Strafing Runs/Bombing Runs

[kadorn]

I sure many axis players will know how annoying a good strafing run is, and a well placed one can cost you a game in 1v1. I was just wondering why if you shoot the plane down, it has no effect on the timer?
There seems little incentive to actually build anti air, because especially in a 1v1 chances are the plane will drop/fire its payload before being shot down and shooting it down will just cause another explosive object to land somewhere.

Does anyone else think that shooting down the plane should increase the time it takes for allied player to have another one available? thus giving axis infantry some peace for a few minutes if they manage to shoot the plane down.

[TheLockDown]

i agree, if shot down it should incrase the timmer for the cooldown on the abitlity, altho if there is a chance to kill alot of infatry with a strafing run i dont think the allied player is really going to care if he has to wait alitle bit to do it again

[Catastrofizum]

Yeh, I just finished a game that was going nicely until game over thanks to strafing run. I was definitely losing but it looked set for both sides to have one last showdown. Unfortunately, while moving into position a 'freak' air run took out 2 whole vet 2, inf squads at almost full health (they were in neg cover). Yippey, yay, that was fun - there wasn't any point playing on so we both agreed gg and I left.

Not sure which is the bigger game spoiler out of croc or air raids...

[Cobra5]

They are pretty random... I've seen them knock out whole clumps of infantry... I've seen them hit directly onto my troops and kill maybe one man (Or none).

It can end the game, or it can be a waste of Munitions...

I think two things should be done with strafing run. One, The strafing run should actually take place within the bracketed area that you place on the ground. Two, the strafing run should hurt your own men, just like every other artillery in the game.

[Chronos525]

Pretty good idea but I'd like to see anti-air actually STOP the plane from doing what it needs to do. Planes only get shot down if the anti-air unit is pointed where it's coming from and even then it's a 50-50 shot. And if the enemy knows which way your unit is facing...

[Gethsemani]

The Ostwind and Puma reliably kills aircraft. If you have two Ostwinds (yeah never happens I know) you have a gauranteed downed aircraft, even if they face the wrong way, that's just how fast their turret turns.

[Demonic Spoon]

Actually, I did some testing in Cheatmod and even 6 or so ostwinds couldn't always take down planes.

[Letiger]

Your testing sounds inaccurate then Demonic. I had 2 pumas in my base once, one upgunned, and they took down 3 attempted bombing runs.

Of course, the downed planes hit my HQ and destroyed it...but that's besides the point.

[Snipermanic]

then you only had 1 anti-air capable puma if 1 had the 50mm

[AverageJoe]

But he was using Ostiwnds. Did you spam Recon Run like mad or did you do it one at a time? I have CheatMod too, so I know how to "Spam" it.

[re-con]

"Not sure which is the bigger game spoiler out of croc or air raids..."

Piospam is in contention, but for me any Vet2/3 Armour. I guess its all a matter of perspective :)

[Pyro Paul]

Strafing runs and anti air are two vast grey areas. tthere are several occations where ostwinds and Flak88s spaced perfectly apart can't bring down a single one. and others where a single ostwind, or randomly placed flak brings the allied airforce to their knees.

although i notice 3 things. either the Plane bombards the target with bullets or bombs, the plane gets shot down (often crashing on the target, or off map depending on how close to map edge you are) or the plane vears off.

i am not sure how to make a plane vear off course, but if anti air is the cause, and it was tweaked so that it would do it more often, it would definatly make them more useful.

[SirBeastly]

A player should not be punished for successfully shooting down an enemy plane, the way it is now with kamikaze pilots. Why should a plane become a MORE effective weapon once it has been shot down?

A reward in the form of a cooldown increase makes perfect sense to me.
Gives you time at least to rebuild the units, buildings and flak 88 that the aircraft just crashed into and obliterated.

[AverageJoe]

If there is a longer delay, then how much is reasonable? Double? 50% more?

[frigstar]

the plane drops bombs over an area. when the plane is shot down, all the bombs land in one small area. so the effect is magnified. simple really.

[scoiatollo]

It would make sense if the timer gets increased for shooting down planes. I would go a little further with this, first one increases the time 25%, second one 50% and third one doubles the time.
But there it should stop.

