[DC 1.2] Tau SkyRay Missile Gunship

[BeFlat]

plz go for
post#32
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=2314797#post2314797


Tau is meant to be the Race with the highest Range and the most dmg.

They have really expensive and very very very fragile vehicles.

One sky ray dies in 2 shots of a sentinel, it dies in 2 shots of a wraithlords lance and it dies in 2 shots of horros and in 2 sec of fragons....and so on...

close combat units can pwn it easily

it is indeed very very very fragile...the way it is meant to be!

BUT where is the dmg? In my opinion it's just the missile barrage which does very very good dmg if you hit it!

And here it is where my problem is:

You have to hit min the half of the rockets or your vehicle at a cost of 100/225 will be useless and will get ownd before it comes to it's recharged missile barrage.

In fact you just build the sky rays to let it offload its barrage only ones before it gets raped!

So you just can't use the barrage you also can use its standard attack which has a very poor accuracy of 70% and does 21.1 dps to all inf and 42.3 dps to vehicle low and med for each of 2 rockets. The veh high dmg is near to nothing with 7dps :(

So you can say: "oh it has knockback" but what is a knockback in times if a Vyper's knockback?

The answer is: NOTHING

The knockback is near to nothing compared to other race's artillery.

It is meant to be Tau's artillery but it doesn't do its job well enough!


Solution:

Get one of the following reworks:

- increase dmg/moral dmg AND accruracy to min 80%
+ increase knockback 1-3 (ballance issue)

- increase hp (from 1000-1500) and reduce recharge time of missile barrage from 70sec to 50-60sec (ballance issue)

So it get's an artillery with often barrage ability or
constant range dmg with knockback.

EDIT: The missile barrage ability's target also should not be seen by the enemy OR it's "casting" time get's decreased, right now it's like 2.5 - 3 sec...enemy can easily avoid!

[Question]

70% accuracy is not low...infact its fairly standard, and you obviously missed the line that said there were TWO launchers. The knockback really does do jack, because it only affects like...one person at a time or something. Also the projectile is so slow that it cant hit semi-fast units moving parallel to the skyray.

Missle barrage's range is 40, 10 less than the normal launchers, probably because sitting at full 50 range and missle barraging before you can get a chance to hit them with AV would be a bit imba. I dont think the ability needs a cooldown decrease really. If you cant see the target, it would probably be too difficult to avoid.

[BeFlat]

So you basicly think the SkyRays are 100% right how the are????

Cost effectiv?

This is what your post says but this is far from reality...

They are not cost effectiv... compare them to defilers which have a slightly higher cost of 150/260 they survive 3-5 times longer and do MASSIV dmg.

I also know that I can't compare defilers to skyrays, completly sepperated units, but it shows the cost effectivity!

[Question]

I suggest you calm down and re-read my post first.

[BeFlat]

Sry if you felt attacked, don't wanted to...

btw: I'm not upset^^

So I calm down^^

And 70% is not standard:

WW has 100%

Defilers have 100% battle cannon+autocannon 85%+flamer 100%

Vyper missile launcher 85% catapult 80%

Wartrak Rokkit Launcha 70%->Bomb chukka 80%

Basilisk Earthshaker Cannon 100%

Necs don't have artillery

80% is realistic!

[ImmortalChaos]

Skyrays do as much damage as basilisks did in early DC. They also have 50 range to keep them out of trouble.
Skyrays are fine. If anything, they are overpowered, because imbarrage takes out armies on its own. It easily pays for itself in 1 shot of that thing- and all it needs to do to survive after it is run back to its 50 range and continue being a pain. If it lasts another minue- It might even pay for itself 3x over.


PS: You just made 2 tau vehicle threads that could have easily be combined into one. Not to backseat moderate, but you ought to have just made 1 thread.

[fuggles]

why would I compare them to a defiler again?

[The_Guardman]

If anything, they are overpowered, because imbarrage takes out armies on its own.
For a cost, for the full vehicle and ability usage, inferior to a single ES shell. And more you are able to keep the SkR alive, more it repay itself, differing from the ES shell.

Hu, and the accuracy is better than a SM, while overall damage (without taking the barrage into acocunt) is very good, near 2/3 of Sentinel AV and similar to 2 termy or 1 SM HB as AI. All in a nice and economic pakage.

