Dawn Of Skirmish DC v2.30 AI Mod is now LIVE!!

[thudmeizer]

Dawn Of Skirmish *DARK CRUSADE EXPANSION ONLY* V2.3 RELEASE and Acknowledgements (April 30, 2007)

Main Download Link (Fast!) (http://ei8ht.net/wh40k_ftp/hangar-8/2.3_AI/Dawn_Of_Skirmish_v2.30_DC_AI_Mod_Install.exe)
Secondary Link (http://www.filefactory.com/file/dab0bf/)

Meet the Cast:
==============

Thudo (Thudmeizer)..>> Team Lead/Coder/Gfx/Bonafied Cheerleader
ArkhanTheBlack......>> Lead Coder/Scripter
LarkinVB............>> Lead Coder/Scripter/Beta Tester
Corsix..............>> Coder
Inquisitor..........>> Beta Tester
Zenoth..............>> Beta Tester
Malkor..............>> Beta Tester
Troubadour..........>> Beta Tester
ThetaOrion..........>> Beta Tester
FinalDeath..........>> Beta Tester
QuietDeath..........>> Beta Tester
JBird...............>> Beta Tester
Slash...............>> Beta Tester


Introduction
============

Prepare for a more enhanced Dawn Of War - Dark Crusade skirmish experience!

This project started after the release of Dawn Of War with the intent to bring to the global DoW community a more intense and satisfying AI opponent on the field of war. We hope you will agree that has been achieved with the understanding more is to be done in the future. Our work continues to evolve and in the coming months will make current efforts pale in comparison. However, you have to start somewhere and hot damn what a jumpstart!

Its been a slice from start to, well, continuing! We're so looking forward to enhancing the AI even further in the coming months!


A Personal Thanks
=================

At this time I would like to personally thank all the participating members of the team:

ArkhanTheBlack, LarkinVB, Excedrin, and Corsix, as well as our beta testers: Inquisitor, Malkor, Zenoth, FinalDeath, Troubadour, Slash, JBird, and QuietDeath (all who keep our work "in-perspective" and "on-track" with our ultimate goals of achieving the most competitive DoW AI opponent we can create!).

Its through your dedication, patience, and technical expertise that allowed the work to commence and prosper. Without you fellers, there'd be a pittence of work compared to the greatness this project has become. We've come a long way and do sincerely hope to continue our expert correspondance into the future of the product.

CutterShane (Original idea and implementation of the Heroes mod)

Alex Gnome (Original idea and implementation of the Camera mod)


Disclaimer
==========

This is to acknowledge that we take no personal responsibility for any hardware damage or data corruption brought forth by the use or installation of this DoW modification. As used, this modification works "as is" and has been thoroughly tested and should not cause any major problems. In the event, however, that something serious does occur, it is up to the user(s) of their computer(s) to make appropriate backups before any attempt is made to install the following DoW modification. Use at your own risk.


Whats In The Package?
====================

o Main Installation Package containing the Enhanced DoW AI scripts (contains ONLY those .ai files that our team altered)
o Dawn Of Skirmish DC V2.3 dowai.txt (what your reading)
o Doc folder containing information how to add your own faction to the AI project.


Installation
============

Piece of Cake! Run the executable and it will extract to where your <installed Dawn Of War folder> is.

Once installed, run the newly placed shortcut on your desktop "DOW Skirmish AI V2.3" or from StartMenu/Programs/"Dawn Of War Skirmish AI Mod". You will know if the modification is running when on the top-left section of the Dawn Of War Main Menu it will display: Dawn Of Skirmish V2.3.

To uninstall this modification, go back to StartMenu/Programs/"DOW Skirmish AI Mod" and choose "Remove Dawn Of Skirmish AI Mod" to remove the modification from Dawn Of War.

**NOTE**

This version of the AI mod will only work with the Dark Crusade Expansion.


What's new in Dawn of Skirmish DC AI 2.3?
=========================================

o Various balancing adjustments to DC patch 1.2
o IG bunkering and transport code now work without 'AI SCAR support' (Thanks to Relic for adding the AI functions!)
o AI SCAR support replaced by AI Donations (Don't activate if you experience lag or sync errors)
o Save game reload bug fixed (No more fatal AI errors after reloading)
o Fixed some Heroes bugs which allowed cheating or resulted in SCAR errors after a save game reload
o Improved AI vs stealth troops
o Additional AI improvements (like always)
o Added extended camera zoom modes to allow to zoom out with the mouse wheel (Optional installation feature)


Extended camera zoom modes
==========================
Optional installation feature which adds two files camera_high.lua and camera_low.lua to the Dowai_mod\Data folder.
If you dislike them you can deselect them during installation or just delete them if you already installed them.
The default view is almost the same like vanilla therefore you shouldn't notice much difference until you start
to zoom in or out. Thanks to Alex Gnome for the original discovery of the camera settings.


AI Highspeed Setting
====================
Option set in the game mode panel at the setup of a game.

People who experience heavy lag and sync problems in multiplayer should try this option.
Some AI calculations are simplified or skipped to increase performance.
But beware, the AI could be slightly weaker because of that.


Heroes Special
==============
Option set in the game mode panel at the setup of a game.
Activates the Heroes Special mod which is a rework of CutterShanes exceptional Heroes mod, that specializes
only on the unit experience system. Have a look at the Heroes Special readme file for further information.
There's also a Heroes Special modding document which describes the inclusion and modification of Heroes Special
for other mods.


AI Donation System
==================
Option set in the game mode panel at the setup of a game.

- All races donate requisition if they own more than 800

- All races demand requisition if they own less than 200

- All races donate power if they own more than 600 (Necrons: more than 1100)

- All races demand power if they own less than 200 (Necrons: less than 400)


AI Config Panel
===============

There are several options you can change for each difficulty level to adjust the AI behaviour to you liking.

1.) Dancing
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dancing is the ability to run away with ranged units if they are attacked in melee.
There are three possible settings:
a) Off => Dancing is not used at all
b) Standard => The AI is restricted to only dance with one unit at a time
c) Godlike => The AI will dance with several units at a time if necessary

2.) Attack Delay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This forces the AI to wait with an attack until a specif time has passed.
You can adjust this time in two minute steps from 0 to 20 minutes.

3.) Tech Speed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With an increased teching speed, the AI will spend its resources more on teching than on building troops.
With a decreased teching speed, the AI will spend its resources more on building troops than on teching.

4.) Teching Handicap
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A handicap will slow down the teching of an AI. It will also hoard more ressources
instead of spending it immediately for units or buildings.
You can give allies an handicap or opponents. If you give allies a handicap, all
AI's allied with a human player are affected. If you give opponents a handicap, all
AI's not allied with a human player are affected. You can use this behaviour for
example to weaken AI opponents if you don't feel good enough to face them at full
strength. Or you want the exact opposite, a real challenge, and weaken your own
allies, so you have to do more yourselve.

5.) Allow alternative strategies
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All AI's have 4 different strategies:

- A solid allround strategy
- A special ranged strategy
- A special melee strategy
- A vehicle fast tech strategy

If alternative strategies are activated, the AIs will choose one of those strategies at the start by
random, though the chances of each strategy are influenced by opponent and map size. If deactivated,
the AI will always choose the solid allround strategy.

