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Slow_Runner
31st Mar 07, 1:56 PM
Ok. In this thread we will gather up nobrainer fixes. Now you ask yourself what a nobrainer fix is. Rest assured, the answer is near. *And den da winged grot Slow_Runner sat down and told all da lil' uns what a noobreener fix was.*

A nobrainer fix is something that's relatively simple to fix and does not require much debate over whether it should be fixed or not. Balance issues are not nobrainer fixes unless it's something blatantly obvious like the Crisis Suit flamer reload in 1.11. Consistency fixes, such as making IG thermals building_med or making the Tactica building_med are nobrainer fixes. If you can fix it, submit it here. If it's a "please fix bug X" without the actual fix, leave it out as well.

While submitting a fix, go into as much detail as possible and explain your problem as well as possible so that it is easy enough to fix for everyone else who reads it. And for goodness' sakes don't suggest something like "cap Warp Spiders to 2 squads" or "nerf Obliterator damage" because those are not nobrainer fixes.

EDIT: Due to the oversight list (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2223357#post2223357), I'll be limiting this list to things that can be fixed with simple mod tools. So if you can't fix it, don't post.

Without further ado, have at it.

Ze list:

GENERAL
- Tau Plasma Generator and both Imperial Guard Generators lack piercing values and minimum damage values for their death explosions resulting in no actual damage.

- The ranged_attack_range value in the squad file affects the behaviour of several units, and not in a good way. Problems arise when the value is set lower than what the range of the unit's weapons is. For a list of these units, see here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2403827#post2403827)

- No TAU, Necron or IG Vehicle do Death Explosion, differing from the 4 original races (with notable exception of the Drone Squad).
While it may be intentional for Tau (they do not like things that explode unless told so) and Necrons (high tech, and from fluff no necron unit is actually destroyed: they simply return to the tombworld), it is for sure a great missing feature for IG, notably Hellhound and Banablade (those two should left huge craters when exploding!). See here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2644157#post2644157) for a more detailed list.


CHAOS
- Chaos Marines' Frag Grenades do 0 morale damage. Their Space Marine Squad's counterpart does 20 morale damage.
Fix: Assign the Chaos Marines Squad's Frag Grenades ability a proper morale damage value.

- When Obliterators teleport, their weapons remain active without any animation for it. Fix: change "combat_enabled" on the jump bit in the squad file from "true" to "false".

- Chaos Lord's Tainted Auspex doesn't have an icon when thrown to the ground. While it's on the ground, if you click it, it will have no icon, but it did in 1.11. Fix: here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2362053#post2362053)

- Cultist Aspiring Champions have the Fear Aura to boost their squad's health but do not get the visual aura to indicate it.
Fix: In the research chaos_purge_the_weak, create a duplicate of modifier_06 at modifier_07, but with the target_type_name as chaos_aspiring_champion_cultist.

- When the Sorcerer is possessed by the Bloodthirster, there is no explosion (damage, knockback, anything other than the fountain of blood) unlike the three Aspiring Champion variants.
Fix: Duplicate the explosion info used for the possession of the Aspiring Champion for the Sorcerer.

- The daemon pit has 5 deepstrike slots, even though even in the campaign the maximum number of obliterators you can get is 3 squads. Fix: reduce "nr_available_spots" in the squad_hold_ext in the structure lua from 5 to 3.

- Chaos Lord adds 12 to the morale rate of squad, where as every other leader adds 2.
Fix: Reduce it to 2.

- The Bloodthirster (chaos_bloodthirster_research) and Daemon Prince Summoning (chaos_daemon_prince_research) researches at the Daemon Pit have no hotkey. Fix: Give them both a hotkey (how about B and D respectively?).


ELDAR
- Give the Harlequin Shrieker cannon proper armor penetration, damage and morale damage values.

- Brightlance and shuriken grav platforms are now vehicles for all intents and purposes but can't be repaired. Fix: "can_be_repaired = True" in the entity blueprint file (and max_repairers to 3 if one wants to be consistent, but max_repairers = 1 works too).

- Harlequin riverblade does 0 damage to monster_high. Fix: Give the weapon an armor piercing value against monster_high.

- CONSISTENCY: Dark Reaper exarchs are the only exarchs to benefit from the Eldar accuracy upgrades. NOTE: Balance issues to be taken into account on this one. Fix: Adjust the optics researches so that all the exarchs benefit from them equally in relation to the basic troops.

- Banshees regroup at 50 morale, while every other Eldar unit regroups at 150. Fix: Change the "broken_min_morale" value in the squad file from 50 to 150.

- The Aspect Portal returns a full 50% resources if deleted once built. The Soul Shrine returns only 10% resources if deleted once built. These should be swapped.

- Harlequin riverblade has 300 armor penetration against commanders and no morale damage. Fix: Reduce the armor piercing value against commanders to at least 100 (30 might be the correct value as well) and give it a proper morale damage value.

- There are actually two Prism Cannons on the Fire Prism and two Missile Launchers on the Hellfire. They are identical in every way and have perfect accuracy (so they both always hit the same unit) except for damage, knockback, and unit filter. The first does the damage, but only to enemies. The second only does knockback but to every unit.
The second knockback-only Prism Cannon still does morale damage though, thus the half morale damage to friendlies since enemies get hit for morale damage twice (once by each weapon).
Fix: Set the second knockback-only Prism Cannon to do no morale damage to match the damage it doesn't do.

- Shuriken Cannon Grav Platforms and Brightlance Grav Platforms do not receive bonuses/penalties from cover. The only other units unaffected by cover are Necrons.
Fix: Give both Grav Platforms cover bonuses. Not sure if that should be the cover bonuses of regular infantry, hovering infantry (e.g. ASM), vehicles, or hovering vehicles (Falcon), but they need their cover bonuses somehow.

- The Farseer's Witchblade has no AP values defined for Building_Med and Building_High. It is dealing the minimum damage value of 10 against those types.
Fix: Assign an AP value of 16 for entry_13 and entry_14 under eldar_witchblade_farseer.

- Dark Reapers' reaper launchers have no AP value defined for Daemon_High and are dealing negligible damage (0.3 DPS) to that type. This is lower than their knife damage!
Fix: Assign a proper AP value for entry_10 under eldar_reaper_launcher.

- Warp Spiders' death spinners have no AP value defined for Vehicle_High and are dealing negligible damage (0.7 DPS) to that type. This is lower than their knife damage!
Fix: Assign a proper AP value for entry_08 under eldar_deathspinner. The Exarch also inherits the same weapon, but assigns separate values from his squad members.

- Fire Dragon Exarchs have a morale death penalty of just 40, the same as regular infantry, Eldar or otherwise. All other Exarchs have a penalty of 60. Fix: Increase the Fire Dragon Exarch's morale death penalty to 60.

- Warp spiders targetting priority is vehicles _low and _med.
Fix: in the squad's sbps file under squad_combat_stance_ext\attack_priorities vehicle_low and vehicle_med are listed before infantry_heavy (both types), monster (both types), and commander armor types. Move those entries down past commander armor, and before vehicle_high.

- Eldar Plasma Grenades have a default piercing value of 0 so they just do their min damage value of 0.1 to monster_medium and monster_high armor types. Fix: Give eldar_plasma_grenades a default armor piercing value of 100.

- Harlequin's Kiss, despite not having Commander armor in the allowable target types, can still occasionally attack a commander who is attached to a squad. Although the targeting of the commander can't be fixed, the damage dealt can.
Fix: Change the min_damage_value to 0 to prevent the unit from taking 1000 damage when mistargeted (it's currently never used for the valid target types).



IG:
- Change armor type of IG thermo plasma generator and Tactica control from building_low to building_med.

- Give a minimum damage value to Guardsmen and Kasrkin sergeant swords.

- Command squad's Airstrike ability has a default piercing value of 100 and piercing values of 300 to all infantry and monster_medium and 25 to vehicle_low. All of these make little sense as vehicle_medium and _high take higher damage than vehicle_low and 300 AP is pointless because anything above 100 is wasted and 100 is the default anyway. Fix: assign proper armor piercing values to the ability and the children abilities.

- The Command Squad's Strafing Run initial shot has different aoe and damage values than all of the 31 children. The initial shot (guard_strafing_run) is aoe 7, 25-50 damage, morale 25. The children (guard_strafing_run_children and 30 inheritors) are all aoe 4, 30-60 damage, morale 40.
Fix: Since there's only one shot doing the first damage value and 31 doing the second, set the aoe and damage values of guard_strafing_run to match the second set of numbers above.

- Leman Russ left and right heavy bolters have a disparity where the right HB is doing practically no damage to buildings. Fix: Increase right heavy bolter's armor penetration against building_high to 10.778 and against building_med to 20.555.

- Baneblade Lascannons do different damage to different armor types, even though they're both supposed to be the same weapon. Fix: adjust penetration values to all buildings, infantry and monster_med.

- Techpriest is immune to morale even though he has the morale bar. Fix: Either remove the morale bar if he's supposed to be immune or give him the proper morale entries to allow him to have morale.

- Heavy Weapon Team melee does 0 damage when un-entrenched. Fix: Give the weapon proper minimum_damage_value, min and max damage and armor penetration values (or just the the Guardsman knife weapon entry).

- Psyker Lightning field has an Armor Penetration value of 150 against infantry_heavy_high. Fix reduce it to 100.

- Command Squad Priest's morale bonus overrides the Commissar's morale bonus to the squad. Fix: set the morale addition modifier to "exclusive: false."

- Weapon specialization research gives a damage modifier of 2 to guardsmen grendes and 1.5 to Kasrkin grenades, as a result, Kasrkin grenades end up doing less damage than their Guardsmen counterparts. Fix1: Set the Kasrkin damage modifier for Grenade Launchers to 2. Fix2: Increase the min and mac damage values on the Kasrkin Grenadelauncher by a multiplier of 1.35 so that the damage after Weapon Specialization will be higher than that of Guardsmen Grenadelaunchers.

- Guardsmen, HW team and Kasrkin knives, Priest weapons, Psyker CC weapon and Captain's power Gauntlet, as well as their special attacks do no morale damage. Guardsmen sergeants, Ogryns and Ogryn Bon'eads do 0.5.
Fix: Assign each of these proper morale damage values (nothing too high, just enough to have them do reasonable morale damage in melee).

- IG plasma starts at range 22 when even standard bolters have range 25 and guardsmen lasguns have range 27. While the range does go up to 26.4 with the Satellite Targeting upgrade, it's inconsistent to have it start at such a low range.

- Guardsmen Sergeant laspistol has range 30 and is not affected by the Satellite Targeting upgrade. As a result, it outranges Guardsmen lasguns before the upgrade and vice versa after the upgrade. Fix: give the laspistol the same range as the lasgun, and have it be affected by the Satellite Targeting research.

- IG LP3 has a modifier that's supposed to add 200 hp, but it overrides the bonus of the LP2 upgrade. Fix: make the second modifier increase health by 400 instead of 200, resulting in the intended +200 hp with LP3.

- Assassin Infiltrate Research has no hotkey. Fix: something written in the "ui_hotkey_name" bit to sort that one out.

- IG turret blueprint is so large that it's difficult to place them on the map. Fix: Either reduce the "extra_no_build_buffer" from 2 to 1 or change the entity blueprints to the following: scale_x = 2, scale_z = 1.

- Guardsmen and Kasrkin have ranged_attackrange set at 35 in their squad file. This limits their automatic firing to range 35, even though they have weapons that have longer range (grenade launchers). Fix: increase the value to 45.

- The Leman Russ targeting bug is unique to the LR. It is not shared by the LLR or either Pred. The problem is the sponson heavy bolters cannot fire inwards at all. Thus they cannot fire on the same target unless said target is at least as wide as the LR.
Fix: Taking my cue from the SM and Chaos Predators, change the max_traverse_right for the left HB to 15 and the max_traverse_left for the right HB to -15.

- The HWT AC facing bug is that the HWT reverses direction when the AC is built.
Fix: setthe muzzle z-value for this weapon in the unit file (ebps file) to 0.103 instead of -0.103.

- Assassin and Techpriest do 0 morale damage in CC. Fix: Give the techpriest power axe and exitus pistol a morale damage value.

- Kasrkin sergeant sword and Guardsmen sergeant sword both to 0 damage to building_high, vehicle_high and monster_high. Kasrkin sergeant swoard also does 0 morale damage. Fix: give them proper armor penetration values against the three armor classes or a minimum damage value and give the Kasrkin sergeant sword a morale damage value.

- Let it burn ability does no morale damage. Fix: Give the ability and its child abilities a morale damage value (but don't go overboard).

- Strip Soul does no morale damage. Fix: give the ability a morale damage value.

- Inconsistency: IG LP3 has a firing range of 25. Every other races LP3 updates firing range from 25 to 35.
Fix: Increase the range on guard_heavy_bolter_listening_post_2 to 35.

- Imperial Guard mines are missing AP values against monster_high and monster_med.
Fix: Assign both armor classes proper damage values. The armor penetrating values are also quite different from the other mines so standardizing the damage values to better match with the others seems reasonable as well.

- Imperial Guard mines have extra_no_build_buffer set to 1 while the other mines have it set to 0. This increases the blueprint of the mines to be bigger than all the other mines. Fix: set the extra_no_build_buffer to 0 from 1 in the epbs file.

- Yet more IG weapons that don't have proper morale damage values. See here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2412964#post2412964).

- It would seem that the armor penetrations on the Heavy Weapon Team's Autocannon are swapped between monster_med and monster_high. Fix: Interchange the armor piercing values for monster_med and monster_high.

- There are two sponson Twin Heavy Bolters on the Baneblade, one on either side of the vehicle, and a third mounted directly on the hull next to the Demolisher cannon. The left sponson Twin Heavy Bolter has different DPS values for Vehicle Low (5.0) and Vehicle Medium (1.0). The right has DPS values for Vehicle Low (12.0) and Vehicle Medium (6.0).
Fix: Increase the armor penetration on guard_heavy_bolter_baneblade_1 to 24 against vehicle_low and to 12 against vehicle_med.

- The Hellhound's stationary accuracy is only 50% and though its FOTM is better than most units, it still suffers. Because of this, it has a notorious tendency to pull into range, start firing, and then the squad it's shooting at proceeds to take no damage whatsoever for a solid 3-14 seconds. All other flamers in the game have full accuracy and then possibly some penalties to moving accuracy.
Fix: Increase its stationary accuracy to 100% and then reduce its DPS accordingly to current levels. Adjust accuracy penalty on the move accordingly if desired.

- Psyker's CC weapon has no AP value defined for building_high. He has a disparity where he is only dealing 1.0 DPS to building_high and at least 15 times that amount to other armor types.
Fix: Assign a proper AP value to entry_12 under guard_psychic_spike_psyker.

- HQ Priest's eviscerator suffers from a two-fold problem.

First, there is no AP value defined for vehicle_high. This creates a dissparity where the priest is dealing 1.4 DPS to vehicle_high and at least 50 DPS to all other armor types. More evidence: The CS Priest does at least 23 DPS to vehicle_high and hes only using a chainsword!

The second problem is that the AP value for building_high is exceedingly low (0.667). Thus, the Priest is suffering from another disparity whereby he only deals 1.9 DPS to building_high. For more evidence, I looked at the Commisar and General's damage to building_high, and found that they were both at least 10 DPS. Note: This bug is also present in the CS Priest's chainsword, except that he has no AP entry.

Fix: Assign proper AP values to entry_08 under guard_eviscerator_priest and entry_14 under guard_chainsword_priest. Increase the AP value for entry_14 under guard_eviscerator_priest to something more appropriate.

- Assassin's Exitus Pistol is missing AP values against vehicle_high and monster_high. He is only dealing 1.0 DPS to these types, but at least ten times that amount to other armor types.
Fix: Assign proper AP values to entry_08 and entry_10 under guard_exitus_pistol_assassin.

- The IG Techpriest is by default set to Hold Ground stance (he'll move to engage nearby enemies), and this will be overwritten by the stance set on the HQ he is made from. The other combat-capable builders (Bonesinger, Grots) default to Stand Ground stance (don't move to attack) and this stance overwrites the stance set on the HQs they are created from.
Fix: for consistency change the following in the Techpriest sbps:
default_stance set to type_stance\tp_stance_standground.lua
ignore_building_stance set to true

IG CAMPAIGN RELATED:
- The Victory Sash wargear of the Imperial Guard is supposed to increase the morale of Regimental Bodyguards (honor guard GM) by 100. However, the bonus is apply_to_squad, not apply_to_squad_type and so it doesn't work (just like the GM sergeant health bonus was).

- The Carapace Greaves wargear should increase the movement speed of the general and all command squad members by 25%. But the Priest's bonus is a 0% bonus with a 125% chance of applying. The probability to apply and the modifier value entries are swapped.

guard_research_command_squad_size does not apply a health bonus to any of the Dark Crusade Campaign command squad units, except for the commander unit himself (which is a hefty 500 health bonus) but I would like to know if it is suppose to apply to the campaign command squad units also.

For clarity sakes in explaining these next two bugs:
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp is the reference for the Honor Guard Kasrkin squad
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sergeantt_advance_sp is the reference for the Command Squad Kasrkin sergeant

guard_research_kasrkin_armor mistankly applies to the command squad kasrkin sergeant (kasrkin_sergeant_advance_sp, instead of kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp)

guard_research_kasrkin_speed does not apply to the honor guard sergeant (the kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp listing), instead just leaving him slower than the rest of his squad after the upgrade.

Wargear upgrades (which are listed under research):

guard_wargear_upgrade_08_greaves_research - this one is a doozy:

modifier4 list: guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier5 list: guard_leaders_priest_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_priest_command_squad_advance_sp
AND has a probability of applying: 1.250000 and list a multiplier bonus of 1.000000. These values need to be swapped.
modifier6 list: guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier7 was so close but has listed "mod_apply_to_entity" instead of "mod_apply_to_entity_type"

guard_wargear_upgrade_09_sash_research

modifier03 has "mod_apply_to_squad" instead of "mod_apply_to_squad_type"
- General Lucas Alexander's Master-Crafted Power Claws and Power Fists wargear both also do 0 morale damage.

guard_power_fist_captain (the third melee upgrade for the Command squad captain in the DC SP campaign) lists min_damage of 225 and a max_damage of 145. These values are swapped. Fix: switch the values around so that max damage is the higher value.

- In the Imperial Guard campaign, the wargear item "Governor's Raiment" is supposed to increase the maximum squad and support caps, however this is bugged and gives no increase for either.

