Off-Topic Hardware Question

[Monty Block]

Hi everyone,

We've come across a specific hardware issue on a number of our dev stations over the last six months here at Relic and I wanted to let you guys know about it...both to see if it was prevalent amongst home computers and to let you know how to fix it if you find it on your machine. So here it is. :)

Most if not all of you will have AGP slots on your motherboard and naturally will have plugged your AGP video card into it (duh). However if you've never updated your motherboard drivers you may in fact be running your AGP video card in PCI mode (due to outdated drivers shipping with the board).

What this means is that you have a potentially huge bottleneck on your swanky, sexy-as-hell video card. It could be as much as 16 times slower than it would be in AGP mode. So...not something to take lightly!

Now that I've freaked you out, here's the simplest way we've found to check for the problem, and solve it if you've got it.

1. If you have an nVidia card, go to Control Panel/Display Options/Settings/Advanced and click on the GeForce tab. Once there you'll see AGP 2X, 4X, 8X, or AGP (PCI Mode). If you're in AGP mode, all is well. You can find this information in your ATI card settings as well, but location varies from card to card.

2. If you see PCI Mode (or any mention of PCI, as older drivers may have different ways of displaying the info), you'll need to update your motherboard driver. The reason this is such a prevalent problem is because most people don't think to check their motherboard manufacturer for updated drivers. In fact, most people aren't sure what kind of motherboard they have.

3. To check your motherboard driver status, visit http://www.aida32.hu/aida32.php and download and install aida32. Once it's running, click on motherboard, and then Chipset. You should be able to see what your chipset is as well as a link to where new drivers can be downloaded.

4. Visit that link, download the latest drivers, install, and reboot. You should now be running in AGP mode. If not, try installing again as these things can sometimes be finicky.

5. Once you've confirmed that you're running in AGP mode, you should notice that games are running faster...maybe a LOT faster! Or it could be that there's no noticeable increase in the games you're currently playing. What we've found on our dev systems is that updating the motherboard to enable AGP gave some machines a more than 20 frames per second increase in Homeworld 2.

Homeworld 2 will automatically detect if you're running in PCI mode (for nVidia cards only as ATI isn't as easy to detect), but I wanted to give you a heads up now. Oh, and as always update to the latest ATI and nVidia drivers whenever they come out. nVidia's 45.23 release is the one you want when HW2 comes out, and ATI's next driver release should be even better than the current iteration for Homeworld 2 goodness.

Anyway, looking forward to your replies. I hope this helps some of you out!

-geoff

[Mobius(HG)]

Wow, that's good to know. Thanx monty! :salute:

[Mr Tyranny]

Yeah.. That happened to me once when I was building a new rig.. Forgot to install the MoBo drivers and was wondering why my new GF4 and XP2000+ was not doing any better than my old Duron 700 and GF2MX.. Was quite the hair puller for a few hours.. :Slap:

[Soulblighter]

definately some much needed info before the game gets released.

thread locked.

hahahhahahah

i mean docked.

i am a moron.

sorry.

[Kroggy]

I'll remember that when I finish building my new machine, thnx Geoff

- Ragnarok:viking:

p.s. mods: could you check Soulblighter, I think there might be something wrong with him...

[Supernova]

Er... um what if u have a dell computer that came without an agp slot, and since its all proprietary (or atleast i think so...) it can't be upgraded... i've got a GFX5200 PCI its about the best i could find for pci cards....was wondering if anyone knew of a better one or if they knew if i could upgrade the dell dimention 2300 mobo (kinda po'd at how dell is skimping, anything until the demension 43XX doesn't have an agp slot, and they shipped pc133 sdram with the thing... thats cheap! ack ranting sorry....)

[Kushan_Pilot]

Aw heck, I can't believe I overlooked that...

Now I'm stuck diggin through a laggy Asus MB website...

Thanks for the heads up!

[ÜberJumper]

For reference:

http://members.shaw.ca/uberjumper/images/nvcontrolpanel.jpg

[Mr-e-Man]

I installed the new drivers for my MSI K7N2 mobo and my AIW 9700pro is still listed as being in PCI slot 2. funky.

