it affects accuracy. "By how much,"
you ask? I'm glad you did. The FoF penalty is 50%. As I've stated before, multiplicitive modifiers are applied after all of the additive modifiers, hence the use of percentages
here. With FoF turned on your standing squad of guided guardians that had 1.000 accuracy now only have 0.500 accuracy (half of 1.000), while your moving guided guardians
now only have 0.200 accuracy (half of 0.400).

IMPORTANT: FoF and guide also affect Close Combat (CC) weapons!! So your Banshees and Farseer also do half the dps that they would in CC with FoF turned on and/or
get 0.300 added to thier accuracy with guide. On the other hand, FoTM does NOT affect CC weapons as the unit must be stationary to initiate a CC attack anyway.

And now for a huge table with all the accuracies you'll ever need to know about Eldar squads...



***NOTE***
This is true for all units and weapons!!
Accuracy w/ guide: base accuracy + 0.300 to a max of 1.00
Accuracy w/ FoF: (base accuracy)/2 ***never do this if you can help it***

This is true for all units and weapons that can fire on the move!!
Accuracy while moving: 0.100 (10%)
Accuracy while moving with guide: 0.400 (40%)
Accuracy while moving with FoF: 0.050 (5%)
Accuracy while moving with guide and FoF: 0.200 (20%)

Going in Alphabetical Order:

Bonesinger (Eldar Sword)
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Dark Reaper (Reaper Launcher)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.600 (60%)
FoTM: no

Dark Reaper (Shuriken Cannon)
*Exarch only, but not used as far as I can tell*
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Dark Reaper (Eldar Knife)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Farseer (Eldar Witchblade)
Base Accuracy: 1.000 (100%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Farseer (Shuriken Pistol)
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Fire Dragon (Fusion Gun)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.600 (60%)
FoTM: no

Fire Dragon (Eldar Knife)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Grav Platform (Brightlance)
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: no

Grav Platform (Shuriken Cannon)
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: no

Guardian (Shuriken Catapult)
*Warlock NOT included*
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Guardian (Eldar Knife)
*Warlock NOT included*
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Harlequin (Eldar Shrieker Cannon)
Base Accuracy: 0.800 (80%)
FoTM: yes

Harlequin (Riverblade)
Base Accuracy: 1.000 (100%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Howling Banshee (Shuriken Pistol)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Howling Banshee (Power Sword/Executioner)
*Exarch included*
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Rangers (Long Rifle)
Base Accuracy: 1.000 (100%)
FoTM: no

Rangers (Eldar Knife)
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Seer Council (Shuriken Pistol)
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Seer Council (Witchblade)
Base Accuracy: 0.800 (80%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Warlock (Shuiken Pistol)
Base Accuracy: 0.700 (70%)
FoTM: yes

Warlock (Eldar Sword/Power Sword)
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Warlock (Witchblade)
Base Accuracy: 0.800 (80%)
FoTM: no (CC)

Warp Spider (Death Spinner)
*Exarch included until Hawire Gredandes are researched*
Base Accuracy: 0.650 (65%)
FoTM: yes

Warp Spider (Dual Death Spinners)
*Exarch only, but only after Haywire Grenades are researched*
Base Accuracy: 0.800 (80%)
FoTM: yes

And there you have it. A complete list of the accuracies of all weapons and units that can be guided. I hope Eldar players will find this guide helpful.

[Elferx]

I also have no idea.

Guide works in either 2 ways

1) Seemingly increase the DPS of units in the gameplay. You will observe Reapers dramatically causes more damage to units which seems wierd for increased accuracy.

2) DPS remains the same but increase accuracy means you does more damage because you hit more often which seems kind of confusing with DPS. The game engine is still a big secret.

