Limited ammo/shreks/etc

[TsaosChicken]

Not sure if this has ever been addressed but throwing it out there. Anybody ever thought of having limited ammo capacities for squads? make them have to return to HQ or a buildable recharge point would surely slow down the spamfantry attacks and would cause people to reconsider banzai rushes. Also would add another level to the game forcing players to go to other tiers rather than just pio/rangerspam. If you knew that at some point your troops would run out of ammo, not knowing if the OP had a couple of fresh squads or an MG just out of range you would think twice about going in hard and fast. It would make strategy much more important. Also help to balance out some of the overpowered squad issues. No more FJ squads decimating an entire army or pio's flaming you endlessly.

Just a thought... don't flame too hard...

[bottenbreker]

that might be a good idea but it would also slow down the game terribly. besides, it would not be fair if you play against the British cause they can just move their HQ everywhere :p

[whatsleft]

dont think it will work extremely well, since its a RTS afterall.

it will also bring in more complications, balance problems, bugs and all that, i think people are happy with the current setup now and wants balances problems to be fixed, not introducing new features.

[Scooter]

This is the kind of no-fun detail which is why we play strategy games that capture the feel of reality, rather than actual simulations.

[AverageJoe]

The last thing we want to do is retreat our Shrecked Grenadiers/Rangers because they caint shoot the last, finishing shot on a vehicle. Infinite ammo has always been a part of most if not all RTS games. Im sure if it was a good idea someone would have implemented it by now...(In any popular RTS, not just CoH)

[chuckles22]

I really dont understand why everyone is complaining about shrecks. They havn't changed much from version 1.71 which was damn near balanced. So why all the complaints now? Because uber PGs get them? Then nerf the PGs not the shreck. It all just sounds really lame to me. I love how people try to counter shrecks with armour it makes almost perfect sence. I mean attack a unit with AT weapons with a tank PERFECT ITS BRILLIANT. Its the equivalent of charging Calvary straight on into pikes uber smart....

this is just a post out of confusion... i dont understand why everyones complaining so hard about the shrecks... makes no sence

[bottenbreker]

I really dont understand why everyone is complaining about shrecks. They havn't changed much from version 1.71 which was damn near balanced. So why all the complaints now? Because uber PGs get them? Then nerf the PGs not the shreck. It all just sounds really lame to me. I love how people try to counter shrecks with armour it makes almost perfect sence. I mean attack a unit with AT weapons with a tank PERFECT ITS BRILLIANT. Its the equivalent of charging Calvary straight on into pikes uber smart....

haha, its so true :D you're completely right, shrecks arent overpowered. hell, even the PE schreck does less damage then the wehrmacht one, and EVERYBODY is complaining about the PE the irony :p

[tyler4171]

The only RTS game I ever played that involved limited ammo was Sudden Strike and that was even only for mobile rocket launchers

[TsaosChicken]

The post isn't about shreks. It's about limiting ammo to units. Just because someone mentions shreks doesn't mean that is the whole post. Read from the top

[MirrorImage]

This would be a good mod. But if they put this in the game through a patch it would change gameplay too much.

[Robert Frazer]

Well, there was at least one relatively obscure RTS, War Inc. (wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Inc.)), which while its chief distinguishing gimmick was to establish yourself in the mercenary trade where victories translated into cash to fuel research and your soldiers' pay and upkeep, also included the concept of limited ammunition for its units.

That feature constituted an option which could be toggled. I never turned it on... :-\

[Sle]

Codename: Panzers also had limited ammo. What a ball-achingly rubbish idea for COH though.

[say1988]

I really dont understand why everyone is complaining about shrecks. They havn't changed much from version 1.71 which was damn near balanced. So why all the complaints now? Because uber PGs get them? Then nerf the PGs not the shreck. It all just sounds really lame to me. I love how people try to counter shrecks with armour it makes almost perfect sence. I mean attack a unit with AT weapons with a tank PERFECT ITS BRILLIANT. Its the equivalent of charging Calvary straight on into pikes uber smart....

I believe it is less the schreks and PGs then simply the number available rather easily.

[Ace651]

We could, however, increase the cooldown time of the weapons if your troops don't move, so if they fire three shreks from one spot then the cooldown for the last is x3... this would encourage movement I suppose. A nearby halftrack or jeep could prevent this cooldown... or something.

I don't know, this post was kind of a brain fart, so don't take it seriously.
-cm

[Scooter]

No more mechanics DIScouraging use of cover please.

[Limming]

This whould just detart from the game play haveing to constely move back to an hq or ammo place would just get stupid and no one whould play it anymore. If anyone says something about releism heck with relesim its a game.

This whould not slow down the blob, run out of ammo fall back to last reload station go back and wipe out the troops still there bulid a reload station repeat all the way to hq.

[Scooter]

The closest thing the game has is the long cooldown for PE abilities without a munitions track or defensive operations and time in hq sector.

Is that really a fun mechanic?

[Lethal Dosage]

Blitzkrieg implemented ammo really well, most of your units carried plenty of ammo too, only nebelwerfer units and the such ran out of ammo quickly, but thats because they couldn't carry much.

I would really love to see a game that relied on both ammo supply and fuel. It could be implemented in not too much, giving both units and vehicles the appropriate amount of ammo that they would have realistically carried, and vehicles get the appropiate amount of fuel that they could carry, as well as 3 fuel comsumption rates, idling (stationary, not consuming much fuel at all), Cross counrty (low speed, fuel consumption varies per vehicle type), and Road (increased speed, and sightly reduced fuel consumption per type). This way, advances would be kept in check by both ammo of all units and fuel requirements of the vehicles and how fast you could resupply them with Ammo and Fuel trucks (models and everything is already ingame). Imagine a Wehr opponent rushes you with a KT and some armour supported by infantry, only for you to take out their infantry and their armour run out of fuel charging for your base. Considering that tanks and armoured vehicles did carry decent amoutns of fuel and large quantities of ammo, you would probably only have to resupply them once or twice at the most in any game, and it woudl add a new aspect to suppoprting your armour and infantry in the field. An it would definately keep in check most of the heavy call in units (which had high rates of fuel consumption), as well as AT guns and mobile arty which most only carried ~30 rounds for their main weapon.

[d4md]

Weapon limits would be cool for special weapons that dont have a muni cost to use.

U get 3-5 PzShks per upgrade. Free to use. Make it a toggle action button. When ur out u got to head back to a base, an OPed munition sector or your muni halftrack if PE to reload.

When I see infantry firing rockets at infantry I crack up. Its not like as a soldier your going to drop your primary weapon to carry a rocket launcher. I know it would totally change game dynamics because now u have a 2 Shreked Gren squad that will fire all its rifles instread of just 2 w/ 2 rockets. Same with rangers, etc.

[Ballist1x]

Close combat offers that level of detail, down to individual mens ammo. i.e if you have 2 panzershreks and you miss..your in trouble.

but on close combat you dont build mid map, and only take resources prior to the battle.

id liek to see a close combat style game using a newerr engine like the one that COH uses, but with a larger field of zoom.

[TsaosChicken]

I agree with you Lethal. It would definitely cause a player to rethink before the blob rush. More thought would go into supporting units, roles of units, etc. rather than mass attack from point to point. As you said the units are already in place. All you'd have to do is add a toggle for the engi/pio to build a muni resupply at a muni point. Not really that big of a deal as I see it. Then you'd have to develop a real strategy (did somebody say RTS game?) and make it work. As of now, you never see tanks ingame. The game doesn't last that long or the shreks/zooks remove the point of having them. Nothing like shreks and zooks killing inf better than rifles while we're at it... seems a little odd to me.

On another note (maybe for another thread) the command tree might be better designed with 3 tiers of 2 rather than the 2-3 now. Give a player many more options on how to start. Possibly get other units out faster while limiting others? Yea I know.... FLAME AWAY!

[formfactor]

Perhaps they could factor in upkeep for shrecks and vehicles? Like for every shreck you have on the field it could be -5 mun a minute or something like that. Same for vehicles and fuel. This won't hurt you too much in getting shrecks initially, but it will keep people from massing shrecks like crazy, defeating the purpose of most defenses and vehicles.

As it is now, shrecks are the gift that keeps giving. 75 mun is nothing for what you get in return. Trade 75-150 mun for killing a tank? You can bet people will consider that a great deal. Kill anything else and your investment pays off even more.

[KoRneYEZ]

I would really love to see a game that relied on both ammo supply and fuel. It could be implemented in not too much, giving both units and vehicles the appropriate amount of ammo that they would have realistically carried, and vehicles get the appropiate amount of fuel that they could carry, as well as 3 fuel comsumption rates, idling (stationary, not consuming much fuel at all), Cross counrty (low speed, fuel consumption varies per vehicle type), and Road (increased speed, and sightly reduced fuel consumption per type). This way, advances would be kept in check by both ammo of all units and fuel requirements of the vehicles and how fast you could resupply them with Ammo and Fuel trucks (models and everything is already ingame). Imagine a Wehr opponent rushes you with a KT and some armour supported by infantry, only for you to take out their infantry and their armour run out of fuel charging for your base. Considering that tanks and armoured vehicles did carry decent amoutns of fuel and large quantities of ammo, you would probably only have to resupply them once or twice at the most in any game, and it woudl add a new aspect to suppoprting your armour and infantry in the field. An it would definately keep in check most of the heavy call in units (which had high rates of fuel consumption), as well as AT guns and mobile arty which most only carried ~30 rounds for their main weapon.

an old game, and almost irrelevant, but panzer general had this. on maps where (major) victory was gained by gaining your objectives as quickly as possibly... fuel consumption and ammo were weighed pretty heavily. The German tanks in the latter part of the campaign, for instance, generally moved slower than everything else and had a low maximum reserve. Once it was out of fuel, you had to spend time to resupply (which would max out your supplies if the weather was clear). Bad weather made resupplying ammo and fuel more difficult by making only a percentage of your stocks refilled, and also making your vehicles consume more fuel for every move they made. Hills + snow = unlikely to move your armor there if you're pressed for time. There were bombers that specifically attacked a units supplies (logistics), and you often could pound a tough unit to pieces if you could find ways to take out its ammo/fuel stocks. It was turn based, but, yeah... they were cool ideas for that particular game.