Fix: change the modifiers in guard_wargear_upgrade_10_governor_raiment_research from:
squad_cap_player_modifier.lua
support_cap_player_modifier.lua
to:
max_squad_cap_player_modifier.lua
max_support_cap_player_modifier.lua

- Honor Guard GM start with 275 hp, and get *2 and *2.5 hp multipliers, in addition to the armor research. So they eventually get their hp multiplied by 6.25 which means they have ~1700 hp per man. Since multipliers work with additive boni, that number gets increased to ~2700 hp each, if you take sergeants and priests into account. For reference regular Guardsmen start with 160 hp, get +15 and +25 hp from the morale researches, and a *1.25 hp multiplier from the armor research.

Fix: Honor Guard Guardsmen get additive (for example +40 and +50) hp from the morale research, instead of multiplicative boni.


NECRON:

- Necron builder scarabs have a 12 second flag plant animation which renders the scarab planting the flag immune to damage for those 12 seconds. All other races' cappers have a plant time of 3 seconds. Fix: Reduce the duration of scarab flag plant animation to 3 seconds.

- Necron Warriors (rep, max0), Builder Scarabs (rep, max0), Pariahs (rep, max0 ), Immortals (rep, max0) are all set to "can_be_repaired=true" but have max repairers set to 0, which means that they can't be repaired, even though the cursor changes to the repair one when places over them. Same goes for the Flayed Ones, except they aren't set to repairable but have 1 max repairers.
Fix: Set Necron Warriors, Builder Scarabs, Immortals and Pariahs to "can_be_repaired=false" and Flayed Ones to "max_repairers = 0".

- Necron Obelisk Gauss Flayer (the LP2 weapon) does negligible morale damage (0.05). Fix: Give the weapon a proper morale damage value.

- The Awakened Monolith addon (T2 upgrade) is supposed to provide a 50% health bonus to the Necron Lord, but the application type isn't specified so it defaults to apply_to_entity instead of apply_to_entity_type (which is what it should use to apply to the Necron Lord). Because of this the bonus is applied to the Monolith instead of the Necron Lord.
Fix: Considering the Necron Lord is already powerful enough, either remove the bonus or properly apply it to the monolith. Make sure that the second monolith upgrade's health bonus to the Necron Lord isn't broken in the process.

- The Necron speed progress bar doesn't accurately show the benefits gained from Obelisks and Critical points as the obelisk bonus of 20% is too large and the Critical bonus isn't even shown on the bar.
Fix: Reduce the value of modifier 07 on epbs/races/necrons/structures/necron_listening_post to 15.2. Then add a similar modifier as modifier 04 on the ebps/environment/gameplay/strategic_objective_struct.rgd file under 'modifiers_immediate' with a value of 22.7.

- Necron Pariahs have all their sound effects missing.
Fix: in data-> attrib-> ebps-> races-> necrons-> troops-> necron_pariah-> ui_ext, change
"Speech\Races\Necron\Pariah\Selection" to "Speech\Races\Necron\Pariah"

- Necron Pariahs have a reinforce speed of 10. Not unusual by itself, as all other hardcap 1 tier 3 infantry have reinforce times in the 9-12 seconds range. However, taking the Necron speed bonus into account, their reinforce time can get as low as 3.3 seconds, which is the fastest reinforce time in the game, especially high for a 1000 hp heavy_high unit.

NOTE: BALANCE ISSUES ON THIS ONE.

Fix 1: Pariah reinforce time is unaffected by the necron speed bonus.
or
Fix 2: Pariah reinforce speed is increased to 24-30 seconds. (For reference, NW have 25 secs reinforce time, Flayed Ones 30 seconds.)

- If a Flayed One is killed there is a 50% chance that it will stand back up with 30% of its original hitpoints. Every other Necron unit (Necron Warrior, Wraith, Immortals) have only a 25% chance to reassemble themselves with 30% of their original hitpoints.
Fix: Reduce the "get_back_up_chance" on the Flayed One ebps file from 0.5 to 0.25.

- Inconsistancy: Necron HF Obelisk (lp3) has no other tier building requirements and can be upgraded as early as Tier 1. All other races' listening posts require at least Tier 2 to upgrade to heavily fortified.

ORK
- Stormboyz speed upgrade doesn't affect Stormboy Nob Leaders and as squads move at the speed of the slowest unit in the squad, the Nob Leader slows down his squad. Fix: Have the ork_research_speed_boost_stormboyz upgrade increase the speed of Stormboy_Nob_Leader by a modifier of 1.3.

- Stormboyz Stikk Bombz does 0 morale damage, even though they are technically considered to be anti-infantry grenades.
Fix: Assign the Stikk Bombz ability a proper morale damage value.

- Mad Dok's Burna Bomb does 0 morale damage.
Fix: Give it a morale damage value (don't go overboard).

- The Squiggoth is armed with two Twin Big Shootas. The right Twin Big Shoota is completely lacking AP values for Heavy_Infantry_MED, Building_LOW, Building_MED, and Building_HIGH, meaning it defaults to its inherited value of 2.5 DPS against these. The Left Twin Big Shoota is missing AP values for Heavy_Infantry_MED, Heavy_Infantry_HIGH, Building_MED, and Building_HIGH.
Fix: Assign armor penetration values for each of these fields on both twin big shootas.

- More Burny Research and Free Sluggas, both have a hotkey of M.

- Mega Armoured Nobs have no morale penalty on death.
Fix: Give them a morale death value of 40 (standard value for units in the game).

ORKS CAMPAIGN RELATED:

- Gorgutz's Big Horns are stated in-game to increase melee damage and health. Unfortunately that's not quite the way they work. Instead they function as an aoe 10 melee weapon that hurts your own troops. Since the aoe was manually added by Relic (check the lua), I'm assuming the aoe part is intentional. The "hurt's your own troops" part though is the default value by the game engine and probably isn't intentional.
Fix: Set the aoe filter on the weapon ork_warboss_big_horns to "tp_area_filter_enemy"

- The ork_warboss_red_gob weapon lacks a reload value, so it's doing the same crazy damage thing as the old bugged Crisis Suit flamers.
Fix: Set the weapon's reload to 1 (same as the other special wargear weaponry like the Helm of Lorgar, Big Horns, or Rune Aura weapon).

SPACE MARINES
- Powersword upgrade changes the Chaplain's Crozius Arcanum into a powersword and all subsequent upgrade the Crozius Arcanum's weapon which is no longer in use. More specific info (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2226056#post2226056). Fix: Remove the modifier 05 from the Powersword upgrade that changes the Crozius to the Powersword.

- SM Dreadnought Lascannon and Assault Cannon have no fire on the move penality. All others walkers have it. For consitency's sakes either give all walker weapons decent fire on the move or give dreadnought weapons the movement penalty as well.

- The Land Raider's left and right twin-linked lascannons do different damage to monster_high, monster_med and vehicle_high. Fix: fix the differing armor penetration values for those 3 armor types.

- The Space Marine predator lascannon sponsons do different damage to building_high. Fix: make the armor penetration values on those weapons against building_high the same.

- Orbital Bombardment's initial shot is missing damage values for monster_high, vehicle_medium, and vehicle_high.
Fix: Since the children all have 25 piercing values for those armor types, then give the initial shot those piercing values too.

- Space Marine Mine Fields have a sight range of 0, detection range of 6. The other four Mine Fields have a sight range of 10, detection range of 6. Fix: Give Space Marine Mine Fields a sight range of 10.

- When Terminators teleport, their weapons remain active without any animation for it. Fix: change "combat_enabled" on the jump bit in the squad file from "true" to "false".

- Chaplain's power sword entry has double AP entries for infantry_med and infantry_low and no AP values to infantry_heavy_high and infantry_heavy_medium.
Fix: Reassign entries 13 and 14 to infantry_heavy_high and infantry_heavy_medium and assign them proper values.

- Inconsistancy: Space Marine squad missile launchers are the only missile weapon in the game with 0 knockback force. All other missile weapons do some kind of knockback.
Fix: Most missile weapons do 20-50 knockback force. In space_marine_missile_launcher_tactical, edit the force_min to 20 and force_max to 50, or whatever seems appropriate.

- Weaken Resolve Research and Word of the Emperor Research still share a hotkey, "B", although the former is no longer a prerequisite of the latter and so the same hotkey is assigned to two potentially simultaneously active researches. Fix: Change the hotkey for one of the two researches.

SINGLEPLAYER SPACE MARINE ISSUES:
- The honor guard librarian has only 300 hp instead of 1400. Fix: Increase hp to which ever seems appropriate (standard Librarians are 1400 hp).

The tooltip for Wargear: Power Weapons upgrade in the SM Armoury in the campaign is listing "Equips all Sergeants with power Swords" line twice.
Fix: Remove the first line.


TAU
- Assign the Tau Shield Drone a proper armor class.

- Kroot Hounds, Krootox and the Greater Knarloc are all missing health regeneration values. Fix: Give Kroot Hounds, Krootox and Greater Knarloc a health regeneration value of 1.

- Tau Firewarrior Shas'Ui pulse carbine has a range of 30 while basic Firewarrior Pulse Rifles have range 35 and the Shas'Ui weapon is also unaffected by all the upgrades. As a result, the Shas'Ui can never fire as far as the basic Firewarriors. Fix: add 5 range to the Shas'Ui weapon and apply the same range bonuses in the upgrades to the Shas'Ui Carbine as well.

- Adding a 2nd Shas'Ui or a 2nd Shield Drone to a Firewarrior squad does not grant the benefits of a second ability, nor does it impact the recharge of the ability at all. Fix: change the value async_ability from "false" to "true" in the sbps file, squad_loadout_ext.

- Hammerhead clones still have vehicle_high armor type. Fix: make their armor type vehicle_med.

- Tau vehicle building blueprint is so large that it's difficult to place them on the map. Fix: Either reduce the "extra_no_build_buffer" from 2 to 1 or change entity blueprints to the following: scale_x = 4, scale_z = 6.

- CONSISTENCY: Greater Knarloc builds in 30 seconds while every other super unit builds in 90.

- Stealth Suit Shav’re’s fusion blaster has range 20 while regular fusion blasters have range 25 and 28. It is not affected by any of the upgrades either (mainly the accuracy upgrade). Fix: increase the range to 25 and make it be affected by the appropriate upgrades.

- Tau squad leaders don't increase morale of the squad. Fix: have Stealth Suit and Firewarrior squad leaders increase morale.

- The ethereal bonus of +200 hitpoints affects every single Tau entity, including things like snare traps. Fix: consider which units it is intended and modify the ethereal's for the greater good ability accordingly.

- Devilfish burstcannon does 1.4 dps across the board. Fix: decide if it's just eyecandy or if it should do proper damage. BALANCE IMPLICATIONS.

- Crisis Suit Missile Pods are bugged, 2 of their damage values, (vehical low and Vehical Med), have values over 100% penetration. It also has very low Building low penetration but high Building Med/Building High damage. It looks like the Building Low and Building High values are switched round.

- tau_flamer_commander list itself as having 350 armour piercing value vs infantry_heavy_high.
Fix: infantry_heavy_medium has a value of 45, so 35 seems like the intended value here.

- tau_missile_pod_crisis_suit has armour piercing values of:
140 armour piercing v vehicle_low
120 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
Fix: Bring both down to 100.

- tau_rail_gun_hammer_head_gunship has armour piercing values of:
160 armour piercing v vehicle_low
300 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
Fix: Reduce both to 100.

- Tau Drone Squad's Self Destruct ability does 0 morale damage. Fix: Give it a morale damage value (nothing too high).

- Drone squads are 70/40 to reinforce, yet 120/210 to build for the initial 3 member squad. Fix: Decide which is the correct cost and adjust the prices accordingly.

- Broadsides have morale values although they can’t take any due to a morale armor of 0. Fix: Either remove morale values if they aren’t intended to break or give them morale armor of 0.5 and adjust the other morale values appropriately (1500 morale seems excessive, as does morale regen of 50 per second etc.).

- The Kroot Shaping Center returns only 10% resources if deleted once built. This is in line with a T1 Barracks building, but the Kroot Shaping Center isn't a T1 barracks anymore so it should return 50% resources if deleted once built.

- Crisis Suit and Vespid Stingwing clones have no HP regen value. The single-player honor guard clone also has no HP regen value. Fix: Give them an HP regen value of 1.

- The Greater Knarloc's special attacks have no piercing values which means they default to their amazing min damage value of 1.
Fix: Since other uber special attacks have a default piercing value of 10, do the same for the Greater Knarloc's two special attacks so they actually do some damage.

- The Vespid Stingwing have build requirements of either a Tau or Kroot Barracks. Fix: As the Kroot Barracks now requires a Tau Barracks (Tau -> PtE -> Kroot), the build requirements should be changed to just the Tau Barracks since the Kroot Barracks is no longer used as a tech level building.

- Another Tau one. The Broadside Rail Gun has an aoe of 1. This is about 1 pixel larger than the unit radius of a Techpriest, far too small to actually hit more than one unit. Fix: Since the Rail Gun actually having a real aoe would most certainly be unbalanced, set the aoe size of the Rail Gun to 0.

- The Stealth Suit research Target Lock increases the accuracy of Stealth Suit Burst Cannons and Stealth Suit Fusion Blasters by 200% (2.0 in the game engine). This makes the weapons perfectly accurate when standing still or moving. At 2, it's an overkill no matter what.
Fix: If the upgrade is intended to make the units perfectly accurate, reduce the accuracy bonus to 100% (0.2). Otherwise just reduce the bonus t whatever seems appropriate.

- If you try to build a Shield Drone with less than 70 requisition, you'll find you can't click the button. The problem is that although the displayed cost of the unit is 40/40, and this is the amount deducted from your resources when you build it, the ebps file lists the cost as 70/0. The game looks at this value when determining if the unit can be built even though it's not the actual cost of the unit.
The Firewarrior Shas'Ui squad leader is low in the ebps file at only 70/0, when it's actually 70/20.
Fix: Correct Shield Drone cost in the ebps file to 40/40. Correct the Firewarrior Shas'Ui squad leader cost to 70/20.

- CONSISTENCY: Tau Commander's flamer uses a circular area of effect and not a cone shaped, unlike all other flamers in the game. Fix: Change the area_type from 'tp_area_effect_circle' to 'tp_area_effect_pie' and change the 'angle left' value from 30 to -30.
NOTE: This affects the flamer's efficiency so some rebalancing may be in order.

- The Vespids' Sonic Pulse fires twice because a mismatch of refresh time and duration time. Duration time 1.7 gives enough time for the refresh time of 1 to kick in and do the ability a second time.
Fix: Increase the refresh time of the Tau_Sonic_Pulse from 1 to 1.7.

- The Skyray Missile Gunship has no Fire on the Move penalty.
Fix: Give tau_skyray_missile (the parent weapon of the two missiles mounted on the Skyray) an accuracy_reduction_when_moving of 0.55. This would give the children 15% accuracy while moving like nearly all the other units in the game.

Skyray Missile Barrage has two bugs:
- There is an initial, instant, invisible missile fired directly at the target point with an aoe of 0.01. Since the 18 children inherit their damage values from this ability, we can either disable the parent's damage and knockback and then copy it all over to the first child, or (easier) fix the parent to be a proper 19th missile that fires just before the current first missile.
Fix: Make the following changes to tau_skyray_missile_barrage: initial_delay_time = 1.6, area_effect\radius = 6, area_effect\throw_data\up_angle_max = 75, projectile_name = Tau_skyray_Missile (yeah, odd capitalization), projectile_spawn_pos\x = 1.60800, projectile_spawn_pos\y = 4.07700, projectile_spawn_pos\z = -1.70000, random_offset = 8

- Children 7-18 and the parent do friendly fire, but children 1-6 do not.
Fix: Either set Children 7-18 along with the parent to area_effect\area_effect_information\filter_type=tp _area_filter_enemy.lua, or set Children 1-6 to area_effect\area_effect_information\filter_type=tp _area_filter_all.lua. The latter is probably a better choice balance-wise.

- A batch of Holographic Projection bugs. Some clones have a health value that mismatches the original unit. No clone's health scales with Improved Metallurgy, so if they matched before they won't after. This needs a two stage fix. First, make the mismatched clones have the same health as the original units (clone health listed below in parenthesis).

Vespid Stingwing: 330 (250)
Pathfinder: 350 (250)
Kroot Shaper: 800 (1000)
Kroot Hound: 600 (1200, that's not even close)
Greater Knarloc: 8000 (6500)
Drone Squad: 325 (800, where do these numbers come from?)
Drone Harbinger: 750 (2500, seriously, what?)
Hammerhead: 4000 (3200, along with the vehicle_high armor bug)

- Problem 2: the health of clones does not increase with Improved Metallurgy, so a smart player can determine whether or not a unit is a clone by checking it's health rather than trying to figure out whether or not it's doing damage. Fix: in tau_improved_metallurgy, duplicate modifiers 2 through 8 as 9 through 15, changing the target of the duplicates (clones?) to be the clone version of each of those units.

- Tau Broadside Battlesuits railgun has no AP value defined for Infantry_Low. As a result, the weapon is only dealing 18.8 DPS to Infantry_Low and over 100 DPS to other infantry types.
Fix: Assign a proper AP to entry_01 under tau_railgun_broadside_battlesuit.

- Crisis Suit flamer has a firing arc of 0 degrees, making it a single-line weapon instead of a pie-shaped AoE weapon.
FIX: increase the firing arc. NOTE: One will have to tone down the effectiveness of the weapon if this change takes place.

- The Tau Shield Drone does not have a sight radius assigned. This leaves the squad blind if the Shield Drone is the last unit left.
Fix: Give it a sight radius of 15 to match the rest of the squad.

- Tau Snare Traps have no armor type assigned.
Fix: Assign it an armor type.

- Kroot Carnivores have no morale penalty on death(ebps file, health_ext\morale_death). All other non-Necron units in squads that can take morale damage or units that can attach to a squad that can take morale damage have a morale penalty on death.
Fix: Give them a morale death value of 40 (standard value for units in the game).

Maps:
- Tranquility end:
open the Tranquility End_icon.TGA file with any .bmp editor, rotate it 90°, save, close, check ingame the minimap.

- Fallen city:
open fallen city.TGA with the ME, enable RENDER WATER in the options, save, close, check.

- The map Titan’s Fall is apparently imbalanced. The bottom player is closer to the "middle" strategic points and the "middle" critical location. Fix: here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2279603#post2279603).

- Several maps are somewhat lopsided when it comes to resource distribution. Check this post (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2655050#post2655050) for details on how to fix.

- All new Dark Crusade maps are completely devoid of cover.


Tooltips:

Check the entryline in the appropriated unit (it appear as $#####). Now, open
DXP2 (or WH40k or WXP)/locale/language.UCS and change the appropriated line with a text editor. It is very sensitive to changes, so make backups and triple check in game.