[BeFlat]

I just compared them to defilers because of being an artillery, too and the cost are nearly equil.

I wanted to show SkyRay's cost effectivity.

And yes I made 2 Threads because there is a lonesome thread for every single unit more than ones and there is no thread for Tau vehicles.
+
I don't wanted to get people talking:
"drones are ok-Tau has skyrays"

I wanted to talk about the single units seperatly.

They point is that skyrays are just to offload barrage if you miss it (3sec casting time, can be easily avoided) you are screwed!!!

btw: 50 range is very small for an artillery!

[ImmortalChaos]

Also, your DPS numbers are wrong. You posted the damage of one missle pod. It has 2.

Double your DPS and multiply that by the units hit and you have skyray DPS- it can easily be 120 DPS against infantry if it hits 3 units.

[BeFlat]

edited my first post to 2x missile launchers

[Question]

Im not even sure if the smart missles can hit more than one target. I know they have a listed AOE, but i cant help but think its like the hellfire missle that only does damage to its initial target. Vypers arent artillery btw, and neither are skyrays.

[BeFlat]

Artillery should disrupt units to get them outta heavy cover combined with moral dmg...

And Vypers + Skyrays are for this proposual, aren't they? ;)

[ImmortalChaos]

Skyrays are actually for toting a crazyly overpowered ability and killing infantry with 100+DPS...

[BeFlat]

I don't want SkyRays to become imba, so nerf imbarrage, its ok for me but they don't fit their role like they are right now!

[Question]

IMHO to be artillery it must be long range and have the attack ground command. Otherwise its just disruption.

This is really weird. Smart missles are listed with a AOE of 5. Thats big enough so that if a smart missle hits a squad member, most of the squad should go flying. But this doesnt happen.

For comparison purposes cultist GLs have AOE 4 and thats large enough to affect the entire squad(for most squads).

[ImmortalChaos]

The aoe of the damage and the aoe of the diruption are different values. The skyray has enough aoe to hit the squad (doing huge dps) but not enough knockback to send them flying (kind of like the 1.11 defiler).

[BeFlat]

Your point here question^^

[SubakuGaara]

I think the sky barrage needs a look at. The other day I did a lab with someone where he'd barrage and I'd try and avoid it. Impossible.

[fuggles]

were you necrons again? :p

[Pellucid]

Skyray, meet Basilisk. Basilisk, meet Skyray.

Except that Skyrays can actually damage vehicles.

[Spekkio]

Skyrays aren't artillery. An artillery unit is one that is meant to sit still and bombs from a very far off location (further than 50 range). The missiles then disrupt and generally annoy units who are in a fortified position. Artillery can also attack ground in the fog of war.

Skyrays are a vehicle that has missiles as its main weapon. That does not make it artillery. Comparing it to bassies, the whirlwind, or the defiler is just stupid.

Yea, their AI damage without barrage isn't that great, but they are shooting missiles which are effective against vehicles (the HUD is wrong when it says effective against infantry). I almost always target vehicles with the skyray if I see them.

However, I do think that skyrays could benefit from a cooldown nerf of missile barrage in addition to a slight hp buff (I often suffer from the same problem as OP: use one barrage and skyray dies, even when they opposing army doesn't have dedicated AV on the field).

[ImmortalChaos]

The skyray had 80 DPS vs vehicles, and 40 vs infantry. Against infantry it has no problem hitting 3-4 units and putting its DPS into the 100-150 range. That is huge.

[Drasius]

Skyray is on the OP side of fine. Imagine it as the floating lovechild of a Hellfire and a Basilisk.

Hellfireish range, damage of a Bassie (a 1.1 bassie) with an occasional free earthshaker in tier 2.

[Chad Ghostal]

I'll take a cooldown nerf, if they buff it's range to 50, and remove the targeting view from opponents.

[fs_xyz]

Giving all Tau vehicles jump ability ? ( only 1 jump )

[Question]

I dont think thats going to happen....

[Apathetic]

Here's a question:
If the Skyray is not artillery (and therefore should not be granted a range increase), why does it only deal a whopping 7DPS to build_high (HQs)? The only other T2.5 vehicles that deal single-digit DPS to build_high are the SM Whirlwind and the IG Basilisk, the only true "artillery" units in the game that enjoy an abundantly superior range factor and are understandably handicapped to prevent them from completely leveling a base from outside its perimeter before you can respond.