I would also like to enquire how does Guide stack with FoF? I read patch readme and it states guide gives a trememdous amount of percentile accuracy bonus. If FoF is just 50% penalty, Guide will definately negate and even enhance the accuracy of FoF units.
Imagine Banshees with FoF and Guide chasing and CCing units. Dancing will be impossible. :D

[Sabin76]

Accuracy ties into dps, that I am sure of. Just read the DC dps thread and you will see the equation to get dps includes accuracy. Therefore, increasing accuracy will in fact increase dps.
I'll say again that the last I heard was that rangers had 100% accuracy, guide provided +30% accuracy, and FoF gave -50% accuracy, but that was in WA and that's all I "know" as far as this thread is concerned. Request still stands.

[Sabin76]

First off, sorry for the double post.
Ok, now that that's out of the way... Happy New year from Tokyo.

(alright, alright, enough stalling...)

So, since no one's going to help me out with the actual stats, would someone mind telling me or showing me how I might go about finding out for myself? I assume I need a program to read the .luas, no?

[ImmortalChaos]

I don't thing they have 100% accuracy because sometimes I swear they miss... But I don't know the numbers so I could be wrong.

[Pukkun]

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=119850

Thread with everything you need for modding, LUAs included.

You don't really need a special program to read LUA ,though, since it's plain text.

Anyway DC Long rifles:

GameData["accuracy"] = 1.00000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 1.00000

Yes, it's still 1.0 through all tiers.

[ImmortalChaos]

Perhaps my misses are when 2 (or more) rangers target the same member of a squad then...

[Pukkun]

Well they should still hit the target...maybe the target had funky armor-reduction or whatever...

Anyway:

Farseer Guide boosts accuracy by 0.3 (30%) and lasts 25 seconds.
Fleet of Foot reduces all accuracies by 0.5 (50%).

Oh and FoF accuracy reduction does not seem to stack, or at least add with the FOTM value.


You see Guide has this interesting bit of code:
scroll to the right


GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_01"]["modifier"]["application_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_squad.lua]])
GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_01"]["modifier"]["usage_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierusagetype\tp_mod_usage_addition.lua]])
GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_01"]["modifier"]["value"] = 0.30000

FoF on the other hand:


GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_02"]["modifier"] = Reference([[modifiers\entity_accuracy_modifier.lua]])
GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_02"]["modifier"]["application_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_squad.lua]])
GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"]["modifier_02"]["modifier"]["value"] = 0.50000

FOTM might be additive though...
Anyway, Guide adds accuracy, which means you can ease out accuracy penalties like FoF...


Last but not least, the Weapon accuracy list:


Weapon accuracy list:


Eldar Deathspinners (all of them):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.65000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.55000

Eldar Executioner:
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.65000

Eldar Fusion Gun (all):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.60000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.60000

Eldar Reaper Launcher (all):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.60000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.60000

Eldar Knives (all):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.65000

Eldar Long Rifle:
GameData["accuracy"] = 1.00000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 1.00000

Eldar Shuriken Pistols (all of them, even FS):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.70000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.60000

Eldar Shuriken Catapults :
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.70000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.60000

Eldar Power Swords (all):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.65000

Eldar Riveblade:
GameData["accuracy"] = 1.00000

Eldar Wailing Doom:
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.70000

Eldar Witchblade Farseer:
Eldar Singing Spear Farseer:
GameData["accuracy"] = 1.00000

Eldar Witchblades (all other):
GameData["accuracy"] = 0.80000


Those should be all guide-able weapons...

[MasterChef]

You can guide the Wailing Doom? And further more, It only is at 0.70000 accuracy?

Learn something every day i suppose...

[Question]

Im fairly sure guide increases damage or something. Because all commanders have full accuracy and guiding a farseer gives a significant damage increase.......or at least it did the last time i checked in WA.

[Sabin76]

Thanks so much Pukkun for the list.
I didn't know that the Harlies had 100% accuracy... hmmm.
The executioner is CC, right? So it makes sense that it doesn't have a FoTM penalty.
Also, it seems like the Fusion gun entry is missing. If I have time I'll post that one up.
Again, thanks... this will be really helpful!

Ok, I just checked the .lua for the fusion gun and it seems to inherit the stats from the reaper launcher before being modified by the entry. Therefore, the fusion gun has an accuracy of .60 which is the same as a DR.

