[DC 1.2]FIRE ON THE MOVE

[DoomBringer]

Most of us dc players have all noticed the effects of the new fire on the move penalty [FOTMP]. For example when a squad of marines is chasing a squad of necron warriers they do 15% accuracy on the move, they do no damage in reality. But if warrier squad
is chasing a marine squad 80% accuracy. Weapons like plasma are also effected, and there main advantage was that they could FOTM, this has really made melee troops shine out now because by trying to dance you do little damage.

The balance issue is that, it has effected so much, the game play is different some weapons have become usless, there seems to be double standards, for example necrons do 80% most other troops do 15%,hell hounds do 15%, dreadnoughts aparently do 100% FOTM.

I think there should be a global system so we all have an idea what does what on the move, not this one rule for one unit and another rule for another.This is just an idea but no doubt you well comment?

Make all infantry units and weapon upgrade do 25 to 30% FOTM
Maybe necron warriers should do abit more due to there slow movement?

Make all tank vehicles do 40 to 60% FOTM

Make all flamer weapons do 70 to 80% FOTM
Example hellhound 15%, how a massive ball of flame can be inaccurate is beyond me.

Walker Units 50% FOTM

Remember these are just ideas, but like i say i think that FOTM should be more consistant.

[ImmortalChaos]

Compared to WA, FoTM is extremely consistant... Back then just about everything had its own FoTM value. In DC they simply cranked everything (bar flamers and necrons) to 10%, then 15%- a pretty crummy choice IMO. I would rather that infantry classes got their FoTM value depending on their rank-

All vehicles, flamers: 100%
All commanders: 80%
T3 elites: 60%
Most units: 20%
(numbers relative to their standaing accuracy, rather than DC's absolute 15% value. This makes it so that units with lower standing accuracy lose as much DPS as units with higher values.)

This is pretty much a 5% buff from now, so you should start seeing units actually take damage when fleaing an enemy, and then vehicles can actually hit things every now and then. Elites gain further worthyness of their cap because they can hit on the move, and commanders are gifted even more.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

special exceptions do exist
such as some necron stuff
and the hellhound

edit: i wonder if buildings have FotM

[Blakey85]

lol hiroshi..

[GRIM Ripper]

meh, ive actually noticed the fotm 5% increase, and i still agree with the low fotm as it is... it makes games much more interesting and longer when you can actually retreat. in DOW it was not uncommon to lose your entire army as soon as you turned to retreat, in which case it was gg from there. some call this "tactics" i just call it lame... i want good back and forth action and with the current fotm that actually happens. and i actually think although it would be realistic to buff vehicle fotm, it would make them pretty imbalanced.

as for the original post, for the most part it is actually very consistent. 90% of units have a flat out 15% acc while moving. there are exceptions of course like flamers (which also have a blanket 70% on the move), hellhounds, dread ACs, etc... but you can pretty much expect it to be 15%.

[Jaimas]

A bigger issue with FOTM is that because of it, FOF still has no drawbacks.

[dreddnott]

15% isn't much, but it is 50% better than 1.1 - firing on the move was pretty broken in the first version of Dark Crusade.

Also worth noting that units with lower stationary accuracy (Orks, Imperial Guard) lose far less DPS while firing on the move than units with a high stationary accuracy.

Going from hitting 50% of the time to 15% isn't nearly as bad as going from hitting 90% of the time to only 15%. The unit with 50% accuracy will do only 33% as much damage as it does while stationary, but the unit with 90% accuracy will only do 6% as much damage as it did before.

Most weapons that can fire on the move and are not area-of-effect have an accuracy of 60%-70% but there are definitely some outliers on either end. This definitely makes checking out baseline accuracy values in the Dawn of War Player's Guide worthwhile!

[DukeRustfield]

People don't understand how it was. In DoW, when you retreated, as stated, you died. It didn't mean you died right away, they would just chase you...all the way across the map. Until you were dead. So if there was a point when you suddenly realized you were outgunned, unless you could jump/teleport, you sat there and tried to do at least a little dmg until you died. Because it was absolutely pointless to run.