6.) Early Harassing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This allows commanders and combat troops to make an attack at an extremly early state to
avoid opposing scout capturing strategic points. If successfull, this can severly cripple
the opponents ressource income and decide the game at a very early state. On the other side,
harassing can also lead to a quick sacrifice of troops, which gives the opponent an advantage.
Harassing is only possible in the first 4 minutes.

7.) Multiple Troop Production Buildings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The AI normally builds more troop production buildings if it has excess ressources. This allows
often an outproducing of the opponenr who can't replace its losses fast enough.
Bear in mind that the AI might still build more troop production because of other reasons. IG for
example need to build them to increase their squad and support caps. In this case those buildings
are normally only built a bit later. This can also hurt the balance between the races since some
of them are affected more and others less of it.

8.) Allow Relic units
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If deactivated, the AI won't build any Relic units like the Baneblade from the Imperial Guard or the Chaos
Bloodthirster.


Script Changes (from the original game to what we have today)
==============
Available upon request.


Comments?
=========
Visit us at our home base: http://forums.revora.net/index.php?showforum=478
You can also drop by the official Relicforums here: http://forums.relicnews.com/

Cheers DoWers and prepare for massive attack! :eek: :eek:

[Isen]

Hurrah!

Thank you Thud!!

[Dabada]

Yes!!

Thank you so much for all of the work that you guys do. This mod really ramps up the fun of this game. I daresay I've been spoiled by it.

[horusheretic]

thanks the dark gods you made me a hyper!

that dl took 3-4 seconds christ.

[Cheesenium]

YES!!!!! FINALLY,NO MORE ARTIFICIAL IDIOTS!!!!!

sorry,cant help it. :P

Thanks for the great mod.

[CommodoreKitty]

Downloading now, w00t! I love you guys!

[ThetaOrion]

Now our lives as we know them can begin once again and get back to normal!

Exciting all around!

[jeddy00]

I wonder just HOW close to online players this is....
well I guess the original AI was more like the less educated of players

before I return to my ponderingm, I thank you.

[silvtown]

Here Here!

[Knighter]

Excellent work :salute:

[podbelski]

Just tried it - sly ass that AI 8-)

Thanks guys!!!!!

[The Shadow]

Will this work in LAN games?

[LarkinVB]

Will this work in LAN games?


Yes, I think so.

[hangar-8]

Again, HUGE thanks guys, the hard work is most definately appreciated :D

[Gorb]

IT IS HERE!

Many thanks to the AI team and their army of little helpers ;) - I now have an AI to play against again :D

[Menown]

I have been waiting for this for so long, awesome work guys.

[JVikeing]

Works great! I have one question though (I'm pretty sure I know the answer I just wanted to check)

Is there any innate difference between "Insane" and "Hard" computer difficulty settings? (ignoring starting resources and assuming the settings on the AI control panel are the same for both)

[cptwhistlepants]

Awsome job you guys, as always. I love the new zoom. I also noticed the ai using teleport and infiltrate much better now.

I hate to sound like a suckup, but if it wasn't for this mod, I wouln't really have anything to play. Its awsome at lan parties. Thank you:Hail:

[thudmeizer]

@JVikeing - Only the resource bonus. Hard is the best play mode as its 1:1 with the human player

@cptwhistlepants - thanks for the complements! Thanks everyone!

[Kurgen]

I love the AI mod, thanks.
Quick Question, for some reason my Grid keys will not map when I play with the mod, but works on regular DC. Am I missing something?

[thudmeizer]

@Kurgen - check your \Profiles\Profile1 folder where you installed Dark Crusade. See the different folders related to whats installed? Each folder has its own KEYDEFAULTS.LUA so move the one from the \dxp2 folder in that location to \dowai in that same area. You can view LUA, btw, as a text file and manually fiddle with it as well.

[Kurgen]

Thanks Thud worked like a charm :p
Great Mod, you guys rock

[runab0ut]

Great work guys!

[iamaplayer]

Hey Thud bro, good job! When i'm done modeling tonight, i will enjoy trying this new AI version, it makes the game a lot more exciting :D
Keep up the fantastic work!

[thudmeizer]

Our team appreciates all the kudos! Every release has alot of work behind it both from the coders and testers' perspective. Couldn't do it without a team's committment to ensuring quality.

[Octopus Rex]

Thanks again Skirmish team. Awesome job.

[Drakonis]

AWESOME! MORE HOURS OF FUN! Thanks AI Team

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Fantastic. The DC vanilla AI is so brain-dead it's unbelievable. This mod makes SP skirmish fun again. Kudos.

Edit: Does anyone know if the mod manager works fully now? i.e. does the running of a mod online no longer cause sync errors?

[Skullcap]

Mod manager works properly since 1.2.

On the A.I...

Heroes mode + skirmish A.I. = brutal combination.

I'd suggest not doing a 4vs4 with orks as the enemy team with both those settings on :tomb:

Tis something disturbing of seeing a warboss slug towards your well planned out fireline glowing like a fairy ontop of a christmas tree to then unleash brutal slaughter. :Loco:

kudos to you thud and co. You made a A.I. so brutally efficient its comparable to strike fear into the human players.

[thudmeizer]

@Ifitmovesnukeit - Yes mod manager was fixed with the DC 1.2 patch

@Everyone else - Appreciate the congrats!

[The_Guardman]

Dear Thudo and all the mod guys... Tank you :D It seem that the Sync Errors are gone! I and my friends can finally enjoy a lot of games without fear of the 3-minute death! And damn, the AI is scary... It show off the full power of some army (damn Tau) :D

[somweg]

Thanks for your work!

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Dammit, now I'm being shown just how UP the guard are... :p DC vanilla Necrons I can handle, but when fighting the solar pulse spamming resurrection orb abusing veil of darkness whoring Necron Lord and his huge, varied army in SkAI2.3, the save my ass plz execute button just no longer cuts it in 1.2.

Also, the Tau's susceptibility to vehicles really shows through as well.

Nevertheless, it's great to see the Eldar doing more than just spamming banshees and guardians.

[aerziel]

hmm does this mod affect the single player campaign for DC cause I can seem to open the single player campaign and start it with this mod unlike the previous versions of DOW

[NecronGuard]

This Crash Multiplayer if im playing multiplayer with original dark crusade but i have installed the AI mod

[LarkinVB]

If you select original DC with the ingame mod manager you should be able to play vanilla DC multiplayer without problems.

[s1_ONE]

Hey Tud, do u remember:


@s1_one.. wait til the actual 2.3 release. We're using replays from the pros to fashion the AI.

Can u expain me how affects the actual AI gameplay, compared to the 2.20 version?

[thudmeizer]

I think u need to play in order to experience the difference.. :D

[s1_ONE]

O.o kk let's see...

[anilkocman]

:Hail: Thank you guys :Hail: ALL HAIL THE SKIRMISH AI :Hail:

[Troubleshooter]

Q: Works with the campaign? Stronghold missions?

----

I love you guys... Cant wait to see the LOLIGSPECIALCCAIROUTINE.

[Hawillis]

Hmm, godlike dance mode........ well no damn computer gonna out dance me, game on bitch.

Thanks guys. I hope you enjoed creating this just as much as Im going to enjoy playing this :)

[Hiroshi_Tea]

oh, the computer dancing is absolutely wonderful
really gives a feel of multiplayer
you guys make DC so much better

[JVikeing]

Heh, the "godlike dancing" option makes it so the computer dances away from you as soon as you change stances on your units (ie. F2 --> F1, F7 --> F6).