[kippcasper73]

osts will have better chance to shoot down air if they are orientated along the plane flight path, and do not have obscured views of the sky/horizon when the plane flies in.

[Chronos525]

What's the cooldown time on runs? Isn't it like 30 seconds? 25% won't mean jack. It has to be a multiple like 2 or 3 to really make an impact.

But like I've said, I just wanna see anti-air stop aircraft from doing it's damage.

[scoiatollo]

if it would take 2/3 times long to order another strafing run I would say it should be only for the next use. My suggestion would be permanent...

[re-con]

"My suggestion would be permanent..."

So if I kill a Tiger, or any axis off map tank, then they wouldn't be able to call another one in? I think that would make it fair. Same with the cool down argument. :wtf:

Isn't this a balance issue?

[scoiatollo]

Why not? I am not suggesting to ban Strafingruns if the plain get shot, I am just suggesting, that you should penalise players who use them as kamikaze plains... It would make perfect sense since in WW2 there were no unlimited supplies...

And no, Tiger would be fine since this is a unit on the field...

[re-con]

"Tiger would be fine since this is a unit on the field..."

No its not, its a off map call in like strafing runs. Going by your logic strafing runs are fine because they also are a unit on the feild when they are called in.

[scoiatollo]

Okay, just by logic, Strafing run is 150mun, Bombing run is 250mun, Tiger is 900mp and Tigerace is 1000(?!)mp.
Now it's "very cheap" to use bombing run compare with the Tiger (which should cost fuel or have some other nerf btw). A Tiger can be "fought" by every unit, whereas I must build "special" AA troops to kill such a plane. And be honest, how many Bombing/Strafing runs are you going to make in a normal game? I never had more than 4runs...

So my nerf would hit actually 2v2 and above where those runs are more spamable and more devasting (since more units are on the field). Let's say the counter is really 30sec, with my suggestion after the first shot down it would be 37,25sec. It's very unlikely that you would use in this period of time the Strafing run again.

Strafing/Bombing runs are damn powerful and need a small nerf so why not reward the Axis player for shooting down the plain by increasing the call time?

[LTSearchEngine]

Strafing run is only a waste of munitions if you use it on vet troops who are not going to be in combat any time soon. Otherwise, even if you don't kill them, you always significantly damage their health. Maybe 1/12 times, the strafe will appear to hit and do nothing. It is thought that this is a bug, and I think it has to do with terrain.

Otherwise, its like hitting each member of a squad with a grenade at varying ranges. Even if it doesn't kill, it screws them over.

[PappaRock]

Planes only get shot down if the anti-air unit is pointed where it's coming from and even then it's a 50-50 shot.
I wish I would've saved the replay...about 10 strafing run attempts in a row and plane was shot down every time.


Of course, the downed planes hit my HQ and destroyed it...but that's besides the point.
If you have the replay I would love to see this. PM me if you have it.

[scoiatollo]

about 10 strafing run attempts in a row and plane was shot down every time.

ehhmm... yes.... If he can afford 10 strafing runs something went terrible wrong....

[LTSearchEngine]

ehhmm... yes.... If he can afford 10 strafing runs something went terrible wrong....

I might be wrong, but if the bullets havent started, don't you get a full refund?

[scoiatollo]

If that's the case my apologies for being sarcastic, didn't know that.

[PappaRock]

yeah i got the munitions back...just making the point that 100% of my strafing runs in that game was ineffective.
To battle your sarcasm...I've played in 1v1 matches where I had netted over a thousand munitions through normal build up as well as supply drops. It's not that uncommon with airborne doctrine. Especially before one had to pay for the supply drops.

[Col Hackworth]

I think nerfing off-map air support this way is a bad idea. Why shouldn't you then be able to counter-battery fire on off-map howitzers, mortars and rockets from other company and doctrine trees? You can see the plane coming a mile away, strafing run is avoidable. You get about fifteen minutes warning on the bombing run. Get out of the way. If you shoot the plane down you should earn lots of XP. If you're going to extend the cool-down period for shot down planes, then for balance strafing runs need to be much more consistent in their damage. (Off-map artillery kills regardless of veterancy, why should strafing be any different?)