GENERAL
Tooltip for Critical Locations (except for Necrons) state that they produce requisition at a higher rate than Strategic Points. However, both Strategic Points and Critical Locations produce +6 requisition when captured.

CHAOS
- Bloodthirster still says the cost goes up every time you summon it. I think it's been like this since the original, yet it's never actually been true.
Remove the false line

- The demon pit doesnt list the demon prince research under the tool tip. Fix: Add it.

- CSM Temple (ie. barrack) tooltip lists "allows the building of csm armory" This is untrue.
Remove the false line.

- The tooltip specifying that Chaos Marines can only get Heavy Bolters needs to be fixed.

- Berzerk Fury says it increases damage dealt and decreases damage taken. This is incorrect. It increases damage dealt, decreases morale damage taken, and increases physical damage taken.

- Obliterator tooltips say they are effective against most things in CC, when they're actually effective against nothing in CC.
Fix: Either buff their melee to around CSM Levels, or fix the tooltip.

- When the Plasma Pistols upgrade is researched, both the Chaos Lord and Sorcerer lose Infantry from their unit counter list.

- The Chaos Armory states that it contains upgrades for Chaos Marines, Raptors, Cultists, and Aspiring Champions, but it makes no mention of Khorne Berserkers. Khorne Berserkers can research the Symbol of Khorne ability at the armory.

ELDAR
- Grav platform tooltips still say they can be attached to squads. This is not true.
Remove the false line.

- The Vyper tooltip say that can be upgraded to be effective against vehicles. Untrue.
Remove the false line.

- For the Armour upgrades, it says they affect Reapers, Banshees, Warp Spiders and such, but makes no mention of Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons do get a health increase.

- Tooltip for Eldar Mines still say that commanders can detect them. This is incorrect and should be removed.

IMPERIAL GUARD
- Assassin Scope for the assassin still claims to increase LOS.

- There's no tooltip mentioning that Chimeras are capped at 6.

- The tooltip for the CS Commissar claims that he increases the HP regeneration of his squad, but he does not.

- When Plasma Guns are equipped to the Guardsmen Squad, they do not gain Heavy Infantry under their unit counter list.
- Tooltip for Tactica Control still says that this building is required to upgrade to the Battle Command.

- Tooltip for the Uncommon Valor upgrade doesn't mention that it also adds 100 HP to all Command Squad members, including the General.

- Tooltip for the Weapon Specialization upgrade claims to double the damage of the Grenade Launcher and Plasma Gun, however this is misleading. To clarify this, change the tooltip to say what it actually does:
"Doubles the damage of the Guardsmen Grenade Launcher and Kasrkin Plasma Rifle.
Increases the damage of the Guardsman Plasma Rifle and Kasrkin Grenade Launcher by 50%."

- The tooltip for upgrading to the Battle Command doesn't mention that it increases the Guardsman squad size by 3 members.

- Tooltip for IG Mines state that commanders can detect them. This is not true of several races' heroes, including the Necron Lord, Eldar Far Seer, SM Force Commander, etc.

- Tooltip for the Execute ability still claims to double fire rate.

- Tooltip for the Lightning Arc ability doesn't alert user to the self-break that also breaks any squad a Psyker is attached to.

- Tooltips for Guardsmen and Kasrkin grenadelaunchers don't mention inability to fire on the move, whereas SM heavy bolters and missile launchers do.
NECRON
- Tooltip for first Listening Post upgrade says it gives "Wailing Doom", but the ability is called "Wailing Terror".

- There is no tooltip that mentions Scarab Swarms are capped at 4.

- It is not mentioned in any tooltip that building a Scarab Swarm costs 125 power and 1 vehicle point. Fix: Ideal place to include such information would be in the button that produces the squad, located in the Tomb Spyder's control panel. Another spot to include such information would be in the Tomb Spyder's tooltip, itself.

ORKS
- Tooltip for Da Boyz Hut states that this building is required to build the Pile of Gunz, but this is incorrect. Pile of Gunz only requires 20 Ork Resource.

- Tooltip for building the Storm Boyz squad (in Da Boyz Hut) does not mention that Storm Boyz are also effective against heavy infantry.

- Tooltip for Power Klaws upgrade on the Nobz Squad states that Power Klaws are "effective against all unit types." However, when Power Klaws are added to the squad, vehicles are not added to the squad's unit counter list.

SPACE MARINES
- Tooltips say that Terminators are "effective against most units in close combat." They actually have lower CC damage than Scouts do.
Fix: Either buff the Terminators to SM CC levels (something which people have pushed for since Termies became an elite, BTW) or fix the tooltip.

- There is no tooltip that mentions Land Speeders are capped at 10.

- Tooltip for the Chapel-Barracks still incorrectly states that this building is required to build the armory.

- When researching the Plasma Pistols upgrade, the Force Commander, Librarian, and Chaplain all lose Infantry from their unit counter list.

TAU
- The tooltip for "Stealth Suit Burst Cannon Upgrade" from the Cadre Headquarters, says that it upgrades the damage on ALL Stealth Suit weapons, when it actually upgrades the damage on ONLY the Burst Cannons (as the name suggests).

- Tooltip for the Tau Barracks doesn't mention that Kroot Carnivores can be built there.

- Tooltip for Fire Warriors says that they are "Effective against Infantry and Heavy Infantry." Armor penetration values and in-game performance imply the same thing. However, the squad's unit box does not list Heavy Infantry under its counter list.

- XV8 Crisis Battlesuit Team and XV88 Broadside Battlesuit Team are now single-unit squads, but their names are causing confusion. They should be renamed to remove the "Team" from the unit name.

- Tooltip for the Tau Commander claims that he has no melee attack. However, his burst cannon does the exact same damage in melee as in the ranged stance.

- Tooltip for Coalition Center incorrectly says that this building is required to train the Greater Knarloc.

- According to the tooltips, the Honor Guard Stealth Suits are not effective against anything.

Frydoom
31st Mar 07, 2:45 PM
- Fix the Harlequin's ranged attack, as it does no damage at all

Copied this from the "Oversight collection" thread:

- The Tau Shield Drone for the Firewarrior teams still has no armor class specified, leaving it with the basic armor class of "armour". Most weapons have either very low default piercing values for unspecified armor or have full penetration. This results in most weapons either doing their minimum damage value to the unit or doing full damage.

- Priest morale bonus in the CS override the (higher) morale bonus of the Commissar. POSSIBLY FIXABLE, IDEAS?

Removed engine bugs/feature wishes. -Slow_Runner

Jaimas
31st Mar 07, 5:06 PM
IG:
* Fix CS Priest/Commissar Override bug. SEEMS DOABLE, FIX NEEDED.
* Fix bug that causes CS reinforcement to lock up for no apparent reason occasionally. SEEMS DOABLE, FIX NEEDED.
* Fix Kasrkin Special Weapon damages (This has needed to be done for going on like 6 patches now. Why this hasn't happened already, despite community outcry is frankly, ridiculous). SEEMS DOABLE, FIX NEEDED, EXPLAIN WHAT EXACTLY IS THE PROBLEM. (The fix needed is to fix the damn grenade launcher on the Kasrkin so it does the correct damage; currently it deals notably less than its GM counterpart).
* Fix building armor.
* Fix IG Sergeant weapon damages.
* Fix Leman Russ targetting bug (due to some tareget-area silliness, the Leman Russ cannot bring all its guns to bear on a target unless the target happens to be especially large - a weakness not shared by other tanks with Sponsons.)
* Standardize Leman Russ Heavy Bolter damage.
* Standardize Baneblade Heavy Bolter and Lascannon damages.
* Fix Baneblade Autocannon range bug (due to a poorly-set minimum/maximum range set, the Autocannon only fires at a very specific range, which it is borderline impossible to get to so as to fire the damn thing. It doesn't have a firing animation either, but I'd settle for getting the damn thing working, for now).
* Fix Strafing Run damage. It's been bugged for upwards of 4 patches now.

War-Reborn
31st Mar 07, 5:18 PM
IG, CS Airstrike, seems to have bugged dmg values according to the relic wiki.

Extra stuff removed. -Slow_Runner

weirwood
31st Mar 07, 6:24 PM
There's the issue with the Chaplain and the power sword upgrade.

Researching still power swords replaces his crozius with a sword, even though the model doesn't change. Researching power fists will then upgrade the crozius he no longer has.

Slow_Runner
1st Apr 07, 12:56 AM
Check the previous posts in the thread, people. I'm getting the same stuff 2-3 times and the thread only has 12 replies so far, some of it already in my first post. :|

Also this is not Bug submissions. If you know of some weird bug that has maybe happened, don't post it here. This is for easy fixes, not a new Bug Submissions forum.

EDIT: Crud, the oversight thread. OK, since that's concentrating on bugs and the like, this will be strictly about bugs that anyone can fix with mod tools.

EDIT2: I'll be deleting/editing things out with the above in mind.

EDIT3: Also, this is not a suggestion box.

Varsis
1st Apr 07, 8:59 AM
IG:
The CS icon disappears when the general dies, even if there are still retinue members. Just keep the icon till they all die.

StuffmanSFC
1st Apr 07, 11:15 AM
I just found out something interesting. I know prioritizing the Command Squad Captain's voice was on this list but it was removed because it seems like it couldn't be fixed easily with the mod tools, but if anyone's interested, there IS a loophole through which you can prioritize the Captain's voice using the Attribute Editor.

All you need to do is go into the LUAs of the CS Commissar, Psyker and Priest and remove their speech directory under ui_info. (Don't worry, the CS versions are seperate from the ones you build from the HQ, so you won't mess up their versions.) Since they have no speech files, it'll default to the Captain's voice.

The catch is that then the other members can't talk (you'll hear the Captain speak when he gets reinforced), and thus I'm not sure what'll happen if the Captain dies, whether the squad will become silent or it'll keep using the Captain's voice.

Just thought you'd like to know.

EDIT: Did some further testing, even if the Captain dies the squad continues to use his voice. Also, for reasons I cannot determine, his squad members still give their battlecries ("Forward, you dogs, to victory!"), which is just fine with me.

War-Reborn
1st Apr 07, 11:58 AM
How can the Autocannon on the baneblade not fireing correctly not be a no brainer fix? a gun that basically doesn't work is sounds like a no brainer fix if ever there was one.

Kroot hounds do not regen health, even if a shaper is attached, there basically the tau equivalent of ogrens, termies etc, looks like someone forgot to add a hp regen code on them

Shujaa
1st Apr 07, 2:37 PM
Necron
- Put the correct damage cap on the Necron Lord's Lightning Field. Somehow I don't think being able to 1-shot a HQ is intentional :D

IG
- Leman Russ bolters on each side doing different damage values for no apparent reason
- Same for Baneblade (don't remember specifics)

Slow_Runner
2nd Apr 07, 4:27 AM
War-Reborn, can you fix it? Is it fixable without engine tweaking etc? I'm looking for fixes here, not "please fix"es.

- Necron Lord's Lightning field damage cap. Can someone give a fix to this please?

Adding Leman Russ heavy bolter disparity and looking into the Baneblade guns.

Jaimas
2nd Apr 07, 5:56 AM
As I recall, Slow, it's a smile matter of min/max range that's the cause of the Baneblade Autocannon's woes.

Also, because the Command Squad versions of the unit leaders are different than the regular versions, you can set their voices as that of the Command Squad, and it should work just fine.

Slow_Runner
2nd Apr 07, 6:38 AM
Max range 35, min range 0. Gonna have to do better than that. :p

weirwood
2nd Apr 07, 8:00 AM
Here's two more:

Lightning arc has armor penetration 150 vs heavy_high.
Fix: Reduce AP to 100, buff damage to 600 vs heavy_high.

Tech-priest still takes no morale damage.
Fix 1: Assign proper morale values to his entries.
or
Fix 2: Change his morale to unbreakable so WYSIWYG.

Shujaa
2nd Apr 07, 9:21 AM
About the Baneblade turrets:

specifically the left and right Lascannon turrets do slightly different vehicle damage, and hugely different building and infantry/monster damage. It's not really a harmful thing, just doesn't make any sense.

War-Reborn
2nd Apr 07, 10:39 AM
Max range 35, min range 0. Gonna have to do better than that. :p

There is an issue, i have tested it, when i did the test the autocannon did not fire at all despite the turret pointing at the target an firing 3 full shots from the main BC it was well within auto range, yet only the BC dmg registered.

On posting this issue in IG balance, jaimas i believe did his own test an concluded that the gun did fire but only within a very specific range band, that was so small it was hardly ever achived.

StuffmanSFC
2nd Apr 07, 4:08 PM
*Looks under the hood of the Baneblade and stands up again, wiping the grease from his hands*

Here's yer problem. Look at hardpoint 8, the Autocannon entry on the Baneblade:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7473/banebladeautocannonwy8.jpg


I'm not sure if it has animations and they simply weren't put in (I guess you could put "Guard_Autocannon" in there and see if it works), but I bet you could get the thing to fire, graphics or no, if you put the generic aiming scripts in there.

I would test it myself but I'm not an IG player so I have no idea what the Autocannon is supposed to look like in the first place.

weirwood
2nd Apr 07, 4:46 PM
Yeah, I'd call that proof enough.

The BB auto-cannon is the coaxial gun next to the battle cannon on the turret, in case you want to edit the values in and have a look at it.

StuffmanSFC
2nd Apr 07, 4:54 PM
Thanks, I'll go ahead and try it.

EDIT:
Wow. That did not go well. I should've known something was up when I put out the Baneblade and the turret was vibrating.

When I pointed it at a target, the Battlecannon was throwing like ten rounds per second. :wtf2: (Only graphically though...that Eldar base would've been leveled in seconds if the damage was counting that much.)

I think it's because I set the Autocannon to Main targetting, and having two weapons that use Main probably screws it up...someone who knows more about how targetting works in the LUAs than me will have to mess with it. Regardless, the Autocannon bug definitely has something to do with the Baneblade's LUA itself.

tl;dr - Results inconclusive.

Maktaka
2nd Apr 07, 7:18 PM
Back when WA was released, Relic stated the reason for the lack of targeting on the Autocannon was to prevent that very issue.

For the same reason, the twin heavy bolters are only a single weapon. There are actually six heavy bolters for the baneblade, but only three are used in the game to avoid the weapons fighting over what to shoot at.

Affenkot
3rd Apr 07, 3:17 AM
jumping vehicles can sidestep effect of cotms

Slow_Runner
3rd Apr 07, 5:06 AM
Ok, I've tinkered with the Autocannon a bit, and while it does fire, it doesn't fire a lot and the target has to be in a very specific spot. Also it has an accuracy of 0.5 and reload of 3 so it's pretty difficult to see it actually hit anything.

ImmortalChaos
3rd Apr 07, 5:08 AM
Affen: Any vehicle with jump can jump while stunned. Both CoTMs, ATs, and probes will only stun a unit; anything that can jump is already practically free.

Affenkot
3rd Apr 07, 5:22 AM
and it sucks .... there shud be an exception 4 cursed veh

Slow_Runner
3rd Apr 07, 5:35 AM
Tinkering with it a bit more, the autocannon is working just fine. Just the long reload time and crappy accuracy are making it very difficult to notice it hitting (because, well, it doesn't hit all that much). Also it's missing a firing animation, but that's all that I'm noticing.

StuffmanSFC
3rd Apr 07, 8:24 AM
Tinkering with it a bit more, the autocannon is working just fine. Just the long reload time and crappy accuracy are making it very difficult to notice it hitting (because, well, it doesn't hit all that much). Also it's missing a firing animation, but that's all that I'm noticing.

As in, it's already working in the current version, or you were able to fix it so that it is?

SubakuGaara
3rd Apr 07, 8:57 AM
Fix bug with oblits lascannon that causes the reset time to reset if oblits move. Allows near instantaneous oblit lascannon fire on buildings by repeated move and attack commands.

Also fix bug that allows daemon prince to be summoned in spaces too small for him to fit. Causes him to be stuck forever. Troubleshooter can verify this for you. Annoying.

Finally defiler AI needs tweaking to where melee mode overrides artillery cannon fire. Right now, if you tell a defiler in melee to attack move, it will move and then fire the artillery and then forgets to melee; even if you specify the target. Defiler will only melee if you tell it to "attack melee" a specific target. Thats not cool.

desocupado
3rd Apr 07, 10:32 AM
To Slow_runner: May I ask why did you make this thread? Do you intend to have all this fixes done then send them to relic and ask them to give their aproval or something like this? I agree with the fixes being really needed, but I don´t see listing them doing anything, since there was a thread with LOTS of bugs from the guard that was kind of ignored in this patch.

Edit: I said kinda, I know some bugs pointed in that list were fixed, but a few weren´t, like the guardsman sargent damage.

Affenkot
3rd Apr 07, 11:08 AM
yeah slowrunner !!! =D do something !!! =D

War-Reborn
3rd Apr 07, 11:15 AM
Tinkering with it a bit more, the autocannon is working just fine. Just the long reload time and crappy accuracy are making it very difficult to notice it hitting (because, well, it doesn't hit all that much). Also it's missing a firing animation, but that's all that I'm noticing.

Do you mean you have managed to get it firing properly, within it's supposed min an max ranges? or does it still only fire within it's own very specific range?

I take it the acurracy on the autocannon is 50%?

Nice work tinkering around with it, hopefully this issue is something that can be fixed, with an easy tweak

DukeRustfield
3rd Apr 07, 3:08 PM
Finally defiler AI needs tweaking to where melee mode overrides artillery cannon fire. Right now, if you tell a defiler in melee to attack move, it will move and then fire the artillery and then forgets to melee; even if you specify the target. Defiler will only melee if you tell it to "attack melee" a specific target. Thats not cool.
All multi-weapon units do this. It's no different than say, a CSM. If you tell it to attack something and it's on range, it likewise "forgets" to melee. You have to set it to F6/melee to change that. Working as intended.

Slow_Runner
4th Apr 07, 1:08 AM
Both to send it to Relic as well as to help anyone who's making a mod to fix these issues. That's why I want fixes to these and not just bug reports.

About the autocannon, it is firing properly in 1.2. It's missing an animation and due to the long reload and crappy accuracy it's difficult to notice it actually hitting anything (because it doesn't hit much, but that's not due to a bug, only the reload and accuracy). I upped its accuracy to 1, removed the accuracy on the move penalty and disabled damage on all the other weapons (still firing, just not doing any damage) and the autocannon was hitting at maximum range and minimum range and everything in between.

Subaku, those are bug reports, not fixes.

Troubleshooter
4th Apr 07, 8:03 AM
Uncapped Lightning field damage battery.

The_Guardman
4th Apr 07, 8:19 AM
What about the Map and tooltip issue? Those are easy to fix (I can do it by myself, no Lua knowledge is needed) and would be very appreciated.