[Melonplant]

I love this mod. Really great work.

[=|Dar|<$taR|=]

Thx really great mod but is it impossible to save repley ?

[LarkinVB]

I saved many replays.

EDit: At least with the beta in all AI battles.

[=|Dar|<$taR|=]

But when im wining game and want to save rep the option is unavilable ,in original DC i dont have any problems , well will try to reinstall...

[DarkSavant]

Very cool mod!



I do have one question though, now that I have installed it, I cannot use my custom banner. Can anyone point me in the right direction on getting this resolved?

[LarkinVB]

Yes. Select the mod and create your scheme again with the army painter.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

But when im wining game and want to save rep the option is unavilable ,in original DC i dont have any problems , well will try to reinstall...

That's probably because you saved and reloaded a game, doing that doesn't let you save a replay at all, even in vanilla DC.

[NFIH]

New definition of futility here, folks!

It's Oasis of Sharr with four enemy Necron AI on hard.

[Lor]

Yet another high quality release. A big thank you to the whole AI mod team!

*wanders off to get owned*

[Drakonis]

Reporting in..........
I still get the AI execution error when I save a skirmish game

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Reporting in..........
I still get the AI execution error when I save a skirmish game
We need the error message in the console. You get the console with strg + shift + ~. Alternatively, chack the AI_log.txt file in the DC folder directly after the error occured and post it.

Thanks for reporting...

[Rahtama]

I still get the stuttering problem..unplayable..it just stutters excessively bad..???

I tried as earlier suggested, setting "tech speed" in "AI Config settings" to max.. still no smooth play like vanilla DC. Any ideas/help appreciated. :wtf:

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I tried as earlier suggested, setting "tech speed" in "AI Config settings" to max.. still no smooth play like vanilla DC. Any ideas/help appreciated.
The tech speed option has nothing to do with the AI performance FPS wise. You have to select the option AI Highspeed in the game modes panel at the start of a skirmish game. Further, don't activate AI donations or even heroes.

[ThetaOrion]

If you get lots of stutter or lag, it sometimes helps to turn down your graphics options to medium and to turn the shadows OFF.

For me and my machine, there doesn't seem to be as much lag with 2.3, and I do have the graphics options set higher too.

I have everything set to high, except terrain detail was set to Medium and Persistent bodies is at LOW.

I had a CTD last night while playing the 2.3 AI Mod. I was SM and it crashed while I was simultaneously scrolling and trying to select an item and pressing a hotkey. It was over an hour into the game when I overloaded the thing. The next game went 1 hour 31 minutes of game clock time, without a crash -- tried not to do so many things all at once.

In the past DoW stuff, I had noticed that I got many more CTD's and lag and problems when shadows were HIGH. Well, guess what, I go in there just now, and shadows are set HIGH again, probably after my rerunning of the config tool after installing patch 1.2

I just now turned Shadows to OFF or NONE. I didn't really need to do that to kill lag or stutter as I really haven't had any serious lag with patch 1.2 or AI Mod 2.3, but hopefully with Shadows to NONE, I won't have any more CTD's with AI Mod 2.3 or anything else either. Shadows to NONE was essential, in order to lower the number of crashes that were associated with the WA Steel Legion mod, for example.

I didn't install the heroes thing with the 2.3 AI Mod, but I am using the Camera Mod. Patch 1.2 camera seemed to be closer to the units than I like or something is different there, or I have just gotten too used to Supreme Commander. But, now, with 2.3 AI Mod, I like being able to zoom the camera out a bit with the mouse wheel.

I don't use AI donations or anything else in the Win Conditions other than the game clock and the Annihilation win condition.

Anyway, in the past with DC 1.1, whenever I have wanted more responsiveness and less lag from DC, I have gone into the graphics options screen and started lowering the settings or turning things off. I play 8 player maps, so lag and stutter can be an issue. Playing a 2 player map is another way to kill the lag and stutter in DC, but I only like playing the 8 player and 6 player maps, so that don't help me much.

But, 2.3 AI Mod wasn't bad at all when it came to the lag issue compared to 2.0 or thereabouts, however, your mileage may vary, I suppose. Again, I have probably gotten used to Supreme Commander, a game that can be unbearably laggy on this machine of mine.

[the_hunger]

Excellent, excellent mod, guys. Really good to see the AI play smart, such as helping allies, building secondary bases, upgrading units, etc. I find no reason to play online with this mod, especially with the Heroes feature enabled. I appreciate your work.

[thudmeizer]

Team appreciates all the complements from the community. We work hard to ensure its as competitive as possible hence the 1-3 months between revision launches.

[Rahtama]

The tech speed option has nothing to do with the AI performance FPS wise. You have to select the option AI Highspeed in the game modes panel at the start of a skirmish game. Further, don't activate AI donations or even heroes.

No Change, still stutters bad, thanks anyhow. strange..

[JVikeing]

Would replays of matches vs the AI be of any value?

I really love this mod and would like to see it be improved upon even further! I am a rather decent AM player and can consistently beat the skirmish AI. It is interesting to see them go into some movement loops and glitches and I was wondering if the modders would be interested in seeing this for themselves.




*This post was not meant to be condescending or depreciating to the fabulous thumdeizer and his mod team in any way

[Troubleshooter]

One more time : Can the Mod replace the AI for the single player campaign?

[Lor]

To answer Trouble, the Skirmish AI seems to work on the campaign for me fella. Just start the mod as normal, the start a campaign same as usual. The honour guard rushes can be a bitch.

Hope that helps.

[sgb]

Possible bug?: Just played a 1v1 both random on hard difficulty (ended up Chaos vs Necron). I sent a early raptor squad to harass and saw...5 summoning cores being built. I've played against the Necron AI before and it didn't do this. Has this happened to any of your testers before? I'll post again with a replay if I get this to reoccur.

[ThetaOrion]

The five summoning cores was mentioned during testing, and it seemed to be a map specific thing that was hard to duplicate, but occassionally it surfaces. They never found the solution last I heard, and since it's only a few of the maps, I either don't think they pursued it or they actually discovered that it was a Relic thing that they couldn't fix anyway. I can't remember. But, I believe they are aware of it.

[thudmeizer]

@SGB - thats a VERY rare bug. We tried to reproduce it but could not although we had one tester able to. Very odd but yep that bug has been around since DC's release.

@JVikeing - You did not explain what skill, map, or factions you play? I'd like to know what core tactics you use to defeat our Advanced Logic as we have so very few who can even on HARD.

@Rahtama - this studdering problem was largely fixed. It was determined its both the user's hardware and OS settings. Recommend Defrag yer HDD, check you have no files in your \windows\temp and \documents and settings\<logged in user>\local settings\temp, what ver of .NET framework is on your system, check for mal/spyware running. Lots I can recommend to make your system run efficiently. I'm also a system builder by trade as well. :D

[ThetaOrion]

I run Crap Cleaner, a freeware program, almost every single day, and it really keeps the temp crap and spybot crap and all the crap out of the system.

Crap Cleaner also has an Issues option that is a Registry Cleaner and gets rid of all the dead wood from the registry.