[Kushan_Pilot]

:wtf: :madashel: :madashel: :flamer: :flamer: :censored: :grrr: :grumble: :mad:

Ever feel like that all at the same time? It feels....invigorating...

Okay, I'm losing it. ASUS has got to have the most useless idiotic update system I've ever come across. Their built-in update software doesn't appear to be supported...on a 5-month-old MB, get that. Step 2, their listing is completely incoherent. Step 3, the update information is not in tune with what the program actually looks like. Step 4, I know I clicked the right link, I downloaded the right one, but noooooo, it doesn't recognize it when you try to update it, HAHA!!

Bring on the white coat!!

[Monty Block]

If it's any consolation (or if you want to start a support group) we had to install the same driver and reboot the machine three times in a row before it would kick in.

Seriously funky action to say the least....

[Edit] This was our worst offending system...most of them worked just fine the first time around!

[Dawn Falcon]

So..where am I looking for a R9500Pro? (I know it's running in AGP mode on mine because of other benchmarks, but for everyone else...)

[Kushan_Pilot]

I'm panicking now...I installed a new driver that by pure coincidence was just put up on the ASUS site...I succesfully installed it.

I am now the proud owner of an AMD 2200 XP 1.8 Gig......that is running at 1.35 Gig and known as a "1600". I know what I have...my system doesn't...anymore.

This all started looking easy, but this situation has me without any foreseeable solutions.

<Insert Edit> After all that the AGP still doesn't work.

Uh, Help?

[JamesX]

LOL, so all that time Relic spent trying to make the graphics run faster was for naught?? :) does this mean they'll lower the system reqs? :D

[ÜberJumper]

Kushan:

Did you install a new BIOS or Motherboard drivers (for Windows)?

If you installed a new bios (which according to Monty, it's not a bios you need to update), then you might just have to reset the bios to its defaults (note what your settings are before you do reset to defaults, especially the hard drive settings) to get the CPU recongized again.

(Note: any advice given on these forums for technical matters is given freely and without warranty. Use at your own risk).

[PenDragon]

most new motherboards shouldnt have this problem, but its just safer for you to check.

does this thread in anyway mean the game is about to go gold.....

[ToastedLightly]

did you cahnge your FSB? I just did some quick math, and it appease your FSB is now set at 100. at a 13.5 multiplyer. If you can, reset the CMOS jumper (consult manual), and then boot. Press delete to enter BIOS, and then check you Front Side Bus (FSB). If that is set at 100, try to change it to 133, then save and exit. That should solve your problem. Also, what board are you using? If you need more help, i can probaly give more. This is just what I had happen to me. (I overclock alot, and I mess with jumpers, FSB, multi and vCore alot)

Just remeber: I am 15 and am by no means a Professional. My advice SHOULD not hurt (unless you don't do the procedure right). I take no responsiblity on what you do with this information I have provided and I take no responsibility for damage (God I love legal Tidbits).

[Dr Bombcrater]

Originally posted by Kushan_Pilot
I am now the proud owner of an AMD 2200 XP 1.8 Gig......that is running at 1.35 Gig and known as a "1600". I know what I have...my system doesn't...anymore.
Kushan_Pilot, your motherboard's FSB has defaulted back to running at 100MHz insted of the required 133MHz:

13.5 * 133.3MHz = 1800MHz
13.5 * 100.0MHz = 1350MHz

so you need to to change the FSB. On most ASUS boards there is an option in the BIOS to set the processor speed which automatically sets the right FSB speed, so you just need to change it from 1350MHz to 1800MHz.

Failing that, look for an option marked 'FSB' or 'Bus Clock'. It should be at 100,200 or 'default'. Change it to 133 or 266.

The AGP drivers Monty was talking about are not the same as the new BIOS you seem to have flashed in. You get these drivers from VIA or SIS (depending on what chipset your motherboard uses) and they are installed under Windows.