[Busby]

You can see the plane coming a mile away, strafing run is avoidable

Only on the largest maps, and even then you have to be very watchful to see the plane coming, and shooting down the plane can actually be worse then just letting it do its run.

[re-con]

"Strafing/Bombing runs are damn powerful and need a small nerf so why not reward the Axis player for shooting down the plain by increasing the call time?"

Replace strafing run with Tiger, plane with tank, and axis player with allies. :D

[scoiatollo]

How about this, increase the damage a little bit (maybe due a little longer fire lane) but increase the time for calling after shot down.

As for Tigers I would say nerf their vet and they will be fine...

[Demonic Spoon]

Strafing runs damage should be constant, but capped...It should never wipe out whole squads. However, it should always heavily damage infantry in its area of effect.

[scoiatollo]

True, I really can't see how this damagesystem works. One time I wipe out nearly 3 squads the other time not a single member is hurt.

[TheJon]

so basically ur saying.

"this is alpha one, warthog has been shot out of the sky, have another plane on standby for another run"

'Roger that, but since its been shot down, its going to take a little longer for us to get another plane ready'

why? i dont understand why that makes a difference.
That would be just as unfair as losing 50 munitions when a vehicle comes out of range of a volks squad's panzerfaust range.
o wait...that already happens

[Schwarzwald]

Hmm i recall reading somewhere/seeing that pilots thought it to be dishonorable to fire upon downed pilots/infantry something like that?

I believe it was from the film fly boys..

But for it to be In-game i guess it did happened in WW2.


Overall thought ,yeah the ability is very irritating if your units arent in green cover...

[scoiatollo]

@Jon: As if planes where only needed in the normandy... Allies didn't have endless resources and shooting down a plane could be crucial.

On the one hand people complain about that AWM is used for kamikaze attacks and Allies shouldn't be rewarded for this, on the other hand you want to have no change when you launch a kamikaze attack with a plane where it crashes...

[E-Bass]

150 munitions is generally too much to waste on the small chance of an accurate kamikaze attack. Definatly is in 1v1

[fatnic388]

What if every so often the pilot makes it after being shot down. You can then control him in the field, running around with a pistol :p

[avisotin]

^^ Best idea ever tbh :jump:

[LTSearchEngine]

You can see the plane coming a mile away, strafing run is avoidable.

No you can't, no it isn't.

Only on big maps coming diagonally from the opposite corner, and good players use it when you're vulnerable in combat.

[Pyro Paul]

so basically ur saying.

basicly we are saying:

BD1: "this is Is Birddog One Asking for targets Control."

Control: "hold station Bird Dog One, we have a downed plane in area. don't want to risk any life on a hot zone."

BD1: "Roger that control, Bird Dog one holding station until AA is cleared"

In truth when the first plane gets shot down, you wouldn't be able to use Any planes until the Anti aircraft unit that shot it down was confirmed destroyed.

but since it is a game, you just add a little extra on as a reward to the axis player for acctually getting Anti Air and explain it as Air control contemplating weither or not to commit more planes to the battle.


That would be just as unfair as losing 50 munitions when a vehicle comes out of range of a volks squad's panzerfaust range.
o wait...that already happens

what is that?

when you hit Panzerfaust and if you don't shoot the panzerfaust you get the munitions back. further more, if the thing is in panzerfaust range and the panzerfaust shoots, it has 100% accuracy regardless. so unless if you hit Assault grenades then give a move order right after the red cross appears over their heads, you can't waste 50 munitions with volks.


150 munitions is generally too much to waste on the small chance of an accurate kamikaze attack. Definatly is in 1v1

50 munitions isn't too much to waste, recon run is exactly the same as strafing or bombing in its chances to get shot down.

[Ashmole3110]

Hmm i recall reading somewhere/seeing that pilots thought it to be dishonorable to fire upon downed pilots/infantry something like that?

Its against the Geneva convention I believe. Pilots aren't loaded up 'ready to fight' when they eject.Therefore,they don't pose a threat and are considered casualties.Paratroopers,on the other hand,are fair game because they're ready to fight when they hit the ground.

[avisotin]

I think he's talking about pilots shooting at infantry, like the strafing run. That sentence is a bit weird, though :\

[Gamesguy]

Pilots are officers and valuable, paratroopers are just grunts. Its usually that simple.