That too is a very good tip. I usually run CrapCleaner before degragging, and clean out all but the most recent restore point before defragging.

Then the system seems to run well enough for me.

Of course, with DoW, I always had to tweak the Graphics Options in game for the best results.

And you might indeed want to experiment around with CMOS BIOS settings, at least trying Optimal and Default and see which if either runs with the least amount of stutter.

If you have Nvidia Graphics card, you can also go in to the Nvidia Control panel and select performance rather than quality. Some games run better with performance or high performance active.

In the past, uninstalling the Dawn of War, deleting the THQ subdirectory, and then reinstalling Dawn of War and DC would sometimes fix some of the DoW and WA bugs.

Try different maps. Sometimes the map makes all the difference. Some maps that have SCAR in them were known to stutter and lag a lot.

Update your motherboard drivers.

Millions of things to try. And, that's part of the problem -- millions of things to try.

Sometimes the best course with a game that doesn't like a particular computer is to install and run it on a different computer, if you have that option.

[Stormsong]

One more time : Can the Mod replace the AI for the single player campaign? Yes, absolutely. As far as I know this includes the stronghold missions, but since they are scripted they still tend to be easier than the regular territory skirmishes.

[Scar™]

Love the mod. Thanks so much for your work.

My question...If I have different settings in the AI Control Panel than my buddy does will it affect our online game? We play cooperative against the AI.

[JVikeing]

Erm, I can beat the AI using any race with any BO on any map. I have been using "hard" difficulty simply because after I switch all the AI options on* there is no difference between "hard" and "insane" sans starting resources.

I don't mean to sound elitist, and I'd further like to add I am in the "mid range" of online competitive play. There are many, many other individuals out there who can mirror and surpass my victories vs the AI.



*options I use include: dancing=godlike, attack delay=0 minutes, tech speed=fast, handicap=off, alternative strategies=on, early harassing=on, multiple troop production buildings=on, build relic units=on

[Sober]

AI will 'cheat' in the campaign skirmish maps, they will put up a fight regardless of territory province. It may say "they won't make vehicles" but be prepared for vehicles.

[LarkinVB]

Erm, I can beat the AI using any race with any BO on any map. I have been using "hard" difficulty simply because after I switch all the AI options on* there is no difference between "hard" and "insane" sans starting resources.

I don't mean to sound elitist, and I'd further like to add I am in the "mid range" of online competitive play. There are many, many other individuals out there who can mirror and surpass my victories vs the AI.

*options I use include: dancing=godlike, attack delay=0 minutes, tech speed=fast, handicap=off, alternative strategies=on, early harassing=on, multiple troop production buildings=on, build relic units=on


I'd like to see some replays. Please play the insane AI (it gets more resources during the game, not starting resources). Use the standard options for insane AI (techspeed=average) with the control panel. No heros mod enabled, no AI highspeed enabled, no AI donations enabled. No quickstart, normal resource rate etc ...

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Erm, I can beat the AI using any race with any BO on any map. I have been using "hard" difficulty simply because after I switch all the AI options on* there is no difference between "hard" and "insane" sans starting resources.

I don't mean to sound elitist, and I'd further like to add I am in the "mid range" of online competitive play. There are many, many other individuals out there who can mirror and surpass my victories vs the AI.
The AI has its limits and I don't expect it to win against an experienced player without some additional resource cheating.
We could do a more intelligent AI, but nobody would use it since it would cause horrible stuttering. The time frame for the AI calculations is very small if you want a smooth gameplay, and therefore we have to make some compromises between speed and AI effiency.

[NFIH]

JVikeing: Can you do me a favour and post a replay of you and some AI teammates (no Necs) fighting four Hard AI Necs on Oasis of Sharr (all other settings default, no heroes mod, etc.)? As for yourself, you can play as any race (ideally, SM) except Necs.

I want to see what the strategy is to winning here as I sure as hell can't do it. :)

thanks!

[Troubleshooter]

@JVikeing : I have been taking IG vs. Necrons (horrible MU, totally lopsided) and winning on hard. Its not easy, but its possible with a splash of strategy and knowing the respective limitations of the races involved.

I am constantly amazed by how quickly the necron AI get Destroyers though ;)

If IG can beat necron, I am guessing other MU's are equally winable. I will be testing out Chaos in the campaign soon though... set to hard. (thanx for the answers)

[Rahtama]

Thanks for tips but I keep my system in top shape for maximum performance so it's not that.

Maybe disabling Hyper-threading in BIOS will help, will try. Spewin.. as I really want to replace the vanilla AI. :P

[JVikeing]

Larkin- I can do that. I usually set the tech speed to "faster" because in online play, the majority of players go for a quick tech option (although T1 mass is still sometimes doable). I'll do an SM vs Necs (kill two birds with one stone) and a... SM vs orks?

NFIH- Watch the replay I post for Larkin first. I generally shy away from team games in general, particularly those where I rely upon AI allies. I may give it a shot though.

[JVikeing]

Replay #1 for Larkin-
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=148024
[DC v2.30 AI Mod]
SM(human) vs Necrons(computer) on Fata Morga

Notes: I input the exact specifications you suggested and rolled a 12 sided die (there are 12 automatch maps, I assigned each a numerical value) to select to find which map I would be playing. I chose Necrons because there is another request for anti-necron strategy elsewhere in this thread.

Synopsis: I do the standard GK rush against the Necron AI. It's increased resources allow for it to counter the attack much more capably than I expected. I bust out some footwork (running GKs in front of the NWs to keep them in the PI longer) and continue my BO to upgrade to the tri-hero assault. I get sloppy with some scouts but manage to stick the hurt on him in his base and deny his Greater Summoning Core. I pop out a tac squad with heavy weapons and lay down the hurt. After debating on whether or not to get a Machine Cult I opt for T3 and have the game on lock-down from then on.
runtime about 20 minutes

Pointers: I'm sure I made some micro mistakes in this game, try and ignore them, I'm only human after all. What turned out to be the most important building of the game (by far) was the armory. I got every single upgrade from it, which is rare. The AI made use of detectors with greater frequency than most Necs, so I was forced to delegate my scouts to mid-field harassment duty. One thing I forgot which would have really helped out a whole lot was Assault Marines. I should have used them a lot more, and for that matter, got them out 10 minutes earlier than I did.


Special thanks to Thudmeizer and his fabulous AI Mod team for making this skirmish one of the best I've had. Hats off!

[Deionarra]

Can you do me a favour and post a replay of you and some AI teammates (no Necs) fighting four Hard AI Necs on Oasis of Sharr (all other settings default, no heroes mod, etc.)? As for yourself, you can play as any race (ideally, SM) except Necs.

I want to see what the strategy is to winning here as I sure as hell can't do it.
I can beat the AI easily in 1v1 so I thought I'd give it a go. You're not kidding about it being hard, if all 4 of them get teched up then It seems almost impossible to beat them because the SM AIs aren't good enough compared to the Crons who are much more straightforward for an AI to use. No matter how many of them I kept killing they'd just send wave after wave of troops constantly and eventually overwhelm one of the SM AIs.

In order to win I basically had to tech to Dreadnoughts and try and take out one of their monoliths before they all get teched up. I then basically was able to fight one of them and the one I'd de-teched while my three allies delt with the other two (barely).