# Dr B

[Lone]

You get these drivers from VIA or SIS (depending on what chipset your motherboard uses) and they are installed under Windows.

If it's an nForce MB he will need to get the update drivers from Asus, NVIDIA chipsets.

If we knew what MB you have we could supply a link, Maybe. lol

[Kushan_Pilot]

Much thanks for the assistance. For the heck of it I went back after the post, and although the settings were as they should I just saved it, without changing anything, reset and it worked. Computers...

I updated the BIOS for a few different reasons. One for just a plain-old update, but the strongest reason was because that's all that was offered for download :hmm: . No patches, drivers, or otherwise could be found.

Specifications:

ASUS Socket A MB, "A7N8X", not the Deluxe or any other variant.

Processor is of course the AMD Athlon 2200+ XP @ 1.8 Gigs.

The video card: NVIDIA GeForce4 4600Ti 128MB DDR with the drivers mentioned in intitial post; the latest.

I had visited the site and unless they update further since, it only had BIOS updates for download. As far as BIOS settings can go, I have every AGP option I could find turned on. Even the little AGP LED on the MB said as much. Again thanks for the assistance.

[slimpinto]

UH...Is it just me or is anyone else scared about this little tid bit? I mean, being a gaming geek and PC hardware junkie that I am...I myself and anyone I know (who games too), would surely have noticed that issue A LONG TIME AGO! I mean, when I install new hardware the first thing I do is check for the latest drivers! I can't figure out how game engineers/programmers could have missed that? Who runs your IT department there? Man, fire them and hire me! All your systems would always be in tip top shape! :salute:

[ÜberJumper]

It's just you that's scared.

[slimpinto]

Just trying to be as off topic as I can be! You know me, I like to stir up emotions...but it's true...I'd run their LAN if they'd let me!

hehe (This is what I do for a living anyway!)

[Elif Tymes]

Gigabyte Mobos are excellent.

I got a Auto Update tool for mine that updates all my drivers, and my BIOS. So, yeah, I love my Gigabyte :-D
And it comes with a little app that lets you Overclock, while the PCs on :-D

[Kushan_Pilot]

Glorious success!!

There was one last set of drivers I had not updated on my entire PC. Within the bowels of my Motherboard info I have a series of nForce chips used for graphics enhancement and networking. After updating these drivers my AGP is now enabled, and I am feeling the warmth from my AGP 8X abilities!

Thanks a lot Relic, for pointing it out at all. There were comments over at Sierra that my pics were slightly sqewed(?), and so I simply figured it was that "Little difference between every version of Win XP". Great to have it working, quite likely for the first time ever.

Now to go play with it :sprint:

[Langy]

If it's in AGP mode, should it tell me how fast it is (like AGP 2x, AGP 4x, etc.)? I'm only getting an 'AGP' readout on the Bus area for my GeForce 3 Ti500.

Well, it hopefully won't hurt too much to upgrade my mobo drivers anyways, so...

[kozuka]

Never Mind I found an AGP driver for my chipset fixed the problem.

Peace
Kozuka

[0dyguru]

I'm O.K. But thanks for passing the good word brother Geoff.

[Atreides]

I know this may be getting a bit tedious but I am curious how my present system will do with HW2 (specifically the Multiplayer games)

I have a AMD 1 Ghz proc with a mobo, both have a fsb of 100
also I have a Gforce 2 card with the latest drivers that support Direct X 9 and run at AGP X4 and 640 pc2100 ddr ram.

Thanks.

[ÜberJumper]

Probably be able to run it at 800x600 with most options off.

[Atreides]

Thanks Uber.

Looks like I'll be buying my wife the 40 gallon aquarium she wanted so I can upgrade my comp.

[JamesX]

Well I doubt you need a new computer. Just a new kick a*@ video card :) like the new generation of DirectX 9.0 compatitable cards.