Just to say, the Minimap rotation can be fixed with any decent paint program (I use Photoimpact), the render water can be fixed whit the Mission Editor and the Tooltip whit a notepad (open DXP2/Locale/language/DXP2).

Edit: can we know if the Wirlwind no friendly fire is intentional or not? Ever with friendly fire, his godly accuracy and damage are worth the T4 anyway...

Question
4th Apr 07, 1:14 PM
Erm, techpriest is listed under the SM list of changes o.O.

Im sure people have noticed this before, but im surprised no one has reported it. The librarian defaults to ranged stance when built, always. He should default to assault stance.

dreddnott
4th Apr 07, 1:43 PM
Necron Lord Lightning Field could be fixed by having the charge capped at 900 as stated in the changelog. Lightning Field is apparently not well understood by either us or Relic so I'm not sure how one would go about doing this, but it's obvious that Relic's intention was to cap the Lightning Field charge when the graphic stops (around 900 damage received, where it deals ~315 damage).

The Librarian change was probably intentional. He only does really good close-combat damage against monster_med, monster_high (the Daemon armour types) and vehicle_high, he's weaker than the Force Commander and Chaplain, and has a few nice ranged spells.

Hiroshi_Tea
4th Apr 07, 5:13 PM
here's something that's never used
but still
it should be there
HWT melee while unentrenched is 0.0 across the board

Maktaka
4th Apr 07, 5:31 PM
The Necron Lord Lightning Field issue is not resolvable outside of altering the game engine. The damage cap of 900 IS specified along with the other properties of the ability in the NL's squad LUA, but the game engine doesn't use it. As such, outside of a patch to the game by Relic, this can't get a fix.

Jaimas
4th Apr 07, 5:46 PM
Haha. So much for being a no-brainer. :banana:

And to think, my bringing up the Psyker Caster Bugs were edited out, for that exact same reason....

dreddnott
4th Apr 07, 5:46 PM
From this, Maktaka, would it be safe to assume that the Lightning Field NEVER had a damage cap, and it was just the fact that the graphic tops off at 900 instead of 1800 that we (I) finally noticed it?

SubakuGaara
4th Apr 07, 7:26 PM
All multi-weapon units do this. It's no different than say, a CSM. If you tell it to attack something and it's on range, it likewise "forgets" to melee. You have to set it to F6/melee to change that. Working as intended

No I'm saying that if you have a defiler set in melee mode (same mode as say a berzerker's default) and you tell it to attack move to an area, it moves forward, fires an artilerry round at a target and then forgets to melee despite being in melee mode; it'll just stop and keep shooting artilerry despite being in f6+f5 mode (melee+chase em forever). You have to specifically hit "attack melee' and pick a specific target and that'll shutoff the defiler artillery and then it'll actually melee. I'm serious. In my experience only the defiler does this because its the only unit with a melee and a long range artilerry. Artilerry just screws it up somehow.

Maktaka
4th Apr 07, 7:41 PM
From this, Maktaka, would it be safe to assume that the Lightning Field NEVER had a damage cap, and it was just the fact that the graphic tops off at 900 instead of 1800 that we (I) finally noticed it?

I wouldn't be surprised. Nobody ever really hit the damage limit before since it had twice the cap and only charged on receiving melee damage.

Also, some good news on the CS Priest morale bonus overriding the Commissar's: it's fixable without screwing up anything else. I did some fiddling around with Corsix's mod tools and got positive results. Each modifier of the Priest's abilities can be separately set to exclusive. So the health bonus, min damage bonus, max damage bonus, and speed bonus can be left as exclusive while the morale bonus is not (it's worth noting that the normal Priest has no exclusive modifiers anymore).

There's one downside to nonexclusive morale bonuses on the Priests, their morale modifiers stack with each other now. So four Priests now stack together to give a 200 morale bonus instead of just the usual 50. Perhaps the CS Commie should have the exclusive bonus and the Priest does not?

Unusual quirk in the game:
The DoW engine has had the capability to do selective exclusivity like this for all of DC, perhaps even earlier, but I didn't start poking around in the game files until DC. However, I know of no abilities, weapon effects, or researches that use this trick.

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 12:31 AM
Added several things (and changes the Techpriest over to IG :p).

If you can post what's wrong and how to fix it, it belongs here. If you can only post what's wrong without fixing it, it belongs in The_Guardman's oversight thread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2223357#post2223357). As long as you can't post a fix to the lightning field issue, it's not a fix, it's a bug report. Same applies to the Librarian stance thing and the Defiler quirkiness.

Jaimas, did you have a point there?

Octopus Rex
5th Apr 07, 4:49 AM
I was thinking about the Kroot Hounds:

neither the Krootox nor the Greater Knarloc have health regen either, even though they are living creatures just like the kroot hounds. Ok, so maybe this is because they are big bad units and don't need it. However, Crisis sutis DO have regeneration, why is that?

Just a note: at a health regen rate of 1 it would take a Krootox 50 minutes to regain only 50% of it's health and it would take a Knarlock over an hour to get 50% of it's health. So, there it certainly be given to them without being IMBAAAAAA. Further, considering that neither of these units can be repaired I think that there's certainly something amiss here. Either units shold regen or be repairable, otherwsie you end up ditching damaged units and building new ones.

Not sure, how do you feel about that Runner? Is it more of a balance thing? Or is is a no-brainer?

Jaimas
5th Apr 07, 8:46 AM
Yet more bugs and value screw-ups:
* Psyker caster bugs remain. There are 2 variations of it; the easiest one to see occurs when the Psyker starts casting Strip Soul, and the target moves out of range (I.E. targetting a jump-capable squad). Strip Soul fizzles out, and has to recharge as normal if this occurs - a weakness that does not appear to be shared by Mind War. The other occurs when casting and the target dies.
* Virtually every IG unit does 0 morale damage in CC, and 0 on special attacks. It's possible for a broken Tau FW squad to melee guardsmen, regroup in the middle of the fight, break the GMs, and win the battle.
* Kroot Hounds do not appear to regenerate health.
* Chronometron still operates if the NL becomes the Nightbringer.

That's it for now. Expect more later.

CrazySteve
5th Apr 07, 8:59 AM
Is it possible to make it so lightening feild only affects specific targets, like just the infantry armor classes. Yeah i know it doesn't fix the underlying problem, but at least it will stop people from 1hit killing buildings and vehicles with it.

Ruonim
5th Apr 07, 9:14 AM
Tau:
-firewarrior -> building 2 shield drones or 2 shas'ui
u get 1 ability, and should be able to activate twice,or recharge halved.

Maktaka
5th Apr 07, 9:28 AM
The Psyker bug's fix is to shorten the initial delay and caster busy time and speed up the animation to match so as to avoid the issue to a degree. I've seen that same bug occur to the Farseer a-way back in DoW vanilla, but it's very very rare because of Mind War's longer range and quick casting time. I'm pretty sure this is a flaw of the engine, and unlike the Lightning Field issue one unlikely to ever get a fix, just the workaround above.

The workaround DOES have the advantage of making Strip Soul more potent by reducing the squad stun time while the Psyker does his make-your-head-asplode thing (thankfully he no longer does the well-my-head-asplode thing). Perhaps we should nerf the damage on Strip Soul some more to compensate? (kidding! I know Jaimas would hurt someone if that happened)

The morale issue is easily resolvable by simply giving them a token morale damage in melee, just enough for a large enough squad (7+ men) to maintain broken morale in melee (total of 10 morale DPS, after morale armor is factored in), although not cause the breaking in the first place. These are GM after all, nobody's gonna lose their morale when these guys start thrusting their pointy flashlights at them.

I've got some ideas on the Chronometron, will experiment soon. It might be possible to make the Nightbringer summon inflict the aura-breaking effect of the Chaplain's Demoralizing Shout on the Necron Lord (and Nightbringer too, just to be sure), thereby disabling the Chronometron. Like I said, needs some experimenting.

I don't see a way to make LF selectively target by armor type. I think Relic will need to enhance the Lightning Field squad extension to pull that off, but if they're in there already they might as well just get the bug instead.

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 10:55 AM
Octo, the missing regen values are definitely nobrainers. It's alive, it regens.

Jaimas, please, this is not a "report weird stuff" thread. It's a fix list so please refrain from posting just bugs without any attempt at a fix. And reporting already mentioned issues does not help (Kroot Hound regen, it's explained in the first post, 9th post and mentioned in the post just before yours). Adding Guardsmen and Kasrkin lack of morale damage values in CC to the list (I'd appreciate something more specific than "virtually every unit", as much as I like to help out with this, checking every CC weapon and special attack in the IG army is a fair bit of work).

Jaimas
5th Apr 07, 11:05 AM
GMs, Kasrkin, HWTs, Psykers, Priests, and Commissars do not appear to do morale damage in melee, or on special attacks for that matter.

Ogryns do 0.5/hit, and none on special attacks.

Obviously, the fix is to fix the values on those.

Lunesta
5th Apr 07, 12:03 PM
the tau firewarrior shas'ui does not fire at the same range as the upgraded fire warrior team

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 12:41 PM
Thanks Jaimas, added.

Tau Shas'Ui gun range (and lthe fact that upgrades don't have an effect) added.

Maktaka
5th Apr 07, 12:55 PM
Back with info on Chronometron. I scrapped my aura breaker idea (too complicated) and went with something simpler.

As it's currently implemented, the ability has a series of children. Presumably these children allow the ability to spread to whatever units the Necron Lord gets close to as he moves around. Unfortunately these children also persist even after the NL becomes the Nightbringer. Simply removing the child of the root ability breaks the chain, causing the ability to no longer remain once the Nightbringer is summoned. This also breaks the spread effect, so it's not without drawbacks. I see no way to get both the spreading (which requires children as near as I can tell) and stopping the aura when the NB is summoned (which requires no children).

Also got something that should work for the Tau Shield drone/ Shas'ui ability recharge (untested, but it sounds right in my head).

Double the recharge time for both of their abilities, but give each one an always on squad ability that halves the recharge ability for units of the same type within the squad. With just one leader in the squad, this leaves you with the squad operating exactly as before. With one of each, it's also the same because their abilities only apply to the same unit type. With two of one type, their recharge reduction will stack to provide a 50% recharge rate from normal on their abilities. I'll test this out later to confirm that it actually works.

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 1:01 PM
Wait, are the Energy Shield and Photon grenade not recharged on both leaders separately? I know for a fact that for CS there is a separate ability recharge for each ability in the squad, ie. if you have two psykers, you have two CotMSs recharging separately of one another.

Shujaa
5th Apr 07, 1:05 PM
Correct, having 2 Shield Drones does not affect the "shield" ability recharge time at all. It acts as if you only have one drone. Ditto for Photon Grenade.

The_Guardman
5th Apr 07, 1:33 PM
What about IG and Kaserking Plasmaguns range not matching the Lasgun range?

@Slow_runner: can you reply me about the tooltips and the maps, please? They are very easy to fix.

EDIT: is the psyker istant-breaking his own attached squad/ CS when casting lightinings or mind blow really a feature???

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 1:39 PM
Sorry Guardman, forgot those. Yeah, if you know how to fix something, feel free to post here.

EDIT: Maktaka, there's an easy fix to the Photon grenade and Personal Shield problems: spbs file, squad_loadout_ext -> async_ability: true. Fixes the problem right up. Adding now.

corncobman
5th Apr 07, 2:35 PM
I noticed that the Techpriest Enginseer has a morale regeneration rate of 50 per second.

The Captain has a rate of 11.

SirNick
5th Apr 07, 2:47 PM
I'm pretty sure the thing about Shas'ui Photon Grenades and Shield Drone, erm, shield ability things is intentional (where they don't stack).

Photon Grenades are 100-damage, radius 10 blasts in a can. Two of those in quick succession per squad would absolutely cream anything remotely dangerous pre-Tier 3.

The ranged damage shield is -50% for 20 seconds. Chain that and you've got 40 full seconds of portable heavy cover. More if one drone dies in the meantime and reinforces, conceivably.

I could see the independent recharge as extremely imbalanced if abilities are kept as is.

Also, @Guardsmen Plasma Gun ranges, I also think that that's a deliberate thing for balance - the Plasma Guns are shorter ranged to compensate for the much higher DPS. You could either play keep-away with the Lasguns at range 32 post-Resolution or jump on in back at range 26 with your 55 DPS Plasma Guns.

Same thing with the Shas'ui.

Wish I could think of some fix to contribute myself rather than playing Devil's Advocate at the moment, but I'll be back soon. Just wanted to throw those balance considerations out there as to why some situations would be as they are.

The_Guardman
5th Apr 07, 3:05 PM
that that's a deliberate thing for balance
Hu? So SM plasma should be less range too? Fine for me. :D
Not wishing to open a balance issue, but when I by the plasmagun, I already taking a drawback: cost and time. Most of the PG problems arise from his shorten range, that is the same of a SM plasma. To me it is a leftover from the WA beta, where IG most probably had the same range of the SM bolters/plasma (they have it in TT and fluff). An overlook, more than a balance.

Maps:
- Tranquility end:
open the Tranquility End_icon.TGA file with any .bmp editor, rotate it 90°, save, close, check ingame the minimap.

- Fallen city:
open fallen city.TGA with the ME, enable RENDER WATER in the options, save, close, check.



Tooltips:

Check the entryline in the appropriated unit (it appear as $#####). Now, open
DXP2 (or WH40k or WXP)/locale/language.UCS and change the appropriated line with a text editor. It is very sensible to changes, so make backups and triple check in game.

- Eldars:
- Grav platform tooltips still say they can be attached to squads. This is not true.
Remove the false line

- The Vyper tooltip say that can be upgraded to be effective against vehicles. Untrue.
Remove the false line

- Imperial Guard:
- Commisar tooltip say it make the attached squad morale immune, while this is untrue.
Change in: "Sensibly augment the attached unit morale."

- Chaos:
- Bloodthirster still says the cost goes up every time you summon it. I think it's been like this since the original, yet it's never actually been true.
Remove the false line

- The demon pit doesnt list the demon prince research under the tool tip.
Add it.

- CSM Temple (ie. barrack) tooltip lists "allows the building of csm armory" This is untrue.
Remove the false line

Slow_Runner
5th Apr 07, 3:06 PM
Hmm.. I guess the ability recharges might be intentional. Could be that they wanted players to have the option to upgrade the squad with both leaders but since the engine doesn't allow (I assume) for separately capped leader slots, had to go with 2 leader slots that could be filled with any possible combo.

Guardsman plasma gun range I can understand, but the Shas'Ui doesn't do that much more damage IMO to warrant such a dramatic difference in range (with upgrades, compare 50 to 30 when dps is 20.5 vs 22.4, only major differences in damage being against some building and vehicle types).

The_Guardman
5th Apr 07, 3:28 PM
I think it is an overlook leftover from the WA beta.
During the beta, IIRC, the IG had the same range of the SMs (as in fluff & TT), and was buffed after to balance them. The plasma range was most probably forgotten due to the huge change of direction in the middle of the project, as the IG hero/weapons upgrade and the HWT seem to point out, and as evidence from the enourmous amount of silly things WA had brought to us.
It was a very rushed projct IMHO.

Yes, it is just speculation, but it is also very possible. Lot more than to have to pay for a weapon upgrade with a drawback.
Anyway, if it is for balance, i ask for a range REDUCTION of SM & CSM plasmagun.

EDIT: changes in the previous page, Slow.

Ruonim
6th Apr 07, 1:15 AM
well fw have only 310hp and it dont incresse over time. And he said about photon granades. How about plasma ones? Eldar can spam them in t1. Is he killing everything with them? Not to mention they knockback also.

Slow_Runner
6th Apr 07, 1:26 AM
Ruonim, FW have 340 hp and they can get upgraded to 374 hp and terminator armor and they get 200 extra hp from the Ethreal. That's besides the point however and I don't want this to turn into a balance discussion. The way it is in 1.2 might be intentional or it might not be, we're not here to make final judgment on that. The fix is there if someone wants to use it in a mod or a patch.

Ruonim
6th Apr 07, 1:54 AM
i know ;] but he stated that this would make tham imba. And etheral is t4 and hp buff is koyun path.

Slow_Runner
6th Apr 07, 3:46 AM
And again, the way it is in 1.2 might be intentional or it might not be, we're not here to make final judgment on that. The fix is there if someone wants to use it in a mod or a patch.

It's an inconsistent oddity, there's a fix. If someone wants to use that fix they're free to do so, if Relic balance team thinks it would be imbalanced, they won't use the fix in a patch.

Maktaka
6th Apr 07, 4:01 AM
Just found one for the Orks. The More Dakka and Even More Dakka researches are supposed to boost building guns and slugga weaponry. For some bizarre reason, neither do anything for Nobz because they apply a bonus to the shoota_nob weapon, which isn't even used in the game, instead of the slugga_nob. Fix is simply changing the modifier to apply to the correct weapon.

Slow_Runner
6th Apr 07, 5:52 AM
Shoota_nob is used by Nob Leaders. Nobs don't really need a ranged boost (not that Stormies or Sluggas are in desperate need of it either) but if someone wants to fix this for consistency, adding min and max modifiers for ork_slugga_nob should indeed do the trick.

Ruonim
6th Apr 07, 6:55 AM
etheral holographic skill copies unit hp but not armor calss for it. its supousse to copy armor class too. i think its engine problem.

Hiroshi_Tea
6th Apr 07, 9:26 AM
think that's the way it's meant to be

if it copied armor
then that would be massive IMBA
think of a holographic gnarloc
if it copied armor
it would completely be ridiculously hard to kill
and and would be a game breaking distraction
as it can tie up entire squads

Ruonim
6th Apr 07, 9:59 AM
read description in game ><. And it does 0 dmg.

Hiroshi_Tea
6th Apr 07, 10:05 AM
I'm not an idiot

it ties up a freaking squad
do you know the implications of that?
even if it does no damage
it will tie up a squad in combat
or disrupt pathing
until the image is gone

what can that ever do?
it can screw up a retreat completely
because you have some armored image
blocking your way whick result in part of your army dying
or it can keep your one of your expensive ranged squads
from ever firing a shot at all

Octopus Rex
6th Apr 07, 12:40 PM
Ok - squiggoth is alive yet does not regenerate, but CAN be repaired....not sure how you feel about this.

Targeting Optics for Tau: does not effect the Shasui or Shasvre at all. This could be a balance issue, but I think they should at least effect the sight range of the leaders, if not the weapon range.

Shasui Pulse Carbine = basic range 30.
Fire Warrior Pulse Rifle = basic range 35.

I can't see how a difference of 5 is anything to do with balance as it's not really significant enough, and it just seems a bit odd really. Again, it's up to you with this one.