For a point of reference, the Devilfish, the Drone Squad, and the Drone Harbinger all deal 16DPS against build_high.

[Chad Ghostal]

A range increase for missile barrage, not it's dual missiles. The skyray is a weird one, it's like an light AV sentinal, with a bassy ability.

[ImmortalChaos]

it's like an light AV sentinal
With huge AI power...

[The_Guardman]

the only true "artillery" units in the game that enjoy an abundantly superior range factor and are understandably handicapped to prevent them from completely leveling a base from outside its perimeter before you can respond.

A thing, I have to say, totally illogical. Long-range artillery exist (in real world) to level structures from safe range. This is becouse they are not mean to hit moving targets. A shot to a 5km away target that land within a scatter of 50m is considerated enough accurated!

Short range artillery is used for slow targets (tanks, other artillery, fortified forward positions, occasionally an ambush to uncovered marching units.).

Having the longest range artillery in the game used for anti-infantry duty is a clear sign of misinterpretation of his role (and as such, the main cause of the problem with it: if the IG artillery become able to decently destroyng buildings, while having a good scatter, the defensive setup of IG would be highly improved. HWTs and IC will become more important if you have NOT to go inside the enemy base to kill it.)

[BeFlat]

Let's get back to topic:

SkyRays as they are right now are crap, some guys feel missile barrage is OP, some others think that they are too fragile, some others think they don't do enough dmg vs infantry....

So what I get out of this is SkyRays should get a defined role in the Tau army!

Is it a disruptor?

Is it artillery?

Should it be a long ranged AI or AV?

So these are the questions I'm asking you!

What role should the Sky Ray Missile Gunship fit?

What kind of changes do you advise?

Is it fair if missile barrage has a "casting time" of 3sec AND the located area is visible for your enemy?

I gave some changes in my first post!

Giving them a slightly better health, a slightly better accuracy, a bit more knockback, so that it fits a long range disruptor, this is what Tau needs in my opinion!
(adjusting the missile barrage, don't having another imba)


Or make it a 60sec cooldown barrage beast, with no other use than erasing an entire area to dust....


btw: nerf the vehicle dmg, Tau don't need a 3rd AV unit (SS, BS)

[ImmortalChaos]

SkyRays as they are right now are crap,
For the last time, this is not true and this whole thread is pointless. Read my posts- 40 DPS in a range of 5 = over 100 dps to infantry! A HWT does that without any disruption and costs 250/50 and takes forever to build.

Is it fair if missile barrage has a "casting time" of 3sec AND the located area is visible for your enemy?
Oh, I get it, missle barrages need to kill at least 1-2 full squads ever time you use it with no chance for the enemy to avoid? Yeah, perfect balance.

[BeFlat]

I'd be pleased if you could answer any of my questions...ty

btw: "this whole thread is pointless" - call a mod

[The Boz]

Why should the Skyray have any role that fits your brain's definitions? They're ALIENS. As in, NOT HUMAN. Different types of logic, thought process and all. I see no reason to change the Skyray's role or effectiveness.

[ImmortalChaos]

Want me to answer your questions?




Is it a disruptor?
Yes.


Is it artillery?
No.


Should it be a long ranged AI or AV?
Both.


What role should the Sky Ray Missile Gunship fit?
Right now it soft counters everything and hard counters(aka SLAUGHTERS) infantry masses.


What kind of changes do you advise?
None, and increase the reload time of imbarrage.


Is it fair if missile barrage has a "casting time" of 3sec AND the located area is visible for your enemy?
Fucking yes.


Questions answered.

[BeFlat]

ty

[Spekkio]

The skyray fits its role right now: it is a "glass cannon" missile ship that is capable of dealing good damage to all targets. This is countered by the fact that melee units can bring it down without penalty (min firing range), and that it only has 1k hps of veh_med armor. I wasn't aware that the missiles did AoE damage to infantry, btw.

[ImmortalChaos]

The AoE is 5, which is as big as a basi, and easily enough to nail 3+ targets every time. Its knockback isnt as powerful but it is still enuough to stop units like GL or HBs from fireing.