[peturabo]

Imho Fotm is fine as it currently is.

[Pellucid]

HELL no on the T3 elites getting bonus FOTM. Some races (IG, Tau, Necrons) don't get good T3 elite shooty units and that would nerf the hell out of them.

[blackpaladin05]

@Pellucid: Agreed. I can only shudder when I think what a squad of Oblits/Assault-Cannon Termies will do while advancing with extra FotM. Worse yet, 2 squads of Flash Gitz with bonus accuracy. Would Warp Spiders count as elites? Breaking them would be the only way to beat them in that case.

Although I kinda disagree about the IG because Kasrkins have a lot of firepower too w/ Priest and executed GM...

[Pellucid]

Yeah, but there's only ONE Kasrkin squad and it's outgunned by any other one T3 elite. Its speed with good FOTM sure would be scary at that point, though.

[Da_Fish]

I much prefer FoTM now, as previously pulling back your troops to an LP2 had a good chance of losing you the game. Now I can at least decide to fight in other places aside from planting my units in one position and hoping for the best. I like ImmortalChaos' suggestion as I liked commanders doing decent damage on the move. :)

[desocupado]

I don´t think fotm works the way drednott said

"Going from hitting 50% of the time to 15% isn't nearly as bad as going from hitting 90% of the time to only 15%. The unit with 50% accuracy will do only 33% as much damage as it does while stationary, but the unit with 90% accuracy will only do 6% as much damage as it did before."

I think it works like this. The bolter have 60% accuracy, on the move, you have 15% of 60%, it´s 9% on the move, not 15%.

The Assault Terminators for example, they have 65% accuracy, 15% of their original value is 0,65x0,15=0,0975 wich means 9,75% accuracy on the move.

So all units under the 15% rule receive the same penalty, no matter their original accuracy

[ImmortalChaos]

The current 15% value is absolute, so dreddnott is right. They dont go to 15% of their original value; they just go to 15% accuracy


HELL no on the T3 elites getting bonus FOTM. Some races (IG, Tau, Necrons) don't get good T3 elite shooty units and that would nerf the hell out of them.
Ok, kasrkin absolutely OWN, with a preist and execute they fair better that other T3 elites. While they do require more work and take longer to get out, they REALLY pump out DPS when used to potential. You other examples dont really work either-
Tau get amazing shooty elites (and kroot hounds have feral leap), as they can still baserape with flamers, and their standard loadout still does a lot of dps to infantry at range.
Pariahs actually do really good ranged damage in comparison to their melee damage. They would benifit because units dancing them would still take damage. Same deal goes for ogryns.

The only races I could see it causing problems in are the ones that get multiple ranged elites- Orks, Eldar. Perhaps they could settle with a lower value (40%?), but IMO elites should benefit from better FoTM.

I have (finnaly) decided that old FoTM wasnt the best, however at 15% I still feel like I can chase someone all day and do no damage- 20% is the point at which I feel that damage will actually start getting done, yet not so much that the retreating player cant make it to reinforcements/LP2s.

And as a bonus, units with high accuracy vs units with low accuracy becomes a fair deal.

[SubakuGaara]

NWs should suffer more from fotm. 80 percent isn't enough. Somewhere between 40-60 percent is more reasonable.

[Faust]

i disagree, with NW short range and very slow speed 40% fotm to a unit that is forced into constantly moving due to oppponent's micro would be pretty much an inta-win to anyone facing necrons.

[SubakuGaara]

Wow... so necron will finally have to use more than NWs to win??? And insta win my foot. It takes time to deliver 8000 worth of damage to infantry med.

[cheeto101]

B-B-B bullcrap that Necrons dont need more then NW to win. Their speed and lack of range makes them the 2nd easiest unit in the game to dance behind FO.

Nerfing their FOTM even more would require some serious boosting to either wraiths, the lord, fo, or giving them their 1.1 range back. And no one wants to see that.