The_Guardman
6th Apr 07, 1:55 PM
This thing borderline the ridiculous. Ig have to run in your face to use his plasma, and tau should be able to use to full extent theire sergeants? All or nothing. This is not a no-brainer, this is a balance issue IMHO.

Octopus Rex
6th Apr 07, 2:17 PM
Dude, this isn't about "buff Tau, nerf IG", it's not about re-balance or making sure your favourite race gets some loving (Octo notes the nickname "The Guardman"). It's just about "hmm, that seems like a really odd/silly/obvious blunder/mistake on Relic's part, I guess they must have overlooked it, it's pretty easy to fix". It's not like we're making the next patch here, don't worry IG won't be getting nerfed because of this.

If I seem biased towards Tau it's only because I'm currently modding them and keep spotting little things, not because I play them at all.

Slow_Runner
6th Apr 07, 2:31 PM
Guardman, the Firewarrior thing is slightly better damage at almost half the range on a max of 2 leaders per squad. Guardsmen plasma is like 4 times the damage on possibly 5 units in the squad and the difference in range is.

Guardsmen Sergeants actually have range 30 on their laspistols while the Guardsmen Lasgun goes to 32.4 with the Satellite Targeting research.

I agree that 22 (26.4 with the upgrade) range on Guardsmen Plasma Guns is silly as any standard weapon easily has at least 25 range and the lasguns also fire up to 27 (32 with upgrade).

EDIT: Necron builder scarabs have a 12 second flag plant animation which renders the scarab planting the flag immune to damage for those 12 seconds. All other races' cappers have a plant time of 3 seconds. Fix: Reduce the duration of scarab flag plant animation to 3 seconds.

anilkocman
7th Apr 07, 3:09 AM
when is this mod coming out? HotfixMode ... :confused:

War-Reborn
7th Apr 07, 3:31 AM
Baneblade autocannon, (i know i'm obssessed!!) i think a good hot fix would be to turn it's dps down an it's accuracy up, so same overall level of dmg, but you get to see it actually hit stuff, (having a gun that you hardly see working is'nt very cool) add a firing animation an a better hit animation, i think the current 1 is 4 or 5 dot's flying off a target, if i seen it right.

Kaskin speed reseach, does not stack with priest one, any other commander attachment overides it so you get no speed bonus, seems a bit odd this one, a key concept behind IG is you use commanders to bring your infantry up to full power, yet this upgrade is rendered completey useless by any kind of commander attachment, it may aswell not be there unless your using the squad solo, which seems to go against the whole IG concept of commanders.

Slow_Runner
7th Apr 07, 4:31 AM
There's not a mod working on this yet as far as I know.

Yeah, Autocannon fix needs just a firing animation. To make it a sensible weapons, tune down damage while upping the accuracy and possibly lowering reload time so you can actually see it hit something (and the Autocannon has a decent rate of fire in the TT too).

The_Guardman
7th Apr 07, 11:38 AM
The KaserKin speed upgrade do not stack with the priest speed bonus.

This is most probably a bug, the patch team/ devs for sure know that IG always attach the priest to the KK. So, no point in having to pay for an upgrade that effectivly give you nothing.
This demostrate that the no-cumulative factor is in fact a missed feature IMHO.

Soluion:
allow the two bonus to be cumulative.

Maktaka
7th Apr 07, 3:46 PM
The code for the Kasrkin speed upgrade and the Priest's bonus are both set to be non-exclusive, so I think what's happening is the speed bonus modifier cap is getting hit. They stack, but the speed bonus is already maxed out so nothing happens.

The_Guardman
7th Apr 07, 4:19 PM
The old problem of percentil hardcaps.

So, the old solution: make the KK speed bonus an appropriated numerical upgrade instead.

Hiroshi_Tea
7th Apr 07, 4:30 PM
guardsmen armor is a percentile upgrade (i'm 99 percent sure of it)
so if you upgrade the body armor
before the death before dishonor and the like
you get less health than if you wait for tier 2
and get both morale upgrades and then the Body armor

Maktaka
7th Apr 07, 4:54 PM
No worries on that Hiroshi. You've got the modifier setup right, but the effects are always recalculated from scratch when something changes. It doesn't matter what order you research the upgrades in, the results are always the same.

weirwood
7th Apr 07, 6:08 PM
The code for the Kasrkin speed upgrade and the Priest's bonus are both set to be non-exclusive, so I think what's happening is the speed bonus modifier cap is getting hit. They stack, but the speed bonus is already maxed out so nothing happens.

I think the problem is, the kasrkin do get both both speed buffs, but the priest doesn't, hence the squad is slowed down to priest speed. I don't know if it's possible for the kassie speed to affect attached leaders.
If it were possible, that'd be the preferred solution, since you could then also attach commies and psykers without losing the speed bonus.

Jaimas
7th Apr 07, 7:10 PM
Here's one that needs to be addressed: The Psyker breaking itself and the squads it's attached to.

I've yet to get a solid, game-mechanic answer to one question: why, for the love of the Emperor, does this mechanic even exist? The abilities aren't strong enough to warrant it, certainly, and no other unit in the game has this ridiculous mechanic, thus eliminating all precedence.

There is no reason - at all - to attach them to squads, and little incentive to keep them in a CS save as a detector or COTMS unit. And considering that those are 2 of its 6 roles (Lightning Arc, Strip Soul (which currently is borderline useless for its intended purpose), COTMS, Detection, Disruption, and attachment to buff GMs), that means the unit, as it stands, is woefully inefficient.

The fact that it does morale damage to itself is ridiculous. It shouldn't. Period.

This also augments the fact that outside of their powers and detection, Psykers do nothing for their attached squad as it is - a problem persistent in no other unit in the Imperial Guard.

Removing the idiotic morale blastback would be huge step in the right direction. Moreover, it's easily fixed with nothing more than an LUA edit.

GRIM Ripper
7th Apr 07, 7:29 PM
i think youre right weirwood... even if the modifiers DID stack, the priest can only go so fast... he doesnt inheret the speed of the squad hes in.

War-Reborn
8th Apr 07, 3:20 AM
i think youre right weirwood... even if the modifiers DID stack, the priest can only go so fast... he doesnt inheret the speed of the squad hes in.

Thats a fair point, but what about the the other commanders?, the whole point of commanders is there supposed to enhance, the performance of the squad, not reduce it, research should be reworked, even if a priest does'nt make the squad, speedy gonlazes, the other commanders should'nt slow it down, may aswell remove it alltogether in it's current state, it's just a icon cluttering up the tatica

Sjeg
8th Apr 07, 5:55 AM
I'm not 100% sure if it is fixed in 1.2 but the dreadnought HB did more Fotm then everything else in 1.11...I guess it's still there...

Sjeg

The_Guardman
8th Apr 07, 6:20 AM
Nice find. Slow have not listed it despite being in the Oversight collection tread (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2223357#post2223357) .

- SM Dreadnought Lascannon and Assault Cannon have no fire on the move penality. All others walkers have it.

(Someone have to check the penality for the Necron Tomb Spyder and the others necron vehicles: is it high as for NW, Immortals ad Pariha, or low as "normal" units?
The necron vehicles have no slow speed to explain a lessened FoM penality. In fact they tend to be faster, being unaffected by cover speed reduction).

War-Reborn
8th Apr 07, 7:18 AM
Yeah but i'm guessing the reason dreads have no FOTM penatly is you loose half there cc dmg with one of these ranged upgrades, even with no FOTM penatly people dont really make use of them, simply because the power fists are much better

Jaimas
8th Apr 07, 9:32 AM
Tooltip Edits:
Tooltips say that Terminators are "effective against most units in close combat." They actually have lower CC damage than Scouts do.
Fix: Either buff the Terminators to SM CC levels (something which people have pushed for since Termies became an elite, BTW) or fix the tooltip.

Similar with Obliterators. Tooltips say they are effective against most things in CC, when they're actually effective against nothing in CC.
Fix: Same as SM. Either buff their melee to around CSM Levels (again, something people have clamored for for some time), or fix the tooltip.

This is also true of Honor Guard Variations.

Slow_Runner
8th Apr 07, 9:38 AM
Jaimas, the Psyker morale damage is clearly an intended feature. You're more than welcome to argue that it doesn't make sense and make a thread about it, but I don't think removing it is quite that clear cut. Fix is obviously to remove the morale damage of 300 in the caster_damage part on strip soul and lightning arc.

Also I've been trying to tinker with the Kasrkin speed / priest bonus thing and I'm having difficulty finding a fix. It seems that the Priest is dragging the Kasrkin squad down to his speed, hitting the speed modifier cap is definitely not the problem.

Octopus Rex
8th Apr 07, 10:06 AM
Kasrkin + Priests:

Priests and Kasrkin both have a base speed of 16.

Priests has an ability that applies to his squad that increases speed by 33%. This means that the Priest will always go at 21.28 (16 + 33%) because he is always in his own squad.

Kasrkin has an upgrade that increases their speed (both trooper and sergeant) by 33%. So once upgraded the Kasrkins's will travel at 21.28 also (16 + 33%).

When you attach the priest the Kasrkin's speed is increased by a further 33%, so 21.28 + 33% = 28.30.

However, the max speed of the squad is defined by it's slowest member, in this case that is the Priest who remains at a speed of 21.28.

So: the speed of a kasrkin squad is 21.28 with or without the priest. That is what you are paying for with the upgrade. Do you really think KKs running around at 28 really that sensible? A commisar or psyker will slow them back down to 16, but a priest allows them to continue at the higher speed.

Are you SURE that they are actually slowing down? Or are you expecting them to get faster but they are not?

Hope that makes sense.

Also: speed modifier cap? Eh?

The_Guardman
8th Apr 07, 10:34 AM
Well, can't it affect attached unit too?

And yes, I wish to have them moving at 28.30 with Priest attached. I'm payng 100/50 for that damn upgade, and I will be very glad to see it having an emperor-damn-it effect: buffing the speed if they are alone make no sence, given the fact that the IG infantry as whole is thinked to work only fully upgraded and with attached leaders.

Octopus Rex
8th Apr 07, 11:28 AM
It can't affect the attached unit I'm afraid. It has to specify which entities it increases the speed of (kasrkins, kk segreants and a single player kaskrkin type that isn't relevant here), it cannot alter an unspecificied attached unit. But...(see later)

IMO: this is not a bug/no-brainer fix.


given the fact that the IG infantry as whole is thinked to work only fully upgraded and with attached leaders. Maybe Kasrkins are designed with the intention that they may be used alone occasionally, saving the leaders for the weaker G-men squads. It's an extra option. Then again, maybe not. I think that while Relic's intentions here are unclear, this is still their call and may not necessarily be a mistake as such. The speed research is designed to effect Kasrkins. It does that. It is not designed to effect all mini-commanders, so it does not effect them.

My point is that you don't seem to be that bothered about the fact that Commies etc. actually slow them down, surely this is slightly more of an issue? What bothers you is that priests don't speed them up. This is because you mainly use priests by the sound of it, and this would suggest to me a bias towards your own playing style rather than plain bug finding. Meh. Whatever.

Slow_Runner: possible way round it - set the research to effect "squad_type" and set the squad as kasrkins obviously. I haven't tried it, but this may work.

weirwood
8th Apr 07, 1:03 PM
Maybe Kasrkins are designed with the intention that they may be used alone occasionally, saving the leaders for the weaker G-men squads.

They certainly were designed with that intention, before the hard-cap. Now that they're capped at one, the speed research is pretty redundant, since they'll have a priest attached 90% of the time, but that's a balance issue, not a no-brainer bug-fix.

Slow_Runner
8th Apr 07, 1:50 PM
Yea I was tinkering with the idea of squad type modifier but couldn't get it to work on my first try. I also toyed with the idea of a Kasrkin ability that would activate when the research is done but then one would have to make it exclusive to keep it from stacking within the squad which would in turn screw up the priest modifier. =/

Octopus Rex
8th Apr 07, 2:18 PM
Note regarding the Commissar/Priest Command Squad bonus stacking: the commisar offers NO BONUS to the Command Squad. The ability "let_your_aim_be_true_command_squad" has NO MODIFIERS. Weird but true.

weirwood
8th Apr 07, 2:26 PM
Yeah, but it inherits the morale bonus from the normal your_aim_will_be_true. Which will get overridden by the priest.

Octopus Rex
8th Apr 07, 2:32 PM
nope. The command squad version of the ability specifically cancels out the modifiers that it is inheriting. Hence the "no_modifier" line being the only one there. I've also checked it in the AE.

Edit: oops, I was looking at the health regen modifer. Sorry!

Maktaka
8th Apr 07, 2:37 PM
I also toyed with the idea of a Kasrkin ability that would activate when the research is done but then one would have to make it exclusive to keep it from stacking within the squad which would in turn screw up the priest modifier. =/

Make it an ability of the squad (add it to the sbps LUA) instead of the unit (ebps LUA) and you should get what you're going for.

Any I have no idea what I was on with that speed modifier cap. I'm sure there is one, but the Priest slowing them down thing makes so much more sense.

Octopus Rex
8th Apr 07, 3:05 PM
Unfortunately you can't stick abilities on the squad. All the squad based abilities are specially made extensions, most of which appeared in DC. Cheers Relic! :rolleyes:

Maktaka
8th Apr 07, 5:12 PM
Huh, coulda sworn you could, but upon checking the LUAs, you're right. Shoulda waited until I got home to verify that before I said it.

On a completely different note, there are a ton of death explosions in the game that don't have proper piercing values, meaning they do no damage. Death explosions are what power generators can do (25% chance) when they're destroyed. The original four races' power generators and thermos all have proper death explosions, dealing low damage and some morale damage to any unit close enough. The Pile O' Gunz! likewise has a proper death explosion (never a good idea to leave that much ammo lying around).

Unfortunately, IG's power generators don't have piercing values for anything. The following units have death explosions that do no damage. They have min and max damages (which would indicate they're supposed to do damage), but no min damage value and no piercing value, so they only do knockback and morale damage.

Wraithlord
Tomb Spyder
IG Plasma Generator
IG Thermo Plasma Generator
Tau Plasma Generator

The fix? Give them piercing values or a min damage value. It's also worth noting that Necron Plasma Generators and Thermo Plasma Generators have far more powerful death explosions than any other race. But that's balance discussion I think.

Wichesta
8th Apr 07, 7:39 PM
Hi everyone........

Copy and paste form an old SlowRunner thread.

IG:
-When upgrading a listening post to level 3, the Imperial Guard LP not gets an additional hp whereas all the others get a significant increase (Orks get 655 additional hitpoints and SM and CSM get as much as 1200 extra hp).

See yaa...
(i not speak english, sorry)

Hiroshi_Tea
8th Apr 07, 7:58 PM
true that. IG have the highest beginning LP health of 2500
but it caps at 2700
tau starts at 2000, but caps at 3200
SM and chaos caps at around 4062

however, orkies do have it worse
their's is tops at 2480

Wraith_Lord
8th Apr 07, 11:54 PM
Imperial Guard Command Squad: - The Command Squad takes up 2 squad population, even though it is considered to be a squard of hero units. It is inconsistant with all other races' hero units, which take up 0 population. Solution would be to change the squad population cost from 2 to 0. Think this should be added to the list?

The_Guardman
9th Apr 07, 12:05 AM
They are not the only army payng his hero in pop, orks do it. however, Orky heroes cost far less in pop term (1/50th of theire pop each vs. 1/10th of the CS). It is a balance issue.

- I notice in the wiki that the CC damage of the HWT knife (I think unentrenched) are flat ZERO, despite listing a min/max of 10. Is wiki right? Otherwise, need to add it.

Maktaka
9th Apr 07, 1:25 AM
Yep. The HWT is armed with the generic guard_knife and guard_lasgun when undeployed. The knife has no minimum damage value and no piercing values, so it does 0 damage across the board. The lasgun at least is set up to be very close to the GM lasgun.

Slow_Runner
9th Apr 07, 2:03 AM
Wraith_Lord, that's not a clear cut thing, more of a Balance thing.

The_Guardman, that's already in the list.

IG LP3 is indeed apparently a bug, there's a modifier in the LP3 addon that's supposed to bump the health up by 200. In fact it's the exact same modifier as the LP2 addon has. After labbing it a bit, it seem that the second modifier overrides the first one so the fix is to make the second modifier increase health by 400 instead of 200, resulting in the intended +200 hp with LP3.

Maktaka
9th Apr 07, 3:58 AM
You know what's odd about that Slow_Runner is that all the LPs seem to operate that way, with the newest add-on always being the only active one. The Waaagh! Banner however, does not. The extra health listed in the addon's LUA is added cumulatively.

Slow_Runner
9th Apr 07, 6:47 AM
I think I know why that is, the WAAAGH! banners specify a target type (ork_waagh_banner) whereas LPs and the like don't. So while the WAAAGH! banner modifiers all sort of "pile on" on the base banner, LP modifiers... erm... do something else. Tried changing it to the same but failed. Tricksy this.

Octopus Rex
9th Apr 07, 7:48 AM
Just a small point about the G-men Plasma range: I from looking at the LUAs I would say that a range of 22 is intended.

Why? Well, the Lasguns have a range of 27. This has most likely been tweaked so the G-men have a slightly longer range than most infantry, yet not too long. Maybe they tried 30 and found it was too long, but wanted it longer than 25 so they are at an advantage. Relic tends to work in fives, so this sounds relatively plausible to me. The plasma is 22, this is five less than the lasguns. This would make sense if Relic decided to make the Plasma guns shorter range than the Lasguns, so the plasma didn't out-range lots of the heavy-infantry and the G-Men would have to get close for plasma stuff. However, I can also see that putting Plasma at 25, 2 less than lasguns would seem a little pointless, so they probably agreed to have it 5 less. (I'm aware that 27 is only 2 longer than standard range of 25 though, so the argument kind of defeats itself).

Overall: not entriely convinced this is a no-brainer bug-fix and suspect it may be a balance issue.

Note: in my own mod I have raised the range to 25 as would prefer it like this, I'm merely trying to be objective here.

EDIT: just spotted something - Assassin Infiltrate Research has no hotkey. All it needs it something written in the "ui_hotkey_name" bit to sort that one out.

EDIT2: Flash Gitz CC weapon does 1 Morale Damage. Shootas do 5, Sluggas and all the rest using the same weapon as the Gitz (choppas) do 15.

SoulessCorpse
9th Apr 07, 8:25 AM
When updating the main list, can you put some kind of indicator as to what is new? Makes it easier to keep updated by reading it :)

Wraith_Lord
9th Apr 07, 2:43 PM
Okay, I just remembered that Shuriken and Brightlance grav platforms were converted into vehicles as of patch 1.2, correct? I also remembered that I couldn't repair either of them using Bonesingers. Before the patch, they were considered as Heavy Infantry units, so that made sense. However, since they have become vehicles, they still can't be repaired. So, shouldn't they be repairable just like any other vehicle?