[War-Reborn]

It's light armour is it's only weakenss, it's dmg to all targets is good, an the barrage postively brutalises infantry squads, infantry with less than 500 hp I'e a full squad of tacs, caught by one of these can easilily loose half it's members or more, even if there not upgraded thats a hugh loss.

This games all about attrition all else being roughly equal, this unit can sit right back hitting things with it's smart missiles, spot a tasty target move in launch a heavy volly which it can still do from quite some range, an them move back again, people underestimate the units range, it's not meant to sit on the front line, a sentinal may well beat one in a straight fight, along with a host of other vehicles, however the games not based around 1 on 1 encounters it's how a unit performs as part of your army, i'd take a skyray over a sentinal any day, it simply has higher overall battlefield effectiveness than a sent, put short it's more usefull more of the time, than what a sent is

[Road-kill]

It has very long range, so much so that you shouldn't need to keep them that close to a target. As for the barrage's 'casting time'. From fancy graphics to detonation most infantry-especially the IG-can't get out in time. In fact, a missile barrage is usually a good way to hamstring the Ig, by annihilating the squad, or reducing the numbers to around 5.

[Jaimas]

Gotta hand it to Relic. Basilisk gets nerfed to oblivion, and Whirlwind is pushed to tier 4, but the Whirlwind remains broken in half and the Skyray is absolutely untouched.

Seriously, I knew Skyrays were ridiculous from the moment I first used Imbarrage in the tutorial. As it stands, the ability is completely OP.

[4ries]

People,

If I may say this: Tau are meant to continue forward when a battle was won in favour of Tau. If you continue this thought to ALL Tau units you'd realize they are meant to be used in the front. As with the Skyray not having the artillery range other races have, its not meant to be a long (!) range artillery unit. Its a fire support unit with ONE HUGE disruption ability: Missile Barrage... So please try to see this in light of each respective race... Each and every race has its own background: who are they, what are they doing, what tech they are using, the mantra they are using (SM: for the Emperor!; Tau: For The Greater Good! etc etc etc...) So please stop complaining just because Tau units cant be compared to other races units allthough they have some general roles that CAN be compared...Tau HH = heavy tank; SM PRedator = heavy tank; Tau Skyray = fire support/artillery (to a degree), SM Whirlwind = artillery (because of its range and power) etc etc etc...

I even think I alone have halted this topic to a dead stop... Races just cant be compared to eachother as whole and even not individual... Firewarriors are prolly the best ranged infantry in the game. Then you have SM with their adaptibilty (changing HW on the fly...)... I could write a book here but I wont :P

greetz

[D153453D]

It's light armour is it's only weakenss, it's dmg to all targets is good, an the barrage postively brutalises infantry squads, infantry with less than 500 hp I'e a full squad of tacs, caught by one of these can easilily loose half it's members or more, even if there not upgraded thats a hugh loss.

All you need to know

[fs_xyz]

Put hardcap on Skyrays ?

[Gaizokubanou]

Urgh no more hardcaps please...

Maybe cooldown nerf or damage nerf to the MB. I would like to see a damage nerf but reduced cooldown for more knockbacks that doesn't necessarily wipe out the enemy (only half the missiles with 75% of current cooldown time? something roughly like that).

Couldn't an Eldar player own skyrays with vipers btw?

[fs_xyz]

Uhh... FDragons are better solution for Eldar...
Vypers will be dead, but can act as a nice support for AV.

[Question]

From my experience missle barrage isnt as damaging as its numbers say.

It doesnt fire all missles at once, it fires them consecutively. Once the first few missles have hit, the squad gets blown away from the point of impact. Generally speaking at least 50% of the missles dont do any damage because the squad members have been blown too far away to be affected. If not for the knockback effect, yes, entire squads would be getting annihilated, but as it is i usually only see them getting damaged to half health and losing a couple members. Infact, i had T2 reapers get missle barraged last night, and lost only 2 members and took some damage to the other members of the squad, and was able to avoid the next 4 missle barrages.

The only time i saw entire squads get nuked 4 missle barrages on a very tight NW mass. Ironically, the heavy weight of NW that makes them hard to disrupt worked agaisnt them.

[Ruonim]

sorry what u want from fd? ! tact missile squad wtf pwns skyray in 1 volley ><. Spoted = die.

[SubakuGaara]

reduce AOE a bit and reduce knockback a bit and it should be ok.

[Inst]

Damage versus infantry is not as high as you think it is, because infantry that are hit tend to go flying, and thus become immune. So it's more like a TT-style twinlink. And even then, at 40 dps for a 1000 hp 325 res vehicle is very low. A gun drone deals 30 dps for only 100 res. A devilfish does the same but has better hp. A landspeeder deals like 66 dps, but costs about 200 res.

If you've played Tau intensively, you'll soon discover that Fire Warriors are crap between the moment your opponent has tier 2 infantry and the moment your ethereal strides into play. And even then, they can't match WS or shoota boyz. Two ways the Tau can get around this is with hardcore fish of fury micro or with missile barrage.

Alternately, Tau can't deal with cloaked units. If they're facing a cloaked armies like tier 2 snipers or cloaked CSMs, the only way they can hope to survive is with missile barrage.

If you want to nerf missile barrage, we can engage in a trade. Give us better pathfinders. Either detect range 40, or enough HP for cost to become a hyper-annoying decapper. Then remodel the skyray into something similar to its demo format. 2 cap, for example. Missile barrage now disrupts, but has difficulty killing except when spammed en masse. 4/7 of its old damage, feed it a pathfinder to restore its old lethality.

[Jaimas]

Nerf on Skyray MB Cooldown in exchange for longer pathfinder detection range? Jesus Christ, DONE. Tau have been in need of such a boost since they hit DC.

[BeFlat]

"From my experience missle barrage isnt as damaging as its numbers say.

It doesnt fire all missles at once, it fires them consecutively. Once the first few missles have hit, the squad gets blown away from the point of impact. Generally speaking at least 50% of the missles dont do any damage because the squad members have been blown too far away to be affected. If not for the knockback effect, yes, entire squads would be getting annihilated, but as it is i usually only see them getting damaged to half health and losing a couple members. Infact, i had T2 reapers get missle barraged last night, and lost only 2 members and took some damage to the other members of the squad, and was able to avoid the next 4 missle barrages.

The only time i saw entire squads get nuked 4 missle barrages on a very tight NW mass. Ironically, the heavy weight of NW that makes them hard to disrupt worked agaisnt them." - Question

This is the way it is right now. If your enemy watches his army than it's very hard to do great dmg with your SkyRay.

[Spekkio]

One thing I know I hate about skyrays is their slow as balls turning speed. If you ever have to turn and run, the skyrays are as good as dead.

[BeFlat]

I would like them to get nerfed the barrage a bit, but giving the SKY Rays one jump to flee.

[Thelron]

But, they're not jumpers the way the Eldar skimmers are.

Though, it does make me wonder, with the skyray tending to lose a lot of its barrage damage due to flying targets (it does have a nice AB punch if you're willing to give up the skyray... cheaper than an ES round though), is it the ultimate FD eraser? Since they don't get knocked around... all you need is a slight distraction...

[Hiroshi_Tea]

FD are not knocked about the missile barrage
so that pretty much does nothing but damage them
for the duration of the attack
however, their armor can allow them
to survive through the barrage
long enough for them to kill the skyray

[BeFlat]

"But, they're not jumpers the way the Eldar skimmers are."

Right, they are flyers!

[Micro102]

when 4 skyrays can take down an entire necron army, something is wrong. their MB is far too strong against inf for an AV veh. and the range is ridicoluous

[Spekkio]

Lol, yea...god forbid you do something other than spam FOs against Tau.

If he has 4x skyrays, he can't have much of anything else unless you left him alone for 6 minutes. NL solar pulse + 2x immortals = gg tau.

[Micro102]

i was thinking about immortals when i posted this. they have much farther range hten immortals and it takes 1 MB to take them down. 2 for every other type of necron inf, and SP doesnt effect missale barrage

[Spekkio]

The question still remains: wtf were you doing while the Tau player managed to spend 400 req and over 1k power on vehicles, not to mention the 300/100 to build the beacon and all the gens that would allow such production?

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Do what you like with the Sky Ray, but please nerf it broadcasting its attack order confirmations on the open channel- I don't play Tau, but i must have heard "Missiles are hot!" "Bring down the rain of fire!" at least as many times as the average Tau player.

[RedDevil]

Jaimas: Huh? Wasn't the Skyray barrage already nurfed in 1.1?