[Steppe]

Originally posted by Monty Block


Homeworld 2 will automatically detect if you're running in PCI mode (for nVidia cards only as ATI isn't as easy to detect), but I wanted to give you a heads up now. Oh, and as always update to the latest ATI and nVidia drivers whenever they come out. nVidia's 45.23 release is the one you want when HW2 comes out, and ATI's next driver release should be even better than the current iteration for Homeworld 2 goodness.



-geoff

And again Homeworld does something what other games didnt think off :D

[HIGHWINDER]

i have a question, ive always known that AMD athlonXP was better then PENT4 for gaming but i never understood why. can ne1 please fill me in.

[Afoxi]

Originally posted by HIGHWINDER
i have a question, ive always known that AMD athlonXP was better then PENT4 for gaming but i never understood why. can ne1 please fill me in.

I think the P4s are better for gaming. The AMDs are superior number crunchers though...

[HIGHWINDER]

I think

does any1 actually know why? cuz iam buying a new alienware. and i wanna know which is more suitible for my extreme gaming 3200 P4hyper threading, or amd athlon 3800XP(runs at 2.2ghz)

[Dr Bombcrater]

Originally posted by HIGHWINDER


does any1 actually know why? cuz iam buying a new alienware. and i wanna know which is more suitible for my extreme gaming 3200 P4hyper threading, or amd athlon 3800XP(runs at 2.2ghz)
There's little difference between the P4 and AthlonXP now as far as games are concerned. The Athlon, being cheaper, is usually the better choice.

[HIGHWINDER]

ok then iall go for the athlon.

[.:Steevo:.]

Originally posted by Supernova
Er... um what if u have a dell computer that came without an agp slot, and since its all proprietary (or atleast i think so...) it can't be upgraded... i've got a GFX5200 PCI its about the best i could find for pci cards....was wondering if anyone knew of a better one or if they knew if i could upgrade the dell dimention 2300 mobo (kinda po'd at how dell is skimping, anything until the demension 43XX doesn't have an agp slot, and they shipped pc133 sdram with the thing... thats cheap! ack ranting sorry....)

Well, if the case is ATX, then rip it out and put in a new 1. or just get a new case with ps for 100 bucks and a new mobo w/ AGP to fit in it.


Originally posted by Kushan_Pilot
I'm panicking now...I installed a new driver that by pure coincidence was just put up on the ASUS site...I succesfully installed it.

I am now the proud owner of an AMD 2200 XP 1.8 Gig......that is running at 1.35 Gig and known as a "1600". I know what I have...my system doesn't...anymore.

This all started looking easy, but this situation has me without any foreseeable solutions.

<Insert Edit> After all that the AGP still doesn't work.

Uh, Help?

Get a new Mobo. They aren't very expensive. go with an XFX board. they have good driver support.

[ToasterOven]

The AGP issue was precisely what I was experiencing. I recently upgraded to an nForce2 rig and was amazed at how bad HW2 was stuttering. Updated the mobo drivers and things run beautifully now.

Thanks, Monty.

[boolybooly]

There's always one isnt there !?

I was full of zeal and heeded your advice and went looking for mobo drivers for my nForce2 Epox 8RDA+.

I found tham at motherboardsFAQ.com and the nice man there said "ALWAYS UPDATE YOUR MOBO DRIVERS" and I thought yess I willl.

Unbeknownst to me the latest drivers for nForce2 from nVidia compatible with WinMe are a dogs breakfast and are causing pain and anguish across the globe.

Tralala.

It was the warning on boot telling me I had no VGA driver and a host of hardware queries which really gave the game away but I had my suspicions confirmed when my desktop turned into a grey block and system showed hundreds of exclamation marks.

LOL and to make it worse when I tried to uninstall in safe mode the procedure corrupted itself somehow and totally fouled my OS making it impossible (and I tried pretty hard) to reverse the driver failure.

Fortunately I have Symantec Ghost which is ace and have now sorted myself a nice fresh installation.

There are two morals to the story

1 if it ain't broke dont fix it
2 if you need to fix it google the fix first and find out what people are saying about it, for safety's sake ;).


:hmm: