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View Full Version : [Balance]Commando Tree Revamp



Hirmetrium
2nd Sep 07, 6:50 AM
Heh, I posted this up on Gamereplays.org's beta forums, so I figuered I'd post it here too.

Behold, my rebalance of the commando tree! (now in full MSpaint glory!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Hirmetrium/commandoTreerebalance2.jpg

Those numbers are how many CP's each skill will cost.

First, the encryption tree.

Transmitters:-
Radio transmitters cost Manpower and reveal units in the fog in an area around the transmitter (similar to how PE tank awareness works, but for all units). That would make the skill useful.

Commandos:-
Second, Commandos need a HUGE rebalance. They are extremely expensive for what they do, and, unlike other reinforcements, do not gain anti tank skills. I suggest that PIAT commandos be removed from the game, and normal commandos are allowed to use PIATS after a 100 munitions upgrade (similar to recoiless).
Commandos should also cost 450 to be dropped, and produced for 450MP.
They are second skill similar to rangers - since I think their just as powerful.

Ultra Encryption:-
Finally, Ultraencryption, as well as revealing newly completed enemy units, vehicles and buildings, reveal troop movements - those white waypoint dots. This would make it an extremely desirable skill, worthy of top of the tree 3 points. However, the units would not be revealed, only the 'waypoints'. Not sure if thats possible, but it would make the skill excellent to counter say, a king tiger or jagdpanther.
If this is too powerful or more likely, improbable, I'd suggest allowing it to increase the range of the original radio transmitters to cover a significant portion of the map, allowing troops and their movement to be observed. (maybe cost 2 CP).

Heavy Support would focus on weapon teams and vehicles.

Glider HQ:-
First, the glider HQ is a first tier skill. It costs slightly less to call in, say 250MP. It can product both mortars and machine guns, allowing for a forward reinforcement point and weapon center - without PIATs on it, it can be this early game without a high risk to unbalancing commandos.
Other Suggestions:
Perhaps, once the commandos skill on the encryption side is gained, it could also produce normal commandos?

Tetrarch:-
These guys are amazing. I wouldn't change them at all. Perhaps, because of the decreased CP to reach them they might have to go up by 1CP to 3 total 4(previous total 5), but otherwise their great. I use them more than normal commandos, and try to keep the gliders alive so I can make more.

Decoy Artillery:-
Increase the power of the arty skill that comes with it and upping the CP cost to 3. Currently the 25pounder barrage is kinda underwhelming, and with a more powerful version enemies have more to fear.

This allows more tactical options - after 1 or 2 defenses and a few infantry skills or losses, you can start deploying weapon teams to help out.

And yeah, thats modified from the Gamereplays post I made.

kingofshao
2nd Sep 07, 7:07 AM
Other than the tetriarch being underpowered, I think the tree's fine as it is, the commando demo skill is murder on any enemy's.

Hirmetrium
2nd Sep 07, 7:41 AM
the commando demo skill is murder on any enemy's. Yeah, thats because you have been planting it on the AI who doesnt even move his tanks.

The commando tree is rubbish compared to the arty tree, and much less desirable than the american paratroopers.

The Glider HQ does exactly the same job as a weapon support center - except at the end of the game, where the squads provide very little bonus. I confess the other think I have built sofar is PIAT squads because their cheap and effective.

kingofshao
2nd Sep 07, 7:56 AM
I was actually playing against another human, you do know that they are stealthed right?

So please, try not to make up arguements by assumption.

Granted, I think that commando's should come at a lower cp, and from there on, so should the other drop ability's.

B4_life
2nd Sep 07, 8:17 AM
triangulation is fine. if you do it right, you can cover half the map.

Commandos might need a slight buff/price decrease.

ultra is a 1 CP ability, it should be relatively weak.

and the arty barrage is relatively weak because it is 80 munitions, and you can drop fake smoke all day long.

Altaire
2nd Sep 07, 11:10 AM
I would go with Hirmetriums tree. I find it bettah.

BlackLabel
2nd Sep 07, 11:19 AM
Not bad. I use my comandos to pick up shrecks and mg42...they just rip everything appart if equiped that way. I like Hirms idea better than the present one.

Chronos525
2nd Sep 07, 12:21 PM
triangulation is fine. if you do it right, you can cover half the map.

Commandos might need a slight buff/price decrease.

ultra is a 1 CP ability, it should be relatively weak.

and the arty barrage is relatively weak because it is 80 munitions, and you can drop fake smoke all day long.
Agreed completely. Triangulation is unique and should be kept the same. The arty is cheap. Commands need a price drop. But, I think that if you want ultra decryption to be at the top of the tree it's gonna need a buff.

Hirmetrium
2nd Sep 07, 12:45 PM
Triangluation is useless and costly (losing men to get it into position, building a bren that could die easily), and takes so much effort to setup it is not worth it. You can set up half the map if you BOTHER to charge around and risk losing men. I dont know how many comps you have stomped, but in a 1v1 of even a team situation, this is far too risky.

I've suggest commandos get PIATS because their not useful in comparison to other units. Glad to see you agree on that point, but funnily enough this is the one I felt I overdid it on.

Ultra is placed there and fixed like that because I can't think of a better place for it in this tree rebalance. Its a very powerful skill, but for a final skill its not that great, which is what makes me regret forcing it into that position, so it has to be buffed.

Artillery barrage is like that because for a final skill, compared to say V1 or Resource blitz, its not as good as it could be. Hell even the Allies howie skill is more powerful, and thats near the start of the tree.

The main focus of this tree shift was to bring the glider HQ down to earlier in the tree. I've heard people complain about the Tetrarch, so I decided moving it earlier would perhaps help it slightly(now I consider it again, it should be 2CP rather than 3).

I agree its not ideal, but the commando tree just lacks after the commandos and tank. By the time you have glider HQ you will have HAD to have made sappers with PIATS to counter the vehicles. Relic haven't given me much to work with. Nothing here is even close to the power of skills in other or even similar trees.

Hell even axis DEFENSIVE tree is better...

DatonKallandor
2nd Sep 07, 12:53 PM
Artillery barrage is like that because for a final skill, compared to say V1 or Resource blitz, its not as good as it could be. Hell even the Allies howie skill is more powerful, and thats near the start of the tree.

The artillery is excellent. You can drive your opponent crazy, in 1v1 that equals free short-term propaganda wars, and long term complacency. In 2v2's it ensures that some arty will hit.


Hell even axis DEFENSIVE tree is better...

Defensive is and always was good.

lordkosc
2nd Sep 07, 2:50 PM
It took me a minute to realize those were numbers , lol...

MercFHire
3rd Sep 07, 1:53 PM
Putting Ultra Encryption last would be pointless as by the time you get it chances are the enemy would already have all his buildings so it would ruin one of its effects.

Commissar[PT]
3rd Sep 07, 5:21 PM
I agree with this tree.

I find myself waiting to get 5 points to finnally call my Tetrarch and use it to have light vehicle counter weapon.

Commandos are far to expensive to call down. they dont have AT weapons, and they are NOT stealth... at least in my game they arent. they have a skill that puts them in stealth but its temporary. The explosive charge for the time it takes to place, should destroy a building imedialtly, wich it doesnt, (factories etc)...

When i unlock commandos glider, i NEVER use it, because of its cost, and just wait for the tank drop. I think the HQ also should be the first skill, because it servers only has a weak support building, and doesnt "bring any troops" so for a last skill, its not strong enough.