EDIT:
I can't find patch notes for 1.1, but in 1.2:
"The Skyray Missile Barrage cool down has been increased from 60 to 70 seconds. "

EDIT2: Glad you edited your post. I know it's not a huge nurf, but it was touched on, unlike you claimed. So I don't think it's fare to use that incorrect claim to validate your Relic bashing.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

10 sec
woot!

[Spekkio]

Do what you like with the Sky Ray, but please nerf it broadcasting its attack order confirmations on the open channel- I don't play Tau, but i must have heard "Missiles are hot!" "Bring down the rain of fire!" at least as many times as the average Tau player. That's not the attack order confirmation, that's just general warcry shit that you hear from all other armies as well.

Do you know how annoying it is to hear "atttacccck, break their baaaacks, atttaaaaack" constantly when dancing zerkers? Or how about the "rrraaaaarrr space marines attack!" from sm? Just all-around annoying sometimes.

[RedDevil]

Hiroshi Tea. Let me guess, you've had some bad games against Tau lately where good Skyray use cost you the game? I think your posts are very emotionally charged. That colours your claims even if they are very true.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

i'm just a tad bit pessimistic
and annoyed at the patch
at this time and point

that's because i play IG like shit
i'll keep a clearer head next time

[Question]

Im actually pretty sure skyrays do use a special voice when firing their missle barrage. Its not really a warcry, but something that they say when they start firing the barrage.

[Micro102]

yeh i think its "missiles locked"

when you have a T2 tank with powerful AV attack with 50 range, and an ultamite AI special ability and distuption attack at 40 range (more if you add the radius of the special) then who is going to stop you from winning if you micro skillfully? keep them in the back and use their uber range to wipe out any inf

[RedDevil]

Don't They die in 2 shots from a sentinal?

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

That's not the attack order confirmation, that's just general warcry shit that you hear from all other armies as well.

Do you know how annoying it is to hear "atttacccck, break their baaaacks, atttaaaaack" constantly when dancing zerkers? Or how about the "rrraaaaarrr space marines attack!" from sm? Just all-around annoying sometimes.

It is the attack order confirmation. Play as Tau and give a sky ray attack orders, and you'll hear exactly the same speech as other races hear it spamming on the open channel. The only vehicles that I can recall that have battle cries are the dreadnought and killa kan, I don't know why we should be able to hear a pilot of a sealed, pressurised gunship talking loudly when fighting them.

[Question]

Yea skyrays die in 2 shots to sentinels.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

if the sent strikes actually hit ;)

[Aesthetics]

Lies!
All hail SkyRay Missile Gunship.

[Ruonim]

well 1 volley of missiles of tact squad wipes out skyray. It wont even shoot half barage at them.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

if the barrage is heading for those tacs
then there is a missile salvo going out
disruption will assuredly keep those tacs from firing

[RedDevil]

Eh? They're all loaded, wouldn't they fire at once? Disruption means nothing, if the missiles are already in the air. Goes both ways.

[blackpaladin05]

Lies!
All hail SkyRay Missile Gunship.

Tau-toss Missle Carrier = Instant Win?

[BeFlat]

"Eh? They're all loaded, wouldn't they fire at once? Disruption means nothing, if the missiles are already in the air. Goes both ways."

well the SM missile have more range than the MB, also once fired the SM missiles fly and do dmg yes, but the SkyRay's MB is different:

once activated it takes some time to offload its missiles, if u kill the SR while shooting, the MB will be stopped. If just fired one missile 17 won't be fired.

All missiles in the air, do dmg if hitting.

[Micro102]

great now what are ppl suppose to do with horrors, fragons, immortals,tankbustas. you knwo the things that dont have super long range

[fuggles]

Well TB can stealth, Fragons can Fof, horrors can DS... Immortals can hope their name is accurate

[Cyberbob]

great now what are ppl suppose to do with horrors, fragons, immortals,tankbustas. you knwo the things that dont have super long range

As fuggles pointed out, Tankbustaz can infiltrate, Fragons have FoF, Horrors can DS - so, really, it would only be Necron players who would need to learn new tactics.

How ironic.