Freeloader
9th Apr 07, 3:01 PM
Chaos: When the Bloodthirster leaps and crashes down, it creates a morale break. Also, his initial appearence should generate MAJOR morale break and fear to all enemy units nearby. Since his leap is random, give him his standard jump and flight ability, and a seperate "leap" ability on a chargeable timer. Fair?

Lemme get this straight - Sorceror floats and crashes into the ground and BOOM - big 25 foot tall demon with wings and a big fuckin axe appears in his place. That doesn't break morale? Every single unit within 100 feet should be shitting themselves. Bezerkers generate fear and a Bloodthirster doesn't? That's crazy.

I really, REALLY think his damage should be upped a bit. Every game I play - axes do more damage than swords. Why does the avatar do double the damage the BT does? Does the BT need his damage that high? Not necessarily, but the 650-770 damage range would be nice. You'd think he'd hit harder than anyone.

The coolest unit in the game - he should be one of if not the MOST powerful relic unit. It's not like the Chaos have mad vehicle choices exactly - this would be a fair compensation.

Hiroshi_Tea
9th Apr 07, 3:14 PM
that's more balance than a nobrainer fix

Slow_Runner
9th Apr 07, 3:16 PM
Freeloader, that's a balance issue/feature wishlist.

Anything that I add goes to the bottom of the list, under the given race. I keep them sorted by race so that if you find a fix, it's easy to look it up if it's already on the list. Map fixes and tooltips are also separated. I usually post when I add something.

Added the assassin infiltrate hotkey and grav platform lack of repairability.

Wraith_Lord
9th Apr 07, 11:21 PM
Just to add to my last post...

I BELIEVE that the tooltips for Shuriken and Brightlance platforms still list them as Heavy Infantry units instead of Vehicles.
I can't get to the game right now, so somone might want to double-check those tooltips.
Thanks.

Maktaka
10th Apr 07, 1:46 AM
No problem there, their tooltips make no reference to armor type whatsoever.

Another simple bug with fix. The Hammerhead clone still has vehicle high armor. The fix would of course be changing it to infantry low vehicle med.

Jaimas
10th Apr 07, 12:08 PM
I choose to note, with some dismay, that the overwhelming majority of these "no brainer" fixes - at least as far as the IG are concerned - were brought up during the IG Balance Thread.

At any rate, I propose that Strip Soul's allegedly "effective vs commanders" tooltip be changed, because it is now not effective against anything but infantry units. You're unlikely to kill anything but another GM with it (proving once again, that the Imperial Guard excels against itself).

Also, the tooltip specifying that Chaos Marines can only get Heavy Bolters needs to be fixed.

Yet more tooltip fun: The Power Sword upgrade still claims to change the weapons of the Force Commander and Librarian.

Assassin Scope for the assassin still claims to increase LOS.

Maktaka
10th Apr 07, 12:36 PM
Strip Soul (332 flat damage) isn't too far behind Mind War (315-440), so I'd say it's still effective against commanders in terms of damage comparison. Long chargeup sucks, but the damage is good.

SoulessCorpse
10th Apr 07, 12:47 PM
slow runner, what about my suggestion/request?

Slow_Runner
10th Apr 07, 1:08 PM
SoulessCorpse: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2246627#post2246627

The ease of spotting new stuff to me isn't as important as finding if the fix one's proposing is already in. I usually make a post when I add something to the first post so to keep updated on the latest stuff, just read the latest replies.

EDIT: Jaimas' tooltip thingies (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2248858#post2248858) added.

weirwood
10th Apr 07, 4:56 PM
I don't want to open a can of worms here, but is there any indication that Ig (and Tau) vehicles benefitting from cover is an intentional design decision, rather than an oversight?

In any case, there's some standardisation needed regarding skimmer vehicles and cover movement speed reduction.

The Boz
10th Apr 07, 5:05 PM
IG have always relied on cover, even their vehicles, and even in TT. You'll often find pictures of Lemans hidden behind rubble for some cover, and stuff like that. That's why the Baneblade is mean in capable hands.
But for Tau, I've no idea why they get the bonus too. Kinda goes against their "Attack, retreat, never defend" teachings.

Hiroshi_Tea
10th Apr 07, 6:06 PM
probably helps counnter their vehicle's low hp
Tau has the worst HPs for vehicles
while IG have 2nd lowest

Chris
11th Apr 07, 10:35 AM
I'm not sure if this is an engine limitation but I'll post it anyway.

When using ork or IG buildings to garrison troops it's impossible to select where you want them to exit from. This is extremely frustrating when you have a whole bunch of units jump out of a building right into the firing line of the enemy. Having the rally point affect where the units exit would be an ideal fix.

War-Reborn
11th Apr 07, 10:52 AM
getting into a chim seems bugged, sometimes units just wont get in even if spaces are free, not sure if this affects other transports, had it happen a couple of times using sm, but IG seems to happen a lot

Shujaa
11th Apr 07, 1:28 PM
It does affect other transports, I noticed it when trying to get 3 Broadsides into a Devilfish. Making them all move and then stop, and then trying it again often helps. Seems more like a pathing glitch than something that can be easily fixed.

Wraith_Lord
11th Apr 07, 11:57 PM
Transport pathing problems, when loading or unloading units, are in every strategy game not just this one.

Maktaka
12th Apr 07, 2:34 AM
Got another tooltip error. Berzerk Fury says it increases damage dealt and decreases damage taken. This is incorrect. It increases damage dealt, decreases morale damage taken, and increases physical damage taken.

This error has existed since DoW vanilla as the ability has to my knowledge remained untouched throughout both expansions.

Slow_Runner
12th Apr 07, 2:51 AM
Added.

Tirisyil
12th Apr 07, 4:03 AM
Tooltip error for the Eldar: For the Armour upgrades, it says they affect Reapers, Banshees, Warp Spiders and such, but makes no mention of Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons do get a health increase.

War-Reborn
12th Apr 07, 12:38 PM
This one's a bit... well of a small issue, but i noticed the bolter graphic for the IG general's sub machine gun is the 1 barrelled model, i'm sure the 2 barralled graphic (that looks much nicer) was in 1.1

Wraith_Lord
12th Apr 07, 6:44 PM
From Imperial Guard Mines @ RelicWiki:

" There is no armor piercing value for monster armor of either grade, so the mines default to their min damage value. "

Min damage = 30

Basically, Imperial Guard mines only do 30 dmg to monster_medium and monster_high armor types. Whereas everyone elses' mines are doing around 70-100 dmg.

Wat's more is that IG mines are the only ones that do 90-100 dmg vs Commander armor, whereas all other races' mines do around 20 dmg.

I suggest switching the armor-piercing values for Commander armor with both Monster_Medium and Monster_High. This would make much more sense.

Hiroshi_Tea
12th Apr 07, 6:47 PM
nah
there are hardly any monsters other than the avatar
and the bloodthirster
so it's really a non-issue
and the IG line has no good anti-commander ability
so keep it the way it is

Wraith_Lord
12th Apr 07, 6:58 PM
Well, how many commanders are gonna run over your mines, compared to a bunch of Horrors, or two Krootoxes (8000 hp each when upgraded), or a horde of kroot hounds!

Compared these 15-25something units to what? A Tau Commander who can jet-pack over them? Or a Chaos Sorcerer and Necron Lord, who can just teleport around?

IG are actually worse-off with this bug...

Hiroshi_Tea
12th Apr 07, 7:06 PM
hmm...good point
but horror, orgyns, and PSMs have been chaged in armor type
Daemon_med seems to be phasing out of use
i expect the infarty to be moved out of that armor class with the next patch
ironicly the anti commander damage(as an IH player)
this is actually very good for anti IG
as their commanders usually have around 400 hps

Maktaka
13th Apr 07, 2:22 AM
Don't forget the incorrect armor type on illusion Hammerheads, Slow_Runner!

Also, I've been adding the death explosions to the vanilla vehicles in the wiki (just found out they have them, and I'm willing to bet they've had them since DoW 1.0). As I did so, I found some peculiar bugs:

Wartakks and Looted Leman Russ tanks have death explosions of 0 radius, 0 damage, 0 knockback, 0 everything, but still a 25% chance to trigger.

The Falcon Grav Tank, Wartrukk, and Killa Kan have a series of 4 death explosions, only one of which will trigger. The first of these explosions are also 0 radius, 0 damage, 0 knockback, 25% chance to trigger.

Fix:
Since for the most part vehicle death explosions only do morale damage, but no physical damage, in a radius of 8 to 10 (depending on the vehicle), and good knockback, I'd say adding a radius of 10, knockback akin to a Wraithlord's, and 10 morale damage would give these death explosions that trigger an actual effect.

sn0zcumb3r
13th Apr 07, 2:28 AM
Stormboyz loose the speed upgrade when they have a nob leader
Whats the point in researching it if you cant use it on the squad?

War-Reborn
13th Apr 07, 2:03 PM
IG commanders dont activate the bunker weapons, seems kinda odd that all the infantry,cs,teck priest etc all work the guns except for the commanders, what do they do in those bunkers? sit down, relax have a smoke while all hell breaks loose outside?
gotta be a bug, or oversite, makes no sense

anilkocman
13th Apr 07, 2:50 PM
Can you guys try this pls? I didnt touch the major damage numbers so it should be as balanced as DC 1.2.(no baneblede lascannon and leman russ bolter changes sorry) I tried to include some other problems you mentioned earlier. If you see any abnormality pls tell me. this is my first modding experience in my entire life :bigwave:


edit:check the completed mods section pls.
Sorry SlowRunner. removed link.

Slow_Runner
14th Apr 07, 3:46 AM
anilkocman, glad that you're learning to mod, but this isn't the place to advertise a balance mod or to ask for modding advice. There's an entire sub-forum (http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=96) for modding here and you should read around there and discuss mod related thing as well.

Tirisyil's tooltip, Stormboy speed upgrade thingie and the Hammerhead clone armor type added to the list.

Lone commanders not being able to man the bunker guns is obviously intended. If you'd like to argue why it needs to be changed, start a thread on it.

Jaimas
15th Apr 07, 2:52 PM
Why is it "obviously" intended? Considering that damn Techpriests can man the guns, I'd say it's more of an "obvious" oversight.

War-Reborn
15th Apr 07, 3:13 PM
An old one this but attacking a sqaud in cc, if you knock them all down, the order is forgotten, very annoying if you have your squad in hold ground postion, you click attack, they all get knocked down, you just stand there an start shooting, rather than re engage, ok you can use the other stances an it kinda mitigates this, but it also brings the problem of squads running into a fight when you don't want them too

hmm i cant think of a reason why it would be intended, that lone commanders cant use bunker guns? i mean there pretty expensive i doubt it would be a balance issue, as bunker guns dont do that much dmg an buying a expensive commander to man a turret is'nt somthing most people will be doing i would have thought

Slow_Runner
15th Apr 07, 3:28 PM
War-Reborn, that's a bug submission, not a fix.

Jaimas, such an obvious oversight ever since WA? I doubt it. It would mean that if you break up a Commissar off the squad and garrison both individually, you get two guns firing instead of just one, even though you have the exact same units inside the building. Clearly it would have balance implications. It can be debated with arguments both for and against it, which is why I suggest making a thread about it.

Jaimas
15th Apr 07, 8:09 PM
Ahem, no offense Slow, but there are plenty of IG oversights since WA. No Morale damage in CC and bugged building armor comes readily to mind.

The_Guardman
15th Apr 07, 9:23 PM
I think it is a feature (and that is strange, for a time, to be in disfavour of my beloved IG...), not a missed point.

CS and IG units are squads, and Techpriest can man the guns both for balance (help in T0) and fluff (direct link to the machine). The sub-commanders, however, do not do such things in fluff, and are teoretically not needed for a early defence, coming out later.

Wraith_Lord
15th Apr 07, 10:40 PM
Did my Imperial Mines post get read? I think Slow missed it. Thanks.

Slow_Runner
16th Apr 07, 1:01 AM
Jaimas, no morale damage in CC and odd armor types are not quite as obvious as the commander thing. And what The_Guardman said.

Wraith_Lord, like Hiroshi_Tea pointed out, the only units to have monster_high are DP, Knarloc, Squiggoth, BT and the Avatar. Monster_med means Krootox. The list of units with commander armor is much longer and the difference between taking 100 and 30 damage is greater on units with 1000-3000 hp than on units with 5000+ hp. I'm inclined to leave it the way it is.

EDIT:
Something else I think most will agree on: Tau vehicle building and IG turret blueprints. They're both so large that it's difficult to place them on the map. Fix: Reduce entity blueprints to the following:
Tau vehicle building: scale_x = 4, scale_z = 6.
IG turret: scale_2 = 4, scale_z = 1.

If you can think of any other oversized blueprints, post 'em up.

The_Guardman
16th Apr 07, 9:09 AM
More than blueprint, the model of the Mars Pattern.

It can be srinked by command line (I know at least 2 mods that did it, without touching the actual model) and would be very useful. There are situaton where it is simply impossible to use it, or where you have to destroy it to let the BB out.

I know this is not an oversight, however...

weirwood
17th Apr 07, 7:21 AM
Crisis Suit flamer deals very limited AoE damage because it has a 0 degree arc. Of course, if you changed that, you'd also have to do something about it's damage and morale values, so it's probably beyond the scope of a no-brainer fix.

Question
18th Apr 07, 5:39 AM
I just found a very serious problem with eldar.

None of their ranged infantry can hurt daemon_high, which is the BT, avatar, gnarloc and daemon prince.

As a result these units are practically unkillable with an eldar ranged force. Even fully upgraded banshees only do 5.5 DPS to daemon_high, which isnt anywhere enough to kill them.

DRs do 0.3 DPS to daemon_high and it never goes up.

Warp spiders do 1.7 DPS to daemon_high when fully upgraded.

No wonder that 8200 hp knarloc took my full army absolutely ages to kill. My entire infantry force barring the SC was completely unable to harm it.

Fix : Increase their DPS values to something that makes sense.

anilkocman
18th Apr 07, 5:49 AM
here is another wierd thing
autocannon_heavy_weapons_team 108dps to monster_high
i dont know if it is intended or not though

edit:
also when you attach a skull probe to your squad it makes an irritating sound every time you give an order to your squad

Slow_Runner
18th Apr 07, 10:12 AM
Pretty much all balance issues from what I can see.

Question: Try Seer Council, 18 dps per member. I will add the fact that the Harlequin does no damage to monster_high though.

Question
18th Apr 07, 10:26 AM
A full SC takes about 5 minutes to kill the average daemon_high. I shouldnt be forced to rely on one unit out of my entire army to kill someone's uber unit. The non-existent damage against daemon_high for DRs and WS has to be a mistake....it would be like making terminator assault canons do 1 DPS to daemon_high, or the land raider's lascanons do only 5 DPS to vehicle_low.

The_Guardman
18th Apr 07, 1:23 PM
Avatar. Win vs. any monster_high (same tier: 4) singlehandly. Plus, it give you lot of OP bonus.

Octopus Rex
18th Apr 07, 1:25 PM
That's definitely a balance issue.

Maktaka
18th Apr 07, 1:41 PM
Try Brightlances. 33.3 DPS vs monster high, not counting their +75% damage bonus.

On the HWTs, it looks like their damage values for monster high and med got swapped. Their damage for monster high is in line with other infantry while the monster medium damage is a bit better than vehicle high.

anilkocman
19th Apr 07, 7:46 AM
the kroot shaping center regenerates like ork buildings :reporter:

Octopus Rex
19th Apr 07, 7:57 AM
Wow, well spotted. Dunno though, what makes you think that this isn't an intentional feature?

anilkocman
19th Apr 07, 11:49 AM
Wow, well spotted. Dunno though, what makes you think that this isn't an intentional feature?

i really dont know but its the only regenerating "building" tau has meanwhile the very organic kroothounds krootox and knarloc don't heal at all. :cry:

I sometimes think the Tau is freakin wierd :screwy: :screwy:

Wraith_Lord
19th Apr 07, 12:06 PM
According to RelicWiki: :spartaaa:

For the Space Marine Land Raider, the right Twin-Linked Lascannon does:

52.4 dps to Daemon-Medium armor,
78.7 dps to Daemon-High armor,
and 78.7 dps to Vehicle-High armor.

The left Twin-Linked Lascannon does only:

23.8 dps to Daemon-Medium armor,
56.7 dps to Daemon-High armor,
and 56.7 dps to Vehicle-High armor.

This is inconsistant, because both Twin-Linked Lascannons are the exact same weapon, so they should have the exact same values. Other race tanks that use two of the same weapon also have the exact same values for both (Ork Looted Tank, Tau Hammerhead Gunship, Chaos Predator, etc.).

The numbers clearly indicate a much LARGER difference that would affect gameplay. Considering the relatively long reload time of the Lascannon (3 sec), the Land Raider would be doing somewhat less damage against all other ultimates, such as the:

Imperial Guard Baneblade
Ork Squiggoth
Tau Hammerhead Gunships/Greater Knarloc/Krootox
Necron Monolith
Eldar Avatar
and Chaos Bloodthirster.

If this is a mistake, it should be fixed, as it is making a somewhat substantial difference in Land Raider's damage vs monsters and vehicles.

------------------------------------------------------

Also, according to RelicWiki: :Skull:

For the upgraded Space Marine Predator, the the left Lascannon does 15.2 dps to building-high, but the right Lascannon does only 14.3 dps to building-high.

This is inconsistant, because both Lascannons are the exact same weapon, so they should have the exact same values. Other race tanks that use two of the same weapon have the exact same values for both.

This one is only a small difference . . . it probably wouldn't affect gameplay, but still wondering whether or not it should be fixed?


EDIT: Apparently im running out of room. Merged both posts.

Question
21st Apr 07, 5:26 AM
The DR exarch when fully upgraded actually does less damage than a normal squad member to most targets. IIRC they start outdamging the exarch at improved optics + exarch.

Fire dragon and WS exarches arent affected by optic upgrades.

Tau gnarloc builds in 30 seconds, all other race's uber unit builds in triple the time at 90 second, barring the monolith at 100% build time which also builds in 30 seconds(if 100% = half build time). Uber unit spam anyone?

Tau stealth suit leader Shas'vre's fusion blaster is range 20, normal suit fusion blaster is range 25 and increases to 28 with advanced pulse rifle. Result : When you order a SS squad with fusion blasters to attack, the leader is standing there doing nothing. He isnt affected by any of the upgrades either.

Burst canon upgrade at the HQ doesnt increase damage of SS fusion blasters or the leader's fusion blaster when the tooltip says it does. This is a useless ability because you can only use SS as AV or harassment units in T2 with fusion blasters and the upgrade doesnt affect those, so theres no reason to get them, unless you want to try SS rushing with burst canons in T1. Targetting optics also only affect burst canon range and not fusion blasters.

Neither the Shas'vre or Shas'ui increases morale of the squad, while everyone else's squad leader does(with exception of eldar exarches who also strangely dont increase morale).

Tau devilfish burstcanon does 1.4 DPS across the board, which makes no sense and must be a mistake.

Broadside missle pods are now completely unable to damage anything. Im not sure if this is intentional or not. My theory is that relic increased the damage of the railgun 3x of its former value to compensate for the smaller squad size, but forgot to increase the value of the misslepods as well.

Howling banshee exarch is not affected by optics upgrades.

Fannin
21st Apr 07, 5:41 AM
Grammatical errors in the SP special map text.

The_Guardman
21st Apr 07, 3:58 PM
Snare traps are affected by the Etereal HP bonus. This is simply ridiculous. In fact all Tau units get it. (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=145855)

Solution:
Remove the HP bonus for the Snare trap, and evalute if it is really needed for Harbringer's Drones, Drone Squad, Tau Fire Warrior squad Shield Drone, and all Vehicles and Kroot units (last two more out of logic than for balance).

War-Reborn
21st Apr 07, 5:47 PM
Kroot are part of the tau, ideology an greater good, the etheral is leader of all tau forces including kroot an vespids, while things like snare trap an harbinger drones etc make sense, an you could even make a argument on the vehicles as they are mechanical in nature, however all the living organisms' should benefit, kroot are not separate enties they are part of the tau army just as FW are, an are under the command of the etherial an tau commander

The_Guardman
21st Apr 07, 7:31 PM
From a fluff perspective, no.

taskmaster-
21st Apr 07, 7:37 PM
Tau TIII units... give teh teh regenerate health

Maktaka
22nd Apr 07, 1:22 AM
Got some for the single player campaign (which means fat chance it'll ever get fixed, but one can hope).

The Victory Sash wargear of the Imperial Guard is supposed to increase the morale of Regimental Bodyguards (honor guard GM) by 100. However, the bonus is apply_to_squad, not apply_to_squad_type and so it doesn't work (just like the GM sergeant health bonus was).

The Carapace Greaves wargear should increase the movement speed of the general and all command squad members by 25%. But the Priest's bonus is a 0% bonus with a 125% chance of applying. The probability to apply and the modifier value entries are swapped.

anilkocman
22nd Apr 07, 7:17 AM
@question

some of those are kinda balance issues dont you agree? :smurf:
but the stealth suit shavre advanced pulse rifle upgrade thingy should be corrected

ZenD
22nd Apr 07, 11:53 AM
If you click on a game that is password protected, could the focus be on the password-box. This way you dont have to click it before you can enter the password.

Octopus Rex
22nd Apr 07, 11:57 AM
I'm pretty sure that's not a no-brainer balance fix. Something to do with GameSpy.

Slow_Runner
22nd Apr 07, 12:18 PM
Updated with fixes from the past 3-4 days.

weirwood
22nd Apr 07, 2:17 PM
If you're including single player issues, the honor guard librarian has only 300 hp instead of 1400.

Slow_Runner
22nd Apr 07, 11:08 PM
Sure am. Added. :D

Wraith_Lord
23rd Apr 07, 3:14 PM
Ooh, another thing I noticed after reading the Greater Knarloc problem.

It says that activating a Necron Restored Monolith takes only 60 sec, even though it's considered a relic unit. All other relic units (except Tau Greater Knarloc and its reasons) take 90 sec.

Then again, each of the three Monolith upgrades takes 60 sec to research. However, to counter this fact, the Restored Monolith upgrade also doubles as the Necron's Tier 4 upgrade.

All other races' Tier 4 upgrades take at least 90 sec, except for the Necrons, which take 60. This is even more reason to raise the Restored Monolith research time to 90 sec.

santiago4ever
23rd Apr 07, 3:50 PM
Arguably Restored Monolith is not the tier 4 research. Building the Energy Core enables Necron tier 4 since it gives access to the Necron super units Restored Monolith, Nightbringer and the Lord Destroyers.

Wraith_Lord
23rd Apr 07, 5:23 PM
Aah, your probably right... I looked and looked, but I couldn't find anywhere the point where it says that Necrons enter Tier 4, so I just assumed it was from the Monolith as usual. But this makes more sense, thanks for that.

Still, Necrons seem strangely able to upgrade much faster than all other races, with 60 sec research times for Tier 2 and 3, and a 45 sec build time for the Energy Core...

Anyway, the Restored Monolith still builds in 60 sec as opposed to other races' relic units building in 90 sec.

fs_xyz
23rd Apr 07, 8:51 PM
I guess because monolith serve as the one and only barrack for necron.
Unless necron player build another one. But that will be a balance discussion...

Question
24th Apr 07, 8:40 AM
Kroot shaper's ranged attack actually does more damage to nearly all infantry armor classes than the melee attack....considering that the only units you can attack the kroot shaper to are melee specialists....this seems kinda weird....

Wraith, the monolith actually builds in something like 30 seconds because of the 100% build time modifier.

santiago4ever
24th Apr 07, 10:01 AM
I don't think so question. It counts as a building upgrade, not as unit production afaik.

SirNick
24th Apr 07, 11:04 AM
Monolith upgrade takes 60s regardless of time bonus. It is indeed so because it's an add-on, not a unit or research, like Santiago says.

So, I've got one that I'm not sure is a balance issue or not but is a consistency thing. IG LP3s don't upgrade to 35 range like all other LP2 --> LP3 upgrades do. They stay at 30 range for both weapons.

So, it's a discrepancy between the LPs, but I'm not sure how much it belongs on the list.

Here's a legit one though --

The CS Psyker on mouseover has no tooltip for Curse of the Machine Spirits in the unit description.

Wraith_Lord
24th Apr 07, 11:42 AM
Aah, looks like I might be wrong about the Monolith, since I am getting told off by a Moderator and three members. =D

Ok, let me try one more argument:

When the Monolith is in its activated state, it can be considered to be a vehicle for all intents and purposes (its armor type changes to Vehicle-High). So, since it is now a vehicle, it is also considered to be a unit. And since the Monolith is the only Necron vehicle and unit that requires a captured relic in order to activate, it can be considered to be a relic unit for all intents and purposes.

And since all other races' relic units (and vehicle relic units such as the IG Baneblade and SM Land Raider) take 90 sec to build, so should activating the Necron Restored Monolith.

[Note: Tau Greater Knarloc build time was listed as an inconsistancy here.]

Also, look at the Ork Squiggoth. It is a relic unit, but it can carry 2 squads of troops on its back and uses Monster-High armor, even though it can be repaired as a vehicle. The fact that the Restored Monolith functions as a heavy assault vehicle and as a mobile troop production building just makes it more unique, like the Squiggoth.

FriedChicken
24th Apr 07, 11:47 AM
Flash Gitz cost 2 pop, but only count as 1 orky pop when it comes to the mob bonus.

I am unsure if this is intended or not, but I thought I would mention it.

Hiroshi_Tea
24th Apr 07, 12:34 PM
psyker sometimes casts strip soul
on dead members of an enemy squad
fix: shorten the time before casting
so that the unit isn't dead from gunfire
before the ability fires off

Wraith_Lord
24th Apr 07, 3:30 PM
Another one from RelicWiki:

The Dark Reaper Exarch's Reaper Cannon does not scale well against Infantry and Vehicles with Optics upgrades, as compared to its squad members' version.

Of note is that the Exarch begins with an extremely low DPS value of 3.0 against all VEHICLE_* armor types.

Regular Dark Reapers with Improved Optics and Superior Optics upgrades scale somewhat against VEHICLE_LIGHT and VEHICLE_MEDIUM armor, while the Exarch's DPS values remain at 3.0 against all three types.

Of much greater note is that even with both upgrades, the Exarch's DPS values scale poorly against most INFANTRY_* and HEAVY_INFANTRY_* armor types as well as MONSTER_MEDIUM armor.

Again, regular Reapers with both Optics upgrades end up dealing much more damage to Infantry and Heavy Infantry than the exarch, when considering that as a leader, he is supposed to excel at this role.

Dark Reaper Exarch's Reaper Cannon DPS:


INFANTRY_LOW = 15.3 (/w upgrades = 23.9)

INFANTRY_MEDIUM = 14.1 (/w upgrades = 22.0)

INFANTRY_HIGH = 14.1 (/w upgrades = 22.0)

INFANTRY_HEAVY_MEDIUM = 14.1 (/w upgrades = 22.0)

INFANTRY_HEAVY_HIGH = 14.1 (/w upgrades = 22.0)

VEHICLE_LOW = 3.0 (/w upgrades = 4.5)
VEHICLE_MEDIUM = 3.0
VEHICLE_HIGH = 3.0

MONSTER_MEDIUM = 8.2 (/w upgrades = 12.9)

Dark Reaper's Reaper Cannon DPS:


INFANTRY_LOW = 15.8 (/w upgrades = 35.5)

INFANTRY_MEDIUM = 14.5 (/w upgrades = 32.7)

INFANTRY_HIGH = 14.5 (/w upgrades = 32.7)

INFANTRY_HEAVY_MEDIUM = 13.2 (/w upgrades = 29.9)

INFANTRY_HEAVY_HIGH = 8.5 (/w upgrades = 19.2)

VEHICLE_LOW = 8.5 (/w upgrades = 19.2)
VEHICLE_MEDIUM = 4.8 (/w upgrades = 10.9)
VEHICLE_HIGH = 2.4 (/w upgrades = 5.5)

MONSTER_MEDIUM = 8.5 (/w upgrades = 19.2)

Question
25th Apr 07, 5:02 AM
I already pointed out the DR exarch damage a few pages back. It seems really odd that the squad leader of a ranged specialist is doing less damage than the regular member...

Wraith_Lord
25th Apr 07, 2:13 PM
Must have missed your post on that, Question, sorry! Oh well, at least it has been mentioned again. Maybe this time it will get added to tha list? =D

Jaimas
25th Apr 07, 6:50 PM
I notice that the Leman Russ targetting Bug and Baneblade autocannon bug have yet to be instated into the list.

Similarly, the Autocannon HWT facing bug has yet to be placed on the list.

Considering that the LR targetting bug is fixable with LUA edits, as can, in theory, the Autocannon HWT, I feel both merit being called "no brainers."

The_Guardman
25th Apr 07, 8:06 PM
- Guardsmen and Kasrkin have ranged_attackrange set at 35 in their squad file. This limits their automatic firing to range 35, even though they have weapons that have longer range (grenade launchers). Fix: increase the value to 45.

I strongly suspect that a similar problm exist for other units (FW, HWT whit LC or AC, and other units that scale theire range). Can someone look deeply into it?

Scinadier
25th Apr 07, 10:58 PM
The map Titans Fall seems to be imbalanced. The bottom player is closer to the "middle" strategic points and the "middle" critical location.

Slow_Runner
25th Apr 07, 11:56 PM
Jaimas, what Autocannon targeting bug are you referring to? It was firing and targeting just fine when I tested it and posted (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2233908#post2233908) about it in this very thread. Leman Russ targeting bug, it's not shared by any of the other sponson tanks like LLR or the Predators? Can you fix it? What HWT facing bug? Can you fix it? I've told you before, this is not the bug submissions sub forum.

The_Guardman, HWTs aren't affected, that's for sure and I haven't seen it on FWs either. I'm not entirely sure if it's even on Guardsmen and Kasrkin anymore after testing it a little more. It is on the Defiler, that I am sure of, could be tied to multiple ranged weapon hardpoints on the same unit.

Maktaka
26th Apr 07, 1:33 AM
The Leman Russ targeting bug is unique to the LR. It is not shared by the LLR or either Pred. The problem is the sponson heavy bolters cannot fire inwards at all. Thus they cannot fire on the same target unless said target is at least as wide as the LR. Taking my cue from the SM and Chaos Predators, change the max_traverse_right for the left HB to 15 and the max_traverse_left for the right HB to -15.

The HWT AC facing bug is that the HWT reverses direction when the AC is built. This can be fixed by setting changing the muzzle z-value for this weapon in the unit file (ebps file) to 0.103 instead of -0.103.

Jaimas
26th Apr 07, 1:55 AM
Thanks, Maktaka.

Slow_Runner
26th Apr 07, 2:02 AM
Danke schön, added.

Wraith_Lord
26th Apr 07, 11:05 AM
I notice that the Necron Lord's Lightning Field bug has not been mentioned.

Bug: The charge limit for Lightning Field is not implemented in the game engine. Given enough time the Necron Lord can charge the ability high enough to instantly kill any unit in the game.

The idea would be to add a new variable field with a number that defines its charge limit. However, I am unsure as to whether or not this can be done using mod tools... Does anyone have an idea?

Maktaka
26th Apr 07, 11:35 AM
It came up pages ago (and has thus been buried). There is a value already (900 to be exact) in the lightning field extension of the Necron Lord. The game engine does not respect it. As the game engine cannot be modified by anyone other than Relic, it isn't listed because it cannot be fixed by the community.

On that subject, perhaps a list of unfixable-by-modding bugs should be included in the first post.

Hiroshi_Tea
26th Apr 07, 5:12 PM
this is either a typo in relicwiki
or some mistake in the game
but i thought ti was worth mentioning
broadside railgun numbers seem inconsistent
expecially the infantry low DPS which is at about 18.8
while the other infantry attacks are around 200 DPS

desocupado
26th Apr 07, 7:32 PM
I think it´s intentional, only builders use infantry low... I know we won´t be seeing broadside harasses, but...

Edit: Agree with Maktaka, it should be there, just with a big "NOT FIXABLE THROUGH MOD" by the side.

Carl
27th Apr 07, 10:09 AM
About the Autocannon, it is firing properly in 1.2. It's missing an animation and due to the long reload and crappy accuracy it's difficult to notice it actually hitting anything (because it doesn't hit much, but that's not due to a bug, only the reload and accuracy). I upped its accuracy to 1, removed the accuracy on the move penalty and disabled damage on all the other weapons (still firing, just not doing any damage) and the Autocannon was hitting at maximum range and minimum range and everything in between.


Just a quick question, did you actually tell it to attack something when you did that test, or did you simply leave it to attack on it's own as if I remember right the Autocannon firing issue is that it only fires when you actually tell the Baneblade to attack something.

Or has that already been fixed and I’ve missed it in the fix list, (didn't they say they where going to fix all the Baneblade oddball stuff for DC anyway :rolleyes: ).

Question
27th Apr 07, 11:07 AM
About the "attack range" of the IG GLs....im fairly sure it applies to a lot of other stuff too......the range on the baneblade main canon is 60 and i can guarantee you it does NOT fire at max range.

Easy way to do this is to put a squad near the max range of the BB, the BB will only fire the lascanons at the squad, even though they are range 50 and any unit that the BB can hit with its lascanons is also in range of the main canon and demolition canon...but they wont fire unless you specifically order them to.

Also the baneblade heavy bolters and lascanons have different DPS values for the left/right ones.

The same goes for the leman russ heavy bolter sponsons. Different values.

Landraider and Predator lascanon sponsons also have different DPS values.

Harlequin riveblade does 0 damage to daemon_high.

Carl
27th Apr 07, 11:20 AM
Also the attack range bug affect Baneblades, GM, Karskin, the LR, i'll add more as I notice them.

Slow_Runner
27th Apr 07, 12:50 PM
Guys, honestly, check the first post before posting. I can't stress this enough.

Differing Baneblade heavy bolter and lascannon damages are already in, so is Harlequin riverblade against monster_high and Leman Russ Heavy bolters as well as Land raider and Predator sponson damage discrepencies (that's pretty much everything you posted, Question). The thread is tricky enough to keep up with as it is without people double posting old things all the time.

The ranged_attack_range is not a weapon specific value, it's a value on a unit so it can't be a reason to why one weapon on a unit isn't firing if others are.

Carl
27th Apr 07, 1:32 PM
@Slow_Runner: I was just adding to the list of things effected by the ranged attack range bug and helping point out that A) theirs a furthar issue with the Lasscannon sponsons of Preds/LR's as they have diffrent range and (B) the fix for the DPS is more than just a few penetration values.

You catually have to play with the accurracy and base damage values first so they match before you can get the DPS the same, (assuming you don't want to change the reload rate).

Ohh, and I can confirm Questions point about the Baneblade Battlecannon and the attack range, hell, even the Lasscannons felt like they where firing sooner. If anything it might become a balance issue if you alter it just because of how far you can stand off and pound stuff.

Maktaka
27th Apr 07, 2:36 PM
The fix for differing DPS values IS just fixes to the penetration values. The weapons have all the other same stats (reload, range, accuracy, base damage), it's just the piercing values against certain armor types are different.

Also, the Lascannons on the Landraider are different from the Predator because they're different units. Within each unit's weapon set, the ranges on their sponson weaponry match.

ImmortalChaos
27th Apr 07, 2:54 PM
C/SM and eldar builders:
They have no morale breaking voice, so they just use the ones of the C/SMs guardians. I'm not sure if any have been recorded in which case it can't really be fixed, but its always annoying to find yourself looking through all your squads to see which one broke when it was only a builder.

Maktaka
27th Apr 07, 3:21 PM
Regarding the base damage on the Lascannons:

Base damage on left Baneblade lascannon: 237-289. Taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs. Base damage on right Baneblade lascannon: 237-289. Taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs. Reload times for both are 3 s, ranges are both 50, accuracy is both 80%.

But then the piercing values for right and left vs commander: 25/50, vs monster high 60.6/83.6, etc.

Regarding the range on the weapons:
Max range for Predator left lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 35
Max range for Predator right lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 35
Max range for Landraider left lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 40
Max range for Landraider right lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 40

Octopus Rex
27th Apr 07, 6:13 PM
@Carl: just delete your post if you want us to ignore it.

As for ranged_attack_range: sure the BB might wander over till it is within that attack range when you click on a target, but if you just leave it with an unassigned target on hold ground stance it will shoot at that range at anything it can hit (60 for main cannon). It's only when you target something that it will wander over.

Danimoth02
27th Apr 07, 7:13 PM
Actually no, the Baneblade won't attack things with it's main cannon that are within 40-60 units away from it if you just leave it on stand ground. It won't "wander away" either if you tell it to attack something at that range because it's already within range. You can even check this problem by using attack ground with the Baneblade and see that units are well within it's range and yet it doesn't shoot unless you tell it to. Like someone said before, it's lascannons (range 50) always start shooting way before the main battle cannon (range 60).

Question
27th Apr 07, 7:53 PM
Shas'ui photon greandes do not disrupt units that are hit. So basically they only do damage....and we know how much "damage" greandes actually do....

Hiroshi_Tea
27th Apr 07, 8:00 PM
it's a low damage gernade with massive area of effect
about on par with an SM frag
the lack of disruption is a bit sad
but since it does 85 damage to a radius of 10
i thenk it's more of a balance thing
as to why there's no disruption

Question
27th Apr 07, 8:24 PM
If it works like all other greandes do then it only does 85 damage if its one squad member.

Maktaka
27th Apr 07, 8:32 PM
Question, that's not how area of effect works. Area of effect does full damage to every single unit in the area of effect, whether there are 1 or 100.

The grenade damage sucks, but their aoe is huge. At a radius of 10, that's larger than an Earthshaker round.

Shujaa
28th Apr 07, 3:04 AM
About the Baneblade not firing its main cannon unless you target a unit - a workaround is to set it to aggressive stance (the red one), and then it does actively use its cannon without needing to be told. Not ideal, but it's also not likely to wander off after the enemy without you noticing it :D

Carl
28th Apr 07, 3:21 AM
Image of how the BB performs with the attack range increased to 60. Was on hold ground stance.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6170/relic00000cd8.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00000cd8.jpg)

I then moved it to the bottom of the ramp and with an assasin doing spotting it fired on the base at the top demolishing the HQ with just the battlecannon.

The Map is Biffys peril and I didn't give a single attack order.

weirwood
28th Apr 07, 6:36 AM
IMPORTANT INFO, (I hope): GM Grenade luanchers get double damage from ONE modifer with weapons spec. However Karskin have TWO modifiers for their weapons spec, each giving 1.5 times the damage, so Karskin get and effective 2.25 times the GL damage.

Eh? Where did you find that? All I see is one modifier for min damage, and one for max damage, same as all other weapons that benefit from the specialisation research.

Carl
28th Apr 07, 6:55 AM
Let me check again, maybe i'm going blind...

Never mind, wrong again, an error on my part this time for sure, i just missed the min damage/max damage part. For some reason I must have thought i'd allready had the Karskin min damage modifer furthar up the modifiers list.

Sorry about that, as I noted earlier i'm going through the files fixing this stuff for personol use, and I just happened to spot this and looked at it a bit wrong and it threw me.

Question
28th Apr 07, 8:51 AM
Maktaka, im fairly sure greandes are special in that they do less damage with more squad members. Otherwise 3 greandes would wipe out an entire squad of GM instantly.

Slow_Runner
28th Apr 07, 9:08 AM
IG Grenade launchers? They do kill guardsmen (depending on upgrades) in three hits, but with a radius of 2.5 you're obviously not going to hit the entire squad, more like 2-3 models. "I'm fairly sure" doesn't really cut it here.

Carl
28th Apr 07, 12:06 PM
IG Grenade launchers?

:noway: Tau Photon grenades. Question was rmarking how strange it was for them to do no disruption, and it was then pointed out that they had a very large AOE and then question pointed out that that could easily result in 3 grenades destroy a single full squad of GM outright, (and people talk about necron IMBA LOL :jester: ).

Slow_Runner
28th Apr 07, 3:08 PM
Oh, well I labbed it once back in 1.11 and 3-4 Photon grenades do wipe out entire Guardsmen squads.

Carl
28th Apr 07, 3:18 PM
Ahh thanks for that, I weas gonna check the files but got tied up by my ongoing IG S campaign. That Baneblade is soooo good once you edit the attack range, you can park it up at near maximum range and pound the hell out of masses of enemy as they try to close with you before even the lascannons open up.


:spartaaa:



Should have danced to avoid being tied up :slow:.

The_Guardman
29th Apr 07, 4:10 AM
"Let it burn" does ZERO morale damage. DHO!

Carl
29th Apr 07, 4:15 AM
Another fairly oddball one, not sure if it qualifies due to the fact that it's got so many potentiol balance issues attatched, (depending on how good you think the Leman Russ is), the Leman Russ battlecannon has an AOE of 5 but has the AOE info set up as point rather than circle so it dosen't actually do an AOE damage style attack.

It's easy enough to fix, just go into the baneblade battlecannon entry, (or the entry of any other AOE weapon, I chose that because it so similar), and copy the good line of code from their over to the Leman Russ entry.


Bad Line:


GameData["area_effect"]["area_effect_information"]["area_type"] = Reference([[type_areaeffect\tp_area_effect_point.lua]])


Good Line:


GameData["area_effect"]["area_effect_information"]["area_type"] = Reference([[type_areaeffect\tp_area_effect_circle.lua]])

philgreg
29th Apr 07, 5:15 AM
Would balance issues of maps come into this? Im talking about the thread whereby certain points are quicker to cap for one player than the other - its an easy enough fix to move an SP slightly

PheonixIgnite
1st May 07, 2:31 PM
Another fairly oddball one, not sure if it qualifies due to the fact that it's got so many potentiol balance issues attatched, (depending on how good you think the Leman Russ is), the Leman Russ battlecannon has an AOE of 5 but has the AOE info set up as point rather than circle so it dosen't actually do an AOE damage style attack.

It's easy enough to fix, just go into the baneblade battlecannon entry, (or the entry of any other AOE weapon, I chose that because it so similar), and copy the good line of code from their over to the Leman Russ entry.
It is possible that this is intentional since the LR is more of an AV unit. Note that making this change without also decreasing the damage values would make the LR quite a bit more effective than the LLR and the FP. I think that this change is more of a balance issue.

Carl
1st May 07, 2:56 PM
It is possible that this is intentional since the LR is more of an AV unit. Note that making this change without also decreasing the damage values would make the LR quite a bit more effective than the LLR and the FP. I think that this change is more of a balance issue.

Let me clarify a bit more.

The Leman Russ should have an AoE effect on its main gun according to the file simply because it has an AoE value listed and Point area type weapons don't need one. On the other hand without the area type being set to Circle theirs no point to the AoE value.

In other words it's not a balance suggestion at all. Although it DOES have potential for making the Leman Russ IMBA. The reason it's a bug is because either the leman Russ was supposed to have an AoE in which case my suggested fix needs to be applied. Or it was not intended to have an AoE in which case the AoE value needs setting to 0.0 to ensure it can't be thought to be a bug.

The fixing of the bug however DOES have the possibility of becoming a balance issue due to the power up it gives.



My personal opinion is that back when WA was released the Leman Russ WAS supposed to have an AoE and that it's lack was a bug. Since then however, they've rebalanced the main gun around the bug, (hence the high rate of fire). Either way they need to decide what they're going to do and have the files clearly state this intention.

Hiroshi_Tea
1st May 07, 2:59 PM
the LR actually does pretty mediocre damage
splash shouldn't add to much extra
however, it would be nice if it had some disruption capability
bassilisks are ass because of their 3 pop
and hard cap
really puts a damper of the IG artillery abilities

JohnnyBoy
1st May 07, 9:13 PM
Problem

Give the IG Thermo Plasma Generator AND the Tactica Building Building_Med armour.

Reason

All the other races have Building_Med or Higher with all their buildings, with the exceptions of basic Plasma generators and LP structures (which are commonly Building_Low). C'mon man, fair is fair.

Maktaka
1st May 07, 9:36 PM
That's the VERY FIRST THING under the IG section of the list.

JohnnyBoy
1st May 07, 9:47 PM
HAHA, you are right. But YOU JUST COULDN'T RESIST........

Funny that the Guard is the main focus, so many no-brainers.....I wanna rip a strip off someone...

Sentinel accuracy/damage is still shakey even in groups....its Vehicle_High damage needs a good boost. 24 DPS is an outright travesty, before OR after the Killa Kan outrage. Make it 100 DPS, keep the sentinel relevant during our late game ubers. Let them be all-round AV.

Wraith_Lord
1st May 07, 11:06 PM
From the "[DC 1.2] IG Heroes" thread:

Jumper vehicles that have been immobilized by Curse of the Machine Spirit can still use their Jump ability to escape.

The tooltip says that it is supposed to immobilize vehicles now, but clearly this is not "immobilizing" jumper vehicles from flying away. Just so you know, the list of jumping vehicles includes:

Space Marine Land Speeder

Eldar Falcon Grav Tank
Eldar Vyper
Eldar Fire Prism

Necron Restored Monolith (uses Teleport; counts as a vehicle)

Carl
2nd May 07, 3:54 AM
Crisis Suit Missile Pods are bugged, 2 of their damage values, (vehical low and Vehical Med), have values over 100% penetration. It also has very low Building low penetration but high Building Med/Building High damage. It looks like the Building Low and Building High values are switched round.

Another one is the Commanders Flamer. It has a range of 15, but only an AoE of 5. If i'm understanding how Flamer type AoE works the range and AoE should match. Otherwise the range is limited by the AoE.

Eithier drop the range to 5 or increase the AoE to 15.

Slow_Runner
2nd May 07, 4:43 AM
Leman Russ cannon AoE is a balance issue, as is Sentinel damage against vehicle_high.

Added the Crisis Suit missile pod.

TC flamer needs AoE 15? Huh? You're gonna have to explain how you think flamers work because I'm not quite following you there.

The disabling jumps... it's an idea of course, but none of the other stun effects disable jumps either so changing it just for CotMS would be quite inconsistent.

EDIT: Found some campaign stuff in a bug report (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2292671#post2292671):
guard_research_command_squad_size does not apply a health bonus to any of the Dark Crusade Campaign command squad units, except for the commander unit himself (which is a hefty 500 health bonus) but I would like to know if it is suppose to apply to the campaign command squad units also.

For clarity sakes in explaining these next two bugs:
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp is the reference for the Honor Guard Kasrkin squad
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sergeantt_advance_sp is the reference for the Command Squad Kasrkin sergeant

guard_research_kasrkin_armor mistankly applies to the command squad kasrkin sergeant (kasrkin_sergeant_advance_sp, instead of kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp)

guard_research_kasrkin_speed does not apply to the honor guard sergeant (the kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp listing), instead just leaving him slower than the rest of his squad after the upgrade.

Wargear upgrades (which are listed under research):

guard_wargear_upgrade_08_greaves_research - this one is a doozy:

modifier4 list: guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier5 list: guard_leaders_priest_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_priest_command_squad_advance_sp
AND has a probability of applying: 1.250000 and list a multiplier bonus of 1.000000. These values need to be swapped.
modifier6 list: guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier7 was so close but has listed "mod_apply_to_entity" instead of "mod_apply_to_entity_type"

guard_wargear_upgrade_09_sash_research

modifier03 has "mod_apply_to_squad" instead of "mod_apply_to_squad_type"

Carl
2nd May 07, 6:13 AM
TC flamer needs AoE 15? Huh? You're gonna have to explain how you think flamers work because I'm not quite following you there.


Allright, this is my understanding:

Range on Pie type AoE weapons simply determines the distance away the enemy must be before the weapon will start firing.

All Pie type weapons have their impact point, (for lack of a better term), centered on the barrel, so if it has an AoE of 5 the damage effect will extend 5 units from the end of the barrel.

The Arc values determine how many degrees to the left and right of the firing direction the AoE spreads.

Here's a pic that might help ypu understand my understanding:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4953/flamered9.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flamered9.jpg)

Thus as i understand it, if the AoE is less that the range then it will only affect things within AoE distance of the weilder, not things within the mas range.

SoulessCorpse
2nd May 07, 7:37 AM
With this giant list of issues you would think relic could atleast do a hot fix to take care of atleast some of these things. I mean all the solutions are practicly written out for them :( I dont think there is going to be a patch in the near future.

Maktaka
2nd May 07, 7:38 AM
The pie slice aoe isn't like the normal circle aoe, it's not centered on the impact point. You can shoot at targets at the maximum range of the flamers without the target being in the aoe. The aoe is just a nice bonus for targets that get too close. You can test this out with SM tacbolter flamers. Aoe range of 10, weapon range of 25. The range difference is pretty noticeable when they're in use; you can see targets getting hit at the max range of 25.

Also, a unit can't be hit twice if it's already the weapon target and it's in the aoe. That doesn't mean it's not worth getting close to your target though. If you stick close, you can keep hitting the target even if you end up shooting at something else.

weirwood
2nd May 07, 1:20 PM
guard_research_kasrkin_armor mistankly applies to the command squad kasrkin sergeant (kasrkin_sergeant_advance_sp, instead of kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp)

I don't know about the honor guard kasrkin sergeants, but I'm 100% certain kasrkin bodyguards don't get a hp upgrade by the armor research.

Wraith_Lord
3rd May 07, 12:36 AM
Add to list:



Techpriest Enginseer's Power Axe does 0 morale damage in CC.



Assassin's Exitus Pistol (melee weapon) does 0 morale damage in CC.



Kasrkin Sergeant's Power Sword: armor piercing values are set to 0 for VEHICLE_HIGH, BUILDING_HIGH, and DAEMON_HIGH armor, making them do no damage to those types.



Kasrkin Sergeant's Power Sword does 0 morale damage in CC.



Guardsmen Sergeant's Power Sword: armor piercing values are set to 0 for VEHICLE_HIGH, BUILDING_HIGH, and DAEMON_HIGH armor, making them do no damage to those types.



Sanctioned Psycher's Strip Soul ability does 0 morale damage to the target, despite doing 300 morale damage to the caster!



Hellhound's Let it Burn ability does 0 morale damage (mentioned before, but was never added).



Command Squad General's Strafing Run ability has no minimum damage value.



Singleplayer: General Lucas Alexander's Master-Crafted Power Claws and Power Fists wargear both also do 0 morale damage in CC.

Also, it is my direct observation that the Imperial Guard contain FAR MORE bugs than any other race in the game.

Slow_Runner
3rd May 07, 2:00 AM
Added the morale damages for TP, Assassin, LIB, Strip Soul and Kasrkin sergeant sword, missing penetration values for Kasr and Guardmsen sergeants and the SP wargear things.

Strafing Run, are there armor types that don't take damage as a result of missing minimum damage value? If not, it's not really much of an issue. I'm gonna tinker with it at some point, but after a quick look, it doesn't seem to have AP values against buildings but still did damage to a HQ so I'm guessing the default armor piercing of 100 is kicking in there.

philgreg
3rd May 07, 5:38 AM
This thread is getting noticed. I screenshotted Relic's Stefan having a look in, for those who don't believe me; so maybe these will be fixed next patch.

Ferryman
3rd May 07, 6:04 AM
The demon pit shows it can bunker 5 squads, but it can only bunker obliterators.

Imbrium
3rd May 07, 7:27 AM
I'm obsessive compulise, here some Tau bugs:

Research:
tau_devour under armour piercing has:
100 ap vs building_low
100 ap vs building_med
50 ap vs type_armor/tp_armor.lua - I'm sure this is suppose to be building_high

tau_photon_grenade has two listings of:

90 ap vs type_armor/tp_armor.lua
Photon grenades has no default armor piercing value, and making the only reason this ability does damage is becasue of it's minimum damge value, so this seems non-sensical, because this ability pretty much only does it minumum damage value whenever it is used. Balance concern here.

Weapons - Shooting

tau_burst_cannon_devilfish has no armour_piercing values, doing 1.4 DPS to all units.

tau_flamer_commander list itself as having 350 armour piercing value vs infantry_heavy_high. infantry_heavy_medium has a value of 45, so I think 35 is the intended value here.

tau_missile_pod_crisis_suit has armour piercing values of:

140 armour piercing v vehicle_low
120 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
55 armour piercing v vehicle_high, so I guess change low and medium to 100.

tau_rail_gun_hammer_head_gunship has armour piercing values of:

160 armour piercing v vehicle_low
300 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
95 armour piercingv vehicle_high, so I guess change low and medium to 100.

Octopus Rex
3rd May 07, 7:34 AM
Guys, does an armour penetration of more than 100 still only do the damage of armour pen 100?

I always treated the armour penetration as some kind of percentage, so surely 160% would be more than 100%, and thus shouldn't be reduced as that would hideously effect the balance?

Obviously if 160 == 100 then bug fix away!!

Imbrium
3rd May 07, 7:38 AM
Now that I'm done with finals I'm using my free time to mod DoW. I reported that block of IG bugs, and the Tau above. I'm going through all the races Abilities/addons/entity/researches/weapons looking for any flaws like what I have submitted for the Tau and IG.

Tonights I'm gonna go through the Space Marines, because at a glance, there are some pretty odd values placed around.



I'm listing armour_piercing values > 100 as a bug because I' see other people doing so, is this actually a problem?

I guess I could just test it myself, but is there something about it because I don't know.

I've got a mod with almost all the IG bug fixes done, I need to do some more intensive testing to ensure certains fixes are working. I'll release that I guess sometime.

It's hard to gauge certain bugfixes working (like speed bonus's for squads) Eventually I want to make a mod with all the bugs listed here and other places fixed.


Guys, does an armour penetration of more than 100 still only do the damage of armour pen 100?

I always treated the armour penetration as some kind of percentage, so surely 160% would be more than 100%, and thus shouldn't be reduced as that would hideously effect the balance?

Obviously if 160 == 100 then bug fix away!!

I would like to know. I'm only reporting ap values >100 becuase others are. Because I'm OCD, I'm changing them to 100 to be safe.

I plan on testing it later tonight. I'll do something simple like having frags do 100 damage with 900 AP. If it does increase over 100%, then that would certainly slaughter any squad :P

The_Guardman
3rd May 07, 7:44 AM
I'm listing armour_piercing values > 100 as a bug because I' see other people doing so, is this actually a problem?

I think no. Btw, it is very strange that a well-known hardcap was not taken into account by the DC team when setting AP values. (HammerHead 300% AP vs. vehicle_medium? It's damn near istant-kill! :wtf2: )

Anyway a mod showing what happen when all of those things are implemented togheter in a single mod. You can save/ spare lot of work to the Patch Team by doing it, and give them a starting point to think how to balance better the game, IMHO. So good work, and let us know when you have finish :) Remember to post it into the Mod section of the forum.


The demon pit shows it can bunker 5 squads, but it can only bunker obliterators.
And rhino cannot transport terminators. This is not a bug/nobrainer, is a feature. What is wrong, however, is that you have only one Obliterator unit, making 5 spaces just cunfusing.
Fix:
Reduce the bunkering space to 1.

Imbrium
3rd May 07, 7:52 AM
With my IG all bugfixed mod I've notice a pretty decent difference already. Nothing major or game altering, but enough to show a little IMO.

philgreg
3rd May 07, 8:50 AM
I will be willing to playtest this mod when its done, have you got a thread in "mods in progress"