I've added the replay to the same thread that JV made.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=148024

[thudmeizer]

The sign of a classic PC RTS game is one where you DO NOT need to spam X unit of type in X tier to always win *cough* C&C3 *cough* >>GAG!!!!<<

DoW/WA/DC basically gives almost all units in every faction in every tier a use through the progression of the game. I like this although it is NOT perfect and, in this day and age of massively discriminating gamer, could never be made perfect. We all have an opinion now that we didn't offer back in the 80s and early-to-mid 90s. I sometimes have absolutely zero clue why game developers even bother to make games when even right after the first public beta the "basement opinionate kids" come out of the woodwork and start blasting the product.

Jeezzz.. anyway give a human "too much freedom to think" and ultimately they'll have problems with it. ;)

As for the DoW Advanced AI.. if we wanted too.. we could cause the AI to ALWAYS RUSH the enemy by spamming X units based on what the enemy faction is. Wouldn't that be creative? Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. no.

Best we can come up with due to doing this for free (but with shear passion in our hearts) and without the use of Skynet-certified AI processing units (circa gawd knows when in 10-30years) is a limit on the # of lines of AI code to simulate a quad-trillion+ synapsed brain.

I think if you are a serious DC player and love playing against the Advanced AI I'd be intrigued in hearing from you for a possible 2.4 AI.

However..

The Advanced AI has gone through now 25+ revisions since our first one in Jan-Feb'05 so we've pretty much super-optimized it to a point. Don't expect Skynet on the other side to own your flesh anytime soon with uber-brilliant strats. We work within the confines of human available time and the DoW technology.

[JVikeing]

Um, my post was in no way an attempt to point out the deficiencies and shortcomings of your AI mod thud... I think it's a great adaptation and when I ever do decide to play the computer, you can be sure I will be using enhanced AI.

I'm not at all concerned about any tactical limitations the AI presents (I think it's fantastic), I was simply curious to know if the mod team was interested in viewing any potential programming errors or infinite loops I encountered in my games. I posted my replay only at the request of another user (presumably to better his tactics) not to prove "I am better than you."

I apologize if my post was seen as offensive in any way.

[NFIH]

JVikeing: Unfortunately, I get a sync error about 50 seconds in when I try your replay.

Deionarra: Thanks for the replay! You handled it quite well. Teching to vehicles has been my typical strategy as well, but it's made little difference for me against Necs on that map. One thing I do differently from you is I don't use the landspeeders (and I use Hellfire dreads instead of regular ones because they come out faster and I need something heavy to hod back the Nec hordes). Would you say their use is key to victory?

Other things I noticed:

1. Terminators ineffective against Destroyers. I knew that already but it was sad to see the Termies getting mowed down by a single Destroyer. I use them as damage soaks, quite frankly, as they seem to suck as of the last two patches or so.

2. You took out much of the Nec base in your initial push but it seemed to make little difference to the Nec assault as they were back hammering your base within two minutes. They took back your forward LPs, too. But you still managed to come back. Again, good job.

3. You didn't appear to build bionics until 19 minutes in! What?

4. I thought you got away with one in that the Necs didn't use solar pulse on you--which I find to be a back breaker, especially in team games where two Lords will attack at once and shatter me with concurrent solar pulse blasts.

5. Did you feel that you got lucky in not having any of your allies fall early? I find that one of my teammates always falls early and then it's really just downhill from there. But all three survived! Was that because you kept the Necs busy with your big push into one of their bases?

6. Also, like another poster has said here (Theta? Or was it troubleshooter?), I find the Necs get Destroyers incredibly quickly, but in this game the one Nec you faced off against really didn't go that route, which was a bit odd. Was that because you took out the greater summoning core in time?

[JVikeing]

I synch-errorred Deionarra's replay at 1:08 so I can't make too many comments on the particulars... but!

It sounded like there was kind of a lucky break going on. No solar pulse? No fast tech'd destroyers? If only I was treated so nicely! :eek: I did notice she had resource sharing on, that would have made for a really nice bonus I'm sure (throw some unharasseable econ back at the 'crons!).



P.S.- Planescape: Torment is the best game ever.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

6. Also, like another poster has said here (Theta? Or was it troubleshooter?), I find the Necs get Destroyers incredibly quickly, but in this game the one Nec you faced off against really didn't go that route, which was a bit odd. Was that because you took out the greater summoning core in time?
Each Necron AI has a 20% chance to make a fast tech to destroyers in big maps. This is selected by chance at the start of a game. Therefore he was just lucky...

[NFIH]

JVikeing: You sync-errored Deion's replay? It worked for me, but your replay didn't. Could this be a clue as to what's causing the sync-error (I've saved my warnings log from that failed replay attempt, but don't have access to it at the moment so I can't post it)? You and I must have some different settings. Are you running any other mods?

I didn't know resource-sharing was on. Would that make it a lot easier to win?

Arkhan: I didn't know that about the fast-teching destroyers, but that explains a lot. When they also get cloaking, it gets ugly really fast. LOL!

[JVikeing]

No, not running any other mods.

While resource sharing doesn't make the actual combat or micro easier, it does allow for a significantly larger resource pool, yielding more buildings and units at a faster pace.

[LarkinVB]

Thanks for the replays. Sad enough I got a sync error from JVikeing at second 51.


I was simply curious to know if the mod team was interested in viewing any potential programming errors or infinite loops I encountered in my games. I posted my replay only at the request of another user (presumably to better his tactics) not to prove "I am better than you."


I did the request to have fun watching the AI and see if there are any big AI blunders. I'm still betatester for the AI team.

Watching the 4vs4 I think the SM AI did a decent job helping each other to stay in the game.

[fs_xyz]

Rr... asking about resource regeneration...
Seem at this mod, the resource regenerate way faster... and no decaying.
Is it just me or it is designed to be that way.

Anyway, nice AI, no more dead / give up AI. Will the Ork able to utilize free slugga ? They never use it...

[LarkinVB]

Resource generating and decay is the same as with vanilla AI. AI will get resource bonus at harder/insane and penalty at easy/standard. Hard is even. Decay is not changed. Orks will make good use free sluggas.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Will the Ork able to utilize free slugga ? They never use it...
They have a special Slugga spam routine. If they didn't use it, then they haven't built the necessary research yet.


General question:
Are the sync problems with replays a general problem? Is there anyone who doesn't get them? :Police:

[vecctor]

First off - thanks for the hard work on the AI. As always, I appreciate it.


The AI has its limits and I don't expect it to win against an experienced player without some additional resource cheating.
We could do a more intelligent AI, but nobody would use it since it would cause horrible stuttering. The time frame for the AI calculations is very small if you want a smooth gameplay, and therefore we have to make some compromises between speed and AI effiency.

This statement intrigued me. Would it be possible to make an "intensive" AI version for people with really poweful PCs? I'd like to see what it could do if it was opened up.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

This statement intrigued me. Would it be possible to make an "intensive" AI version for people with really poweful PCs? I'd like to see what it could do if it was opened up.
We're speaking here about a slow down of probably factor 10 or more. Even powerfull PC's would get problems with that. Further, at least I have neither the time nor the motivation to develop special AI versions for different computers.

[thudmeizer]

There is no point in making an ultra-advanced AI as only a VERY small tiny portion of any community would use it. 90% of the community for any PC RTS game would be turned off by such hard AI. Further, the game engine disallows us coding more advanced functions so alot of it is based on what Relic gives us. Until AI becomes as important in the eyes of game devs as is eye-candy and physics these days then AI will just take a backseat for now.