[MegaTheOne]

lol immortals like 3-4 shoot skyray.. they really dont need anything ;)

[Micro102]

well you got me on the DS horrors. but do you really think that with 50 range skyrays they arent gonna have pathfinders?

and like i said time after time immortals get insta gibbed by missale barrage which has longer reange then them

[Cyberbob]

but do you really think that with 50 range skyrays they arent gonna have pathfinders

Pathfinders are weak as piss. Drop an FO squad on them and watch them melt.

[fuggles]

TBH Micro, I have never seen a game line up so nicely that path finders can stay 50 range ahead of skyrays and not die. The NL on his own can nullify skyrays with solar pulse and the mass of NW threatening your frontline makes a better Skyray target than the immortals, generally.

The thing is pretty light weight, NW guns would have a fair go at it I suspect.

[Micro102]

50 range ahead of skyrays? pathfinders have a huge sight range. they just need to stand next to the skyrays. and SP may stop the missales but the missale barrage isnt effected by it they can still gib an army. when you add the horde of FW there really isnt anything you can do except for drop FO and hope you caused a LOT of pathing trouble

and FYI pathfinders are faster then FO and have supressive fire. so FO wont cut it

[Gaizokubanou]

MB can't instagib an army, unless you like to bunch up your units in a choke point and don't move out of the way even when you see like 3 skyrays coming in, and MB has shortger range than skyray's regular attack and also gives it away. And as necron you can pretty much steal the map control before skyrays come into play and simply outbuild tau's army, not to mention immortals just pwn skyrays (unless you are really lazy, you can easily avoid them being hit completely by MB which will leave enough alive to annihilate the skyray).

[Question]

Missle barrage doesnt isnta gib squads because of the knockback.

[Infernoblaze]

I've always foind Skyrays to be insanely usefull with MB, it works on just about everything, if there's any AV ahead you just send up some weak inf so they wate their shot and them MB them to hell.

[Micro102]

MB can't instagib an army, unless you like to bunch up your units in a choke point and don't move out of the way even when you see like 3 skyrays coming in, and MB has shortger range than skyray's regular attack and also gives it away. And as necron you can pretty much steal the map control before skyrays come into play and simply outbuild tau's army, not to mention immortals just pwn skyrays (unless you are really lazy, you can easily avoid them being hit completely by MB which will leave enough alive to annihilate the skyray). MB still has 40 range and a large AoE effectivly making it 45 range.

if you let necrons have map control then you deserve to lose lol.

and immortals are slow, no tele, and get insta gibbed by 1 MB. ive tried immortals, they dont work.


and necrons dont get knocked back, they get knocked down due to weight so diruption just makes them unable to move or attack

[Gaizokubanou]

if you let necrons have map control then you deserve to lose lol.


There is not much Tau can do against Necron in this matchup.

[RedDevil]

BeFlat: I know, I was responding to Hiroshi Tea's comment:

"if the barrage is heading for those tacs
then there is a missile salvo going out
disruption will assuredly keep those tacs from firing"

Then I replied "Eh? They're all loaded, wouldn't they fire at once? Disruption means nothing, if the missiles are already in the air."

Meaning that disruption shouldn't stop the Marines from firing the missiles like he was claiming.

You and I were meaning the same thing =P

[Micro102]

There is not much Tau can do against Necron in this matchup.

you mean taking the map? SS are invisable and have jump. best cappers in the game

[BeFlat]

@RedDevil
lol, nice^^

@Micro
necs have wraiths which are the death for Tau, not just for FW also for SS

[blackpaladin05]

you mean taking the map? SS are invisable and have jump. best cappers in the gameWhen they go up against the cheapest LP1s, detecting Builders, and Wraiths, their usefulness drops exponentially. They might be best overall, but I'd take just about any more survivable capper over a SS against Necrons.

[Micro102]

lol wraiths dont mean end of SS. they have jetpacks so they can jump away. and id much rather be using the wraiths to fight off the FW and vespids that are attacking my base not keeping him from capping an extra point.

i actually used the double wriath build. it failed miserably. instead of building FW, he built 1 kroot and sent them in with vespids and commander. i couldnt touch the vespids and commander with their jumps and the kroot just massacred my wraiths. by the time i fought off this 3 man army and got a sizable force out i was hit by T3 CS. which do not have low health they have 2500 heavy high armour with jumps and god like flamers. raosted my buildings and inf.