[Elferx]

So if i guide and fof, Banshees will have 70% accuracy. Sounds like a good idea.

[Daykeras]

I think their Accuracy will be closer to 45%

[Aron_DeTomado]

Unless the guide buff overrides accuracy penalites rather than acting in conjunction with them. ie. FoF and moving penalities are ignored AND the squad gets the guide bonus.
Though I think they either fixed that in a patch, or it was in a mod and never an issue in the official version.
Hmm... Maybe you shouldn't pay attension to me...

[Pukkun]

The executioner is CC, right? So it makes sense that it doesn't have a FoTM penalty.
Yes, it makes sense, of course.
The thing is I never really bothered checking LUAs before, that's why I was a bit surprised, since it was the first CC weapon I looked at after seeing a few ranged ones.

Oh and I did include the Fusion Gun :P hehe
I guess I should have made it clearer that it's the same as the Reaper Launchers, though.
Time to rectify that.
Edit: I just gave it it's own entry, looks better that way.

[Sabin76]

Ahh I see what you were doing with the fusion gun (now that you've fixed it ;))
I still can't make heads or tails of the FoF and Guide LUAs. It seems that the only difference is that the FoF one doesn't have a ["usage_type"] line, but I con't figure out what that would do. Other than that they are identical (the reference at the top of FoF leads to a nil, so I assume that's nothing). Any thoughts on that?

[Maktaka]

Guide is an additive bonus, so 50% acc becomes 80% (and the Farseer goes from 70% to 100% woot!). Guide effects both ranged and melee weapons.

FotM is likewise an additive bonus (well, subtractive if that's even a word). So with Guide on and while running, your troops have 40% acc, not just 10%. More woot.

Fleet of foot is a multiplicative modifier. Multiplicative modifiers are applied AFTER additive and are applied simultaneously (i.e. (base+add1+add2)*mult1*mult2 rather than (base+add1+add2)*(mult1+mult2)). That first bit is really easy to check using GM (who have additive and multiplicative armor bonuses) and the second can be checked using resource researches (easy to see the multipliers at work). All this means that using FoF with Guide active gives you +15% acc.

An example:

Guardian Shuriken Catapults: 70%
while running: 10% (70-60)
while running with FoF: 5% ((70-60)*0.5)
standing with FoF: 35% (70*0.5)

Guardian Shuriken Catapults with Guide: 100%
while running: 40% (70+30-60)
while running with FoF: 20%((70+30-60)*0.5)
standing with FoF: 50% (100*0.5)

As you can see, this makes Guardians do quadruple damage while running. Warp Spiders and Banshees likewise do quad damage while running, so that's another batch of woot for the eldar.

Using Guide on Rangers is completely pointless. Rangers are already at 100% acc and over 100% does nothing. Rangers cannot fire on the move, so Guide doesn't help there. It helps when FoF is active, but good micro means you shouldn't be trying to fire with Rangers while FoF is on. The only time Guide does anything is when their morale is broken (which cause 20% of the normal acc) so they'd have 26% acc instead of just 20%.

There are a couple other 100% acc weapons in the Eldar infantry forces as well: Farseer melee, Harlequin melee, and Seer council melee (but not Warlock melee). The rest of the Eldar arsenal is at most 70% so you're guaranteed to get the full benefit of Guide on everything else, ranged and melee.

[Sabin76]

Thank you Maktaka for that lesson. Now everything falls into place and this thread has served it's purpose. If you don't mind, I will be editing my first post shortly with all of the information I have gathered with this here wonderful thread.

[Pukkun]

Ah, I almost couldn't find the thread because of the title change =P.
Anyway, thanks for the summarization, it's really useful/informative and thank you Maktaka...you cleared things up.

About the Reaper-Hardpoints:
Someone (can't remember =/) wrote that Exarchs now come with Shuriken Cannons right off the bat, unlike vanilla DoW.
The Reaper Launcher the Exarchs are carrying are simply the wrong models...