[NFIH]

Deionarra: Can you tell me exactly what settings you used in the replay game you posted? Because I've studied it closely and have tried to recreate it as closely as possible, but can't--among other things, there is simply no way to get two Dreads into a Nec base at the same time the way you did before the Necs have made their first attack on either my forward or main base. I can get one Dread in there and do some damage to the 'lith. The first Dread then dies and the second Dread is on its way, but by this time the second one is so badly outgunned that it can barely get into the base. This is despite getting everything built at about the same time you do, taking all the same LPs, building in the identical pattern, etc.

I've also tried feinting toward the middle the way you did to help out allies and draw the Necs there away from the forward side LPs, but the Necs still have more than enough forces remaining to repel any base attack and in fact have enough to attack the side LPs on either the east or west side anyway (I've also seen the four AIs just decide to roll straight down the map along their corridors, which is certain doom for my side given the how hideously overpowered the Necs are.). The forces they throw at you in your replay are simply not as large as the ones they throw at me. I'm just wondering if there's a gameplay setting that you used different from mine that could potentially make the difference. I'm otherwise totally stumped here.

EDIT: Finally managed to do it. Deionarra is right--on this map the only way to win is take out a Nec early. It means suiciding two Dreads, maybe three, but if you don't take out one Nec early like this, start over because it's already game over. The remaining three AI Necs still managed to take out one of my AI teammates anyway and even retook much of the map for some time. LOL, no other race AI in this mod is even close to being as brutal as the Necs.

[fs_xyz]

Just a question, what is the base calculation for unit lvl up ? ( exp gathering )
Damage dealt ? Price comparison ? ( Like how C&C unit lvl up... )
Also... is it spread between allies or owned units ?
Because on one ocation... suddenly my Tau Commander increase by 3 levels from lvl 1 when nearby ally destroy an HQ...

[Rabid Goat]

Great job! I tested it and I almost forgot I wasn't Auto-ing. I'm going to use this to help my noobier clan-mates learn the game for the LAN-tourneys when no skilled human opponents are available. (you won't believe how slow broadband can get in this country - you wouldn't want to connect to Gamespy from a LAN, trust me.)
It was good to see the AI use units and abilities one would never see the vanilla ai use. The tau missile barage took me by complete surprise and I nearly lost my whole infantry-based army. The horror!

[Drakonis]

Sorry took so long to report, was Busy IRL
And it was a Scar execution error

here's both the console and AI log
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Starting AI Think
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update strategies...
AI1001 00:02 BuildBaseStrategy: Update...
AI1001 00:02 DefendStrategy: Update...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update plans...
AI1001 00:02 ResourcePlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 CapturePlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 BuildBuildingPlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 BuildBuildingPlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 BuildBuildingPlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 BuildPlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 BuildPlan: Update...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update unit tactics...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update unit tactics...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update building tactics...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: Update unit tactics...
AI1001 00:02 CpuManager: End AI Think

and here's the Console screenie
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5284/scarerrorre2.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scarerrorre2.jpg)

[thudmeizer]

@Drakonis - what is TacScar.lua ? We don't use such a file so obviously you ran our mod with some other customization which is a no-no. You must run our mod without other configs especially a Scar one. Look for this Tacscar.lua in your DarkCrusade folder and remove it to somewhere else.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

And it was a Scar execution error
According to the console message, the SCAR error was caused in the file Tacs.scar in the Scar\Winconditions directory. The problem is that neither the AI mod nor the heroes special plugin has a SCAR file with this name. Therefore the error was caused by another mod you are using. I'd suggest that you report the error to the creators of this mod.

[Drakonis]

Ok, thanks guys, that Tacs file is from the heroes tactics

[etherdragn]

Hmm, thats an error I've not seen and I play with tactics and Skirmish heroes all the time. I just tried saving a game with Skirmish AI, Heroes, and Tactics/Heroes active and no crash here.

Be sure you have your tactics scar set to
tac_switch_RPG = false

in the customization options if you playing with the Heroes win condition. If you don't then you have two XP systems going which is bound to cause problems.

[Drakonis]

thanks ether, that fixed it. I apparently had it on true

[ImprovedFooFoo]

Can't play my old replays files on installing the mod. Any help? Tried the game without the AI mod but still no replay files

[NewZeta]

AI Config Panel
===============

There are several options you can change for each difficulty level to adjust the AI behaviour to you liking.

1.) Dancing
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dancing is the ability to run away with ranged units if they are attacked in melee.
There are three possible settings:
a) Off => Dancing is not used at all
b) Standard => The AI is restricted to only dance with one unit at a time
c) Godlike => The AI will dance with several units at a time if necessary

2.) Attack Delay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This forces the AI to wait with an attack until a specif time has passed.
You can adjust this time in two minute steps from 0 to 20 minutes.

3.) Tech Speed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With an increased teching speed, the AI will spend its resources more on teching than on building troops.
With a decreased teching speed, the AI will spend its resources more on building troops than on teching.

4.) Teching Handicap
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A handicap will slow down the teching of an AI. It will also hoard more ressources
instead of spending it immediately for units or buildings.
You can give allies an handicap or opponents. If you give allies a handicap, all
AI's allied with a human player are affected. If you give opponents a handicap, all
AI's not allied with a human player are affected. You can use this behaviour for
example to weaken AI opponents if you don't feel good enough to face them at full
strength. Or you want the exact opposite, a real challenge, and weaken your own
allies, so you have to do more yourselve.

5.) Allow alternative strategies
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All AI's have 4 different strategies:

- A solid allround strategy
- A special ranged strategy
- A special melee strategy
- A vehicle fast tech strategy

If alternative strategies are activated, the AIs will choose one of those strategies at the start by
random, though the chances of each strategy are influenced by opponent and map size. If deactivated,
the AI will always choose the solid allround strategy.

6.) Early Harassing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This allows commanders and combat troops to make an attack at an extremly early state to
avoid opposing scout capturing strategic points. If successfull, this can severly cripple
the opponents ressource income and decide the game at a very early state. On the other side,
harassing can also lead to a quick sacrifice of troops, which gives the opponent an advantage.
Harassing is only possible in the first 4 minutes.

7.) Multiple Troop Production Buildings
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The AI normally builds more troop production buildings if it has excess ressources. This allows
often an outproducing of the opponenr who can't replace its losses fast enough.
Bear in mind that the AI might still build more troop production because of other reasons. IG for
example need to build them to increase their squad and support caps. In this case those buildings
are normally only built a bit later. This can also hurt the balance between the races since some
of them are affected more and others less of it.

8.) Allow Relic units
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If deactivated, the AI won't build any Relic units like the Baneblade from the Imperial Guard or the Chaos
Bloodthirster.



Just wondering, how do you change this behavior to your likings? I've been trying but couldn't quite figure out how...
Is it in options? I didn't find it there..

[thudmeizer]

@NewZeta - the AI Control Panel is under START\PROGRAMS\THQ\Dawn of Skirmish AI.. You can also access it under \<dark crusade>\dowai_mod\data

[-=Magnus=-]

After installing this mod, I began syncing out of regular multiplayer games (I didn't have skirmish mod loaded, I was playing standard DC.) After I uninstalled the mod so I could play multiplayer games, my entire DC installation destabalized, requiring a complete un- and re- install. Anyone else encounter this?

[svensk]

I notice that the Necrons especially in team games work seamlessly as one cohesive army. I read earlier someone else experiencing this as well when two Necron lords work together and try and isolate one player. That's pure evil :ebil:

[thudmeizer]

Update for everyone:

Some issues with both IG Bunkering and AI Donations have been discovered as well as the Eldar not using Embolden (due to it not being researched) have been addressed. We are working towards a hotfix in the near future.

Otherwise, the 2.30 release is royally arse-whopping all who dare oppose it. :eek:

[Logga]

srry if this has been said but if I rush with a tech preist and melle their trops even if the did melee my unit would die but instead they run away allowing me to get in their base .Its funny wathing a full squad of sm runing from a tech preist around in circles^^.

[LarkinVB]

They love to dance !

[Evalescore]

how come everytime i win a amtch in skirmish, the save replay option doesnt appear? Its just greyed and doesnt let me click on it?? Id like to save the replays but im stumped!

[Tomac]

I love this AI! However, I've noticed that on larger maps that the Necrons will somtimes not build obelisks on all their capped SP's, sometimes going the entire game w/only 3 obelisks built, lots of float & many cappeds SP's.
Tomac

[thudmeizer]

@Tomac - map please? I want to test that.. AI was fixed so it would build on all capped strats. I want to reproduce this. Which map please?

[Evalescore]

can anyone tell me about my replay problem?

[ArkhanTheBlack]

can anyone tell me about my replay problem?
Hmm, I highly doubt this problem is caused by our mod. Are you sure it happens only if our mod is activated?

[Tomac]

@Tomac - map please? I want to test that.. AI was fixed so it would build on all capped strats. I want to reproduce this. Which map please?

Thud, the last time this happened was on Convergence (I sometimes like to set up large AIvAI games then sit back and watch the carnage). I've only seen it happen on larger maps and only w/Necrons but I'll lab some other large maps and see if I can reproduce it on specific maps. If I see it happen again would you like me to save the replay?
Tomac
ETA: Does the AI ever "switch sides" if that's enabled in the starting conditions?

[thudmeizer]

@Tomac - I must first stress.. Convergence is *NOT* an official Relic map. Before we can correct anything it MUST BE reproduceable on standard Relic maps like 8p_Penal Colony. And nope: AI does not backstab by changing sides in mid-flight. :P

[Tomac]

@Tomac - I must first stress.. Convergence is *NOT* an official Relic map. Before we can correct anything it MUST BE reproduceable on standard Relic maps like 8p_Penal Colony. And nope: AI does not backstab by changing sides in mid-flight. :P

Understood, Thud. Wasn't a complaint on my part, just something I thought I'd pass on. I have seen Necron AI repeatedly ignore (ie: not even capture, much less cap) the Relic on it's side of the map on Animus Arroyo. I'll lab some other large Relic maps and report any unusual results. Thx!...
Tomac

[thudmeizer]

Thanks Tomac! Also, I don't know that map you just said. Try official Relic maps that came with DarkCrusade and its upgrades like 1.2.

[Tomac]

Thanks Tomac! Also, I don't know that map you just said. Try official Relic maps that came with DarkCrusade and its upgrades like 1.2.

You're welcome. Sorry, Thud, I thought Animus Arroyo was an official Relic map. Will keep you posted...
Tomac

[Evalescore]

excuse me but I am sure, I jsut played many games with it and it offers me the option to save replay once every many many games, a fix to this problem would be much appreciated because i love this mod

is there something you have to do in game to allow for a replay to happen? is there an option??

I just tried viewing a replay i had saved and i got a sync error......

[sgb]

I'm surprised some people are finding the Necron AI strong, I've actually found it one of the weakest. It doesn't really seem to know what to do if the initial Necron Warrior mass isn't working. It doesn't build enough heavy destroyers later on, which you absolute need as Immortals die too quickly to T3-4 units.

Every other race is pretty solid, except IG. They seem to spend too much on guardsmen and not enough on teching up. They also make too many commissars early on. You really only need one for execute.

[thudmeizer]

@sgb - I totally beg to differ > I see normally on average 3 H.Destroyers and 3 Destroyers in Tier4. In Tier2, Destroyers start showing up. Remember, Destoyers and H.Destroyers are VERY expensive hence the reason they are mixed in rather than spammed. Don't expect ANY AI out there in PC land to adapt so quickly if you keep on using your pro human skills to wear it down.

As for IG.. we were told by our testers to use more Commissars due to their bonus they give when attached to squads so... As for Teching up: blame it on Relic making the Guard the weakest of the lot. I can't even win with em. Their Tier1 is a joke. Tier2 barely cuts it.

[s1_ONE]

Hey thud, i have some problems with the latest AI mod. :mute:

Especially with this map
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=150038

but also with thargorum, often (i play on insane) 1 of my allies dont do anything noticeable, and i'm forced to fight 2 vs 3 with the res bonus of the cpu.... :bricks:

is it normal? 'cuz in the 2.20 that doesn't happened...

[thudmeizer]

Thats a custom map so blame the map creator for creating some funky areas. AI can only adapt so much. Thargorum isn't a custom map as far as I remember but one of its startpoints is likely fubar'ed. This can quickly be looked at to see if this is the case.

[Brutal_Mauling]

For those of us playing DoW via Linux and Cedega(i might be the only one) .

Heres a little tutorial:

To install the mod in Cedega just create a shortcut to the setup.exe then hit Play. Change the target directory to your DoW one and it will install.

It will create a shortcut on the desktop but thats useless since we are on Linux :P

To play the mod in Cedega create another shortcut
Fill in the file path for DarkCrusade.exe

under the command line options field put:
-modname dowai

see pic:
http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc555/th_42183_Screenshot_122_555lo.jpg (http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=42183_Screenshot_122_555lo.jpg)

When you click Play it should now load DoW with the mod.

Thanks for the mod btw :Hail:

[s1_ONE]

@ thud

i'm the creator.... :agree:

...and i don't understand what is wrong with the map...

[thudmeizer]

There is nothing wrong except the startpoint. Think about it: for the AI to start in a specific region of the map results in rather "wonky behaviour" must mean the cause is the startpoint. Case in point: look at startpoint #3 on map 4p_MountainTrail. See how close the point is to the trees. That causes the vanilla AI massive problems but our AI works fine there. Determine what startpoint on your map is a problem and it should be easy to rectify.

[Brutal_Mauling]

War log:

Standard - me(ork) v marines(emerald river)
Went for my usual bo:slugga slugga mek shoota slugga. Grab local points send mek,slugga and shoota to grab computers points.

First time i saw the computer use flamers still crushed him pretty easily.

Hard - me(ork) v marines(emerald river)
Usual build got map control. Computer put up a better fight and hit tier 2 before me. Asoon as i saw a dread i built an extra banner for tier 2 and got some bustaz.
Shootaz, Nobz + Manz + 2*tank bustaz took him out.

Harder - me(ork) v random(necron)(blood river)
Plan was to capture both relics quick then spam BS.
My map control looked good but Necron army hit me when i took the critical in the centre. Got completely crushed didnt make a scratch on there shiny metal a$$ didnt even reach BS for my shooters.