I guess it's the same with the Spiders who always carry the Double-Spinners but use the single model.

I can't guarantee the correctness of this information, but it looks right because of the behaviour of those troops.

[Sabin76]

An easy way to check is to see if the Reaper exarch fires on the move as the Shuriken Cannon has 0.700 accuracy and 0.600 FOTM penalty. Unless there is some other form of code that I didn't see that makes it not fire. As far as I can remember, the DR exarch doesn't fire on the move so that would mean he only has the reaper launcher. I think those two weapons (the reaper launcher and the dual spinner) were left over from DoW and for some reason not removed from the unit code.

I'm still pretty sure that the DR exarch uses the reaper launcher and the WS exarch uses a death spinner.

[Pukkun]

Hm, but the DR Exarchs in DoW couldn't fire on the move either, and they had Shuriken Cannons, too...
I'm curious now...I'll go and give him another weapon, maybe a Brightlance or something, that should clear things up.
:D

[Sabin76]

I don't know... I could have sworn at one point I saw the exarch (and only the exarch) firing on the move. I didn't play WA when DRs could fire on the move so that wasn't it.

In any case, the ranger code shows that the basic weapon is under [weapon_01]. There is a line of code in the optics research lua that modifies this number:


GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_03"] = Reference([[modifiers\default_weapon_modifier_hardpoint1.lua]])
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_03"]["target_type_name"] = "eldar_rangers"

which references this:

GameData["application_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_entity_type.lua]])
GameData["usage_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierusagetype\tp_mod_usage_addition.lua]])

and this:

GameData["application_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_entity.lua]])
GameData["exclusive"] = false
GameData["modifier_class_name"] = Reference([[type_modifier\tp_modifier.lua]])
GameData["probability_of_applying"] = 1.00000
GameData["target_type_name"] = ""
GameData["usage_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierusagetype\tp_mod_usage_multiplication.lua]])
GameData["value"] = 1.00000


From what I can gather that last part is the important one GameData["value"] = 1.00000. Along with the change from multiplication to addition.
We now know that the ranger rifle changes with this code, and I can't seem to find any similar code for the DRs or WSs which leads me to believe that they only use thier [weapon_01]. Namely, the reaper launcher and death spinner respectively.

Then again, I don't want to stop you from putting a BL on your DR exarch... that sounds like fun ;).

[Pukkun]

You're right. They only use weapon_1... and the BL thing was fun, indeed. :D
I didn't rely on the optics upgrade, though. I jus tassumed that the WS/DR Exarch gets the Dark Omen/Deathspinner thingie for free.
Guess I was wrong, no more Shuriken Cannon for the Reapers :|

[Maktaka]

Dark Reaper Exarchs still have the code in place for their weapon to be upgraded from a reaper launcher to the shuriken cannon, but I can't find anything that would indicate they're using anything but the simple reaper launcher exarch-edition. The exarch reaper launcher has 60% acc and 60% acc reduction while moving, so it was probably just a trick of the light or something. As a sign that the shuriken cannnon is unused despite its presence in the code, consider that there is a reaper launch for the reaper exarch honor guard you can pick up in the Eldar campaign, but no shuriken cannon for them.

Warp Spider Exarchs start off with their own version of the Deathspinner, but researching Haywire Bombs swaps this out for the Dual Deathspinner. The Dual Deathspinners have 85% acc (compared to 65% on the normal deathspinner of the exarch) but lower base damage. In general, the Duals are only slightly more powerful than the singleton the exarch had before except against infantry_heavy_high (around double the damage) and monster_medium (around 25% more damage). A nice bit of extra punch against Terminators, Possessed, and Ogryns mostly.

Numbers are fun! Especially when they're really high numbers for your DPS.

[Sabin76]

but researching Haywire Bombs swaps this out for the Dual Deathspinner.
Whoa, I did NOT see that!
I just check and, yes you are right. The Haywire upgrade does, indeed, change out the WS exarch's weapon. Time for an edit!