Harder - me(ork) v marines(emerald river)

Used standard bo but decided to try rush and grab the computers crit with a mek,slugga and shooter.

Whilst my main army was on the comps side of the map squads of marines turned up on my side and started decapping as i hadnt LPed. My stray cappers were no match. Rushed my army back marines dancing all over the place. Too much pressure and not enough resources to get more than one squad with BS. Overpowered.

Conclusion
Better A.I but there seems to be a large difficulty jump between hard and harder. Dominator-Dominated :(

[thudmeizer]

@B_M - the only difference between HARD and HARDER Skill is..

Harder skill get a slight resource bonus. Hard is true 1:1. If you are a pro player than you won't remotely get your jollies until you play HARDER and up.

[Brutal_Mauling]

Hmm ill have a few more games on harder, might just of been the bad strategy that got me owned so much.

[Zorodius]

When playing through DC's campaign with this mod active, there seems to be a glitch where the movies (racial intro movie, "waving banner" movie after killing a race, and the final racial victory movie) won't play.

[Stormsong]

You need to copy the movie folder from ..\THQ\Dawn of War - Dark Crusade\DXP2\Movies to the ..\Dowai_mod folder, then they'll play while running the mod.

[XBloodyMessx]

Once again another brilliant release from the ai skirmish guys. Keep up the good work!

[sgb]

@sgb - I totally beg to differ > I see normally on average 3 H.Destroyers and 3 Destroyers in Tier4. In Tier2, Destroyers start showing up. Remember, Destoyers and H.Destroyers are VERY expensive hence the reason they are mixed in rather than spammed. Don't expect ANY AI out there in PC land to adapt so quickly if you keep on using your pro human skills to wear it down.
Maybe it's my experience then. Whenever I play an all random 2v2, I find the side that gets a Necron is usually the side that struggles all game. It's certainly not my 'pro skills', as I frequently get crushed by SM and Tau AI's if things go to tier 4.


As for IG.. we were told by our testers to use more Commissars due to their bonus they give when attached to squads so... As for Teching up: blame it on Relic making the Guard the weakest of the lot. I can't even win with em. Their Tier1 is a joke. Tier2 barely cuts it.
Hmm, I've always found it better to save the resources and tech faster then get extra commissars. The bonus doesn't matter much when pretty much everything outfights guardsmen. Heck, many times I won't even reinforce my initial 2 guardsmen squads. I Just harrass with the CS, get to tier 2 asap and make chims and HWT's. Once you get back map control, tech the rest of the way up quickly. Maybe stop for some tier 3 infantry before getting your tanks up. Try this next time you use IG vs. the AI and see if it improves your chances.

[thudmeizer]

- Most of the testing done shows the Necrons are a little more uber than most. They, after all, have the illustrious "march of death". ;) I almost never see a problem with them in alliances. Its the IG I usually do.. speaking of which..

- Hmm.. we had some good testers tell us about the Commissars so we went with em and up until now since 2.30 has been launched, no probs with the Guard AI in 2.30 (apart from the slight bunkering issue). No clue what to say except we haven't had any majorly bad feedback from how the way the AI plays your dearly loved vanilla DC factions. :D

[the_hunger]

This is interesting. I've played dozens of games with the 2.3 skirmish mod, and I can't say that I've seen the Necrons struggle very often. Actually, I've seen some strikingly vicious tactics, such as the Necron lord stealthing a restored monolith (which will sometimes teleport right into your base) and some smart turret placement. It goes without saying that the Necrons, if anything, need a nerf to the ranged damage of most of their units. The AI builds nicely mixed Necron armies in my experience with this mod. Even the vanilla AI played Necrons decently, perhaps better than any other race.

Regarding the IG, I used to just tech straight to vehicles in tier 2 like SGB to get hellhounds and basilisks. Build order was 3 guardsmen squads (reinforced, but no sergeants), an additional techpriest, tactica, a generator (or two), add grenade launchers, tier 2. This works as long as no one forces you into melee early (don't count on it). Now, I tend to stay in tier 1 a little longer and build a command building so that I can get a commie or 2 and maybe an additional guardsmen squad before that long wait for tier 2 that ties up your HQ building. I almost never build a command squad early, since the pay off is minimal. But I do invest in morale and armor upgrades at the tactica, which do make a difference. Tier 2 is over-rated and anti-climactic for the IG, unlike races like, say, the SM, Chaos, or Tau, where that first dreadnaught, defiler, or Skyray can decisively turn the battle. A Chimera or a hellhound won't do this for you. And the vehicles just go downhill from there for the Guard; the tier-4 Leman Russ is clearly inferior to an upgraded predator, a Skyray (with missile barrage), a looted Russ, a fire prism, etc. Actually, the Leman Russ should have been moved to tier 3 with the last patch, with additional upgrades available in tier 4. Anyhow, I think the AI mod gets it right by upgrading with 1-2 commies in tier 1 and massing guardsmen, equipped with grenade launchers. If the IG had a tier-2 vehicle with balls, a fast tech would be more understandable. But they don't, so it's best for the AI to build some kind of army to survive tier one (even though it might get raped), than to take a chance on not having anything but unreinforced guardsmen squads and a command squad (which can't capture points and is costly to reinforce) in the hope that no one will take advantage of its fast-tech strategy, which a decent human player will punish it for every time.

[spartan_x]

Hi I'm new to this forum and so I don't know if I am asking this question in the right place....

HOW DO YOU DISABLE MELEE DANCING??...

:help:

[ArkhanTheBlack]

HOW DO YOU DISABLE MELEE DANCING??...
With the AI Control Panel. (Look in Programs\THQ\Dawn of War DC\Dawn of Skirmish AI Project\AI Control Panel)

[Steel*Faith]

To Thud, and the rest of the team (if there is a team), could you possibly add a feature to select what custom strategy setting the AI uses?

I think it would be good to have an improvement to the "alternative strategies" and let players choose what strategies the AI uses, and also have an option to have the balanced or random stragies. Sometimes I just want to fight an enemy with a heavy ranged strat, or melee, or vehicle ect.

Thanks for your hard work!

[BudgetMessiah]

Wow...just wow. What a major improvement. Wonderful job guys, very impressive. Please, keep with this project through future patches!

[Vinraith]

Awesome mod guys, it completely renewed my interest in the game.

One thing, though. It seems that the AI Tau players are able to build both Hammerheads and Gnarlocs when this mod is running. Was that deliberate?

[thudmeizer]

@Vinraith - err I do believe you can build both in the vanilla game.

Btw, v2.40 RELEASE is IMMINENT!!!!

[atr3uh]

The gnarlok is a tau relic unit, wich can be built regardless of what path you choose (montka or kauyon)

Unless u mean that the tau are using krootox and hammerheads at the same time, than that would be a problem.

[thudmeizer]

Update..

2.40 release today... standby..

[deathblade]

can't wait...

[LarkinVB]

2.4 is more or less a bugfix release (bunkering/transport/donations/...) so don't get too excited. Of course it's the best DC AI ever.

[deathblade]

anything new for a (more) skirmish player like me is exciting... :D

[thudmeizer]

We're 2.40 live!

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=153009

[Vinraith]

The gnarlok is a tau relic unit

Yup, I'm a tard, nevermind me. :)